Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Ashiana Housing Limited Q4 FY24 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vinay Sharda from EY LLP. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thanks, Seema. Welcome, everyone, and thanks for joining this Q4 FY 2024 earnings call for Ashiana Housing Limited. The results and the investor presentation have been mailed to you, and it is also available on the stock exchange. In case you have not received the same, please write to us, and we'll be happy to send it over to you. To take us through the results for this quarter and answer your questions, we have today with us Mr. Varun Gupta, Full-time Director, and Mr. Vikas Dugar, CFO. We'll be starting the call with a brief overview of the company's performance of this quarter, and then we'll follow it up with Q&A session.
I would like to remind you that everything said on this call that reflects any outlook for the future, which may be construed as a forward-looking statement, must be viewed in conjunction with uncertainties and risks that they face. These uncertainties and risks are included, but not limited to, what we have mentioned in the prospectus filed with SEBI and subsequent annual reports, which you'll find on our website. With that said, I'll now hand over the call to Mr. Vikas Dugar. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, Vinay. Good afternoon, everyone. Hope all of you and your families are keeping healthy. I welcome you to discuss the performance of the fourth quarter and the year ended March 2024 for Ashiana Housing. Thank you for joining us today. On operations, this year saw the launch of 10 projects, 4 greenfield projects, and 6 new phases of existing projects to the tune of 23.19 lakh sq ft. Ashiana Amara, the kid-centric project in Gurugram, which was launched in October 2022 last year, launched its two new phases in April 2023 and March 2024 respectively. Both of them were fully booked on launch. A senior living project was launched in Talegaon, Pune, by the name Ashiana Amod in July 2023, and another senior living project was launched in Chennai, named Ashiana Vatsalya in March 2024.
Two new projects launched in Jaipur, Ashiana Nitara and ONE44, both in premium housing segment. Other projects where new phases were launched included Phase Two of Ashiana Prakriti, Jamshedpur; Phase Five of Ashiana Shubham, Chennai; Phase Five of Ashiana Tarang, Bhiwadi; and Phase Two of Ashiana Malhar, Pune. We achieved a sales value of INR 1,798.22 crores for the financial year 2023-24, which is highest ever. The same was INR 1,313.43 crores in FY 2023. Sales price improved to INR 6,811 for the year on a per sq ft basis, vis-à-vis INR 5,080 per sq ft in the previous year, an increase of 34% on a year-on-year basis.
This was driven by increasing prices across projects and also changing mix towards higher priced projects. In the last quarter, 10.6 lakh sq ft of area were booked compared to 3.35 lakh sq ft in Q3 FY 2024. In Q4, bookings were driven by Ashiana Amara Phase 3, ONE44 in Jaipur, and Vatsalya in Chennai. We handed over 24.78 lakh sq ft in FY 2024, vis-a-vis 10.51 lakh sq ft in FY 2023. Total revenue more than doubled to INR 966.52 crores in FY 2024 versus INR 425.19 crore in FY 2023 due to higher deliveries and also due to mix towards higher price projects.
Total comprehensive income, that is TCI, also recorded at INR 84.24 crore in FY 2024 versus INR 28.78 crore in FY 2023. Handovers during the year included Jaipur Ashiana Daksh, Phase 2 and 3; Ashiana Amantran, Phase 1 and 2; and Ashiana Umang, Phase 5, all in Jaipur. Phase 3 of Ashiana Tarang and Ashiana Nirmay Phase 4 in Bhiwadi, Ashiana Aditya Phase 1 and 2 in Jamshedpur, and Ashiana Dwarka Phase 4 in Jodhpur. For the last quarter, the total revenue reported was INR 296.96 crore, vis-a-vis INR 189.25 crore in the previous quarter. TCI declined to INR 17.45 crore, vis-a-vis INR 28.08 crore in the previous quarter. During the year, we recorded pre-tax operating cash flows of INR 304.46 crore, which was the highest ever.
Equivalent area constructed was 20.68 lakh sq ft in FY 2024, vis-a-vis 16.73 lakh sq ft in FY 2023. Quarterly equivalent area constructed was at 6.97 lakh sq ft versus 4.77 lakh sq ft in the previous quarter, and the same was 5.08 lakh sq ft in Q4 FY 2023. In FY 2024, we successfully completed our maiden buyback of INR 55 crores. On this note, I would like to conclude my remarks. We will now be happy to discuss any questions or suggestions that you may have. Vinay?
Yes, sir.
Yeah. Can we take up the questions, please?
We will now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We take our first question from the line of Lavanya Sharma, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Hello.
Hi, Lavanya.
Yeah. Hi. Hi, everybody. First of all, congratulations on the great numbers. Everything looks really good and positive. I have two questions. Can you just shed some light on the decreased margin? That is one. And the second thing is, last year you performed buyback, and this year you've announced dividend. So why are you not going for buyback option again? Thank you.
So Lavanya, two things. The buyback options are expensive to execute if an amount is small, because there are a lot of fixed costs involved in the buyback. So from a distribution perspective, buybacks make sense when we are willing to distribute a larger amount of cash. At this point of time, we would like to have some more cash with the company as we're looking at few more acquisitions going forward, and we would like to have that flexibility so the amount of dividend which our dividend was given at that quantum end mark. Buybacks will not happen every year. We hope that we do buybacks every three to five years, depending on the cash flow availability of the company. And now the first question of margins.
This is with respect to the... I'm getting the quarterly margins and not the annual margins, because annual margins, as compared to last year are, very similar. So, in terms of, or actually better. In terms of quarterly margins, our margins varies depending on which project is, getting delivered. So let's say in Q3, we had very healthy margins because we had the delivery of Ashiana Nirmay senior living project in Bhiwadi, which has enjoyed good margins, historical land costs, premium pricing for senior, senior living. As compared to, this, this year's deliveries, we had this quarter, a large quantum of delivery came from Ashiana Aditya in Jamshedpur and, a little bit from, Ashiana Dwarka in, Jodhpur, if I'm correct. Ashiana Aditya and Ashiana Amantran.
All three of them are joint venture projects, so they've done well on return on capital employed. But our margins are relatively less there because, you know, the land cost are higher, and also in Aditya and Amantran, we had cost overruns a little bit more than expected. So these things are; there will be variation in quarter-on-quarter margins in our company, because our different projects enjoy different margins. So I would urge to look at annual margins rather than quarterly numbers for us. They will be very non-representative as a company. Thank you.
Okay, thank you. Thank you so much.
Thank you, Lavanya.
Thank you. Before we take the next question, a reminder to all the participants. If you wish to join the question queue, you may press star and one on your touchtone telephone. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question, you may press star and one on your touchtone telephone. The next question is from the line of Rohit from iThought PMS. Please go ahead, sir.
Hello?
Can I-
Am I audible?
Hi, Rohit. You are audible.
Hi, welcome. Hi, everybody. So I have three questions. So one is, if I go to your, slide number 17, you've given the year-wise delivery for FY 25, 26 and 27. So I just want to understand, I mean, you talked in the past that some of the older products, the margins are not that great. So can you talk about in these three years, how the margins would shape up on some of these products are new as well? So how do you see, the margins for the, for the deliveries that are there for the next two years, as you, as you see right now? I mean, obviously, things can change, but...
So we see margin expansion. I don't, I don't think we have exact numbers. We are gonna, we plot them, as we go forward. But, like last year, you know, we have been on PAT margin has been, at about 9% for last year, if I'm correct. And we expect that margin to improve, in the next year and in the year after that. I think, as the cycle keeps going, we'll probably get to, after-tax profit margins and the TCI margins are closer to 17%-18%, gradually, as we go ahead. So, this year's margin would be better than FY 2024. FY 2026 margin should be better than FY 2027, 2025, and 2027 should be better than 2026.
This, most of this is happening for two reasons, that gross profit margins are expanding. Our revenues in let's say FY 2027 are indirect costs as a percentage of revenues in 2027 should be lower than, should be lower than, what it is in 2024. In some years, like in 2025, probably our indirect expenses as a percentage might be a little higher than 2024, because the revenue mix will not change that much. But I see overall margin expansion to happen as we go forward.
Got it. That's very helpful, Varun. So the other question was, in terms of our, the new land purchases, and we've been talking about looking at other geographies also, and also within the same geography, I think we bought something in Jaipur 2, couple of quarters back, or I think 3 quarters back, if my memory serves right. So, how do you see that... Because now, as I see, based on your presentation, we have about 6 lakh sq ft, sorry, 6 lakh sq ft, so about 18 lakh sq ft is the amount left for us, both with and including the Milakpur land and from the table that you mentioned.
So as we sort of grow and as the cycling sort of continues, in our favor, so how are you thinking, and any, any sort of, broad target or thought process you can share?
So, I think, Rohit, we don't have a broad target as to where we, what we will do. Exactly, what I think, we will be is overall try to focus on returns on capital more and growth less. So we might have years that might be cyclically off, and I think we as a management team have decided that we should be comfortable with those and take calculated risks where we see opportunities. At this moment of time, my view is that overall larger opportunities will come in the senior living space. It's a space where I see expansion. We have some term sheets under negotiation, and we hope to close some things. We are looking for more parcels as well elsewhere.
But I think overall, I think senior living will play a larger mix as we go forward because we see that business, relatively less competitive. So we enjoy, continue to enjoy some, differentiation and, therefore, some, better margins and returns, because we can make some off-location lands work, in senior living. Outside of that, we will be looking at, how do we just keep things chugging along and wait for opportunities we, till we do something bigger. We have, given the current kind of price and the kind of pricing we see, we seem to, you know, we seem... We, we continue to enjoy very good cash flows and profits from the existing stock, more than we thought, we would.
We would like to enjoy the upcycle like that and make sure that we have our heads on focus on returns on capitals more and be patient if we have to be.
Sure. So you talked about 15% ROE as a target. So, probably this year you'll hit that number? I mean, we are already, I think, in early double digit there. So-
So may not be this year, and I think it's because these deliveries get a little lumpy, so reported ROEs are becoming a little bit challenging. Like, 26, we will definitely hit the 15% over ROEs if things go as per plan, as per deliveries. But internally, we have created metrics more around economic ROE. This year we crossed the 15% threshold in the company from an economic ROE perspective in FY 2024. And it's a 12- to 24-month lag. So if not this year, then next year we should hit it. But deliveries can be very lumpy, and therefore we tend to keep a track on economic ROE internally better. And we are well beyond 15% now in terms of ROE.
It will reflect in the numbers sooner than later in the reported ROE.
Last question, in terms of pre-sales for FY25, anything you can share? What are you kind of thinking?
Say that again, please.
So I was just asking for pre-sales for FY 2025. Anything that you can share or any thoughts? Last year was close to 1,800, yeah.
So this year, we have a target of INR 2,000 crores internally to get to. Again, it assumes that the market will remain buoyant the way it is, and we'll get to launch the phases as scheduled. It will continue to be heavily dependent on Gurugram, as it contributes a large part of our expected sales value right now.
Got it. Can I ask one more question?
Yes. Yes, go ahead, please.
So, I think in the last two interactions, you talked about Bangalore as well. So any update or anything that I think also we had posted something on LinkedIn about the same. So I just wanted to ask if you have any update or if you'd like to share.
We have two term sheets in Bangalore for senior living, and we are hoping to close the transactions there on revenue share. But these things are, you know, 50% of the deals slip somewhere or the other during diligence or something or the other. I'm hopeful that we'll close, but deals can slip through the cracks. But we are excited about doing some senior living in Bangalore.
Got it. Thank you. Thank you very much. All the very best for this year.
Thank you.
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants, anyone who wishes to ask a question, may press star and one on the touchtone telephone. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to join the question queue, you may press star and one on your touchtone telephone. Reminding all the participants, anyone who wishes to ask a question, may press star and one on the touchtone telephone. Ladies and gentlemen, this is a reminder to all the participants. If you wish to ask a question, you may press star and one on your phone. Thank you. We'll take the next question from the line of Mr. Kunal. Please go ahead.
Hi, I hope I'm audible.
Yes, sir, you are. Please go ahead, sir.
Hi. First of all, congratulations on your Q4 2024 results. My question is specifically around Gurugram. So as you can see that your projects are commanding a significant premium with Gurugram geography. So after the Ashiana Amara launch for phases 4 and 5, are there any specific plans to acquire land or start off any new projects in the coming financial year?
We have Ashiana Amara phase 4 and 5 to launch. We are hoping to launch it in this financial year, both those phases. We have Ashiana, another project in sector 80 in Gurugram, which is not too far away from Ashiana Amara. We are hoping that we can launch that in the fourth quarter of this year, and if not fourth quarter of this year, then the first quarter of the next year. So yeah, that we are... So those, that project is under approval, so we have gone ahead and applied for EC. We are putting the rest of the approval in as well. So I, I hope to launch that in this financial year.
Sure. Sure. That helps. Thank you.
Thank you, Kunal.
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants, if you wish to ask a question, you may press star and one on your touchtone telephone. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question, you may press star and one. We'll take the next question from the line of Rohan from Sycamore Advisors. Please go ahead, sir.
Hi. Am I audible?
Yes, sir, you are. Please go ahead.
Hi. Hi, you are audible. Yes.
Yeah. Congrats on a good financial year results. Just wanted to ask about an update on the IFC project. You know, where is that at right now? And like, what can we expect going forward?
So on IFC, we have three projects on the first platform, which is Ashiana Shubham, which is complete, in terms of construction, and we have a few collections still left on the back end from a few customers and a, and a few, you know, last, expenses that have to be done, which, have to be, done. But more or less, it's actually complete. A little bit of, little bit of IFC, capital is still left to be paid out. Other than that, there are two projects that we have invested in, Ashiana Amara and Ashiana Vatsalya. Both projects are launched under construction and, and different phases, which are updated in the investor updates for each projects in terms of, how much we sold, how much we've collected, how much area we've constructed.
So you can look at those, from the investor update specifically. On platform two, we are yet to deploy any capital. We are actively engaging with them and a few projects to see where we can deploy for platform two, projects where we can deploy.
Okay, sure. What is the land acquisition pipeline like? I think you spoke about Bangalore, but last quarter, you also spoke about looking at some land for a senior living project closer to Mumbai. So what's happening on that front?
Okay. We are looking in Pune. We had a term sheet executed there. Unfortunately, that term sheet slipped through. As I said, you know, these term sheets have a 50% failure rate. Unfortunately, the one near Mumbai slipped. We have more projects that we are providing offers on. I'm hoping that something will succeed there. We are excited about Pune after the success that we have achieved in Ashiana Amod. We have a term sheet executed for a land in Jamshedpur as well, and we are actively quoting in Jaipur and Bhiwadi at the moment for both projects.
Okay, sure. Thanks a lot. That's all for me, and best of luck for the coming year.
Thank you so much.
Thank you. We request all the participants to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to join the question queue, you may press star and one on your touchtone telephone. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on your touchtone telephone. We take the next question from the line of Himanshu Tuggal from Safeg ain Financial Advisors. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, everybody. Great quarter. Congratulations on that. One, I just had one query on the pace of construction going ahead. I think this quarter really been phenomenal. You are touching almost 7 lakh sq ft of equivalent area. Now that, you know, the land bank acquisition has kind of slowed down, do you think you'll be able to maintain the same pace for the next 4, 5 quarters? Or there is going to be some, you know, slowdown, maybe go back to that 4-5 till you once again come back to the land bank?
Ladies and gentlemen, please stay connected. The line for the management has got disconnected. We'll reconnect. Please stay- Thank you for patiently holding. Ladies and gentlemen, we have the line for the management reconnected. Himanshu, sir, I request you to please go ahead with your question.
Yeah. Hi, I'm audible?
Yes, sir.
Yes.
Yeah. So I just wanted to, you know, understand about the pace of construction going ahead. This quarter was, like, phenomenal. I think it was almost 700,000 sq ft. Now that, you know, the pace of acquisition of the land bank has kind of slowed down, do you see the pace of construction also coming down in FY 25? Or you think that there are, you know, probably the pipeline should convert, and you are optimistic of maintaining the same pace of 700,000 sq ft or, you know, maybe something above 600,000 sq ft?
Quarterly numbers will vary for us, Himanshu. Quarterly numbers vary a lot for a year. Like in the first quarter, we have sub, sub NGT bans in the NCR area, so construction slows down. In April, May, June, because of election, workers have gone back. Because of Eid and Holi, workers have gone back. That brings the quarter, first quarter down a little bit. Quarterly variations, so I would not take quarterly run rates because of the variations that we have. We do expect to do 25-26 lakh sq ft of construction this year. I don't see the pace slowing down, because we will continue to launch projects this year, and I think we have still headroom.
So, like, out of 62 lakh sq ft launch, we have done 28 lakh sq ft of construction. So we have 34 lakh sq ft of construction to do within the launched features, and we have about 80, 90 lakh sq ft to launch. About 90 lakh sq ft to launch, excluding Milakpur, between our future phases and land bank. And as and when we'll add that, that will also come in. So I don't see a declining volume as of now, at least for the next 12, maybe 24 months. And maybe after 24 months, it might have a different scenario.
Got it. Got it. Thanks for that. I guess one last question from me. Around the Chennai Vatsalya project, so where you have the 50% of the profit. Now, in this, how do you maintain your ROE? Like, give, give a ballpark, like, what's the typical model here?
Yes, so we have taken up, you know, a 50/50 partnership with our local partners there in Arihant Group. They have a 50% stake, we have a 50% stake. We share profit 50/50. We bought the land at cost together. We charge a fee that covers our administrative costs. So the ROE of the project is effectively our ROE on that project, ROC on the project. And we see the project generating the required return, yeah. So it functions like as if any other outright project that we would have acquired where we saw the returns. So it's basically dependent on whether we are able to get the land value at a price where returns make sense.
Got it. Any comments around the cost of construction? Because the kind of bump this quarter was pretty high. So, I understand the seasonality aspect you are explaining, but, is there some kind of increase in the cost of construction, the construction?
So our cost of construction will go up for two reasons. One, there is inflation, but inflation is not in construction is not like more than regular inflation in the economy right now. We had that a couple of years ago. Yeah, there is, you know, there will be a few percentage points here or there, generally, and it's not like crazy shift. But our projects, you know, as and when we have moved into higher priced projects, we have also moved into higher cost of construction projects. You know, we are making basements, we are going taller, we are using Mivan , we have upgraded specs, we are doing better common areas. All of that increase cost of construction. So cost of construction will increase from that perspective.
As a percentage of sales price, as I said, we are going to see gross profit margin expansion. I see as a percentage of sales price, construction costs to come down.
Okay, got it. Yeah, that's it from me. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Before we take the next question, a reminder to all the participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. The next question is from the line of Ankit Shah from White Equity Investment Advisors. Please go ahead, sir.
Thanks for taking my question. While bidding for land parcels, what gross profit margins are we factoring in, based on the current sale prices?
So based on current sale prices, current cost of construction, we typically look for about 27%-30% on JV projects. And if outright projects are there, there are commensurate increase in the GP margin to cover the cost of financing in an outright structure.
Got it. Okay. Second is, what would be, our expected pre-sales mix for FY 25?
We are looking at doing about INR 2,000 crores of pre-sales in FY 2025. Mix, what do you mean by mix?
I mean, split between, let's say, Gurugram, Jaipur, and others.
At that number, I don't have, we make individual project targets in some, you know, some years, some places have a little bit more, some places a little bit less. But I said, we expect Gurugram to contribute the heavy shares, this year as well, like last year it did. So that, that will continue. But as I articulated earlier, from a longer term perspective and further capital allocation, we believe senior living is an important space where we will continue to allocate capital to, and where we see, from a long-term perspective, larger revenue and profit contributions, coming in.
Got it. Got it. One is, see, we are guiding for a pre-sales of INR 2,000 crore for F 25. Amara, both stages we are building in into F 25, right? Hello? Hello? Hello? Hello.
Mr. Shah, could you please repeat your question, sir?
Yes. So, we have given pre-sales guidance of INR 2,000 crore for FY 25. Now, does this include both phases of Ashiana Amara, phase 4 and phase 5 launch?
Yes, it includes launch of the both phase 4 and 5 of Ashiana Amara.
Yeah. So, sales of Ashiana Amara, the pre-sales number looks, I mean, pretty conservative. Can you kind of throw some light on that?
So that's a different perspective. They are conservative by temperament, I guess you can say. But you know, we take a conservative view of the market, as of now. That's it.
Hmm. Okay, got it. Next one was, are we facing any cost overruns in any of our important projects as of now? I mean, noticeable cost overruns?
No, we don't have noticeable cost overruns in any of the projects. As I said, we expect margins to improve going forward.
Right. And the last one from my side, in case of Ashiana Amara, we have IFC as a financial partner. So there, can you share with us as to, you know, how the financials will play out between us and IFC? I mean, what could be the payout that we need to make to IFC in that project?
Sorry to interrupt you, sir. The line for the management has got disconnected. Please allow me a moment while I re-
Sure.
Ladies and gentlemen, the line for the management is reconnected. Ankit, sir, please go ahead with your questions.
Yes. So, in case of Ashiana Amara, we have IFC as a financial partner. So can you share with us as to, you know, how the financials will play out between us and IFC? I mean, what kind of a payout do we have to make to IFC in, for this particular project? If you can share with us.
IFC, so I would urge you to read the debenture. You can go through the exact debenture to understand the exact financial structure. It's a little bit more complex just to explain on the call. But overall, effectively, they have a share, a percentage share of the cash flows of the project. Their percentage share in the cash flows of the project would be a little bit more than 30% of the net cash flows of the project. The net cash flows that come into the project will be more than a little bit more than 30% of the project, because until a certain figure, they have a higher share and then it becomes 30. And so overall, payouts will be in that ratio. They are...
Yeah, so that's the financial structure. You can look at the debentures. So depending on how well the project does, the payouts to them move in tandem. So if the project does better, the absolute payouts to them improve. If the project does worse, the absolute payouts to them reduce.
Got it. Got it. That's it from my side. Thank you so much.
Thank you!
Thank you, sir. A reminder to the participants, if you wish to ask a question, you may press star and one on your phone. The next question is from the line of Anuj Sharma from M3 Investments. Please go ahead, sir.
Yeah, thank you. My question is on senior living. So, are we, are we able to find or are we searching for newer locations for senior living from more than the existing locations? I mean, cities rather than locations. Yeah.
Okay. So, yes, and no, I would just I'll give a little bit more nuanced answer to this. So one new city in Bangalore, we are evaluating, where we have no presence. Okay? And then we are evaluating, so, additional options to the projects we have in NCR and in the Bombay, Pune region. So in the Bombay, Pune region, we have Ashiana Amod at Talegaon, which services both Bombay and Pune, but it's closer to Pune, and we're looking at something closer to Mumbai. Similarly, we have Bhiwadi, which services NCR. It's on the western side of NCR and a little further away. We are looking for more proximate lands to the center of the city in the NCR. So we're evaluating Greater Noida, we are evaluating Gurgaon.
So yeah, they are, they are different from where we are, but they're servicing the same larger macro market, if that's the way. So we are looking at differentiated micro markets in the larger macro market of Mumbai, Pune and in NCR, and then have term sheet signed for Bangalore for new senior living projects.
Okay. Okay. And the second question is in terms of maturity of this concept. You know, if you, if you were to just think as to how, where do you think the maturity is, and when can you really see a J-curve in this segment, based on your experience till now, in the senior living again?
Okay. Yeah, it's very difficult to predict the J-curve, right? If I could predict the J-curve, then I wish I could do that. Unfortunately, I have no capability of predicting when the J-curve will happen. That said, I think we're still in the overall in still early stages in maturity, that we have not hit the J-curve yet. We have not gotten into any sort of maturity in the market. My overall view is that, though, we will, we are, we're going to allocate a higher proportion of our capital to senior living going forward. We already have a higher proportion of capital allocated to senior living today than what we had five years ago, and hopefully in two, three years, that proportion will go up even more, as budget.
I expect to see things sooner rather than later, but it's very difficult to say exactly when.
No, sure, I appreciate that. Yeah. But just maybe. All right. All right. Then maybe just the last related point. So let's suppose 3-5 years out, in terms of volumes, where could the senior living lie in our portfolio?
Right now, we are looking at, in from a medium-term view, if we can get to about 900-1,000 units a year, from about 350-400 units a year today, last year. So in percentages, as we allocate, we, you know, can we go about 2-2.5x in the next 3-4 years? I think that's the basic expectations on unit terms. So price expansion should be over and above this. So hopefully... Can we make the business 3x in the next 4-5 years?
All right. That's helpful. Thank you, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Kunal, an individual investor. Please go ahead, sir.
Hi, Arun.
Hi, Kunal.
My specific question is from like related to Ashiana Amara. So there is 9.1 million sq ft of sellable area still remaining there, phase four and five. And based on the current prevailing rates for Ashiana phase three and on my analysis and discussions with the locals in Gurugram, and this should alone fetch you around, according to my calculation, INR 1,500 crore for this coming financial year. With that, I think there's going to be INR 500 crore, which is remaining in the INR 2,000 crore projection, which you gave. So I mean, why are we like, is the INR 500 crore specifically coming from senior living? If yes, then what makes you so bullish on senior living market as opposed to, let's suppose, kid-centric homes? If you could just very quickly give us some pointers there.
So two things, Kunal. Amara, you expected that we'll sell out at launch in phase 4 and 5. We have done that in 1, 2, 3, but what is history and what is future can be very different. So in our projections, we have not estimated that we will get INR 1,500 crore from Amara. That's, that's first. So and the sale price also, we have INR 9.2 lakh twenty thousand sq ft. We sold phase 3 at INR 11,600-something sq ft. So even if we sell at that price point, the whole thing, it will be INR 1,000 crore. I'm guessing you are expecting more like 15,000-16,000 rupees a sq ft, and we are expecting to sell the whole thing. If we do that, we will definitely have a higher number than INR 2,000 crore.
Definitely, we are not looking at an overall INR 500 crore number outside of Gurgaon. That's the view on that. Therefore, I don't know the exact numbers of Amara, but they are not a factor in that kind of number from there yet, and the thing is, you know, there are projects which underperform, there are projects overperform during the year, and those things will happen. So, you know, we build up overall buffer into the project. So Amara might not do well, something else may not do so well, we might have a launch delay. We don't know what else can go wrong. In my experience in life, there has been only one law that is always applied, and that's been Murphy's Law.
You know, we are conservative in that sense.
Sure. Sure, thank you. Just one follow-up question regarding senior living. So, there are a lot of companies which are now focusing on senior living projects, which will be there in the city as opposed to, let's suppose, on the outskirts. So did your company specifically have an approach that, their projects are going to be on the outskirts, maybe for the cheaper land or the maybe greater ROIs as well? Or are you also planning to maybe, evaluate in-city, projects for senior living, where possibly you could get a higher premiums as opposed to outskirts, maybe play in the, premium segment there? So any plans there?
So we are looking to do more premium senior living. If you look at our senior living projects, they are a lot more premium today than they were a few years ago. But we have a clear view that we have to do larger scale projects in senior living to create value. In terms of acreage, so we can leave open areas and amenities and deliver a different kind of a lifestyle. With that in mind, we are agnostic to locations, as long as we think we can create value in that location. So, we are not ruling out anything, but we have a particular lens that we apply to evaluating projects, and that lens remains effectively the same.
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Yeah. So, I'll just continue with my question. I think I'll just throw some more light so that there's better context. I was saying that when you say that developing projects, which are near, that if it's possible to have maybe take a hybrid approach where you have, maybe normal projects and then two or three tower dedicated to senior living. So is Ashiana Amara strategy... sorry, Ashiana strategy only going to be specifically about, in-home?
We don't think hybrid projects are the way to go. We don't think they create the value that a senior living consumer wants. Again, these are different opinions, and different people can have different strategies. We want to do a full senior living projects wherever we want to go. Therefore, our commitment to the sector is very different than just doing a two towers of senior living in a particular project. So we, we are not going to mix the two.
Understood. Understood. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question, you may press star and one on your touchtone telephone. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question, you may press star and one on your touchtone telephone. As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
We would like to thank all of you for being on this call and being so patient with all the questions and answers. If you were unable to take any questions, please feel free to write to us directly or reach out to us directly, and with that, we'd like to conclude the call. A lot of the material we have spoken about is posted on our website, and you can also email your queries for any further clarification. Thank you once again for taking the time out to join us on this call.
Thank you.
Thank you, everyone.
Thank you, sir. On behalf of Ashiana Housing, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.