Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Camlin Fine Sciences Limited Q3 and nine months FY2024 earnings conference call. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions, and expectations of the company as on the date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of the future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero on your touch-tone telephone. If you wish to, please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ashish Dandekar, Chairman and Managing Director. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to our quarterly earnings call. As is our usual procedure, our CFO, Santosh Parab, will give you a brief of the quarter, following which we will be open to answering your questions. So I hand over now to Santosh.
Thanks, Ashish. Good afternoon, and thank you for joining us today. As you are aware, today's call is being recorded, and it will be accessible for replay on our website in due course. Diving down to the results and the scenario in this quarter, as you are aware, the global economic condition has been taking more than expected period to come back to normalcy, and overall growth rates across the economies have increased, but those rates remain quite tepid. Generally, the macroeconomic conditions remain uncertain and hence extremely challenging. We are witnessing weak demand across most markets. The situation is further accentuated by weak Chinese economy and its weaker local consumption. The Chinese action of predatory pricing in our markets continues, and it puts pressure on pricing and consequently the margins.
Despite all these difficulties, where most of these factors were not within our control, we were able to post a stable operating revenue of INR 385 crores, which is 4.9% lower than the sequential quarter and only 0.5% lower than the corresponding quarter. There was significant decline in volumes of performance chemicals, primarily due to the temporary shutdown of our diphenol manufacturing capacity in CFS Europe. This dip was largely offset by robust growth in products in shelf-life solutions, including blends. Revenue from blends remained at almost same level as sequential quarter, which is quite commendable considering the festival holidays in American and European continents in the second fortnight of December. CFS North America and CFS Brazil, which predominantly sell blends, have been able to carry the momentum with an operating revenue of INR 65.6 crores and INR 33.7 crores, respectively, during this quarter.
Coming down to our aroma business, we have just completed the campaign of manufacturing methyl vanillin at our Dahej plant and are in the process of shifting to methyl vanillin now. This shift generally takes 3-4 weeks. The revenue from aroma during the quarter was INR 6.34 crores, which will grow in the subsequent quarter with the liquidation of inventory which we are carrying. We are bracing for the annual contracts with large flavor companies as well as fragrance companies, which are delayed this year due to cautionary wait-and-watch strategy by all these large consumers. Customers seem to be desisting from entering long contracts owing to the large volatility and uncertainty in the markets. However, we try to provide products of optimum quality to these customers, and that endeavor continues with approvals from almost all prospective customers.
As mentioned in our earlier call, we are exploring avenues at our facility situated in CFS Europe for an alternative use by manufacturing another HQ downstream product by a different chemical chemistry. We will be finalizing the course of action before the end of March 2024. Obviously, we will keep you apprised on this development. Dahej plant in Dahej continued at an optimum capacity utilization and has been supporting the downstream products and its sale. Gross margins remain stable despite sale price headwinds. Operating expenses remain under control despite one-time costs like reversal of power subsidy of INR 6.36 crore in CFS Europe, as well as devaluation of Argentine Peso in our Argentine subsidiary for INR 11.85 crores. Of course, these two items have an adverse impact on the profit after tax for the quarter.
comforting aspect has been the result and EBITDA margin, which stood at 8.4% vis-à-vis 7.8% in sequential quarter. In the given circumstances, this is quite a good thing. I'll come to the Chinese subsidiary, which remains closed. We are working on the procedure for change of use of the plant to a new aromatic product, Heliotropin, which is a catechol downstream. However, we are closely watching the current scenario in China and would time the transition based on it. However, at present, we contemplate restart of this plant in the second half of the next financial year. Just giving you some understanding on the future scenario as we look at the business, we would reiterate that the business fundamentals remain solid and our resilience is also more straightforward.
We would like to focus on the levers which are within our control by striving to protect the margins, recalibrate our fixed costs, and optimize the product mix. We are hopeful that the macroeconomic indicators will ease out in the very near future, and it is pertinent to remain relevant and be ready for the growth thereafter. I will now transit back to the conductor to open the floor for questions. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Participants present on the audio bridge who wish to ask questions may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. A reminder, you may press star and one to ask questions and star and two to remove yourself from the question queue. We have our first question from the line of Mr. Ajit from Mirza Enterprises. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Am I audible, sir?
Yes, you are.
Yeah. So good evening, sir, and thanks for the opportunity. Sir, my first question is on Lockheed Martin. So could you please clarify on—I mean, give some clarity on Lockheed Martin. What is the current order book and what is the status in all? Yeah.
Yeah. So we continue the supplies for the first order that has been placed with us and which will be completed by June. And there are some further hello?
I couldn't get, sir. I missed your line.
No, I said our first order that we have to fulfill will be fulfilled by end of March 2024, which is for their first battery that they have set up.
Okay. And what is the order book I mean, current order book other than this? I mean, if you can quantify order amount of this particular?
No, so right now, this is the order book for Lockheed. We expect to further after the supply of this material, the next step would be then to look at a higher capacity to be built. So that's a conversation which is ongoing. I think we'll have more clarity on that in the next quarter.
Okay. Sir, could you please talk about Vanillin scale-up production scale-up, I mean?
Yeah. So the production scale-up, we have been able to achieve. The only thing is right now, the market conditions are yet not very conducive because the Chinese producers are continuing to dump material across the world. And we've done our, as Santosh mentioned, we've done our ethyl vanillin run, and now we're going back to vanillin and we'll start producing. But we are calibrating the production based on market optics.
Okay. For this conversion from ethyl to methyl, how many days the plant will be closed and how much that will impact on our maybe on our top line or?
The top line may not get impacted because, like I said, the market conditions are not so conducive to really push for very large production. But the turnaround time is about 4-6 weeks.
Okay. 4-6. Just last question, sir. How much inventory we are holding of the vanillin currently, and what will be revenue from vanillin in FY25 and this quarter? I mean, coming quarter.
So, coming quarter, difficult to give you a number right off the bat, but we are holding a total quantities are roughly about—I mean, in value, it's about INR 70 crore.
Okay. Understood. And can we expect vanillin production to go up and scale up to optimum level in FY25, and what percentage of utilization are you expecting, sir? That's it from my side. Thank you so much.
Yeah. So in FY25, our expectation is about 40%-50%. We should be able to fill that much up from a market perspective. But again, depends on the market conditions. We are seeing that the destocking is almost complete. So if the market conditions improve, we can certainly scale up further.
Okay, sir. Thank you so much and all the best. Thank you so much, Ajit.
Thank you.
Thank you, sir. A reminder to all participants, you may press star and one to ask questions. We have our next question from the line of Rehan from Equitree Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. Am I audible?
Yes, sir. You're audible.
Thanks for taking my question. Regarding the CFS Europe plant, as per the last phone call, you had mentioned that we would be doing the Anisole we would try to do the Anisole process for MEHQ from the CFS Europe. In an unfortunate situation where we're not able to do the same or any other reason that we cannot proceed with Anisole over there, what would be the future course of action for the plant?
The future course of action, of course, if for some reason we cannot do this, would be to keep the plant on hold till such time as market conditions for Hydroquinone and Catechol and then take a decision going forward on what really we can do with that facility.
Okay. Second would be if you could share the data or the volume for Hydroquinone for this quarter and Catechol for the quarter?
No, sharing that data is a bit difficult because of competitive reasons. But we've worked our Indian Dahej facility at almost 90% of capacity.
Okay. And how much of Catechol are we sitting on in inventory, on our books?
We are sitting on about, I would say, about under 3,000 tons.
I couldn't hear you. Could you repeat?
Under 3,000 tons.
Under 3,000 tons. Okay. And lastly, would the management be looking at any further open offer considering the price we've seen could relatively face some pressure? So do you think the management would consider another open offer or something similar of the sort?
I don't think so. Not that I'm aware of, but no.
Okay. Thank you for being so honest.
Yeah.
Thank you, sir. A reminder to all participants, you may press star and one to ask questions. We have our next question from the line of Jatin Sangwan from Burman Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you. My first question is on Vanillin. So now, in the previous call, we mentioned that we have orders from our clients that we will start dispatching in Q4. So have we started dispatching those orders or let's say if they are delayed, and what are the reasons for the delay, and by when are we expecting to start dispatching those orders?
We have already started selling in this quarter. Our expectation is that as we go forward, the momentum of sales will improve. But we've already started selling substantial quantities.
Okay. We mentioned that we'll be selling around 130-150 tons per month. So is it around the same number, or the number has reduced because of the weaker demand?
No, it will be in that range. It will be in that range starting from February.
Okay. So not from January. It will be from February.
Yeah. Yeah.
Was that number?
January will be a little less. Yeah. But I think from February, March, we already are in that range.
Okay. So we will be selling around 100 tons of Vanillin at a price of $10.
Yeah, roughly. I mean, give or take 2 cents.
Okay. Got it. Are there any plans to sell vanillin in India? Because India is also a 2,000-ton annual market of vanillin. Are we also looking at the Indian market, or we're just only looking at exports?
We are also selling in the Indian market. It's not that we are not selling. But right now, the price pressure is immense from the Chinese producer. So that's why they're not really pushing hard in the Indian market. But as prices improve and things turn, of course, India will be a focus market for us.
Okay. Got it. My second question is around Europe. Europe this quarter had a loss of INR 28 crores. Let's say if I exclude that INR 6 crores from power subsidy, the loss comes out to be INR 22 crores. Are there any steps to minimize the loss before the plant starts or before we take any action on Europe, or is it like a going forward number of INR 22 crores that will go for, let's say, one quarters or two quarters before we decide anything on Europe?
No, so there are some actions that we are taking to reduce the fixed cost. Specifically, with the employees, we put them on furlough, which kind of reduces our labor cost and some other interventions also. So I think we are looking at at least INR 7-8 crores per quarter reduction in costs.
Okay. And also, if I look at from, let's say, the PBT was INR 28 crores or, let's say, INR 22 crores, but if I look at revenue was INR 30 crores. Now, this revenue may start coming up after, let's say, Q4 FY 2024. So if revenue may not come in Q1 FY 2025, so what are the total costs, let's say, if I exclude the revenue? Because we would be having some variable profit due to the sale of INR 30 crores that we had in this quarter.
We didn't exactly get your question, but you were saying how much margin came from the INR 31 crore revenue. Is that the question?
So I was asking, Europe did INR 30 crores of revenue and INR 32 crores for lower. So there would be, let's say, fixed costs and variable costs. So I want to ask, what is the fixed cost? Let's say if the revenue goes to zero, so what will be the fixed cost that will remain?
So fixed cost is entirely fixed cost because we have not produced anything during this quarter. And what we are selling is the inventory which we had produced before shutting down the plant. These are the orders which we had on an annual basis, which we had produced, and we are satisfying those orders.
Yeah. But there would be some gross margin you would have earned on this INR 31 crores, no?
So the gross margin, we would have earned around 10-odd% on those sales because these costs were high then this was produced.
The selling price has gone down. So we would have done around 10% margin on this.
Okay. So if I do the math right, the fixed cost is around INR 25 crores, and you are planning to reduce it by 5-7 crores every quarter.
INR 7-8 crores. Yeah.
Okay. My last question is around the subsidiaries part, basically on the blends. Now, if I look at, let's say, the overall numbers, Europe did a PBT loss of INR 28 crores. India was at a loss of INR 18 crores. And if I exclude also the INR 12-crore loss that we had due to currency depreciation, so the number comes out that the subsidiaries in Brazil, Mexico, and North America, they are making a PBT profit of INR 45 crores, and the revenue in this quarter was INR 223 crores. So what has actually driven this margin?
Because last year, if I check FY23, North America and Brazil were not making any money at PBT level. Mexico was at 10%-15% margin at PBT level. So what has driven this margin that all these subsidiaries combined are now making a PBT margin of around 20%?
Yeah. So basically, in North America and Brazil, if you compare what were the sales last year compared to this year, there has been a growth which is significant in both these markets. And growth in North America has also been, I think, exponential as compared to last year. Therefore, the margin profile has changed from where it was with a low base of sales but fixed costs being high. The fixed costs haven't really gone up much, but the gross margins have improved as well as the numbers on top line have increased considerably. So if you look at it in North America, we were doing INR 25 crores. We are doing INR 65 crores now in the quarter as compared to last year's corresponding quarter. So that's really what is driving the margins up.
Similarly, in Brazil as well, we've grown, and the gross margins have improved from 25% to almost 31%. Even the business has; the revenue has grown by almost 15%. That's what is driving the margins. Even in Mexico, the product mix and our focus on costs has helped us improve our gross margins by almost 4%-5%.
Okay. Got it. And as you mentioned that we have grown significantly in North America, are there any burn-offs in this growth, or is it sustainable growth that we will be looking forward to?
At this point, at least for the next few quarters, it's sustainable. We are also looking at some new businesses flowing in as well. So I think this is kind of sustainable at this point of time.
Okay. What kind of growth, let's say, are we looking for in North America and Brazil for FY2025 and FY2026, or is it too early to comment on that?
Sorry, what was your question?
What would be the growth in this quarter?
Growth. Yeah, so the growth, I think, in FY25 should be at least 25% or so.
For North America and Brazil?
Yes.
Okay. Thank you. That was my last question.
Thank you, sir. A reminder to all participants, you may press star and one to ask questions. We have our next question from the line of Ankur Periwal from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Just looking at the standalone numbers here, which is largely India operations, right, if you can help understand the sharp decline in the operating profits, even if I look at the adjusted numbers on a sequential basis?
Yeah. So the gross margin has come down by about 5%, which is driven by reduction in the sales price in this quarter for most of the products that we are selling, including hydroquinone, catechol, and all the downstreams. That has kind of led to the erosion of gross margin by about 5%. The price pressure continues to remain in this quarter as well. But we are expecting in the next two, three quarters, this price pressure should start easing off.
Sure. What will be driving that uptake in prices, as you suggested?
Sorry?
You mentioned that in the next couple of quarters, we should see some pricing uptake.
Yeah. Yeah. That's because of China. I mean, what we understand from the year and what we understand is that some interventions will be taken by the Chinese government to kickstart their economy, which is expected in the next 2-3 quarters. And if that happens, then the dumping that the Chinese producers are doing because of no markets because of the local markets not really being lucrative, I think that pressure will ease off. And that's what is the expectation of the industry at this point of time.
Okay. Largely, we are expecting the Chinese demand to pick up, not any cuts at the supply side, per se.
Yes. That's right. Yeah.
Fair enough. And not only for the quarter, but if I look at, let's say, the sequential performance, and I'm comparing the consolidated minus standalone, there is a sequential uptake in terms of profits from the subsidiaries there. What is driving the growth here, given that the China subsidiary and Europe we are still facing some pressure?
Yeah. So basically, it's a blend business, which I mentioned earlier, in North America, Mexico, and Brazil, which is growing and growing well with decent gross margins. So I think that is what is really driving sequentially what is driving the business. Yeah.
Okay. We do expect that part of the business to sustain the profitability going ahead?
Yes.
Okay. From a cost of production perspective, you did mention India facility is operating at around 90-odd% utilization. Was that right?
Yes. Yes.
At INR 480-odd crores revenues in India, how much more is there a scope for us to grow? Is it largely the incremental growth largely here will be pricing-led, or there are certain other revenues that we should look at?
No. So if you see in this quarter, our Vanillin sales were insignificant. And that's where the real growth will come from, is the scale-up of Vanillin in the market. And potentially, it's a substantial market for us to play in. And that's where the real big push in growth will come from. And also, of course, our blend business, which is really capacity is not such an issue, is something that we are pushing and growing in the Indian market.
This blend, we will be increasing capacity here?
Yeah. I mean, the capacity in blending is we have enough capacity. The 90% I said was for Hydroquinone and Catechol. For blend, the capacity is available.
Sure. Sorry, going back to the first part, the pricing pressure or the margin pressure that we have seen in standalone operations, which is India, is because of the pricing at the vanillin side. HQ prices is still okay, or there is pressure?
Both. Both. Both. But no, Vanillin actually is not sold much. The pricing pressure is on all fronts, HQ, and it's all downstreams because HQ prices are down. Downstream prices come down. So it's been across the board.
Okay. Just last question, from an India standpoint, the cost of production, let's say, for HQ for us versus our peers or maybe more global competition, how big the gap will be? I'm just trying to understand if China is dumping, maybe they are selling at cost, or there is, and they have an advantage in terms of their cost of production as well.
No, I don't think they have much of an advantage on cost of production because costs are slightly higher in China than they are in India. So as far as the Chinese competition is concerned, I think they are probably selling at a loss at this point of time when you look at both combined hydroquinone and catechol. We know in Italy what our costs are, and it's not viable. So the producers in Europe, for sure, are not making money. Producers in the U.S., also, at these kind of prices would probably be losing money. So I think it's across the board, people are losing money. So I think it's a matter of time till this turns around. Yeah.
Sure, sir. That's helpful. That's it from my side, and thank you. All the best.
Thank you. A reminder to all participants, you may press star and one to ask a question. We have our next question from the line of Surya Narayan Patra from PhillipCapital India Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for this opportunity, sir. My first question is on the subdued performance, obviously, on the top line as well as on the margins. Sir, is it the currently whatever performance operating that we are seeing, is it because of the pricing pressure, or it is the weak demand? So why I am asking this means HQ that we would be supplying, or we would be one of the leading global suppliers. So whether it is the demand for HQ is low, hence prices are low, and accordingly, whether demand even for the downstreams are low, or it is the pricing dumping of the Chinese of the downstream product that is driving down the things.
No. So I think on the HQ level, the pricing has come down. Demand is not such an issue for us. At least, we've grown our downstream volumes in this quarter as compared to last quarter, whether it's TBHQ, BHA, MEHQ, all of them. So I don't see that as so much of a problem, but it's more pricing than demand. Of course, pricing is also due to the fact that some new capacity also came up in China for HQ in the last year. So therefore, obviously, there is a bit of oversupply situation, which has led to this price erosion. But my sense is that the demand in specifically HQ and some of the other downstreams, non-food downstreams in China, has slowed down.
That is causing the big problem in HQ pricing, which, as soon as the demand picks up in China, I think we'll see a turnaround. Yeah.
Okay. Sir, just an extended one to this. So in fact, the integrated nature of the new plants what we have created, that is both the diphenol as well as the vanillin plant. So obviously, it is well known that it is integrated, one of the significant low-cost manufacturing base compared to the global peers and all that. But the benefit of that has not flowed in because of either it is the pricing pressure. And this situation is likely to continue possibly for a couple more quarters or so. So if that is the scenario, is there any corrective action from our side that is possible, or we have to be awaiting for the market to really correct?
No. So see, our focus is on several fronts, right? One, of course, is aggressively growing the blend business. Yeah?
Yes. Yes.
Which we are seeing that the margin profile is reasonable, and it can be scaled. And that's one focus area for us in the short term to try and grow that as quickly as possible. So that's one end. Second end is in the downstreams, what we are seeing is it's kind of reached a bottom, the price. We haven't seen the price erode in the last 45 days. And I think there is a bit of a hydroquinone prices have also started moving up. They had come down at one point to even $4.5. And now we see that competition is coming at about $5.2, a little bit more. So there is a bit of a turnaround in the last 45 days in terms of pricing of hydroquinone, which in the downstream will get reflected in the next quarter.
Okay. And sir, with regards to the vanillin contracts, so the long-term supply contracts or the annual contracts, so whether the tendering period that has been over, or how is it? Sir, in fact, generally, it is believed that.
So all of them generally have now converted from annual. They've actually gone down to quarterly because of the uncertainty in the market right now. They also understand that it's a dumping situation. And there is a risk for them also to tie up long-term contracts, and then they're not honored. And it's an unnatural situation, right? I mean, they understand that people are selling. The Chinese are selling under cost. They've made a lot of money in the past two years. And now they are just doing predatory pricing, which, of course, the buyer understands that this is predatory pricing. So they're being very careful on wanting to sign annual contracts. I think most of them have kind of gone for quarterly contracts. Some of them have gone for half-yearly. And they're opening up those half-yearly as well.
So for example, one large F&F company, we bid, but we didn't go down to the Chinese prices. But they've come back to us and wanting a supply at a slightly better price than the Chinese, which, of course, we did not get that bid. So we are seeing that kind of thing. So they are also very uncertain because of the uncertainty of the market. They are also being careful and not to make long-term commitments, knowing very well that they may not get supplied at all if they make those kind of commitments.
Okay. Sir, generally, the perception since COVID now that has been created among the Western world that any food element or food input, food-related inputs manufactured out of China may not be reliable. And that's what we have been seeing in case of pharma industry and all that. So is it not that playing out here in vanillin?
So, see, it's difficult because what happens is they may give you preference, but the pricing benchmark is then kept at that, right? So that's a bigger challenge. And some of these applications, because it's fragrance, where they don't care where the material is coming from, so that kind of becomes the benchmark pricing. So that is what we are for us, that is the challenge. And that's what we are trying to do. We are not trying to enter into a price war and try and play at the lower end. We play where a customer is willing to pay more for better stability and quality. Yeah.
Okay. Okay. Just last one from my side. So see, in fact, you've talked about refurbishing of this Chinese plant as well as the Italy plant. So if you can throw some light about your plans in terms of executing those strategies and the kind of money that you would be requiring to whatever modification that you would require for that.
Yeah. So for the Italy plant, the basic engineering is in process. The environmental clearance is in process. So by March end, we will have a clear-cut idea of what timeline and what is the cost required to convert it to. But it's not going to be very significant because the process is very similar as what we have today. So unlikely, that will be a very substantial investment. Similarly, in China as well, environmental clearance because of the region that we were in went through two or three regulatory changes. And now it's getting more clear. So our team is actually going to be there soon and figure out how long it will take for the environmental clearance to get that environmental clearance. Once we have that idea, we know that the investment is not substantial to convert that plant for Heliotropin.
But it will depend on the environmental clearance.
Okay. Sir, for this new plant, the Italy plant, it is a derivative of HQ that you're talking about. So then, if it is that, then the existing plant will remain as it is, or you are talking completely replacing with some other product?
No. So we are looking at what we are exploring is to make MEHQ and Guaiacol from Anisole. So it is very similar process as our current hydroquinone and catechol. And apart from I mean, here, you're using Anisole as raw material. For hydroquinone and catechol, you're using phenol as raw material. But the process is almost identical.
The target market for that operation would be China since that is the largest target market, or it is even in Europe and other advanced market you have target?
So for MEHQ, the target market will be U.S., Europe, Southeast Asia, China, all, all, all because it's a large market, almost 5,000-5,500-ton market. So there, we will focus on the global markets. As far as Guaiacol is concerned, because it's a joint product with MEHQ, in all likelihood, we'll bring it to India to convert to vanilla.
Okay. Okay. So, sir, yeah. Thank you, sir. Wish you all the best.
Thanks. Thanks.
Thank you, sir. We have our next question from the line of Jainam Ghilani from Swan Investments. Please go ahead.
Hello. Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. I have a few questions. Initially, sir, we were planning to launch new products in quarter four, mainly in downstream products of blends. What is the update for that?
So that is a continuous process. We made several new products that we are now introducing in the market. The scale-up and the rollout will happen aggressively in the next financial year. But yes, we have already placed all these new products that we've developed into the markets in different markets. It's in Central America, South America, India, parts of Asia. So yeah, that's progressing well.
Okay. And what was the contribution of new products in the current quarter, and what do we expect it to be in the upcoming quarters?
So in the current quarter, it's in Q4 that these products will start showing. We expect going forward next year, about at least 10% of our business should come from the new products.
Okay. So what would be the fixed cost for our Europe plant and Chinese plant for each quarter?
I think that has already been answered. Chinese is about INR 2 crores per quarter.
Okay. Sir, we were also planning to get Vanillin orders from this quarter. Any update on it? What could be the pricing for the same, if you could tell us, please?
I think we just answered all these questions. Yeah.
Okay. That's it from my side. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. We have our next question from the line of Tushar from Kamakhya Wealth Management. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good afternoon, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. I just wanted to understand the vanillin situation. How do you see that in terms of utilization for FY25 and FY26, sir?
I think we've answered that question earlier.
Okay. In terms of utilization, your plant utilization?
Yeah. Yeah. We answered that question for FY25 that we are looking at about 40%-50% in terms of the market conditions as we see the market conditions.
Okay. Sir, like you mentioned in the past, that would be reaching INR 600-700 crore from that plant. Do you maintain that revenue, or do you see a dip in that?
No. So it, again, depends on the pricing that we see in the market. Capacity is 6,000 tons. So potentially, if it's a $10 market, it's $60 million at this point of time. That's what it's looking like.
Fair enough. And sir, how are you seeing the Q4 current quarter in terms of margins and growth? Hello?
Difficult to say at this point of time. Yeah.
Fair enough. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. A reminder to all participants, you may press star one if you want to ask questions. We have our next question from the line of Jatin Sangwan from Berman Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you. I had just two follow-up questions on vanillin. First one is around the inventory that we are carrying. So is my understanding correct that we are carrying this inventory at a very high cost? Now we know that our cost of vanillin has grown to $8-$8.5. But this inventory that we'll be liquidating would be at a substantially higher cost. Is my understanding right?
Yes. So the inventory that we are carrying is at a slightly higher price. But I think it's not substantially very. The impact will not be very substantial. But yes.
The sale prices, we expect to be the same as the cost at which we are carrying.
Okay. So it's around $10?
Yeah. Okay. Less than $10. But we are expecting that average realization will be subtle. So we don't expect making huge margins on that.
Okay. Got it.
Second question is around the vanillin utilization. Now, I mean, of course, we have given our guidance of 40%-50% utilization for FY25 for vanillin. But what kind of visibility, let's say, just checking today, what kind of visibility do we have of now? Of course, the market will be evolving. But what kind of visibility do we have now from the contracts or from the dealers, the distributors we are in talks with?
Yes. Based on that visibility, we are saying it should be at this level.
Okay. So it is the minimum kind of utilization that you will do. And if the situation improves, it could be higher than that.
That's right.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for giving us your time. We look forward to interacting with you again when we have our next call after the quarter. Thank you very much. Have a good day.
Thank you. On behalf of Camlin Fine Sciences Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.