Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Camlin Fine Sciences Limited Q2 FY25 earnings conference call. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on beliefs, opinions, and expectations of the company as on the date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participants will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star and zero on a touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ashish Dandekar, Chairman and Managing Director. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to our earnings call. I know your time is precious, so let us get on with the proceedings. With me is Santosh Parab, CFO, and Nirmal Momaya, Managing Director. Santosh will take you through the quarter's performance and issues, and then Nirmal Momaya will be there to answer all your questions. So without wasting any more time, I'll hand this over to Santosh.
Thanks, Ashish. Good afternoon. Let me directly dive into the company's performance. The company has increased its revenue to INR 422 crore, which is 6.9% higher than that of last quarter. The growth is largely fueled by the increase in aroma products and our sustained growth in blends. Gross margins have improved to 48.2%, mainly on better performance of aroma, which unwinds us from catechol issues. Margins in blends have resulted with sustained growth. This has obviously reflected in our operational EBITDA, which has now crossed double digits and is at 10.2%, up by around 305 basis points quarter on quarter and 242 basis points with respect to corresponding quarters. As you know, crude prices, supply chain costs, coupled with these volatile foreign exchange movements, will have some impact, and we are watching it very cautiously.
Revenue from performance chemicals has been muted and will remain muted due to the pricing advance. As I said earlier, catechol unwinding is the most important priority to us, and we are looking at other catechol downstream as well. Aroma products have clocked a revenue of around INR 45 crore as compared to only INR 13 crore in last quarter. The anti-dumping action on Chinese manufacturers by U.S. and Europe would augur well as aroma business once it is leveled. As you are aware, our facility in CFS Europe was temporarily shut down since August 2023. The current economic situation does neither seem to be ideal for repurposing the facilities for the proposed MEHQ guaiacol, nor for restart of diphenol manufacturing. The management of CFS Europe has decided to prolong the shutdown of diphenol facility and concentrate on blending and other businesses in Europe.
Hence, the company has decided to impair the cash-generating unit of diphenol facility located at CFS Europe. The total net impact thereof was of INR 116 crore on the consolidated results for this quarter. Similarly, the economic conditions are extremely challenging in China, whereby it seems that the repurposing of our facility in China for manufacturing heliotropin would also take much more time than what was expected earlier. Even the current sentiment with respect to Chinese manufactured products is not very exciting globally. The company has hence, after the review of the current situation during the quarter, impaired the entire business of CFS Wanglong, and we have recognized around INR 30 crore of impairment. Of course, both these things have a telling impact on standalone financial results also, though consolidated results are on the group level. There were intercompany outstandings which have been impaired in the standalone as well.
Along with some exceptional items and recognitions, the total impact on the financial results of these exceptional items was around INR 151 crore. Profit before exceptional items was positive INR 8.73 crore as compared to loss of INR 23.48 crore in the last quarter. In the given circumstances, it is indeed a remarkable improvement. Liquidity situation of the company remains a challenge, and working capital management is very high up on our agenda. As you are aware, the management is working on launching a rights issue in a very near future to address these issues. We would again reiterate our commitment to stabilize the performance revenue and consequently margin. The economic cues are promising, but they seem to be skewed towards the last part of this financial year. I will now hand back the proceedings to the conductor to open the floor for question- and- answer sessions. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touch-tone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. First question is from the line of Kaustav Bubna from BMSPL Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. Thank you for taking my questions. This is Kapil. So the first one is, Trump has stated in his previous interviews that China is dumping products into the U.S. from Mexico. He has stated that he is going to increase scrutiny and maybe tariffs for goods coming into the U.S. from Mexico. What could be the possible impact of his action on Camlin Fine Sciences as the company has a manufacturing facility in Mexico? What chemicals are sold out of the Mexican plant in North America? How much sales does North America contribute to the Mexico plant?
Okay. So basically, Mexico anti-dumping duty is for what Trump has said is essentially, in fact, the administration, it's not the president who are saying it. The administration is saying if there is any bypassing of regulations under the NAFTA agreement, they will levy anti-dumping duties.
So as long as there is value addition, which is genuine and which is made not out of Japanese investment, I'm sorry, Chinese investment or Chinese original products, I think we should be okay. Our first half business, the second part of the question, from Mexico to U.S., that's just blending, which can always be done in U.S. itself if there is any action taken on Mexico, is about 63 crore.
Okay, great. And my second question was on your debt levels. Could you, I mean, these debt levels are slightly discomforting, so could you give a strategy on debt reduction or at least the way you perceive your current debt levels? That's my last question. Thanks.
So the debt level on gross level has been high. There's no question about debts. We have a debt level of around INR 750 crore on a gross level. It's pretty high. We know that. Obviously, we don't have any immediate plans to reduce these debt levels because once we have to stabilize the business, put all the business in line and then we'll think about it. We are looking at it that we should not add the debt level further. Our net debt level is around INR 650 crore and gross is INR 741 crore across the companies. And our short-term borrowing is related to working capital is around INR 300 crore and INR 440 crore is long-term debt because finance of our acquisitions in Mexico as well as two big plants of diphenol and vanillin in India. Obviously, we have been repaying these loans.
We'll be repaid to the extent of around INR 35 crore annually. At this moment of time, we don't foresee any increase in the loans. But the loans are high. But as the business grows, we don't think we'll increase it. But at this moment of time, there is no concrete plan to reduce it immediately.
Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Jatin Sangwan from Burman Capital. Please go ahead.
Thanks for taking my question. Sir, you mentioned that you have taken the complete impairment for China. I wanted to ask question related to Europe. You have, of course, taken an impairment of INR 116 crore. So is this the complete impairment that you have taken for Europe, and is the understanding that there will be no further losses from Europe in the coming quarters?
So as far as Europe is concerned, we had two CGUs. One was diphenol facility which was closed. We also have a blending plant, of course, it's a very small plant of around INR 10 crore, EUR 1 million, which is working, and we are churning revenues from them. Diphenol plant is completely closed. We have taken the entire impairment of that CGU. So all the assets related to that CGU have been impaired on what we have done. So we don't think any further impairment on that will be there because there is no CGU asset left in the financial statements with respect to diphenol facility.
Sir, what will the running cash cost after this impairment for Europe?
We do have a loan there to the extent of around INR 80 crore. We would be going to the bank for restructuring those loans, and we are very confident that the revenues which are generated from blends, and we will be increasing our focus on blends, which will take care of this outstanding in Europe. At present, in this year also, without this quarter, also without diphenol business, we had an INR 18 crore of turnover in Europe. On a yearly basis, we have been doing a blending turnover of near to INR 100 crore in Europe. Once we concentrate more on that and increase that footprint, we are quite confident that we will be able to service those loans. Of course, some kind of restructuring and handling will be required with the banks, and we approach the banks for that.
Sir, you mentioned that blending revenue from blends is INR 18 crore, and we have a loan of INR 80 crore. What kind of EBITDA margin do we make on this blend so that we could pay this loan of INR 80 crore?
At present, on the standalone basis, the blends business is doing a 14%-15% EBITDA margin. But diphenol business had, because we were thinking about continuing the operation, repurposing the plant, we had held on to the people and personnel working on that. Now, since we have planned to mothball or say have a prolonged shutdown of this plant, we would be retrenching these guys and trying to reduce the bleed on account of diphenol to around INR 1 crore per quarter. And that will improve our EBITDA because at present, the EBITDA which is earned by blends is taken over, eaten up by the cost of diphenol maintenance.
Sir, if I just got it right, earlier the loss in Europe used to be around INR 15 crore per quarter. You are mentioning that that will reduce to like INR 1 crore per quarter.
The cost which we are incurring of around INR 15 crore to INR 16 crore on diphenol maintenance and people and other costs will reduce it to INR 1 crore per quarter.
Got it. Sir, my second question is around vanillin. So of course, I mean, ADD investigation is going on Chinese suppliers, both from European and U.S. authorities. So what kind of demand and client requests have you seen, and what kind of utilization target are you guiding for FY25?
Basically, we are seeing very good traction from both U.S. and Europe. Of course, the capacity utilization, currently we are at about 40%, which by end of FY25, we should be hitting closer to, on a run rate basis, closer to 55% or so. The idea is by FY26, we should be at least 75% capacity utilization, and following years to take it up to 100.
Got it. And sir, has there been any improvement in the pricing of vanillin?
Yes, there has been a slight improvement. Yeah.
How much, if you could quantify?
We didn't get your question.
Yes, sir. How much improvement has been there, and what kind of EBITDA margin are we currently making on vanillin?
We've improved the pricing by about $1 or so per kilo.
Okay. And what kind of EBITDA margin we are currently at?
No, we have not worked out the EBITDA margin separately because it all comes under one group. We don't do it segmentally.
But selling vanillin also covers us from the bleed that is from catechols. Once we value add a catechol, we recover INR 100 more on catechol than we value- added to vanillin.
Sir, if you could just help me understand, how much is the per kilo swing? Because you are also selling catechol. You are not selling catechol, and you're selling vanillin. So how much is the per kilo swing due to this?
Per kilo swing on revenues?
So catechol is $1.
Yes.
Catechol is $1 sale price.
Hello, sir, EBITDA-wise. Earlier, you used to mention that catechol used to incur losses of $1-$2 per EBITDA.
So at the capacity level of 35%-40%, once we scale up the plant to 100%, we will be having a 15%-20% EBITDA on the sale price.
Okay, got it. And sir, can I ask another question, or should I come back in the queue?
Whatever. You can ask.
Okay, sure. Thank you, sir. Sir, I was observing that we are growing blends at a very fast pace as compared to other businesses, especially North America. That is growing very fast. It has close to become from INR 16 crore two years back to like INR 80 crore. So what is driving the strong growth in North America? And of course, on the broader part of the blend business, what kind of revenue are we targeting for blends?
We are looking at growing the blend business by about 20% this year over last year. And I think we are on track for that. And the business in North America is the focus areas are our animal nutrition business, which includes pet food.
Okay, got it. Thank you.
Thank you. Before we move to the next question, a reminder to the participants to ask a question. You may press star and one. Next question is from the line of Ajit Darda from Nirzar Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Good evening. And am I audible, sir?
Yes.
Sir, my first question is regarding Lockheed Martin. Sir, any update on that order, sir?
No, like we mentioned in the last call that we supplied them for the first commercial lot. That battery of theirs will get commercialized by end of the year, commissioned by end of the year, early next year, and thereafter, the next steps will be looked at.
Okay. And sir, second question is on China. I just wanted to have some clarification. Previously, we used to say that we are trying to make heliotropin there. So are we going to do it, or the plant is completely shut going forward? I mean, it won't be reused.
So the heliotropin, what we have done is we had a relook at the heliotropin project out of China because of all these anti-dumping actions being taken by U.S. and Europe. So at the appropriate time, we will be setting up the capacity in India for heliotropin because that is a much safer route for us, keeping in mind all these actions that are going on.
Okay. So we won't be doing any manufacturing business in China, right?
Yeah. At this point, no, nothing.
Okay. And sir, one question is on other income, sir. Can you just break down other income of this quarter, which is INR 12 crore? And what will be the run rate for the other income going forward? Is it one time or what?
Other income cannot be really estimated.
In this quarter, we had other income of.
Consolidated level, we have INR 12 crore, I guess.
INR 12 crore.
Yeah. The breakup of that was some coordination gain which we had during the year, during the quarter.
Else run rate would be 1 crore only, right?
Yeah. So generally, the estimated other income is around INR 1-INR 1.5 crore on a quarterly basis or annually.
Okay, and sir, my last question, if you allow, is on this business, I mean, equity business. Just wanted to know how much loss going forward, I mean, at EBITDA level from that business will come to our business. Just wanted to confirm the amount.
So I explained that we have a bleed because we have been maintaining that plant and running that plant. We are carrying people. Around INR 15 crore, we are planning to bring down to INR 1 crore within two quarters by laying off the people and other things. So we will be reducing the bleed from INR 15 croce on diphenol to INR 1 crore.
Okay. So the cost will be reduced by INR 14 crore, right?
Yeah, but it will take two quarters.
Okay. Understood, sir. Thank you so much and all the best for the future.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Abbas from InCred. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Sir, what would be EBITDA gain if we write off the assets?
What would be EBITDA? We didn't get the question.
EBITDA gain.
EBITDA?
EBITDA gain if we write off the assets.
I don't think, because these are all mothballed shutdown plants. So there was a bleed from that. There was no revenue coming in last three years for China and almost a year, more than a year for Europe. So in fact, there was a negative bleed on the EBITDA. So write-off has not impacted the EBITDA this quarter.
Okay.
Mr. Abbas, does that answer?
Thank you so much.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Rehan Laljee from Equitree Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thanks for taking the time out. I had a couple of questions. I wanted to understand what would be the rights issue primarily towards? Has the management decided that?
Rights issue what?
I wanted to understand what would be the rights issue towards, what would be the fundraising for? Has the management planned out what the rights issue would be for?
Yes, we have planned out, in fact, the rights issue again for the losses we have done. We are trying to recoup and have support for working capital.
Okay. And what would be the further write-offs or any impairments that the management foresees in the coming quarters?
So there is latency in the businesses. Two big businesses. We have taken care of that. Almost done and dusted with the impairment of two large assets which are not earning any income.
Right. So do we foresee any further such impairments? Because I think out of the three units, one is done. Do we foresee anything on the diphenol, you mentioned? I think some previous participant also asked you that, so the INR 116 crore for the CGU and diphenol is the whole amount, right? Or are we expecting any further write-offs going forward?
Again, we have taken care of entire CGU assets. The other unit is a blend business, and you know that blend business is a very good sustained growth business.
Right. Okay. So no other write-off are we expecting in the next two quarters at such a macro level?
At this moment of time, what the stage of business is there, obviously no because whatever of the impairment to be done has been done. One cannot see. One doesn't know how the businesses go. We feel that there will be no write-offs in the near future.
Okay. And I think in Q1, you had given some guidance whether we would hit double-digit EBITDA margins at a sustainable level for the year. Are you revising your guidance, or are you going to stick with it?
We have already hit double-digit EBITDA margin in this quarter, and we feel that this should remain.
So you feel these margins are sustainable?
Yes.
Okay. Thank you so much.
Thank you. Participants, to ask a question, you may press star and one. Next question is from the line of Surya Narayan Patra from PhillipCapital India Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Hello. Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, my first question is about the near-term outcomes since the external environment is not really very conducive or, let's say, it is unpredictable at this juncture, and we have operations also in Mexico and potential tax implications or the tariff implications that may or may not come. That is also not very certain, so in such a situation, it is better if you can give some clarity about your verticals, what is the kind of outlook that you are having for all your verticals, whether it is Performance Chemical or the Specialty Ingredients or Aroma?
So basically, the blend business will continue to grow. Our estimate is we should be able to grow it at 20% per year for the next couple of years. On the aroma business, we've already spoken about that, that in the next two years, we should be able to take it up to 25%-80% of capacity. And Performance Chemicals, also some value-added products on hydroquinone and catechol are in the pipeline, which should also give us about a 15%-20% growth in the next financial year.
This is on a like-to-like basis, excluding the European business contribution.
Yes, yes. Excluding that. It's on the like-to-like. So Performance Chemicals, for example, right now, is at about 13% of our business, which could the value could grow from whatever, INR 50 crore a quarter to about INR 60-62 crore a quarter.
Okay. Sir, regards, let's say, Aroma business, any incremental color that you can offer? See, we have been trying for adding more sustained and contractual customers and all that and Western world. So any contract that we have signed and that is giving a better and sustained visibility for business?
So we're not signing any long-term contracts because of the uncertainty on the anti-dumping as to what the quantum will be. So typically, we are quoting per quarter or maximum per half a year. So that's the kind of contract that we are doing is either quarterly or half-yearly. We've not done a long-term contract as yet.
Okay. Whether those are within the scope of opportunity because, again, I think the contract period or the contracting cycle that is likely to come up, I think, in this current quarter. So from that angle, also any visibility for a long-term contract signing?
I think both sides, whether it's us or the buyers, are waiting for the anti-dumping duty to get crystallized, right? So, if it is that 50% pricing will be different, if it's at 100%, the pricing will be different. So I don't think either party wants to take a stand today till that is played out. So that's why they're saying that right now, we are getting into the quarter or half-yearly supply agreements for only that period. And both sides are unclear what is going to happen.
So is it fair to believe, sir, since the timeline are not given by both Europe and the U.S., and it is not happening very quickly also, the final imposition of the tariff and the rates of the kind of tariff that is not going to be decided very quickly? So till that time, it would be kind of a quarterly story that we will play. And post that, is there any sense that, okay, the pricing situation that likely to be post that?
It will also largely be defined by what that anti-dumping duty is. So again, you can't go below that price because then you can get exposed to anti-dumping if you're pricing yourself too below that. So it's a matter we have to see. It'll only play out once this is decided. First round is end of November in the U.S., and by April, by May of next year, U.S. will finalize completely. Right now, they will have interim, and then the final order is by May.
Okay. And regards to the blend business, see, generally, that we have seen a kind of steady progression despite the market conditions there in the blend operations. So could you give some sense about the volume value progression there, sir?
So in terms of value progression, I think we are growing at about, like I said, we should be able to grow between 15%-20% for FY25 versus FY24. So FY24 was around INR 700 and odd crore, INR 750 crore. We should probably close around closer to INR 1,000 crore.
So is it fair to believe that the blends have not seen any pricing pressure then?
No. There is pricing pressure in the sense if all raw material prices have come down, it has come down. Volume, we've been able to grow. So clearly, with the correction in many, many chemicals, the prices have come down, which we also, of course, buy a lot of raw material. So we need to pass that on to the customers. So surely on the volume side, we've grown much more than that.
Okay. And regards to the European business now, so since the diphenol operation is no longer there, so it is only the kind of a blend operation from there. And see, we have acquired Vitafor also, which is having a kind of a greater and larger presence in Europe. So what is the kind of integration scope there, and what is the likely benefit that we, if possible, that we can derive out of that integration?
Yeah. So Vitafor has a different set of products compared to mainly their portfolio is more farm products, whereas we are more focused on the feed side. So it gives us an opportunity to address the farm market with the product portfolio that we have in Vitafor, which is proprietary, and we have some good technologies there for those products which are typically also consumed in farms. So our idea is to obviously take those products to all the markets where we have our own platforms for selling, whether our own salespeople or to our distributors. That process is on now. We are onboarding it and taking registrations in many countries where we believe the markets would be conducive for us to be in.
Okay. So in your presentation, you have mentioned that while scrapping this European unit also, there is some you're targeting a negotiated settlement with lenders. What is that we are targeting here, sir?
Just basically, we are targeting that the outstanding that we have gets stretched over a period of a number of years as opposed to the working amount we can do in the next couple of years. That's the.
Okay. Just last one, sir. Because we are scrapping the entire operation of the diphenol, so any severe risk package or anything that which can further hit our financials going ahead, any scope of that?
So we have given a furlough. So we have taken care of that earlier. So we don't expect any retrenchment there. Enough provision will take care of that in the books. And we don't foresee any payment for layoff or something to be paid to the employees. That has been taken care of. We knew, and so we went for a furlough with the government, and we have given enough notice to them. So by the end of this financial year, we can retrench that.
Okay. Okay. Sure. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Rohit Sinha from Sunidhi Securities. Please proceed.
Yeah. Thank you for taking my question. Sorry, my line got dropped earlier, so maybe my question would be repetitive. So one question on the vanillin side. I mean, after commissioning our product, what kind of utilization level right now we have reached? And I hope a good contribution would be there in this quarter from vanillin as well. So what kind of outlook we have for vanillin in terms of pricing scenario also as prices have quite corrected significantly in the last one year? And is there any further scope or chances where we would be looking to expand our vanillin capacity?
What we did answer is that to summarize, we are running at 40%. We are planning to scale up to for an yearly volume of 50%. In the next one year, we'll be trying to reach the 100% capacity of 6,000. The prices are improved. They are now nearing $10. At present, we'll first utilize what capacity we have of 6,000. We'll optimize that, and then later on, at this moment of time, we don't have any plans to enhance the vanillin capacity.
Okay. Okay. And earlier, I think one and a half years back when we were talking about this vanillin product, that time the prices were quite high at around $18-$20, which is now trading at around $10. With what kind of, I would say, what kind of demand improvement we are anticipating or what kind of outlook we have to see prices going further for vanillin to at least in the range of next $13-$14 kind of range, or it would remain, you feel, it would remain in this similar $10-$11 range?
If we did answer this question, but again, briefly, as you know, there is an anti-dumping duty action which has been initiated by U.S. and European authorities primarily to curtail the Chinese dumping and predatory pricing. Chinese are the guys who have reduced these prices. They are out of the market. The prices should come back. One cannot say how much. They'll be certainly higher than what they are at this stage.
On the diphenol side, as we have completely closed down that facility, at the blends facility, what utilization level we are operating, and there, is there further scope for expanding?
So basically, we are operating Dahej capacity at 80% because that's the requirement that we have for hydroquinone and catechol in our business. As our vanillin business progresses, as well as our other downstream diphenol products increase, we will keep pushing up the capacity utilization.
Okay. Okay. That's it from my side, sir. Thank you, and best of luck.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Sani Vishe from Axis Securities. Please go ahead.
Hello. Am I audible?
Yes.
Okay. Thank you for taking my question, sir. So what I'm trying to understand is we said we have this pending revenue of around INR 18 crore to INR 19 crore in Europe. And I think for the full H1, it was somewhere around INR 49 crore. So do we expect that the revenues will be, I mean, this will be the run rate in Europe because now that we don't expect anything from the impaired business?
This is at least revenue. These are blend revenue. These are the minimum we'll be focusing more. And as Nirmal was saying, that we'll be focusing on other products in blend other than in Vitafor. And we expect that this will be growing at a very faster rate than what it is now.
Okay. Understood. That's it from my side. Thanks.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Nitin Gandhi from Innoquest Advisors Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for taking my question. I just take whatever we discussed. So we are expecting blends to move from roughly INR 220 crore to INR 300 crore over four or five quarters. Aroma to be increased from somewhere around capacity utilization of 25% to 80%, so effectively from INR 40-45 crore to INR 100 crore. And hydroquinone PC to 15%-20% growth, maybe to INR 65 crore to INR 70 crore. So same way, just confirm this understanding. And same way, if you can share something for the States, how what's your plan? And if all this materializes, I think EBITDA can comfortably shoot to at least 15%-16%. Is my understanding correct?
Yes. The prices support, yes, depending on how the market plays. But yes, your top-line numbers, the revenues are right. The margin really is dependent on what the pricing will remain in the market. So yes.
For States, can you share what's the expected movement, which you?
So in States, we are more or less, I think we are at market share. So unless some new applications come, it will remain there.
Okay. And there isn't any new application on the plan, or are there plans?
We keep working on many new applications. So if that happens, of course, there will be some extra sales that can come.
Great. I think it's good. You've taken a good decision to clean up, and I wish you all the best. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question is from the line of Rohan Advant from Prad Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. So thanks for the opportunity. So we have now reached an EBITDA margin of 10.2% in this quarter. And from the comments that you made regarding the Europe facility and the savings that will accrue to us, we should save about INR 14 crore to INR 15 crore in a couple of quarters more. So that would add another 4% kind of EBITDA. So even on a current price basis, if they stay as is, once we save these costs that are due to the European operations right now, shouldn't we be at 14-15% EBITDA margins by Q4?
So Rohan, your calculation is correct. But as I said, the savings will happen only after two quarters because we have to retrain people and do a lot of things. So at least in this year, this bleed will remain for some period of time for these two quarters.
Okay.
Basically, this kicks in in the next financial year.
Got it. So once there could be some one-time costs that could come our way in the next two quarters. But once they are behind us, we should be even at current prices at 14%-15% margin, right? At current prices, right?
Yes.
At current prices.
Yes.
Yes. Yes. Yes. And sir, secondly, regarding the anti-dumping duty, what are the timelines and what are the steps here on for it to see the light of day? And the current U.S. political situation, does that help us, hurt us in any way in terms of ADD being imposed?
Very difficult to say whether it'll help or hurt. That's really beyond our understanding. But in terms of timelines, as the government had earlier spelled out the timelines, by November end, early December, there will be the interim order, and the final order is expected middle of next year, May, June of next year.
Understood. Thank you, sir, and all the best.
Thanks.
Thank you. Participants, to ask a question, you may press star and one. Next, we have our next follow-up question from the line of Jatin Sangwan from Burman Capital. Please proceed.
Sir, based on the current visibility we have, so what kind of revenue we can do in H2 of FY25, and what kind of EBITDA margin can we do?
What is the revenue in the next half?
The revenue will probably grow from where we are on this quarter, with some addition to it on our blends and vanillin business and EBITDA margin should probably remain where we are right now. Maybe slight improvement if things improve.
Got it. And what's the picture looking like?
Generally, Jatin, if you see, traditionally, our first quarter, and it's around 45%/ 55%, 40%/ 60%, so looking at the current scenario, I think we will log in around 10% more than what we are doing at this current prices, and as Nirmal said, and I also said that there is some bleed from Europe happening, we will have at least almost the same EBITDA for the next two quarters.
Got it. And sir, how will the picture look like for FY26? Can we do revenue of like INR 23 crore to INR 24 crore, or will we be below that?
We should be in that region.
What kind of EBITDA margin are we looking? Because the bleed from Europe will go away.
Difficult to say, but it should remain in the teens.
Mid-teens? Can we reach mid-teens?
Mid-teens. Difficult to say again what pricing, and very, very difficult to predict.
Okay. Got it. Thank you.
Thank you. As there are no further questions from the participants, I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for the closing comments.
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for spending your precious time in understanding our operations and situation. We look forward to interacting with you at the end of this quarter. Until then, we wish you well for the new year. Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of Camlin Fine Sciences Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.