Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to Mold-Tek Packaging Q4 FY 2024 Earnings Conference Call hosted by Nirmal Bang Equities. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Abhishek Navalgund from Nirmal Bang Equities. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Navalgund.
Thank you, Renju. Hello, everyone. On behalf of Nirmal Bang Institutional Equities, I welcome you all to Mold-Tek Packaging full Q4 FY 2024 earnings conference call. We have with us Mr. Lakshmana Rao, the Chairman and Managing Director of the company, along with the entire finance team. Without further ado, I would request Lakshmana, sir, to start with his opening comments, post which we can open the floor for question and answers. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Abhishek, and thank you all the participants who are online. I am happy to be here today to talk to you all about the Q4 results and the year ending March 31, 2024. As we have on hand, the sales volume for the year has increased close to 4.84% in terms of sales volume. Revenues look because there are material price reduction. So we always go by with volumes. So volume-wise, there is an increase of 4.84%. The main segments which have grown rapidly were Food and FMCG and Q-Pack, whereas the paints has registered a negative growth. Secondly, the good news is that we have started our pharma commercial production in our pharma plant at Sultanpur, and there is a very good response so far. Numbers are also ticking in in terms of sales volumes from April onwards. That is the good news.
Also we have started the two plants for Aditya Birla Group at Panipat and Cheyyar. They went into commercial production sometime in mid-March this year. The numbers are improving starting from April onwards. So that way, these two are the major positives which will take forward the company's growth in the coming years. One is the two plants of ABG, and the third plant will be getting ready by October, November. That is at Mahad. So these three plants will be adding considerable numbers towards in the coming months or maybe coming years. The pharmaceutical entry brings Mold-Tek into the foray of pharma packaging, which is a very high growth and high value-add line of activity. This is briefly the data about the company, but anyway, we will share more details during the question and answers. I now ask the moderator to go through the Q&A.
Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on your touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question comes from the line of Jaivee r Shekhawat with Ambit Capital. Please go ahead.
Sure. Thanks for taking my question. Mr. Rao, first question is on your thin packs. We have seen that growth during this quarter has fallen to single digits, and most of your growth in the F&F segment is being led by the Q-Packs. I want to understand what has led to this single-digit growth in the thin packs, given we have been experiencing very intense heatwaves across the country, and that should have ideally resulted in higher ice cream volumes for you. If you could clarify that.
Yeah. The previous year's numbers are what counted in the total year because April- June of this year will come into the Q1. The ice cream consumption picks up from middle of March and peaks in April and May. Last year, if you all remember, there were a lot of rains and early set of monsoon, which has impacted the ice cream industry by more than 17%-20%. That is one of the reasons why our Food and FMCG numbers are down to the single-digit growth. A couple of projects like Kissan Jam and Horlicks, which we are supposed to have started, were delayed into this year. Just now in April, May, we have started their commercial production. That is one of the major reasons why we could not post a double-digit growth in Food and FMCG.
Coming to Q-Packs, not only edible oils, but many other sectors have started finding the usefulness of Q-Packs. Our ability to push our IP rights in the High Court of Delhi and subsequently stopping some of the competitors who are copying our designs without consent and using them. That also helped in establishing our products better in the market. Today we have seen 80% growth in Q-Pack sales in the current financial year. Even the trend during the first few months is still better. We still see a growth of very high, maybe at least 30%-50% rise in Q-Pack numbers even in this current year.
Sure. Well, that's helpful. If I understand that right, given that the Kissan and the Horlicks volumes will also come in, plus the ice cream sales that have been pushed to 1Q, do you stick to your earlier guidance of maintaining a 20%-25% growth in your thin packs?
Yeah, with the addition of Polypack thin wall facility getting into production by August, probably we thought of June, July, but probably it will go into July, August. That will also be adding numbers for the street boxes and other products. If not the ice cream, we might miss the ice cream season, but other product sales will be adding the numbers from July, August onwards. We are still confident that we will be aiming at 20% volume growth in Food and FMCG at thin wall also, apart from a good jump of 30%-40% in Q-Packs.
Sure, sir. Secondly, sir, on your paint segment, we have seen that sluggishness over many quarters now. Except for Grasim, what's your expectation for the next year from your existing clients?
See, our Grasim plants have gone into production now, and current convention, if things go as well, they are very close to their projections. They were mentioning two plants to contribute about 4,000 tons for the year. Now currently, this month, I would say in the month of April, May, I would say in May, we are almost about 200-250 tons of sale we could achieve with them. If the same trend goes or improves, we may be able to reach 3,000-4,000 tons of sales to Aditya Birla Group in the current financial year, which was hardly anything last year. Last year, March, we made hardly maybe 100-200 tons all put together. But steadily from April, the sales are in the range of 200-250 tons, at least 200 tons.
It may pick up as they also improve their actual productivity. Also, Mahad plant will get into production from November, October, November. Probably last months of the year, Mahad also will contribute to some numbers. We are still confident we will be in the range of 3,000-4,000 tons. At least 3,000 tons for sure is what I am expecting from ABG, which is almost 8%-9% of our total volume.
Sure. My question was in terms of your existing clients, excluding Grasim. What is your expectation of growth for those? We have been seeing falling volumes from those clients for past many quarters. What is your expectation there?
There are two reasons. One of the major drops in our volumes is because we let go some of the small paint companies last year, and we are not pursuing those orders because of high competition and pricing, low pricing. Purposefully, we are using those capacities for our Q-Packs where we have better value addition. That is one of the conscious decisions why we have taken a hit in the paint segment. Also, in the case of our major client, Asian Paints, last year numbers were better in the Q2, Q3, and Q4 because we have developed low weight containers first time, and we were given the entire volumes, or if not entire volumes, majority of the volumes during the Q3 and Q4, which now been developed by other competitors also.
Their volumes have just started shared, and in the Q3 and Q4 of the current financial year, those numbers look negative in the sense we have lost sale. That is one of the reasons why our overall paint numbers are negative, because when compared to Asian Paints, all other paint sales put together will not even be one-third of what Asian Paints contribute to us. When Asian Paints Q3 and Q4 numbers have fallen, we got hit. That fall is mainly because of this thin wall molds were now shared. The volumes are shared between all other competitors also. That advantage we did not have this year. That is one of the reasons why there is a dip in the paint volumes.
Sure. So that's helpful. Last question on the pharma packaging side. So how much more time do you expect for the customer audits to get completed and your commercial supply to start for all the products that you have been developing? Then what would be your revenue expectations, possibly this year and possibly over the next two years as well?
Yeah, I'm really happy the way we are getting the response for our pharma packaging facility. Actually, the facility, I also request all of you on this call to come and visit our plant to see how world-class facilities we have set up, and those facilities are having impeccable hygienic conditions that are required by all the pharma companies across the world, I would say. I'm also very glad that unlike others who have typically bottles and caps, we have come out with three product range. That is canisters, EV t ubes, that is effervescent tablet tubes, and tablet containers and caps.
So all these three range is giving us a very good advantage when our marketing people approach a client, because they generally buy these three products from three different sources, and there's always a conflict of matching volumes or quality issues and audits, several audits they have to do. So now in one go, they will be finding one company which is giving all three major packaging needs of a company. Apart from that, we have added In-Mold Labeling for EV t ubes for the first time in the country, which is giving us an excellent advantage. Wherever we went and submitted or showcased our IML capabilities, there's a positive response. Actually, now the commercial sales are happening in a reasonably good manner in EV t ubes, even in the month of April and May.
In the month of May, at least I can comment, we crossed 5 lakh EV tube sales. Things can improve further because there are so many other products under development. So the advantage of IML in EV t ubes is very evident, and we are in a position to exploit that situation to our advantage, because none of our competitors as of today, though they are there in the field for the last five to six years, have set up the IML capabilities. Even the setup, they couldn't give the quality that is demanded by the clients. So we are first people to break the ice in IML EV t ubes, and that is going to give us an edge, I'm sure, not only in Indian market but also exports that are available.
Coming to the canisters, I told you all last quarter also that we are introducing canisters that are with laser marking and single piece. Whereas the competition that is there in the country today are two-piece with a printed paper wrapped on it, which can cause ink digression into the medicine and various pharma companies are having issues with that. With our laser marking, that problem is solved. Being a single piece, the risk of opening of a canister is completely eliminated. With this USP, even canisters, we are finding very good response. Already three, four companies have taken, even I don't want to name the companies, some of the top-notch company in the country also has taken up our stability test. Those tests might end up sometime in July, August, and hopefully commercial production and good numbers can start for the canisters from then.
Coming to the bottles and caps, the regular bottles and caps, we already have Indian top players like Akums and other two, three companies started picking up for the domestic market needs. Small volumes are happening, but very big companies in pharma have already taken up stability tests. They are so big, the inquiries, that even if out of three, four who have so far visited us and visiting us soon, even couple of them decide, or two, three of them decide on the numbers, what they have indicated, our capacities will be almost filled by that time.
Probably it may take six months because of stability tests, sample evaluation, and all that. We will be submitting some of them are readily available in our molds. Some of them, new molds have to be made, and three months down the line, we give the samples, and then they take another three to four months. Hopefully by third quarter of this financial year, we will be running our pharma to a reasonably good extent capacity utilization, something around 70%-80%. That can yield, at that stage, probably around INR 2 crore-INR 3 crore turnover per month.
Taking all this into account for the current year, for six months, I'm not looking at big numbers, but for the next six months, the numbers can start improving. A full year, we have kept a target close to INR 20 crore for this current year. Next year it can easily double, because all these clients will be going in a smooth way and supplies will be just happening without any hindrance and new clients will be added. Looking at the kind of demand and traction we could create, probably during that period at the Q3, Q4, we have to take a decision about expanding our capacities. However, I'll keep that to be reviewed during the Q3 time, when we come off Q4.
Sure, sir. I think this is very helpful. Thanks a lot for answering my questions and wish you all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Jenish Karia with Antique Stock Broking. Please go ahead.
Yes. Thank you for the opportunity. First is a record-keeping question. If you can just help us with the segment-wise and IML-wise volume and revenue number for the quarter and full year.
Yeah. IML more or less stagnating around 64% for the last year and this year also. Coming to segment-wise, volumes, paints have dipped in the Q4 by 9%. Lubricants are stagnant. Food and FMCG also down by 10% compared to the previous year Q4. Q-Pack is up by 75%. Total overall growth volume compared to Q4 is flat, just 0.5%. But in the Food and FMCG together, along with Q-Pack, the growth is 31%. Ultimately, the total volumes are flat, just up by 4x, 5x . That is the breakup between the sectors compared to Q4-Q4.
And sir, in revenue terms?
Full year. And for the full year?
Yeah.
Paints are down by 6.7%. Lubes are up by 3.4%. Food and FMCG, 6.9%. Q-Pack by 88%. Overall growth is 4.85%.
Okay. Sir, similar numbers in revenue terms, if you can help us.
Sorry?
If you can help us with the similar numbers in revenue terms. These are volume numbers, right?
In revenue terms, it is all because of the raw material. Anyway, for paints, it is down by 15% for the full year. Then lubricants also down by 5.6%. Food and FMCG down by 0.17%. Q-Pack up by 70%. Total minus 4%. Because basically, when the raw material prices fell considerably from INR 110-INR 95, we passed on the pricing advantage to whatever raw material price to consumer and our clients. Hence, the revenues always look in tandem with the raw material pricing.
Okay. That is helpful, sir. Sir, next, I just wanted to confirm that you mentioned in fourth quarter, we did 100, 200 metric tons of volume for Grasim, right?
Yes.
What would be the volume of our pharma segment in the fourth quarter?
In the fourth quarter of this last year, you mean completed year?
Yeah, fourth quarter FY 2024.
Only in the fourth quarter, sometime in February, we started some commercial production. The capacity is, per quarter, around 400 tons, we can say. More or less, most of the machines are erected and commercial production started in January-Feb. But the numbers are yet to pick up. From April, May, we are seeing the numbers picking up now.
Okay. That's helpful. Sir, next is on the volume growth and the margin. Despite 0% volume growth for the quarter, our margins for the fourth quarter reached INR 39 per kg. Is it because of the pharma just running for two months, or there is something that we are missing out? Grasim was also a smaller volume, pharma was also a smaller volume, but still we achieved an INR 39 per kg margin compared to the nine-month earlier average of INR 35, INR 36. Any comments on that?
Yeah. The improvement is mainly because of increase in sale of Q-Packs, which contribute around INR 43- INR 45 per kg, compared to paint packs which are below our average. It is somewhere around INR 30-INR 35. We are now using more of the capacity for Q-Packs after paint capacities. Machines that are meant for paint are being utilized for our Q-Packs. They are not very great like Food and FMCG, but definitely better than paint. That is where we are able to get a better EBITDA per kg. Some annual discounts of raw material also added about a rupee to the benefit of this quarter.
That's helpful, sir. Next is on the capacity consolidation that we are doing. How much of the benefit will flow to the EBITDA? How much of the overhead will we save? How should we look at the consolidation exercise? Is it just rationalization of capacity, or will there be some benefit, which in monetary terms, which will accrue?
Definitely the consolidation is going to help the company in controlling the costs, even getting the value of the land and assets back into the company for utilization. I can't quantify that now, but definitely it is going to be considerable because Unit 2 used to be a fairly big unit with about 10, 12 machines, and those machines have been now scattered to Vizag and other plants of Hyderabad. That unit is more or less near to the closure. The second unit of Unit 6 is basically a printing unit. That's where the printing happens. Unfortunately, due to space constraint, we were doing printing at that location, we are doing printing at Sultanpur, and then die cutting is happening at our unit at Annaram. Then the die cut pieces of IML have to be transferred more to Sultanpur, and also to Daman and other locations.
All this is causing several locations are causing lack of accountability, some more wastage in terms of curling or in terms of rejection. Now that at Sultanpur, its central unit, we are going to set up all the printing machinery, including die cutting, storage, and distribution. It is all going to be under one roof. It is a three-storied building, where from top to down, there is a logistically controlled way of manufacturing the IML labels, which is going to save enormous, if not enormous, sizable amount of wastage reduction. Cost reduction would be expected from that operation. By curbing Unit 2 into Sultanpur, Vizag, and Hyderabad, we are letting go one overheads of entire team there because the same teams in these three units are now taking care of that production.
Unit 4 is another small unit which has been running for mainly Asian Paints' local Hyderabad needs. That is too small a unit to have head of plant and quality and all other people around. Those savings also will come from sometime towards the end of this year, because that we are planning to do at the end. First is Unit 2, which is completed. Unit 6 is printing. The integration of printing will happen by July, August, maximum in six months from now. Then we will take up the integration of Unit 4 to dissolve between these two units. Our Unit 1 at Annaram and Sultanpur will become two major plants, which will be absorbing these three plants.
Yeah. Thank you for an elaborate explanation. Just one last question. Could you reiterate your guidance in terms of CapEx for the next two years? How much capacity will be added and your volume growth for two years and the EBITDA target that we are doing?
Yeah. We are hopeful that the EBITDA should cross INR 40 again, in this current financial year, up from INR 37.7, which we could achieve last year. We are hopeful that we will be in a position to come above INR 40 again because of two reasons. One is better capacity utilization at all the new plants which were just started three, four months ago. Second is better product mix. More and more of Q-Packs and Food and FMCG and even pharma that will contribute handsomely to the EBITDA, should take us above INR 40. Given these figures, we are expecting a volume growth from 4.8% to at least 15%+. ABG alone would be giving us at least 8%- 9%, 7%- 10%, let us say, depending upon how they shape up their market share. They themselves will be giving us a good jump in volume.
Our Q-Pack will continue to give us good numbers, and pharma is adding. Food and FMCG seems to be doing better than last year, because as you said, the summer is very wild this year, and consumption of ice creams is reasonably good compared to last year. With that, probably we will be in a position to see a 15%+ growth in the volumes and improvement in EBITDA to the tune of at least INR 40. That is our estimates.
The CapEx adding and capacity additions that we will be doing in tonnage?
See, capacity addition will be based on need. Actually, huge capacities have been added in the last two, three years, you are all aware. Those capacities are set to go into production this year. Only Mahad plant is to be created in this year. That being a smaller plant, probably the investment will be in the tune of around INR 15 crore in the first year. Later on, we will be adding other machines. As of this year, after land being already acquired, initial investments would be to the tune of INR 15 crore. But investments in pharma, investments in other balancing equipment, mainly for IML and Panipat, thin wall. Even in Panipat, we have a plan to start some domestic pharma products because of some demand indicated by some big clients. If those plans happen, again, there will be investments, but they won't be as much as last year's.
Last year it was INR 140 crore. Probably we may still have at least half of the investment plan for the current year, which again, depends upon what we have to do in pharma. If pharma takes off in a big way and then we need to quickly invest there, probably it may go up. As of today, we are looking at about INR 70 crore investment possibility in this current year.
Okay. Thank you for patiently answering all my questions and all the best .
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Prathamesh Dahake with Motilal Oswal. Please go ahead.
Hello. I'm audible?
Yeah.
Sir, I just wanted to ask, as of FY 2024, what was the total capacity that we have installed for Asian Paints? What was the capacity utilization of that? How do you see capacities being added at Asian Paints level and the volumes going forward?
See, there is nothing called capacity only meant for Asian Paints because all the plants, all the machines are fungible. However, as you said, there are plants which are mainly meant for Asian Paints, I would say is Satara. That is where only Asian Paints products are being produced. Whereas in Vizag, we have now Castrol, we have Valvoline, we have several cashew company square packs, edible oil like Gemini being produced there. So now Vizag has become a plant which is producing for several clients. Of course, Asian Paints would be more than 50% of its capacity, but it is not totally meant for Asian Paints. Similarly, at Mysore, we have now cashew products, we have some edible oil products also being started production.
So given all our plants, only Satara plant, we can install a capacity of about- what is Satara, I say? 7 million? 5,000? 5,000 tons is more or less meant for Asian Paints. The capacity utilization there is hardly around 60%. Last year it was only 56%, if we precise. That is the only area where we have under-capacity utilization because we do not have any big clients in and around that area. Other than that, other plants are fungible capacities where we can either produce lubricant containers, we can produce square packs, depending upon the capacity availability and the nearness to the clients.
What was the contribution from Asian Paints in terms of volume and revenue in this year?
Contribution from Asian Paints is sizable. They continue to be our major client. Almost 12,000 tons, I guess, would be from them. That is almost one-third of our sales.
Okay. F&F involved in this quarter has been a bit soft. What are the areas or end segments which you felt did not receive traction as compared to what we would have planned?
Yeah, the volumes of ice cream are not picked up till March. They started late, but they are good in April onwards. Up till March, generally we used to see a good traction in March itself. But this year in March, the numbers were not so positive. Another reason was that in the case of Food and FMCG, the products like Kissan and Horlicks, which we have developed more than seven, eight months ago, were going through various trials and corrections. Ultimately only in May we started volume, more than a million pieces were sold, and Horlicks also started picking up numbers now. Those molds which were made, capacities that were created were not used till April, May. That is one of the reasons why the Q4 Food and FMCG are a little bit low.
Understood, sir. Going forward, apart from ice creams, Kissan, what are the product categories that we are planning and do we have customers onboarded for the same or it will come as and when the capacities at Daman and Panipat come up?
Certainly, as in the capacity set Panipat, Daman is now deferred for a while. We are concentrating on creating thin wall capacity at Panipat now. Panipat will be catching up with the festive season with sweet boxes and other products that are meant for various food applications. That will be starting from July, max August. That will be the time when we will be seeing some numbers coming in from Panipat. I would say next financial year only, that is the next season starting from March, April, we will find good numbers coming from north.
That will be a new addition altogether, because our distance is a very big negative for customers who are in the north, because their numbers and requirements happen very fast, and our transport cost and transport delays can impact them in the season. That is why they prefer nearby suppliers. By setting up a plant in north, we hope that this advantage will go and we will be able to gain a market share there.
Okay. One last question, sir. Sir, in paint segment, apart from the existing clients, do we have any plans of onboarding new paints or new paint customer or adding capacities within the existing customers?
See, as and when the paint companies are moving towards IML, we are ready to take them. In fact, very recently we added one client in Hyderabad itself, who has shifted completely his product range into IML. When they move to IML, our capacity utilization is better, our realization per kg is better, and they also get a superior product. That is how we want to add. We don't want to add clients who are at very low price range, and they go for screen printing or even HTL. We are trying to avoid such low cost and low-end clients in the paint segment.
Okay. Understood, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Arnab Deb, an individual investor. Please go ahead.
Sir, good evening. Can you hear me?
Yes. I can hear you.
Sir, in Q3 you had guided volume growth for FY 2025 for paints around 12%-14%. Do you maintain that guidance?
Yeah. We are looking at double-digit growth because of the ABG's addition, which itself should give us 8%-10% growth. Having assured of that ABG, even if the other segment, Asian Paints and others remain at 2%-3% or 5% growth level, we have one or two major additions in the IML segment, which is giving us some other growth numbers as a new addition. With all this, we should be in a position to reach 10%-12% growth in paint this year.
Sir, one more question, sir. In terms of medium to long-term strategy, sir, are we clear on we want to play around these four categories of paint, food, lubes, and pharma?
See, actually, if you ask me, our vision is to move more and more towards pharma and Food and FMCG. Not that we let go paint and lubes, but wherever the pricing pressure is there, wherever the decoration technique is still age-old screen printing or labeling, we wish to move towards IML. Certainly, value addition is one thing which is driving our decisions, and we see a huge opportunity in pharma. Let me explain. In pharma, I have seen in the last six months of our interaction with the pharma companies and their packaging departments, the feedback I got from our marketing and even in some of the calls I participated, there is no agile player like Mold-Tek in pharma packaging as of today. I don't want to name them because they're all there for quite some time, and some of them are MNCs.
They are doing good job at their own pace and in their own strategies. But when we see agility, what I mean by agility is new product development. Somebody need to quickly bring in a new concept in the market. The pace at which our established competitors are doing, I notice, is not really praiseworthy. That is where Mold-Tek can show a difference. That is where we are trying to pitch in and talk to our clients that if you guys not only forget about your bottles and caps, if you have some other new needs coming in, you can bank on us because we develop the molds, we develop the 3D concepts, we develop the design concept useful to your application. That is where we step in, right from product concept to mold design, mold manufacturing, and if necessary, if there is an IML in it, IML manufacturing.
That strength is what still we are going to use as an USP to penetrate into pharma packaging. I was not so positive when we started six, seven months ago into pharma. But today, after interactions with the clients and what I see from my marketing people, there is more and more demand for new small variations. Need not be a complete innovation of earth to moon. It is basically a small minor variations, but that require a mold change, that require a new mold to be developed quickly. So that ability in Mold-Tek is what I am sure can be a USP going forward in pharma packaging. So in my view, as of today at least, I can state that going forward, we will be shifting more and more of our energies and more focus on this high value-add clients like pharma and food.
Okay, sir. Thank you, sir, and best of luck.
Thanks.
Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Rakesh Wadhwani with Monarch AIF. Please go ahead.
Am I audible?
Yes, Rakesh.
Hi, sir. Thank you very much for the opportunity. Sir, first question with respect to the paint segment. Last year, we had witnessed the issue of some maintenance work with respect to Satara plant. That is why the volumes were impacted, one of the reasons. That plant has come back to normalcy?
Yes. It has come back to normalcy, but one of the reasons why our numbers have dipped in Asian Paints I explained just now, is that last year, Q3, we have developed thin wall, that is lightweight containers for Asian Paints, and those molds were developed by us in the beginning. Hence, we got better volumes in the Q3 and Q4, which later on were even manufactured by our other competitors at different locations. So when we come to this Q3 and Q4, those numbers have been distributed among four or three competitors at every location. So that is one of the reasons why we see a dip in sales to Asian Paints in the last two quarters.
Okay. And sir, the Asian Paints has come up with a new product, NeoBharat Latex Paint advertised with Virat Kohli. That product has been developed by us?
What is the name? Sorry.
Asian Paints has come up with a new product, Neo Bharat Latex Paint, with advertisement done by Virat Kohli. Has that product has been made by Mold-Tek?
I am not very sure because last one month I have been traveling. Whether it happened recently or- Can you check with Rajkumar? Virat Kohli, if there is a new product launch for Asian Paints. We are supplying? I will check and let you know.
Okay. Sir, coming to the pharma segment. One of the key players in the pharma segment that you have also mentioned in the previous calls, Shriji Polymers, Triveni Polymers. Their revenues are in the categories of INR 400 crore- INR 500 crore, and in the last three, four years, as you mentioned, they have grown strongly 25%, 30% because of the shift from China and because of the in-country demand. But at the end, their sales are INR 500 crore, and there are other small companies which are sub-INR 100 crore companies. There are not many big companies in this segment. Any reason for that?
See, that is not an easy line to enter. One big barrier is the technology, the hygienic way of manufacturing practices that are being audited almost like an FDA level, but of course, done by Indian companies. That requires very high-end manufacturing facilities. That is one. And consistently maintaining that facility for various audits clients come and do is something which not everybody can do. That is why this is between some 5- 10 companies all across India are able to establish and run. So Shriji and Triveni, Pravesha, which is a house company of Aurobindo Pharma, they are three big players. And there are Gopaldas, Doctor Pack, Biri. Like that, there are about another seven, eight companies which are in the range of INR 100 crore- INR 300 crore turnover.
All put together, there is a demand beyond INR 4,000 crore- INR 5,000 crore and the INR 3,000 crore, INR 4,000 crore approximately, and growing at at least 7%- 8% every year. And with Indian pharma also adopting DMF standards for their products, then the numbers can shoot up very quickly. And as you might have noticed, Mankind Pharma has made an announcement saying that even their local Indian packaging will be meeting the DMF standards. Like this, once the big company starts, others have to follow suit. If that happens, I don't know when it will happen, but over the next few years, and then the numbers can shoot up. More than 20%, 25% growth can be anticipated.
We are in a sweet spot getting into that in the correct time, and with our strength of mold development, design, and concept development, we'll be able to make things faster for our clients to develop, especially new concepts. We will be much faster than even the established players. That is where the USP we are looking at.
And sir, one last question from my side. Why there is an increase in working capital in this financial year? Because the cash flow from operation has drastically come down versus last year. Any reason?
If you look at what we borrowed is only INR 40 crore, but what we invested is INR 140 crore. Okay? It was not that money is fungible. We were using those working capital funds which were available for capital needs indirectly. When the capital needs were met, automatically, the working capital needs are In fact, the monies that have been collected in the QIP and all were kept in working capital account to save the interest. So when these monies were used, the working capital is coming to the natural level. But today, even at that level, our drawing power is close to INR 100 crore. But our utilization is hardly INR 69, INR 70 crore. So there is still a big gap of unutilized working capital. You understand?
Okay. Yes, got it. Sir, thank you very much and best wish always. Thank you.
Thanks.
Thank you. A reminder to all the participants that you may press star on one to ask a question. Ladies and gentlemen, as there are no further questions, we have reached the end of question and answer session. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Thank you very much. Thanks to everybody for being a part of the conversation today. In particular, I want to thank Nirmal Bang for arranging this con call and to the operator. Thank you very much, and wish you all a very great day ahead. Thank you. Bye.
Thank you. On behalf of Nirmal Bang Equities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.