Please note that this conference is being recorded, and I've handed the conference over to Mr. Nilesh Patil. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thanks, Neha. On behalf of ICICI Securities, we welcome you all to Q4 and FY24 results conference call of Bajaj Consumer Care Limited. We have with us Mr. Jaideep Nandi, Managing Director, Mr. Dilip Kumar Maloo, Chief Financial Officer, and Mr. Richard D'Souza, AVP of Finance. Now I hand over the call to management team for their initial comments on quarterly and full-year performance, and then we will open the floor for question-and-answer sessions. Thanks, and over to you, sir.
Thanks, Nilesh. Good morning, and thank you all for participating in this Q4 earnings call. L et me take you through the performance of the company for the quarter and 12 months ended 31st March 2024, before we open the floor for questions. T he consolidated sales for the company for FY2024 stood at INR 968 crore, with a 2% value growth and 6.6% volume growth. The two-year, full-year CAGR is 5.7% on a consolidated basis. The company delivered consolidated quarterly sales of INR 234.2 crore, 4.9% lower than the high base of last year of corresponding quarter. The two-year CAGR for the quarter was +4.4%. The gross margin for FY2024 on stand alone basis stood at 54.3%, an expansion of 91 basis points, while for the quarter the gross margin grew by 62 basis points to 54.7%.
FY24 EBITDA stood at INR 162.6 crores, which is 11% growth over last year, while margin stood at 17.1%, an increase of 151 basis points over the same period last year. For FY24, PATS stood at INR 158.8 crores, which is a growth of 13.6% over the same period last year. In the business, in general trade, the coconut and amla portfolio previewed their growth momentum across geographies, with growth growing in double digits in general trade. This shows that a stock correction was undertaken in Q4 to ease investments from channel partners. This is a one-time activity, which will be implemented now for better execution in the market. Loyalty programs, which were started, got scaled up to 11,000 outlets in Q4, contributing to 51% sales in urban. Program outlets delivered 20% delta growth over non-program outlets in retail.
We started a pilot to use geotagging and fencing technology in the urban outlets in Q4. This has already started showing signs of better execution in retail. This initiative will be extended across the country in phases. Rural saw a lower decline as compared to the previous three quarters and outperformed urban for the first time in FY2024. Focus effects, again in GT, on penetrating PATS 45 ml ADHO led to 2x increase in distribution for this PAT. This will be a big driver for both distribution and penetration across the country in the coming year. We have also engaged with a partner to enhance the quality of coverage in rural in key states of UP and Bihar, identifying high-potential villages in less than 5,000 population, and restructure our coverage to service these markets better, as well as optimize our cost to service.
The Modern trade business continued to deliver strong performance in Q4, achieving a revenue of INR 226.2 crore. Share of overall business has doubled from 12% in FY21 to 24% in FY24. Modern trade business grew by 22% in FY24 with portfolio expansion, especially through the CNO and new launches driving the growth. ADHO continued to grow in market share across all key accounts. Collaboration with Reliance Retail, with print ads and out-of-home activations, increased our market presence. Specific products launched, such as 300 ml CNO in Reliance and D-Mart, saw good traction. Promoter-led activations for AD serum, Almond Drops serum, and Almond Drops shampoo in Reliance helped scale up the entire Almond Drops range of hair and skincare products. e-commerce registered a growth of 26% for the quarter and 27% for full-year FY24, supported by expansion into new platforms like Myntra and e-commerce platforms Blinkit, Swiggy, Instamart, and Zepto.
ADHO continued its strong performance, led by growth across all pack sizes due to scale-up of e-commerce and quick commerce platforms. Coconut portfolio and Almond Drops hair and skincare range saw substantial growth and gained market share across platforms. The canteen and restaurant channels, especially the central police canteen, registered a growth of 18% in FY2024. International business delivered a strong growth of 24% in FY2024, with Middle East and Africa registering a growth of 11%, driven by a revival in wholesale and modern trade channels in UAE. Saudi Arabia increased its presence in key modern trade accounts such as LuLu and Nesto. Top line in Nepal doubled in Q4 FY2024, with both ADHO and CNO sales stabilizing at a high trajectory. The rest of the world exports achieved a 22% growth in FY2024.
New markets such as Japan, Trinidad and Tobago are being serviced for the first time, while focused markets like Malaysia, U.K., and U.S.A. continue to perform well. Bangladesh, which has been a focused market for the company, reported a revenue growth of 68% in FY24. The transition to own distribution, that is over and above what we had done the year before with transition into our own manufacturing, was smoothly completed. The transition of own distribution was completed in January 2024, with all necessary infrastructure such as warehouses, logistics, and sales teams in place. Two new products, 100% pure glycerin as well as 100% pure olive oil, which was launched specifically for the Bangladesh market, saw good initial consumer traction, and we are planning to add more new launches in the coming years.
In India, at a brand level, ADHO grew by 0.9% in volume terms, driven by large PATS sales in urban markets in FY24. During Q4, we modified key elements of the marketing mix in small and medium PATS to counter the sluggishness in rural markets. We should see the impact of these interventions in FY25. We continue to fortify the brand with strong media across TV, digital, print, and on-ground activation, as well as increase investment in visibility across these channels. This measure helped us improve our market share sequentially in Q4 by 25 basis points. In Q4 FY24, our digital marketing initiatives for Almond Drops reached 5.2 crore customers through programmatic advertising, influencer marketing, and community engagement. We'll continue to drive rural market penetration through LUPs in ADHO, along with regional marketing initiatives, while strategic interventions started in Q4 will continue to improve distribution in FY25.
Digital marketing campaigns to reposition ADHO for new-age customers and premiumization through new variants, which are being planned, will also drive future growth for the brand. Almond Drops Hair and Skincare range registered a strong growth of 22% in Q4 and 16% in FY24, supported by the scale-up of shampoo, conditioner, and lotion. Bajaj Almond Drops Summer Lotion was launched in March to cater to seasonal needs and preferences of consumers. Shampoo and lotions were both supported with sampling and digital media across modern trade and e-commerce platforms. We continue to deliver strongly on our portfolio diversification. Contribution of products other than ADHO has increased from 5% in FY21 to 17% in FY24. New products of this contribute to 15% of the overall sales in FY24. Bajaj 100% Pure coconut oil is scaling up well with its market share and distribution expanding steadily across markets and all channels.
Market share in pure coconut oil improved by 65 basis points during the year, especially in traditional stronger markets of north as well as in our focused market of west. Overall distribution increased by more than 150,000 outlets, and overall weighted distribution improved by 270 basis points on a net basis. In Q4, both TVC and OTT media campaigns were implemented for Maharashtra for coconut. The share of OIS in the coconut category for Maharashtra had reached 34%. In addition, we partnered with key modern trade outlets and launched exclusive in-store offers and out-of-home media campaigns, which saw good response. We continue to expand our presence in amla oil. Bajaj Sarso Amla has scaled up well during the year, especially in rural markets, and the performance has been in line with expectations. We also partnered with key e-commerce chains to launch exclusive multi-pack offer Bajaj Brahmi Amla.
The Bajaj ethnic range has been expanded with the national launch of Bajaj Gulab Jal, which was completed in Q4. The response is promising across markets. Hyperlocal BTL activities to promote Bajaj 100% pure henna is being test marketed in UP and saw good traction. We'll scale up the model in other parts of the country in FY2025. The product has also done well in key modern trade outlets with a double-digit market share in select chains. Advertising and promotion spends for the quarter amounted to INR 40.2 crore, which is 17.4% of our sales. For FY2024, A&P spending stood at INR 160 crore, which is 16.8% of sales. We are strongly committed to investing in ADHO and new brands with an increased focus on digital media to better align with changing preferences of customers.
The prices of LLP have been range-bound, with, on one hand, witnessing correction because of lower crude prices, while on the other hand, prices fluctuating due to volatility in the Middle East. Prices for refined mustard oil remain flat or weak, reflecting a balanced global demand and supply equilibrium in seed oils and a positive outlook for crop production. The prices of coconut have been hardening, and we are taking corrective price action schemes to protect our margins. Multiple cost-saving initiatives in both raw and packing materials through a combination of optimization of specs, alternate vendor development, development of alternate packing materials helped reduce the cost by INR 6 crore, a saving of INR 6 crore in the year. Smart manufacturing and automation initiatives helped improve productivity by 8% in Guwahati and 34% in our Paonta Sahib brands.
Water conservation initiatives continue, reuse of water schemes, etc., resulting in water consumption per liter of product by 28% in Guwahati, 50% in Paonta Sahib. Energy optimization efficiency improvements led to reduction of specific energy consumption by 19% in Guwahati. Machine automation has reduced laminate wastage by 14% in Guwahati and 35% in Paonta Sahib. In HR, focus has been to upgrade and retain talent and create a robust employee pipeline. Close to 8,000 learning hours were locked in by 89% of our employees during the year. We are certified as a great place to work for a sixth year in a row with consistent increase in score over the last six years, and this year the score being at 86. We believe that the structural tailwinds in the FMCG sector due to rising disposable income and per capita income, rapid urbanization, growing consumer aspiration, and optimization will continue.
All this points to a multi-year growth opportunity in beauty and personal care. To leverage this opportunity as a part of our next phase of growth strategy, we have shortlisted relevant FMCG categories over and above what we have already discussed for an immediate to medium-term pay. This has been done through a robust attractiveness and right-to-prioritization framework. We looked at 130 categories, and after that, we have finalized the last three categories that we would like to invest in. While our diversification journey has started well, we plan to further increase the contribution of our new products and traditional range.
As I said, we are part of a phase two strategy to increase it to 40% in the next five years, leveraging the brand equity in specific categories to, again, reiterate, such as Bajaj brands in hair oils, traditional Indian beauty categories in ethnic range, and scaling up the Almond Drops equity in hair and skin entry, as well as diversifying into the new tech categories just mentioned. In addition to activating the new product funnel, we have also formulated now the M&A guardrails to identify apt target companies for winning opportunity, which we have now started actively pursuing. We are also investing behind building strong execution capabilities in GT to transition to a multi-brand, multi-category organization and improve retailer and customer engagement. We have engaged a leading consultant recently to refresh our current go-to-market strategy, including optimization, optimizing town-level sales models, sales and planning processes, and automation.
We have already initiated the diagnostic work, and we'll start the test piloting in two key states from the beginning of Q3 before rolling it out to the rest of the country. We also plan to continue investments and continue the growth momentum in the under-indexed international market. The journey started in Q3 has already started showing traction with good growth in the last two years. The ambition is to increase the salience from the current 5% in FY24 to 20% over the next five years. Several growth levers would be employed to drive this: strengthening local operations, investment in select geographies, launching localized products, and exploring opportunities for organic growth.
We remain optimistic for FY25 due to these various factors, including an above-normal monsoon, favorable natural oil conditions, including clear green fruits in rural demand, while we continue to optimize and diversify and [premiumize] our portfolio along with better on-ground execution of strategic initiatives. With this, I end my opening remarks and open the session for questions. Thank you.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchscreen telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use hands up while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. The first question is from the line of Viraj from SiMPL. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Just a couple of questions. First, in the slide, you talked about the rural trend improving, the decline. I f you can just give some perspective, how has the trend played out over the last three quarters, and what do you expect in coming quarters from the rural segment? That's one. Second is, in the GT, we talked about the inventory provision. I f you can just provide more color in terms of the reason behind that and the primary sales trend, so how has that been, and how does it compare versus the secondary sales trend in GT?
Okay. J ust before I answer your question, there has been no inventory provision. It's just that the secondary sales has been much higher in this quarter, about INR 12 crore higher in this quarter over primary sales because there was some accumulation of inventory we saw in primary. So overall, in the year, there has been a correction of about INR 13, 14 crore, of which about INR 12 crore was taken in Q4 itself so that we start the year with a much lower distributor stock. T hat is basically what has been done. There has been no provisioning of any inventory.
Sorry. I meant by inventory correction, what I mean, very.
That is there because we wanted to ensure that our secondary sales remain higher than primary so that the earlier year that we had started with higher distributor stock holds down substantially. T hat is something what we wanted a nd in this quarter, we did majority of the correction. We continue to do the corrections throughout the year, but this quarter has been the bulk of the correction. T hat's where the secondary was higher by about INR 12 crore over last year. T his is over primary sales. T his is as far as that part is concerned. But to answer your question back, so rural, if you look at this quarter, clearly we saw that our performance in rural was far superior than urban. I mean, this is the first part of quite a long time where rural do better than urban.
You clearly see the green shoots in terms of demand coming in from what we talk of our northern states where typically rural is always under pressure, has been under pressure last two, three quarters. Clearly see green shoots coming up there. Other thing, obviously, is also our own intervention that we have done specifically for the rural, whether be it in terms of execution. We have been working in terms of working with our if you look at these villages, I just spoke of it in my opening remarks. Looking at some of these villages, especially we have started the pilot in Bhandara to see what is the best cost to serve as far as villages below 5,000 is concerned. So there, quite a bit of improvement has already happened, and we see that clearly scalable across the various states.
We have also done some interventions, which most of it will happen this year in terms of the NUP, especially in ADHO. Obviously, the other products will only supplement, but in ADHO, so there's some intervention. I don't want to talk of it right now because we will see that it's happening in Q2. Not so much in Q1, but in Q2, large intervention in terms of NUP will come up. W e'll talk of it as it comes end of Q1 versus Q2 somewhere there. That intervention will basically address a lot of the gaps that we are seeing. One of the big gaps that we had was one of our LEPs was clearly getting in terms of price proposition was not becoming very attractive. Price to ML proposition was not effective.
W e have done a lot of cost reductions whereby the pack itself, the gross margin doesn't go up, but for the value, the cost of material does not go up. W e have done some corrections. We'll talk of it much later when actually we come up when I get the product out by, let's say, end of Q1 or early Q2. But as far as the proposition of the customer, it becomes extremely attractive. A lot of work was going on for the last 6-9 months, and now it has actually stabilized. It will come up in the next 2-3 months.
We are very, very confident that the rural economy is coming back and that some of our rural board execution, as well as market dimensions that we have got. I think we should be in a very good position in FY25 to plan it.
Primary sales trend in GT?
Yes. P rimary sales trend in GT is something that you are getting the picture because that's where this quarter, if you look at—I mean, CAGR, as I just told you, CAGR—we have had a positive CAGR. But overall, in this particular quarter over the last year, there has been a decline. But that we see is more a temporary decline. Urban was better. Rural was better. Urban was lower, but yeah, both had a decline. Rural had a very slight decline. Urban had a higher decline. If you look at the CAGR for rural, it is actually positive, even in.
Okay. T he traditional new products, right,? the coconut oil, almond oil .
I'll just need to come back for follow-up questions. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask questions. The next question is from the line of Anushka Chitnis from Arihant Capital. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity. My questions are actually related to the buyback which has been announced. In that being, there's about INR 166.5 crore of buyback. So what is the rationale and thought process behind that? A lso, how will that be funded because your balance sheet has around INR 23 crore of cash as of now? I would like to know if there is any participation of the promoter entity in this. That's all.
F irst and foremost, obviously, I mean, even if you including tax, etc. W e are talking of about INR 200 crore of outgoing. INR 166 crore plus tax and other financial costs to the agency. It comes to about INR 200 crore. We are sitting on INR 620 crore of cash. That in itself is not the same. It's just one-third of the cash that we have. I mean, it's 20% of our FY results and surplus. T his is just that amount. I n terms of cash coverage, we'll be funding it from our own balance sheet itself. Now, as far as the rationale is concerned, I think the rationale for buyback is pretty clear. We are looking at adding value to the shareholders' fund. ROE itself goes up as the capital goes down. T hat is clear to advantage.
I think there is clear and given the fact that the promoter will not participate, it clearly shows that there's a clear confidence that this business is now poised to grow. I think market conditions are also becoming macroeconomic conditions are now becoming positive. I think short-term is already showing green fruits. We'll see mid to long-term even better. I think all the levers that we have started pushing, obviously, all of them have gestation periods, and all of them are showing green fruits, whether be it international, whether be it your, let's say, the new channels, whether be it your new products, all of them are showing. I think we are at a right stage to exploit that a nd we think at our share prices, I think a buyback looks good.
T his also leaves us enough cash for us to look at, let's say, M&A opportunities, etc. I mean, we can obviously leverage ourselves for M&As, but I think there's enough opportunity even beyond that. Hello? Are you audible?
Yes, sir. You are.
Okay. Thank you.
Yes. The next question is from the line of Meher from Living Root Analytics. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. I just wanted to know, so the other expenses on a consolidated level have increased, whereas the ad spend has decreased as a percentage of revenue. What is the exact reason behind it?
A d spend. I've been talking of this. If you look at FY23.
M y question is that why has the other expenses increased whereas the ad spend has reduced? I s there any other cost component that we are missing?
T two very small things. One is a very small one of expenses on IT enablement that I am talking about, so that spend that we did. So one is a very small impact of that. A little larger impact of other expenses is what we have done as a strategic move is that we are now moving all our ISRs. We were there on distributor payroll. We have rationalized some of it, but we are now moving them into our own third-party. Most of the largest quite a few organizations have that. W e have seen a drastic reduction in our in terms of manpower attrition. Earlier, we used to have attritions when they were at the distributor payroll of about 40%. That has gone down to about 12% or so. So most of the cost in terms of our tax.
At the consolidated level, if you look at the cost, there is an investment that has happened in Bajaj Bangladesh, which is what we have done in terms of setting up operations, which should get normalized.
Okay. I n rural market, what kind of products do you see as a potential revenue driver for the company?
I think all the oils that you see have been going pretty well as far as the rural markets are concerned. I n ADHO, specifically, we have taken a lot of interventions, especially in the rural packs, which is right from sachet to the LUPs and some of the mid-packs and w e'll see all of that. I mean, we'll get into each intervention and detail at SKU level in future presentations in future of this call because a lot of these interventions are on way, etc., and I don't want to talk of it right here, but you can see already some of the results coming in. R ural ADHO is there. Obviously, coconut and amla, both of them have their own this thing. Amla, in fact, rural markets did well for us. The LUPs did well.
I think there is an opportunity for the large packs also to do well in rural in specific geographies, let's say, the larger markets of Punjab, Rajasthan, etc. T hat we see clearly being exploited. C oconut is an opportunity anyway we are seeing happening a nd coconut, the rapid scale-up that we have seen, it's a function of both, in fact, in all areas s o that's a good part. In the first year, most of the scale-up had happened mainly in modern trade, e-commerce, and urban markets. We are now seeing the penetration happening in rural markets. I think one of our growth strategies is that the depressed base that we have in rural comes back strongly. We have taken initiatives more to counter this, but now with the tailwinds coming in rural, I think we should be able to exploit it better.
International percentage of contribution to 20%.
W hich markets do we see as key potential growth drivers, and what kind of products are we trying to push in such markets?
Again, it's our traditional markets where we clearly see because those are also rural-heavy markets, whether be it in Bihar, whether be it in Madhya Pradesh, etc. We clearly.
I asked about the international market.
I nternational markets, at this moment, clearly, there are two focus geographies. T wo large focus geographies, which is Bangladesh, where we are scaling up. Continuous scaling up has happened. Growth has started happening. We are still far, more or less, under-leveraged than, let's say, what the market, our fair share of market, is seeing s o clearly, there is a large opportunity there. It will take some time, but the growth trajectory and the milestones that we have set up, I think we are doing pretty well. Middle East is another opportunity that we have, which we have been focusing on scaling up, and that growth scale clearly we see. Other markets like Nepal, etc., I mean, just more base corrections. W e have come to a good base, and that is something South Asia, Southeast Asia will remain. Rest of world, we are expanding our market penetration.
The number of countries we would want to go to, we have already expanded far more. One or two countries where we feel that even as an export model, we can leverage quite a bit just through some marketing interventions and that. There, we will be spending. Basically, what we have to look at is, as a company, we are just probably even 5% international. I mean, we have been talking of this for the last four years that we would not want to start international till we start getting our basics in India. We have already done that. Now, we invested in international two years back. It's scaling up well. I think this journey will continue. O n one side, we are looking at extending our portfolio beyond Almond Drops.
On the other side, looking at increasing our international presence at the same time.
Bangladesh and Middle East, on a combined basis, how much contribution is it to the international business?
As of today?
Yeah.
It is about 65% or so.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask questions. The next question is from the line of Tejas Shah from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, this is an extension of the previous question, participant's question only. We have a very aggressive target of five years on international, moving our contribution from 5%.
Hello? Am I audible?
Yes, sir.
I think Tejas Shah has dropped out, and I can't hear him.
Hello, Tejas? Hello? Due to no response from the current participants, our next question is from the line of Reshma Mehta from GreenEdge Wealth. Please go ahead.
Presentation basically talks about repositioning of ADHO and the premiumization. I f you can just elaborate on whether the repositioning has been done, what exactly is the repositioning, and also how have we premiumized this brand and what percentage of revenue for ADHO comes from the premium portfolio?
W e are doing it in two phases. At this moment, we are looking at repositioning ADHO with not too many parameters changing, but repositioning more for the new-age customers so rewrapping the brand. The second part of the portfolio, which is a more significant part of the change as far as the brand is concerned, is looking at putting in variants for the product. O bviously, ADHO in its own shape continues to be a very strong driver for hair fall, nourishment, and so on and so forth. But we see that there is an opportunity to have variants of ADHO, which will be at a little bit of a premium and addressing more needs than just pure hair fall. So that is something the work is already on. We have already a pilot plan in terms of where we want to do.
We are working with the agency, and this is something that we will be looking at by the end of the year or early next year, maybe 3-4 quarters, where we will be looking at launching of this brand.
Okay, sir.
I would not like to share the contributions that we expect out of that. We'll talk of it as we launch.
Okay, sir. Just to understand this, basically, the work is underway, and we have just started on this journey of premiumizing ADHO and the repositioning of the brand. Is that understanding correct?
T he first part, work has already started, and you will see the impact of it by this year itself. The other one, I think the concept, etc., in terms of where we want to go into all that is more or less over. The formulations are being worked on, and I think it will be about 3-4 quarters by the time we will end the launch.
All right. The second question is the margin profile of the company. O n a medium-term basis, where do you see the margin profile of the company settling in? C urrently, we are at around 16%-17%. Do we see that at around 20%? Is that doable, possible, considering the targets that we have for expanding international revenues and growing the non-ADHO portfolio?
W e continue to remain exactly what we have been stating for the last, let's say, 6 calls, which is basically we would like to remain at the 16%-18% because our targets of reaching those numbers that we have stated, both for the range beyond ADHO as well as the international market, we very, very clearly want to drive growth as far as this organization is concerned. We have obviously not talked too much in terms of inorganic growth because we have not yet seen anything on that in the company for the last decade, but that is something also we are actively pursuing. G iven that, 16%-18% is what we will keep it down between that for the next few years, and then we'll see how that number needs to move.
Got it. And a related question. T he non-ADHO portfolio, which contributes to around 17% of revenues, is that margin accretive, or is that still loss-making?
No, it is obviously margin accretive. The only thing is some of the brands, like digital brands, etc., is already coming to a bigger positive, and we are trying to rationalize. That's some of it we might fast-track. We might just slow down just to ensure we also balance our EBITDA. I mean, that is where it is. But all of them are pretty decent growth margins, and most of them are better.
Got it. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask questions.
If Tejas Shah is back, you can give him the opportunity. I don't know whether he is because he was midway in the question.
Okay, sir. Sure. I'll promote Tejas Shah now. The next question is from the line of Tejas Shah from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, sir. Am I audible now?
Yes, you are.
Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, just wanted to know if we approach the growth [lens] from NPDs versus the core portfolio, how should we think about growth splitting in the sense, at what rate do you believe core can continuously or sustainably grow from here, and how the NPD you have shared your vision for FY29, but let's say if we have to front-load the vision for next two years, how do you think both the portfolios will behave from here on?
I think one of our biggest interventions as an organization that is happening at multi-level is basically on ADHO. While we are talking of all the others and all the investments will keep on happening on all the, a lot of work is happening as far as innovation is concerned, newer products, in terms of marketing, a lot of work is getting done. But a multifaceted, multifunctional role, including sales in terms of marketing, in terms of R&D, as well as in terms of sourcing, etc., most of the work, a lot of work of it is happening as far as ADHO is concerned. ADHO, at this moment, is now getting basically worked on, if you ask me, at absolute SKU level a nd at different SKUs, different strategies are coming out, which we would want to implement. Maybe we are a little late in that.
Maybe we are 6-8 quarters in terms of what we wanted to do, but I think that momentum has already started moving. Results are not there to be seen, but I mean, we should be able to see the results in the next 2-3 quarters. I think that will be visible in terms of the interventions that are being made. A lot of focus will happen in ADHO. ADHO is being planned, at least at a CAGR of a mid-single digit. Maybe next year, we would want to do a little more, but at least at a mid-single-digit CAGR is ADHO at. I n terms of we have gone down at this moment. I mean, a lot of the gap that has happened is also due to execution gaps, which is what we are trying to address both internally in reorganization.
Reorganizing our team, there have been changing a bit of leadership as well in terms of handling pure GT sales, but also we are taking help from three agencies at this moment. I spoke of it in my presentation. We are looking at both geofencing and to ensuring better execution. We are looking at tying up with a consultant, looking at our entire go-to revamping our entire go-to market strategy. On the other side, we are also looking at how cost-to-market can be resolved and looking at where we are and what we should ideally be in the top three agencies. Work has started. Most of it, unfortunately, has started only in Q4, a little bit started in December. The other two just in Q4. So obviously, the results will be visible. So a lot of investments will happen in ADHO while on the other side, growth is happening.
To answer your question, next 2-3 years, CAGR for ADHO, mid-single digits, overall, looking at a higher number for the overall company.
Sure. Sir, and the 16% margin that you just spoke about, and we also spoke about the investment that we are making in ADHO, three agencies, and all. So all this cost is kind of built-in new guidance for 16% base margin, or you believe that this investment can kind of disrupt that in the initial phase?
O ne of the things that we decided was all the interventions that are happening in ADHO need to ensure that the growth margin is being protected because some of the solutions were much easier. The work that has happened in terms of entire design of the packaging material, in terms of products, etc. S ome of the things that you will see, we'll talk of it next quarter. One of the LEPs, while the propositions of consumer will improve drastically, surprisingly, the growth margin will not get impacted. W e'll explain as to why it is not getting impacted. We'll actually talk of that. T hose kinds of interventions, a lot of work went on in the back end in terms of R&D, in terms of packaging team, in terms of the packaging part of the R&D as well as product.
N ot too much of change is happening to the product. Let me just clarify that. But these are the work that has been happening at the back end. Now, they are fructifying into results, so we should see that. I n terms of margins, we are very, very clear. These are the guardrails we would want to operate as the margins a nd that's why we have not taken an even more ambitious target. We could have looked at a little more, but we have said this is something that we would be able to bite, and that's what we have taken. Unfortunately, last one and a half years, the markets have also not been very different. Those are now looking brighter, so we think that we're in a good position to take that on.
Perfect. S ir, last one on buyback. You shared your rationale there. I just missed, would promoter be participating in this buyback?
Oh, so that was one of the things that we mentioned, that this is to create investor value and given the confidence of the promoter. Obviously, the promoter is not participating in this buyback.
Fantastic, sir. That's all from my side, and sir, all the best to you and team for FY25.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask questions. The next question is from the line of Sunil Jain from Nirmal Bang. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you for this opportunity. Sir, my question relates to the Amla category where you earlier said that you had reduced the penetration in that because of excess competition. H ow is the situation now? Are the things improving in that?
I f you look at interesting category, externally, nothing has changed. In fact, the conditions remain equally competitive because that seems to be an easy growth area. Margins, specifically amongst all the heroes, is the worst in that a nd that category has been growing because they have been shifted to the lower-cost products. W hat we have done is more internal than external. The last initial part of the year, we have decided we will not participate in the Amla category. R ather, let's look at how we can look at cost optimization.
T here were four initiatives that we have taken, both in terms of the plastic usage that we had, in terms of the caps that we are putting in the raw material, entire reformulation of the raw material, and some bit of rationalization of the packaging in terms of if you can put it simply, so be it. A ll that has actually resulted in about 8%-9% improvement in gross margin as an Amla expense. Still, it is much lower than ADHO, but at least now it is a profitable brand. W e feel like there is clearly an opportunity. We will not exploit it too much because the gross margin is not great, but there is clearly an opportunity where we feel that we can do with a good positive EBITDA, not a great positive, but a positive EBITDA we'll continue with.
So me of the categories, some of the, let's say, markets and tax we would not participate because it's not going to give us a positive, so we'll remain outside. There are opportunities now with the big changes. We should be able to.
Yeah. Okay. Great. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask questions. The next question is from the line of Kaushik Poddar from KB Capital Markets Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Now that you are saying that your stocks at your stockist level have come down, what is the kind of growth we can see for the next two, three years?
I think we feel that double-digit growth next year is easily doable, and that is something that we want to target. In fact, last year also, we thought that we would be able to hit 8%-9%, and the trajectory was good, but yeah, last quarter, we did suffer. But now we are already seeing the traction. We are already seeing some of the initiatives come into place. We see that a double-digit growth from the way we did for FY25.
In terms of volume?
In terms of volume, we should be a little higher than that because with the non-ADHO portfolio going up, with coconut going up, etc., volume might be a little higher. This year also, as you can see, we are at 6.6% volume growth over a 2% value growth in the year s o we should be a little higher.
Okay. O bviously, another thing, this time for the fourth quarter, the employee cost has gone up by INR 5 crore compared to the last time. Is there any reason for that?
I think these are all in terms of your having lower vacancies and so on and so forth. I n terms of an average overall, if you look at, obviously, the percentage is a little higher because the sales is a little subdued. But in terms of overall, there are no structural changes that we have done in terms of people. I mean, at times, we will have lower vacancies for more people, so I think no structural changes done, no major manpower addition maybe here or there, one or two. In fact, next year, maybe we might rationalize some more people because of some of the initiatives that we are doing, but no structural interventions happening or no structural interventions to majorly look at manpower costs going up.
You have also spoken about employing some consultants, etc. W ill that be substantial as to affect your margin?
Not really. I mean, all the consultants put together would not impact our margins by maybe 0.5% or something less than that.
Okay. T he 16%-18% that you have spoken will be maintained. That's correct?
It will remain. Yes.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you may press star and one to ask questions. The next follow-up question is from the line of Tejas Shah from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead.
I thought we finished, Tejas.
Just one follow-up, sir. Sir, on dividend policy, with the buyback being announced this year, how should we think about dividend policy from next year?
D ividend policy has been earlier also stated that it will be 40%-60% unless there are some exceptional items of either M&A activity or some major CapEx infusion or in terms of a buyback, etc. G iven the fact that we are going for a buyback of a ticket size of INR 166 crore, so obviously, there'll be no further dividend. I mean, this is one of the companies which is already given a dividend as well as large buyback. So 40%-60% remains as a policy. That's not changing.
Perfect. So this buyback, we should think as a part of FY2024 to shareholders, or FY2025 will go back to normalize that range of 50%-60%?
This is clearly FY24. This is FY24.
Perfect. Okay. That's all from my side. Thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Dhiraj Mistry from Antique Stock Broking. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Good afternoon, sir. M y question, I don't know whether you have answered this or not, that if I look on an annualized basis, your A&P spend as a percentage of sales has been gone down, and that is the main contributor for your EBITDA margin expansion. Now, your near-to-medium-term guidance of 16%-18%, how do we see that going ahead, that most of the FMCG companies have been increasing their A&P spend? Some of the large players have increased their A&P spend, and whereas you have declined, how do we see going forward on A&P spend and whether that would be reliever for margin protection?
Okay. We had maintained that our spends will be closer to 17%-18%, and that kind of a range, which is what we are going to maintain. If you look at last year, we had called out quite a few times that in FY23, in the first quarter, there was a large investment. We had taken two products, Coco Onion and soap. If you remember, we had spent INR 10 crore each, more than INR 10 crore each in each of them. T hat was the spend, and maybe we had spent it a little ahead of the curve, and that is something that we have rationalized since then. T his is something we have discussed quite a few times just to remind. T hat was really not the case. I mean, 16%-18% is what we'll be keeping in touch.
We are reducing our investments as far as advertising.
Okay. Got it. S econd on the growth prospect that apart from the recovery what you have already highlighted right now, how confident you are would be is it a double-digit growth what you have been highlighting? It is mainly given the scenario what it is right now or what percentage of element you have built in in terms of rural recovery for that double-digit growth?
I don't think we talk specifically about rural recovery as far as the plants is concerned. It is more because of the initiatives that you are taking at the product level, at the pack level intervention. Some of them have a rural component to it. T hat's how our buildup has happened. ADHO pack level, a lot of interventions at state levels, and that translates into a mid-single-digit kind of a growth, maybe a little higher than mid-single-digit a nd some of the other products, clearly, already traction is there. We continue to invest. Doing more of the same putting it across larger markets. Some of the extensions now we are looking at some of the Almond Drops skincare range that we are talking about, maybe getting into GT. T hose are the interventions that builds up to this double-digit growth rate.
Okay. Sir, last question from my end, what would be our reach for non-ADHO portfolio in general trade channel?
What is that? Sorry. Come again.
What would be our reach for non-ADHO portfolio in general trade channel, and what's the plan going ahead?
You don't have reach specifically for a range of products. You reach individual products. So some of the products like coconut, etc., has already gone to about 50% of ADHO, and we think it can even, it has gone much faster in terms of distribution, both in terms of [GT as well as MT] we have got to a nd we think it can go even further. Some of the other products also, Amla, etc., also have had a good reach. O verall, if you think you were to add all of them up, maybe we'll look at a number of 60-65, but may not be the best way to look at number. I ndividual product-wise, we have a reach target, and I think we are doing some of them, obviously, a little below that, some of them much above.
It's a good mix that we are seeing as far as reach is going.
Okay. S ir, if I may, what would be the direct reach for ADHO and total direct plus indirect reach for ADHO?
Indirect reach remains at about 43 lakhs, which is the number that we keep seeing. There's not changed too much. It has improved marginally. As far as ADHO is concerned, we are still through if you look at the Van as well as the entire Van sales, the rural network as well as urban, we reach about 8.5 lakhs. So 8.5 lakhs is overall company, ADHO will be a little lower because some non-ADHO sales as well. This is roughly the number. We are talking of all the other numbers that I talked about as in perspective of that.
Thank you, and all the best for the future.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of VP Rajesh from Banyan Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. Just a question on your comment about the green shoots that you're seeing in the rural market. Could you elaborate on the drivers that you are observing which makes you so confident about the recovery? That would be very helpful. Thank you.
I think, see, as I said, I mean, both in terms of our own rural, if you ask me from our point of view, we see two things. One is obviously a kind of depressed market situation where the inflation has eased a bit, and we see there is some bit of traction coming up. While earlier, it was more of bad news coming up everywhere, now we are seeing states which are slowly starting to recover. So we see that this growth momentum, I mean, all the indicators matter. I mean, again, you just point out that this will indeed become better as time goes by. Pensions are expected to be above normal, etc.
C learly, the other thing, as I said, we have been working on because rural is a large part of our portfolio. We had no other choice but to invest in initiatives in rural whether the market improves or not. A lot of those initiatives are now fructifying, and given the fact that rural is also coming back, we see a great advantage as far as rural expenses. Rural for us is more an internal work done as well as the external environment which we see here.
Got it. Thank you. The rest of my questions have been answered, so I'm satisfied. Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of SK Devnath. From SK Devnath, please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity. The year has been a very good year as it looks from the volume and revenue. But I find that e-commerce has grown from 7%-8%. Although it's INR 580, that doesn't seem to be very impressive. What is your expectation or target for the next year, and what measures are you taking for achievement of this year? Thank you.
I think e-commerce, if you look at all about three years back, three and half years back, was just about 0.5% of our business. Now it has gone up to I mean, it is closing on INR 100 crore. I mean, obviously, not yet INR 100 crore, but closing on that. I think quarter after quarter, if you look at e-commerce, has been doing very well. I mean, and our focus is mainly, obviously, the B2C channel, which is our bulk of our e-commerce growth. In fact, this year in fact, the best part of this year is we have had a growth of about 27%, of which the B2C part has grown by 52%. The B2B, if you remember, you had a JioMart which actually closed down, so that was there in the base, has gone down in spite of that.
The company has done well. Obviously, the focus is only B2C. We have not only expanded the product portfolio in B2C, but we have also expanded the number of retailers that we operate with. Earlier, we were not very strong in QCOM. Q-commerce has come in. We were not very strong in Nykaa Myntra. Myntra and Nykaa have come in, and while obviously, we continue to be very strong in Flipkart, both national and grocery, as well as other markets. I think as far as e-commerce is concerned, it has been a pretty growing star as far as our business is concerned, and we think that this is the growth momentum that will continue because e-commerce has been firing in all platforms, and qualitatively performing.
Quantitatively, obviously, is important, but qualitatively, product range, number of retailers that we operated, in terms of portfolio that we operate, the kind of activations we do there in terms of performance marketing. Y eah, overall, I would think it is a very strong performance market. But yes, I take your point, and we'll keep investing in e-commerce and take it further.
But you have to expand your market bigger.
Already at one of the we have already seen from 0.5% to today, close to about 8%-9%. We are already at benchmark with the best in business. I mean, businesses which are our kind, not e-commerce.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next follow-up question is from the line of Viraj from SiMPL. Please go ahead.
Thanks for the follow-up. Just two questions. For the traditional new products, so the coconut oil, Amla range, Coco Onion, can you give us the breakup within these segments? How large would each of these be and the growth trends we have seen in, say, FY2024 in each of them? T hat is one. S econd is, you talked about by 2029, the aspiration is to achieve 20% sales in international. I f you can just probably talk more detail about how are we approaching the journey we like? W ill we be led by existing ADHO, or it will be more driven by the other product base? W hat kind of a revenue scale would that be when you say 20% of our business?
L et me answer the last question first. I would not like to talk of the specific revenue because that I mean, I don't want to backcalculate the numbers, but yes, you can understand that if you have a growth aspiration which is touching double-digit or crossing double-digit, actually, if you ask me. CAGR for the next few years, you can backcalculate, extrapolate up to 20% of that. We need more. So I'll answer the international part first before I go to the coconut and amla part. I nternational, very clearly, as you see, if you were to benchmark against any of our competitors, we are clearly underindexed. Even at 20%, we remain underindexed compared to most of them. I think there, the investments happened 20 years back, and they have been fructifying over the next five, six years. They've fructified, and they have reached today.
W e'll see the journey that we started two years is exactly in that direction. Maybe we are late, but we are not out a nd clearly, we are so underindexed, while 20% from 5% looks a large number, it's actually not really a large aspiration to be at b ut we want to keep ourselves on ground. T he investments that we are making in these two specific countries, we also have another country in mind, but I don't want to talk of it today. A s well as actively looking at some of the acquisition opportunities, we are also clear one of the advantages of being a late mover is also that you have hindsight advantage of seeing where the others have gone, where they have succeeded, where they have failed.
W e clearly know some of the continents that we would not look at either as our own greenfield or as opportunities. But some of the other countries clearly have opportunities, and we would like to exploit that as well as invest in our own. O ne of the things that we have done is already invested in our own facilities in terms of our own people, in terms of our own distribution network, etc. S ome of the results are slowly starting to trickle in, and I think that will just open more floodgates. We already started. The other thing that we have decided very clearly is the products have to be for that particular market. It cannot be. ADHO is the only product which will carry on as it is.
Any other product, we will see the fitment to that market or look at some of the markets. F or example, Middle East, we are looking at a large range of products not a large range, a range of products which will be tailor-made only for the UAE. A lot of innovation work happened. We worked with the UAE team. We worked with local consultants. We did consumer study in UAE for that. So some product range will be coming up in UAE specific, which has nothing to do with the India range at all. It's a separate range. Made in India not made in India. I mean, as in constructed in India in terms of R&D, etc., but completely catering to the need of the Gulf markets. So these kind of interventions will happen. Bangladesh will launch two minor products, but launched, being successful.
T he two products, again, nothing to do with India. T hese kind of work will happen as well as we'll take some hybrid products from India as well. Obviously, the product, it will have to be tailor-made to that particular country's requirement f or those works are going on. T hese kind of launches will keep happening. W e clearly see the 20% number is not a large aspirational number. It's a good number. It's a challenging number, but clearly doable number. Coming back to your coconut, Amla portfolios, etc., I think in terms of growth, all of them, as I said, we clearly have a clarity in terms of numbers that we want to push. Some of them are showing much better traction than what we had expected. Some of them, we have tactically pulled down a bit because of the gross margin issues that we talked about.
As we have improved in our gross margin, we'll again tactically see where we can move. It will be both a mix of strategic and tactical move for the next five years as far as our portfolios are concerned, beyond ADHO at least.
Just two follow-ups. If I can give one column on the size of each of these categories, new products in the new product which you talked about, say, coconut oil or Amla range. S econd is on the international end, yeah? W ould acquisition be a major milestone to achieve the 20% target, or you think organically, we have enough avenues for us to reach the 20% sales mix? I f it's organic, what milestones will we be tracking internally to achieve it? That's all.
Sure. F irst part, coconut obviously is a much larger market than Amla, the two categories that you mentioned s o hence, we'll also treat the two separately. Clear opportunities existing. Both will be exploited as we see, both strategically and tactically. As far as international is concerned, clearly, most of our plans that we have drawn up are already planned out. But yes, we are keeping an opportunity as far as international is concerned. But international acquisition, clearly, at least in my mind, I am very, very clear that the guardrails have to be far more stringent than we have for our domestic acquisitions. Domestic acquisitions, I think the parameters are a little more less volatile. As far as international exposures are concerned, we need to be aware of the country's macroeconomic conditions in terms of the volatility of their currency and so on and so forth.
K eeping all these factors, the restriction and guardrails in international acquisitions remain very high. Also in the kind of categories we want to get into. We don't want to be an investor. We want to get into categories where we can add value as an organization. W ith those guardrails, what fits in is what we would want to. B oth in terms of acquisition as well as organic will be a big thing, but it will be a little overindexed on organic.
Thank you. As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Thank you, everyone. As we saw, it was a difficult year. We had some good successes. In fact, most of the initiatives that we have been pushing are on the right tracks. Whether it be the new products that we wanted to get into, whether it be the modern trade e-commerce, the new channels that we wanted to push further, whether it be the international markets that we want to push forward. Now is the time to basically recover our core. I think a lot of work in the last six months has been working specifically, exclusively to work on core, which is basically both general trade as well as in terms of ADHO.
I will give you a glimpse of what work we are doing in terms of general trade, in terms of engaging with consultants and all things like that, as well as in terms of Almond Drops, what we are looking at in terms of different pathways for how we want to get into LUPs where we want to pick up. The larger packs have been already doing well, so it's more the LUPs and the mid packs and interventions. Actually, if you ask me, nearly happening and going to happen in actually nearly all of the scales other than large packs. I think we feel very confident that most of our green shoots are already showing results now that we also see that the external market becoming a little more favorable. We see that FY25 should be a good year for us.
With that, I end this comment, and thank you for joining us.
Thank you. On behalf of ICICI Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.