Bajaj Consumer Care Limited (BOM:533229)

Q1 20/21

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Jul 17, 2020

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Bajat Consumer Care Q1 FY 'twenty one Earnings Conference Call hosted by ICICI Securities Limited. As a reminder, all participants' lines will be in listen only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation conclude. Please note this conference is being recorded. I now have the conference over to Mr. Visme Agrawal from ICICI Securities. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Thank you, Vikram. Good morning, everyone. It is a pleasure to host the Q1 FY 'twenty one conference call of Bajaj Consumer Care. We have with us today from the management Mr. Jareep Nandi, Managing Director Mr. D. K. Malu, Chief Financial Officer and Mr. Kushal Maheshwari, Head Treasury and Investor Relations. Now over to the management for the opening remarks, and we can go into Q and A post that. Over to you, sir. Thank you, Vishwar. This is Jadip Nandhi here, and I am joined by my colleagues, Mr. D. K. Malu, the CFO mister Kushal Maheshwari, Head of Treasury and Investor Relations as well as some of my colleagues from our management committee. At the very outset, I hope and wish that all of you and your families are keeping safe and healthy. The quarter had started with an uncertain and unpredictable environment with the proliferation of COVID nineteen as all of you are aware. The company's performance was severely impacted by the lockdown, and we witnessed significant disruptions in the April when our business came to a complete standstill and all our offices, depots, and manufacturing locations remained closed. By end April, we started. And by May and June, the company has been able to steadily revive its operation and has reverted to near normal business in these two months. The company reported a sales turnover of INR 191 crores for the quarter with a decline of 17.6% over the same quarter of previous years. The EBITDA for the quarter was at 58.25 crores, a decline of 19% against the previous year. And the EBITDA to sales ratio was at 30.4%, which is a decline of 50 basis points versus the EBITDA reported in the last year's same quarter. The gross margins was at the gross margin was at 63.6% as against 67 66.7% in q one twenty. The margin drop was due to adverse impact of the product mix, which included the launch of sanitizer range during the quarter. The LLP prices have softened in this quarter, and if these pricing levels continue, the benefit should be visible in the metal cost going forward. The EBITDA margins remained healthy on the back of a significant drop in a and SP cost, advertising sales promotion spend, as we are off air from April to mid June. As you would remember, from mid March, we have been off air. So for three months, we were off here. Since then, our spends in this area have been restored to our supply levels, and we continue with that. In other overheads, there was savings in traveling and administration expense as the entire team was largely working from home. Path for the company was at 54.19 crores, again, 58.65 crores during the corresponding quarter of the previous year. The path as a percentage to sales improved to 28.3%, which was led by higher income from treasury as well as reduction in income tax rate. The hair oil industry continues to see a severe sequential slowdown. Till March 2020, the growth rate in the hair oil market was 2.8%, the mat growth that is, which declined sharply in April and May, 5025% respectively. And the growth rate during this two month cumulative period in value terms has been 38% decline and volume decline of 33%. The down trading is clearly visible as the consumer preference is moving towards the low low cost hair oils as against premium hair oils given the prevailing market conditions. BNN company, where our consultants partnering us for implementing an accelerated growth strategy in hair oils for the company, have done a comprehensive job in terms of stable partitioning and assortment of our focus in the speaking markets. The team now has the inputs for execution of the strategies, which is already being currently contextually executed and will continue to be done so in the future. Our approach during the quarter has been to maximize opportunities that were available to us, ensuring availability of our products in both rural and urban markets was obviously our first priority. We also looked at focusing on specific channels and geographies, which we thought would be relevant during this period. And also looked at leveraging new opportunities that have arisen during COVID nineteen. During the lockdown in April, the company and all its employees rallied behind the frontline sales more more in the second quarter, if we were to be precise, the second half of the month to connect with the channel partners in the system. At one time, more than 40,000 calls were being made per day to all our customers, that is channel partners, assuring them of company support and service. The company in the meanwhile also assured all its employees that there would be no no job losses due to the ongoing pandemic. When business resumed by end April, the company provided adequate PPE gear and ensured that all our sales force were working in the market and our factory personnel strictly adhere to the safety norms. One thing that became apparent during the early stages of lockdown itself, which was later borne out by the Nielsen data, was that the rural markets had been far less impacted than the urban markets. And as most containment zones are in the urban center and significant number of large wholesale mundis were shut, while many rural markets thoroughly remained open. During April and May, the total air oil offtake decline has been 44% in the urban market as compared to only 30% in the rural. So to ensure that the rural distribution reaches dialed up, the company scaled up its RAN operations in May and June. Currently, overall, we are reaching out to more than 50,000 villages that is including the RANs across 15 states. This has helped increase our direct reach and help service the end customers better. The company is supporting the initiative with advertising spends in key rural markets through TV. It started since mid June as well as digital marketing. For the modern trade channel, this was a tough quarter. The business got impacted due to closure of malls and hypermarket stores for major part of the quarter in most metro cities. However, we expect growth from this channel in future quarters to return when urban markets normalize. E commerce continued to remain a small part of our portfolio. While ecommerce sales saw good growth in the quarter, the absolute numbers still remain relatively insignificant. This will remain an area of focus for the company going forward. No significant development happened in the international business. The borders remain shut for a major part of the quarter impacting the business. We expect export orders to start trickling in as the situation is slowly coming to normal. And our main markets, as you would be aware, are basically The Gulf in The Middle East, Bangladesh, and Nepal. We had launched our Nomax hand sanitizer in retail and five liter packs sizes in month of April, which we had presented during the last investor call as a tactical opportunity. We added the 500 ml pack based on market demand in June, and additionally, a new product, the multipurpose sanitizer in five liters was also introduced in June to cater to institutional demand. We we believe that the uncertainty due to COVID nineteen will continue to support the demand for sanitizers in the long in the medium term. The company has gone live with SAP HANA and subset factor, which again we had presented last time. This is an area we'll continue to work on, basically to strengthen the systems and processes in the organization as well as work on control and governance as a as a as a practice for the company for the next few quarters. Our scenario is that flexibility, adaptability, nimble footedness will take precedence over structured long term planning and execution. As we move into the fifth month of a COVID grip world, it looks like the uncertainty will last for some time to come. And as we speak, July month is already seeing a surge of lockdowns across the country, which clearly might have an impact in sales. We need to keep reevaluating our plans regularly and look for con contextual solutions during these uncertain times. Parallelly, we'll also continue to build our long term strategic plans in the coming quarters as we look towards that longer term and a more stable environment. So with that, I would like to end my address and open the floor to questions. Thank you very much, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on your touch tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking our question. We have our first question from the line of Suresh Badesh from Centrum Brokings. Please go ahead. Mr. Suresh Paddeshi, your line is unmuted, sir. Please go and ask your question. Thank you. We have next question from the line of Saurabh Patva from HDFC Mutual Funds. Please go ahead. Good morning, sir. I hope you are able to hear me properly. Congratulations for a decent set of numbers. Just wanted to understand two things. First, if I just listen to calls of today, the results of one q and four q and 4Q con call, it appears that the fair market in general is in is facing a lot of volatility and turbulence. But our current quarter result shows a much better picture than what we would have believed. So based on what was mentioned in fourth quarter and also, there's some confusion that I'm not able to understand. So as you mentioned, uptake has been very weak in rural as in urban compared to what we have reported. So is it because of some lack of preventive demand is it could be because of a pent up demand and things may actually weaken further in coming quarters as the pent up demand in the system moves away? And also, what would be the share of sanitizer in the current current quarter revenues? Can you just share that number? Okay. Thank you, Saurabh. So quite a few questions. So I'll try and answer them in some order. So first, I'll answer the first question, which is the last question, which is what kind of percentage contribution would sanitizer have had? So sanitizers contributed to high single digit percentage of our total sales for the quarter. So this was obviously because it was a launch, so it had some traction in the first quarter as well as the two new SKUs that we have launched. We'll have to see going forward what kind of traction we get at the consumer offtake. As you are aware, the market is pretty cluttered, and we are also looking at seeing how we can make use of that and maybe while the market still remains pretty large and it is not going away in a hurry, the market is cluttered with lots of products and we'll have to see where we can make our USP and remain. So we still strongly believe that for the medium term, this is a product which will last for us. So we will continue with this product and not really go away when the market stabilizes. So this is as far as the sanitizer is concerned. As far as the hair oil market is concerned, yes, to an extent, what you said is correct. In the month of April in the month of March, obviously, the inventories at the distributor level had gone down substantially. So in April, whatever little offtake that happened of whatever little offtake that happened, our sales was much higher than that. So we had to replenish the stocks, I think, at the distributor level. Since then, the distributor stocks have really not gone up. So if you look at the stocks, in March, we were we had come down to something like nineteen days of stock at the distributor level. Now that has gone up to about, it went up to 24, 25, 26 is where we are sitting as far as June is concerned. So really speaking, a bit of a seven day kind of a gap, which has got created, which would have also reflected in our March sales. Going forward, there are two ways that you can look the market situation. One is obviously the Herald markets will we do not expect immediate recovery, but we also don't expect that market to really crash big time. So as far as our ADHO is concerned, we'll continue to have our strategy in terms of our ad spends will continue to be there. So we have done some a little bit change in our GC in the terms of where we are now advertising. We are now a little more focused on the rural channel. So more GC two rather than GC one is where we are focusing as well as advertising strategy is concerned. But we feel that this market is not going to go in a hurry. It is not going to collapse. I mean, April may there there might have been a little bit of a down, the thing, but that is not something that will remain for a very long time. So offtakes will come back. So this is not a product which is even though it's not a not an essential, it will not go away completely. Other factors that our kind of market share, which is just about a single digit to just about ten ten and a half percent kind of a market share, we still think that there is room to for us to play across geographies as well as across product. This is something, at this moment, I don't think we have a complete plan in order, so to say, but this is a clear space where we can play, and there's a part of the market. Even other than coconut, there is enough space for us to play, which is something that we'll continue to play. Okay. Can you just add one question related to this, if may permit? Is how would I have better our working capital would have changed because of which sharp inventory moment as in the the the in the developed at the distributor end. Yeah. So see, the working capital, let's say, as far as if you were to compare with the March numbers Yeah. The inventories have obviously gone down. And that is mainly because your inventory it was expected to go down because you are you are the raw materials, you are the you are the SG, and you could not, you know, deplete that. Right? So so that has Yeah. Obviously gone down. So inventories, as of March, it was about twenty eight days. Now it has crashed down to about eighteen days. Trade debt has more or less remained similar because we do not operate as you are aware that we do not operate this credit at all in the trade in the Right. Our general trade. It's only in CST and some of the modern trade we have a bit of credit, which is typically hovers about thirteen to fifteen days. So we are sitting at fifteen days of stock. So this is just about that. Payables more or less remain at a similar level. Second, payables have gone up in March by the same logic, thirty six days of payables, which has gone up to twenty six days. So more or less, we have a a working capital which still is pretty comfortable with the negative working capital in the negative territory. Okay. Okay, sir. Thanks a lot, and all the best. Thank you, sir. We have next question from the line of Amit Doshi from CareVMS. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thank you. Sir, you mentioned that, you know, the premium hair oil segment is, you know, seeing a bit of downtrend. And so can you say what kind of products that we have in our basket which would cater to non premium segment? And anything to turn in that segment, in the lower value or a non premium segment? See, as you as you see our product basket, obviously, as you are aware, we don't have a very large product credited product basket. And the few few segments that we wish to play in. So for example, at this very onset, let me just say that coconut is not something that we are we are looking at at a very very common current moment. So that's a large basket is out. I mean, I'm saying at this current moment, definitely, that's not where we are. We are not commenting on what might happen or not happen in the future, but currently, we are not into coconut. Right? So that leaves us a few of the options. So amla is one option, which already we have a product. I mean, we have actually two products in the amla basket, which is, as you might be aware, the brambi amla as well as the normal amla that we have. Now this is something that can be dialed up. It is it has been a product which has been going through our rural initiative. That product has already been going into the market in May and June. This is something that we'll see in the future how much and how much we can dial up and what kind of effort we need to look at. There are already two large products in the market, and we need to figure out where we stand as far as this product is concerned. This is, at this moment, more on experimental stage. We are also trying to find our feet and see where this is. So that's one product which will definitely be there. Having said that, ADHO will still remain a strong play as far as we feel our concern. I mean, we'll be looking at the different pack sizes and kind of offers that we need to put in this product to see that ADHO remains relevant. And even though the the overall there's a downturn that is happening in as far as the purchase pattern is concerned, we would like to we would like to think that ADHO will still have a large play in the marketplace, and it will not keep crashing the way it has crashed in the first maybe two months. Okay. Okay. While we're in a lockdown and this COVID situation is, of course, unprecedented. But during this period, I think we would have on the other hand, we have given you an opportunity to identify our our well, part of the sales or the part of the you know, because you mentioned that, you know, three months, we were off air. So what sales we could conclude, you know, without kind of ad spend and, you know, those kind of expenditure. So what portion do you believe that is there? And, also, to reach any, you know, considering that, any change in the ad spend plan that we had, you know, because, initially, we used to spend lower last year after the new strategy, we decided to spend higher. And probably now, is there any change on that? So that's two questions are connected. So the first question is, really speaking, it's very difficult to put a number to the inelasticity of demand. Because as you are aware, I mean, consumer preference and certain practices, especially in personal care space, becomes a little difficult to change, especially a category like hair oils, etcetera, people's perception and people practices, etcetera, is far more difficult to change maybe some of the other practices, like, let's say, products like maybe shampoos or soaps, etcetera. So so we personally think there is a bit of inelasticity in demand, but exactly putting a number, etcetera, I would not venture that way. So that's a little bit difficult. What was the second question, sir? No. So any any any planning the change of the ad ad expenditure? So ad spends see, this was very unprecedented as far as March to June was concerned. This was, I think, in the history of the company for the first time. For three months continuously, we were off air. Now that is not something that we would want to see ever in the future or something that I mean, if conditions are really that bad and we were forced to do so, we will have to do that. But we hope that we don't have to go through that history once more. So at this moment, if you look at since mid June, we have been on air, and we have been substantially on air back to our pre pre COVID levels. And unless there is some unforeseen situation, we don't know. In this situation. We really can't predict. We would like to continue with our expense strategy. We would want to fully back ADHO so that the savings of ADHO across the consumer mind remains strong. Okay. Okay. And so what is one reason that you can attribute to increase in market share? So our market share has just improved by a few basis points, 10.1 to 10.2. But any reason that you would like to attribute to increase in the market share? Frankly, if you ask me in this kind of a very, very uncertain situation, market shares also need to be read a little more in fine print because rather not read in fine print is what I would say. So month to month variations will keep happening. At this moment, as you saw, the company took a rural drive, so the rural reach expanded. So we were going into far more number of retail stores in the rural market that we were not. So that would have obviously given us some head start, etcetera. Now whether that continues or not, whether that can be sustained by the organization is something that we need to see. And if that happens, then you are making some structural movement in the marketplace. So that, I think, we should wait and see whether that happens or Okay. Okay. Okay. And last one, just on the March month or whatever because of the ten, fifteen days lockdown, what sales lost could have would have been, you know, kind of a carry forward in the June? Any any rough idea is also fine abroad? If you look at the absolute number, how much we lost, it was about 63 gross of business that we lost. If you were to look at equal to equal between March 2019 and March 2020. Now how much of it has come back, etcetera, is a little difficult to predict. But as I said, the inventories, the distributor level had gone down to nineteen days, which is now back up to twenty six days. So that seven day recovery of stocks, you can just add on back. That is something that has come back to the company. Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. All the best. Thank you. Thank you, sir. We have next question from the line of Abhish Roy from Edelweiss. Please go ahead. Yes, sir. Congrats. Good recovery in May, June. My question is on the consumer behavior. So what we are picking up is in bigger cities because of work from home, especially the male consumers, they have cut down on the air oil consumption in general. And on the other hand, in the industry clusters, some of your states have got big industry clusters because of the migrant chaos, migrant travel to the home states, etcetera, plus lot of pain. Obviously, they would have cut down. Aero would not be anywhere in terms of priority for them. So in these micro pockets, could you comment how the consumer behavior has been? Because you could you can easily get the data. Yeah. Actually, if you look at some of it has actually played into our hands if you were to look at it that way. So a large part of the the COVID actually happened to the through the harsh summer. And as you are aware, that is when the cooling oil is used by the exact TG that you are mentioning. Right? The male rural male population. So so the the cooling oil has clearly suffered. I mean, we had some plans, now that is all history to look at how we could play in that cooling oil space. Obviously, we had to shelve our plans as we saw the business as we saw that market playing out. So clearly, there has been a loss of sale in the cooling oil segment and the players were strong in that, would have the would have faced the brunt of its impact. We did not really get back into the cooling oil. While we have launched our product two years back, we really wanted to get into do something in that. We really did not enter it back this year at least. So we did not face too much of brunt of it. Now if you were to look at the DG that we have for our ADHO and what we claim and the end customer that we are trying to address, that was not really the segment that we are talking about. So, obviously, there has been an impact. I cannot deny that there has been an impact on that. But, fortunately, we are a little shielded off from the exact thing that you are mentioning, and hence, possibly, we are not that badly affected as maybe some of the other segments were sectors were. Yeah. But work from home, is that impacting you in the big city? In terms of sales? Or I mean Yeah. The consumer will not use the hair oil because he's staying at home. Because a lot of Indians also use this when they're going out so that the hair is in place as as a styling gel alternative. So are you seeing in the big cities, for example, Mumbai, Pune, wherein you are anyway strong, are you seeing that kind of impact in the residential? See, I don't think well, based on consumer behavior, we see too much of a change. I don't think there is enough study that is available to us, which will tell us whether this is the reason why Arvon's sales are down. I mean, our understanding is that we are not able to distribute or we are not able to reach our the thing. So I don't think we will we will see too much of I I don't think rather, I would not suggest that consumer sales is consumer practice of using heroin is going down because in the urban markets, they are sitting at home. I mean, it is similar to it is similar to the thing in terms of shampoos, for example. I mean, that had gone down by by May, etcetera. We see that has already recovered. But, distribution is clearly a concern as far as the urban markets are concerned. We are not able to hit the retail market. More than trade stores are closed. So that clearly is the ability to reach to the urban customer is clearly a concern. Yeah. My second question is more on the strategy level. Now you have spent seven months in the company, six months as CEO and one month as MD. So you could clearly come from a much larger, much more systematic company, So in terms of, say, strategy or, say, monitoring or the Salesforce automation in terms of the advertising or the route to market, what are the issues in Badaj? It's a small company. Last few years has been extremely tough for the company. So in that context, which are the ones you have identified? I'm not asking which you have done. In Corona, obviously, lot of things will not be a priority necessarily. But what are the issues you have identified in these segments? So, Harish, just to answer that question, I think, as you rightly said, I mean, Bajaj is obviously a smaller company from where I come from. But if you look at the basic practices in the organization, they have been pretty strong historically. It's not something that it has really suffered in terms of practices, etcetera. But some improvement areas possibly will be obviously focused on in terms of process systems, controls, governance, etcetera. I mean, that is something obviously we would like to dial up going forward. I think that is a continuous journey for any organization, cannot be talked about by just consumer as such. But that is something definitely we focus on and continue to work on. So as you saw SAP SAP HANA or even the automation of our Salesforce automation, which is through that AI tool, Selena, these were done much before I came. It was not something that I started. But so that is my job. I mean, I have to continue the journey. It's a continuum, and I would like to dial up this process system so that, sort of controls, etcetera, concerned. All this governance, etcetera. All this entire area, entire set we dial up for the next five to six months. Now as far as the strategic directions are concerned, I would think as I as I was as I made a statement in the opening statement, obviously, we have some thoughts at the beginning of the beginning of the year as to what we might want to address, etcetera. But given the volatility that we see in the marketplace, this is something that we stick keeping a close eye on eye on. We are also working on parallelly as to what we want to do in the future, etcetera. But at this moment, we don't want to activate most of it. Most of the activation we see will at this moment, we'll be focused on operational excellence. There's a large part a large piece that Bain has already worked for us in terms of partitioning the markets, what are the various gaps that you have identified in the market that we play in, which is basically the Hindi speaking markets and where the judge can have a a meaningful role to play. This already we are activating some of it, again, contextually, because you can't implement really in March whatever is being suggested. And that is something that we'll continue to do while we also look beyond beyond what else can be possible. But that is you'll have to wait for a few quarters before we really get into some strategy. And, sir, last follow-up related to this personally. If you see Asian Paints has done multiple forays into adjacencies in the paint and have done reasonably well. But if you see Bajaj consumer on the other hand, almost all its adjacencies have failed the same cooling hair oil or any other hair oil. Similarly, the acquisition also completely failed. So being a single category, that's a big risk. So once the normalization comes after the COVID, will that be one of your top three focus areas that the has to be there? Or you will focus more on the low hanging fruit? Because in Herald, I understand a lot of low hanging fruits are there based on what the vein has also given in terms of recommendation. What would be the desired price? It can't be both, I think. First and foremost, I would not like to compare one company with another because all the market conditions are different. Markets are completely different. Segments are completely different. So really, really speaking, what works for one company will not work for another company. Having said that, at Bajaj Consumer, I mean, we are completely aware of the fact. I think I would think that internally people are more aware than as in the external world, what has happened in the last five years, what we have succeeded, what we have not. And I think when we put all this in the potboiler and plan our strategic directions, we will keep all these points in mind while we go forward. We know where we have succeeded, where we have full failed, and we would like to take this learning lessons. Whether we would really go outside hair oils, what are the spaces, etcetera, I think we'll wait and wait for that to come out, which we should be through by another two, three quarters. I mean, we should be able to come back. At this moment, we really don't want to speculate. Obviously, all of these points are on the table. We would like to see where our strengths lie, what are the things that you can chew, and which are the ones we can back for some reasonable long term, at least mid to long term. We would one thing that we have learned out of this exercise is possibly that if we take up a project, we should not take up too much on our plate. And what we take up, we should be able to see through consistently. That is something that we would want to take up in the future. So what, etcetera, maybe you look to give us one or two quarters before we come out with what exactly you would want. Sure. That was quite helpful, David. Thanks a lot and all the Thanks, Satish. Thank you, sir. We have next question from the line of Tejesh Shah from Spark Capital. Please go ahead. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. So when we spoke last on the we were actually we we called out challenges and market condition. Even CSB was under pressure. Exports also, we called on. There was the pressure. And then we report sequential recovery. So as we speak today, would you say that demand environment has improved significantly on month on month or quarter on quarter basis, or is it looking at COVID data again coming back in many cities? You believe it is there is no structure we're trying to read yet. Okay. Good question, Tejas. In fact in fact, frankly, if you ask me, I don't have an answer to that. Because as I said, as we speak of July, last five days, things have completely changed. We had a thought process having seen how May worked, having seen how June worked, which was better than May. We are sent to certain plans in July, and we are going strong with that. And suddenly, in the last seven days with the kind of lockdowns we are seeing in Bihar and in Guwahati and in Jharkhand and in Bangalore and Chennai, which possibly doesn't affect us and whole lot whole lot of other cities. We really do not know where this is. So that's why I said being a little fleet footed, I think being a smaller company here helps Being being smaller, you are a little nimble footer. You can really react without much impact on your overall overall numbers. So so that is something that we'll keep a watch on and be be, I think, aware of that continuously. We need to keep reinventing ourselves just to make what context while we work on what we want to do in the strategic directions, etcetera, which is more of a a little longer term, what are the strengths we need to build up, etcetera. This is something that we'll keep a close watch on. As I said, July itself looks pretty difficult. I mean, the last three, four days or the last, maybe five, six days have been pretty scary. So we don't know how it end. If you were to ask me today, how will July end? I have no idea how it will end. So this is something that we'll have to be be careful of. And as we strategize and calibrate, we need to keep this in Cognizant going forward. Fair enough, sir. So second, on this extending question for Abhish that whether work from home is impacting urban consumer on heroin category. So you said it is it seems largely that the distribution challenge rather than consumer challenge. So would it be the case that our channel inventory will be lesser than optimum at this stage in urban in urban market? I think we would like to think so. I think because what is also happening is you will see the customers are customers also visiting the shops much lesser. So so that's why you see the higher purchase of the bulk packs. And in fact, the larger packs are selling much more than the smaller packs because the frequency of visits to the shops have also gone down. So, yes, we think inventories would have gone down mainly because we have not been able to reach out. We are many other companies, we have not been able to reach to many of these shops, and many of them are not open on a regular basis. So we think that inventories would have gone down. But when and how it will recover, etcetera, it is more in the space of speculation rather than actual any understanding. Sure. And, sir, sanitizer contribution high single digit is quite commendable. In fact, some of our other initiatives in past would have taken much longer to read that number. Now this could be a a surge in the market because of the obvious scenario also. Is the commitment from our side to the category of fleeting ones or we are not really sure how it pans out, or you see an opportunity of structural engagement here also? See, as you rightly said, I mean, this was a tactical opportunity. By any stretch of imagination, if you were to say that we were really planning to get into this health and hygiene spaces, which is how I would like to classify it rather than just call it an hand sanitizer. So this is a space we were obviously not even dreaming of when sitting in the month of January, February. But come March and come April, we saw a tactical opportunity. As you would be aware, we have converted one of our factories partly into manufacturing of hand sanitizers. So that shows some commitment from our side. While we understand this is a market which is which is very, very cluttered today, there's a lot of it is actually to the extent of being commoditized. Our understanding is if you were to hold on to this for the time being, quite a few of these players will fall by the wayside for two reasons. One is the larger players where the stakes are much higher, where the gross margins and their regular category products are much higher, they will not want to continue. And some of the smaller players where maybe issues with alcohol availability might come in when actually the petroleum companies will open up and internal demands go up, etcetera. So we really don't know how the demand supply equation will play in alcohols. That is the time it will be for us to decide and figure out whether we'll be able to play long term or not. At this stage, we want to hang on to this. We see there is a potential in the future, but we really don't know whether we can play along. Now if this is a potential we see, we want to exploit, there are other products also in the range we might want to explore in this entire hand health and hygiene space. So this is something that I think we'll wait and watch rather than comment upfront and go ahead around that. But the margin from that we spoke about stands for us as well. Like, if I do rough math, then the realization per ml will be 10% of our head on realization, ADHO. So broadly, that can end will stay with us as well. Is that correct understanding? No. No. Sorry. I mean, how will you get the number of 10%, you think? So government has stipulated price of sanitizer per ml, And what is our realization of 60 rupees per 100 ml? I was just doing a rough math that our realization and then sanitizer has to be much lower than our existing product line. Yeah. It is it is much lower than the product line and maybe in the initial stages as as I as I said, I mean, it's a cluttered market and we also want to to be relevant both in the so we were at a decent primary followed by a good secondary. So obviously, it was a little push based. I mean, in most stretch of imagination, can you expect the consumer to look for balajas, hand sanitizers or balajas, multiple sanitizers multiple sanitizers. Right? So obviously, it has been a push led strategy, etcetera. And that is what I'm saying. We'll have to wheel us to where the tide for some time. It's not something that we'll aggressively push, but we'll remain relevant in this market. And when the situation normalizes, we'll just assess as to whether there is enough play in this market for us to play or not. We don't have a large appetite. It's not does it not seem to be a large significant part of our portfolio. But if it adds into our portfolio and there may be some more adjacent products we want to want to add so that the entire product because one big advantage we have is the distribution channel is already there Some of the other areas where maybe the pharma channel or maybe institutional sales is something that we are also looking into our own distinct thing, whether we can dial it up, whether we have a play there or not. If that we are able to figure out and that we are we are also looking at whether we want to be in there or not. If that is something that is there, this is something that we might want to stay back. But at this moment, I would not want to commit 100% that, yes, we will stay. This is something that we will keep a wait and watch policy. Yeah. And, sir, lastly, if if I may have a last question. So we are hearing you for a second time, and and you specifically said that this is not the time to embark upon three or five year plans. And then today, also, you you mentioned twice that this is the time to actually look for a contextual solution to the problems. Now if you have to prioritize the problem, your, your focus will be to solve revenue growth in this environment or to actually streamline, cost structure and and be focused on cash conservation and password. So what is the goal seek of this context of solution for this year, 2020? So there's just a small correction to the narrative itself. I said that I would not like to articulate the strategic vision because this is it's not that we will not be thinking of the strategic vision. That's a little bit of a Yeah. Sure. Semantics if you can push it. I mean, this is something that obviously you see, you cannot operate with a without a goal in mind. Right? I mean, you cannot just operate in absolute back home and just live by the day. So, obviously, there is some work going on at the back end where what we want to do, etcetera, etcetera. But at this stage, I don't think it is there the the recipe is only there. There is no finished product. So so we don't want to come out in the open or discuss. It's very, very in the conceptual stage. So it's not that there's no focus or there's no mind to look at that. Having said that, yes, contextually, need to keep finding solutions because operational excellence is something that we need to keep driving. I don't think there is any option for any company in this condition to drive operational excellence and look at growth. So if you were to look at the priorities, yes, clearly, for this company, which has had issues with the top line growth, I mean, it has always had a fantastic EBITDA and even better pattern times, yes, or both to be same if you don't look at the treasury numbers. So looking at cost structures, really speaking, is not that much of a concern. You look at employee cost last year, it was restructured quite well, and I don't think this is area which can keep track beyond a certain point. There will be some structural changes made to the organization as well for making future ready in terms of strategic members coming into the team, but that is something that we'll wait and watch to see what happens in that space. Not too much of cost changes will happen, but some some buildup will happen in that area. But I think the more focus at this moment is looking at how do we drive top line. And even if that means a little bit of a change in the EBITDA percentages here and then, we would look at absolute EBITDA and absolute top line numbers. These are the two numbers we'll drive. Obviously, we'll not get you anywhere. We can't get a over leveraged as a company with a negative working capital and really speaking no CapEx. Yes, there is always option of the M and A, which we'll keep exploring. And even now in these conditions, are exploring because we feel that in this kind of a valuation money in this kind of a valuation that companies are getting, I mean, there might be opportunities, and there might be gems which are there. So this is not something that we are actively pursuing. I cannot tell you that there are some targets, so that would be not a a truth. But, yes, this is something that we're on a corner of our eyes, we are keeping track of. But internally, if you ask me, operational excellence, setting up our process systems and ensuring top line, and EBITDA growth. EBITDA growth as absolute numbers. If that means a few few basis points plus minus here, it won't go plus, it can only go minus. I mean, we should be able to take that. Thanks, sir. Thanks and all the best. Thank you. Thank you, sir. We have next question from the line of Parsi Panthakhi from IFL. Please go ahead. Hi, sir. Could you give us some flavor on the secondary sales growth, how it has trended during the quarter, April, May, June? Is there a increasing trend, decreasing trend? Is it more or less sort of similar across three months? Any kind of flavor that you can give will be helpful on secondary sales. So I think I think you saw the month of April, even though we had our sales had crashed, our primary sales was ahead of secondary because of the sheer sheer lockdown that happened in March and the and the actually, the the stockings went down. So primary will was clearly ahead of secondary in month of month of April, right, even though it's lesser sales. So we had far lesser sales, but whatever little sales we had, it went down. But in the month of May and June, if you look at, I think May and June both, and that is a very encouraging sign for us. While May and June were both good funds, we we saw that secondary actually keep up with primary. And that is also backed up with the data that you saw or that the data that I told you that from March where we had nineteen days of stock, which went up to about twenty four days March, which went up to twenty four days in April, the distributor stocks have remained at 25, 26. That's it. It has not really gone up substantially. So secondary is actually following that. As far as offtake is concerned, obviously, we'll see the June numbers coming up sometime in about July 21 or something, maybe another five, six days. We'll get a sense of what kind of off day off takes has happened across the country. But we got a good sense that secondary is keeping up with primary. The thing the numbers are now at the similar levels as that was there in pre COVID. Right. And between May and June, the secondary sales is more or less the same amount of decline, or is there a material difference? Actually, in June, the secondary sales has gone up substantially over May, which was itself pretty high. So in May, for example, we were dropping in about just a little below the COVID levels. In June, the secondary sales have been higher than the COVID levels. In the last, let's say, in the last six months, June has been a little higher. Okay. That's one small calculation I made, which I want to run by you, whether it's correct or not. So, basically, your sales decline is about some 19%. If I remove the hand sanitizer part and look at only hair oils, the decline will be somewhere around 25%. And if I add back that seven days of sort of pipeline fill in, which has happened, at the secondary level, the hair oil sales decline is somewhere in the region of 30%. So is this calculation roughly correct? That calculation would not be correct because you are assuming that the hand sanitizer sales primary has matched secondary. So that would also not have happened. Right? So so you'll have to discount the secondary in the primary sale that has increased for and sanitizers, you have to decrease for secondary. So if you look at overall, your math is correct. If you look at that minus 25 that you talked about in terms of primary, that's absolutely correct. And that is what would have happened. I mean, ADHO itself would have been a little less than that. The other other products, which are the marginal products that we have have actually gone down a bit. So, I mean, ADHO is roughly similar to the to the overall hair oil decline that we have, really not too much because we had a little bit of growth in AMLA as well. Now these are very, very small products. Our company, obviously, doesn't do too much other than ADHO. So so minus 25 is correct. So my point is that secondary in as far as as far as sales is concerned, hair oils, we would have also dropped in very similar numbers as far as hair oils are concerned. Because hand sanitizers, the gap that you are talking about is more going on to fill up the hand sanitizer thing at this moment. So just to just to paraphrase. At this moment, if you look at, I'm a little concerned with the twenty six days of stock as far as distributors are concerned. I am a little concerned that ADHO itself, the stocking would be low at this stage. So that is something that we would want to have, By the way, I hope. Understood. Understood. And last question from my side. Yes. See, Bajada almond has been positioned in a dual way. There is a styling benefit, and there is a nutrition benefit from vitamin e that you advertise. But, of course, in consumers' minds, my guess is that the styling benefit is slightly higher than the nourishment benefit. So in this kind of an environment where styling is not that bigger need because people are not stepping out that much, etcetera, would you want to change your advertising strategy in order to emphasize the nourishment benefits of the product more? It's a it's a extremely interesting question. It's a it's an extremely interesting question, and this is something that we have been discussing in the last two, three months intensely with our ad agency, etcetera. Is it is it styling that we want to drive or is it nourishment and air loss that we want to drive? Now interestingly, if you notice our ad pattern in the last time for the first time, I think, in the history of the company last I mean, our year back ad, if you look at, that is where we were driving nourishment and nourishment and hair fall. And we if you look at so that's about now one and a half one year little less than one year where we drove that nourishment and hair loss listing. And when we do the lipstick with the consumer, we realized that that is giving far better traction among consumers saying that, yeah, clearly, nourishment and hair loss, they could relate to. Styling is nice. I mean, obviously, it's a good feel. But moment is hair oil. Moment is something that I mean, value benefit is attribute is very, very clear. I think the salience of that product itself went up. So so that is something that we would want to stick to. So if you look at again, if you were to go back and look at our two ads, we are slightly moved from the styling. We are not going away from styling and being a head product. I mean, that is not something that we want to go go away from. But, clearly, nourishment and hair loss is something that is people are active groups. It's something that we have already dialed up, and that is something that we would want to continue with. So so that's where we are at IPH at this stage. Okay, sir. That's all from me. Thanks, and all the best. Thank you. Thank you, sir. We have next question from the line of Shalini Gupta from Quantum Securities. Please go ahead. Yeah. So I just wanted to want your clarification. See, our ad ad expenses to sales have been $14.15, 16%. But then about two, three quarters back, the management guided that it will it will go up to 24, 25% to support your support your getting into new markets and stuff like that. So now what is the what kind of ads like, ad expenses should we expect? See, if you look at quarter four, that was an abbreviation because of two reasons. I mean, if you were to look at quarter four so let me start with quarter four because that that evoke lot of questions in the last investor call. Right? So so that was very clearly we had invested quite heavily. There was full action that was happening as far as the strategic intervention was concerned. We are taking up multiple states, and we had already spent the money going forward in many ways than just ad spend. And, obviously, the revenues did not back it up. Right? So what we are clearly saying at this stage is we would obviously want to continue at similar levels that we saw before COVID. That is not something that we would want to go there. The first two months, April and we are also monitoring how others are in the in this in this space, how who's going back in ad, and only one of our contact really was back in back on TV in a big way. So we are also monitoring that, and we we decided that by fifteen June, we will also be back. And at this moment also, we are taking it quarter by fortnight by fortnight. We want to remain completely there as we were in pre pre COVID, and as we go into more market specific actions, etcetera, maybe we will dial it. But dialing down will only happen if there is, like, for example, closure of markets. If markets were to close, if we go go back to a, let's say, end March, beginning April kind of a scenario, that were to repeat, then maybe we'll look into it because just spending money without getting any effective return, etcetera, would not make sense. But if we see markets remaining open and we are able to go into the market and service our customers, this ad spends and the pre COVID levels of ad spend, you can take as a take as something that we will continue with. Maybe if you want to dial up, maybe dial up. Dial down unlikely. So when you say pre COVID, basically, you're saying ad ad expenses will be fourteen, fifteen, 16% of sales. Is that correct? So if you look at the entire ANSP spends, I would think it's about something about 18% is what we have been averaging. So that is something that I mean, q one was about 16.8. Q two was 17. So so so that is the seventeen, eighteen kind of numbers is something that you would want. Okay. And so next question is, see, we have rural growing much faster than than urban in this quarter. So I'm I'm just asking you, does this have any EBITDA implications for you? I mean, I'll do yeah. See, the way we will basically is the distribution cost. I'm assuming you are asking for the distribution cost. So that's the only cost that gets added onto the because you are reaching out directly through your inter your own interventions through van sales, etcetera. So there yes. It does have a bit of an impact, but really speaking, in terms of material impact, etcetera, it does not make a difference. Okay. And, sir, now in as we've seen in the hazard market that basically the lower priced oils like Amla are doing well, and the the the slightly premium premium oils are not doing well. So, I mean so and this was this was the situation even before COVID. So, sir, I mean, till when do you expect this to continue? Because because ADHO is your almond drops is a very, very significant part of our portfolio, and Amla is is a very insignificant part of the portfolio. So by when do you expect, broadly speaking, when do you expect almond drops to really come back into positive territory, and what will be the drivers for that? See, as you rightly said, I mean, clearly, the the economy heralds are doing better. So we are also keeping a on it. And I just said that we have already started trying to see how we can make some more meaningful play in that segment. I mean, that still seems to be the other option that we have for us. Having said that, ADHU will continue to remain remain our absolute focus area. I don't think at any point of time, the that will go off from our radar in any manner whatsoever. I mean, not only going out from data, even a little bit of attention going off from the data will not happen. There is something that we'll continue to focus on. And if you look at the premium oils, the impact on the premium oils, the really, really premium oils, which is a level beyond the ADHO. I I think the severe impact has been more on that category. ADHO, I think the user base is also a little loyal, and whatever little loss has happened is more keeping in the market in the market growth rates. Really speaking, not huge losses have happened in this category. So we would like to monitor that, and we think that as market stabilizes, that will also keep coming back. Really, if you are looking at buying share from others through ADHO at this stage, that is not something that we are looking at in a big way. I don't think that will happen. We will ensure our distribution reach of EDHO, etcetera, is maximized so that customers where it needs to reach is reach so that the person who's looking for EDHO doesn't get the EDHO is we would like to minimize as much as possible. I think that would be the approach that you would take at this stage. Okay. And, sir, my last question, I was I was speaking to someone who who really does a lot of distribution for the FMCG sector, and he says that the that that the bigger bigger problem is that there isn't enough manpower with the distributors. So so companies are not really even now able to reach their product to the end consumer as much as they would like to. So would that be your experience also? No. Sorry. Can you come the come again? I I just missed the first one. Yes, Yes, sir. So I basically, someone who I've I had a call with with the person who handles distribution for the FMCG sector. So he was saying that the bigger problem now is that even now, there isn't enough manpower available with the distributors. As a result, a lot of companies are not really able to reach their product to the consumer as much as they would like to. So would that be your your experience also? Yes. Absolutely. I mean, I think I don't think we are operating in isolation. So that is absolutely a correct fact in many markets, not only not only from distributors, even from our deposit center. Logistics is clearly an issue. Ability to reach our end customer. The last mile is obviously something that we are struggling with. And hence, we are looking at the various means and methods how we can reach our customers. So this is something that will happening. So you are delivery boys, etcetera, etcetera. We are also trying to innovate as some of the other companies are. Okay. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you. We have next question from the line of VP Rajesh from Banyan Capital. Just one question. So when you say you had stopped TV for the last three months, that is the potential between, let's say, 13% ASP that you reported versus 18% that you were talking about, or there was something more that has also been, you know, taken out of circulation? Yeah. That is that is basically the main thing that is that was there. I mean, there were other a bit of consultant cost which was there, which you can understand last year. So that is going on. Beyond that, if you take it. Yes. Okay. And then the second question, you said in in the last four, five days or maybe longer, you know, they have been localized lockdowns. So can you just give a little bit more color on that as to, is it starting to impact the rural markets? Or is it just there are more disruptions on the supply chain? Just more color on that in GM sales. That's actually a very good question. As we look at this, while our entire narrative of the first quarter has been on rural markets going bogger and we have been very excited about the rural markets. For the first time in July, we are seeing rest since the rural market system. If you ask me frankly, rural markets might be a little more impacted than by the July. This is, again, crystal gazing. But rural market actually may get impacted because we are seeing all these Bihar and all of the Jharkans and parties of the world really getting impacted. And those are our markets of interest. As of now, fortunately, UP remains still relatively isolated in terms of not having these lockdowns, but we really never know. This is the kind of migrant workers who have gone back, and these are things that are now coming out in the open, and we are getting to feel because as it has proliferated the COVID, we are really getting a sense of what has happened. So this is something that is clearly a worry. Rural markets are have been affected in the last few days, and we don't think it is going to go away in a hurry in the next maybe two weeks, three weeks, etcetera. So we'll have to keep our weight and watch on that. Yes. Okay. Thank you so much. Yes. Thank you, sir. We have next question from the line of Prakash Kapadia from Innovate Portfolio Managers. Please go ahead. Yeah. Hi. I have two questions. You know? One is what is the contribution of batches currently? And, you know, we had launched the 10 rupee bottle. So if you could give some color on that and, you know, going forward, we see increased contribution from sachet and the low LUPs to our ADHO sale. See, at this moment, it is about 14%, and we have seen a steady decline of the over time. So really speaking, have not been doing well for quite some time. Quite a few quarters, not only this particular quarter. And as I said, I mean, it's a little difficult to just to gauge as to what might be happening there. But clearly, we see, in our markets, they clearly move move towards the larger packs because people are making lesser visits to the marketplace, etcetera. And in the in the rural market, the move is more towards the cheaper products, which you are getting a higher value for money rather than look at higher end products with the smaller pack sizes, etcetera. So so this is something we are keeping a watch on. And I don't think 10 rupee has really taken a this thing from the 1 rupee sachet. So we have also actually launched our 1 rupee Amla sachet, which has just gone to the market, just hitting the markets now. So we would also like to see how the two play out. I mean, mean, that's it. Three ml, 3.5 k, and now three ml session, which is hitting the market in terms of Honda. So we'd also like to see how those two play out and maybe another two, three months, we would be able to get a better sense of what is happening in the marketplace. Is it because of the price of the product that is coming out? Is it the overall price of the entire package itself? So we'll have to see that. And this actually was one point of time was around 25%, right, if I remember correctly? 25%. For a period of time, that was declined from around 25 So it was about 18%. 17, 18%. So now that has down to so there has been not a sharp decline that we have seen in searches. But, yes, clearly, the trend is visible. Chances are not something that is, like, exploding or even in this market condition where you are seeing people are down trading, so you would expect that they will go and buy those one to 15. That is not something that has been going up too much. It is more that you are seeing the little larger pack sizes, which are now little larger price points, which are doing well, which is if you look at rural, the 5 rupee, 10 rupee, and the 20 rupee tax are pretty pretty okay. And secondly, you know, on our dividend distribution or, you know, our payout ratio earlier, I think we had a policy of distributing large part of our profits. I think average payout has been around 85%. So now, you know, I think last financial year, there was a pattern that they would then payout. So what's the it is the capital allocation or the dividend payout policy? Because businesses like us don't require too much of cash. So what's the stated objective now on, you know So see, as we discussed, I mean, as we discussed during our June call, so I think at that point of time, the more the understanding at the board level was that at this moment, cash rather we conserve because we still don't know how it is going to hit. Even today as we look at, I mean, we are still expecting that come September when actually those moratorium on all these EMIs, etcetera, stop. I mean, we want to see how consumer behavior actually operates when the disposable incomes will sharply fall. So if you are to look at the kind of cash results that we are sitting at, 100 odd crores that we are sitting at, really speaking, it's not a very large amount. And, clearly, I don't think that dividend distribution policy, etcetera, will go through substantial changes. Maybe this year, we wanted to conserve cash. Maybe we we play a little conservative, and I I know how the how all of you reacted and how all of you feel about it. But I would think that going forward, not too much of changes in our way of thinking, etcetera, will happen. At this moment, it's a very extraordinary year. We wanted to conserve cash, and that's how we have kept it. But there is no change in the policy, you're saying? I don't think there was any policy stated as such, and I don't think there'll be any thought process change as far as the thing is concerned. So the conservation of cash, see, we don't as you rightly said, we don't require cash for working capital even if we were to go even if suppose business were to go up, working capital requirement seems very unlikely. Right? So so then it comes to CapEx. Now CapEx, obviously, there might be a bit here and there, so not really large CapExes. But, yes, there are obviously something that we might want to work on. M and A is clearly something that we'll keep a watch on. Now whether how much cash will require not require, whether we'll go into it, having had an Omaxx experience, we really don't know. But that is not something that we would want to rule out in a hurry. Now if that were to be there, the balance is anywhere there in the company for us to look at how we want to do that. So so this is something that we would want to keep going forward. What are the yields currently we are witnessing after the falling interest rates on this problem? So pardon me? Can you repeat the question, please? What are the current yields after the recent fall in interest rate? See, it's in the range. As you all know, that we have a conservative investment policy by the board in which we invest only in triple a, PSU bonds or in liquid mutual funds. So and on an average, we on a yield of around five to 6%. Between five. Yes. Lastly, know, any update on the moving to the corporate office at Worley? Is it done or done? It been pending since quite a few years. Early office. Yeah. So, see, the early office, as far as we are concerned, we have just applied for the approvals. I think the approvals some of the basic approvals will just come in place. And I think in the next two, three years, etcetera, you would see some movement that is happening in terms of the things. So approvals most of the approvals are now in place. Even as we speak just about two, three days back, some more approvals are in place, and this is something that we'll keep looking at. And This thing will take another two to three years to At least a building to come up, definitely. Maybe we'll look at if everything goes right. Maybe we'll be looking at construction within the next one year or so. Yeah. Thank you. All the best. Thank you, sir. We have a next question from the line of Mr. Rukwakaria from Lucky Investment Managers. Please go ahead. Good afternoon, Jagdeep. My question is likely of a broader nature. I am saying that COVID is something that nobody anticipated, so let's forget about that. But before you made a decision to join Bajaj consumer from one of the most prestigious consumer institutions in India today, you must have looked at their business very, very closely. Now the consensus in the market has been that Bajaj consumer is in a category which is almond oil, which is dead and which is not going to grow and which is never going to grow. We have seen this happening in various consumer companies across cycles for three years, and then suddenly, they get their mojo back because they get some strategy change and they'll reinvent the brand. I want to ask you what is your inherent belief without without guidance on what will happen next quarter or quarters or two quarters? Forget about that. I'm saying what is your inherent belief on what can be organic growth rate in the Bajaj almond hair oil category if you get your strategy right? What is the potential? See, first of all, that's a very how do I put it? It's a very specific question as to how I see Bajaj Amman hair drops growing itself because that's really not be the only part of the strategy. You I would rather want to take up a part of the question that you asked, which you did not ask me finally, but at least you started with that, which is basically how did I join this company. So if I were to just give you a background as to what I see as the strengths of this company. So I see two, three things as clear strengths of the company. One is that they have created a rock star brand. Right? I mean, I don't think anybody can deny that this is one of the best brands that has been created in this FMC space. I mean, clearly, no questions on that. Two is the household name of Bajaj itself. I think it's so strong. I mean, that inherently brings in trust. I mean, like it or not, that clearly is something that is trust. And the third thing, and which is more of my one to one, interaction with the promoter, I got a sense that there is a person who is extremely passionate about the business, wants to grow, and there is a desperate desire to grow. That to me give me enough cue saying that for the next few years, if I were to look at this business and maybe try and do something with it, there is a possibility. Because if you look at the first ten years or fifteen years since the IPO, I mean, the company had done fantastic deal or rather even before the IPO, rather. So after that, the last five years has been growth, has been muted, etcetera. So there is a lot of potential that exists in the company. Whether it can be harnessed or not, as you rightly said, I don't know. I have no no clue. But there is clear upside that is possible. Now whether it is through ADHO, beyond ADHO, I would rather think that there is has to be a mix of both. The answer cannot be only through ADHO. ADHO clearly needs to play a pivotal role in this, and there is some growth upside that is possible. You when you have a market share of 10% and you don't classify the market as just light hair oil and classify it as a hair oil, that itself gives you the balance 90% to play with. Now how much of it can be claimed? Much of it is utopian. Much of it might sound naive. My understanding in thirty years of my career is that it's not really anything nothing is naive. I mean, if you want to do something, it possibly is. Possibility is there. Right? You might feel you might succeed, but there is if you have some method in that madness, there is a possibility that you can do something. So this itself remain as well as, as I said, the inherent strengths of the Bajaj name being there, the kind of kind of financial prudence that the company has paid out and the way they have structured themselves. And a promoter was a very clear thought as to and the question that has this thing. I think there is some play that is there for the company's moving forward. That's very helpful, Jebi, in answering that question. I just had one more question on the same lines. You know, a lot of the consumer turnaround stories that we've seen, whether it's a Britannia or a Jubilant Food, were companies that were struggling at margins and never top line growth. So they all had depressed margins. Jubilant would maybe, for some extent, was struggling with top line growth also. Here is a unique case where the margins are never a problem, but the top line growth is a problem. Can you, you know, enlighten us a little bit on what can be the low hanging fruit? Example, in Britannia, they immediately came and reduced the A and P spend and got margins and not got growth also. In our case, what is that low hanging fruit which will drive? Because it's all about momentum. Right? Your largest the reason why I say balaja almond and oil again and again because your coke can grow only when coke grows. A Diet Coke cannot drive Coke's growth. So in your case, what is that one low hanging fruit if you if you can share with us which can drive the growth as a category and then push your company into momentum to grow all other products? I mean, I I think your answer lies in the question itself. I mean, if you look at I mean, there are only two things that can happen to our company. I mean, the top line crashes and bottom line I mean, obviously, I mean, good companies. I mean, decent company, let's say. Our top line crashes good bad, good EBITDA bad, whatever. Or the other way around where top line is going well, you don't have control. I mean, you have lost control on that, etcetera, that's a completely different story. I mean, that's a over leveraged loss control here just to mind mindlessly going up sales. I mean, that is can be a strategy, but not something that we are talking. So between the two, obviously, we are stuck in the first one where we really not been able to break the barrier in terms of top line numbers. Right? So now moment you look at it, as I said, there are these two things that you would look at. I mean, how much play that ADHO has left, which you would like to exploit. And as we did the strategy work with Bain, clearly told us there are still many places, even though we have a good market share, etcetera, etcetera, still many places where structurally you can play both structurally as well as tactically, you can play in these markets. Right? So that is something that, anyway, we'll keep in focus. Anyway, something that we would have, let's say, gone into a whole hog manner if this COVID has not happened, but something that we will anyway continue because this is something already can there with us. It's just as and when we exercise. We are already exercising parts of it. The other side is what else can we do do to drive growth? Now that that is a little more challenging question because of also the history that we have had. I mean, I think one of the first questions that we love to address as a group is why something what what are the things that we did in the last five years or a little more than that, and why did they not succeed? What are the things that cause failure? And what are the things that we will do in future, and what are the guarantee that they will not fail? I mean, most of the new things people do, there's a large percentage of figure that happened. I think that so there are some success stories there. So we have to figure out what are the strengths of the organization, what is that we can take it in our plate and chew, and look at chewing those to see whether we can drive that. So top line growth would obviously be a priority. I don't think there are many other choices that this organization has, and we'll have to figure out what are the things that can help us have a higher success rate, possible higher success rate. Whether it'll work or not, we don't know. But at least we have to make that attempt to ensure that the success percentage as you speculate is higher than lower. So something that we would want to do is maybe hold on to some some things that we plan to do. So hence, we would not like to go into a hurry and try and do something. We go a little more open eye, and when we do that, we remain committed to some of those. So that would be how we do that. Okay. Thank you for answering my question, and all the very best for you. Thank you, sir. We have next question from the line of Samad Singh from DPF Capital. Please go ahead. Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my question. I just wanted to go back to the question that know, that was discussed earlier regarding the cash balance. So is there a maximum, you know, amount that we have sort of borderline as the cash balance that we need regardless of the economic scenario, and then the remaining is all excess cash? See, this is this is really speaking very difficult to answer. How much cash is comfortable? I am not sure whether I mean, with our kind of cashes are very difficult. I mean, if we are sitting in really piles of cash, etcetera, then maybe it's a little easier to discuss easier to answer possibly. But with our kind of cash reserves, the 500 crores, etcetera, very difficult to say whether it's 300 and half, it's 200 and half, it's 600 and half, very difficult to say. Because you're looking at if you were to look at an m and a, etcetera, I I really don't know how much of it is who would be required to look at a opportunity like that. CapEx, unlikely. OpEx, unlikely. Working capital, really, no. So so so that is not where cash would be But if you are looking at some of these areas, yes. And as of now, as I said, our policy has been more be conservative, conserve the cash. It's not going anywhere. It will come back to wherever they need to be be at in going forward. So really speaking, that's the stance we have taken. So if you say, do we have a model for how much cash would be enough? How much should be the thing? With this kind of a volatile market scenario, I would say, I don't think we are we have been putting too much of stress or attention to that space. Okay. Thank you. And one last question. Do we have the an estimate on what the total spend will be for the the world ops? Sorry. Can you come again, please? The total spend for the world ops. World ops? Yeah. I I I'll get back to you on these numbers. I had some numbers there. I'll just get back to you. So I'll I'll come back to you. Okay. Thank you, sir. We have next question from the line of Sarvesh Gupta from Maximal Capital. Please go ahead. Good afternoon, sir. I just wanted to understand what has been the number of the sales number for June? And what is the trend that you are seeing in this month compared to June? Hey. June, obviously, as I said, we had a good month. You know, let's not get into the exact numbers, etcetera, but June was clearly a good month. If April was a a crash, so obviously, June were good, and June was better than May. Right? But July clearly is headwinds. July will clearly be definitely lower than June. How much lower, etcetera? I don't So really speaking, at this moment, I would like to be a little cautious to say that there'll be good growth that is happening. But, anyway, you have this quarter, which is a monsoon quarter, you always see there is a dip in our sales. I mean I mean, the fourth quarter is always the best of our months. First quarter to third quarter, a decent, and for second quarter is the one where it really goes down. Right? So this quarter, anyway, you were expecting little lower sales. But July, clearly, the atmosphere is also much lesser and in sort of a typical 15% drop that you see see quarter to quarter, this quarter maybe even higher. I don't know. So but July looks to be difficult. Yeah. Understood, sir. And in terms of your ad expense, I assume that it has been very low for the June quarter. So will it be so q two of this year, would it be similar to q two of last year, or how are you planning on that front? See, again, that's that's where this volatility comes in. If you are asking this question seven days back, I would have been a little more confident than I would have been telling you, yes. You can expect that, and you can take that as a guideline. At this moment, if you ask me, I really don't know. Because if if what we are seeing this thing, you might be thinking that I am reacting too much on the news that is coming out as far as as far as these lockdowns are concerned. But really speaking, we would rather be prudent rather than going too aggressive in terms of ad spends, etcetera. So we would like to see how the market plays out. And as I said, we would rather operate fortnight by fortnight as far as ad spends are concerned. And that is how we would want to give our commitment rather than commit for the quarter or for even the month or so. So at this moment, it's more on quarter to quarter existence. Earlier thought was we would want to remain on air at similar levels, but at this moment, we'll like to think. This particular side, we are still on air just like as it is, but we'll going forward, we'll have to see how it operates. And, sir, lastly, you know, on this MMA front, so are you actively look is there a strategy to the new any new M and A that you are evaluating? So if you can highlight, you know, what are the two, three metrics or two, three points that you are looking at with respect to any potential m and a? And how active is that process in because we do have cash balance. So and as you said that this can be put only for an m and a. Otherwise, there is obviously no reason for keeping such high cash level, which we appreciate because there might be some potential opportunities in this depressed market. See, if Absolutely. See, if you look at, as far as the place that for the company is concerned, that are pretty limited. If you look at most of this phase has been already exercised by the company in the last ten years in some manner or the other. Right? So, I mean, what are the place that are that the company has if you were to look at? I mean, you look at the ADHO, increasing salience of ADHO. You look at playing in some of the other hair oils that are there, because there's a typical adjacencies. Adjacentencies across across FMCG space where you can actually capitalize on the Bajaj name. Then you are looking at the within the country, looking at some of the markets where you are not represented, can we dial that up? Looking at modern trade ecommerce, can we dial that up? Because compared to our competitors, we are a little weaker in that. Is that possible? And last year, left with M and A's within the country and outside. International markets clearly is a area where we are weak, and we have really not had very considered strategies going forward. Now whether that will happen, not happen, whether we'll have to worry about what kind of timeline. So I think we'll we are at the you know, the drawing board, and we are looking at that. Now in that space, both local, I mean, that is domestic as well as international, we'll keep scouting and we are scouting. Now whether it'll happen, not happen, just because of valuations, because of attractive valuations, because attractive valuations also come with riders that market conditions are also poor. So we'll have to evaluate that, but that is something there in our handbook. Whether it will happen, whether if you are saying, do I have an active M and A target that I am pursuing today? No. But is it there in the back of mind? Are we counting down? So this is where we are today. Understood, sir. All the best for the coming quarters. Thank you. Thank you, sir. We have next question from the line of Ankit Babil from Slubcom Ventures. Please go ahead. Good afternoon, sir. So my question again pertains to your growth with the two to three year three to four year point of view. Now if you see the last three, four years performance, now the company has two major issues. One was the promoter pledge, and second was the consistent spread growth in revenues and profit. So now the flat issue is only over, but, you know, growth still remains a concern as there is less visibility. Now I would like to know your view with a two to three year perspective. What kind of growth CAGR do feel is possible for the company? Now why I'm asking this question is because the track record is of a flat growth. And last year, in the analyst meet, promoter mentioned that we are targeting for 25% CAGR for the next three, four, five years, you know, led by gaining market share and on the overall category and focusing Correct. Purely on this or ADHD business. So one was that question, and second question is that nonhistorically, again, if I said the last three, four years or five years, our EBITDA margin range was in the thirty thirty one to 33%, but management had guided for increasing advertisement expenditure to, you know, focus on growth. So with the next three, four years perspective, what kind of sustainable margins we should look at it? See, while I would see, let's let's go ahead with, firstly, the the direction that we had taken for the company of doubling our market share in the heroic space. I think that was an ambition that still continues. I don't see why we can why we need to deviate from that ambition that we have. Now whether that would happen in five years, etcetera, I think we'll drop a little more strategically as to where because market conditions have also changed since those announcements were made. And today, we are looking at a far more unpredictable volatile market share. So market conditions. So we really don't know whether the timelines can still be met because this year has been a washout. We don't know what impact it will have on the next year, etcetera. But that is a that is a great ambition that we'll keep on our plate because that is something that we would want to tell. Parallelly, these are also options that we would want to explore out of the ones that we just discussed because those are there on our plate. Not too many others are there on our plate. Right? So these are something that we would like to see, and we'll see what we can prioritize. Keeping in mind where our success success chances are a little higher. Now in terms of direction, while I would not be able to tell you as to what other things we'll choose, etcetera, because as I said, that you might have to wait for a few quarters before we really come out with something. At this moment, we'd rather focus on operational experience and getting our process and systems a little stronger as a company. But in terms of direction, the way we would like to do is we will obviously want to drive top line growth. That would remain a priority. And EBITDA is an absolute number we would want to drive. So if that means a bit of drop in the EBITDA percentages, whether it be through ad spends or whether it any other initiatives that we take, that is something that possibly will happen. So EBITDA margins might look at a dip if we are able to look at the top line growth. I mean, we can't have a situation where EBITDA margins drop and the top line doesn't go. So that is something that we would want to drive as a Okay. Sir, see, again, sorry to harp on the same thing again because the gap is too big. I mean, the ambition is a 25% growth. I understand that COVID issue and is and that's the reason I'm asking with a two to four years perspective. Now the the track record is of a flat growth, and the ambition is a twenty five percent growth. So somewhere in between, I mean, rather than speculating numbers, I would rather want to deliver some numbers and then talk. At this moment, I don't think we are I have a credibility of talking of any any kind of numbers because, I mean, finally, you deliver the numbers and then then you on top of that, this is aspiration. So I would rather wait on the numbers, whether it be 25, twenty, fifteen, 10, or something. At the moment, we are looking at more zero to five. Right? That's where we are. So let's get out of that block first, and then maybe look at that. Obviously, intent wise, we might have a lot of aspirations and interest. Unless we classify them, really speaking, there's no point talking of numbers. Good. So that's absolutely. Sir, what kind of tax rate are we expecting for the next two to three years? Yeah. This moment, the the tax rate so should we continue? That math thing math tax will be further continuing. So our tax rate is at about 17.5%, which is down from the 21.45 that you saw last year. So that's what it remains. Okay. And for last Sir, I'm sorry to interrupt. Would you like to come back in the question queue, mister Bhavan? Okay. Thank you. In the interest of time, participants are requested to restrict questions to one per participant. We have next question from the line of Disha Shed from Anvil Wealth. Please go ahead. Hello? Yeah. Hi. Just to repeat the question. So when you said 17% diesel, they are on here. So the almond oil has been down 25% and sanitizers have grown, if you can See, sanitizers, so there is no growth. So sanitizers has created that space for that single digit single digit contribution to the portfolio. Amundroff has go dropped by about 23 and a half percent. So then 17%? How is that? Hello? So 23 and a half percent is ADHO. Overall, Herbal portfolio is 25%, and almond drop is added to a your hand sanitizers has added to the portfolio, the single digit contribution to the sales. So that has made it to minus seven. Okay. Okay. Okay, sir. That's it from my side. Thank you. Thank you. We have next question from the line of Shubham Agarwal from Centrum Broking Limited. Please go ahead. Hi. Thank you for the for the in the question. My question was related to the again. You decided that we'll be looking back to go back to 18%, and you said that we are contextually implementing the game strategy with project to start again. So is my understanding right that we are going full schedule decided that we are again we will again start implementing projects after guiding for the fall in main tenant in due to fall. And secondly, if you can give out the volume decline in three days, so just to be sure. So so see, as far as the volume decline is concerned, the same volume decline was there. It was 23%, 23 and a half percent is the volume decline as well. So there has been no price change that has happened during this quarter. And as far as the as far as your project, we start strategy is concerned, I would I would like to change the narrative a bit. I would not say that we would come back and start project with car when we come back. At this stage itself, we are doing whatever is the partially relevant of that project. Think project Vizcar was a more comprehensive strategy. Right? I mean, a complete strategy, both RT and GTM as to how you would want to approach the market. So entire thing is the marketing angle of it, the trade part of it, how you would want to go into distribution, etcetera. Now in this COVID situation, some part of it is relevant, some part of it is not. The part that is relevant, which is in terms of distribution, penetration, etcetera, we are already activating in terms of tweaking with our trade schemes. Those are things we already do to make it a little more effective. It's more tactical kind of a stuff. The the part that is requiring to look at our ad spends, looking at how the ads need to be delivered to the consumers, That is something that we are working on, and we'll keep changing it as and when the markets open. So it's not something not something that we played a stop to it and then again, we started something. It's going on in continuum, and we are adjusting based on what is what will be relevant and what will bring us the bang for the buck in this current situation. Okay. Thank you. Just a bookkeeping question. The ASP which we give out as 12.97, is it from the ATL detail activities, or does it even include the trade discounts and offers? No. No. It is mainly the ATL, BTL activities. Okay. Thank you. That's all for me. All the best. Thank you. So we have the next question from the line of Saurabh Patois from HDFC Mutual Fund. Please go ahead. Yes, Saurabh. Thanks for taking my question again, sir. Just one quick question. So based on what we have done, sir, so we had a we did a lot of A and P spending in first part of fourth quarter and which and there was a lockdown and we lost some sales out of it. Again, was a lockdown in first quarter and subsequently sales recovered. So would it be fair to just merge these two quarters and then compare it with the last two quarters of the last year? And see, because if you do that, then it comes to fairly close kind of EBITDA margin that you would have guided, say, like around 22% because otherwise, we see a very sharp fall in fourth quarter and very sharp rise in EBITDA margins in first quarter. So would it be fair to assume that fair to compare the merged quarter of the two? And also taking into account a 10% hand sanitizer sale, I believe, last year. So then it comes to around, like, a 27% kind of a decrease Y o Y on a merged basis. So just wanted your thoughts on that. And is are we looking at it if I look at it in this way, will it be fair? It's a very interesting question. I don't know how you want to, I mean, judge fairness. I mean, we can cherry pick, and sometimes cherry picking actually gives a a fair picture. So let me tell you where possibly some of the flaws might remain. Now Yeah. While we add the six six months together, and obviously, we just do analysis against the previous six months. Obviously, it misses out that entire story of what happened during, let's say, the March 23 to the May 15 or May 20. As far as the retail offtakes are concerned, I'm not talking of primary sales, secondary sale, you might have recovered as I as I told you in my narrative. I mean, seven days of sale that seven days of stocking that dropped in March, came back in June, etcetera. I mean, all that is fine. But the retail off take that went off completely, that is not something that you can replicate and do a modeling to try and match saying that, okay. This must have been the impact of it. So so I really don't know how you would be able to do that math in terms of the top line growth. So that minus 27% that you are talking about is not something that I would be able to do a one to one mapping and sticky because then you have to get into speculation mode. He had then had then twenty third March to fifteenth April been consumer off takes been normalized. How can I normalize? So, I mean, you guys are better at modeling than I am, so you would be able to do that. But yeah. So so really speaking but if you're looking at the base absolute numbers in terms of EBITDAs, etcetera, yes, I think you have a good point there that the base EBITDA as a percentage number, if you look at, that remains more or less similar. So really speaking, that is where we are today. We have been able to recover some of the lost ground. I don't think a great work or something that has happened in this quarter, but clearly, some of the lost ground that we lost in March, we have been able to come back. So I don't think there's some more to be read into this. Okay. And just one thing on this large size SK which you mentioned. How much they would have broadly contributed this quarter or maybe how much incremental they would have contributed more from the normal trend? Just let me look at the numbers. I three hundred and five hundred. Let me revert back to you. I don't have it offhand with me. I know that the sale went up. Let me just revert back. Let me just tell you this. Just hang on. Give me a moment. Wait. So it is basically if you look at, there has been, let's say, a $503,100 if you were to put together from a 24%, the single contribution has gone up to 26 and point 1%. So so clearly a 2% increase of contribution that has happened in the tuition. In fact in fact, if you look at 200 level, there, the contribution has gone up by about two and a half percent. So if you take 200, 300, and 500, the contribution of these three packs is more than four and a half percent. So that's a substantial job. Okay. Okay. Thanks a lot. Yes. Thank you, sir. We have next question from the line of Parthip Jonsa from MBS Brokerage. Please go ahead. Yes. Hi. Sir, I all those follow-up questions were covered by the participants, but I have one question. You said the July sales will be impacted and June was much better and all. So can we just throw some light considering right now any growth in the volume and value of across the segment? And even you said that sustaining the top line we are trying to sustain the top line and whereas we don't mind compromising EBITDA to a certain level. So my question is what kind of top line do you see in going forward, maybe say next two or three years? And what is the best possible EBITDA margin you are comfortable with? So say, again, this is a little bit of a speculative situation. Yes. That's fine. I just wanted to understand your internal understanding of the company. What do you feel going, say, today, we are at about 800 crores, INR $8.70 odd crores of top line in FY 2020? And what do you feel by, say, FY 2022? And what kind of EBITDA margin you are best comfortable with? That below this, we are not comfortable? About this, anything is fine for us? Your internal understanding. Absolutely. Fair enough. So I'll just begin at a very, very broad level and Sure. Just nothing to do with exact strategy that we'll come out with or whether they'll match or not. If you're talking on a very broad level in a thought process level, I would not have a situation where we are not touching double digit top line at any particular year come what may. Now this year, obviously, we will not do that, but this is a aberration year. I would like to think this is an aberration year. So that is something that we would want to do as we think. Now how much of double digit, etcetera, I don't know, but that is something that we would want to do as a organization. There are also the ways I mean, whichever way. Okay. Whatever our posting plan. As far as EBITDA is concerned, clearly, I don't think there are a huge drop that you would I would be comfortable with. I would like absolute EBITDAs to grow, and then at least a 3% kind of a drop is I'm fine with. Nothing less than that. Nothing EBITDA margin. EBITDA margin. Nothing more than that drop because that will again structurally start to paying with us. And that is not something that we would see, this is something that we have built up over a long time. A strong gross margin orientation, 65% plus kind of a orientation in gross margin. Now that is obviously a little utopian if you were to proliferate the range. You You would not always build such rock star brands, which in FMCG market, even FMCG markets where where basically you can operate with a two thirds kind of a gross margin. So this is this may not be replicable, but we would like to have build brands which are sustainable on their own. That is something that is very, very clear, not even at a not even at a incremental costing or a or a marginal costing basis. Right? On its own, they should be able to stand up on that. Okay. And this quarter, I think you had like a mid teen drop in the top line. So what is your expectation for FY 2021? Again, as I said, I mean, I don't know how much July will end up. So I would not want to speculate as to how 2021 will Okay. I think we will be better, you know, after h one result, feel. No. I think I can see if if you have some stability, even if there is a market share lapse, if you know that this is what is going to remain, I think I can give you a number. Otherwise, it's just in the answer. Correct, correct, correct. Absolutely, absolutely. Best of luck, sir, and thank you so much for the answers. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you, sir. We have next question from the line of Suresh Kumar from Insight Edge. Thank you very much for the opportunity. This question is for Mr. Zaibib. Earlier, the management has articulated that they want to grow Heroin market sales from 10% to 20% and top line to something around four times of the existing top line. So my first question is, does that vision still hold? Or are we reworking on that? And if that vision holds, how much role Amundra Sveral is going to play on that? And what other products will be helping us? Okay. So two actually little bit correction. One is that it was not stated that top line will go by four times. It was bottom line will take a increase of four times. Top line, I mean, with a stable kind of a market, it was expected that the top line will be, I mean, double or a little more than more than that, not four times. So so that's anyway, that's besides the point. Second thing is the the vision was growth in hair oil itself. The vision was not outside hair oil. How can we grow this top line? So so that was the stated vision. And the point remains that that vision can also play in conjunction with other strategies in the company. One single vision is not will be the forbearing the single vision. That vision still holds. I don't think there is anything in the company that weakens the vision or anything that the company is going to do or trying to do is going to change that vision completely. Whether we end up with what kind of numbers, etcetera, is something that we love to see. As a company as a company creates a vision that is not always that it will always be able to reach that vision. That is something that you want it at the end of the tunnel. That is where we want to go. That's the aspiration. And that aspiration for us still remains because we are still a very, very strong predominantly not predominantly, only heroics company, and nothing is going to change in a hurry. Parallelly, having said that, parallelly, we also explore where else we can play, if at all, and then we look forward to this. Sir, just if I may ask one, say, years down the line, though it is too distant in future, but today, ADHO is something around 90% on an average. What contribution do you see or does the company see ADHO will be making in the top line five years down the line? ADHO will remain predominantly there, but what percentage it will contribute, ideally, cannot say. It's a function of what we are able to deliver at the I think, strategically, as I said, we will be looking at maximizing a d ADHO's strength and looking at what else what else we can deliver through ADHO's as as the main strategy give us. I mean, are lot of other spaces that we can play into. I mean, spaces as in geographical and market tax sizes that we can play play into. That is something that we'll try and explore. But what percentage you will contribute, etcetera, is a function of what strategic directions we take, which will also keep evolving. Because this is not a company where we have a strategic direction with a lot of portfolios, and we have had success in that. So if at all we see something going forward, maybe we will dial it up, etcetera. It is being very difficult to comment on that. But, yeah, I understand where you are coming from. So overall, if that were to be successful, and that's a big if, if that were to be successful, ADHOs naturally, savings will go down as a company. Thank you very much. Thank you, sir. We have next question from the line of Suresh Pardeshi from Centrum Brokings. Please go ahead. Yes, Suresh. Yes. Hi, Jaydeep. Hi, Malu sir. Just few questions. I think most of them are answered. I just wanted to understand this project, Vistar, which is run by Bain, we still have the continuity with Ben and company in terms of consultancy or we have dispatched? No. See, if you look at look at the project itself, I think let me just clarify what the project was. The project was clearly I mean, the headline project was very clear that how do we accelerate growth through through this strategy. So this was divided into two parts. One is in terms of looking at partitioning of each of the states, micro segmentation of the states, looking at opportunities in each of the states. We said that the states are completely different. I mean, India is a country contributes to multiple countries in that sense. And hence, let's look treat each of the states separately, and especially the states we are interested in, which is the English speaking markets. Right? So so that is what we embarked on. We started with West Bengal then went into UP. The second part of the main work that they did with us is actually help us implement some of these strategies. Basically, handhold us into how we wanted to implement this strategy. So at one end, they were doing the strategic work in terms of partitioning, looking at what are the segments we want to operate, how we would want to penetrate, etcetera. So that was happening. And with the lag, the implementation was happening. So we started this work in July. The West Bengal got started implementation, then the partitioning, etcetera, continued. UP got started implementation. So Bain we had Bain for the implementation of these two states. It was more a learning exercise for our own people, the marketing people, field people, just to get this understanding as to how we would want to implement. Right? So in the month of January, February, March, we also fast track the partitioning of all the other Hindi speaking markets. And most of the markets of interest have already got partitioned. So the partitioning mode is completely implement already done. So all the data is already available with us for us to work on. Now it's a question of implementation. And the two implementations, already lot of learning has happened for our own team as to how to implement what strategy and directions we would take. So we have to take a call whether we still want participation in terms of implementing certain tactical moves that we have, or we would want to do it together. At this moment, we have decided that we will take it on ourselves because this is something. And if you require help hand holding it once more to help us improve implement this tactical moves, how do I operate a trade, then how how do you differentiate trade schemes, etcetera, which is obviously a far more evolved than what earlier we were doing. Obviously, there's a lot of value that has had for that. If we feel that we require help to help us implement, we'll have that. But at this moment, strategic work that was there has already been done. There's no additional strategic work that is. Okay. So the the contingency charges which we have paid in the FY '20 would have the same effect in FY '21 or will have on lead basis? That's what I said. So in case we at this moment, we are seeing whether we can implement whatever has been given to us and whether we can implement in our own. And we have already, as I said, contextually, we are already implementing some of the some of the recommendations that have come out of the team and everything. So at this moment, I mean I remember. For this particular this particular assignment, whether we will again increase with BN or something, we really don't know. I mean, at this moment, if you are able to implement what we have decided for ourselves, we might want to continue with that. If you feel that, no, we are not able to implement what has been recommended to us, maybe we'll engage back. At this moment, the thought is more towards the former than that. Okay. My second question is on CFD business. I mean, last seven, eight quarters, CFD business is very, very volatile. And we are lucky that in q one, you have said you got about half the road order. Do you think this business has some potential in the rest of the year? See, CSD business, clearly, if you're looking at today, the concern in CSD is more than the business. There is a clear concern as far as the credit that is that we are exposed to, right? Even with this small kind of business, one thing that we want to be clear is that we don't want to pay in a situation where we get stuck on credit. So this is something that we'll also treat a little carefully Because CSD itself, the structuring has changed. Today, as you are aware, people that they can go there is a limit to how much they can spend in a CSD campaign as far as any of these armed forces people have. Right? So so a of structural changes have happened. We would also like to we'd obviously like to keep a watch on CSG and try to maximize that as such as that. But we are also wanting to keep a close watch on the credit that we need to give in terms of the data, and we would not want to go haywire on that. So you would not want to go aggressive in any customer, whether it's modern trade, whether it in whether it be CSG or anybody else where credit credit even not even a risk. Even if there is a longer credit, we would rather want to avoid that and playing places where the trade is much more deep. It is as you are aware, we operate with a zero credit situation. Everything is advanced. That is what I'm comfortable with. We work with them to. Okay. My next question is on slides while you have given value and volume growth on the category. Would you be able to help me? What is the q four category growth for hair oil and q one category growth decline? Q one, just the q four? Because I had the bad growth. Let me just dig out the q four growths. So what I'm looking for, light, hairl, and overall. Okay. See, overall, YTD February, as I said, was I think it is part of the presentation that you are seeing. 3.7% growth as far as math level is concerned, and March had a decline of 6.9%. Right? So Yeah. I got that. I was asking for q one I mean, q four, Jan, March, and April, June. Jan April, June. Sir, if you can take this number offline with me? Oh, one second. One second. So, sir, let me understand your question first. You want April, June of last year, is it? No. I'm saying For April, June. Yeah. Right. June, March. Data is not yet out. Right? June data will be out by July 21. So I have April and May at this rate. July June, I don't have. I mean, the market the data is not there. Nielsen has not yet come Don't worry. I'll I'll take it from Kushal. My name is Kushal. Message. Yeah. I'm taking note of it. We'll just send it. Sir, I'm sorry to interrupt. We have to we have ran the call call due to time constraint, mister Pradeshi. Just last one question. I mean, since you have not discussed, I'm asking. If maybe you can say something on the raw material because we've seen that there is a decline in LNP. So how do you see the rest of the year for raw material? See, LNP, as you saw, I mean, our costing is at 56.64 or some such number. Right? I mean, which is basically our average costing as far as the cost of material is concerned. Obviously, that is because we are carrying forward earlier earlier higher priced LLP. At this moment, our landed cost of LLP is about 48 rupees. So going forward, obviously, that benefits will accrue because, you know, we'll be consuming price at a which is at a much lower price. On the other side, you see RMO, which is all on the upward trend. So RMO is going up. So overall, you might see about a one and a half percent to 2% kind of a change in terms of pricing, which we'll try and see how we can get back to the customer through trade offers, consumer offers, trade schemes, consumer offers. Okay. Okay. Thank you, and all the best. Thank you very much, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I would now like to hand the conference over to mister Manoj Menon of ICSI Securities for comments. Over to you, sir. Vikram, I I think it's inappropriate to say we are closing the call due to time constraints. You know, this is one of the longest calls in our end, fifteen minutes. And the personal thanks to, you know, Jaydeep, Maluji, and Kushal for actually taking time out and responding to about 18 investor questions after a detailed presentation in the beginning. All the best team, over to you for any final comments. No. Thank you. It was, in fact, very interesting. This was my first investor call. I have been attending board meets throughout my last twenty years, but this was the first investor call. So it's a new experience for me. And I take also guidance from all of you guys, lots of questions, which are pretty thoughtful looking from our end as well. And we would also like to factor that in as we go forward. Thanks so much. Thank you very much, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of ICICI Securities Limited, that concludes today's conference call. Thank you for joining with us, and you may now disconnect your lines.

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