Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Bajaj Consumer Care Limited Q4 FY 2023 earnings conference call hosted by ICICI Securities Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Karan Bhuwania from ICICI Securities Limited. Thank you, and over to you.
Thanks, Ray. Good morning, everyone. It's our pleasure at ICICI to host Q4 FY 2023 results conference call for Bajaj Consumer Care. From the management, we have Mr. Jaideep Nandi, Managing Director, Mr. Dilip Kumar Maloo, CFO, and Mr. Richard D'Souza, AVP Finance. I would like to hand over the call to Mr. Jaideep Nandi for his opening remarks post that which we can open for Q&A session. Thank you.
Thank you, Karan, for hosting this call. Good morning, everyone. I am pleased that all of you have joined this call, taking time out. Let me now take you through the performance of the company for the quarter and for the full year 31st, ended March 31st, 2023, before we open the floor for the questions. Starting with the market, the overall hair oil market saw a margin decline of 0.8% in terms of volume and a similar value decline compared to the previous quarter of the previous year, corresponding quarter of the previous year. Urban markets recovered to register a growth of 4.1% in volume and 3.7% in value.
While rural markets are showing signs of recovery but still remain subdued, with declines of 6.2% and 5.6% respectively for volume and value, it having improved from the previous quarters. Q4 hair oil market trend is better than compared to the earlier quarter, as declines in premium categories like Ayurvedic and LHO has also reduced. On a long-term basis, March 2023, the gradual recovery is also visible, with the market decline reducing, resulting in overall hair value decline of 2.8% and volume decline of 2.5%. The company reported quarterly standalone sales of INR 241 crores, resulting in an 11.7% value growth and a 9.9% volume growth as compared to the corresponding quarter of the previous year.
For FY 2023, reported sales stood at INR 938.1 crores, delivering a growth of 8.4% in terms of value and 5.6% in terms of volume compared to the previous year. On a consolidated basis, revenues grew by 9.5% in FY 2023, with international business registering a strong growth of 56%. Gross margin for the quarter stood at 54%, which was lower by 210 basis points compared to the corresponding quarter of the previous year, mainly owing to commodity price inflation. Sequentially, however, over Q3 FY 2023, gross margins improved by 110 basis points, with softening of key raw material costs in the recent past. For the 12 months ended, gross margins stood at 53.4%.
LLP prices for the quarter was higher by 9% compared to the same period previous year. However, on a sequential basis, LLP prices were lower by 7% on account of benign demand scenario. RPO prices saw a decline of 22% compared to the previous year and on a sequential basis, about 12% on account of good harvest crop and overall correction in the edible oil complex. While inflationary pressures have softened compared to the previous quarter on account of the easing in commodity prices, we see the same remaining range bound in the near term. Our continuous focus on cost-saving measures through implementation of various initiatives has helped us gain structural reduction in material cost and overheads.
A&P spend for the quarter was at 17.2% of sales, with the absolute spend remaining at the same levels as compared to the corresponding quarter of the previous year, as well as to the previous sequential quarter as well. For FY 2023, A&P spend stood at 18.2% of sales, translating to an increase of 18.9% in absolute terms over the same period last year. The significant increase in A&P spends is in account of increased investments in MPGs and digital media, which is part of our long-term strategy of diversifying our portfolio beyond LHO. EBITDA for the quarter was at INR 43.3 crores, which is a 12% growth in absolute terms over the same period last year.
EBITDA margin for the quarter was at 17.9%, which is an increase of 280 basis points and 27% in absolute terms sequentially over quarter three FY 2023. PAT for the quarter was at INR 40.7 crores. For the 12 months ended, EBITDA was at INR 146.2 crores and PAT at INR 140 crores. In Q4 FY 2023, general trade registered a growth of 6% year-on-year and around 7% on a sequential basis over quarter three. The rural demand continues to remain subdued in quarter four FY 2023, though it has been showing signs of recovery. High teen growth in urban offset the decline in rural, resulting in overall 7% growth in general trade as mentioned.
Urban initiatives of top city approach, both, INR 10 lakh population and INR 5 lakh population, strengthening distribution reach in metros, top-end retail focus with investment in store visibility have now started bearing fruit. Wholesale loyalty programs in key urban markets with specific focus on entities have also worked very well. This has resulted in both retail as well as wholesale registering double-digit growth. Modern trade and e-commerce continue to report strong growth in quarter four as both channels continue to scale up well on a year-on-year as well as sequential basis. Significant market share gains have been made in key accounts, both in modern trade as well as e-commerce. Modern trade grew by 51.4% in quarter four FY 2023 compared to the corresponding quarter of the previous year and now contributes to about 9% of our total sales.
Modern trade business has scaled up 2.2x over the last two years. Increased investments in visibility, merchandising support, better on ground execution has helped consistently scale up our business. In modern trade, we saw good sale happening in the Republic Sale Week, where we saw good footfalls in major modern trade chains. E-commerce business is scaling up well. It recorded a growth of 63% in quarter four FY 2023 compared to the previous year, and more than doubled in FY 2023 over last year. E-commerce business now contributes to about 7% of our total sales. This channel has also been instrumental in scaling up our premium NPD portfolio in the year. Consolidated international business reported a robust growth of 151% in quarter four FY 2023 compared to the same period over the previous year.
On a full year consolidated basis, international business has been scaling up well with a 56% top line growth compared to the previous year. New channel partners appointed in major countries in Middle East and Africa have started generating good results. Local manufacturing has commenced in Bangladesh in quarter four, while manpower up-gradation and distribution expansion in that country is under progress. The country reported good growth in quarter four, albeit on a low, low base, and will remain a focus market for us in the coming years. New countries and product introductions have also led to strong growth in the rest of world geographies. During the quarter, ADHO registered a growth of 11.4% in value terms compared to the corresponding quarter of the previous year, and also 10.4% sequentially over quarter three.
Continuous media support has been provided for ADHO across TV and digital. Kiara Advani, our latest brand ambassador for ADHO, has featured in a series of high energy marketing campaigns and events. The social media activity towards the ADHO campaign, "" registered over a crore views. The Almond campaign, Superfood for Super Hair, has been gaining momentum. Through community marketing, INR 24 lakh people were reached out in 180 online communities, with SOF registering an increase from 17% to 23%. The new products sales doubled in FY 2023 to INR 113 crores and now contribute 12% of our overall sales. Considerable growth and distribution penetration has been witnessed in Almond Drops extensions, that is Almond Soap, Almond Plus Argan, as well as Serum with Oil, which has been encouraging.
Almond Soap was supported through TV media as well as sampling to drive trials. Almond Argan and Almond Serum with Oil were available on all key e-commerce platforms and also got listed in select modern trade chains in quarter four. The ad extensions were supported with off-platform digital activation to build awareness and on-platform spends to drive conversions. Our digital brands, Bajaj 100% Pure and Natyv Soul, continue to be supported with visibility on e-commerce platforms. Natyv Soul portfolio is now being consolidated with hero ingredient, the Argan oil-based products in conditioner, shampoo, hair oils and serum to ensure focused marketing spends. We remain committed to build our digital portfolio steadily in the premium personal care space. Our Coconut portfolio continues to perform well. Consumer offtake and distribution build up over the year has been yielding results.
Print media support was provided in select markets to build awareness. Coconut continues to do well, and the share of Amla portfolio remains steady in mid-single digits across all India levels. As far as ESG is concerned, we continue to work on our ESG agenda and are driving our improvement in various areas of our operations. We continue to work towards reduction of carbon footprint and Greenhouse Gas emissions and strive to reduce its impact. Steps have been taken to reduce consumption of packing material per liter of oil sold by optimization and usage of specification. Initiatives have been taken at our plant to reduce energy consumption. The company has ensured that commitment as per the EPR are met. Water conservation and replenishment of water resources are key imperatives for our plants, and we have made significant progress in this direction.
As far as our strategic pillars are concerned, we have made decent progress in most of the strategic pillars of growth in FY 2023. The increase of distribution in urban, including both retail initiatives and wholesale activation, as well as specific stack group level interventions, have helped ADHO regaining momentum and registering strong growth across all channels in Q4. Expansion of our hair oil portfolio has helped us to drive top line through Coconut and Amla portfolios. Almond Drops' extension in hair and skincare categories are scaling up as per plan. They are being supported by visibility on digital, both on and off platform. Further launches in AD extensions are planned in a graded manner in FY 2024, as has been informed earlier.
Our digital first brands continue to witness steady growth. We will keep supporting them through digital media as we may continue to make forays into the premium personal care space. The international business, which is also another focus area for the company, registered all round strong growth in Middle East and Africa, Bangladesh and rest of world. This path will further be taken up in FY 2024. Moving ahead, summarizing scaling up of our existing portfolio, new product launches along with focus in execution across channels will remain our key drivers for top line growth in FY 2024. In addition, the company will continue to build drive for premiumization of portfolio, rationalize cost structures, drive automation and digital transformation initiatives to gradual growth with healthy margins in the coming quarter.
With this, I end the opening remarks and open the session for questions. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Our first question comes from the line of Percy Panthaki from IIFL. Please go ahead.
Percy.
Hi. Hi, Percy here. Just wanted to understand on the margin front. I mean in the past calls, we have been a little sort of conservative and said that do not expect any significant margin expansion in the near term. But now our margins have gone from around 14%, 14.5% to about 17% +. Just wanted to understand, are we confident of retaining high-teen margins here on? Or is this sort of a blip in the continuum?
See, I think, Percy, we had continuously maintained that for this year we had taken a major investments both in terms of the new product scale up, in terms of marketing as well as gross margins were specifically impacted because of very steep LLP and RMO, which Percy possibly our raw material basket was even worse affected than the overall market other than maybe soap. I think we had given a guidance that anyway we will be targeting 18%-20% in the very near to mid-term kind of a number. This is something that anyway we are committed to because below 18% is something anyway we are never looking at.
Yes, I agree that last year was a little bit of a difficult year in the first three quarters. 18% is a kind of a bare minimum we are looking at, and we wanted to reach that 20% kind of a number by the midterm. That is something that we remain committed to. Yeah.
The ad spend that you have done this quarter, would you say that's a normal kind of number, or is there some phasing issue which has driven it lower? Or you feel that this level of ad spend is, sort of, okay?
If you look at the ad spend, the specific amount that we have spent that's close to that INR 42 crore kind of a number, I mean, that is something that we would like to remain, and it has remained consistently consistent across the years. As a percentage, it falls as the top line goes up. That is a number which is what we were looking at in terms of the SOV coverage we wanted for ADHO. The digital buildup that we have done in terms of now the digital part of our investment itself in ad spend is about 25%, slowly scaling up maybe towards 30% and the ones that we spend on the new products. This is something that we will roughly keep it at that level.
ad spends will not go down as a absolute number, going forward. As sales scale up, we feel that the percentage will go down a bit. Yeah.
Right. Last question. How do I basically interpret or look at your growth while on a YoY as well as sequential basis? The growth is very healthy. If I look at the last normal Q4, which was Q4 FY 2019, versus that more or less we are in the same range on a four-year basis. My question here is that once the base sort of normalizes because this year on a YoY basis also our base was very favorable, right? Q4 FY 2022 was a -10% kind of a number. Once our base stabilizes, how should we look at growth going ahead? Because the overall industry numbers are reviving, but they are still pretty lackluster.
What gives you confidence of maintaining this double-digit kind of top line?
See, two, three things. If you look at, look at between, let's say, quarter two, quarter three, quarter four, the progression that is happening, that is exactly what we've been talking about, that the corrections that we are making are a little more mid to long term in nature, and you would not see short-term results. That's what we have been talking in the last two years. Now some of the investments that we have made, both in terms of back-end, in terms of automation, in terms of corrections, in terms of overall cost structures on one side, and in terms of investments, in terms of our products marketing. Now slowly they are starting to bear fruit.
Whether it be the ad extensions, whether it be the expansion in ROI portfolio, and maybe another range that will be coming out this year, which is something that we are contemplating, which is a little higher in gross margins. I mean, those are things now at least we have a back end which can support that. I would like to think that in the last two, three years, it was more consolidation and constructing the base for getting into this. Now slowly we are seeing results coming out of whatever we have been trying to do in the last two, three years.
Just two data points, if I might ask. Firstly, on the ADHO contribution to the overall sales for the quarter as well as for the year. Secondly, in terms of your direct distribution, what you have reached at the end of FY 2022, and how it has compared versus, let's say one or two years ago.
See, if you look at the overall contribution of ADHO back earlier, which was about 93%, is now down to about 86% in terms of overall saliency. The traditional range that we have, which is basically the other products from our Cool Almond, Glistene, Brahmi Amla, that is about 2% and 12% comes out of your new product and other new product block that we have created, which I'm including the Amla Aloe Vera, which was also a relaunch, so that gets included in this. So that today forms about 12%. The direction that we have set is that this range needs to go about 30% or so going forward.
Overall, ADHO saliency, we keep pushing for growth for ADHO, but we look at the overall saliency of ADHO coming down to about 60% or so in a more long term and in the near term, maybe about 80% or so. There we are on track as far as the business is concerned. As far as distribution is concerned, that number has gone up to about INR 8.5 lakhs, is where we have taken up the number, which directly we were covering about INR 6.5 lakhs through our direct coverage. Our van sales had increased the number to about INR 8.5 lakh, which is where we are.
In terms of quality of distribution, I think in retail, the distribution expansion has been very good, especially urban. While in number terms, it is just about adding about 50,000 more, in terms of the quality of distribution, it has been a very good quality of distribution that you have seen. That is bearing from the fact that in spite of so much of difficult times as far as urban is concerned, you are seeing that retail growth has been consistently steady as far as we are concerned. We have been continuously reporting about 10.5% double-digit growth as far as retail is concerned.
Right, sir. That's all from me. Thanks and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Tejash Shah from Avendus Spark. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity and congrats on good set of numbers in this environment. Just the first question pertains to margin guidance that you said that the near-term goal will be to kind of revert back to 20% kind of margins. Just wanted to know, there's in macro environment, there's a lot of volatility both on growth and on margin spend and raw material spend. This 20% is assuming normalcy coming back or irrespective of that you believe this raw material tailwind is in our favor, we should be able to do that.
We are looking at, as of now your LLP and RMO looks range bound, so I don't think there is major bearish trend on either of these products at this stage. We are looking at raw material prices in a, as a scenario, we are looking at a 17%-20% kind of EBITDA margin, which is what we are targeting. 20% is not near term. 20% is more mid-term. A little more corrections are being done as far as our cost structures are concerned. Beyond gross margins, some more cost structure optimization, we feel that there is an opportunity. We are looking at that. That's where we say that the 20% is what we wanted to reach in the more on a mid-term basis, more like 17, 18 and going forward that kind of numbers for the near term.
Sure. Sir, the structural correction that we wanted to do in the business model, which was, dependency or over-dependency on one product and one brand, do you believe that with this kind of margin range, we can continue in that journey and still, now there won't be further deceleration or contraction in margin, if we want to achieve this goal as well in terms of diversification?
Just to give you some insight on numbers, as we crunch our numbers, we see that because of our entire change in portfolio, the margin dilution has been overall impacted by about 1 percentage point. That's about the impact that has happened. Most of the impact has happened because of the raw material price inflation and our inability in the industry to take pricing freezes. We see that in similar situations, the soap industry were able to take pricing freezes. Somehow in our industry, the companies usually because of the growth, they have not been able to take that kind of pricing freezes. Our inability to pass on the prices where the gross margins got impacted. I think both of them normalizing as the demands, you know, you see are improving.
We should see some bit of price corrections from our side as well going forward in terms of passing on the pricing freezes that has happened in the past to the consumer. This is something that you will see. This is one side of it. The other side, as a company, we have also taken a decision that products that we launch should only be launched at gross margins which are closer to ADHO. I mean, there might be marketing spends that we will be doing on these products, but gross margins of these products, we are going to have a no-no kind of a situation for any product which has got, you know, gross margins less than, below 40%-45% kind of a number.
This is something that we are going to strictly adhere to going forward.
Sure. Sir, margin is very much clear. Just last one on the growth, not guidance, but just a very subjective outlook, if you can share. Where, like after all the correction that you have done in the business model and then looking at macro environment, where do you see our sustainable growth rate kind of stabilizing? Will it be mid-teens or low teens or high single digits? Where do you want this business model to now gravitate towards?
For the next five years anyway, you will have to look at as a company, we'll have to look at a sustainable double-digit kind of a growth rate. I mean, preferably quarter-on-quarter, but at least year-on-year for sure. Certain key corrections that were required, we have been in that journey for. One is our presence in urban itself was poor in terms of retail presence was not very strong. That is something that has been continuously getting dialed up, so we are seeing progress in that. In terms of deep rural, some work had happened. I think further work is required as far as deep rural is concerned. At this moment, we are not spending too much money in rural because we want the rural to recover completely and then maybe, especially target that.
We do have some plans on that. The third is again back to geography. There are certain clear geographical gaps that we have, and now we have some understanding where we can go and what we can do in this geography. Some action points have been triggered as far as some focused geographies are concerned. That we should see coming up in the quarter. I don't want to talk of it because we want to get into that. As far as that part, what we envisaged maybe two, three years back, slowly at least we see some action happening. As far as the product portfolio is concerned, we clearly wanted to be on one side complete as far as the heroics portfolio is concerned.
On the second side, get our credibility slowly starting getting established in the personal care space, both in hair and skin care in the more and the premium range. A journey has just begun. I would not say is anywhere become in a big trust, but at least clearly directions are there and some more product launches in that direction, consolidation, our entire media approach, etc. You'll see that open up as we go forward. That is something that we have been talking of a year. A third range of products which we are seeing that there is clearly an opportunity for Bajaj to get in this space itself, there is an opportunity for us, is something that we are looking at actively and we should see some progress in that in the next one or two quarters also.
This is as far as the domestic market is concerned. International, I mean, it was clearly a low-hanging fruit, obviously a lot of groundwork was required in that. I've been saying that in the previous calls that, I mean, I would not want to talk of international, this is clearly a touch area. This year, we have had a modest 55%, 56% growth. Decent bases are getting created, now at least we have a team that is working, specific country teams have been worked upon. A few countries are clear focus areas, we see international being one of our key drivers also in the next few years.
Very clear, sir. Sir, if I may squeeze in 1 bookkeeping question. How should we budget for tax rate for FY 2024 and 2025?
Tax rate for FY 2024, 2025 should be the same.
Yeah. Okay.
This thing goes off in 2027.
In continuing that.
In continuing that, yeah, that's it.
Okay. Thanks a lot, sir, and all the best to the team for coming quarters.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Shirish Pardeshi from Centrum Broking. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good morning, Jaideep, and team. Thanks for the opportunity. Three questions from my side. If I look back over five, six quarters, HSM market, has been our pain point. Now the growth, what you mentioned, 9% on volume growth in ADHO is very strong. Could you talk something about how the scale-up or the offtake or the demand situation over last two, three months, you are experiencing in the HSM market? Spend a minute or so on the wholesale, because you mentioned in the beginning that you have run some wholesale loyalty programs. What is it that it is for a short term, it's a long term, or are you tying up, with the volume or value?
Okay. Two, three questions, I'll answer them in that order. First thing is in terms of HSM markets, unfortunately, the HSM markets still have not completely recovered. Their recovery is still a little slower. I mean, we are looking at some of the food companies where the HSM markets are doing well. In our case, unfortunately, personal care, they still remain a little subdued. We look at the numbers, especially, we typically look at numbers for UP because that's a good, a decent benchmark for us, and we look at both in terms of soap, shampoo. While shampoos have recovered a bit, soaps etc are still down in terms of volume. Hair oils actually are performing better than soaps in terms of volume terms performance.
Obviously, value terms, soaps are still double digit because of the pricing fees they have taken. This is clearly still a pain point. Again, as I said, from quarter three to quarter four, as I look sequentially, the improvement is clearly there. There were high mid-teen declines that are happening in markets like UP. It has become single digit or just about low double digit to a single digit kind of a decline. This clearly we are seeing slowly coming back and going forward, we are very powered. Where the growth have come from, as I said, we were clear that we need to make ourselves both a little ADHO independent as well as a little HSM independent. I think in that strategy, good work has happened.
One is obviously modern trade and e-commerce has done a fantastic job for us to helping us put us back on line. Clearly, GT needs to perform. In GT, there have been other markets beyond these HSM markets which are now slowly showing traction. At this moment, again, as I said, nothing huge, but clearly in the direction that we would want to go to. Qualitatively, that's a pretty good direction that we have reached. This is as far as the markets are concerned. In as far as questions about the retail and wholesale is concerned, retail, as you are aware, I mean, we have talked about retail has to be one of our focus areas, and that's where we see our new products etc.
For a lot of strategic value, retail would be useful for us. Retail we had anyway not a very strong presence. That lot of work has happened in terms of activation, in terms of working with Customers out there, etc. As far as wholesale is concerned, it is more loyalty programs of more long-term in nature. There are no short-term there. We have completely come out of this short-term approach where there'll be pop-ups given at the month-end, etc. We have completely closed that because that is something that we had talked about a year and a half back, and that's why we have taken some kind of a beating also from the market. If you look at...
If you were to go to the market today, in terms of market dynamics, as far as Almond Drops is concerned, the prices of Almond Drops across the country remains very similar. There is very cross-border inflows, etc. That's something. We had taken that pain in the last two, three quarters. We are clearly seeing that advantage coming. That comfort and confidence of the wholesalers are also back, and we have now tied them for long-term with volume numbers, so that these are the numbers they have to look at. This is more creating as far as the wholesale loyalty goes. Yeah.
One follow-up here, Jaideep. What is the F-2023 wholesale contribution you have settled in urban and rural?
It's again, we have come back to that very standard listing of 25/25, 50 kind of a number on a very, very listing. Retail is now at 25, which used to be 20%, 30%, 50% kind of a mix. Retail is now 25%. Wholesale is now about 25% or similar plus or minus there. Rural is about 50. Actually, rural is a little lower. Last year rural was 52% and urban was 48%. This year it's the other way around. Urban is 52%, rural is 48% overall.
Okay. My second and last question on the NPD. You said aspirationally you are looking for a contribution to move from 12%-13% to 30%. What time frame and what are the initiatives would take you there over the next whatever time frame you are expiring?
Again, this is something that we have not... In fact, if you look at any of the initiatives, all of them remain exactly the same that we had stated two years back. I think none of them we have changed in terms of directionally what we wanted to do. In terms of new products, as I said, first and foremost, we wanted to complete our hair oils portfolio. We are still not there. We have introduced four products, which is two in Amla range and two in the Coconut range, but we are still not there because there is something a little more ground to cover. When and how we'll cover is something that we'll continue to look at. We felt that Almond Drops extension, clearly there is scope for us.
The three products that have launched are showing good signs. They're taking traction in new categories, which were not there. Now this year you will see another set of launches that will happen, which will keep expanding our Almond Drops umbrella, which is again something that we have stated. The third we have said is that we'll be looking at a range of products where Bajaj's relevance can be used, which is basically the trust of Bajaj, the Indian-ness of Bajaj, and the distribution strength of Bajaj, which is basically again GT centric, because finally, if you have to make money, it has to be a little more GT centric product.
That's a range of products will be coming up and products where, as I said, gross margins, the two things, basically things that we look at gross margins and basically the competitiveness. Now, that is there in the space. We have identified a set of categories where we can go in where Bajaj is relevant. We have done our consumer testing accordingly, just like we have done for our Almond Drops extensions. We see that that is a range which will also be coming out this year.
With this overall push, I think, and basically on ground execution, which is finally at the end of it, the final answer, which is slowly now improving in the kinds of quality of people that we have been changing across in the, in the GT overall, our approach to GT, etc. I think we are pretty confident that we are on track to go in that direction. Yeah.
One follow-up here. You said, 30%, which is really heartening, and it is 2.5 x what you are currently holding. Question here is that, are you banking on the distribution scale-up and strength or you are really saying that the consumer approves test is done and more channels we will open and that will drive the growth?
In fact, it will be a combination of both. As I said, distribution scale-up, clearly certain geographies, I mean, every geography we have distribution opportunities, but certain geographies more so. Now that relevant products are slowly coming in and we think some more relevant products specific to geographies we might introduce, we feel that distribution expansion clearly will be one of the big pillars for that. Other than that, obviously the channel, statements that you made will obviously hold true as well. Both in terms of channel relevant products as well as distribution expansion in a little unexplored geographies as well as in existing geographies where we see expansion happening.
Okay. Thank you, Jaideep and team, and all the best to you.
Thanks, Shirish.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Kaustav Bubna from BMSPL. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi. I had a few questions. Can you hear me?
Yeah.
Great. The first question was really on the ADHO market. You know, we're speaking about new product development and that's excellent. On this ADHO market, could you just give me your sense on how you see this market shaping up in terms of volume growth over the next three to five years? You know, where do you see the industry in terms of market size versus today?
See, as I said, I mean, hair oil industry is not neither going to really slump big time, nor is it going to expect a big growth, etc. Yes, this year, this year has seen a blip in terms of the hair oil industry because, in discretionary we have been one of the worst affected. I think going forward, a reasonable expectation of a 3%-5% growth as far as volume is concerned would be expected, is a reasonable expectation to have as far as the hair oil industry is. That's a, let's say an estimate we operate with. I mean, obviously-
No, but my question is more on the Almond side versus the overall hair oil.
I'm coming to that. You wanted.
Okay.
The overall hair oil as well, I'm just taking the hair oil part first.
Okay.
That 3% - 5% is what we expect. Within that, Almond, it's also a question of how we place Almond. Almond being one of the leaders, what is the aspirational value you put to Almond and what kind of product? Rather than just say how much Almond will grow, I would rather say how much will be the premium oil segment will grow, that Ayurvedic LHO, that block. I think that there is enough proof in the marketplace that if there is enough aspirational value that can be put to the brand in terms of what we are offering, in terms of the requirements of the product, those brands also have the capability to grow.
As the market situation improves, as demand conditions improve in terms of economy, you will see those markets, those categories also bounce back pretty strongly. As we have already started seeing, I mean, last three, four quarters, five, six quarters, these ranges were the worst affected. Now they are clearly showing signs of recovery. We expect that if the market were to have that 3%-5% growth, there is no reason to believe that Almond and its ilk will have a growth which is less than that. Thanks.
Okay. That's great. Basically, when we look at over the next two years, when we look at, NPD going up to 30% of the total portfolio, that shouldn't mean that our ADH falls, right?
It may not be two years.
It also will continue growing, too, right?
Yeah.
Sorry?
May not be two years when that 30% is achieved. That 30% expectation of NPD in two years may not happen organically.
Okay. The next question is, RMO and LLP prices have cooled off from highs, so what is our inventory holding period for these raw materials? When will the reduction of prices start showing more meaningfully in our margins?
Typically we hold about 20 days of inventory. Yes, there'll be some flow that will happen in Q1 as well. Yes.
Okay. any guidance for NPD revenue growth in FY 2024?
None. No, I mean, there's no guidance.
Could you just give us an update on the buyback? What's happening? I mean, I'm just misinformed there.
Absolutely fair question. Buyback, we had taken a book size of INR 80.89 crores as far as buyback is concerned. We ended up buying back INR 80.88 crores of stocks, which was equity worth INR 14.26 lakhs, which we have subsequently extinguished. Sorry, INR 49.14 lakhs, which we have subsequently extinguished. And now we have equity base of INR 14.26 crores. From 14.75, it has gone down to INR 14.26 crores. This is what the buyback status is. Just to get a sense of the promoter holding, it has gone up from 38% to now about 39.35%.
Okay, great. Thank you so much for your time.
Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Anuj Jain from Globe Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Congratulations on the wonderful set of numbers. Just couple of questions from my side. First one is, what kind of ad spend we are looking for for this financial year?
As I said, in absolute terms, we'll strive to ensure that the numbers remain similar. You might see a little bit of a percentage drop. If the sales go as per plan, then you might see a little bit percentage here and there as far as the percentage-
Okay. Ranging between 16%-18%, I can take.
Absolute terms, we would like to keep it in a similar range.
Got it. Got it. Got it. my second question is, I mean, like, for this Q1, we have now in the 2nd month, right? How's the rural recovery shaping up, like, for the month of April? I mean, till Q4 you have given all the picture. Just wanted to understand for the month of April, how the rural recovery has been shaping up, as well as the RM and LLP prices, what kind of trend we are looking for, you know, post Q4, I mean, for the month of April and till.
Let me cut it short quickly. No guidance on April. Rural economy The trend that you are following both in terms of rural economy, the commentary that I made, remains very similar as far as this quarter as of now, we see. In terms of guidance, I won't be able to guide you, sir, on how it will look.
No, no, I'm not, I'm not asking for guidance. I mean, what kind of recovery you are looking at by looking at the numbers and the LLP prices and RM prices for the month of April, how they are shaping up?
As far as rural is concerned, as I said, we are seeing that gradual recovery slowly happening, but yet not recovered in the way that you would like to have happen. LLP, at a point of time, it had really gone down. It has now become a little range-bound. It is more or less steady. Again, the commentary that you saw in Q4, which is that RMO prices has come to a pretty decent price in terms of a lower price. That is where it has remained. LLP has also more or less stabilized at the prices that we ended quarter four at. It has remained more or less range-bound. We have not seen any further either increase or decrease from where we started.
Got it. Thank you, sir. That is from my side.
I'll qualify it by saying it remains range bound, so it is no indication of what. Because the market still remains volatile as far as LLP is concerned, so we'll have to keep watching the space to see how it goes.
Got it. Agree. Thanks.
Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Varun Bang from Bernstein. Please go ahead.
Hello. Congrats on good set of numbers. Just, what we see is we have a long range of offerings on both Natyv Soul and Bajaj 100% Pure side. Do you don't see the need to narrow down focus in terms of range of offerings on both these brands?
Good question, Varun. In fact, if you heard the commentary in my opening remarks, I actually touched upon that point. You are absolutely correct. That was our first year of this thing, and our learnings are also being now slowly put back into effect in terms of what we wanted to do. We feel that maybe we went a little too overboard in terms of number of hero ingredients we wanted to establish in the mind of consumers as far as Natyv Soul is concerned. That now we are now spending our entire testing to take on Argan as a product to support Natyv Soul with the entire range of offerings in shampoos, conditioners, hair oil, everywhere.
That is where we will focus, Argan being our hero ingredient, so that people can relate Natyv Soul with Argan oil and Argan being the supporting. That is what we are trying to rationalize Natyv Soul as. While you will have the other products, but this will be the main focus in terms of marketing, digital etc. As far as pure oils are concerned, there are only five that we have on the offering, and that is something that we don't need to scale down because that is something that we are seeing good traction. One or two of them have not been doing as well as the others, and that we keep rationalizing based on. Nothing to rationalize the product. It's basically the marketing investments will be proportionate to the scale that we have.
The products like Castor, Olive, etc, are giving better responses, so we'll be investing more on those rather than the other products.
Okay. From here on, how are you prioritizing investments between variety of brands that we have? If you can just share your thoughts around that. I mean, percentage mix between ADHO and non-ADHO and within non-ADHO, Natyv Soul and Bajaj 100% Pure, if you can just share?
Basically, what we are trying to do is, as we said, two things that we are continuously going to scale up. In terms of ADHO, the non-ADHO part of the investment in terms of, I mean, marketing spend, we are slowly and gradually creeping up. The digital part of the versus the conventional media, that is slowly we are scaling up in both. That is a mix change that is happening. As you see now, ADHO is about... If you look at the quarter, ADHO now contributes to about 2/3 of the investment, or rather more like 60% of the investment is now on ADHO as far as digital is concerned, where about 40% of our investment happens in the NPDs.
Of a full year, if you look at it, nearly, getting closer ADHO and NPDs. If you look at the overall, this thing obviously is still heavily on to, on just the TVC, if you look at it's heavily still ADHO based. That's how it is.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Abhijeet Kundu from Antique Stock Broking. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks a lot. Good morning. My question is on oil portfolio.
Abhijeet, you're not clearly audible, so can you speak a little closer to the mic?
Sure. Now am I audible or?
It's better.
Yes. Yeah. You know, on the ADHO portfolio, I mean, product, you have shown about 9% volume growth in the quarter. When we look at the overall hair oil growth, it's still, you know, bloated and whereas, say, 9% volume growth is very strong in that case. You must have gained market share. I believe a major part of that market, I mean, that outperforming is because you have improved your presence in the urban markets. You know, if I have to do my numbers, I mean, and try to extrapolate this for the next year of 8%, 9% volume growth, what gives you, I mean, what should give you that confidence of this repeating this 8%, 9% growth?
Because, yeah, on a full year gather, it is flat, all of that is fine. At the same time, after going down, coming back, reviving to this level also is pretty commendable. You know, to continue from to grow Q5 of 2019 and at this rate, what is the level of confidence you have? How would be that driven? Rural, we still don't have that clarity, how much time it will take to improve. Urban at least we have seen that growth and urban also has outperformed. There are reasons for it, and those reasons should continue, I believe.
Yeah, fair enough. If I understood you correctly, that what is the confidence of, I mean, your voice was breaking, so I'm just trying to summarize what I understood.
Yes.
Basically, you're asking of what is the confidence of this kind of a growth, coming back and having come back from down, I mean, that's good enough. That is the range and what is the confidence that this track will continue. That's a fair question.
Right.
Let me try and answer that again. If you look at the last two, three years, exactly the same thing that we have been doing over and over. If you were to ask me what specifically did we do in Q4 versus the previous quarter, I would say nothing. I mean, nothing was done in Q4, which was different from Q2 or Q3, etc. I think as we said that as you have to build up our organization as we are making a shift happen, it will slowly happen and then it will start getting momentum. I understand that initial years were difficult years for all of you to take on, but that is something that anyway will happen as you make a transformation, and we are still in that journey.
Some of the, let's say levers that we are pushing or some of the initiatives that we are taking are now slowly starting to bear fruit. Let's say this entire talk of retail that we have been talking of the double-digit growth, etc. Now it's catching momentum and as you see results of it coming in. All the corrections that we are making in GT in terms of dynamics, price dynamics, etc., those are now bearing fruit. In terms of expansion into geographies that we were not strongly present, slowly work has started happening. I would still not say that the journey is anywhere close to completion. It's just about started, but at least we are seeing momentum in that.
In terms of the new products that we wanted to launch, we will get in where the investments initially was much higher than the results that we are getting in. The marketing expenses are equal to the sales or even more. Those are now slowly trying to input. I would rather say that most of the steps that we have taken were in the direction where we wanted some long-term results or rather mid to long-term results. Now slowly we are starting seeing results of it. I would think the team and the biggest thing is the team itself is now a far stronger team that you would have. It is not only in sales and marketing.
In my view, it's the entire back end also needs to be equally strong, whether be it IT, whether be it your manufacturing, supply chain, etc. I think lot of this credit also would go to that team. Obviously, the marketing and sales team will be in the forefront, but they have now become far stronger than this organization had ever seen. I would think more or less the basics are in place now to see this company go in a particular direction.
Okay. Basically, Q4 is not a flash in the pan. There is, I mean, a steady at least 700% volume growth should be possible.
I cannot give a.
You can give a guidance, yeah.
Volume growth, I'm saying that the initiatives that we have triggered off are slowly now starting to bear fruit is how I would like to put it.
Okay. That's it from my side. Thanks.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we request you to restrict to one question and one follow-up question. Our next question comes from the line of Gaurav Gandhi from Glorit ail Capital Management. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. Congratulations on the good set of numbers. As most of my questions are already answered, I just have 1 question. Sir, what are your thoughts about competitive intensity in the market and our efforts in the modern retail category to highlight our products? Because if we see
Right.
What we are ensured and even in modern trade products, sir. Sir, last year, Almond Drop soap jo humne launch kiya hai uska response kaisa hai abhi market mein? Sales response kaisa aa raha hai usko?
We have already told that this is one of the largest category, the most cluttered category. To establish products in it, no immediate magic is going to happen. Our progress is slowly increasing the distribution, slowly the repeat orders are coming. In this, we are very, very confident that we have actually come into the right range of products. As I said, Almond Drops soap is not a soap in isolation. It was not a soap launch. It was more of Almond Drops skin care category thing. This year you will see more of the range of products that will come in Almond Drops in skincare as well.
You will see that Almond Drops portfolio will be slowly created, and in the next two, three years, then you will have a full basket portfolio, a comprehensive portfolio of Almond Drops, in which our advertisement will also help because Almond Drops superfood for hair, Almond Drops superfood for the body, or wherever we will take that direction, I don't want to get into it. That's what our team will go into. That's the direction.
Clarified, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Nikhil from Simple. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, good afternoon. I hope I'm audible.
Yes, you are.
I have two question. One is a clarification. You mentioned at the beginning of the call that the Almond category as a part of the total business will come to 60% or 70%. That will involve all the line extensions and all the combinations of Almond which we are launching, or they are outside of the.
Almond Drops. Sorry, just Almond Drops. Almond Drops Hair Oil, ADHO.
Okay. Second, sir, on e-commerce, if and, if I add two, three data points, one is like, if we look at our new products, which is now close to INR 100 crore, and the e-commerce business grew 100% from INR 35 crore to probably approx INR 70 crore. Now, if I have to understand the traction, there are two things which you have mentioned in the slide. One is the digital-only brands and also the listing of the existing brands on the digital medium. Is it like on the e-commerce, the higher growth which we have seen is from the digital-only brands, or is it more traction from the digital listing of the existing brands which have grown, which has given us this growth?
It is both. It is both. Both are happening at the same time. The digital-only brands. It's not only the digital-only brands. There are also brands which are, let's say some of the extensions only launched in the digital today, but it can go further into GT tomorrow. Like serum, etc, we have started with only the e-commerce. That range is obviously there as well as in terms of ADHO itself, which is also into that. It's a combination of both the regular GT brands as well as the digital brands which has led to the e-commerce group. It is not fueled by one of them.
Okay. Last question. If you look at, you mentioned that, whatever brands we are launching, their gross margin profile should be equivalent to what Almond does.
A little less. Maybe a little lower, maybe in certain cases.
Approximately similar. Now if you look at on INR 100 crores of new products sales, and you said almost 17% is our ad spend, ads and promotion. If I bifurcate our P&L into Almond and the new products. Would it be right to say the investments in of A&P behind the new products would be significantly higher, as a result, they would be not contributing anything on the profitability as of now?
That would not be correct. First and foremost, yes, we can obviously split the P&L in ADHO and non-ADHO. We split it a little more in terms of blocks of product category. Let's say hair oils. We would look at hair oils, non-ADHO hair oils, then digital for Tungi, then ad extensions. We'll rather split the P&Ls in that. I mean, obviously we do it at product level, but at least at the gross level, that's the minimum we look at. We don't do just ADHO, non-ADHO. This is one. Two is your spendings is not disproportionately higher in the non-ADHO packs. Lot of this money has still got into ADHO, which I said. The digital money that we have spent, a lot of it has gone into the non-ADHO brands.
Most of the TVC money, which is basically conventional media, has mostly gone into ADHO. Yes, there have been soap launches, so we had put money on the soap TVC, Coke money. Those products have got TVC ads, but most of it has still got into Almond Drops. Almond Drops TVC still remain. Almond Drops, your overall media support still remains very strong. Yeah.
Okay. Sure. I'll come back in this one.
Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Keshav Garg from Counter Cyclical PMS. Please go ahead.
Sir, firstly, I want to thank you for the share buyback. Sir, I hope that this is not a one-off and you continue to do share buyback. Sir, I wanted to understand that, the new product that we had launched. I was just comparing that our 200 ml Castor Oil, we are selling for INR 250, whereas Dabur is selling the same 200 ml Castor Oil for INR 299. They are selling at a 20% premium to us. Whereas we, our Almond Oil, the main brand, is the premium segment brand. Is it a conscious strategy to penetrate the mass market or, sir, I just wanted to understand the positioning of our non-Almond Oil portfolio.
That, sir, is it mass market or is it premium or how exactly are we positioning it?
Coming to the specific example. Clearly, let's not compare almond in this category. These are categories where we have decided that we will compare with what the market is selling and not any specific competitor. If you look at the range of pure oils that we are selling, obviously the names that you are mentioning are the existing companies are not existing hair oils company are not the leaders in this category or this market segment or in this customer mindset. In the customer mindset, the companies that are leaders, like right of w ay and other companies which are there.
We try and benchmark and position ourselves both from our EBITDA standpoint as to what we want to look at, or rather gross margin point of what we want to look at and what the market leaders are doing. If you look at this particular product, the market leader is selling at INR 190. We also taken a pricing freeze, but that's the benchmark we look at. What are the market leaders looking at? One of looking at a competitor who's not a re-large relevant player in this category is not really the right way to look at this category.
Sure, sir. Sir, lastly, wanted to understand, our peak EBITDA in FY2016 was INR 274 crore, which last year, FY2023 has approximately halved and it is the lowest in the past decade.
Correct.
We understand that company is in brand building and investment mode. But still there is some time value of money. In the past 6-7 years, we have spent approximately INR 1,000 crore accumulatively on advertisement and sale promotion. It is not really reflecting in our top line growth. Do you expect that going forward now that the base building has already been done, the foundation has been made, the growth will accelerate going forward?
Yeah, I have answered that question in multiple of the previous questions. As I said, we have put in the levers for growth in place. Some of those are working well, have started working well, some of them have started. We'll see how it is. That's what we can do as far as the company is concerned. Have a directional, strategic direction, remain with that, and then hope that the market, etc, will also be more or less comfortable for you to be able to grow that. The question that you're asking, a lot of other macroeconomic factors would also impact them, which will also impact other companies. Taking our company in isolation and looking at it might be a little difficult to answer this question. Yes, at different points of time, different companies have been at different, do you think?
We can only talk of how the future is, and I'll just try to lay out for you as to what we are looking at the future, what growth drivers we are pushing and where we think our growth will come from.
Sure, sir. Thank you very much. Best of luck.
Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Shirish Pardeshi from Centrum Broking. Please go ahead.
Hi, thanks for the opportunity. Just two follow-up question. On the price front, have we taken or do we anticipate there is some pricing action, correction is required in the market to boost the demand at this time?
We have not taken any price corrections in the past year. And if we take price corrections, it will be only in the northward direction, not southward.
Okay. Okay. Second question on the new product portfolio which you have deployed. There are two follow-ups. One here, which product you think which looks promising crossing INR 50 crore mark in next two, three years? On the Natyv Soul, I think in our discussion, you sometime mentioned that the product is worked well and now we are looking the expansion into the modern trade. Is that journey is on or is completed or now you are banking on that the growth will be very strong?
Sir, Natyv Soul question I understood. What was the first part of your question, Shirish? I missed that.
No. On the digital part, we have said that, there is a new product contribution which is there. Question there was which product you think promising crossing INR 50 crore mark in next two to three years?
As far as the digital brands are concerned, sir?
Yeah, all the new products I'm saying. Totally new products.
New products, I think, I think quite a few products, we see have a potential or will cross or have crossed INR 50 crore or so. I think in terms of that, we see quite, some of them having that potential. We look at INR 100 crores as the number where we would think that it has been a successful launch if it remains at INR 100 crores for two years in terms of sale. We think one or two products can easily reach that level, let's say. That's where.
Would it be Coconut?
It will be a combination. See, we have laid out for you all the products that we have. You can more or less get a sense of which are the products we have. Once these products reach a certain size, we'll also be reporting as to what kind of numbers these products are there. They are all in a nascent stage, so I don't want to pick out a specific product and talk about a specific product. There is Coconut, there is Amla, which are all in a good space that is there, and some of these new products which are slowly picking up. Really speaking, I would not call out any of the specific products.
As far as the Natyv Soul part of your question is concerned, yes, I mean, we are clearly having now looked at all the e-commerce channel partners where we can get this product doing well because e- especially this kind of product, even in the channel partners, that is the e-retailers, some of them very clearly are the right guys to go to, go to, and we have been able to go there. That traction has happened. Now slowly we'll look at even modern trade getting these products really off the shelf. This is something that we are planning to do going forward, yeah.
Okay, thank you.
Thanks, Shirish. Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Anup Ramachandra from A&P Investments. Please go ahead.
Hi. You guys are doing exceedingly well with respect to e-commerce also. I have one clause with respect to your inventory management or supply chain with respect to e-commerce. The thing is when most of the products become a bestseller, it goes unavailable as in stock becomes like currently unavailable. Even today, Almond is a bestseller on one of the most prominent website that's on e-commerce, but it's unavailable today. I don't know why this thing is happening frequently.
You're talking of Amazon today? Is it?
Yeah.
in Amazon? Yeah.
Yeah.
If today in Amazon, you'll not find that. I mean, if you look at. I completely agree and we are looking into it, but this is a extremely rare kind of opportunity because, I mean, the retailers will also be coming strong hard on us, we are actually looking into it. This I can assure you is more of an aberration. I can absolutely assure you it's an aberration. It is not something that you would see. I mean, I would like you to, if you can get somebody of yours to monitor both ADHO and other products on the e-retailer side. I think we have improved our fulfillment very strongly in the last two, three years, two, three quarters, and that's how you see these growth. This is more of an aberration. I can assure you.
In this quarter itself, we have seen like at least five to 6x it's gone out currently unavailable.
I don't think that would be so because we, our e-commerce team, our digital and e-commerce team, we have revamped very strongly. We continuously keep monitoring ourself. I would like to.
Not particularly Almond Drops. I'm seeing sometimes Castor.
I'm talking of Almond Drops only. I'm talking of Almond Drops. We also monitor it. Today you are absolutely right. I mean, just unfortunately it is today, but it has not been five, 6x s in the quarter. I would at least because we keep taking report, I mean, our head of e-commerce, he himself takes a complete inventory of it, this would not be is what I would like to think. Having said that, if you have said this, we'll go back and check and see whether that's actually how it has happened and-
Take a look from the whole portfolio as such.
Absolutely. Absolutely. I take your point.
Coco Onion was unavailable for a long time. Castor Oil was for a while.
Castor Oil might have been because there were some supplies issues. Coco Onion, we would like to think again was not available. Coco Onion, let me think. Almond is something that, yes, today it has gone out of stock and that is not a very normal thing. Otherwise, you would not see this kind of growth. I mean, the retailer will also not suppose us so wholeheartedly if they do it.
Okay. The point was.
I take your point. I take your point completely, so we'll look into it, yeah.
Second question rather is with respect to this buyback. I know the whole object was to give good returns to shareholders, but the point is, did any major shareholder exit during this buyback?
No, it was more, retail investors that, this thing. None of the institutional, shareholders or big, individual shareholders exited this one. No.
The reason why I'm asking is we spent almost INR 80 crores on this buyback, right?
Yes. INR 100 with the tax. Yes.
Yeah, 100 with the tax. We spent almost INR 100 crores with this buyback, where we did an open market buyback. Which I don't know which shareholder got benefited from it, but we spent INR 100 crores doing an open market buyback.
Yes.
I don't know what was the whole object of it if you do an open market buyback. At least we could have done a tender offer if you had to really give any substantial return to the shareholders.
Anyway, going forward.
I don't know.
I think going forward that would be the only, anyway the only option that is left. I think that open market buyback is anyway slowly going out, so. Yeah, I take your point. I don't think there'll be any other option for any company to go for open market in the future. Yeah. Anyway, for us, the buyback window closes for the next 12 months from the last day of the last buyback. This discussion will only open up in April of 2024 if we were to consider.
Yeah, I'm saying no. I'm saying we spent INR 100 crores. We could have put that money for better use, either as dividend offer or A&P spend or whatever. Doing this INR 100 crores, I don't know.
A&P spend is already at max. See, I hold a treasury of more than INR 700 crores, as you are aware. Anyway, it's not something that there is a debt in the market or we are leveraged or there is a specific immediate large CapEx requirement or a inorganic growth that we need this cash to be burnt on. Really speaking, this was one attempt to look at how this thing, because we have to see that we are also doing a buyback for the first time. This is also a learning cycle for us.
Right.
Yes, the investors who are existing investors, we feel that they should see because if you were to look at in terms of the, say, extinguished, INR 49 lakh shares have got extinguished. The existing investors as a percentage of their holding has obviously gone up. If the market cap were to remain at those same levels, they would have benefited by those few percentage points, which I understand. It is also a sign of sign of how we wanted to see how the promoter, because there were questions on how the promoter is on this company. It is also a promoter remaining away from the buyback. That was also another way to just repose some confidence of the promoter in the company and showcase that to the market. Yeah.
That was the combination.
No, I'm saying the confidence with respect to promoter, we would have felt more assured we have bought it from the market instead of hiking stake through buyback.
I mean, both options were open. I mean, these are questions that can be answered by various reasons. I mean, both have their advantages as well as disadvantages. We have gone one route. I mean, we could have obviously gone the other route. We can go to the third route as the tender route. This is one route that we adopted, and yes, I take your feedback on that.
No, I think you guys coming back from Asian Paints, which stands for corporate governance-
Let's not bring in another company because that company has nothing to do with this.
No, no, I'm not bringing that. I'm saying that it's.
Remain in the company.
investors will look at it.
I mean, that's a completely different company there.
No, I'm not bringing it up. I'm just saying the corporate governance, it may not look great.
I take your point.
Yeah. That's all from my side.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we have reached to the end of the question and answer session, and I now hand the conference over to the management for closing remarks.
Thank you, everybody, for this interesting round of question answer. I think as a company, as I said, we remain cautiously optimistic. Most of the steps that we have been taking are now slowly starting to bear fruit, as you would have seen, and we would like to think that most of them are more, a little more mid-term to long-term corrections that we have done, which should hold us in good stead going forward. Most of the key drivers that we have said, one of the things that I feel good about is that we have not really pressed the panic button in the last four, five quarters and tried to do any short-term corrections so that our long-term direction and the goal and vision is disturbed.
I think the team is committed as well as the stakeholders, seem to be clear the direction that we are taking is something that we would like to stick on to. We hope that in the coming year and the quarters to come, we should be able to deliver the kind of top-line expectation as well as the bottom-line expectations, both to you as, stakeholders and interested parties as well as this company is concerned, as well as the internal management and the stakeholders within, are concerned. I think we should be able to take that. Thank you so much for joining in this conference, and wish you a very, very good day and year ahead. Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of ICICI Securities Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.
Thank you.