Ladies, and gentlemen, good day and welcome to IndiGrid Infrastructure Trust Q2 FY 2023 Earnings Conference Call hosted by Axis Capital. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Jiteen Rushe from Axis Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, everyone. Good evening, everyone. On behalf of Axis Capital, I would like to welcome everyone for the Q2 FY 2023 Earnings Conference Call of IndiGrid Infrastructure Trust. From the management we have with us today is Mr. Harsh Shah, CEO and Whole-time Director. Ms. Divya Bedi Verma, CFO. Ms. Meghana Pandit, Chief Investment Officer, and Mr. Satish Talmale, Chief Operating Officer. We thank the management for giving us this opportunity. We shall begin with the opening remarks from the management, followed by Q&A session. I would like to now hand over the call to the management for opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you. Am I audible?
Yes, sir. You are audible. Kindly proceed.
Great. Thank you. So thanks, Rushe, and thanks, everyone for joining the call. I will take through the presentation in the initial part, and then allow my colleagues Meghna, Satish, and Divya talk about some of the specific aspects of the business in the presentation. We'll take question and answer at the end of the presentation. Started on the slide number three for the presentation where we are depicting our vision, which is to become the most admired grid vehicle in Asia. We believe we are able to do the four pillars of strategy which is focused on the business model, long-term contracts and low operating risks. Focus on value accretive growth. Keep providing predictable distribution and manage the risk by managing optimal capital structure. We believe we'll be able to become the most admired grid vehicle in Asia.
Specifically to this quarter, on slide number five. We have closed the Jhajjar KT Transco Private Limited for about INR 250 crore on 9 November 2022. This deal was signed in quarter two, but we were able to close it in November 2022. This is a very unique asset which connects the central and western grid to the southern grid. A very crucial asset. It is acquired from three private sector developers. It was a complicated transaction which took some time, but we are pretty happy about the value at which we acquired and the synergies with our portfolio that it's gonna add. On the financial performance side, revenue and EBITDA was 6% year-on-year growth basis. Collections, we got back better versus last quarter. We are at about 96% this quarter.
In terms of DPU that we increased early on this year, continuing the track record, we are distributing INR 3.3 a unit, which is about 3.5% year-on-year growth versus last year. Our net debt to AUM at 87% still provides sufficient headroom for us to grow and acquire assets. Our AUM has increased marginally because of the acquisition that we spoke about and other factors that contribute to that. Our operating performance continuing robust at 99.3%, which will be covered in detail by Satish in the subsequent slide. Remained fault-free to achieve 1 million safe man-hours, milestone achieved. We are at it and hopefully we can take this to 10.
In terms of our implementation of DigiGrid, which is digital asset management portfolio, which we have rolled out to entire portfolio now. We are expected to yield synergies of this in the coming quarters and years. In general, all these initiatives are contributing to what we really stand for, a superior total return, sustainable increasing DPU and similar operations. On the next slide six, quarter two FY 2023 industry update. In general, the power sector seems to be in a pretty exciting place. Power demand is increasing. In general, lot of initiatives taken by the government, including increasing the share of green as well as reliability of grid, it is yielding into substantial amount of impact on the sectors that we operate in.
In general, this transmission spend is substantially planned to be higher in next five years and estimated to be about INR 1.4 lakh crore. The overall additions, both in terms of circuit kilometers and MVA in FY 2023 are sustained in line, but we expect these are gonna increase as we go ahead because all the energy highways that we need to build for achieving the transition, energy transition, would eventually result into substantial CapEx investment in the transmission space as well. In addition, which is unique, which has come out over last quarter is, Ministry of Power has come out with guiding principles for monetization of transmission assets in the public sector through AOMT, which is acquire, operate, maintain and transfer based on PPA model.
Basically, what this means is that MoP has provided guidance on how state utilities can prioritize certain assets without giving the asset completely to a private sector and eventually having a buyback or a transfer back to the government, which we believe, is going to open up, more greenfield monetizations of utility assets in the country. That's about what's happening in the industry and how we are approaching it. On the quarter two FY 2023 operational performance, I'll invite Satish, Chief Operating Officer, to take you through the performance of the quarter. Satish?
Yeah. Thanks, Harsh. Hi, everyone, and happy to present operational performance for Q2. Starting with safety, yeah, we achieved 1 million safe man-hours. We would like to maintain the same status quo or make it better with a zero incident quarter.
We had no major incident in quarter two. Regarding availability, portfolio-wide, we achieved 99.3%. I will take your attention on the right-hand side where the bar chart of availability is shown. You can see majority of the assets are more than 98% normative availability target. RTCL, which is, there was a highway diversion job which was undertaken. The impact of that you are seeing in the availability numbers, but this is commercially already recovered from NHAI. Practically there is no impact on RTCL as far as revenues are concerned. The next asset, JKPCL, where you were seeing 97.44%, that is due to an outage caused by the transformer. This was the rarest of the rarest fault which was encountered in the transformer.
We were able to attend that with a site visit, and that got restored in the month of October. And on the NER, as we discussed in the last quarter, there was a forced outage due to the unprecedented floods. Happy to share that both the circuits of NER are restored with the emergency restoration system. The permanent restoration activities are ongoing and expected to be completed in the month of February. Coming back to the left-hand side, on reliability, I think we are achieving one of the best benchmark data point on trips per line and always trying to make it better as we move quarter-over-quarter. On digital asset management, all the assets are now monitored by a digital platform.
All day-to-day field operations activity, including EHS quality, the entire process of operations are being, you know, monitored through a mobile application as well as from the back-end enterprise asset management platform. On the emergency preparedness, while we did our NER restoration, happy to share that now we have our own team. We coined them as a quick reaction team, and they are trained now how to build an emergency restoration system in the shortest possible time. In this quarter, we also measured our GHG emissions across the portfolio as a part of our ESG initiative. If you look at the numbers, we are one of the lowest contributors to these emissions, and we will put our efforts to improve on that as well. On the key indicators, which is there on the right-hand side, tables.
Number of trips per line, we are at 0.15. This is increase compared to last year quarter because of the increased frequencies of thunderstorms and the lightning events across the country. We are working at long-term mitigative actions on these challenges as well. The focus on training continues in the quarter on the EHS training largely. Again, LTI is zero. We are maintaining the track record of zero. There is an improved reporting culture on unsafe conditions, near-miss, which is more of a proactive management of all the EHS observed across the portfolio. Rooftop solar generation also has increased compared to last quarter. Overall, on utility solar, 100 MW, there is a slight increase in generation as well, and also our CUF percentage overall.
We are maintaining consistent track record as far as availability and reliability of the assets are concerned. Thank you, and we'll forward it to Divya.
Yeah. Thank you, Satish. Good evening, everyone. I am happy to present the quarter two financial performance for the trust. We have clocked in a revenue of INR 580 crores for the quarter with an EBITDA of INR 535 crores. Comparing to the same quarter last year, it shows pace of growth of 6% in revenue and EBITDA. NDCF generated for the quarter stands at INR 280 crores, which showcase a growth of 25% on a year-on-year basis, excluding one-off item, because in previous year quarter we have repaid the taxes, so the growth is almost same. No major changes. DPU for the quarter stands at INR 3.30. As compared to the previous quarter, previous year we were paying INR 3.19, which showcase a steady growth of 4%.
Collections for the quarter are at 96% as compared to last year, quarter was 105%. We see a good catch-up in this year because the quarter one was at 77% of the collections. DSO days at September 2022 stands at 66 days as compared to 52 days last year at September 2021. Month-on-month, you see the collection efficiency, July was at 99%, August at 110%, and September at 100%. Overall quarter was 96%. This financial performance also gave us a belief and showcase our stable revenue EBITDA and DCF on a year-on-year basis. Now we'll move to slide number 9, which details about our DPU for the quarter.
DPU for the quarter is approved by the board at INR 3.30, which will be paid in form of interest, INR 3.11, and a capital repayment of INR 2.19. Our unlisted units available quarter stood at INR 70 crore, which will be made a gross distribution of INR 231 crore. The record date for quarter two distribution would be 16th November, and the payment date for the distribution would be on November 25th. The NAV for the quarter as on quarter end stood at INR 135.30. With this distribution, we would have overall distributed about INR 65.11 per unit, with a total amounting to INR 3,415 crore to the investors, including the quarter two distribution.
The right-hand side quarterly distribution trend showcase our year-on-year growth, which is scaling up on an average rate of 3%-4%. We are on track to meet our this DPU guidance of INR 13.20 for the year. Moving to the next slide, which showcase NDCF waterfalls from EBITDA to NDCF generation. EBITDA at SPV level recorded at INR 531 crore. We have adjustments of finance cost, working capital movement, CapEx, tax at SPV. Generation at SPV and then expenses at IndiGrid and the finance cost, and then there's taxes at IndiGrid. The generation for the quarter stood at INR 280 crore. As per our guidance, we continue to distribute INR 231 crore. This quarter will be replenishment of reserve of around INR 49 crore.
Last quarter, we had taken a reserve, and this quarter we are replenishing the reserve. At current levels, we have healthy reserves to use for any unforeseen collection deficiencies or any other factor. That's for the quarter. For the subsequent slides, I'll request Meghana to take it over.
Thanks, Meghana. Hi, good evening, everyone. I'm on slide number 11. Spending a couple of minutes on the balance sheet position. IndiGrid remains triply rated by all the three rating agencies. The average cost of debt at the portfolio level for a borrowing of around INR 13,000 crores is about 7.51%. At the end of 30th September, we closed with a cash balance of about INR 1,151 crores, which includes around INR 230-odd crores for distributions of Q2, almost INR 380 crores for BETA, and additional amount that we utilized for acquiring Raichur Sholapur, which closed in the month of November.
Out of the total INR 13,000 crores of gross borrowing, almost 77% is fixed rate borrowing, which allows us to insulate against the interest rate environment currently, which is on the higher side. We are at a very healthy net debt- to- EBITDA percentage of 57%, leaving significant headroom for acquisitions with a cap of 70% as per regulation. Along with that, the interest coverage ratio ends at a healthy number of 2.19x. The incremental debt that we raised in Q2 of FY 2023 also stood at around 7.5- odd% . Looking at the pie chart and slide, the gross borrowing proportion between bank loan and NCD is almost about 60/40%. Even amongst the NCD, it's a wide holding between mutual funds, corporates, retail HNI, insurance companies, banks.
Similarly, loans from public sector banks as well as private sector banks. Looking at the graph for, towards the bottom, the repayment refinancing schedule. As you can see, there is no bunching of maturities, which we have been working towards over the past several quarters. We've ensured that even any particular year, the refinancing percentage is not more than 10%-12% of the gross borrowings. FY 2023, as on the 30th of September, had a repayment of about INR 2.73, which as we speak, further is refinanced. We have a very well diversified and termed out borrowing profile as depicted. Moving on to slide number 12. We continue to deliver superior risk-adjusted total return to the investor.
Total return is depicted with the distribution, which is almost 62% that IndiGrid has delivered since the time it got listed till 30th of September. The price change of almost 43%, which translates into an annualized return of 14% compared with pure play debt securities on the left-hand side are depicted by G-Sec bond, 10-year as well as 30 years. Similarly, on the right-hand side, comparing with pure play equity indices, Nifty 500, BSE Infra, BSE Utilities, as you can see, IndiGrid continues to deliver risk-adjusted returns. Risk being depicted by the beta. As you can see, IndiGrid's beta is 0.08, which is almost close to zero compared to the other pure play equity indices as well as other equity securities. Moving on to slide 13. This is about the Raichur Sholapur acquisition that we recently completed.
Raichur Sholapur Transmission Company Limited is inter-state transmission asset which was built out in 2014. It has been operational since 2014. It's a tariff-based competitively bid project which connects Raichur in Karnataka and Solapur in Maharashtra. It's a 765 KV single circuit line with a total line length of about 250 km. This project was also awarded on a BOOM basis, Build Own Operate and Maintain, and is also part of the Pooled Payment mechanism deal. The TSA tenor of 35 years balance remaining life is about 27 years. We acquired this project from a consortium of three private developers, Patel Engineering, Simplex Infrastructure, and BS Limited. For the project or the enterprise valuation was close to about INR 250 crores.
We are expecting that this acquisition will add INR 10 crores-INR 11 crores of net distributable cash flow per year. Being the ISTS DBFOT project, it fits perfectly into the integrated strategy of acquiring a transmission asset which has had a history of almost seven to eight years. Similarly, the payment mechanism remains in PoC with minimum counterparty risk. With our existing portfolio in the state of Maharashtra and on the western side, per se, there are significant operational synergies which this project also brings to the table. Moving on to the business outlook that we are looking at, three to four aspects that we are looking at.
One is focused on maintaining stable operations with the perspective of predictable and sustainable distributions and improve acquisitions and maintaining and delivering increased DPU guidance of 13.0 for this year. On the acquisitions or the growth pipeline, we are seeing significant activity in the transmission space itself with almost INR 1,400 billion of transmission projects which are getting added to the grid, which essentially means that private developers as and when the projects become, and they will monetize these projects, IndiGrid will be keen to look at acquiring them. In addition to that, under the National Monetization Pipeline also there seems to be a healthy growth pipeline of almost INR 450 billion.
In addition to power transmission, we are also exploring acquisition opportunities on the solar side as well as in different scalability scale battery storage. Parallel to the growth strategy, we also look at improving the balance sheet strength by looking at optimizing the interest cost and allocating the tenor for the incremental acquisitions to look at. Similarly, maintaining adequate liquidity to mitigate any uncertainties that may come about. On the asset management side, our focus continues to be on maintaining more than 99.5% availability. Similarly, maximize revenues across each of the projects. With DigiGrid getting implemented across the portfolio, idea is to improve and expand its functionality in order to improve visibility, as well as focus on ensuring world-class EHS practices. On the policy initiatives we continue to remain active.
We are working with all the regulators to try and streamline any of the tax anomalies which are there between equity as well as InvIT. Similarly, certain other initiatives like index inclusion specifically for REITs and InvITs, which will allow improving the depth in the market, is something that we are also working on. All of it focusing on us delivering superior returns, sustaining increase in the DPU and stable operations. Thank you. With this, we will stop here and now get to the Q&A session, please.
Thank you. Ladies, and gentlemen, we will now begin the question- and- answer session. Participants who wish to ask a question may kindly press star one on your touchtone telephone. If you wish to withdraw yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use hands-free while asking the question. Ladies, and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Participants kindly press star one to ask a question. The first question is from the line of Rahul Marathe from ICICI Prudential. Kindly proceed.
Yeah. Congratulations on a good set of numbers. I was looking at the slide consolidated EBITDA to IndiGrid waterfall slide 10. In that we can see that finance cost has some impact of ECB loan refinancing. Can you spell out the impact as in the quantum there?
Okay. Got that. Basically yes, we have repaid our ECB and this time since our ECB was completely hedged, this interest cost is net of the ECB's hedged income, which we have earned because of scaling up the forward contract. That was around INR 9 crore-INR 10 crore.
Do we currently have any outstanding ECB or all the ECB is repaid?
Everything is repaid.
Okay, cool. Yeah. That was the question from my side.
Hello.
Yeah. Is it operator?
Yes. The next question is from the line of Ravish Chandra. Kindly proceed?
Sure. Most welcome back. The question is, looks like the acquisition plan is not in the very near future, in 2023, 2024. It is only by 2028 or something I saw. Is it like that? Or before 2028 we are having plan to go for acquisition INR 1,400 billion.
One of them is a framework asset which we are looking at, which is about INR 1,500 crore called JKTPL. That is one of the largest acquisition that we are looking at right now. Besides that, also there are certain acquisitions we are looking at, but they are not at a stage where we can disclose about it. JKTPL is already disclosed in part of the framework assets. That's something which is live that we are looking at.
Government monetization plan, MoP, it looks like it is more of a lease rather than a direct acquisition. Cost of acquisition might get reduced, isn't it?
Not really sure of that because it is going to be largely in, you know, the way the roads are getting monetized in India, right? Like a TOT. That you acquire a road, you acquire right of a particular period, and then you pay back. In any case, the moment there is a contract which is 25-35 years live, the difference between a BOOM and TOT is relatively lesser in terms of the overall cost. I won't read much into that.
Best wishes. Happy with the results.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pratik Kothari from Unique Portfolio Managers . Kindly proceed.
Hi. Good afternoon and thank you. We had this practice of sharing this indicative DPU over a lifetime. Any intent to restart those practice again, maybe on some frequency?
I'm sorry, can you repeat the question? We had a practice of sharing DPU.
Yes. Indicative DPU across assets. What are
Oh, yeah.
Based on revenue, would we use to share this?
Yeah. Correct. No, I think it's a good suggestion. We used to share it very early on. It was not a guidance, but it was an indication of how it may look from current assets plus growth assets. Is that what you're referring to?
Yes. Yes.
Yeah. No, I think it's a good suggestion. We will try to see if we can publish it.
Fair enough. For now, to predict difference in this 13.2% that we do on an annual basis, this is sustainable for how long, giving no new asset something?
This typically, when we do the prediction or increase, we work in a way that at least it's sustainable for five to seven years. Similarly, I think even this is done with the same assumption in mind.
Okay. Fair enough. Just to confirm, there is no factoring that we did this quarter, right?
No.
Okay, great. Thank you. Welcome back and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Participants, if you wish to ask a question, kindly press star one. The next question is from the line of Pritesh, an Individual Investor. Kindly proceed.
Hello. Am I audible?
Yes, we can hear you, sir.
Yeah. Two, three questions. First question is regarding, we saw a sudden movement in management. For example, first went away and then, you know, Jyoti was appointed the CEO. Then again within couple of months, there is a change in management. Just wanted to know, you know, if there is any material reason with respect to that. Second question is with respect to AUM. You know, can we, you know, on a ballpark basis, can we expect the current run rate of addition of AUM to continue over the next couple of years or so? For example, the INR 5,000 crore Kallam project, when, what would be a rough timeline for that, for acquisition? Yeah, these are the two questions. Cool. The last one I'll take first.
The JKTPL project, I think it's very difficult to give a timeline on when we acquire it, but it looks like that we will be able to do it by the end of the quarter because we also have an agreement till then with counterparty to acquire by December 2023. Hopefully it should happen by then. The other project which we have, Kallam, which is about INR 250 crore, that is then going to be finished by quarter three of next year. For next one year, I would say that we clearly have visibility of about INR 1,700 crore-INR 1,800 crore of AUM getting added, which is around 0.7%-0.8% growth. I think beyond that, as we have said before, we are not into a year-on-year AUM growth segment.
We would look for assets which are reasonably priced and meets the criteria. Looking at what is happening in the interest rate scenario and elsewhere, we are hoping that we would find such assets going forward. We will look to acquire as and when we get something which is reasonably priced. On the management change, I would say a lot of things are public already. I can say there is nothing which is, you know, a big, material development in this side. That would be a clarification. Otherwise, almost everything is public around that. Thank you.
Thanks. Can I ask a follow-on question?
Sure.
Yeah. With respect to maintaining the growth rate, are you looking to, you know, raise additional capital? I know we are at 58% right now, but would that be on the cards? Also, I think in one of the slides I saw that with respect to the industry leadership, we are working for inclusion of InvIT also in InvIT sector. But if you see in InvIT right now also margin on the exchange is not allowed on InvIT. It is allowed for lot of other entities which have got listed after you. This question has been asked in earlier con call also. A little push, you know, not a push, but by writing to the exchange with respect to that can bring the instrument on par with other listed instruments.
Sure. Thanks, Pritesh. I think on the second point I'll take first. On the margin, and as we said before also, it's not appropriate. We've been talking to exchanges and SEBI with that. As a company, there is very limited that we can do on it. I think it is investor's prerogative. Investors should write to SEBI because at the end of the day, SEBI is to protect investor interest, right? Investors write to SEBI that we do want this done. I'm sure they'll do something about it, right?
Beyond the point, as you rightly put it's very awkward for the company to go and push SEBI that, you know, allow this to be treated as security for pledge. I think what informal interactions is that investors should approach regulator. That's the feedback that we got. That's why the company is approaching? Let investors approach, right? That would be my two bits on that. Write to SEBI. They're very receptive on opinion from investors, especially on these kind of things. Would be great if you guys write. It would help the cause. On the earlier question you mentioned on reusing. Yes, I think 57% is substantially lower, and we'll get to use it as and when we see assets.
I mean, 57% means that we can acquire INR 6,000 crore-7,000 crore of assets without raising equity. But we have taken to 68%-69%, which is very close to our limit. It's a good headroom available for us to grow whenever there are large M&A assets available. We will look to acquire when the price is right, the asset is right, and we'll keep that flexibility with us. Okay. Also, JKTPL, you know, because of the transformer event, the availability of 90%. So any material revenue effect it would have? To give you perspective of JKTPL size in the overall size of the revenue of IndiGrid is about 2%. We are talking about 2% of 2%, right? It's definitely not material.
I don't think it needs to be concerned at enterprise level.
Okay. Yeah. That answers my question. Thank you.
Thank you. Participants, if you wish to ask a question, kindly press star one. The next question is from the line of Shravan Sreenivasula. from Avendus Capital. Kindly proceed.
Hi. Thank you for taking my question. I just have one question. In case of JKTPL, there was an impact due to outage and there was an availability issue over there. I just wanted to understand how all this impact in the quarter financials, like your revenue. Is there any penalty which you guys have to pay to, for that, reducing availability?
I just answered that question in the last participant. JKTPL puts together an annual base about 2% of the top line for IndiGrid, so it's fairly small. The amount of revenue loss is in 0.01% or 0.02%, I'd say. It's fairly small. It doesn't impact overall profitability or, you know, just revenue in IndiGrid. It's a very small asset. We are just disclosing it in true spirit that, you know, even the smaller assets deserve the disclosure on that. That's why it's disclosed, otherwise it's fairly small.
Do we take any precautions so to avoid any major issue on some other assets also? Like some precautions?
Oh, yeah. Sure, we are. We take a lot of precautions as Satish described in his presentation. At the end of the day, we are operating 54 lines and substations, right? At any point in time, there can be a flood or an earthquake or something somewhere. Because of our scale, we ensure that, you know, while we take precautions, none of the assets are really large enough to make a big dent. If there are certain assets or lines which are large enough, we ensure that there are double precautions taken over there.
Okay. Thank you for your time.
Thank you.
Thank you. Participants with questions can press star one. The next question is from the line of Rahul Marathe from ICICI Prudential. Kindly proceed.
Yeah. Thanks for taking my question once more. There are certain news articles where we can see that KKR is tying up with Sterlite Power to create a renewable energy platform. We also are exposed. A small portion of our portfolio is exposed to the renewable power segment. Do we see any kind of conflict of interest that we have a sponsor which is creating a separate platform outside of this?
Sure. To answer one question, KKR as a sponsor has limited role at the IndiGrid. They are more as a manager. Second, KKR always had flexibility to do other platforms within renewable energy space because as IndiGrid, we are addressing a very, I would say, limited set of opportunities in the power space, right? One is transmission. Second is within renewable, also only select counterparties, right? Good counterparties. We are addressing, I would say, less than 5%-10% of overall renewable energy market where we are looking to acquire.
Whereas again, what I understand the JV which is done with Sterlite is to address C&I opportunities, which is more private contracts and bilateral contracts, which are in no way in targets or even, you know, size of IndiGrid to be acquired. I think it's fairly, I would say, independent of what we do. I don't see a potential conflict out of there because of that.
Okay. Yeah. Thanks.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Anirudh Singhi from Dalal & Broacha. Kindly proceed.
Hi. Am I audible?
Yes. Yes, you are.
Yeah. Hi. Could you just help me reconcile the INR 11 crore surplus on the new asset? As per my understanding, the revenue is INR 38 crores and 7%-8% operation expense is about INR 3 crores of operation expense. Even if we assume we take INR 250 crores of debt at 7.5%, that's about INR 19 crores. INR 19 + INR 3, INR 21 crores. Our surplus should be about INR 16 crores, right? Or am I missing something?
I think one part which is.
Hi.
Yeah, go on, Meghana, please.
I'll take this one. This asset also has a decline curve. This is the NDCF number that we give it is an average over a period of time, and that's how it comes to INR 36 crore, I think, that comes to around INR 10 crore-INR 16 crore. On an average, that's the NDCF number.
Okay. In the first few years it will be higher, right, than the INR 11 crore number that we mentioned.
Yeah. Yeah.
If I can add on that, I think what you are calculating is on an entire INR 250 crore as a consideration, whereas the INR 250 crore included certain cash because the transaction was agreed or signed some time ago, and therefore it includes certain cash on which there is no interest to be paid.
Yeah.
Actually this liability will be lesser than what you have computed.
Right. In the first year, maybe our surplus will be closer to INR 20-odd crore, right?
Yeah.
We can't give exact numbers, right? I think we can guide you directionally of how to do the math, but can't-
Fair enough. Yeah. Secondly, in the assumption that we will not acquire any more assets, how much debt are we retiring every year?
At a consolidated level, we are not retiring any debt because we are at a 57%.
Okay.
We would start retiring debt when we reach 65%-68%, then only it makes sense. At this point in time, it's, yeah, 57%, there's no point going to 56%, right? So.
Yeah. Sure. That's it from me. Thank you.
Thank you. Participants, if you wish to ask a question, kindly press star one. The next question is from the line of Chandram ouli, an Individual Investor. Kindly proceed.
Hello, sir. Pardon me for a very basic question. I'm a new investor. What will happen to the asset after the TSA? I mean, you said that there is an average of 29 years in the presentation. In some assets or the TSA might be for existing before. What will happen to the asset?
Sure. I will try to address in a very concise manner, but in some of the earlier transcripts, we have elaborated in that. Many of the assets, especially the interstate transmission system assets, are on a BOOM basis, so we will remain continuing owner of those assets. There can be potentially three scenarios. One is that there is a replacement value type of tariff that is awarded to it. Second is there is a cost plus regulated tariff that is allocated to them. Third is that we don't need the transmission line, then we just sell the metal and, you know, pay the distribution to the investors. In either of the cases, there is a substantial chunk.
As we disclosed in our presentation, the overall size of metal, right, there is about 330,000 tons of steel and about 121,000 metric tons of aluminum. If you were to calculate even their value on today's value there. It will be a substantial size of a market cap. Therefore, on a full life basis, with a little bit of inflation, there will be a significant payment if the line's life is not extended, right? I mean, it's 30 years ahead, difficult for any of us to project it. The principles are same, that the assets belong to us, and either we'll be compensated for respectable tariff on that, or we will end up selling the metal of the asset and make good one-time value of that. It could be somewhere in there.
Our most educated guess is that the electricity will continue to be required to be transmitted at extra high voltage, and therefore there will be a reasonable amount of compensation that will be made to the asset even beyond 30 years.
Absolutely fine, sir. Fine for me.
Thank you.
Thank you. For questions, can you press star one? The next question is from the line of Tanvi Sourtie, an Individual Investor. Kindly proceed.
Yeah. Hi, am I audible?
Yes, you are.
Okay. I just had a question around the waterfall for the NDCF and the gross borrowing slide. It says for FY 2023 we have around INR 270-odd crores of prepayment. In the NDCF, we have two finance costs that are being shown. One at the SPV level and one at the trust level. That is around INR 239-odd crores at the trust level and around INR 14-odd crores at the SPV level. Just wanted to understand how to read this because it looks like we would be almost repaying everything for this year, right?
Should we look at the trust finance cost, or is it the finance cost, or is it the sum of both from the SPV and the trust?
Right. Let me address that just in a simple way as we can. You see interest expense at the SPV level because till last quarter we had one loan at the SPV level, one of the SPV which we have repaid this quarter. Therefore next quarter onwards, the finance cost at SPV level will be permanently zero. Therefore the confusion will go away, right? Before this we used to borrow at both levels, and that's the reason that you see it in both levels. The second question you asked on the refinancing, I think it has no impact. We just refinanced it. INR 900 crores is about less than 10% of our overall borrowing. That we are gonna refinance as and when it's due. I hope that addresses that question.
Yes. Thanks a lot. That addresses it. I think from the next quarter onwards, the finance cost at the IGT level will be the most that matter, right?
Yes. Even right now also that's what matters, but the 14.1 might confuse you because that's SPV. So that's already refinanced this quarter, so next quarter there'll be zero over there.
Okay. Thank you so much.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pradyumna Dalmia from Triton Investment. Kindly proceed.
Hi, am I audible?
Yes, you are audible.
Okay. Hi. Hi, Harsh. Welcome back. You know, my question was about regarding the management shuffle that we've seen in the last quarter. Just was wondering if you could throw some light on, you know, why it happened, and then just provide some reassurance to investors that, you know, going forward there will be more stability in the management.
Yeah. Thanks. I think, as I said, a lot of it is public already, but to repeat, I will tell you the, my reasons for the, change of personnel on either side. At Azure Power, I think the reasons are already made public for my resignation and that's something which is there. As I was considering the alternatives over there was a vacancy at IndiGrid that was created, and I think that was a natural, I would say choice for me, considering that I've been there the longest and it's been the longest stint for my life as well. That was it.
I think going forward, there is also, I think the way investors can read it is that the way IndiGrid is created over last six years, and I've played a pivotal role in that, it is not people specific, right? At the end of the day, it is kind of made as an institution. We have a very deep management team in place. Therefore, at the end of the day, there are always people-related changes that business goes through. The way the institution is created, and I'm talking about independent of me or anybody else for that matter, is that the business and the stability will continue beyond people. Therefore I would rather comfort investors on that they shouldn't worry about beyond the point in terms of one or two changes in the management.
I think the business is robust. Systems and processes are robust. We have created the platform for 30, 40 years or longer, and that should continue to deliver what we had planned for. I hope that addresses your question.
Thanks a lot for the clarification, Harsh, but I can only say from my investor's point of view that we hope, you know, to have you for as long as possible at IndiGrid.
Thank you.
You have created this platform and, you know, we've really been very, very pleased and happy with the way things have panned out.
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. That's all from my side.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pratik Kothari from Unique Portfolio Managers . Kindly proceed.
Hi. If you can throw some light on so over last maybe a year or two, we did see a dry up in terms of deals that we made, et cetera. In terms of inquiries, our pipeline has been moving in the right direction. We did talk about in the presentation that there's a lot of assets coming up, but in the future.
Sure.
How we think currently, any change that you see in terms of what we can wait for?
Sure. Again, see, I'll start with first point of view. You know, we are focused on delivering stable returns and neither am I getting evaluated, nor probably investors should evaluate based on how many thousand crores of assets is getting acquired every year. We will acquire if something makes sense. Many a times, as you would see in even normal markets in investments, there is euphoria on the assets and we may not want to acquire because they are not available at the right price or there is too much competition and several factors take place. I would suggest that, please do not evaluate us based on, you know, how many thousand crores we acquire each year or each quarter.
Maybe in a three to five year is a better horizon to look at because that provides sufficient time frame for investment manager or management to acquire the right set of assets for the right reason. That's opening remark on that. Coming to the sector, I think IndiGrid will do well when considering we are the way we are structured, the way our balance sheet is, the way we acquired assets till now. We will do well relatively in between times of volatility, where there is cash crunch, higher interest costs, lesser asset value volatility, because that is a time for us to look for stable assets at a reasonable price. Right? That's something which would be an environment we would love.
At least looking at it again, as we don't predict macros, but looking at the economics that macroeconomic scenario that's going on, maybe increased costs, lesser liquidity might result in, you know, more volatility in the market, which might throw up better opportunities for us to acquire. Right? I would say I don't know whether that's going to happen in three months or two years, but at least the feelings are seeming to be favorable over there. That's one. Second, in terms of what is in our control and our strategy is that what we are doing is to figure out sectors and assets which we can add value to. Therefore we did renewables some time ago.
We are looking at battery storage projects, which we think are the future and they are part of an extension of transmission projects of electricity projects. We do see those bids coming out actively. Again, we can't guarantee a win because it depends on the return and risk that operate in that sector. We do see that opening up well and we are looking to bid for that, right? If we win that will be a chunkier asset that gets added in the portfolio. Besides that, as you might have seen, we are also doing little bit of development and we acquired one project last year in under construction stage. That's going on well, and we'll be finishing that next year.
While at a platform level it's a very small project, just about INR 250 crores. But it is a very strategic move for us because we want to build those capabilities, confidence and ease to ensure that we can, however small, do development as well, because we'll remain within the framework of steady and you know, 90% operating assets. But this 10% throws a good opportunity for us to bid for assets, execute them well, and you know, have a bit of accretion. We are pretty happy about the MoP announcement and the policy of monetization. At least they're being clear about what should be done. Again, timelines can be one year to five years when public monetization takes place. As and when done, it can be significant.
The way to look at it is you're looking at plain vanilla acquisition of transmission assets that we did in the past. We are looking at little bit of diversification on renewable and battery storage. Third, we are looking at bidding for some of the transmission assets, which is a significant pipeline. The fourth is public asset monetization. Between all of these four, again, we don't know which one will fire when, but we believe as long as we have, you know, enough value drop in all these four, one or two will result into a reasonable amount of growth for us.
Fair enough, point well taken. In terms of the macro environment you mentioned where we might do well, your liquidity crunch, higher interest rates, uncertainty, et cetera. That has not come yet. In terms of deal flow that you are seeing, it's as what it was, say, maybe 12, 18 months back.
Yeah. Correct. I mean, that's evident in the markets, right? Hopefully it comes. Yeah.
Fair enough. No, great. Thank you and all the best.
Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Pritesh, an Individual Investor. Kindly proceed.
Yeah. So just again, coming back to JKTPL, I know that the contribution to revenue is very insignificant. Just to understand if the line efficiency is not maintained, then do we lose the revenue for the entire quarter? I mean, so that would be correct for the other assets, right? Also, right. I just wanted to understand how much JKTPL revenue are we losing in case we don't maintain the availability.
No, it's all proportionate. It is proportionate to what you lose. You don't lose revenue for the whole quarter. It is proportionate. Again, theoretically speaking, if in a quarter your revenue is INR 7 crore or INR 10 crore, instead of 99.75%, you have 97%, you'll lose 97% by 100% , so about 3% or 4% of that quarter's revenue. It is on a proportionate basis. It is not full quarter revenue that you lose.
Okay. Okay. What I understood was that if below a particular threshold level the availability is not there, then we are losing significant amount of revenue for that quarter because it is a performance guarantee kind of a thing. That understanding is not correct.
No, it is a proportionate one. You have a target availability, divide the annual availability. That's the proportionate one that you lose. It's not as if only it's zero the next day.
Okay. Okay, cool. Thanks.
Thank you. Ladies, and gentlemen, that was the last question. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.
Thanks a lot for everybody to join the call. I believe today was high participation, which is cool. Thank you for taking the time. We, as stated, are committed to predictable distribution and growing that, and we are focused on that strategy. We'll keep executing that and look forward to your continuous support on that. Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of Axis Capital, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your line.