Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Subhadip Mitra from Nomura Wealth Management. Thank you, and over to you.
Thanks, Mike. Good evening, friends. On behalf of Nomura Institutional Equities, welcome you all to the fourth quarter FY 2024 earnings call for India Grid Trust. We have with us today the top management of the company, represented by Mr. Harsh Shah, CEO and full-time director; Mr. Navin Sharma, Chief Financial Officer; Ms. Meghana Pandit, Chief Investment Officer; and Mr. Satish Talmale, Chief Operating Officer. I would now like to hand over the call to Mr. Harsh Shah for his opening comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you, Subhadip, and thank you everyone for joining the call today. I would like to schedule the call in a way that we'll start with our results, and I'll take you through the summary of the results in the quarter this year, indicating to our presentation, and subsequently, my colleagues, Meghana and Naveen, will take you through the rest of the presentation, and we will address the question and answer after that. Considering these are last quarter results for the last quarter of the year, some of the comments we can also speak about the full financial year and how it has gone by. So I'll start with slide number three of the presentation, where we are describing the vision.
Our vision remains to become the most admired yield vehicle in Asia, based on focused business model, value creative growth, predictable distribution, and optimal capital structure. I think, as evident in slide 4, in our portfolio, we have been able to deliver that over the last several years. Our portfolio have grown, across different dimensions. Number of substation, number of transmission lines has grown substantially. Our solar generation last year has grown massively, and it turned out to be a 1.1 GW peak, which is almost like an 80% growth on the capacity. And we also obtained several BESS projects as well as transmission projects for the year. In general, if I start with, slide number 6, which is our quarterly update for our, for our business, this quarter.
We have won another greenfield ISP project in Maharashtra. Besides that, we have won GUVNL battery energy storage projects for 180 MW by 360 MWh configuration. With this, in FY 2024, we have won five greenfield projects, largely in transmission space, worth about INR 2,000 crore in output. This is a significant step towards our strategy, where we are pursuing towards growth via our bidding and adding, I would say, organic growth by focusing on projects that are closer to our assets as well as are closer to our skill sets in creating organic pipeline for India. In this quarter, we also commissioned the first greenfield projects which we had embarked on about two and a half years ago, and Kallam Transmission Limited.
A new project that we have also won this quarter is also co-located at the same Kallam Transmission Limited, showcasing that having a synergistic presence in different regions allows us to be competitive and add more expansion in projects in the same region. Besides transmission and organic growth, we also acquired 300 MW of solar project from ReNew, the asset is in Jaisalmer, and this asset was acquired at approximately value of about INR 1,550 crores. We, in the first BESS project, which was for customer BRPL, which is BSES Rajdhani in Delhi. We have received the approval from DERC, and this is a significant step because this allows us the project to, allows us to start the project. Many a times after the bids, especially battery and solar projects, get stuck on the final regulatory approval.
But we are pretty happy with the speed with which we are seeing the customers are moved to get the approval, so that we can start and break ground. On the financial performance, our quarter four revenue and EBITDA both witnessed 31% and 24% year-on-year growth respectively. Quarter four financials now include full quarter impact for the grid assets and also revenue from the new asset on a portion of the quarter. For the full year, revenue and EBITDA stood at approximately INR 2,864 crores and INR 2,460 crores respectively, which is a growth of 23% and 17%. Quarter four collections have been phenomenal in the transmission side, with 119% and 89% for the solar assets.
For the full year collection, we received 103% and 101% respectively for transmission and solar, which is also the reason why we are adding substantial amount of NDCF for the financial year. With the phenomenal year, both on financial and growth side, the board has decided to meet its increased guidance at INR 3.55 a unit, which we had raised up acquiring unit, and further guidance has been increased further by 6.4% to INR 15 a unit annually for FY 2024-25. I would remind that we had raised the guidance mid-year last year. If one was to compare our original guidance for FY 2024, this 6.4% will almost look like 9% increase from 12 months ago guidance that we had guided 12 months ago.
Our net debt to AUM still remains at approximately 62.4%, owing to the capital that we raised over the last couple of quarters, both preference issue and institutional placement. And we continue to work to ensure that our net debt to AUM remains at a level which allows us to grow. Operating performance, our average quarterly availability was 99.52, and the annual availability has been 99.74, which is ensuring the maximum incentive for this financial year. Our solar CUF, including R-CUF, was around 23.9%. We also implemented something called asset health indexing for our entire substation portfolio to enable more predictive and proactive maintenance. You may recall that we had implemented DigiGrid about a year ago, and this is a further step in the same direction.
On slide seven, while there are a lot of factual updates about the industry as it's growing, I would just describe our emotions. We are extremely positive on the way the power sector is growing, and we do feel that industry is getting a lot of tailwinds from the demand side, from regulatory circles, as well as the supply chain side, which is resulting into the government as well as the need of the customer becoming more and more apparent. And therefore, we are seeing that in transmission lines and substation itself, there is a sizable amount of pipeline are available for bidding over the next couple of years. And we do see that a sizable amount of this would be able to addressable target for IndiGrid, which will result into a sizable growth pipeline.
This also is driven by a large amount of demand on the renewable side, and while we do not bid for renewable projects directly, such amount of capital requirement does require many of the developers to flip assets, and that becomes pipeline for us. And besides that, for this kind of renewable expansion, we are seeing a lot of planning already being undertaken for further expansion into transmission and battery storage, which remains our core area, where we look to be. On the quarter four of operating performance, I would like to invite Satish Talmalle to take you through the performance. Satish?
Thank you, Raj, and hi, everyone. On quarter four operation performance, so we achieved quarter with zero harm on HSE aspect. That means no major incident reported for the quarter. On performance, overall average quarterly availability is 99.52%, which is largely due to all the scheduled outages, which we plan typically in Q4. But on annualized basis, we almost hit our target of 99.75%, with 100% maximizing incentives. On solar generation, we achieved 23.9% CUF, with a generation of 445.8 million units. On reliability, we achieved 0.13 trips per line, which is among the best in the world sector. In quarter four, we achieved zero trips for entire substation.
We are continuing our efforts to maintain consistent performance based on our reliability-centered approach and coupled by digital technology with best-in-class operational excellence. With that, I would hand over to Navin on slide 9.
Thank you, Satish, and good evening, everyone. We are on slide 9, another good quarter with robust performance. We have recorded a revenue and EBITDA of INR 786 crores and INR 655 crores respectively, which translates into 31% and 24% YoY growth. NDCF generated for the quarter was INR 461 crores, and board has approved distribution of INR 3.55 per unit. That translates into DPU growth of 3% on YoY basis. With this, FY 2024 DPU stands at INR 14.1 per unit, a growth of around 6% compared with FY 2023. Coming on to collections for the quarter, it stood at 119% and 89% respectively for transmission and solar business.
For FY 2024, collection performance at entity level stood at 103%, with both business segments having collection performance greater than 100%. The DSO as of 31st March 2024 stood at 46 and 71 days, respectively, from transmission and solar business. This reflects improvement in DSO in both the business segment by 8-10 days on year-over-year basis. Moving on to next slide, 10. DPU for the quarter is INR 3.55 per unit. It will be distributed in the form of interest and dividend, which is INR 2.74 and 0.81 respectively. The outstanding units at the end of the quarter is 78.37 crore, and the distribution to all the unit holders comes to INR 278 crore.
Record date for the distribution is May 30, and tentative date by which the unit holder will receive the distribution is June 8. NAV as of March 31 stood at INR 133.15 per unit. Post this quarter's distribution, IndiGrid would have distributed INR 85.97 per unit, with a total distribution of around INR 4,945 crore. On the right-hand side, we showcase a trend of distribution on year-on-year basis, with this stable and scalable growth of 6% over the years. Further, continuing past trend of distribution for FY 2025, quarterly DPU guidance has been increased to INR 3.75 from INR 3.55 per unit, which is a growth of around 6%. Coming on to next slide, number 11.
This shows the waterfall from our EBITDA to the NDCF generation and distribution. At an SPV level, we have a consolidated EBITDA of INR 670 crores, net of finance income, working capital movement, and CapEx at SPV level. NDCF generated at SPV comes to around INR 813 crores. The net of the trust level expenses, finance costs and tax, we have generated NDCF of INR 451 crores. In Q4 and FY 2024, we have added INR 128 crores and INR 143 crores respectively to our reserves, and closing reserves stands at INR 465 crore, which is in excess of one quarter's DPU, basic current guidance. So that's all from my side. I'll hand over to Meghana to take the subsequent slides. Over to you, Meghana.
Thanks, Navin. Hi, everyone. I'm on slide number 12. Looking at the balance sheet for IndiGrid as on thirty-first of March. We continue to be triple-A rated by all the three rating agencies, and we closed the fiscal year with an average cost of debt of about 7.68%, and a very healthy cash balance of about INR 15.94 billion, of which one quarter's distribution, Q4 distribution is already included, plus about INR 440 crore of debt also includes the cash balance part of that. More than 75% of our borrowing book of INR 191.92 billion is in the form of fixed rate borrowing, to that extent, insulating the borrowing book against short-term variations in the interest cost.
Our net debt to AUM, the leverage ratio remains at a healthy 62.4 odd% on the back of the equity raise that we did, around INR 1,070 crores in the last fiscal. EBITDA to interest, interest coverage ratio remains very healthy at around 1.86. The gross borrowing book is almost 50/50 divided between NCDs and bank loans. Even as far as NCDs are concerned, they are subscribed by, a lot of different classes of investors including mutual funds, banks, financial institutions, FDI investors like IFC, PSU banks, so on and so forth.
The graph that you see at the bottom of the chart reflects the refinancing schedule, and as you can see, it is smoothly divided over the next few years, ensuring that we do not bunch up any debt maturities in any particular year, trying to maintain that level at not more than 14, 15% of the gross borrowing book. Moving on to slide number 13, talks about the total returns that we have been providing to all the investors. The total returns comprise of distribution till date, which is about 79%, and the price change, price appreciation of 33%, translating into absolute total return of 111%, and that annualized translates into 12 odd %.
We compare ourselves on the left-hand side with pure play debt instruments like G-Sec Bond, 10-year and 30-year, and on the right-hand side with pure play equity indices, right, like NSE 500, NSE Nifty, BSE Utilities. More importantly, with the run-up in the equities, you can see that the annualized return on equities has certainly gone up, but on a risk-adjusted basis, which is reflected through beta, IndiGrid, IndiGrid beta being 0.08. On a risk-adjusted basis, IndiGrid still consistently has been outperforming both the debt and the equity indices. Moving ahead on slide number 14, on the business outlook, for FY 25. On the portfolio strategy basis, we continue to focus on ensuring operations remain stable, by ensuring predictable and sustainable distribution on the back of value accretive acquisitions, both on the transmission and renewable assets.
On the back of the five greenfield projects that we have recently won, complete focus remains on execution of this work on both the transmission as well as the BESS projects. Synergistically, also looking at participating few more opportunities that will come our way in the current fiscal, as well as deliver on the DPU guidance of INR 15 for FY 2025. Balance sheet strength and focus on ensuring that that continues remains again on, as one of the top priorities by ensuring that we optimize the interest cost and try to see that we elongate the tenures, as and when there are refinancing opportunities or acquisition opportunities that come through. Similarly, we try and maintain the leverage ratio, as much as possible by ensuring that there is enough headroom that is available for future growth.
On the asset management side, both on the digital asset management, the health index that we have introduced reflects on our priority and on ensuring maintaining at least 99.5% availability across the portfolio, as well as ensure world-class EHS and ESG practices throughout. Industry stewardship again continues to be, a focal point for us as InvITs, wherein we try to participate in ensuring investor education happening regularly, and at the same time, ensuring private sector participation gets priority in the electricity sector, both in greenfield projects as well as national monetization pipeline. Moving on to slide number 15, this reflects on how our DPU trajectory has moved on the back of accretive acquisitions that we have done since the time we got listed.
The various color bands that you see talk about the acquisitions that we have done over the years, and on the back of these acquisitions, how we have been able to grow and maintain the increased DPU for the sustainable period over the future. So that is what is reflected by this slide. I'll just take a pause here and open the room for question and answer, please. Subhadip, over to you.
Yeah, perfect, Mike, can we please open the floor for question and answer? Thanks.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Participants who wish to ask a question may press star and one on your touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. We have the first question on the line of Pratik Kothari from Unique PMS. Please go ahead.
Yes. Hi, everyone. Good afternoon. Thank you, and congratulations for the consistent performance for the past 5, 7 years. My first question is on this, the new entry which we have made for the last 6 months, BESS, the battery energy storage. Harsh, if you can speak more about that and explain what kind of business that is, I mean, what kind of CapEx does it incur, and not just from our side, also from the customer side. I mean, given Discom is putting up this, battery energy storage, and what does it cost for them to store this power? Recently, there were talks about central government having to come up with some Viability Gap Funding because it didn't seem economical. How much is it for the project that we have won?
Just broadly, if you can help us explain or understand this business or economics of this.
Was the management able to hear the question?
Yes. Yes. So thanks, Pratik. I think for us, battery energy storage projects are almost exactly similar to transmission projects. Even the bidding framework is pretty much similar in terms of TBCB framework, except that instead of transmission service agreement, it is called battery energy storage service agreement. So it's identical from the concession agreements that we have followed in the past. The payments, or rather the business model, the operating model, is also based on availability. So as long as the batteries that we manage provide a certain availability as well as output efficiency, we continue to get paid whether the customer uses the charging and discharging cycles we have provided or not, irrespectively, we get paid. So practically, it is almost like a, like a substation project that we have managed. So that's, that's point one.
Point two, in terms of the customer CapEx, customers, in this case, or rather in most cases, will not be incurring any CapEx. It would be in their substations, and therefore, rather, they are outsourcing CapEx. So we are doing CapEx on their behalf, and they will pay us an annuity for 10, 12 years as a bid by me. So the business model is that instead of incurring expenditure on their books, they are calling bids, and they pay an annuity bid for that. Just to provide you a little bit of context of economics, the tariffs I put to you one, a few projects would be in the range of around INR 7.5 a unit.
The primary driver for this tariff being reduced substantially over the last one year is I mean that the cost of batteries has come down drastically over the last one year. And I think at INR 4.5, we are looking at an inflection point, because for certain peak demand, if one was to use solar plus battery in the evening, the cost would come around INR 6-7, which is pretty much, I would say, at a great parity to serve peak load in the evenings or morning. So I do think there is a real business case where we will see a lot of growth in the battery energy segment from different customers, as long as the prices remain down. So we are hoping that a lot of growth in this area will take place.
The business model, to your question, remains as our normal Build, Own, Operate, and Transfer kind of business model.
Correct. If you can share what was... I mean, what is the CapEx that we'll have to put up for this, 180 megawatts, the one we are doing in Gujarat? And when we say 180 megawatt, 360 megawatt, that means we have to keep this battery available for two hours, that is the contract which we have to serve.
It's a little more complex than that, but yes, we need to do 2 hours of availability, but there are also cycles. So this project has 2 cycles.... Some project can be 1 cycle, so it is not easily comparable. Each project is not easily comparable over here, because based on the cycles and location and customer requirement, there can be what you call sizable amount of difference between specific projects. I would say, so this project that we have won has got 2 cycles, and 180 MW means the peak capacity. 360 MW means 2 hours of battery storage.
The cost for the CapEx, I would say we are in place to order, in process of placing the order, but it is in the range of, you know, somewhere around INR 550-600 crores.
Sorry, and this INR 4.5, which is mentioned will be the cost for the discom, this does not include any gap funding that central government has to do, right? This is-
No, this project is... Yeah. This project is not under any gap, any viability gap funding, and we, this project economics is not dependent on any VGF initiative from the government.
Right. Fair enough. And also the risk part, I mean, the battery technology, I mean, keeps evolving every other year. So what happens in case things change a few years down the line? That is one. Second, given this is very new technology, what happens if this doesn't perform as expected? Because transmission line has been in existence for many decades, this is quite new.
Mm.
Third, what happens after this 10-12 years?
Yeah. I think point one, the technology is evolving massively, and it is evolving for better, so efficiencies are improving. So as the new technology is coming, we will see probably reduction of cost, and we are hopeful that it happens, and it will help us in further augmentation, if we have to do. To your second question, I think we need to do a little bit of more work around it, as a country, as a way to raise awareness. So most likely, today, the largest amount of battery capacity in the world exists in China, and it is not in 1, 2, 10 gigawatts. It's over hundreds of gigawatts of manufacturing capacity of lithium-ion batteries exist. This technology itself is not new. Technology exists for decades in satellites, in our phones.
It is the same technology at a different scale, different application. So the lithium-ion technology, I won't call it new. It is extremely stable, extremely viable and used technology across the world. So I think it is, and we have a lot of exposure, and we've looked back at a lot of technology as well as manufacturing plant, operating plants in China. The capacity is tremendous, the use case is tremendous, and they are treating it as a base technology, not as an emerging technology. I would say sodium-ion is emerging technology, but lithium-ion is a base technology, which has been existing for decades. So we are not worried about the risk of the technology itself, but we do see the technology improving year on year, and that would add edge to us rather than, well.
Correct. And what happens once... I mean, the battery would have a life of about 8, 10, 12 years, depending on how much we use it. What happens post that?
Variety of business cases are possible. Battery will have a very long life. Even after 10, 12 years, battery will have a. There, I would say, SOH cycles will be slightly different because the depth of the cells and stuff will be slightly different, and may not be wise to use as a utility-scale battery storage, but battery is still a battery, can be used, can be recycled. There are multiple business cases that can. Depending on the cost, technology, and, you know, what exists 10, 12 years down the line, we can find an application. Rather, I tell you today, there is a very vibrant battery recycling industry in India itself, forget about China.
But to predict that what will be the price of battery recycling 10, 12 years down the line would be a bit too much crystal ball gazing. But I can tell you there is sufficient applications that exist after 10, 12 years.
Right. But none of this is captured when we bid for the project, I mean, in our IR-
I don't think I can answer that question, Pratik.
Okay. Fair enough. So second, as we, I mean, so one is to maintain this DPU, I mean, first of all, I mean, a great increase from where we started. So one is to maintain this DPU of INR 15 for as long as possible, and second is this accretion, which we intend to keep doing over a period of time, and we have done a fine job over the last 5-7 years. But as we keep growing larger and larger, does it become harder to kind of capture this increase given the number of projects or the size of projects that we have to keep onboarding?
To your question, yes. As you become larger, it takes more effort to grow on a larger base, 100%. It is, it is, I mean, five years ago, INR 2,000 crore was a large sizable growth. Now, INR 2,000 crore become the 8% of the overall books. So it's, as we become large, we obviously have to target larger targets and larger growth cycles. Fortunately, the market that we operate in has been growing very fast and large, so we are hopeful that, we'll be able to, you know, keep up our share of growth rate that we are working towards. So and then the first question, I think we do publish indicative DPU profile, but it's indicative, but it's published in slide 15. You may want to refer that. There is a sizable amount of, let's say-...
pathway, the path where we can maintain INR 15 a unit without acquiring any more projects, which allows us sufficient time to maneuver, find projects, develop projects, acquire projects, to ensure that we are able to maintain as well as grow EPS.
Correct. And last question from my side, I mean, we commissioned Kallam, our first greenfield. So can you just share some experience, how is it putting up? How is the team being developed? Because now we are also taking up a few more greenfield projects.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So what we have done is, we have made a separate business unit within IndiGrid towards projects, and headed by our extremely senior gentleman, who has got very deep experience on power sector. And, so we have put together a business unit on project side, that look for larger projects, because in addition to Kallam One, we also have several, regulated tariff mechanism projects going on across the country already on our substations. So there is a lot of CapEx happening in our portfolio, put together INR 2,000 crore of T plus around 4 crores of, cost plus projects, so in all, INR 25 crore of CapEx that we are doing. So we have identified, several of our team members within IndiGrid itself, who are doing, who have done CapEx in the past, who are being reassigned the responsibilities on the project side.
We are augmenting further as we look for other projects. I think the core talent remained in IndiGrid from the beginning, and wherever there was, I would say, leadership required, we've added leadership capabilities on the execution.
All right. Great! Thank you, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Participants who wish to ask a question may press star and one on your touchtone telephone. Participants who wish to ask a question may press star and one on your touchtone telephone. We have the next question on the line of Subhadip Mitra. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Hi, Harsh. My first question is again, with regard to the batteries. Just to highlight for us, you know, what has really changed over the last 6-8 months, which has led to this, sharp reduction in costs? What we understand is, okay, while lithium prices have come off, may, may not have come off by more than maybe 20-25%. So is it that there is a, you know, function of probably some near-term or medium-term dumping by China because they are not able to sell enough batteries to the European EV industry, given restrictions there? Is this more of a short-term event or a near-term event, or do you see that there is a structural change in battery prices and they will keep on getting cheaper? That's my first question.
Thanks. I think to answer the first question, I would say I won't use it like, I won't use the word dumping. There is a significant scale that China has created in manufacturing batteries, and it is a scale business, because the larger the plants are, the lesser the cost is. Secondly, there is significant advancement of technology that Chinese have invested in. So a few years ago, there used to be cell size of 200 ampere hours, then 250, 280, 314. Now, this year, most Chinese have announced 350 ampere hour cells. And just to put things in context, between 350 ampere hour cell and a 280 ampere hour cell, in the same volume, you can pack 25% more volume, more power, right?
So essentially, you have reduced the rest of the balance of supply cost by 25%. So there is a lot of advancement on R&D side that they are working on, as well as they have got the scale. Now, the biggest driver, other than the lithium prices, what we've seen is, overall, globally, the EV expansion or rather the growth that was estimated has not taken place. And most manufacturing facilities at the cell level are pretty similar with, rather same for EVs as well as utility scale storage. So the EV growth that the world was factoring in has not taken place for a variety of reasons, political, economic, whatever reason.
Right.
Which has resulted into a lot of capacity being available for utility scale battery storage, where the application is kind of, very, very viable. So a lot of capacity, technological advancement, and I would say a glut in the market. All three things are contributing together. On top of it, yes, as you mentioned, especially U.S. is also not importing batteries from, China, if I'm not wrong as well, so that has reduced competition, or rather, that has, reduced prices in China. So I think many factors put together are contributing. I would not call it a short-term phenomenon, but at least mid-term, I would say it is continuing, a lower battery price, so hopefully it can remain stable.
Understood. And just like we've seen, you know, India also trying to, you know, we've seen that in solar modules, right? With the ALMM, everything. We are trying to become more self-reliant, and let's say, not have as much dependence on China. So, do you see things panning out in a similar manner on batteries also, or that's still some time away?
See, I think it can, because it's not impossible for India to develop that capability. What is difficult is to match the scale, right? For example, as battery storage, we are not comparable. We're not even putting up, you know, 0.5 GW of battery storage. But solar, India's total installed capacity is 90 GW, right? Approximately. China put in 42 GW in the last 1 year alone, in 1 year, right? So the scale is different. Now, will we be able to create the scale is the question. Yes, the government policy on PLI and other policy are putting trade barriers would help Indian manufacturers for a couple of years to build capacity. There are a lot of dedicated battery manufacturers in the country, right? And they are large themselves.
So I do see that there is a possibility that we can expand into it, but to stabilize a new plant, to produce out of the new plant, and customers accepting those batteries out of the new plant and implementing, in my mind, is at least a 3-4-year cycle. So if the government starts today, or let's say six months down the line, I see domestic utility-scale batteries, and when I say domestic, is we're still manufacturing at least 3-4 years away. But that's a mixture, and I do certainly see that happening and taking place.
Understood. Lastly, on, you know, the diversification that we've seen for IndiGrid, right, you've moved beyond, just, buying transmission projects, or mature transmission projects from others. You know, you're constructing, getting into greenfield, there is solar, there is this. So, in terms of a risk, balancing that you tend to do, how much of your AUM do you see moving towards these newer areas, or, and, and do you see any incremental risk, which can come to the instrument?
Yeah. No, I think, see, one of our core values is agility. We are agile. We will keep evaluating opportunities. On the other hand, we are conservative. So I, I won't call it any of them as a newer areas. I think we have pondered upon, experimented a lot on every business expansion that we have done. For example, before getting into batteries, in this way, we have installed the first battery proper plant in our substation, matched with solar, to make our substation, grid independent. So we consume during the day solar and in the evening battery. We made it work in our own substation two years ago. So we have our own, design and engineering and work done on those plants to learn, get our hands-free dirty before we expand it to this area. So that's on battery.
Same way on solar, we acquired a 100 MW plant, operated it for a couple of years before we took it to a GW. On the development, we did a INR 200 crore CapEx, we completed it, and now we have a INR 2,000 crore pipeline. So we've gone strategically, first taking a step, proving the concept, capability, building the capability, learning the ropes, and then expanding. So by the time we have really done something meaningful and tangible, it's no more a new area, right? So that's how we have gone about it. In terms of risk reward, it's largely homogeneous. Most of them are annually linked, so we don't see that as a material risk. And even the projects that we have gone on our under construction side are fairly de-risked.
So we would like to move in that direction, and we are confident that we're not adding a substantial amount of risk because of that.
Okay. And is there an in-house target or a threshold that you have as to how much would get allocated towards these newer areas, or it's fairly homogeneous?
See, the battery storage is kind of a core area. It's part of transmission. On the development side, we'll not cross 10% of capital deployed, that's what is the part of our overall steady cap. And renewables will remain around total 25%. So that's the overall guardrail within which we'll operate.
Understood. Thank you so much. I'll get back in with you.
Thank you.
Thank you. We have the next question from the line of S Agarwal from Max Life Insurance. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, good afternoon. Collection efficiency for solar asset has reduced to 89% this quarter, which was 128% last year, same quarter. So is this as per your expectation, better or lower? And is there any specific counterparty where you are seeing the collection efficiency to be lower?
Thanks. I think, I mean, if you look at the quarter-on-quarter comparison, right, it looks like 128-89, but on a full year basis, it's still 101, right? So it's still collecting past dues. So our quarter two and quarter three were very good, and typically what happens in general is when your couple of quarters are very good, the third quarter is down because the customer is paid off of, you know, substantial amount of dues. So then there's we take a breather and subsequently increase. So, this is... We don't see it as systemic. We don't see as one particular customer delaying. It is just a normal trend that we have seen, that once you have a large quarter, the next quarter or quarter after that is relatively good.
Okay.
Do you have any further questions, Mr. Agarwal?
No, no, thanks.
Thank you.
Thank you.
We have the next question on the line of Nipul Kumar Shah from Sumangal Investment. Please go ahead.
Hi, thanks for the opportunity. So my question is, regarding our new acquisition of this solar acquisition. So what type of quarterly revenue and EBITDA hundred we can expect from this asset on a steady state basis, sir?
... Yeah, Meghana, you want to answer that question? On Renew, I believe you meant on Renew, acquisition, right?
Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
Yes. Yes. Thank you. Yeah, Meghana?
Hello? Am I still muted?
Yeah. Uh,
Yeah, one moment. One moment. So on an annual, I think on annual basis, the revenue from the ReNew asset would be in the range of around INR 700-INR 710 odd crore. And on the EBITDA basis, sorry, revenue-
Sorry, Meghana.
Sorry, sorry. Revenue would be about INR 200 odd crores, in that range, INR 190-INR 200 odd crores. And EBITDA will be somewhere about INR 175 odd crores.
Okay, thank you.
Yeah.
Thank you. We have the next question on the line of Anirudh Singhi from the Dolat Capital. Please go ahead.
Hi, good afternoon. Just, correct me if my understanding is wrong, our NDCF for the year was INR 1,240 crores, around INR 1,240 crores, right? And, we have to pay out 90% of which, of that, which is around INR 1,120 crores, but we paid only INR 1,050. So how do we account for the missing 70?
Yeah. So, to clarify, the NDCF formula has two legs, and it has changed with the new SEBI regulations. NDCF formula required us to distribute minimum 90% from SPV to IndiGrid, and from IndiGrid to investor, another 90%. So it is a 90% threshold at SPV level and 90% threshold at IndiGrid level. So therefore, effectively, it is 81% mandated. And, and therefore, that's the math that we need to run, that 90% at both levels. Having said so, SEBI has implemented a new NDCF formula, applicable from April 1, 2024 onwards, whereas we have put an obligation of minimum 90% at the consolidated level, the way you calculate it. So the formula has slightly changed-
Coming from next year.
From this quarter onwards. Yeah, from this, this year onwards.
This year, yeah.
Otherwise, it was 90% of 90%.
Right. Okay, thanks. And, just that, now that we have a sizable solar portfolio, are we also looking at wind and hybrid projects, or do we not have the capabilities for that?
At this point in time, we are not looking at it. We do have capabilities for that. Satish, our Chief Operating Officer, has done a lot of wind projects. He was earlier GE Wind CEO, so he's done a lot of wind projects, in his life. But at this point in time, we are not looking at hybrid projects or wind projects.
Is it economics that it doesn't add up, or why is it that we're not looking at wind?
I think the wind projects, first of all, wind projects, to manage it efficiently requires skill, and if you have large amount of wind projects, that may add variability to our business, which we don't like. So I think that's one. And second is, our right to win is not very clear on hybrid and wind projects. In whichever area we have entered, whether it's solar, whether it's battery storage, whether it's development or transmission, at least internally, we've been able to clearly identify and convince ourselves of our right to win in the market. On wind and hybrid side, I would say even though a lot of us have worked with independently, we're not sure a right to win exists so clearly at this point in time, and the risk capital. So that's what has kept us away.
Okay. And lastly, do you have any update on the monetization, the power grid monetization?
No updates really from us. I can't, we haven't heard anything.
Okay. All right, thank you.
Thank you. We have the next question on the line of Shyam Karwa from Karwa Investment. Please go ahead.
Yeah, congratulations to the team for excellent operational and financial performance, sir, as well as the growth in guidance given for the coming financial year. I have one or two small queries, yeah. First one is regarding delay in the quarterly results. We are generally seeing the IndiGrid is declaring results in the first or second quarter of May, but this time it is, I think delayed by, say, some 15 days. Any specific reason for this, sir?
No specific reason. We plan our quarterly and annual board meetings in advance, so our directors' availability, as well as, you know, the annual audit takes time. So I think between both these factors, we are well within a statutory timeline, so that's how we follow up on this.
... No, it is definitely within the statutory timelines, sir. But, as far as IndiGrid is concerned, we expect something more, and we are habituated to that. So it will be better if in future, the timeline taken for declaration of quarterly results is as per the previous practices. It is just our suggestion.
Thank you. Thank you for the suggestion.
Okay, next, this, we are always talking about stable and sustainable DPU, sir. I just want to know the risk factors, the major risk factors, if any, which may dilute our this commitment.
Ah! Yeah. No, I think it's a very, very deep question, Mr. Carter. I think see, there are a variety of risk factors. The first one I would say, which, can have a major impact, right, is-
Yeah.
-is cost of, cost of financing, right? Which is, we, we run a, our, our net debt today is around INR 17,000 crore.
Yeah.
So, cost of financing can have a sizable impact. While we do everything in our power to, you know, hedge and lock in and do different types of instruments, eventually it's market. While we have seen ups and downs of the cycle over the last 6-7 years, we have done everything possible to keep our cost within, you know, 7.5-7.7, pretty much in that zip code for a long period, even during extreme market volatility or interest rate trends. Having said so, it's not—I think it is still the biggest risk factor, right? It can change. It can change, like you all saw, while we believe that the RBI guideline that has come up, or the draft is not applicable on us, it's applicable for project financing.
You know, the regulatory actions can go in any direction, right?
Yeah.
And that can have a major impact. So I think factors like that, that impact our cost of financing can be one big operating risk. The second risk is, we are in 22 states, right? We, if you look at the presentation, our total number of assets are 39 lines, 15 substations, about 64 plus about 16 solar projects, so 18. Adding new locations that we are on to around 85 to 90 locations in the country across 22 states and UT. So there is always something happening, right? We are so strapped, and, they can be flood risks, there can be heat wave, there can be flash flood, there can be droughts. There's something or the other happening. And when we have a large portfolio,
Yeah.
There is always something that can happen to our assets, right? Because we are across country. So that's the biggest, second biggest risk, right? To impact on our assets because of natural calamities, man-made calamities, different things. Now, we are very diversified, so no one asset has ability to move our business materially. But even after that, it is a, it is the second biggest risk that, that I see to the business. Third risk I do see into our business is collections, as I think many of the current investors will ask. If a collection gets stretched from customers, that also can have an impact. But we have cushions in our cash flows, we have sizable cash balance and all that, but I would say that as a third risk.
I would say between these, you would have caught, you know, high level significant risk of the business.
Yeah. As far as which, finance cost is concerned, I think, the interest rates are at their peak. So in future, if the interest rates go down, whether we are going to get benefit out of that?
I mean, your question was on risks, so I described the risk. When you oppose the risk, it becomes opportunity.
Yes. You know, there is a silver lining in every cloud, no, sir?
Correct, correct. Yeah. So it can become an opportunity for sure. I don't want to predict it.
Yeah.
But it can become an opportunity.
Yeah. As and when, as and when it happens. Okay, regarding the solar, solar assets, I have a small query, whether there is any seasonality aspect in this, solar generation? This quarter, okay, it was good. In future quarters, whether it will be, plus or minus or something like that, any such seasonality factor is there, sir?
There is seasonality in solar assets. It is not as much as wind.
Okay.
Satish, you want to give that answer?
Yeah, sure, Harsh. Yes, sir, there is certainly a seasonality, the way seasons are changing.
Yeah.
And also of late, we are noticing bit of shift in climate patterns as well. But good part of wider portfolio is we are diversified across various geographies. So if one state has problem, another state can, you know, compensate for that. So that's the benefit we get with a diversified geography. Yeah.
Okay. Okay, just one last point there, Mr. Harsh, regarding natural calamities, I think we must be having some insurance coverage for that.
Yes, we do.
Because I was seeing in the profit and loss account, the insurance expenses are substantial, some INR 24 crore in this financial year it was there. So this insurance cover, whether it is only for the assets or for the operations part also?
... No, I think insurance is the biggest cost in a P&L, and yes, we do take a very comprehensive insurance, so it is covered for all natural calamities. Many a times, revenue loss also is covered. It depends on the eventual cause, but yes, a sizable amount of insurance protection is there.
It means we are taking covers and precautions for all possible risks. That is my impression.
Yes, that's what we are trying.
Okay. Because why I am asking you so many questions is, I am now having good confidence on IndiGrid. So I am suggesting my friends and relatives also to invest in IndiGrid units. That's why I have asked so many questions.
Certainly. Certainly. Thank you.
Okay. I will hope you will do better and better in future, and we will get the fruits out there.
Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. We have the next question on the line of Sunil, and individual investor. Please go ahead.
Hi. Congratulations on an excellent quarter and consistent performance over the last 6, 7 years. Given that you have, you know, increased your solar asset, the mix, quite substantially over the years, I just wanted to know whether all those solar assets, the plants, are in the land that they are on, in the owned category or the leased category or rental? Because given that land acquisitions and, you know, everything that goes on in India, I think it would be, no matter how remote, they are, would be of value going forward. And, are there any scope for brownfield expansions or, you know, in that, area that you already have in the, in your solar assets, whether it's for BESS or for, you know, adding some more of, solar assets? Thank you. That's all my questions.
Thanks. I just, yeah, I don't think there's a sizable expansion opportunity in the current assets. There's not much free land. They're very limited. On the land side, I think we'll have to check, but give or take around 50% or 20% of capacity will be in the owned land. Rest all is going to be either a solar park or use the rental land, or we don't see beyond that 20% of the capacity being in the owned land. However, we have seen that even in the rental and lease land, especially in the tariffs which are competitive, right? Like INR 2.5-INR 3 tariffs, we do see there is a sizable extension possibility.
Because let's say 18 years down the line, most of the lease agreements are also extensible, and we do see, depending on the power tariffs at that time, if INR 3-INR 3.5 is competitive, we might be able to extend the lease and extend the contracts or even sell it on the exchange. So that opportunities do exist in most of those contracts.
Okay, thank you very much.
Thank you.
Thank you. We have the next question on the line of Sarvesh Gupta from Maximal Capital. Please go ahead.
Good evening, sir. Sir, now that,
Sorry to interrupt, Mr. Gupta. There is a lot of disturbance from your line. If you would go kindly off the hands, off the earphones and come on the handset mode.
Yeah. Is it better now?
There's still-
Yeah.
There's still not very clear.
Okay. So my first question was that now that we operationalized our first greenfield project after two and a half years, and, so what are some of the learnings, both positive and negatives, that we were able to understand about our own capability, in the project side?
There's nothing new. I think most of the core team that has come there, including me, have executed 25,000 power projects in our roles in Solar before. So we already have learning from there that we carry forward. So I don't think there are incremental learnings for us. Only in the integrated setup, we are doing it for the first time, and for us it is just starting small, proving that this works for you guys, right? Before really getting to the larger data. So I would say individually, professionally, no material learnings per se, because we've already lived through this cycle.
Okay. Generally, in case you are putting any projects anywhere, you know, there's a lot of management, which needs to be done at the local level to be able to deliver on time and make sure that, what the intention is, is actually being executed on the ground. How are we able to successfully sort of do it?
No, so I think, point one, we need to have people on ground, and that's something which we are aware and we have put people on ground upfront. So that's one. Second, the project that we chose was a substation project, so once we acquire land, we work within the perimeter, so it makes it relatively easier. And there are only 14 kilometers line. It is not a big long stretch. However, it was in Maharashtra, so it was difficult in terms of generally dealing with several social aspects. But I think the main point is that if we can plan it accordingly, we keep our contingencies and the people accordingly, then it is a matter of like any other project of managing man, machine, and material. It's as simple as that, and the same thing applies to our projects.
I think we are able to do it, and we will, I think we can repeat it, yeah.
Understood. You mentioned that you have got the right to win as per your understanding in some of the other businesses apart from projects like battery as well as solar. I mean, apart from the cost of funding, have we established other rights of win also? I mean, what are the things that we have learned about ourselves which are helping us probably do better than what our initial estimates were in these two areas?
I won't say cost financing as the only event, because that can apply to hybrid and solar also, right? I think the point is about discipline, about knowing what we know and knowing what we don't know. And that's why if we don't know how the hybrid projects will work for India, so we're not going to take a bet. On battery storage side, there is enough work that our teams have done over last 3 years. So while the news has come now, right, in this quarter, but it is hard work for our teams of 3 years of hard work of research, engaging with partners, visiting site, seeing plants, doing experimentation of projects. A lot of these things are the ones that give us insight and experience, right? And then we finally go and win.
So it's much beyond cost of financing. It's these kind of things also add to that. Certainly, there are advantages on tax and financing that helps us in any business. But eventually, knowing the business, its risks and opportunities and where one can save money and reduce risk, is the key. And I think if you have done it somewhere, it's easier to repeat. So transmission, as I said, all of us have the experience of doing it, so for us it's a repeat. For solar also, most of us professionally have worked for solar business elsewhere, and when we do bid over here, we just got the basic right for that. So I think the focus is on discipline, knowing the business, knowing its risk and opportunity, and then bidding.
That's how we go about it.
Understood. And, and lastly, you know, when we look at our portfolio, do you also see some opportunities for exits? Primarily because now that you have been running these assets for a long time, you would have made some differentiation that some of these assets may not be as good as others or may create some problems later down the line. So is that thinking existing or all the assets are more or less, commoditized or similar, and hence, we feel that everything should be run till the, tenure of these assets?
Okay. I'll tell you, we have not thought about it. In any case, SEBI regulations do not allow sale of assets with less than three years of holding period. Second, our own strategy is buy and hold. We are not a, we are not a buy and sell kind of trader, right? We are a utility. We buy projects and keep projects, earn yield and give out to unitholder. So we haven't given thought strategically or tactically to really monetize assets. That's, that's not part of our business and operating model. We haven't really operated that now. And if somebody comes and approaches that, "We'll give you some obscene value for some asset," then we'll take a look at it at that time, and we'll do what is right for the unitholder. But at least from our side, our strategy is not to really monetize assets.
Our strategy is to do assets and give yield to our investors.
Understood. Understood. Thank you. Thank you, and all the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. I would now like to hand over to Mr. Harsh Shah for closing comments.
Thank you. Thank you to all our investors for joining the call today and asking very, very, intelligent and good questions. We are working for you, and we are pretty, happy as, with the level of questions have improved, and you are taking deep interest in the business and asking the right sort of questions. We are always there to address them. We will continue our path of delivering stable DPU and growing it, especially now that we are working on the organic growth. We do look at the 10% capital, we can continue to deploy and do many projects which provide the yield to our unitholders. Thank you.
Thank you. On behalf of Nomura Wealth Management, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.