Good evening, friends. Welcome to the H2 and full year FY 2021 results by IRIS Business Services Limited. As a reminder, all lines will be in listen-only mode till the speakers have finished their opening remarks. Host will open the floor to participants to ask questions. This call is being recorded. Joining us on the call today from IRIS are S. Swaminathan, the CEO and Founder, K. Balachandran, Founder and CFO, and Deepta Rangarajan, the Co-Founder. Swamy will present an investor deck that highlights the business model, products, financials, and outlook for the future. Once the presentation concludes, we will open the floor to Q&A. We would request participants to click on the raise hand button or just input their name in the chat box. Before we proceed with the call, a disclaimer.
During the course of interaction and materials, we may make certain forward-looking statements, and this may not be viewed in conjunction with the risks the company faces and may not be updated from time to time. More details are provided at the end of the investor material and other filings that can be found on our website at www.irisbusiness.com. With that, I would like to hand over the call to Swamy to take us through the company's vision and strategies. Over to you, Swamy.
Thank you, Diwakar. On behalf of my colleagues and everybody else here, I extend you a warm welcome as well, because Diwakar's first interaction with us as heading investor relations. Thank you, Diwakar, for accepting the assignment, and I'm hoping that with Diwakar's inputs, we will be able to literally engage with investors in a much more meaningful manner than we've actually done in the past. Not that we've not done it, but I think it's useful to have the professional input from somebody like Diwakar. Is my screen visible?
Yeah.
Okay. Lovely. Okay. The disclaimer has been given by Diwakar already. I think many of you who have been to our past earnings calls and seen our annual reports know that we have three segments in our business. What we call collect, create, and consume. Collect is basically a software business software through which regulators collect data from those that they regulate. Create is a suite of software products used by enterprises to create data for submission to the regulator. Let me give you examples from both sides. Reserve Bank of India uses our platform to collect data from all the banks in the country. All the banks in the country submit data to RBI using our platform, using our software. Reserve Bank of India uses a product called IRIS iFile, through which banks submit data to RBI in a format called XBRL.
The banks use our software, which in some cases has been given free to them by RBI, to create the documents for submission to RBI. Many other banks use our price software as well, which allows them to automate their submission to RBI. The software used by RBI is the collect segment, which we have implemented in about 24 regular countries with about 30 odd regulators. The software that we implement for the enterprises to create the data for submission to the regulator is what we call the create segment. There are multiple products there. Finally, we have the data analytics segment, because there's no point in collecting all this data if you're not going to analyze it. We have a software business sitting there as well as a data as a service business sitting there. What is this thing called XBRL?
It's an information standard. Across the world, there are many information standards we've actually come up with. If you were sending money to your grandmother or somebody else across the country, and you had to go and add a beneficiary in your bank account, the banks would use a messaging protocol to ensure that the money reaches the account to which you want to send the account. That's a standard. In the securities market, there are standards like FIX that are very common that people use. XBRL is now a standard used across the world for financial reporting. Some 70 countries in the world have adopted it. Asia, for example, Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, and so on, so forth. Apart from Africa, where there are only two countries adopting it, in every other continent, there's a significant utilization of XBRL by various regulators.
We were one of the early birds in this XBRL space. We stumbled onto XBRL quite by chance, in 2005, and we built our business around it, but we also work with standards other than XBRL. In the collect business, we work with regulators, helping them collect data in XBRL and other formats. In the create business, we work with enterprises, giving them software to submit data in XBRL and other formats. In the consume segment, we help with not only the collection of data, not only the analysis of data, but also cleaning of data and also data as a service. People talk about data being the new oil. People talk about AI. People talk about ML. If you can't get your data right, all intelligence will only be artificial. There's nothing called artificial intelligence then. You need data to be structured properly.
You need data to be structured properly in a manner where it can be exchanged with each other. You need data to be structured properly so that it's trustworthy. Only if you structure data, do things downstream like AI and machine learning and other things actually come into play. If data is ab initio at the beginning itself not structured properly, then what you will get is garbage inputs. What we are focusing on is basically ensuring that the data is structured properly. If the data is structured properly, you can build your AI business around it. If data is structured properly, you can build other businesses around it. To come back to my slide here. We've been around for a long time. We actually stumbled on XBRL, as I told you by mistake in 2005, when a company in America outsourced their XBRL work to us.
We developed the first XBRL filing platform for the Bombay Stock Exchange in 2007, 2008. SEBI made the common filing platform by 2009. Thereafter, we won the mandate from RBI. From then on, we never looked back. RBI is one of our favorite clients. We're very happy with the way we work with RBI. In fact, during the pandemic, three of my colleagues have been also locked up with the RBI team to ensure that the data that flows into RBI continues to flow into RBI without any kind of hindrance. Today, we've also ventured beyond XBRL by creating a GST platform, which is now used by some of the top companies in the country. We've basically worked around creating products that meet various data standards.
If you want to look at the way business is structured, in the area of collect, getting the country started, getting the regulator started with XBRL is about giving them a dictionary of data elements that they need to report. That's called taxonomy. There's a strong consulting element to the business in the area of collect, where we charge on the basis of the effort that we actually put in. We have the product called iFile implemented on-prem at the regulator's end to help the regulator collect data from those that they regulate. We are trying to move this on-prem model to a cloud model, to a SaaS model. You look at regulators, banking regulators are very finicky about data on the cloud. They don't like it in most countries. Capital market regulators are less finicky, and business registries are the least finicky.
We've been engaging with regulators to see whether we can take the whole thing from an on-prem model to a cloud model, to a SaaS model. We currently have one SaaS model working in the case of collect segment that's in Mauritius, where companies file with the company registry using our software. The create segment is mostly SaaS, except for iDEAL, where we have moved to, even though it's on-prem, pay over a monthly billing model, where basically we're charging for software rentals effectively, though it's not on the cloud, therefore, there are difficulties in terms of monitoring it, but it's not on a per filing basis. It's on a per unit of time basis. CARBON is our tool used for filing to ROCs in different parts of the world, and capital market regulators is a completely separate solution.
It's used in different markets around the world for different activities, for filing to business registries, for filing to capital market regulators, most recently even for filing to NC regulators like CUP and so on, so forth. That's a huge growing opportunity. We'll talk about it. IRIS GST is a completely SaaS model. Carbon works on Microsoft Azure. IRIS GST works on Amazon, where we have some of the top companies in the country using our solution. These are actually new mandates that come up after the GST mandate actually came up, where we build products customers independent of just the whole GST solution. iDEAL and MD 50 is what we use for banks on their solutions, and we charge a quarterly to them. In case of consumer, we have two products that currently get used every day. One is what our credit score called Peridot.
Peridot is not 1800 years that credit score has right now. Credit score is basically data as a service for digital lending. Many use us for fetching data about borrowers, which they then consume when they're lending on those. IRIS Peridot, which is a free app on your mobile, allows you to track compliance of your vendors. At the same time, there is also a dashboard where people pay fees to Peridot to the systems to decide who to actually work with. These are some of the customers that we actually work with globally, and these are mighty customers. They are very, very big customers. You see some top names from India like Larsen & Toubro. You see some great names from the U.S. like Bloomberg, and from the U.K. like HSBC, Intrum, Kotak.
You see names from across. Yeah, Apollo Group is a huge retailer in the Middle East. BMW. We work with BMW in a couple of countries. We work with Tata, Bajaj Group, Bajaj Auto, Bajaj Finance. We work with Reliance Industries. We are a trusted solution provider for enterprises who need to comply. In the compliance space, we serve over 6,000 enterprises who file their data using our platform. The iFile product, the collect segment, are the first three columns you see here. Business registries in Thailand and other parts of the world, including Singapore. When people ask me how good we are, I mention the example of Singapore. Because if Singapore uses your product, that's great endorsement. Singapore's company registry called ACRA uses our solution for receiving the filings from the companies registered in Singapore.
Among central banks, we have Reserve Bank of India, Bank of Mauritius. Most recently, we've got Nepal Rastra Bank, and we also have the Bank of Jordan. We are expanding that market gradually. Among SECs and stock exchanges, we owe a debt of gratitude to Bombay Stock Exchange for being our first customer, and in fact, it happened after the GST. Thereafter, we've expanded our footprint across the world through the Middle East and also other parts of the world. This is just some of the customers we actually work with. We obviously could go into the details of every customer that we actually have, but that's tedious. These are all reference customers who are good for us. One of the things we actually take great pride in at IRIS is our quality of governance.
I don't know how many people know, we've got one of the fastest IPOs in the history of India. We filed our prospects 18 September, and our IPO opened on the 29th of September. Not because we knew anything special, but most importantly, our governance has been absolutely top-class. From day one, we basically said, "If we are creating a company that will ultimately go public, we need to pay attention to governance." While we as founders are certainly on the board, the people we're really grateful to are our independent directors. Under law, we don't need to have a majority independent directors, but four out of our seven directors are independent. I cannot overemphasize, all of these are friends director-wise.
Every one of them that came on board, they basically said, "We want to be your rubber stamp, but we want us to question you." They question everything we do. Sometimes it's very maddeningly so, but we are extremely grateful to every one of them for literally keeping us on our toes. We know that there was an M&A cycle where we made a few minor workouts, but we did that. We grew our company. We did jurisprudence. CFA came on its own. Bhaswar Mukherjee is an old friend from the world of Forbes. He talked about saying that if you cut his veins, you'll actually find oil in his body. He was at ICICI. He knows oil industry inside out. He's a deeply experienced in the world of finance. He chairs our audit committee.
One of the reasons he came on our board when we have our meetings. Ashok is a brilliant marketer who works at Hindustan Unilever Limited and worked with media for a number of years before he quit, and he runs his own startup, and in addition to that, he's also on our board. Haseeb Drabu, you may know from his columns that he writes. He's a very well-known media person. He writes very famous columns. He was also in the finance minister of J&K. Before that, he was the chairman of J&K Bank. He adds a certain amount of value. He was also very important in the GST Council where he helped shape the GST policy. The pandemic has, of course, affected us. After the pandemic, hopefully, our revenues will be much higher. The way the pandemic actually affected us was we couldn't travel.
When you are a company based out of India and then you want to convince people to look at XBRL, you need to go and physically meet them. Most of the world still looks at a face-to-face model, that they like face-to-face meetings. We could not have face-to-face meetings, which is the reason why you will find that in the collect segment, our revenue has actually dropped because there have been absolutely no implementations. Even existing implementations got delayed because in many offices, in many banks across the world, people have not been coming to office. When people don't come to office, and in those countries where they don't have the facility to work out of home and monitor work done by people like us, it becomes a problem.
Our revenue drop in the collect segment is largely because of the pandemic, and the lack of revenue growth is also because of the pandemic. In the case of the create segment, while we do have two colleagues in Europe, one who's out of Barcelona and a new recruit out of Paris, are both Europeans, I think it's important to have Goras to sell in Europe, we have not been able to travel to meet companies. Whenever we met companies, we've done extremely well. In fact, our experience pre-pandemic shows that whenever we met companies, we've come off as extremely persuasive people with an excellent product, which shows up in the revenues that we actually got from Europe this year. The second thing that actually happened in Europe was the European mandate got postponed by a year.
Out of the 27 countries in Europe, it was 28 before U.K. left the EU. Out of the 27 countries, it's almost a 50/50 split. Some have postponed the mandate by a year, and that's led to a detriment of revenues. Those that have actually continued with the mandate have given us a fair amount of business as well. We've not done too badly by over a 6% market share in Europe in terms of the number of companies who actually signed up with us. In the case of consumer, there's not been a very major impact because we've really not launched too many products there, and that's mostly domestic-focused. At a corporate level, the virus, of course, affected us. I lost my mother in the course of this virus. I was down with COVID. Balu was down with COVID. Deepta was down with COVID.
We've all been affected by it. We've also lost two very valuable colleagues to the virus, and we've not kept our offices open. In spite of that, for a rat coming to your house, you don't need to keep your door open. A small hole or a drain pipe is enough. We kept the office closed, and we've basically been able to operate very much from home until very recently. Even after that, only when the air clears will people actually come in. What we have learned in the course of doing this is the ability to reach out to customers without a face-to-face meeting. We've significantly strengthened our marketing team during the normal, so that even if the process is on time, we are able to launch digital marketing initiatives to reach out to our customers.
We started a front where we recruit very well, where we recruit from places like Jaipur. We should recruit from there and not get them to come to Bombay. We've been able to recruit from anywhere in the world in a world where people are actually working from home. That's a significant change in our own whole approach to life. I will invite Balu to take you through our financial numbers. Balu, you want to take over?
Thank you so much, Swaminathan. I hope all of you can hear me. It's good to be back here speaking to all of you. I'm happy that all of you have joined in good numbers. We'll go through the financial performance of the company fairly quickly. I trust all of you would have seen our filings with the BSE as well as the press release. In that context, I'll try to quickly go through the financial numbers.
Before that, let me also say that as I mentioned in the past, that our business is extremely seasonal. This quarter too, of course, it's working here as well. One reason we have seen a relatively larger bump of advance filings by enterprises, typically for the second half of the year. Having said that, let's get the numbers maybe more in detail. Can you go a screen before that, Swami? Let's see the screen before that. No, this is filings by-
This is the first slide.
Okay, fine. if you look at the trend in terms of performance as a company post-IPO, you can see the trajectory steadily going up. We had a one year of about INR 27 crore just before the IPO. Now we did about close to INR 57 crore, and we have grown at a CAGR of about 15%. Of course, our aspiration to grow at a much higher rate. we have managed that, and more importantly, we have kept our expense growth low. because of the same product we're operating, to some extent, we have been able to start doing well from FY 2020 also.
If you look at our FY 2020 performance, we had an EBITDA of about INR 8.2 crore, EBITDA over INR 2 crore. from there, we have more steadily grown in numbers, about INR 1 crore EBITDA and INR 3.8 crore in terms of EBITDA. For PAT point of view, it's about INR 2.72 crores as well. From a year-to-year basis, can we go next slide, please?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm trying, Balu. I'm trying. There it is. There it is.
Okay. This is a typical way. The stock exchange wanted to report their numbers. If we look from this point of view, you will see that full year to full year basis, our top line has grown about 10%, while on a half yearly basis, the growth is 15%. More important, the EBITDA growth has been 23% on a year-to-year basis. On a full year basis and from a half year basis, it is even better at 43%. Of course, PAT has done quite well as well. One of the main reasons why revenues have been growing, we have been able to manage our expenses, contain our expenses with the result that our earnings have expanded to a bit, to an extent. Can you go to the next slide, please? Let's look at the balance sheet.
From the balance sheet front, there are a couple of key points I want to highlight here. One is from a debt aspect, we have repaid all of our loans. The INR 14 lakhs you see there is on account of a financial lease transaction that we entered. If you take that out, we have repaid a lot of our debt, and we have no overdraft facility. We changed the bank as well. With the result that our interest costs also in this year should be at a significantly lower rate. We got good rates, and that should start improving from FY 2021 onwards. Overall, our total debt has really come down. The other important point I want to mention here is in terms of receivables.
We always had a slightly higher receivables, partly driven by our regulator customers who take time to pay, and they pay in a lumpy fashion. This time with higher revenues coming from the enterprise segment, we have been able to rein in receivables to some extent. We are down to about INR 13 crores, about 25% drop compared to the number in the previous year on a higher revenue as well. There are two key points I want to mention when looking at the balance sheet. Can you go to next slide, Swamy? Okay, this is about a point which I already mentioned, but just for the purpose of reiteration, let me mention that outside your revenue growth and your expense growth, which have been 10%, 9%, even the profit has gone up a little more, 10%, we are 11% on the top line of the expanded EBITDA.
Outside that, let me say that we have seen quite a significant improvement in our cash flow from operations, and that is partly because of better receivables management. That also because now we have broader revenues as well. the cash flow from operations have moved up to 11.2 crores from 1.8 crores, which I think is quite remarkable condition that we operated in the previous year. Of course, our focus even in the previous year was to make sure that we sustain the business, number one, and number two, we enhance the liquidity. to that extent, our cash flow from operations increase has really helped us. With the result that cash and cash equivalents moved up quite substantially to 8.45 crores from around 1.61 crores in the previous year. that's a couple of key points I want to mention in the highlights slide.
We can look at the revenue split. Before that, I just want to keep also our key ratios obviously still good to what the numbers were in the previous year with a better performance. ROE, we have to beat, of course. Battery is completely firmly above our debt, as I already said. Which is the ratios I want to also highlight the debtors in terms of days. It has come down to 85 from 125 in the previous year. The credit also has come down to 0.22. Return on net worth. This is very important. If someone asks myself, "What should I be working on?" I would say I look at three things. One is, of course, the annual recurring revenue. The second will be return on net worth, and third could be perhaps cash flow from operating activities.
If you look at net worth, we have gone into a double digits. As a company, we fully rely on our IP, and it's believed by its software products and its IP. We expect this to improve going forward with the excellent services. Can we go to the next slide, Swamy, please? Okay, here is a look at the revenues, how the revenues have moved in the last five years. The key thing I want to mention here is that look at our recurring revenue, what we call revenue, which come on an annual basis without too much extra sales effort. We have long contracts. If you look at where we were in FY 2017, we were at INR 1.96 crores, and we moved up to INR 40.23 crores. That is a 10-fold in seven years.
This is the thing which we are focused on, and this has shown decent growth rates, and this is where we want to make sure that we sustain our performance in this direction. Coming to the segments, Swamy mentioned that our tax segment, where we work with the regulators, did take a soft hit because of the pandemic year, because public sector spending slowed down during the pandemic, and we could not get any new contracts during the previous year. Of course, we were delivering on existing contracts, and we were also managing existing clients as well. Number two is, Swamy, I think. To our relief, the create segment came to the rescue in quite spectacular fashion. You can see the create numbers moving from INR 18 crores- INR 29 crores in this year.
Of course, the proportion of create revenues, which has better characteristics in terms of its cash flows, margins, et cetera, has also been on the higher side. It accounts about 52% of our overall revenue pie for the year FY 2021. In terms of even segment profits, even though the tax segment took a small dip, not a small dip, came from 33% in terms of profitability, the create segment turned around. It swung to profit in a fashion, now we get about 20% of the profits. The margin from operating is basically played out. Recurring revenues now contribute to 70% of overall revenue as compared to 60% in FY 2016. Can we go to the next slide, please? Here is a geography-wise view of revenues.
You see customer wins from, of course, our GST did improve with the e-invoicing mandate coming in, so that helped in bringing up the overall revenues. Outside that, one thing I want to show here to note here is the Europe revenue. Europe revenue has moved up slightly from 4.7% to 11%, even notwithstanding the fact that the mandate for related commercial filing in Europe has been postponed to many countries in Europe, and some countries doing it voluntarily. Many of the customers that we have from last year customers, and they were keen to still go ahead and file voluntarily and we are getting a decent set of revenues from Europe in the year FY 2021. Next slide, please. Where do we go from here?
I'll take over. I'll go from here. In the case of iFile, which is the product we showed earlier, the collect segment, our focus is in fact on more and more big info SaaS companies we can. The problem here is completely RFP-driven. Regulators want to move to it, so there recently we had conversations with the CEO of XBRL International. XBRL is an open source standard maintained by a not-for-profit body located between the U.S. and the U.K.
We are talking to them about the ways in which some 70 countries are operating. When we see where every country in the world, it seems to be sort of top of mind from the perspective of the work that others are doing. The next slide will tell you a lot more. When you see RFPs from regulators and you look across the world, we have beaten more than half the competitors.
Three of the competitors were a company called Vizor in Ireland, a company called CoreFiling in the U.K., and a company called Invoke in France. We also beat CCH Tagetik, so four companies. Even though there are four other competitors, we have beaten more than half the mandates awarded globally. Today, anybody walks into Vizor, the regulator walks in to implement a regulatory filing platform in XBRL, which is the industry standard, we certainly get work, and we have beaten more than half. In the case of iDEAL, while we've had great success in the case of the banks in India, we are now getting inquiries from across Europe because we did a good planting in Europe.
Today, we are getting calls from Cyprus and Greece and others, where there are banks that need to report under the new compliance rule that's beginning to happen in the first of September. We have started getting customers in Europe for iDEAL. iDEAL has already currently got customers in India and Mauritius, and I think it's a good thing for us that there are banks in Europe looking at it. Our global focus, therefore, is to improve our marketing and marketing communication to be visible as a reliable provider of compliance solutions for the banking sector to regulators. I think the iDEAL focus is that one. Platform is now used not only in the U.S. and Europe and India and some other countries. There are some big moves happening in the U.S. where you will see something else. The U.S. is still the biggest market.
We are not making enough money there in the U.S. right now, even though it can be a potentially large market. We were big there about five, six years ago, at that time we had no funding to market or promote. Now we need to be able to snatch customers away from our competitors. We have good reason to believe that people will do that because in quality reports, quarter after quarter, we come out on top. You may recall that in the last three, we've been talking about how we've been figuring top of the quality charts. That continues. That's a great source of confidence for us. The other big mandate essentially come up is the U.S. energy regulator, who basically now has said that all energy companies also have to report in XBRL.
In fact, the big move that's happening in Nevada, every state government is now requiring all gaming companies to submit in this standard, and that's also a huge opportunity. We are now looking to strengthen our U.S. operations. In fact, to forestall the question that you might have asked, even with drop cash, we will invest in growing our market share in the U.S. market, and I'm hoping everyone will agree with that because I believe the return on that is much, much greater than any other thing that we can actually do right at the point in time. We are going to invest heavily in the U.S. market in terms of acquiring more and more customers. Deepta Rangarajan, can you possibly take us through the FERC mandate, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission mandates, and talk about how we approach it?
Sure. The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission that governs all the energy and utilities companies in the United States, and they have mandated now that energy companies need to start reporting in XBRL format. This mandate is not a mandate. It exists. The first phase, which is going to kick in end of this year, 2021, is going to affect over 800 companies. That's roughly about 850 companies. Next year, FY that is, sorry, in FY 2022 end, it's going to increase to over 2,000 companies. It's another big market with good potential. This is listed and unlisted companies in the U.S. We are going to sign partners as we talk. We've signed up a large partnership that specifically around this XBRL opportunity.
Exactly. We're quite optimistic about making a significant breakthrough in the U.S. in the next one year. Coming to GST. You know, GST started off as We were fortunate to still be among the people planting and making significant inroads to the market. There, you are seeing things also given competing more customers in. Finally, our IRIS Peridot application, which many of you are using, has now been relaunched with significantly more features. The next time you invest in a company, you actually verify the GST compliance of the company using IRIS Peridot. It's a free app. If you've not downloaded it, please download it because the new features there. Peridot, again, we have significantly more features. The CI, two things are going against us. One is, people are probably trying to acquire more customers.
There are companies that are basically one or two BC platforms who are basically willing to do it at throwaway prices, which are not sustainable. Even though the traditional SaaS model may basically not resonate well with the GST aims, and people are not going out there buying customers and blowing up the planet, we are mindful of the need to not do something that's ridiculous. Therefore, we will not do that too rashly. When you look at the earnings coming from our performance in GST, I'm sure our competitors will not too different. We're quite happy with that.
Going forward, how do we see this market operating? This is a document we put together based on what we see around the world and the activity. One major thing happening around the world is the following. It's got nothing to do with the pandemic idea or the pandemic thing in the last two years. Digital compliance is the order of the day. Digital compliance is not submitting data in PDF, because if you submit data in PDF, somebody on the other end has to still take out the PDF, pull out the data, input it into the spreadsheets, and do all kinds of things with it. Digital compliance is about submitting data. The moment you start submitting data, you need to submit data using certain data standards, and the most common one that's being used today is XBRL.
We see this RegTech opportunity in the space that we actually occupy as being huge, and we actually see creeping regulation happening across the world in so many different areas. When you look at countries like Australia, Finland, the U.S., where the entire government is moving to adopting data standards, this is where we hope. We have the products to meet those markets. What we are now is integrating a bunch of partner players to be able to do that. Being out of India, we have a cost advantage that others don't have. That still doesn't mean that we throw our prices. We try to add our price. At the same time, we try to put it to so the balance between being profitable and a profitable price. We look at price.
We don't run as expensive as some of our Western counterparts, but we believe that is the tick of a tick mark in the RegTech Opportunity. A company like IRIS, for example, has about 35 different compliance requirements that need to be made, about 350 forms that need to fill in a year. I believe that over the next one, two, three, four years, more and more of these things will move to digital filing, and that's where the opportunity lies. An integrated filing platform could be the way the world actually will go, and we are here for that. What we have created is deep domain understanding. You might have seen XBRL play for quite some time. We actually maintain a website that talk about many companies offering XBRL solutions. Many of them build solutions to convert data to XBRL and submit it.
Let me say, nothing against rocket science is rocket science, but at the same time, to be an expert in XBRL requires a significant amount of expertise, significant amount of knowledge to be able to deliver solutions. In fact, my mind goes back to the day when RBI had their first tender, where of the five others, plus others were disqualified because we were the strongest competitors. The current phase of RBI is the implementation of XBRL. We partner with TCS, who is a much larger product than us. Hardware and many other things we don't do. The system integration of TCS with XBRL components from Gaana, I believe, have been provided by us. We have also added one more data standard called SDMX into this whole grind. We understand XBRL and SDMX quite well. We believe building up a set of data standards.
Should we believe that the world of data can be powered because of standardized set of data standards, we're extremely well-positioned to be able to take advantage of that. We believe it will please happen. Now, there will be a few data stores who will not like software solutions. Majority of regulators will actually also like software solutions for simplicity of others, as long as the issue of reliability are taken care of. At the same time, the reliability world, where people in principle do it on one press, if I make a mistake, I correct it for immediately. Customer availability is key, and it will stay with you as long as you don't make a mistake and you're able to deliver it to customers all time, every time. I think we have the right business. I think we have the customer background.
I think we started early on last year. I think we did well this year. I hope that it continues. I hope the pandemic ends soon, but I think the pandemic certainly will have an impact on how fast we grow going forward, because in many of these districts, in many countries have come back to work partially. I think those are all good things that the U.S. very well will use us. The U.S. is also artificially being capped. Unlike Europe, where it's much more difficult because everyone takes much, much more.
We are very excited to be able to adapt to the U.S. market for reporting as well as the U.K. reporting, other reporting we have around the U.S. We actually believe we have a lot of U.S. companies we haven't reached. The products that we have are repurposable for different kinds of compliance requirements, and that we try to do data officially. I'm going to stop here. There's a lot more I want to do it because it's 7:30. It was a great interesting one. I'm happy to take any questions.
Thank you. I believe that I gave the floor in the box. When I talk to you, if you want to ask a question, please put up your hand, and then I'll unmute you, and then we can update. I just have one request. When you ask questions featuring me, just put them up so I make sure all the questions get posted across. Okay, the first question is from Ronit. Ronit, unmute you. You can unmute, share, and go.
Thank you for the opportunity and thanks for Deepta and Bharath for a great presentation. First, let me convey my condolences on having lost people in the pandemic recently.
If you don't mind, can you please step closer to the microphone?
Is it better now?
Much better.
Yeah, sorry. I was just saying that I just want to first convey my condolences. It's not easy to lose people, and this pandemic has been difficult on all of us. My first question is on Europe. We have done a spectacular performance in Europe, but I was wondering if you could add a bit more details. With regards to ESMA ESEF filing, how many customers have we won after March 31st, and what is the average revenue per customer that we are earning over there?
Ronit, can you tell us where you're from?
Yeah, sorry. I'm a shareholder in the business. I'm based out of Mysore.
Sorry. Okay. No, I just want to be careful that I don't have a competitor on the call. Thank you. I have to worry about things like that. Deepta, any question? Deepta Balu?
Balu, I think you can repeat the question.
Okay, sure. We don't normally give very precise numbers when it comes to companies and average yield. That has a competitive significance to it. Let me say that we have around, let's say, one, two customers in the market at this point of time, and the revenue yield, it varies a bit based on the size of the customer and the kind of t he nature of the contract, there's a certain panic is there. I would say that it should be somewhere between EUR 3,000-EUR 5,000.
Let me quickly add to what Balu said by answering the questions slightly differently, so I give you a better idea. When you look at the compliance filing, we have companies filing to ROC, and the pricing there typically is anything between $150 to $300, $400 per filing, and that happens once a year. In the capital market filing, typically, the pricing is anything from $3,000 to $5,000 at the lower end to about $10,000, $12,000 on the higher end. We have two models that we follow. We have partners to whom we do a transfer price and then they do a markup. In this case, we don't do the pricing. In some cases, we do our own share with a partner. In this case, we do the pricing.
When you look at the total revenues from the cloud offerings, you have the ROC customers who, depending on the country, could be anything from $150 to $300 to $400 per filing to the SEC customers and the FERC customers and other customers who could be anything from $3,000, $3,500 to $10,000 to $15,000, depending on what we're talking about. Putting it all together into one churn is often very difficult. I know you asked about the EU. Even in the EU, for example, there are differential pricing depending on which market you're from. The capacity we have built today in countries like Germany and France are very different from each of the countries. Therefore, we have horses for courses and painkillers when we do our pricing work.
That was very helpful, sir. Broadly, I understood across the board, so say 80% of the revenue comes from India and 20% from EU.
Yeah. We don't know the revenue per customers because of the nature of the product. Also, I'll tell you what we did, which is very important. Pre-pandemic, we launched an initiative that we called Create. For small apps, we offered this free for one year with no conditions attached. Made them our customer for three years, first year was free. it's traditional, it's normal in the cloud-based solution model to offer a freemium approach where you offer it free for one year and hope the customer stays with you longer. it's a fairly complicated structure, which is why coming up with one single number will end up being misleading.
Thank you. I did read your letter on LinkedIn on the GSTification and that was a great initiative, to be honest, and kudos to that. The reason I asked a little bit of detail on Europe is because when you mentioned you've added-
Let me speak to our customers. Let's keep it brief. Sorry. Yeah.
Yeah, sorry. My next question is again on Europe. You mentioned you have 6% market share. Could we have more details? Question number is, how many companies in Europe have to comply for sure by next year? How many have already done it so far?
There are 4,000 government companies in Europe. Of which about 1,000 are from the U.K. where the mandate has not gone live so far. That leaves 3,000. Out of 3,000 companies, many companies are from countries where the mandate is still not operational. In the countries where the mandate is operational, in the countries where we have tried to do, we have an effective market of about 6.5%.
That's a broad mark here on the land. Given the success that we had in these countries, I think that we can continue. It's not unexpected. If Bobby were to say, we want to have a greater kind of number and we are hoping to do the right things to get us to greater that kind of number. This is not a forward-looking statement. This is basically saying I want to finish my marathon less than I started. I want to run my marathon. That's my marathon goal.
Sure. Thank you, sir. Again, if you could give us a broad idea of how many companies in Europe have already shifted of the 3,000 ex U.K. that you mentioned. How many have already shifted as on March 31st, and how many are still to shift?
I don't have the accurate numbers right now. We're trying to get the numbers. The reason is, you see many good companies have gone into what's called voluntary filing. You need to combine voluntary filing along with mandatory filing. We will try and put something together and I will share with you.
Great. That was helpful. On the same topic, I mean with the same idea that we discussed Europe, what is the average pricing? How is the pricing structure there? What is the average pricing, et cetera? Have e-invoicing added a lot to the revenue per customer that you're earning there?
Balu.
The second question first. If you look at the e-invoicing part, e-invoicing would have added maybe about, I would say about 50% to the top line compared to the previous year. That has helped quite a bit. E-invoicing as a competition is even more fierce because it is from a regional company. Maybe it's less from us because. That's it, that's it, sir. Really important. Looking at our average yield per customer right now, if you look at a whole thing and combine the whole mix. If you look at how it would be our revenue per customer when you separate it, we haven't done that so far.
If you look at the average revenue we could get from an enterprise set, for example, it could be something like INR 1 lakh to INR 2 lakhs. We can get very small companies as well because we do get small companies. Some of them come to us because of reputation, because of the brand we are using. We have many small companies that come to us for, especially from certain sectors such as logistics during the e-invoicing period, which started from October 2021.
One of the jokes floating around in the GST space among the vendors is that very soon you will get your free GST filing coupon with your morning Kellogg's cereal. It's quite possible. That's the way the market is headed.
Understood, sir. That was helpful. I have one more question on Collect and then I'll get back to the queue for the participants to ask. Just curious to know, one, how is the outlook, let's say over the coming year and the next year in the Collect business? Second, I'm also curious to know, is our project with RBI that we won with TCS, have the entire revenues flowed into our P&L already or there is still more to go over next? And in what time will it flow into our P&L?
The outlook for the credit business next year is a function of how the regulators think. I think it's only now many of them do not have any information available to tell you how that will pan out. As far as the RBI is concerned, yes, there is still a fair amount of headroom available, and there is still some release to flow into the company on account of the RBI's implementation.
Will it be over two years? Will it be over three years? Is there anything you can say about that right now?
I think it'll be over the next 12 months.
Thank you. I'll get back into the queue for now. I have no question. I'll follow up later.
Thank you.
Thank you, Rohit. The next question comes from the line of Sajesh VS. Sajesh, I'll unmute your line. Please state the organization that you represent, and then go ahead, please.
Yeah. Hi, sir. I'm an Individual Investor. I got into I started with the company through you, and then I have been an investor since last year. My question is about credit score. Is it like a credit bureau, something like the likes of CIBIL, TransUnion?
No, it's not. It's simply APIs to fetch data that goes into your digital lending platform. Since we are a GSP, or what's called a GSP service provider, we have the right to fetch data from the GSP servers, with consent, for powering digital lending platforms.
Okay. Now one question, sir. Is it correct if I say that the create segment will be offered higher experience of workflow than the credit segment? Because you only serve 200 countries, limited. What percent of the total pie in the world has been adopted by XBRL?
70 countries, in each country, about four or five. I am glad you asked this question because let me tell you what is happening in India right now, which I think is a useful indicator. India, for example, Bombay Stock Exchange was the first implemented, followed by RBI, followed by ROC. Recently, IRDA has started implementing XBRL, and very recently, because RBI has issued a certain circular, NHB has started looking at XBRL. At one regulator does it, others do it. In every country in the world, there is about one, two, three, four regulators, right? In every country, there are about five to 10 regulators who could potentially implement XBRL.
70 countries, if there are 10 regulators per country, that's 700 regulators, but only less than half of them have actually implemented it because I think the conservative estimates are that 180 regulators in the world have today gone down the XBRL route. If you said there are 200 countries and 2,000 regulators, 180 is a very small number in percent of the regulators, but 70 countries. As you can imagine, the smaller countries, where you may not be able to make as much money, will be the ones still waiting to implement it. There are some very large companies as well. We also believe that the use case for XBRL will also expand, so there's still significantly more headroom. To answer your other question, Creation is where the action lies. In many countries, Creation is seeing a lot of action.
Since we are one of two companies with a global solution, with a cloud-based solution, and so on and so forth, we are well-positioned to capture market share. It's easier to do in markets where the mandate is just starting as opposed to markets where there are entrenched players, which is why I'm saying it's more difficult to get SEC customers than to get FERC customers. Your point is well taken. The create is where significant growth will happen going forward. That's also largely cloud and SaaS.
Okay, thank you. One more question, sir. I know that our business is highly seasonal. We publish results two times in a year. Is there any plan to go to the main board platform in BSE or NSE?
Once you finish class four, you have to go to class five. You can't stay back in class four.
Right. Yeah. Thank you. That's all.
Thank you.
Thank you, Sajesh. Next question comes from the line of Manan Patel. Manan, please go ahead. State your organization, please.
Can you hear me?
Yes.
Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, I'm Manan. I'm an individual investor. Sir, I wanted to ask about the opportunity size that your company has, where you mentioned that $6 billion is the current RegTech market, and it will grow to $16 billion. I understand you will not address the entire pie. What kind of size of the market are we looking at? Adjacent question is, you mentioned there are four competitors for you. I would like to understand the size of the other competitors as well.
The four competitors, Fujitsu is a very big company where XBRL is a very small division for them. Looking at the Fujitsu Big Numbers is not meaningful. As far as Vizor is concerned, Invoke and CoreFiling are concerned, they're all around the $10 million, GBP 10 million, EUR 10 million range. They're not much bigger than us. As far as the addressable market is concerned, I think the market is big enough to support any growth. We can grow at 5% a year. We can grow at 100% a year. The market is big enough to accommodate that. We grow at 200% a year, the market is big enough to accommodate that. What will be limiting is our ability. What will be limiting is our resources.
What will be limiting is our vision. I think the market is big enough to accommodate the aspirations we have. At the same time, we shouldn't chew off more than we can digest and choke. We're not hungry. We're a small company, 50-odd people. I think we are talking about a INR 15 billion market that's addressing us. It's like looking at the sky and saying, "Will a plane fly through the sky?" We don't need to fly through the sky. We just need to figure out what we can do profitably to ensure that our shareholders' aspirations are met.
Understood.
I'm also a shareholder.
Absolutely. Sir, the question along with that would be, you said your vision might be a limiting factor. I would like to understand over the next 3-5 years what kind of vision do we have? First, opportunity size is huge. Competition in online sales. Vision do we have for the?
This is the last making company I put a P&L on my own. This is the first, second, and third. Number of profits, number of times we have cash. When you have cash, the possibilities are more, and therefore, we do have a serious desire to grow. I realized, the other day when I grew up, even though I was trying to do this support or something like that. For the next 15 months, I believe that now that we are growing up fast, we are much better positioned to try and grow faster than we ever have.
While the size of our cash flow has grown substantially. Current markets close significantly, take a quantum leap down in the size of a company for growth.
If we look at this company in the last 10 years, that means what I'm saying, we've been starting as a company, and we have gone to a place where we want to be. I think throwing money at it does not get it. We need a significant amount of money or even a smaller amount of money to grow to the next level. Chances are low. At the same time, somebody might come and say, "You know what? I'll give you $1 billion, a $1 trillion valuation. I'll give you this money." That is what the promoters also benefited from that. I think we planned how to grow in a very sure manner, and we will try to continue to grow in a throughput way.
Understood.
I think actually, I just want to add here from a funding point of view. You mentioned about competition. Competition, you said might not be that intense, which turned out is the truth because it is still in the very, very beginning. We do see companies coming in from different areas as the market unfolds. If I talk about who I think we should also add, our foremost competitor today is a company called Workiva. It's an extraordinary company.
It's a brilliant company. You should look at the company. You should look at the company and the company's performance, you'll see what they've done. They came in, they disrupted the U.S. market and walked away with a giant market share. That is the company we believe. If there's one company that I want to follow, it's Workiva. Please look at Workiva, their financial performance, and look at what they've actually done. They've done magic.
Understood. Sir, my last question is, in terms of a company like us, a very important part of assets is the employees. You said throwing money is not the only thing, but obviously, having great employees is one thing. I wanted to understand with the size that we have, what kind of ability do we have to attract talent, and how do we incentivize them to stay with us?
For reasons we talked about, the CTO is good, he used to be with Accenture for many years. We are able to attract good people. See, ultimately, people go to successful companies. People go to companies which are on a growth path. What we have demonstrated in the last few years is that we've turned around. We were a KPO, we were a services company, we pivoted to products, now we're doing it SaaS. People like things like this. People want to be at the cutting edge of growth. People want growth, people have aspirations, and people want to be part of a company that's growing. We are hopeful that we will be able to attract much people going forward, not that we have attracted people. We have great people today in the company. It also allows people within the company to have a growth path in their own career.
Understood. sir, related to this.
Let's do the last question because I have to leave at 12:00. Just I can speak if you're sure.
Understood. I was going through your annual report, which is brilliant for the size of the company we are. Very good disclosures. In that, we have payables to promoter directors amounting to INR 1.6, which essentially means that you and your promoter directors have not taken a salary or it's still outstanding. I wanted to understand that.
It is still outstanding. The reason why the company is at the stage where it's growing is because the promoters and many employees have made tremendous sacrifices. In fact, not only promoter directors, even employees have put money, and the company could pay all the dues in the financial year. I'm not taking anything from this scheme, and I will not pay salary until every rupee of every employee is cleared. We are here today because every competitor in the market. I'm the one who started, I own 7%.
Next question is from Girish. Girish, do you want me to go ahead?
I do. I think you can.
Yeah, I can. Thanks.
Hi, Swamy. Girish, individual investor, invested for the last two and a half years. First of all, my condolences for your personal loss.
Thank you.
My question may be directed towards the asking in the number of accord you did explain about, if you have the opportunity. What I understand is, you would be able to use existing products like Carbon or would you create a completely new product.
It's a simple question. Even I see it as a complicated part of the equation for everything. Same products, the filing is very different. The forms are very different. Therefore, we have been consuming multiple taxonomies, and that's what the beauty of IRIS CARBON can also consume taxonomy in multiple languages. It's as simple as this basic product.
Having answered the question, I wouldn't say. Listen to me. It's not pieces of filer that are also based in the U.S. You need to do dual filing. Use the same product IRIS CARBON for both filings. You can consume taxonomy easily.
IRIS CARBON can be used for ROC filing, IRIS CARBON can be used for tax filing, multiple market filing, IRIS CARBON can be used for FERC filing, IRIS CARBON® can be used for German filing, IRIS CARBON can be used for U.K. filing.
Swamy, does it also mean that companies like Workiva who's well entrenched in SEC filing can come quite easily to FERC then?
Workiva is a competitor in FERC. Of course, they are. They're a very strong competitor in FERC. What we've done is we've tied up with one of the outstanding companies in the space. The whole XBRL movement in the U.S. was led by a guy called Hudson Hollister, who now runs a company called HData. For those of you who wonder how many people it takes to change the world, you should really check this guy out. He's actually single-handedly changed the world in a way by bringing a level of transparency which was not there before. XBRL US is their website.
They are partners. This data is led by Hudson, who made XBRL happen. That gives us tremendous on continuous parts. Yes, Berkeley Earth is a very strong competitor, and we take it completely mindful of that. Working with Hudson, we believe we have a significant opportunity in the market for FERC and thereafter for ICC.
Thank you. Sam, my next question is more on the consume side. Last time you mentioned that we can expect some announcements on the consume side. I don't see anything come. Anything is in progress or is delayed?
It is still in progress. I think if you look at the numbers of the company in the last three, four years, our losses were because of the investments made in the consume segment.
Right.
At the same time, we found that the market and by and large investing, we have a complicated business. When you have a complicated business, it's important to keep it. People say, "Profit make it or break it." We said consume segment is still a very important segment and we need to figure out what to do with the consume segment. We have launched Credixo as a consume segment product. We have launched Peridot as a consume segment product, and you can expect more products to come going forward. We have some ideas. We are working on a few things, but at the same time, it'll be a function of how much cash we can throw quickly to reinvest in the consume segment.
It will be more of an API-based economy that you're targeting?
Absolutely. Absolutely right. It will be products, but they'll also be API-based, feeding into end users, feeding into intermediate users and server end users.
Right. I also happen to see that, yeah, some API in the infinite.in site. What exactly is it you are targeting there?
No idea what that is. Balu, do you know?
This must be the IRIS Credixo database.
All right?
This is the particular Indian context.
Okay.
We offered APIs.
Yeah, I saw it.
We offered APIs. It's NPCI portal. NPCI, the National Payments Corporation of India, is starting an API kind of exchange where we offered some APIs as well. This must be related to that. We have been offering our APIs, especially the public APIs, to a good number of digital lenders and marketplaces.
Yeah, I happen to see it together with Ujjivan Bank trying to get your business.
Yeah.
That's what my understanding. Thank you. My question has been answered.
Thank you. We have a follow-up from the line of Rohit. Rohit, go ahead. Rohit, I can't hear you online. Please go ahead.
Thank you for the opportunity. I just have a couple of follow-up questions on Europe. I noticed that recently there is a CSRD directive that mandates ESG disclosure in Europe in XBRL. What does this mean for it? When will it be implemented, by what time period? What does this mean for us in terms of market size?
Balu.
The data would be out of place, but I can give you my two bits as well. This is a very important initiative because it has come at the right time. The ESG reporting in Europe used to be earlier done through a paper PDF mode, and that is for a limited number of companies, what is called the NFRD directive, the Financial Reporting Directive. The EU has come together and they're looking at the next phase of reporting from an ESG perspective. We have expanded the universe to 1,050,000 companies, which includes both public and non-public companies. That's one part. Other part is they're very clearly, unequivocally saying that, unambiguously saying that this reporting would need to be in an Inline XBRL format, similar to what is being done for the ESMA companies for financial reports.
Both financial and non-financial reporting will come together in an interactive reporting format for ESG. The other important part is ESG reporting would need to be auditable as well. A company which are going to report, say, carbon emission for plan A or plan B, we need to make sure that the data trail is maintained and this is auditable. All in all, I think a very ambitious directive. This will take a couple of years to fructify. I would say that a company would start looking at 2024 onwards. That's a very sparse timeline it took out. The direction is very clear. This is going to be a non-financial reporting in a big way. There is going to be a taxonomy, which is going to be developed by the newly constituted International Sustainability Standards Board, which is analogous to IASB for account reporting.
They will come with a taxonomy, and there is also a move to converge a few independent bodies in this space together. You have one place where the data that you should report is very clearly defined along with the electronic attributes. That's what not only in case Europe, we expect something happening from ICC the next year, and this will also motivate India because the green finance aspect is linked to ESG reporting. There are two sides of the same coin. This is exciting, and this is the area where corporate reporting, XBRL will play a bigger role. Rohit, the other message I want you to carry away from this ESG thing is the following. Every country where XBRL has been implemented is now looking at using XBRL for any new reporting.
There are countries where you would soon see IPO documents being filed in XBRL. Don't be surprised when you have to soon. Don't be surprised if user fund documents are filed in XBRL. The XBRL mandate is actually expanding gradually all over the world. I'm glad you raised the ESG thing, so I'm talking about it. The opportunity on account of this new filings will all come from XBRL, and that's where we are extremely well-placed, and IRIS CARBON is one product that can take advantage.
Thank you. That was a very detailed and very helpful answer. My follow-up question is on U.K. You mentioned there are 1,000 companies in the U.K. What is the XBRL filing status there in U.K.? Also, you mentioned in the last concall about HMRC, where we already have some customers, and we are seeing some progress. Could we speak about that as well?
All ROC filings in the U.K. happen with iXBR . All tax filings in the U.K. happen with iXBR . The new mandate is capital market filings also need to move to iXBRL. That's the new mandate. In the ROC filings, we still continue to retain a reasonable market share. We work with a partner who delivers customers to us, and we're not doing too badly there. That actually has grown, and we are now beginning to work with local partners to try and acquire customers for capital market filings as well.
That is a 1,000-customer market that is available there, and even that has to be done by next year. Am I right?
The filing has to start from January onwards, and we now have people on the ground working on it. On the ground as in working out India, but doing it.
Do we have a market share, rough market share there?
Zero. The mandate just came out. We actually are trying to sort of get started there. I think with the lockdown happening in the U.K. more than once, things have been a bit slow. We think the first customers will start signing up by about end of Q2 or Q3 this year or beginning of Q3 this year.
Okay. Far in the U.K., nobody has signed up with anyone yet.
Nobody has filed either.
Okay, great. Understood. That was helpful. My last question is, I was surprised to see us throw so much cash because I expected, given we are a growing SaaS company, to invest cash investment, how much will that be, and how do you see this going forward?
When you look at a lot of these SaaS companies in the U.S. and they're addressing markets of a different variety, and their approach to whole sales and marketing is very different. We work extensively with partners in different countries, especially because we can't get in front of customers. Compliance is a very serious business, where customers like to see your face before they actually sign up with you.
One of the ways in which we kept our sales and marketing costs under control is by leaving significant revenue share for our partners, and some of them through marketing platforms like we do from India. Our marketing spend has actually been kept under check. When you look at companies like Acquia, they are driven significantly by their marketing spend. They even acquire customers also because it's a mature markets, but our approach has been quite different. We work with partners.
Will that be the same going forward? As we saw you appoint two people in Europe, one in U.S., you see yourself appointing more and more people on the ground.
It'll be a blend.
Understood. Could we maybe in future in the presentation also share the partners we have in each of the geographies that we work with?
Sure. Sure, we can do that.
We can confirm?
We can do that, yes.
That'll be really helpful. Thanks. I'll get back into the queue.
Thank you.
I've already enjoyed your calls.
Yeah, we have a follow-up from the line of Manan Patel, please go ahead.
Can you hear me, sir?
Yeah, loud and clear.
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity again. I wanted to understand, this year our Collect revenue scaled down and a lot of receivables also came down. Collect is a receivables-heavy business. I wanted to understand what kind of receivable days are sustainable going forward.
If you look at numbers for this year, you'll see that our receivables are about 85 days. My target is to bring it down to 75 going forward. It'll take maybe a year or two, but I think that is certainly doable with the higher awareness coming from the Create segment and maybe further down the line, maybe another three, four years, it could be even much less.
Even if the Collect segment bounces back after the pandemic?
That's right.
Understood. Sir, my last question is with significant AI capabilities and softwares available which can read PDF, so can they disrupt our business in any way? I might not know more technologies, but I wanted to understand are there other things that can come up which can disrupt or read data directly from a PDF and file it with a regulator? Are there any risks like that which can obsolete our business?
In a world where man can send a man's craft to the moon, in a world where we can send Mars Rovers and monitor them from here, one can never rule out any possibility. Every company which gets into a certain space keeps adapting constantly to ensure that it has a growth story. I was watching a BBC series some years ago where they said that every company reinvents itself every 20 years. We are very mindful of that. We started as a company with myiris.com, with information portal. We said, let's go back into data standards. We metamorphosed, we transformed into a software company. We started with KPO, then we went into products. Companies that recognize and see the writing on the wall keep modifying it so that they stay relevant in the market, and I'm hoping that we do the same.
Understood, sir. Thanks a lot.
Thank you.
Anyone else who has any question can use the Raise Hands button, please. Anyone else apart from Gaurav who has a question can raise hand?
Gaurav, since you have got things in, how do you ask a question?
He can go ahead. He can go and ask the question before whoever has their hand up. Gaurav's saying is it, I need to unmute myself? One second.
Go to your chat box. Go back into the chat box.
I have unmuted your line, Gaurav. Go ahead. You need to unmute yourself, Gaurav, before you can ask your question.
Gaurav hasn't unmuted. Am I audible?
Yes, Gaurav. Yes, you are.
Yeah, this is Gaurav from Sapphire Capital. I wasn't connected to this call unfortunately due to GTD. Sorry for the delay. I missed the initial bit of the presentation, so pardon me if I'm repeating the question. I just want to know what is the stickiness of once you sign up with a customer, what's the stickiness of your business? Because it's a SaaS model, what's the stickiness of the business?
Unless I screw up royally or you come and offer it for free to a customer.
Yeah.
The stickiness is really high. If you see, we've only been growing the number of companies who are signing up with us. We haven't lost a company yet, touch wood, and I hope it stays that way. We've not had these SaaS offerings long enough to come up with data in terms of customer churn.
The big risk that we actually got around, I think it's a great question to ask, and I'll tell you why. ROC filings happen once a year, and it's quite possible that by the end of the following year, people forgot which software they actually used, which is a once-a-year filing. The need to stay abreast of the customer and stay in touch with the customer is very high. Fortunately, we've not lost customers. We've lost a few here and there, but nothing significant for us to worry about. The stickiness as of now is very high.
What's the cross-sell opportunities like once you sign up with a customer probably in the U.K. and the U.S.? What's the cross-sell opportunities like?
A great question. There are different kinds of customers. The ROC customers, the cross-sell opportunities are very different from the capital market customers. In the capital market situation, for example, there is something called MiFID II that has come up in Europe, which requires companies to look at investor relations very differently, where we see some opportunities. There are some cross-sell opportunities, and like the example I gave you. In the case of ROC, for example, in certain markets, when you combine ROC data with, for example, in India, with GST data, that can spur digitalization. There are some opportunities, and we are mindful of that. At the same time, for that to happen, certain other systems, certain other things in the ecosystem have actually got to fall in place.
What if you were to sell all your products to a particular customer in your country, like your products? What's the daily size you'll be able to generate on a SaaS revenue basis per customer point?
I have never done the calculation, therefore, I don't have an answer to the question offhand.
One final question. What's your competitive advantage looking out of India? Is there some competitive advantage usually all your competitors will be wanting a lot of companies?
Significant. Cost. Cost is a significant advantage. The fact that there's one super interesting example. We recently acquired a company in South America who wanted to do filing locally, who also do filing in the U.S. Carbon covers both possibilities, and these are the advantages we actually see. Do you need to, on one platform, the question somebody asked earlier, do you need to have a different product for a different type of filing? The answer is just file everything. Carbon can handle everything. People like to have one platform for everything.
That's it, bro. Thank you so much.
There might be a couple of questions in the chat box that I take in.
Sure. Yeah.
Shishir wants to ask a question about the resolution with the SME and the listing board why we have to pass a resolution again. In the last year, we had a resolution to pass ROC e-mediation. The reason we did not do it at that point in time is because we were changing the auditors. Our statutory auditor, by the end of this year, had to move on to a different statutory auditor. We basically said that we will never do it Ind AS . Let's give the statutory auditor time to settle down before we actually move. The auditor plays a very important role in terms of conversion of the accounts to Ind AS, which is now happening.
The resolution was valid for one year, which is the reason why we had to take a resolution again to get the permission from the directors, not from the shareholders. After that, there is still a process to be followed. The process includes submitting the documents to the stock exchange for their approval. That typically, I think, takes about a month or so. We've initiated the Ind AS conversion, working with the auditors right now. Once these things happen, we hope things then will come to a situation where we can migrate. That's Rishabh's question. The question from Rahul. I think the bulk of the customer actually came from the U.K., where I see a significant jump. South Africa, where I see a significant jump. We actually had jumped many different markets across the world. We've actually done well in South Africa.
We've done well in Europe. We've got a significant number of customers in the U.K. as well, a significant number of customers in India, also for GST, also for ROC. All in all around, there's been a significant improvement. The only market where the growth was still very modest, where we went from six customers to 15 customers was the U.S., where we are hopeful that we can take it to a much larger number. One second. The other question from Rahul, I'm reading it.
Understanding these are pay-per-use products, can you roughly quantify how much the relationship increases with increasing usage? Rahul, these are once-a-year usage. It's not that they use it every day. They use it once a year. The bulk of the growth in the case of our create business has actually been from Carbon and from GST more than from iDEAL. If you're basically saying, is Carbon the reason why it's increased significantly? The answer is yes. Those are the questions so far.
Yeah, Rohit had a question.
Yeah.
I think Rohit has a question.
Yeah. Thank you for the third opportunity today. I really appreciate it. My question is on R&D. You mentioned Workiva, and I did spend some time on Workiva initially directly. I noticed that they've moved, I think XBRL is probably one of the most basic things they provide, and they have moved on to a lot of other suite of softwares where they offer much more value-added services to the customers and thereby increasing stickiness and the yield per customer. How big is the product pipeline? You mentioned we hired a CTO from Accenture. Could you speak about the R&D and the product development pipeline going forward?
Just a small correction. We hired a CTO who used to be with Accenture, then started his own startup, which he then folded up the startup and joined us. He didn't come directly from Accenture, just so you know. My point was that he came from a C-plus at Accenture, therefore, we looked at good people in that company. That's number one. Number two, in terms of value-added products, just like others have a disclosure platform, we also have a disclosure platform, which we have not launched in a big way in Europe just yet. To do complicated products requires that you win the trust of the customer. Acquiring, that's the first step to win.
Once you have the trust of the customer, you can pretty much sell multiple things to them. It's also important to have freedom street. You can't sell complicated products, you can't sell labor place in India and on the phone. You can't sell disclosure platforms in India or on the phone. You need to have somebody on the ground. It's been a slow, arduous process. Maybe, Deepta, can you just answer the question about the disclosure platform?
Sure. On the apps side, you talked about shareholder.
Yeah
The one thing that we're doing is IRIS Carbon as a SaaS product, it has a basic disclosure management platform. Disclosure management essentially allows people to collaborate and create reports. Not just XBRL items, if I can call it that. That disclosure management platform is being used, but in a limited way at this point in time. One of the big focus areas is actually getting a comprehensive disclosure management platform in. That's one of our targets for this year, which will also mean that if we are able to upsell the disclosure management platform to our existing customer base, IRIS Carbon will also start getting used on a more even basis, not only during filing time, basically. That's one, let me call it, big area of focus. There is also a lot of other projects which are on in the area of automation.
Automation, I think somebody asked about the complexities of XBRL and would there be ways that people can hide it, and that's something that we ourselves are working towards to bring in more automation to make it easier and simpler on the margin. The third is, of course, working across consuming different kinds of formats, basically. It's not only XBRL as an output, but other output formats that we see being required and other input formats. There's a couple of R&D pieces, frontier R&D pieces going on apart from a whole range of product enhancements.
Just to answer your question about where you will get the presentation, it will be posted on our website and also filed with the Bombay Stock Exchange. What's fascinating for me is that we have 62 participants on this call, and not long ago, our market cap was not INR 60 crores. I'm grateful to every one of you for being on the call, and it puts things into perspective in some ways. Sorry, Rohit, did I interrupt you? Rohit, did you have a question? Gaurav Singh wants to ask you, did you, Gaurav?
Yeah.
Go ahead, Gaurav.
Thank you so much for giving me another opportunity. Just wanted to know since you're into the SaaS business, there's a fixed cost that you're working with, basically above and above everything, which everything sort of rolls down to the bottom line. Since you've not taken any salaries for the past few years, once you onboard all of that, what's the fixed cost that you're working with on that front?
Oh, it's fully provided for. Gaurav, the fact that I've not taken a salary doesn't mean it's not provided for. It's provided for in the books. It's expense every year. I'm just not taking the money from a cash flow point of view. It has impact on cash flow.
Yeah.
Not the expenses of the company. It's fully provided for.
Okay. One final question, since you've sort of accrued a lot of cash this year, what's your stated growth target? I saw the compliance concern. Okay, there's some bit of the fact that the on-premise business or the non-SaaS business was quite heavy. The SaaS business didn't show up as much on the revenue side, right? The total revenue sort of was different in the limited capacity. Now that SaaS is probably 70% of your overall top line, it will show up now in the, of course, coming future. What's your stated growth target with the cash that you have and the marketing dollars that you might spend towards achieving that?
Small correction. When I say 70% recurring revenues, it has two components to it. It has a SaaS component to it, and it also has a component that's not SaaS, which is also recurring. There are multiple kinds of recurring revenues. Significant portion is SaaS, that's a fact, number one. Number two, as far as now that we are generating cash, small companies can grow at any percentage you talk about. Certainly meaningless to talk about percentage when you talk about small companies. I think our focus going forward will be the U.S. market in a big way and the EU market in a big way. Also, we are at the mercy of IRDA when it comes to their priorities from the point of view of launching an XBRL or disclosure platform. That we cannot really predict.
We see opportunities in America, we see opportunities in Europe, and we see opportunities in a couple of other places, which we want to focus on going forward. Rahul, you're talking about which annual report? Annual report of last year perhaps, or two years ago? I don't know which annual report you're talking about, Rahul. FY 2020 annual report has 1,200 customers. I'm not sure what he says there. Okay. FY 2020 had 1,200 customers. How did it suddenly go to 6,059? Excellent question. When we contract with customers, for example. Let's say, for example, in Europe, we have several partners. The partners contract with customers, and over the last one year, we've actually started getting into tripartite agreement with the customers. The customers are as much our customers as our partners. For example, South Africa.
The big jump has actually come from South Africa. South Africa, we have a partner called XDS, who we've been partners with for a number of years. While there are certain customers who XDS is a gateway to us, we've also brought customers who we route through XDS to our system. We've now started recognizing every one of them as customers and not just our partners. That is the reason why you will see a significant jump. In addition to this, we've also added customers of almost about l ike for like, if you actually compare, we've added about 700, 800 customers here.
When you said 1,200 in the premium annual report, that 1,200 has to be seen in the context of 6,095 minus 1,800. That's a like for like comparison. Thank you all who want to hear. Sir Rohit, just one last question, if you kindly may. Please. I'm not very clear still on the pricing model in the GST product that we have. Could you explain that? It depends on number of GSTINs that the company has. It depends on number of invoices the company needs to file. It depends on the complexity of the filing. It depends on how often going to create invoices. We have a fairly detailed model that we use into which we plug in all the data of a company, and out comes a certain price. Finally, after we copy the price, the customer will still negotiate it downward and lower it.
Okay, thank you. That was helpful.
Okay. Swamy, right now there are no other participants in the queue. Okay. Closing comments, please.
Sure. I want to thank every one of you for participating in this. Rohit, are you still there?
Yes, sir.
I have a question for you now.
Yeah, please.
I recently had an exchange with two set of investors, and I am left bemused. One investor who came into the company at a price of 12, said, "Great company. You give him 60 back." Another investor who bought at 79 said, "Class up. As a promoter, as a CEO of the company, I'm focused only on fundamentals. I'm mindful of the price. I see what the price is, but I'm mindful of the fundamentals. How do I treat investor yourself? Do I say, "Sir," or do I say, "Listen, you lost money because of bad treatment." Do I basically say, "You know what? I'll just focus on fundamentals." What do I do, Rohit?
Sir, I can speak only for the way I think. I generally look at companies that are well run for a period of four to five years, at least, as a holding period. The short term can never be predicted. You can't predict the short-term movements of prices because you can't predict the behavior and the emotions of investors. You can, as you say, focus on the long-term fundamentals of the company. As long as you're doing right over a five, seven year horizon, that's the best thing that can happen for all shareholders, in my opinion.
My answer to my shareholder, say that I focus only on fundamentals. Is that the correct answer?
I focus on growing this company for the next five to seven years or 10 years. That's what I would think is the correct answer.
That's what I do. I do nothing but. Even at the company internally, apart from my radio account. At the company internally, we basically focus on fundamentals. We are mindful of the stock price, we are mindful of returns to shareholders, but at the same time, our focus is only on improving company fundamentals.
That's the answer I'd love to hear from any company investor, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. Balu, any comments before we close?
No, except we would like to express our gratitude for having come for this investor call and listen patiently to what we have to say and ask questions. That's very meaningful discussion.
Yeah. Again, last but certainly not the least, I really thank every one of you for spending as much time as you have. Almost 93 minutes since we started the call. I want, Diwakar, that our calls go very long and that we get more people than we see in many, many larger companies. I think that our experience in the market may either get a few more SaaS companies coming in or not coming in. Basically, I'm grateful that we went public when we did. Many people have had comments about how small we were. We had no option but to go public at that point in time because our shareholder had wanted it at that point in time.
We're glad that we did it, and the money that we raised, we've used it well to grow to where we are today, and that's where we are. I'm grateful to you for your participation here. Feel free to ask any questions. I'm fairly active on Twitter, though I don't talk about company pricing and other stuff on Twitter. I talk about the company broadly in terms of announcements that we make. We also make filings on time to the Bombay Stock Exchange when something happens, something material happens. Once again, thank you very much. Diwakar, do you want to close it?
No, that's fine, Swamy. Thank you.