Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Protean eGovernance Technologies Limited Q4 and FY 2025 Earnings Conference Call hosted by Go India Advisors. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during this conference, please signal an operator by pressing star and then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Pushpa Mani, Head, Investor Relations and VP. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.
Thanks, Dorwin. Good afternoon, everyone. I welcome you all to the Quarter Four and FY 2025 results discussion. You must have received the results and the investor presentation of the company, which is available on BSE and NSE, as well as on the company's website. As usual, we will start the forum with the opening remarks by our Managing Director and CFO, and then we will open the floor for the question-and-answer session. If any of your questions remain unanswered, you may reach out to us afterwards. The management on today's call would be represented by Mr. Suresh Sethi, MD and CEO; Mr. V. Easwaran, COO; Mr. Sandeep Mantri, CFO; and myself, Pushpa Mani, Head, IR. Before we begin, I would like to mention that some of the statements in today's discussion may be forward-looking in nature, and we believe that the expectations contained in these statements are reasonable.
However, these statements involve a number of risks and uncertainties that may lead to different results. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you, Pushpa. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for joining us today. I'll do a quick summary of the year gone by. Clearly, we have been on a journey of building strategic technical capability this year in the space of open-source technologies and establishing centers of excellence around emerging tech. FY 2025 has clearly been the defining area here for us in terms of technological maturity. We have secured several mission-critical operation-scale mandates during the course of the year while competing against leading industry players. These mandates include the strengthening of the central KYC infrastructure of the nation under the CERSAI mandate of CKYCRR 2.0. We've got the mandate for expanding the central Agri Stack, and at the same time, in the health sector, we are supporting the Ayushman Bharat Digital mission in digitizing Maharashtra's Aapla Dawakhana Clinics.
As we continue to innovate and push boundaries, we are equally proud to consolidate our position as a thought leader in the digital public infrastructure space. Our journey this year has been marked by significant milestones for conceptualizing DPI Box as an approach to its actual manifestation in the form of impactful solutions. This framework has been a game-changer, enabling us to rapidly deploy and scale digital public infrastructure efficiently. The modular approach has allowed us to work with various countries on social impact projects, demonstrating our ability to adapt and scale our solutions to meet diverse needs. By leveraging this framework, we've been able to drive meaningful impact with our first-of-its-kind education DPI in Morocco and our recent health sector win in Ethiopia.
We are happy to share that we have further reinforced our commitment to take the India stack global by establishing Protean International, a 100% subsidiary based in DMCC UAE, to manage our international operations. Aligned with India's DPI visionary framework, which is built on open standards and protocols, we continue to contribute to ODE's Open Digital Ecosystems across e-commerce, transport and mobility, agriculture, education and skilling, health, and sustainability. One of our critical interventions this year has also been in the space of pension and social security. This was the successful rollout of UPS, the Unified Pension Scheme, a landmark pension reform designed to provide long-term financial security and inclusive social protection for central government employees. As the primary central record-keeping agency in the country, we were entrusted with the design, development, and deployment of this mission-critical initiative.
The company successfully delivered a robust, fully compliant platform in record time, demonstrating technical excellence and commitment. Another key initiative in the pension space this year has been the introduction of NPS Vatsalya, a first-of-its-kind pension scheme allowing individuals to join the NPS system from infancy, thereby offering an extending vested period and encouraging early financial discipline. Since its launch, the scheme has seen very strong traction, with over 100,000 accounts being opened in the last six months. Protean holds a dominant market share of nearly 75% in this category. Overall, we continue to maintain a dominant position in the pension services segment with the 97% market share. We delivered strong growth of 12% in FY 2025, onboarding 13 crore new subscribers and adding more than 2,500 corporates to the NPS ecosystem. Both NPS and APY continue to scale, and we have recently crossed 82 million cumulative subscribers.
In our Tax Services Business, while revenue declined due to an industry-wide slowdown in PAN issuance, this was largely due to the election cycle and the delayed rollout, therefore, of new government schemes. We have made significant gains in market share, which increased by nearly 5%, closing at 56.6% in FY 2025. During the year, we issued approximately 4.4 crore PAN cards, and out of these, 53% were processed via a paperless mode. Given that PAN penetration in the country is still below 40%, and considering its increasing importance for financial inclusion and welfare access, we believe this segment holds meaningful long-term growth potential. The Digital India Movement continues to gain momentum, serving as a cornerstone of the country's digital economy. Protean is strategically investing in several next-gen value-added solutions like eSign Pro, a comprehensive digital documentation suite, and Rise with Protean, a multi-sectoral API marketplace.
All these solutions will enable seamless onboarding into financial systems, welfare programs, and pension, driving mass-scale inclusion across India. We also took deliberate steps this year to bring our brand closer to the people. We were delighted to welcome Pankaj Tripathi as the face of Protean, who is himself an icon of trust, humility, and authenticity. Our Digital-First, Apni Kahani Ka Hero Campaign, featured multiple video assets. It garnered over 35 million views and reached more than 15 million users across B2B, B2C, and B2G audiences. While Sandeep will walk you through our financial details, I'm pleased to share that our revenue for FY 2025 stood at INR 841 crore and PAT at INR 92 crore. I'm also glad to report that we have received INR 36 crore, which have been long-pending dues towards storage charges from the Department of Tax, the Income Tax Department.
This reinforces the continued trust and confidence placed in us by the department in managing this population-scale mandate for the last 22 years. With that, I will hand you over to Sandeep. Thank you.
Thank you, Suresh. Good afternoon, everyone. As Suresh highlighted, the Digital India journey is a powerful example of how technology can enable inclusive, efficient, and citizen-centric governance, and Protean has been a core part of this story, from Taxation to Pension to Social Security, Welfare, and Digital Identity. Today, we are extending the foundation across newer sectors such as e-Commerce, Mobility, Health, Education, Skilling, Agriculture, and Sustainability. Our groundbreaking DPI in a Box solution is a shining example of how technology expertise can govern the citizens and govern the country in our space. Our interoperable platform-led approach is helping build the digital world of tomorrow, designed to improve discoverability, transferability, and service delivery at scale. Let me touch broadly on the financials for the year.
We have reported a consolidated revenue from operation at INR 841 crore in FY 2025 versus INR 882 crore in FY 2024, which is a decline of 5% YoY mainly due to a decline in our tax revenue because of the market share market shrinkage, while we have gained our market share significantly by 500 basis points. Our Identity Service revenue also declined by 13%, and our Pension Services revenue, however, grew robustly by 12%, and other businesses also saw a 9.5% increase, showcasing a diversified momentum. EBITDA for the year stood at INR 149 crore in FY 2025 versus INR 157 crore in FY 2024, a decline of 5% YoY largely due to an increase in other expenses like brand promotion, strategic investment, RFP-led businesses, and accelerated intangible assets depreciation. However, improved collection, which is what Suresh talked about, led to provision reversion, partially mitigating this decline in EBITDA.
PAT for this year stood at INR 92 million in FY 2025, a decline of 5% over FY 2024. We delivered an EPS of INR 22.83 for the year, and the board has recommended a final dividend of INR 10 per share, representing a 100% payout on face value and approximately 40% payout on PAT, reflecting our commitment to sharing profit with shareholders. We continue to maintain our debt-free status and are looking to accelerate our internal cost lever at a sustainable rate. Our asset-light model, coupled with strong cash flow, has resulted in a cash-equivalent and marketable security balance of more than INR 8 billion as of March 31, 2025. We are also pleased to announce an update regarding our outstanding receivable from the Income Tax Department for storage services.
Despite provisioning for these long-pending dues in our books as per our expected credit loss provisioning policy, we had consistently maintained that this is a sovereign debt and would be realized. We are delighted to confirm that we have recently received INR 36,000,000 out of the money received. We have reversed INR 21,000,000 of expected credit loss taken in earlier quarters, and we have set off another INR 15,000,000 toward receivable lying in our books, eliminating the need for any further provisioning for this item. To simplify the structure and to execute operation in a cost-efficient manner, we have demerged a significant portion of our 100% subsidiary, which is Protean Infosys Services Limited, to the parent company. We have proposed a demerger scheme to the shareholder and board.
Key projects in this year include CERSAI mandate for strengthening the Central KYC Stakes, extended scope of Central Agri Stack, and ABDM-led digitization project of Aapla Dawakhana Clinic across Maharashtra. These key wins not only underscore our expertise but also promise a long-term revenue visibility and a growth momentum. Operationally, we have made significant progress across our annuity-led businesses, including eSign Pro and Protean Rise, building predictable and recurring revenue streams for the future. Moving forward, our strategic priorities, as discussed by Suresh, are focused on a few key areas. These are monetizing new products, new digital products, and building upon RFP-led businesses, enhancing our operational efficiencies through AI-driven process transformation and cost control, consolidating our leadership in India's digital public infrastructure, DPI space, while expanding this India's digital stack globally. With that, I would open the floor for a question and answer session. Thank you for your patience.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchstone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to please use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now wait for a moment while the questions come in. The first question is from the line of Prakash Kapadia with Spark PMS. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. A couple of questions from my end. On the revenue side, just wanted to delve deeper. We've now had an installed base of around 55 crore plus PAN cards in the system. In the near term, till PAN 2 project starts, what kind of addition of PAN card is possible? By when do you think this PAN 2 project will go live? I think two days ago on the call, you had alluded you were going to check what could be the reason of we not moving forward. Any updates on that? On the PAN 2, is there a scope of work which is now defined? What I'm trying to understand is, is there a risk of vendor consolidation? Because there are processes which you had highlighted in terms of the PAN card issuance.
Would we continue to do the process and scope of work which we are currently doing, or will there be a vendor consolidation? Any clarity on that will help. Secondly, any updates on the global tenders in terms of finalization or closure, if you could highlight? Thirdly, on the NPS business, from a long-term perspective, is there any risk to growth, given that most of the IT returns are now being filed in the new regime? Do you see any structural slowdown or longer-term growth tapering off on the NPS side of the business? Those were my questions on the revenue side, please.
Thank you, Prakash. Thanks for your question. I will start with first your reference to potential in the PAN business itself. While you're right that around 55 crore Indians have a PAN card, PAN, as we've always been discussing, is not a saturation ID. Aadhaar today is given to every child at birth, but PAN usually is taken up when you are either entering the workforce or you're opening your first bank account. Likewise, today, we are also seeing the propensity of people getting a PAN card when they are availing government benefit schemes. 55 crore means it is still less than 40% of the country which has a PAN card. Every year, there is addition to the working population. New schemes are getting announced.
Historically speaking, at least for the last three or four years, every year, there have been six to seven crore new PAN cards getting issued, and we have not seen any slowdown in that. Considering that people will keep coming into the working space, new schemes will come, we expect this momentum to continue and this business to build. Also, secondly, as we mentioned, this year was a good year for us in further consolidating our market share. We moved our market share by gaining 5 percentage points up to 56.6%, which still means there is headroom for us to further improve our market share. For us, we see this as a business which has good momentum overall in terms of issuance and our ability to secure more business down the line by keeping at what we are doing well currently.
Coming to your second question with regard to PAN 2.0, as I think we discussed earlier also, the scope of PAN 2.0 is completely separate from the mandate we received from ITD in 2003, which was for processing and issuance of PAN cards. As you are aware, there is a complete process before a PAN card gets issued. There is a part of the work where the applicant provides their information while applying for the PAN card. They provide their identity document. All this information that we collate from the applicant is passed on to the IT department in a secure manner by us. We are doing the last-mile information and ID and data collection on behalf of the PAN applicant and providing it to the IT department. The IT department then has their system in which they do the allotment of the PAN number.
Once they have allotted the number, they give us the number, we print the PAN card, and we again distribute it back to the PAN applicant. Now, the entire PAN 2.0 RFP, the scope of that is around doing a technological revamp of ITD systems which are today used for doing the allotment of the PAN number. The mandate which we have in terms of processing of PAN applicants' information and sharing the data with ITD is not part of this RFP. Therefore, the two are separate from a scope of work perspective. Secondly, to your question, would there be any consolidation of scope? My answer would be no because this RFP and its scope is already defined. The mandate we have from the ITD department is different and continues to be there. The two will be completely separate.
Coming to global tenders, as we had mentioned, that currently, we are happy to report that we were finally able to open our account in the international business. We were able to get two mandates, one in the country of Morocco, where we worked on the DPI Box, education DPI. The second is we were awarded a health initiative in the country of Ethiopia. Other than that, we are currently engaged with almost 20-plus countries between Africa, Southeast Asia, and Middle East. I would say almost four or five mandates have advanced stage of discussion, but we continue to be engaged on these multiple mandates in terms of global tenders. Your last question was with regard to the NPS business. Now, the CRA business, as we clearly are glad to report that we have a 97% market share. This is a licensed business.
Each of the central record-keeping agencies today hold a license. Just like any other bank license, we have a license from PFRDA to run this business. As far as pension penetration is concerned, again, we all know that our pension penetration in our country is a bare 6% versus some of the developed countries where you're talking about numbers like 70-75%. We again see a huge headroom for pension penetration. Even schemes like Atal Pension Yojana, which are clearly meant for a part of the society which is economically weaker sections, which are basically the area where we have Jan Dhan accounts. Today, we have almost INR 5.5 billion plus Jan Dhan accounts, and there are only INR 500 million or INR 550 million odd Atal Pension Yojana subscribers. There's a huge 10 times headroom over there.
We clearly see in the pension business there's a large headroom for us to grow that business.
Understood. On the global tender which you just mentioned, Suresh, on Morocco and Ethiopia, any revenue size or quantification you could give, and when would revenue start from recognition? How long is the project or any size, if you could give, that would be helpful.
Generally, we do not do project size, but I will give you a general sense that when we are looking at the international projects, there are at least some of the DPI-related projects that are in the form of RFPs. These could be anywhere from three to five years in terms of the overall mandate, which means the first year or so is taken to develop the technology and deploy it, and the remaining years then form a part of an AMC. Any mandate will have a payment structure where 40%-60% of the payment comes after one, one and a half years, and the remaining comes staggered over the remaining period in the form of equitable AMC charges.
The projects, again, in these countries, because we are looking at Africa and the larger part of the African subcontinent, we've seen mandates depending on the size of the country and the DPI we are working on. These could actually have a wide range from almost $1 million-$10 million. The rest of the equation, as I mentioned to you earlier, goes along the lines of the payment structure as I spoke.
Thanks. Thanks a lot, Suresh, for the answers. I'll join back the queue if I have more questions. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, in order that the management is able to address questions from all participants in the queue, you are requested to please restrict yourselves to two questions per person. We have our next question from the line of Dhruv Shah from Dalal & Br oacha. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity, sir. My question is regarding your identity services business. If I look at your slide number 15, in terms of volume, except for eKYC, the rest of the segments are seeing growth in terms of volume. However, if we look at the revenue, there is a sharp dip of 25%. This is the same case for the full year as well. On slide number 26 also, your full year volumes are increasing in most of the segments, but the revenue is seeing a dip. Is there any pricing pressure in one of these segments, or what is the scenario over there?
Yeah. So Dhruv, thanks for the question. You are absolutely right. We've seen growth across all the leading business drivers, which means the number of eSigns or the number of eKYCs and so on. While there has been growth overall, there has been, in certain cases, margin pressure because naturally, it's at a foundational level. Over here, you are competing in a market where if you get large-scale commitments on volumes, it's slab-based pricing. At times, therefore, you find that the overall margin profile of the business might, again, become lower. That has been the reason for the decline in revenue. In order to not just mitigate this, but also to vertically integrate the digital identity business, we have therefore moved into providing more value-added services.
Because at the base of the foundation of the identity business is the basic APIs for authentication, for KYC, for eSign. If you want to build complete workflow management systems of digital signing, digital stamping, that is where we are building the suite of services on top. This also adds more value-added and therefore commands their own differentiation because of how you build the consumer interfaces, the workflow processes, and so on. That has been our strategy to, one, expand into a new line of business, which is more entity-driven and like a SaaS sort of business, and at the same time, mitigate some of the price compressions that we see at the foundation level of the services.
I understand that, sir. Do you see any green shoots of recovery in terms of prices, or are these prices stabilizing, or will they continue to, or do you expect the price war to continue going forward as well?
I think this will be a competitive space, Dhruv. It will definitely be a competitive space. Currently, in some of these areas, we are either a leading player amongst the top four or five. In areas like eSign, we have a 70% market share. We differentiate based on the resilience of our offering because ultimately, at the foundational level, you want resilience, you want complete uptime and all. That is what we differentiate with today. Yes, it is at a level where it is, to an extent, commoditized because when you look at value-added feature functionality, that is not there at the base of the pyramid when you look at the foundational DPIs.
We will continue to strengthen our technology stack, keep ensuring that we are ahead of the curve in the resilience and uptime of our services and the trust that our company's name carries with both the private and the government sector entities. I think that is where we are at this stage.
Right. My second question was regarding your other expenses. There has been a sharp increase of over 100% in your other expenses. In the interview on CNBC, you mentioned there is no one-off. Is this a steady state, or will we see a similar trajectory as a percentage of sales going forward also for other expenses? The same question for processing charge as well. Processing charge is also down as a percentage of sales. It used to be around 40%. It is now down to 36, 36.5%. Will this continue going forward?
Sure, Dhruv. I'll just ask Sandeep to go into more details over here. Please, Sandeep.
Yeah. Dhruv, to answer your second question on processing charges, this is going to remain in the same range because we have implemented many automation projects last year, which has resulted in a significant saving in terms of delivering the revenue. Therefore, the processing charges. Then second was we are delivering more and more online payments. That is also resulting in some savings. All put together, I think processing charges will remain at these levels only. To answer your second question on other expenses, in this quarter, particularly in this quarter, there were certain expenses which were there because of the brand building exercise we carried out with Pankaj Tripathi. There is a significant spend on account of that. Secondly, there was an accelerated amortization on some of the intangible assets we were building.
We thought if the cash flows are not in short term, so on a conservative side, we have decided to impair some of those intangibles. Therefore, there was a charge because of that. The third one was RFP-related expenses, which are part of system support and maintenance expenses, which has also increased because of some of the RFP revenues booked in this quarter. Primarily, these are a few reasons that is why we have seen an increase in our other expenses. Other than that, if you see in our tech courses, system support and maintenance, there is a slight increase from INR 106 crore to INR 122 crore on a yearly basis, which is primarily because of, one, inflation. Second, we are building a strong tech recipient organization. There are inevitable costs because of that.
Those are the reasons why some of those costs have gone up. Having said that, what will be our quarterly run rate? Some of those will be spread over a year. Some of those will be only a thing of this time, but will come in some other form like depreciation or so. Therefore, these are the rates for the quarter. I hope this answers your question.
Yeah. Thank you so much for your answer. I'll join back the queue.
Thanks, Dhruv. Thanks.
Thank you. Our next question is from the line of Rohan M with Equirus Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, good afternoon, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, I want to understand if you can elaborate on the revenue opportunity from the DPI in a Box that we're talking about.
Rohan, as I said, project-wise, we don't give a breakup. I'll tell you the structure of DPI in a Box because, as you see, in India, we've built very large population-scale DPIs, whether it was Aadhaar or UPI as a payment system or data exchange that we are doing, the consent management account aggregator, and now the DPDP Act. These are basic fundamental building blocks. Different countries are at different stages of their national or digital identity being there. Similarly, they want payment systems. They want agriculture systems where they want to exchange agri data.
DPI in a Box actually is a concept where we are saying if we can bring all these modular pieces together and do a quick deployment rather than taking two to three years to do it, if you can do the deployment in three to four months using existing digital public goods and putting them together and deploying the solution in multiple sectors. That has been the approach which we have worked out, and with various partners, this work has been done. Morocco became a first-of-its-kind experiment to deploy a DPI in a Box for enabling the education ecosystem. This is for teacher learning and assessment.
Underlying, that is what we are seeing the promise of this because as you deal with multiple countries with different needs and requirements, because one shoe fit all does not work, DPI in a box becomes a good sort of flexible modular solution where you are able to build and deploy quickly at a POC basis and then create impact by scaling it up. That is the underlying approach that we are taking. Project-wise, as I earlier mentioned to Prakash, most of the global businesses we are seeing, depending on the size scale of the country, these projects are ranging from anywhere from $1 million-$10 million. I know it is a huge range, but yeah, that is the sort of projects they are, and mostly they are in the line of RFPs because they are government-driven initiatives.
Sure. Sir, on the CERSAI project, will you start booking revenues on that in FY 2026, and which quarter will that start from? Typically, in these RFP-linked projects, what kind of an EBITDA margin can we expect?
To answer your first question, yes, CERSAI, the eKYC RR project, we will start booking revenue from this year. It will be in Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4, all the quarters, I guess. Margin information, I think we have talked in the past also. We do not divulge margin on a project-level basis, but.
On the Goldpacks and this category of.
Goldpacks, I'm telling you, Goldpacks basis, these are very high, I mean, highly competitive market. Margin will be similar to what we deliver as of today.
Sure. Sir, lastly, when we have been talking about on the PAN 2.0, that the distribution leg of business is not part of the current RFP. If I refer to the notice or the tender that government has released in August 2024, it mentions that presently, the receipt verification, digitization of applications, printing and display of PAN cards, and storage of physical as well as scanned PAN applications are outsourced to PAN service providers. The PAN 2.0 project aims to consolidate end-to-end PAN servicing, starting from online receipt verification, deduping, processing allotment, and things. From this, I get a sense that the entire end-to-end process would be consolidated, but we have been indicating that this will be a separate part. What gives us confidence in saying that the distribution will be a separate activity?
Rohan, the confidence comes from the fact that India's DPIs have always been deployed with an inclusive mind frame, right? When we got this mandate in 2003, the whole underlying idea was that every citizen should have the opportunity to be able to apply for a PAN card. That is exactly what the country did with Aadhaar enrollment centers that were set up, or when you talk about telecom and access to mobile services. Today, if you look at it, almost 70% of the people are applying for the PAN card through an assisted mode, which means they are going to an agent. They are submitting their KYC documentation. Last year alone, I can share with you from our data, there were 16 types of IDs which were presented by the applicants. Out of them, one was Aadhaar.
Right now, when we look at PAN 2.0, you are absolutely right. It's consolidating or building, first of all, the tech stack, which today ITD runs. That tech stack will also have a portal on which you can directly apply for the PAN card. The fact that today, the citizens of the country are taking assistance in applying, and 70% of the citizens are doing it, that is something that service model will go completely by where the citizen is able to get the service. I will also further add to you that today, already, there is direct application capability provided both by ITD and by the two other entities, which are Protean and UTI. The digital opportunity to apply directly exists even as we speak today, but the choice of the citizen is clearly more tilted towards going through an assisted model.
That is the reason we are saying that these things do not change overnight. We are talking about a very vast digital public infrastructure, and we are talking about a foundational ID. Tomorrow, you cannot have a scenario where you tell the citizens you no longer can apply if you do not need help.
Sure. Okay, sir. Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you are requested to please restrict yourselves to two questions only. You may rejoin the queue if you have follow-up questions. The next question is from Ashish Parekh from Emkay Investment Managers Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thank you, sir, for the opportunity. My first question is regarding the storage charges. Now, how much of storage charges is being booked as a provision? I mean, how much amount is left from the ITD to be received? Secondly, if you can speak on the new business. We want to push our mix to 25%. What new business should we focus on, or what shows the revenue to be 25% in the near future? Thank you.
Yeah. To answer your first question, Ashish, on the storage charges, we have no additional provision to be made because we have collected the money from the department, and there is no future provisioning required as far as storage charges are concerned. On the second question of new business, I would request Suresh to put a light on some of those new businesses like eSign Pro and Rise with Protean.
Ashish, basically, new businesses, as I mentioned, there is a strong focus on extending our foundational ID business where we are building value-added services in the form of eSign Pro and Rise with Protean, which we spoke about earlier, which is a multi-sector marketplace for API. Here we are looking at a lot of focus in the BFSI sector for digital onboarding, lending, other services coming through being enabled with this stack. It will largely be a B2B annuity business. A clear focus for us is because we see a strong agency because today, we are one of the leaders in the country at the foundational identity level. The same customers who are today using our stack for doing an eSign or an eKYC or an eAuthorization can benefit from the productization we have done on top of this stack. That is one core business for us.
The other areas we are clearly getting into is in the space of open digital ecosystems. We have certain wins as we called out, whether it is on the Agri stack, the health, ONDC is another area in which we participate strongly by actually powering the entire ONDC ecosystem and then also building the other aspects of it in the lines of demand and supply applications. RFPs is another area where we are putting a lot of focus. You would have heard us talk about the recent wins we've had, and we continue to make sure that we have a very strong focus team which is working on keeping a healthy RFP pipeline and working on large-scale turnkey projects. Other than that would be the international business where we are, we've opened our, in a way, opened our account.
As I mentioned earlier, we have also set up our international subsidiary now, which was a means to say, "Let's get more structure and focus around international operations." We hope to keep on aggressively pursuing that business. There is the cloud and infosec business in which, again, we are making some headway. These are the areas which we see. As we have been mentioning earlier, the idea would be to diversify so that from a concentration on our core businesses on tax, pension, and identity, we have a more diversified portfolio, say, of a 75-25, which should happen in the next couple of years.
Okay. Thank you. Sir, just a follow-up question on the storage charges. My question was, how much of money is left to be, I mean, to be received yet? And against that, how much of provision is already booked?
No, sir. Right now, in books, we have collected whatever was supposed to be collected on account of storage charges, but still, we have a few years to be billed to income tax, which we'll have to assess. Right now, we can't disclose that number, but it is also a significant number.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. Right now, nothing is there in the books which is yet to be collected. We have collected everything. No further provisioning, no outstanding as far as the position today as of today concerns. We will bill for a few years in the time to come in the course of time.
Thank you. The next question is from Darshil Pandya with Finterest Capital. Please go ahead.
Hello. How are you doing, sir?
Yeah.
Sir, just one question from my side. Sir, just wanted to understand if you can clarify whether the nature of the services with regards to PAN 2.0, sir, post-project completion, would it be the same as what our business is currently? Or this will be managed exclusively by the agency that will be awarded this contract?
Darshan, as I mentioned earlier, these are two separate mandates, right? We had a mandate in 2003, which we continue to service, and we will continue to service going forward as we speak, and which is where we are given the task of processing and issuance of the PAN card.
This will continue as usual?
I mean, as we speak, there is no change to that because PAN 2.0 does not cover this mandate. It's a separate mandate completely, right? And the PAN 2.0, as I said, is a tech revamp of the core IT system, which we were never managing before also. It was always managed by ITD.
Okay.
Darshil, does that answer your question?
Or do you want me to add anything more?
No, sir. Sir, just wanted to understand since this was around INR 1,400 crore of orders that we were expecting, and since we are not getting it, I am still not able to understand how is it going to affect us because looking at what market conditions are there right now with regards to our stock, what is something that is being discounted?
No, sir, Darshan, that's where I'm saying that there was naturally ambiguity because it's PAN 2.0, and there was the understanding that it's the same mandate now getting a different shape. Even when we applied for it, it was going to be incremental business for us like we apply for other RFPs. The mandate we have from ITD continues. I mean, we have that mandate still with us, and that does not change.
Okay. We will have more clarity once we get some clarity from the income tax department with regards to this RFP selection that we have.
For the RFP, as we mentioned, we've written to the department to seek more clarification because, as you know, there is a pre-qualification stage, there's qualification, and then price discovery. You've seen the results on the GEM CPP portal. At the qualification stage, two have been given not the approval to go ahead, and one entity has made it to the pricing discovery stage. We have requested the IT department to give us a clarification behind what went into the decision. That is where we are currently.
Okay. Got it. We'll wait for your clarification, sir. Thank you so much.
Sure. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pratham Kankariya from Quantum AMC Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Hello. Good evening, sir. How are you doing?
No, your.
Pratham, your voice is very muted. You can come closer to the mic.
Yeah, is this good now?
Yeah.
Just like a follow-up on the participant before, you explained that for the PAN, most of the new PAN card issuance happened via assisted mode where at least 16 documents are required. As far as I could remember, when I got my PAN, it was just Aadhaar, and I had to use some OTP for verification. We have seen how people have adopted to the UPI, and we cannot bank on people trying to go for assisted mode to go for the PAN. How do you see this situation going ahead?
Pratham, again, I am saying this is more data as we have it today, right? Aadhaar has been around for some time, and today, definitely, people use Aadhaar. Even within Aadhaar, people are actually going to the agent who, for example, do their biometric, right? When you have to use your thumbprint to do your KYC, you are doing it at an agent point. Similarly, there is an assisted mode using OTP that is, again, at an agent point. A lot of Aadhaar-enabled KYC today also is being done through an agent. It is not that people are doing it themselves. I am just sharing with you the factual data on the ground. Aadhaar is, as we know, 99% penetration.
People, whoever are using Aadhaar, we again see a dominant split over there also still taking the support of an agent to be able to do the application.
Just one thing that for future PAN revenue, that what we are banking on, that people will still go for the assisted mode. Just need some clarity on that thing.
Pratham, I'm adding two parts to it. Let me say, we have a national distribution network where we provide PAN as one service. Other than that, we have a host of other services, multi-products running on the same distribution. PAN is one line of business for us. As earlier also said, if people's preferences start moving to different areas, there will be still more and enough opportunity to build other lines of business through the distribution. We've clearly seen large-scale distribution models working very well in the country with new opportunities coming. As you're aware, in this budget, it was announced that we will be issuing INR 6 crore Bhu Aadhaar IDs to farmers for the farmer ID, right? That, again, needs a distribution on the ground to enroll the farmer and give them a Bhu Aadhaar card.
These are areas in which we are expanding and looking at other areas in the DPI space where the same distribution can be purposed to provide other opportunities. All I am saying at this stage is that naturally, there has been, first of all, a very strong or a close association of PAN 2.0 with the mandate we have. Whereas very clearly, these are two separate mandates. The propensity of the citizen to move from an assisted mode to doing things directly, it is always there with or without PAN 2.0. Let me put it that way. How does PAN 2.0 change it? Today, you already have direct to direct for issuance channels. ITD Department has their own website. UTI has their own three websites today, right, where you can apply directly. Our business risk in any way does not increase with PAN 2.0.
Okay. Okay. Thanks. Just another question. On ONDC, there were newspaper reports that ONDC transactions have not picked up. Even some of the vendors in Bangalore, particularly the restaurant chain owners, are moving out of the ONDC ecosystem because of the lack of interoperability. The website is generally not user-friendly; even I myself have checked it. I would just like your opinion on this.
Okay. Pratham, first of all, let me confirm to you, and we've seen the numbers. ONDC numbers are growing, right? Because quarter on quarter, there has been growth. The ecosystem is building up. There will always be cases which will come forth. Somebody has not had an experience, and they've taken a decision, and it gets picked up. Primarily, the at-large is growing. Secondly, if you see, ONDC is a network. It's a protocol. It's something sitting between buyer and seller. There are demand-side applications. There are supply-side applications, which means the application you and I would go to to place an order. On the other side, there is the sell-side application where the merchants are enrolled so that they can fulfill the order. Now, ONDC itself does not run an application to meet demand-supply.
They have recently come out with their own ONDC app, which is a very smart interface, as I've seen it at least. That is my comment. You can try it out and see how you feel about it. Otherwise, ONDC in itself is not a web application. It is a protocol or a network on which multiple apps plug in, and the demand and supply side and the logistics sides get unbundled over there. ONDC, otherwise, is showing growth, and there is a lot of focus on identified categories now where the team is going with renewed vigor to make sure that we are succeeding and going deep in certain categories like grocery, like quick commerce, and all. These are areas we are focusing on over there.
Yeah. Just one thing, when I tried the website myself, it has not been user-friendly. I will surely check that out once again and will get back to you. Thank you.
Sure.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kamlesh Bagmar from Lotus Asset Managers. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, if I see, say, over the years, we have been conveying that we are investing in the new businesses. If I see the last six years, our revenue has grown at 1.8% schedule. If I see your EBITDA, it has fallen from INR 180-odd crore to currently INR 80-odd crore. How are the new businesses going to pan out? As you were highlighting earlier, and it is there in your presentation as well, the eSign or all those identity services where we are seeing significant pressure on the realization side, like the 20% to 28% fall in the revenue. We are highlighting that new businesses are going to emerge. There also, they are becoming much and more commoditized. In terms of margins, how are we going to play it going forward?
Because margins have fallen from 20-odd % to 10% levels, just wanted to have your view on that.
Sure. Kamlesh, let me pick it up on one or two different ways of looking at this. One is the fact that margins have come down. We've also been saying that we have been investing to support the growth of new areas of business. A lot of this investment we've called out earlier was also into tech and people. We built our own development centers. We built our own team of engineers who specialize in open-source technology and who also specialize in building centers of excellence around emerging technologies. That is one part where there's investment which has gone into it. We've been calling it out that the last three, four years have been areas of investment into people and tech. When I look at it, where are we currently? I know that at this stage, the new businesses are contributing still at a very peripheral level.
As I started, when I started this conversation, we've had some outcomes which have been clearly driven by this investment in people and tech. Two or three RFPs that we've won, which are big ones, and you heard subsequent questions to Sandeep also, which will start contributing revenues this year because these are both the first revenue coming at the point of deployment and then annuity revenue. That will increase the overall revenue profile for the company. We expect this money to come in this year. We will see clear contribution from the RFP businesses this year. The second area, which again, we are happy to report and share with confidence, we've been able to open our business in international markets. Earlier, we were definitely for quite a few quarters, I remember saying that we are engaged with multiple countries.
We are now seeing actual implementations and award mandates coming to us. We hope that this year we will follow it up with some more coming in because once you have started, then clearly the reference ability is there in building it. The products like eSign Pro and Rise with Protean, which we in a way launched last year. There is a time to sort of build the market and engage with the customers. We know for us, we also call it an adjacency because for us, it is an upsell and a cross-sell because a lot of these customers we already have as our eSign or eSign Pro, I mean, eSign or eKYC or eAuthentication customers. We go back to the same customer and tell them that we can now provide you an enhanced digital suite.
Where I'm coming to is that while tech investment to a large state is done, and it can never end, the bulk of it, what we wanted to do, we've developed also from the products that we were to develop. We see this year some early shoots clearly. The businesses we've won under RFP, the businesses we've won internationally, and the products which are out there now since last year, there are healthy pipelines and good engagements. We should clearly see them contributing this year. While the old businesses have not lost any of their edge, it was the incremental investment into new businesses which was having a compression on the margins. With the new businesses coming in and contributing at the revenue level, we would expect the margin profile to improve.
Lastly, a lot has been grilled on that particular part, that Plan 2.2. Apologies for again grilling you. If I read the 24th of November 2024 press release of the government, it is clearly articulated that they are going for direct delivery model. Why can't government replicate what they have done in the case of passport services through TCS? Why can't it be replicated here as well? We are hoping that it's not different, that normal traditional channels will always be there. When government is taking such a swift action, all extras, so much confidence, and they are articulating in the press release clearly saying that it will be a direct delivery model, from where are we getting that confidence that there is no change in the moderate percentage on this particular Plan 2.2?
Let me come back onto that again. You correctly said we've been grilled enough on this. First of all, our mandate has not changed, right? I'll start from there. We had a certain mandate from the department. The mandate has not changed. There has been no indication to us to say, "Okay, XYZ time pay change over." This is a mandate we have with us today, which means we are running a system for processing and issuance of PAN cards. The second point I would like to make is today also, there are direct channels, and we see the propensity of the citizens and we've spoken percentages that is there. Down the line, as things change, whether 2.0 happens or doesn't happen, the direct to consumer is always there.
The risk of our business or what we are doing today was anyway there whether 2.0 happens or not because the direct model is there. Now I come to the question of you taking the analogy of PAN centers or Passport Seva [Foreign language] . Passport Seva [Foreign language] is actually the assisted model. In the morning, somebody said, "That's a good analogy. TCS is running assisted service centers." The government is not saying, [Foreign language] That is what we are talking about with PAN card, where we are doing a direct to consumer, which means I go on the website, I submit my KYC details, and the PAN card will come to my house. Passport Seva [Foreign language] doesn't work like that.
You go to TCS and you do a lot of assisted work till you reach a point where you submit your entire data and then the passport is issued and the passport is again distributed by TCS as a service provider. Our example is very much along the lines in what we do today for PAN.
Okay. Great, sir. Best of luck. Thanks a lot.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Shreyas Simple with JM Financial. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir. Thank you for the opportunity. I just want to ask, has there been any precedent that the RFP has been rejected or not selected in the first round, and then the government has given the mandate after rectifying whatever the concerns that the government had? Has there been any precedent like that?
Sure. It will be difficult to comment. Naturally, as part of a defined general financial rule, there is a way bids are handled by the Government of India. It clearly provides for complete transparency in the way the bids are evaluated. Naturally, there is a requirement to make sure that all the bidders have satisfactory answers as to why they were or were not able to qualify at a certain stage. There are clear rules and regulations around it, but difficult for me to call out a precedent. There may or may not be. I am not aware about it.
Sure, sir. Thank you. The second question was on growth. Is there any number that you're looking at? You said that you are investing on new businesses this year. What is the growth target, tentative target that you're looking at for, let's say, next two years?
We have deliberated in the past as well. What we are saying again, we are reiterating again, one, we do not give any guidance. As a general rule, what we are saying is basically our core businesses, which are the pension, PAN, and foundational identity businesses, will grow somewhere between 8-12%. Our new businesses will contribute 25%-30% in the next three years. That is the guidance we normally give to market. Other than that, we do not give specific guidance on how next year or next two years will pan out. You can definitely calculate back of the envelope basis this thesis.
Sure, sir. Thank you. Thank you so much. That's it from me.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Vishal Mehta from Oaklane Capital. Please go ahead.
Hello, sir. I just had two questions.
Yeah. Excuse me. We've heard that our market share is growing. In that case, why are the revenues declining in that sense?
Our market share is growing. The whole market last year, because prior to that year, there was a one-time Aadhaar PAN linkage event. Because of that, there was an upsurge in the PAN issuance. This year, there was no significant event like that. The election was also there in Q1 of the year. Therefore, this year in terms of the PAN issuance market, this year has shrunk compared to last year. While we have grown in our market share by 500 basis points.
Okay. Sir, the other question was regarding the new businesses. On a quarterly basis, Q4, we've seen 100% growth in the new businesses and it accounts for around 7% of our total sales. Is there any one-off in this or is there a structural change where the new businesses like the ONDC, Innovation Layer, and all these things are growing?
I would not say this is a one-off type of growth. We will see consistently these new businesses growing in next quarters.
This INR 15 crore plus level is what will be maintained for the new businesses, is it?
I guess so, yeah.
Okay, sir. Great. Thank you so much. All the best.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will take that as the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Suresh Sethi for closing comments. Over to you, sir.
Thank you. I would like to thank everybody, all our shareholders, and all the people on the call who have been following us so closely for your continued support, trust in the company. As always, we remain committed to building India's digital public infrastructure and also taking India's stock to global markets. Thank you very much.
Thank you. On behalf of Go India Advisors, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.