Earnings Call: Q2 2025

Aug 7, 2025

Summary

H1 operational growth exceeded 9%, with stronger profitability from digitalization and HAS. Investment in AI and U.S. expansion will raise expenses; the first U.S. customer transaction is targeted by year-end 2025, with break-even projected for early 2027.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the conference call of CSU Digital to announce the results of the second quarter of 2025. This video conference is being recorded and a replay can be accessed at the company's website at ri.csu.com.br. The slide deck is also available for download. All participants may watch the participants and see the slides during the presentation. Then we are going to start the questions and answers session when further instructions will be provided. I would like to remind you that the contents will be presented in Portuguese with simultaneous interpretation into English. If you want to hear the audio of this presentation in English, you can choose the language in the icon interpretation at the bottom on the right-hand side of the Zoom platform. For those who don't speak Portuguese and want to listen to this presentation in English, it's possible to do so by pressing the interpretation icon at the bottom of your Zoom screen to choose your language. Before I continue, I would like to take the opportunity to say that forward-looking statements are based on the beliefs and assumptions of CSU Digital management and on information currently available to the company. Forward-looking statements may involve risks and uncertainties, considering that they regard future events, and therefore depend on circumstances that may or may not occur. Investors, analysts, and journalists should take into account that events related to the macroeconomic scenario, industry-specific factors, and other factors may lead the results to be materially different from those expressed in such forward-looking statements. Today with us in this conference call, we have Mr. Pedro Alvarenga, CFO and IRO, and Mr. Fabiano Droghetti, CTO, and the investor relations team. Now, I would like to give the floor to Mr. Alvarenga to start the presentation. Mr. Alvarenga, please, the floor is yours. Good morning, everyone. It's a pleasure to be here once again to talk about the results of the second quarter of 2025 and the first six months of 2025. Well, this quarter to the company, once again, has been very positive for us with many improvements in the main operational and financial metrics of the company. Those who have been with us for more time over the last five or six years, the company has gone through a very important time to change the business, not so much in terms of a strategy, but adding new competencies, new technologies, new platforms. This movement has been extremely important for us to reach the levels that we have been presenting in recent years in a sequence in terms of operational evolution in both our business units. Recapping briefly, we have transformed our platform in a way that it became very broad, meeting multiple needs, multiple businesses in the environment of financial services and well beyond card processing. Today, the company has a full platform, including banking, loyalty, fixing installments. Ultimately today, any customer that wants to operate financial services can count on an end-to-end discussion that is scalable, that is very efficient in management day-to-day for each one of these modalities. In addition to this very intense work of transformation of our platform, transforming financial services alone, we worked very intensely in bringing new mechanisms of hyperautomation, AI to bring this in-home to become increasingly more efficient in each one of our activities. I think that the result is something that we are going to talk over the next few slides. When we talk about the performance of each one of our business verticals, starting in access in terms of cards and accounts. We have been improving all our operational metrics, number of users that are in our platforms that has exceeded 38 million in the second half, quarter rather, of 2025. Active users that are able to bill through our unit that has grown 10% in this quarter, exceeding 23.5 million users active in our platform. Just another number to share with you, the ratio between these two indicators already represents 62% in terms of activation rate. This number is well above the market. The market operates at about 43%, and this reinforces how important it is for the company to position itself in this logic in terms of products, full service, end-to-end services in each one of lines of financial services to our customers. We can have a very outstanding result when compared to our competitors. Even if we compare to the companies and banks that have in-home processing, and this makes us effectively keep along the company's trajectory, three years in this leadership position. Another group of information that is important is related to transactions. Just as we increase the number of users, and then we'll talk more about this further on, the second biggest challenge to the company from the operational standpoint is to continue encouraging, and we have many different mechanisms such as AI, that incentive is recurring that users use more and more each one of the possible transactions that we offer. Just as the number of transactions has been growing 18% per year since 2021. In the first half of 2025, we had a growth of about 4%. The financial volume of the company is very relevant if we think in terms of the share of the financial volume, thinking of the country as a whole, already exceeds BRL 234 billion. A little bit about DX. This is a business unit that has gone through an even more intense transformation process than the other business unit. For many years, we've been operating exclusively in customer experience, in an activity that is very analogical, was at least originally. We worked intensely in bringing new digital channels, creating heavy automation processes that would bring more quality for each one of the solutions that we manage in our platform. Today, 73% of the operations are purely digital, and this is a number that is very significant, and this is what has been making it possible for the company to advance in its financial performance as a whole. We have also created new products. HAS was launched in the end of 2023. In addition of providing the first care to customers, we work in the processes, along the processes in terms of onboarding, document curatorship, fraud prevention. We go into much more complex layers that demand much more technology to manage large volumes. This product, in fact, has changed the growth dynamics of this vertical. We have been able to have a very fast pace of expansion. We have 8 new contracts that we signed in the past 12 months, of which 6 are new. In the last quarter, we had closed 7 contracts, so now we have made that we closed, so another new contract with a new customer this quarter of 2025, in the second quarter. The natural consequence of this operational evolution that I have mentioned before is that the company goes into a different pace that is much more accelerated in terms of growth than what we had been having in the last few years. Operationally, we have been growing at two digits already, but this digitalization platform sometimes sacrifice the unit price of each one of the transactions, each one of the interactions, which has made us to grow at 5%, 6%, 7% over the past five or six years. Now, when we take out this effect and we look at the operational performance, specifically, this growth dynamic changes. The company accelerates this. In the first half of the year, we already exceeded 9% growth. In the second quarter, it was even slightly stronger than that average, very much related to the growth in both verticals. This is a key point of this message. We are not growing just in one place. We are growing recurrently in both businesses, which is natural, as I said. As we operate in a full service model, these two verticals have great interaction, so we have the same customers in both units. Sometimes one customer starts using one unit and goes to the other. So we have this recurrent evolution as part of the growth of our business. In the CSU Pays, this is related to our strategy with partners. This year, we could evolve in the relationships that we have with the base of companies that operate in this vertical. This quarter alone, we signed 3 new contracts to sell new services such as Pix and other services related to transactions within the payment and credit environments. I think that the main highlight is when we talk about pace. For DX, most of the growth is more related to these new contracts that we signed with existing customers as well as new customers, which were not in our portfolio before. Today we have been able to reach many other industries such as telecom, financial services, insurance. So we have expanded greatly our capacity to provide services to new markets, and this explains the strong growth of CSU DX, which in the first half of the year, had a growth in excess of 15%. Now, when we talk about results and more specifically in terms of gross profit, the company, as I said before, is benefited by all this digitalization movement that we implemented over the last few years in both verticals. Gradually, we have been increasing our profitability and productivity in each one of the operations that we manage in our platform. Today, the company has a gross profitability close to 42%, with a very significant growth that we have had over the last few years, very much driven by Pays and now obviously gaining new components in DX because of HAS. HAS has dual possibility of leveraging our results, both of meeting the growth of revenue and also delivering results that are effective for each BRL of revenue. At CSU Pays, for some time, we've been having 54%, 55%, 56%. This is a level that sounds very appropriate for this business unit. DX, we had a very significant evolution of margin. We expanded our gross profit by 38% year-on-year, and the margin is close to 21%, more than 3 percentage points above the last half, just with the 8 initial contracts, and only 6 of them have been implemented. This is really transformational for our business. When we look at the other financial indicators, just as the company has a significant capacity to leverage its operational results, we are a company that generates very good results, and we have an admin expense that is usually very flat. We have the significant operational leverage capacity and isolate investments in new businesses. This is reflected quite significantly in our indicators. We closed this half year with more than 10% of our EBITDA with adjusted margin in excess of 36%. When we look at net income, we grew almost 26%, 27% as compared to the same quarter last year with a margin of 21%. Just a short break here. About the other indicators, we are going to talk a lot about the future in the next slides. I think Fabiano will be able to explain to you our project for the company to go international, all the evolution that we've been implementing in AI, both for Pays and DX. Naturally, to invest in these new modalities, we need to have different skills in the company, different partners in the company. This has been requiring a level of investment from the company that is higher than what you used to have before. We have been hiring data engineering statisticians, people from banks to help us to handle the financial aspects. We have partner offices both in Brazil and overseas to help us with regulation affairs. There is significant demand for new events, new expenses, and that have effectively brought new possibilities. But in the short term, this creates some pressure, of course. In terms of EBITDA, after the effects of investments, we ended with BRL 94.5 million of EBITDA this quarter, and the net income is BRL 48.1 million. This is a very important part of our business strategy. It's important for investors to follow the maturation of these initiatives because this addresses a huge growth potential for the company in the next quarters and years to come. Okay, now talking a little bit about how we imagine creating this and how we are focusing. Strategy are decisions and choices that we make of paths to follow. Our path here is very much focused on 3 major pillars. We need to help our customers to have more users, bring in more users to their offers, whatever financial services or customer service, customer relationship. To expand the number and types of transactions per user with these end users, having more possibilities of contacts, have greater usage of the tools available to get to a point of customization of the offers that is much greater than what you used to have until then, to use technologies to help with that regard. In this manner, to generate more businesses, new businesses with the same user that I already have a relationship with, and I can use the relationship and include new offers, new services, new possibilities to make customers even more profitable. Lastly, we want to make our operations increasingly more efficient. The focus is to get more customers, to offer more services and business possibilities that is greater and greater with each one of the customers, and the back office is for us to be more efficient, more automated, with higher quality. Always looking at digital relationship with our customers, looking into the customization of this relationship with a focus very much on building loyalty. We have this primacy considering the level that we have and the many possibilities that the market offers to use this. When we add up, we can generate value. We tested this in HAS, we applied this in our operation, we applied this to our customers, and we are seeing results coming. This is a tested and approved hypothesis, and now we are going to expand it to other business possibilities that we have, both in terms of payment means, loyalty programs, banking as a service, banking with services included in customer relationship, and also automation of new processes that we are not working in today, and we are going to seek more expertise to work there. As part of this execution, we have knowledge with new people in our team, and with expertise and specialized companies. We've been using this strategy to gain knowledge, and this is going to be very important because more and more we want to add value, which means to learn and to know more about this business. It's not just a preformated technology to meet needs. Also because we want to gain scale, to help customers to lead better what they're experiencing today. Everything that we look at in terms of efficiency, either in a relatively small process in a company or something that is really central in the relationship with end users, we are going to deal with it in the same way, with expertise and details, trying to differentiate ourselves from mere technology services. We offer specific services using technology as a lever. This is an important point of our strategy. Now going a little bit into more detail. Everyone is talking about AI. Artificial intelligence is transformational for many businesses, but we have been using this with responsibility in the sense of bringing concrete, actual, feasible initiatives with whatever is available today, which is not perfect. There's still another step in the evolution that is going to come very fast, for sure, but we are basing ourselves very much on big techs to bring this specific technology knowledge. Of course, to translate this into some business reality with our customers and our internal operations, there is a long way to go there. We've been having quite interesting initiatives and very detailed, and we can go into more detail afterwards. The three main focuses are these. So number one, to have a different offer that is personalized, that is aligned with the needs of end users or end customers. Also, to add efficiency to these processes, relationships, services. How can I enhance efficiency? And efficiency means quality and speed. How can we drink from the source of new technologies and incorporate that in our offers in a way that is current, not just as an isolated initiative. Innovation is not just a department in CSU. This is important. It is not isolated with a little team or in products. No, innovation permeates our work fronts, our teams. Innovation is in finance, in HR. So in all our departments, we have innovation. This is our objective, and we have been working intensely to engage and bring all of this as part of our culture. So this is the third pillar. We want to look at other geographies, products that will be globalized shortly. We will talk about the geographical expansion, engaging teams, engaging the company as a whole to bring innovation. Then we use the technologies available, and we are going to talk about AI a lot because this is being transformational and changing any of the services, but with very specific results. Focus on primacy, focus on customer relationship, and in a second layer with automation, quality on higher levels of satisfaction. This is something that we seek, too. So drinking from this source. Today, we have bringing many startups closer to us, and this is a significant challenge. So startups, many times they do not have three balance sheets to show to us, for us to assess them. Sometimes they are very new. They do not even have an organizational structure that is robust. And we have this challenge. How can I fit good ideas, good technologies that started from startups, and how can I make this fit? Whether they are finance, retail, whatever industry, how can I fit this? How can I have responsible data governance, information security within this context? So we are seeing this in the market. How can I coordinate the good ideas with good technologies that emerge, and how can I deliver this in a robust way that is fast and robust, efficient and safe? How can we coordinate that? So this is the main source of our endless hours of work. Now, explaining a little bit more detail of primacy. We have been developing a few initiatives in home, talking about advisory. We explain in other presentations, just explaining briefly, how can I give tips to the customer to use better, so that they can have more benefits and customers and users of the product, and how they can make their experience be more productive in that relationship. So in this manner, our customers gain primacy. On the other hand, in the market, we have an activation rate that we are always provoking it. And we talked about our success with an activation rate that is better than the market average, but this is also related to choosing the right campaigns, the right benefits to bring users into the game. So users that had some initial contact with a product, a brand, a customer, but they are not interacting in the day-to-day. How can I bring them back into the game? I should use this in an intelligent way, in the right way, and this is super important. The example of the smart limit. Today, there are so many possibilities of payment means available. How can one control that? How can one organize all of this? Using a card limit, for example, two different brands, how can I use this on a day-to-day in a simpler way? This is what we have been bringing in terms of offer to complement the relationship with customers so that they can interact with users. The smart authorizers is another interesting. Many times we experience that you are at a drugstore and you cannot buy something because of some problem, and this is a critical time or delicate. Having an authorizer that can identify certain situations, sometimes, you are over your limit by just a few BRL, but then allowing that transaction to happen with building trust with the customer. This is going to bring the so-called primacy in a responsible way, without really incurring too much risk. Lastly, we cannot fail to talk about financial products without talking about security. We handle a large amount of data, 38 million accounts and cards that we handle every day, billions of transactions that we process of APIs every week, every month. All of this demands great care from our security department. We have been investing heavily on this. Our main focus of investment is to create these experiences in a safe and controlled way with the right tools to really drive and boost the business. Security spark is an integral part of our deliveries. It is not someone department is there to build barriers to the launch of new products. We have been able to do that. Of course, using AI. AI was being used as a security tool for many years. Maybe we did not call it that. Of course, we reinforce that with new possibilities and other areas that use very much machine learning techniques, more specifically. Now they have evolved. It is always a race between the fraudster and our technology. This fight is ongoing, and we are very proud of everything that we have done so far, but we cannot ever stop, not even for a second because people committing fraud, they are very dynamic. Just a comment. Each one of these initiatives, they are closely related to the previous point that Fabiano mentioned. Whenever we launch new products and new functions, we are bringing in new customers as potential customers with more users. If users are more active and with more transactions, the company generates more results, and all the transactions need to be safe and valid. Every much is related to a company's growth strategy. Now, when we look at HAS especially, and we mentioned the importance of this product line in our company, and especially in our results. It has also brought something important and opened doors in customers that were more difficult for us to access. It is an enabler of these relationships, and new opportunities have come up. Today, we are at one step in the evolution of HAS. Today, we are developing HAS 3.0, which is the use of Gen AI to use this technology that is available in the market as reasonable cost, with more accessible or affordable technology, using this in process automation, bringing hyperautomation, making it affect not just a robot that performs pre-programmed tasks. Expanding this execution to customer relationship. Sometimes I need to bring some feedback or input from customers into the process, and today it is still done with human beings talking. Now we are testing and we can have this in production using generative AI, in whichever channel, can be voice, text, WhatsApp, app, to provide some input and create some results so that we will make the process automated without depending on the interaction with human beings. Now the next step, we have been talking a lot about technology, and those covering technology will understand are the agents. So AI agents. They are just specialized applications with the use of technology in some business process, some product interaction to solve some problems. This is not more than the technology that is trained to perform a certain role or function. For those who watched "Matrix" and like geek culture, so you can see it there, and they are very present there. But now drawing a parallel with reality, we have been developing, for example, agents that will try to help human beings to be more efficient. So we call AI Operator. All our operators interacting with end customers and in the processes, they will have available to them agents that will help them be more efficient. They no longer need to do research, read documents, or remember, or ask something to a colleague or manager. So they have the agent to support them and help them to have faster and more efficient services or to solve a back-office problem in a more assertive way. This is the kind of development that we are aiming at in the next phase of HAS, which is to use automated agents. Not just automated processes, but having agents that will solve problems in a truly smart way. I think that this roadmap is a roadmap that we are very much focused on, and then startups help us with new ideas, new possibilities, and lots of good people in the market creating AI agents for very specific problems. For credit analysis, if we use AI for credit analysis, it has been used for a while. An agent solving a specific problem with it as part of this very long process is something that is new, and we are looking at the market very carefully with that regard. Once again, translating into numbers. Each one of these evolutions should bring in more volume, more capacity to escalate the business, and obviously much more productivity, efficiency, and profitability to us, our customers. Everyone should win. End users are more satisfied, better quality, our business becomes more profitable, and for our customers, it is the same. So they balance out loyalty, primacy in an efficient way of offering services. This is a way for us to preserve our long-term relationships. No customer stays with a company just because they have a long-term contract. This is important. They stay because they are happy and they understand that we have something new with technology, that we are helping them to differentiate from the competition because they have the traditional market competitors. I think that this is very important. We are investing, and it's not just to surf the AI wave, to say that our product is AI or something. We need to offer concrete benefits to our customers and help them differentiate. We've been doing this over the past 33 years. Now, a little bit about our geographic expansion. Of course, Brazil is a very important market for us. This is where we were born, this is where we grew and got stronger. There is a set of factors, and we've mentioned in other virtual meetings such as this, there is something very favorable for us to go to the U.S. market. Despite the entire political discussion and macroeconomic discussions going on, the market is still extremely interesting for our offer. The potential that we have in competing in the American market is something that we know very well. This is an important market. We are already competing with American players here in Brazil. We know which are the strengths and weaknesses, how they work, and we think we have significant differentials, so much that we are very well established here in Brazil as market leaders ahead of them. We also know that we can't get to a new geography and just go there and think that we are going to do everything alone. We already have some very significant partners with important partnerships so that we have this opening in the American market in the most efficient possible way. Both in terms of brands, financial services, to enable our going in there. This is very well advanced. Then implementation. We have customization, and even adjustments in the platform so that they will meet the American way, the way they like to work. They have their unique features, they are different from Brazil. Brazil is much more complex, but there are differences there. It is important for us to have this vision very clear in terms of what or how we can help the U.S. market to transform itself, but we also need to be aware and to go into their pace to then present innovations. We should fit in first and then bring in innovations. In the implementation of the operation, there are natural challenges in this type of initiative, but the initial success that we have had gives us an indication that this is the way to go. Some certifications will be necessary. We have to trigger them, formal homologations with brands, and audit certificates that we will need to show to our customers and to become a service provider. This is already going on, and we are expecting a launch shortly, and we have high expectations. We are really looking forward to seeing the first results later this year or early next year. Now we're moving to the final part of our presentation. As I said before, the company has always been working on the binomial of growth and sustainable and profitable growth. This is our DNA. This is how we manage our day-to-day businesses. In terms of operational generation, the company has still been generating very good results. We have an EBITDA 86% in operational cash. This is effectively a major strength of our business, and this is what has made it possible for us to repeatedly expand investments, reinforce teams, bringing in new partners quarter after quarter. In addition, the company is also seeking new ways of providing faster return to our investors. We know that the market is really eager to find recurring profitability combined with growth, combined with good assets. We have been creating a practice of payout of dividends that is very attractive. We will pay out of 50%, more than 7% of that yield in the quarters. This year specifically, we have already paid BRL 32 million between dividends related to the year of 2024, BRL 14 million in interest on equity related to the current year. We are keeping this practice in a very consistent way along recent years. Now, when we talk about the capital markets, the company has been showing a strategic change, how good our business is, and we are getting closer to other agents in our industry. This has provided a significant evolution in the price of our shares, and total return to shareholders is in excess of 78%. We have also had significant movements in our base of shareholders more and more. We have partners, investors that turn into our partners that contribute to our business for the evolution of each one of these initiatives that we want to lead. Despite the appreciation of our shares, we are still far away in terms of market multiples. We show this visibility to the market and everything that we have been building is something that we have been doing more recently. Despite the evolution, the company is still being traded at one time. The revenue at three times the EBITDA, very distant from the average in the industry, both in Brazil and internationally. As closing remarks, I think that the summary of CSU Digital, this is a company that has a strong focus on results, always thinking innovation, always implementing new initiatives with long-term vision that is important. I think that is a company that is more than 33 years old, that it speaks for itself. Right now, we are launching an operation in the United States from now until the end of the year. We are investing heavily in artificial intelligence to leverage our competencies in hyperautomation of processes. There is still a lot to come, not just in terms of past results that we highlighted during the presentation, but we expect these investments to be able to leverage even more our platform. Today, the company has a very good capital structure, strong cash generation, which makes it possible for us to keep the pace of investments and to be attractive for investors. I think this was it for today. Now we are going to open for questions. Thank you. Thank you very much. We are now going to start our questions and answer session for investors and analysts. If you want to ask a question, please click on the raise hand icon at the bottom of your Zoom screen and wait for new instructions. If you want to send your question in writing, please type your question, name, and company that you work at the Q&A field. Please wait while we collect questions. Our first question comes from Bernardo Guttmann from XP. About the HAS Solutions. Are we seeing a quarterly evolution in terms of contracts signed and implemented? What share does this solution have in the company's bottom line? What should we expect in terms of share of this product from now on? Thank you, Bernardo, for being on the call, and thank you for the question. Well, I joke that I am suspected and one of the most enthusiastic persons with HAS. HAS is a product that, in essence, practically all major companies, regardless of where they operate, they need to have it. Along the life of any company, there are acquisitions of new businesses, new platforms are developed, we adapt solutions. It is very common to have multiple systems, multiple tasks, and this makes companies still gradually have some degree of inefficiency in managing their internal processes. Whether they are business processes, in the way that you manage your HR sales. Usually, when I talk about companies that have an intense relationship with many users now looking outside, inefficiencies are naturally expected. This is where we go in. HAS has this capacity of organizing in a great way that all the data generated by each one of the platforms to get the data and turn them into business input, and then you manage each one of the activities that used to be 100% manual. With lots of difficulty for the people conducting those activities to use top efficiency to optimize each one of the processes. More and more the market will be looking at these solutions. We are already looking. There is a very rapid expansion. 15%, basically with few contracts, it already demonstrates the potential of this business. If I may, there was a checkpoint just yesterday of one of the implementations that we are finalizing. There were 33 auditable elements, 33 different screens that they need to go to complete one service process. With our implementation, they will do two. Just a little color. Screen changes is very symbolic. You provide great efficiency. What about the number of mistakes that can take place if you have this many steps in a process? I can say that HAS has a great potential for the growth of our businesses. Today, it accounts for 12% and 13% of DX revenues, and it has the potential of transforming the pace of growth, the total result of DX to our business. This is a very promising market in our opinion. Our next question comes from Alex Andre from AOL Invest. Can you give us more details about the entry strategy in this competitive market? The U.S. project is at a very strong pace now in terms of implementation. We have the objective, the first productive transaction at the end of the third to the beginning of the fourth quarter. We are very much focused on this theme. In terms of schedule, as Fabiano said, we are way ahead in terms of approvals. We have done a lot in terms of regulation affairs. There are a few minor adjustments that we need to do, and we are aiming at this solution to be productive with customers. It is not just our internal productiveness to really making it transactional with the first customer on this front. In our opinion, this is a market that is very relevant, obviously, considering the size of the economy, but much more than that, it is a market that needs new solutions. It is a market that calls for new technologies. The problems that exist on a day-to-day in Brazil that has made our financial system very mature are starting to come up in the American market, such as inflation, interest rates, fraud, to pay expenses in installments. In fact, the market is very demanding. Here, we are even talking about American companies. Now, when we look at the Brazilian companies that are already operating in that market or that are going there, they might have an even greater sense of urgency. We are taking wide steps in that front. We are investing there because of that, because we understand that there is a window of opportunity that is very significant for our business. I think that there have been a few moments in history that we have windows such as this, a market that is very demanding, that is reorganizing itself, but still in need of offers. This is where we go in to bridge that gap. Basically, we are developing technology and the commercial front is already going on. We have the first contacts. Just last week, we answered our first RFP. The regulatory and legal parts are going on too, and everything goes in parallel. The RFP, the request for price, the customer already asking for our prices. The next question comes from Guilherme Cruz. From Virus Research, what are the risks that you think there may be when you go into the U.S., considering the more turbulent relationship between the United States and Brazil right now? Thank you. Thank you for the question. Well, it is a difficult question for us to answer because everything is still very unpredictable. What we have today in terms of exposure to that theme, I think the impact is zero. Today, the main effort that we have is to create barriers for imports in the American market in order to foster the local economy. As we are building an operation there, based there with an office, people, the platform, they are using the technology there. We are not seeing today any type of greater risk in relation to that movement. But we are monitoring it closely because this is an agenda that sometimes changes overnight, literally. We are paying close attention to each one of these times in the U.S. market. Our next question comes from Gustavo Lopez, individual investor. Which advances did you have in these two quarters in CSU unit in the United States? What is the break-even forecast in this unit with such great potential? Well, Gustavo, thank you for the question. I think that we answered the first part. Advances is very much related to technology. I think that we have evolved greatly this quarter because once again, the objective is to have the operation operational before the end of the year. With customers, we have made very material advances in all fronts, technology, operations, regulations. We are crossing this frontier very well. In terms of breakeven, our expectation is when we talk about Pays, whenever you sign a contract with a new customer, it takes a while until there is maturity, especially if you go in with a large volume of transactions. There is a testing phase on both ends. The company that hires us, they want to see if our platform is functional, if we meet their requirements, if the marketing strategy is appropriate or not. There is a learning curve. As soon as we have it there from now until the end of the year, the revenue that is going to be generated is very small for this year. Next year, we start the first half of the year, much more gradual in this evolution. But we expect the revenue volume to be much higher in the second half of next year. Meaning that breakeven is likely to be in the beginning of 2027. This is what we expect. Of course, this speed can change materially if our theory, if our thesis of investment that the U.S. market has a very large demand for these kinds of solutions, the speed can be shortened. Or the opposite, maybe breakeven might take a little longer because implementation will take slightly longer, there are more decisions to make. It's difficult to give you the exact timing, but this is part of our planning for this vertical. As a reminder once again, if you want to ask a question, please use the raise hand icon or send it in the Q&A by typing your name and the company you work for. Please wait while we collect more questions. Our next question comes from Bernardo Guttmann from XP. Thank you for your answer to my last question. I have another question. Since the end of last year, we are seeing a new level of operational expenses, which have been putting pressure on EBITDA. Is this level of expenses likely to be the same in future quarters, or are you expecting new increases considering the investments in the strategic projects that you have now? Well, expenses, as I said, are 100% related to each one of these projects of AI, particularly, and to the project in the U.S. market. So expenses will continue to grow according to the pace of evolution of those business units. I would say that today we have a structure that is very appropriate. At the beginning of the year, we brought in an executive officer that implemented a global account and global cards. In Brazil, we have a much bigger technology team dedicated to this structure. We have a relationship and sales team that is appropriate. I would say that in the short term, this level of expense that we are at today is very appropriate for the stage of maturity that we have. Now, if everything goes well and revenue starts to be faster, of course, we need people to handle everyday operations. We have financial support, HR, everything. Naturally, expenses will go up, but they are going to respect the evolution of the business. This is very much a keystone of the company. If you look at the history of the company, we have been growing very intensely in terms of EBITDA and net income. In 2021, 2022, 2023, when we got to 2023, 2024, we were at a pace of BRL 23 million-BRL 24 million net income, EBITDA BRL 46 million, BRL 47 million, BRL 48 million. If you see, we are making all the investments, new operation, new country in USD, and we managed to preserve the profitability. This demonstrates the company's financial discipline. We will continue to respect the generation of results and cash. I'm not going to give you one number, but the only thing I am sure of is that this is going to evolve according to our financial performance. Our next question comes from Lucas Vargas from Warren Investimentos. Good morning. Congratulations on your results. Do you think that the EBITDA margin should get to which level with HAS? Great question, Lucas. HAS, in essence, will gain profitability a long time. But when we talk about artificial intelligence, as Fabiano said, and I'm taking up your space, but it's important to have this in the investor's vision. You basically start working with a specific volume of data, specific journey, a few touchpoints specifically, and this makes you just once a HAS platform goes live, you have gain in productivity. This is more than demonstrated in CSU results. We improved our profitability when we used HAS for us or when we signed the first contracts. We gained more than 3 percentage points in the margin just with the first contracts with HAS. Fabiano, please correct me if I'm wrong. The machine has not even been completely trained, so the operation gains maturity a long time. The more contracts that we have on the same theme, the scale gain in that is absurd. We are implementing the first process of XYZ. Once the second process comes in, there is a really great scale gain. Our expectation is that a long time, HAS will bring performance that is 30%-40% for each one of the contracts. Today, most of them is set 25%, more or less. Those are numbers that are very feasible for us to reach in the midterm. Thank you. Now I would like to give the floor to Mr. Pedro Alvarenga for the closing remarks of the company. Mr. Alvarenga, please, floor is yours. Once again, it's a pleasure to be here with you. I know that there are many things, many new things, so it's natural for questions to come up. I, myself, Fabiano, and our investor relations team is available to other questions that you may have after our meeting. It's been a pleasure to be with you. Have a good day, and see you next quarter. Thank you all very much. CSU Digital conference call has now ended. We thank you for your attendance and wish you a very good day.