Moura Dubeux Engenharia S.A. (BVMF:MDNE3)
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May 5, 2026, 5:07 PM GMT-3
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Earnings Call: Q3 2024

Nov 8, 2024

Aline Aquino
Head of Investor Relations, Moura Dubeux Engenharia

Good evening, everyone. We now start the Presentation of Results for the Third quarter of 2024 of Moura Dubeux Engenharia. I am Aline Aquino, and to present the results today, Diego Villar, CEO, Diego Wanderley, CFO, and Diogo Barral, Director of Investor Relations. To make questions at any point during the presentation, choose the Q&A box. At the end of the presentation, we will answer your questions, any Q&As. I'd like to also remind you that any declarations that may be made during this conference are based on premises of the directors of Moura Dubeux Engenharia. The future considerations are not guarantees of future performance, as they involve risks and uncertainties depending on factors that may or may not happen. Having made this disclaimer, Diego Villar, please go ahead.

Diego Villar
CEO, Moura Dubeux Engenharia

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome once again.

It's a pleasure to be once again here presenting third quarter results for 2024 for Moura Dubeux, a year which certainly has been consecrated as the best in the history of the company in our 41 years of business. In the third quarter, we brought records both operationally, launches, sales, but the most important we bring is a record of profitability as well. Bringing something that we have already brought with consistency, informing the market where the company would get to and what is the size of our potential market. In fact, in the message from the administration present our release, I talked a little bit about that in relation to the size of the market in the Northeast, the size of the condominium market.

During many years, we were questioned by the market in general, how deep the real estate medium and upper class market was here in the Northeast. What is the size that Moura Dubeux is able to operate in the condomínio fechado regime. Now, five years later, closing in December, five cycles of presentation of results, we started to build the confidence not only in Moura Dubeux, but in our market. We see that through some highlights that I'm gonna mention and highlight to you. I'm gonna let Diego Wanderley and Diogo Barral explain further ahead, both the operations, those financial numbers, and I'll be back at the end for the Q&A. We launched in the third quarter of 2024, BRL 1.1 billion in PSV.

Net PSV, if we look at analysis for the last year, we reached BRL 2.5 billion in the last 12 months. Of this BRL 2.5 billion, BRL 2 billion were launched in condominium and BRL 515 million, 20% in the corporation regime. This is an important point to point out, both the launches in the third quarter and also in the vision of the last 12 months. In a disciplined, myself, Diego Wanderley, have been explaining to you that Moura does not operate in the limit of the capacity, both for execution as well as principally for the market in the volume of launches and sales. We use as a basic trigger for the making of decisions what size we're gonna reach in the next years. The next point is obvious. We're trying to enchant the client, surprise him in the execution of the project.

The other one is to not leverage the company. The decision for us is not based on the size of the market, because today we believe that the market is bigger for Moura Dubeux than that which we have been operating. We're cautious. We're not generating any leverage in the company in a cycle of recurring dividends, which we have now begun starting in November. So much so that we are launching BRL 1.1 billion and selling almost BRL 1.1 in the third quarter. In this strategy, lower leverage and lower risk, we prefer to take us to the limit, the size of the market in the condominium, post condominium model. As you can see here, in the last 12 months, we launched BRL 2 billion in PSV, net PSV in the condominiums, post condominiums.

When we look at the flow of additions to this type of business model, we reach BRL 1.6 billion in the last 12 months. Here, it's important to point out what we say, some of these points, when I commented in the message, from the message, the depth of this market. In 2019, when we operated only in the condominium market, only in Recife, we talked about a market of BRL 400 million-BRL 500 million just for the condominium model. Over time, not only did that market grow as well as two new avenues opened for this type of business. One, for the expansion into the Beach Class, into the beaches. Diverse projects this third quarter with the launch of Beach Class we used in the post-condominium model, almost the totality of these markets.

These projects used the condominium model. When we leapt from BRL 400 million to BRL 1.6 billion in sales, annualized sales, quadrupling the size of this market. Of course, when we look forward, we're not planning the company for BRL 1.6 billion in condominiums because this could be seasonal. However, this market is certainly no smaller than BRL 1 billion based on what we've been producing. We raise the level of launches. We also elevate the level of sales. Just in the last 12 months, we had BRL 2.3 billion in sales, of net sales. BRL 1.6 in the condominium amount, and BRL 636 million in corporation or development. Just in the third quarter, BRL 1 billion.

We sold what we launched, which shows that we have met, as you can see, the PSV of the last 12 months, the quarter. Any period of time that you look at, you'll see that we have been outdoing ourselves in sales. In PSV, 53%. One of the best in our segment with those listed on the stock market. BRL 9.3 billion in land bank, which we'd also like to point out that Moura Dubeux, which is positive news, whether they be operational or financial, but also the quality of the product in the market, has been able to very quickly replace our land bank that we've launched. We launched BRL 1 billion and the land bank grew, remains stable because we're very fast and able to replace this land that has been developed.

A significant part is with physical swaps, financial swaps, and a smaller part in cash, strengthening even more our capacity of low leverage, higher profitability, and return on capital by the stockholders of the company, and also an improvement of the profitability of our projects. We reached in the third quarter, BRL 502 million in net revenue, which is important to us, what we've been signaling to the market, and as you understand very well, that as we have been gaining revenue and maintaining our expenses stable, we've been improving the efficiency of the company, making it possible for us to have a higher level of profitability. Just to give you an idea, our G&A net compared to net revenue in the third quarter reached 5%.

If you look carefully to see how much we've had in the way of administrative expenses in the third quarter of 2023 compared to the third quarter of 2024, not even what was up less than inflation, showing how much we are constantly after operational efficiency. We reached a number of almost BRL 90 million just in the third quarter, BRL 89 million of net revenue, net profit, which brings us in the last 12 months, BRL 240 million in net revenue and cumulative net revenue, and growing. Improving our return on our equity, improving our net margin and then growing even more the profitability of the company. This number has been advancing positively.

The second quarter after the period in which we burn cash instead of generate, but now we also generated cash, taking the net debt of the company down to 4.2%, which is all very, very low. We initiated my conversation with you, showing our commitment with low leverage. The growth of Moura Dubeux based on what is marginal or exceedance and a low leverage, we don't have any net debt above 20% compared to net equity. The payment of at least BRL 100 million in dividends annually. Starting on the November 22nd, there'll be the liquidation of BRL 55 million in dividends, which represents 67.65 centavos per share.

Now defining the habitual payment of every six months payment of dividends for Moura Dubeux. Obviously, given conditions predefined that we have today, a good cycle of projects, excellent sales, the low level of cancellations, that we're very confident that this will be the first of many payments of dividends. The growth of Moura Dubeux occupying space in the limits of Mood and the incorporated traditional development model, we are de-leveraging and high profitability. That's how it works with Mood and our condominiums and our traditional corporation business, development business. We are composing what will be the Moura Dubeux of the next five years. It's important to talk about the next five years because we're now closing in 2024, five years, as a publicly held company, five years of growth cycles.

What's more important, stability and margin, brand image, and predictability for the market. Next slide, please. Next slide, please. In the third quarter, we had four launches. From the left to right, Trairi 517 in a closed condominium model in Natal. PSV of BRL 92 million. After that, Casa Mauá in a condominium model. However, this time in Fortaleza with BRL 201 million PSV. And the Infinity Salvador, closing the cycle of the land of the old Othon Hotel, which we launched in the second quarter. And now we're building the most residential and business complex. Finally, Beach Life Mangues , also a closed condominium. In the southern coast of Pernambuco in Carneiros, BRL 377 million for the PSV, BRL 409 million.

The sum of these four, BRL 2.1 billion, as I mentioned on the previous slide, BRL 1.1 billion on the previous slide, showing how we very quickly develop products. Remembering that we acquired the Othon in December 2023, and by July, and now in the third quarter, we already have the launching of the entire complex development sales and improving their profitability of the project and selling very well. It has more than 70% sold, and the business part is already 40% sold in a very short period of time. Next slide. That is, we should now launch. In the fourth quarter we've already launched the Candelária, one more Mood in the city of Natal.

Second, Mood Kennedy in Fortaleza, in practice our fourth Mood in Fortaleza, BRL 147 million of PSV. In Mood Costa Azul Bahia , BRL 173 million of PSV. Moura Dubeux close to the year with BRL 2.5 billion in net PSV launch. Our sales are heading very close to that as well. We've been making good progress with the good performance in the sale of these projects. Next slide. Wanted to talk a little bit about our Mood project. In less than two years, in a presentation like this, we talked about the launching of this new company belonging to Moura Dubeux. We contextualized it, the segment that we would operate and why we were operating in that segment.

The middle class is affected between income, payment capacity, payments, products, which is between 6,000 and 9 ,000 reais per square meter. Fourth level project, the fourth of the SBPE. We developed a construction model, and this photo exemplifies well Arborê. We're just a few months away from delivering it. It was begun at the end of 2022. A project which has 94% of its construction done, excellent sales, and the best its reality is better than the projections. The Mirá in front. Mirá is already begun construction. In Mood Kennedy on the other side of the street. We can say that Mood, in less than two years, has four projects launched, BRL 1 billion in PSV, 41% VSO in the last 12 months.

This, including, as I showed you, recent Mood launches, showing that there is space to accelerate even more. We have BRL 3 billion in land bank distributed all the cities in which we work. Starting in the first quarter of next year, we have Mood in seven of the nine states in which we operate in the Northeast. As how we've been quick in developing a new company, a new model, a business model, and fast in launching and fast in selling and executing. Next year we already have three Moods being delivered to add to the Arborê. With that, I close my highlights of the presentation. I'm gonna pass it over to. Sorry, one more. I meant to talk about our deliveries for 2024.

We delivered eight projects, BRL 811 million in PSV, delivered the first 11 months of the year. There'll be 12 deliveries this year. We still have four more deliveries this year, which will be the Beach Class in Pernambuco, Flex in Fortaleza, Beach Class Meireles in Fortaleza and Boa Viagem in Recife. They have in common that they're ahead of the projected dates, and adding them all together gives us PSV for the year to the higher level of profitability than we had earlier. Some more, some less, but the most important thing is that when we add it all together, we have good quality of receivables, which gives us comfort for this next cycle of generation, cash generation for the company.

Now, I in fact close out my first presentation, pass it over to Diogo Barral to talk about the operational highlights and then Diego Wanderley to talk about the financial numbers, and then I'll be back to talk to you at the Q&A that you may have for us at the end.

Diogo Barral
Director of Investor Relations, Moura Dubeux Engenharia

Thank you, Diego Villar. Good afternoon, everyone. Now we're gonna go into detail about our operational data, beginning with our launches. I think the events during this quarter, as was commented here at the beginning of the presentation, with a relevant volume, we can focus on the right-hand side. When we look at the accumulated for nine months, the company launched almost BRL 2.1 billion, an increase of almost 80% in relation to the nine months of the previous year.

Looking at sales, we also see a level in the quarter as was mentioned. We can look at the right-hand side, our accumulated for nine months, we got to almost BRL 1.9 billion in sales. Represents an increase of 72% in relation to the nine months of 2023. The composition of our sales, when we look at we accumulate the development, the condominiums and the closed condominium, we get to general sales of BRL 1.8 billion. BRL 1.08 billion, and we get to a sale of BRL 1.05 billion. With the cancellations in the lower graph, we improved compared to the second quarter. An indicator improved. We had the BRL 75 million went down, which represents 7% of our sales.

What's important to remember when we present a breakdown of this, of these cancellations, it was or either it was just a change of ownership or a migration between units, and it starts to represent 1.3% of our gross sales. It which shows that we are continuing at a healthy level when considering our operations here. VSV, as we mentioned at the beginning, but we've advanced and we've got to consolidate the VSV. In the last 12 months, we got to 53%. When I look at this quarter in advance of VSV last quarter, it grew quite a bit and significant improvement going from 32%. Down below, we have the VSV of launches, which continues at a very good level, 57% in the last 12 months, and in the quarter, 45%.

Looking at the stocks, which I think is important to comment here. Even though we have presented an increase in our volume, which got to BRL 2.28 billion at the end of the first quarter. On second quarter, we were able to reduce that amount from 15 to 12 months of coverage. With units that are already done representing only 5%, a level that we have been maintaining in our recent quarters. On the right-hand side, we have a breakdown, region by region. You see there's a bigger concentration of our stock in our principal cities, Pernambuco, Ceará, and Bahia. Down below, we see the type of project where we have basically half and half, 50% in stocks are in corporation development, and the other part in our closed condominium model.

Looking at the end of our operational data, as Diego mentioned at the beginning, was very fast in recomposing our land bank. We launched BRL 1 billion and was able to recompose a land bank with BRL 1 billion, the same level of PSV 1.3, and representing 58 lots. The majority acquired through physical swaps. Projects underway in the second and third quarter, the 56 projects, with 20 of them in incorporation and development model, and the rest in the condominium model. Of these 56 projects underway, 48 are projects under construction right now. Our deliveries, as I also detailed at the beginning. We had eight during this year of 2024, and we have 12 for the year. We have four deliveries still to be made this year to close out the year. To conclude what we had pro-projected for this year of 2024.

Four of them in the incorporation model and one in the condominium model. I'm gonna pass it over to Wanderley to talk about our financial indicators. Wanderley?

Diego Wanderley
CFO, Moura Dubeux Engenharia

Good afternoon. We're gonna continue now with our net revenue, which closed the third quarter with BRL 502 million, 66% above the third quarter of last year and 38% above the second quarter of this year, very much pushed by sales in the period and the recognition of the residential project in the Infinity and the Bahia project, which we launched in the second and third quarters. In the accumulated year to date, it closed with BRL 1.2 billion, 38% above last year, both in development as well as condominium, growing.

The incorporation model, the development model, both at a more stabilized level in the recent quarters and the condominium model growing well with the recognition in the accumulated for the year to date for the last 12 months, almost BRL 1.5 billion in net revenue, overcoming the total from last year of BRL 1.1 billion, showing the revenue at a level closer to what we have been doing operationally. As we have been mentioning, we expected to get at BRL 1.5 billion or a little more this year, and we're continuing at this level by the close of business in 2024.

Looking at the gross profit, the EBITDA in the third quarter was BRL 117 million, almost 50% more than the third quarter of last year, 14% bigger than in the second quarter of 2024. This growth in the profitability in the quarter, which had already been very strong for that quarter, was even better due to the recognition of the returns of the two projects which I mentioned previously. This wound up influencing our margins. Looking at a piece of land that we acquired for 100% cash and in the dynamics of recognition. When it's purchased in cash, we recognize it with the cost as well as the revenue, with the profit being the difference. When it's a swap, it's only the difference to our results.

In this quarter, we also had this one which was 100% cash, which had an impact on our margin, raising our nominal gross profits. We finished the quarter with 34.43% margin. For the year, 36.3 higher than the nine months of 2023. We look at the breakdown this year, 44% is from development, 56% from condominium, and the growth margin in incorporation has been improving in this quarter, and we've seen improvement of one percentage point. We continue with this routine that we have been commenting, trying to reach 30%. With the condominiums reaching 43%, a little bit below what we usually see due to the acquisition of land that we had to recognize it for cash.

The gross profit in the last 12 months is more than BRL 500 million, which is what we have been running a level at which we've been running the company. That's what we expect for the close of the year. We're at this level of profitability, which are very interesting and compatible with the operations of the company. Looking at the topic of expenses on the left-hand side, the commercial selling expenses reached BRL 47 million in the quarter, a representation of 4.4% of our sales. This quarter, we had a large number of sales, and part of those expenses are in the commercial has been diluted over the quarter. On the right-hand side, we bring the administrative expenses. We're quite a bit in line with what we reported in recent quarters, BRL 25 million.

We saw a large reduction, especially in relation to sales, representativeness of this expense in relation to sales going to 2.3%. We look at this in relation to our net revenue, 5% of the whole operational increase income of the company. Following along with the EBITDA, the capitalized interest, we closed with BRL 91 million, a margin of 18.1%. In the last 12 months, we have 18.9%, a margin of almost 19%. We look at the year, the nine months for the year, we have BRL 235 million in EBITDA, 50% more than last year. With a margin coming close to 20%, very, very close to 20%, been growing and improving in our operational side. The expenses are a little bit more fixed.

We've been gaining scale and increasing our margins. Net profit to close the financial statement, we delivered BRL 90 million in the third quarter with a net level of 17.1%, which gives us BRL 240 million in these 12 months, an ROE of almost 17%. This has been growing. We've been anticipating this, that our return will increase, especially with the beginning of the payment of dividends, that the tendency is for this ROE to be growing. Look at the year, BRL 206 million in net revenue. We're overcoming the net revenue of last year, which was BRL 122 million in nine months. For the year as well, the year 2023, we offer more than BRL 206 million in the first nine months.

We should overcome well at the end of the year what we did in 2023. We closed the quarter with BRL 266 million, with a margin of approximately 34%. The level of profitability fell due to the accelerated rate of construction and the cycle of deliveries. With that, the volume went down a little bit, but we see that as well in the condominiums. The margin fell a little bit due to the mix of projects to deliver, and we have to recognize this in our results appropriately in our results with a margin slightly below the average, but still very healthy, as compared to recent quarters.

On the right-hand side, we have the closed sales of BRL 38 million, a growth of 15% in relation to the previous quarter-on-quarter. The administration fees for the [Foreign language] , for the closed condominium model, 20% growth in relation to the previous quarter, increased by the number of condominiums launched in that period. Getting to the end, the last slide to talk about the generation and cash consumption. One more quarter of generation of cash. We're anticipating this would be the last quarter of cash burn, with the cycle of dividends.

Actually, we were surprised with the sales, which we're able to contribute to our cash position. We were able to generate BRL 23 million, and this generated for two consecutive quarters, and we closed the third quarter with BRL 64 million in net cash, 0.2% of our net equity. Very healthy indicator, which left us comfortable in increasing the distribution of BRL 40 million net we were planning, and we wound up distributing BRL 55 million in dividends without changing the goal of the maximum rate which we see for the company. With that, we close our results and pass it back over to Aline to take care of the question and answers and take care of your questions. Thank you.

Aline Aquino
Head of Investor Relations, Moura Dubeux Engenharia

Okay, now we can start the Q&A .

If you have any questions to make, please use the Q&A, the Q&A button on the bottom of your screen. We will now answer your questions. The first question is João from XP Inc. Says, "We would like to know what is the expectation for launches for condominiums for next year. And if we have projects, major projects such as the one in Salvador for next year. And the second question is talking about the relation of cash and the payment of dividends. If they would conform with the generation of cash, if we see the possibility of paying more dividends than the BRL 100 million which were mentioned here."

Diego Villar
CEO, Moura Dubeux Engenharia

Okay. As far as the first part of your question, João, first of all, good afternoon. We should launch next year more than BRL 1 billion in closed condominium projects.

Obviously, during these five years, we've never given guidance. We've always stated an expectation of the market. Our focus of low leverages and high profitability for the company. Probably, we will try to give some guidance next year in the limit of the condominium model. Again, working with probably a ceiling of BRL 1.5 billion and a floor of one or BRL 1.1 billion in launches per year. If we can, if there's market, if there's clients, we will continue. BRL 1.1 billion seems very realistic, no problem, with the products that we currently have. Something that we should expect in this range could vary by 50%, but that's how we have always tried to educate you guys in the market. Yes, we do have large projects well-developed.

Our expectation, I always commented to you about several opportunities to launch of a 5,000-square-meter property that we acquired in Beira Mar in Fortaleza. We're building this project with Arthur Casas, which at the current moment is the biggest nationally the biggest architecture with international visibility. Project of two condominium towers on a property which we're planning four condominiums with a gross VGV of BRL 1 billion, and we should have BRL 700-BRL 800 million. We have scale for that. Scale of the Alto in Salvador. Second part of the question. We prefer always work with what we're strong believers in what's going to happen internally, work as hard as we can to surprise you. Nobody was expecting BRL 55 million in dividends. No one's expecting cash, much less BRL 1 billion in net sales in the third quarter.

We prefer to surprise. We can give out the signal is that we've always said to the market in 12 months, November to November, BRL 140 million in dividends. As with the third quarter, we observed there was an improvement in the cash generation of the company, and I remind you all that in all of the parameters in the company we utilize to project the next five years, cash, we're as conservative as possible with cash on hand. Since we've opened our capital, we've been able to perform our cash burn better than we had projected. With this space, we will, or if the stakeholder decides to distribute it.

Another option, to occupy more space in the market in operational capacity, in segment of products that we believe which do not generate exposure, neither cash nor risk, for the company or for Mood. We believe, and I hope I've answered your question. Hope I've completely answered your question.

Aline Aquino
Head of Investor Relations, Moura Dubeux Engenharia

Another one here from Rhaim, from Bradesco. He asks there's two questions. In fact, he asks about the fall off in the gross margin and the effect of the turnover of the condominiums and our margins. The second question, how has the demand been for Mood products?

Diego Villar
CEO, Moura Dubeux Engenharia

I'm gonna answer this, but Wanderley, if you wanna add on, please feel free. Good afternoon. As far as the first part of your question, Wanderley mentioned this part, I believe. The margin of Moura Dubeux is very stable.

Obviously, seasonally, it may suffer a variation of 2% or 3% up or down due to the mix in the condominium project. In this condominium model, the land which produces the authorization was acquired through a swap or by cash. Specifically, cash at the third quarter, we had a significant complex, the Othon project, whether it be through the Othon or the Infinity. This land, we gave this explanation. At the time of the acquisition, it was 100% cash deal. In the auction of the bankruptcy of the Othon company, we added also the taxes that the company owed with reference to that land. We capitalized a lot of resources in that land, so that when we pull that up in our revenue, and we saw the real cost of the land.

Naturally, this gives us the margin of the condominium to a lower level than that what you usually see when the land is 100% swapped, which is what happens in the majority of the times in the condominium model. That the swap does not enter into our financial statement. When it's cash, it goes into the financial statement. This is the majority of the effect on the marginal reduction of our gross margin. We should not expect the recurrence of this. It was the effect of a large project which required a lot of cash and caused a variance in our margin, but nothing that worries us, whether it brings any type of change in the gross margins of Moura Dubeux.

As far as Mood, I think your question specifically was how the demand has been. Mood products have been advancing quite a bit. It grew by BRL 1 billion, that's 41% of VSO, PSV. The only product in Mood product that we see the performance is the same as the viability which are above the normal in Recife. We're used to simple. We're badly accustomed to getting such good returns that when we see something that's less, but we take it, we find it strange. But we're very comfortable. Part of the equation, part of the segment, and waiting for the keys to pass over to the purchasers, just as we had planned. The viability, if we add them all together, are better, and we're, and we believe that Mood will continue to grow. Aline?

Aline Aquino
Head of Investor Relations, Moura Dubeux Engenharia

I have a question from Antonio Castrucci from Santander. He has two questions. Firstly, he asks about how's the appetite of the bank for the concession of co-funding for the SBPE? How is the percentage of clients Mood who opt for a pass-through at the signing the projects under construction? What is the expectation of Mood for 2025?

Diego Wanderley
CFO, Moura Dubeux Engenharia

I think I can answer that one. In relation to the appetite of the bank, all of the incorporation products, development products that we have were contracted via FGTS. We have seen a concern in the market about this. In fact, we're accompanying this with our commercial partners in the banks. We still don't have any. We haven't felt any effects. There were specific questions that we were able to look at savings accounts.

Depending on the products, it could be certified. We don't have any problem to complete the company's work project. In relation to Mood, we've been saying that it was more or less half and half. Half to half would be the clients signed at the time of construction, and 50% wait for the actual occupational license, because we've had a lot of resistance from clients. More than half are paying this after the delivery, and a little bit less than half are paying during the construction phase. We make it possible for them to finance 100% after the issuance of the residential license. However, it's something that increases the results overall. We always try to operate at the limit.

However, today we're not able to do 100%. We're doing a little bit less than half. The expectation of launches, we're very confident that all the projects of Mood are well above the viability levels. We delivered half, which is doing very well with the financial costs versus the cost of launch. The perspective is really good, very strong demand at the end of the line. We believe that the Mood operation will grow in the 2025 period.

Aline Aquino
Head of Investor Relations, Moura Dubeux Engenharia

Rafael from Banco Safra. He had two questions, and I think the first one is about the MCMV pass-through and the difficulty of the client. I think you already answered that.

The second question is the expectation of cash generation next year for the company due to the 20 deliveries that are planned. He wants to know how this goes along with the other parts of our plans.

Diego Villar
CEO, Moura Dubeux Engenharia

In relation to the first part, I think I already addressed that well. We will have no problems with it. We also have a plan B, if necessary. We created recently several partners in funds. If we needed resources, if the resources are difficult to find. As far as the rates, we have the same level of rates than the cost of funding of Moura. At the beginning, after the IPO, we were capturing at CDI at a more expensive spread.

In the last, was PDI lower, closer to what we would see as the ideal rate. As far as the generation of cash for 2025, the deliveries in 2025, we're gonna continue in this level. Today, we're way below the ideal level to run the company. We hope to run between 10% and 20%, with 50% being the ideal point where we're able to improve our returns without running any risks for our stockholders. We should be running at this level and distribute dividends as in accordance with the chronogram which we mentioned here. We're gonna be holding back any launches if necessary, so that the net debt will not grow beyond this 15% level. In relation to the generation of cash and these deliveries, most of our deliveries were condominium model.

There shouldn't be a big pass-through as it was last year. In the second half of this year, which was periods of strong cash generation. We're gonna have very positive next year for the these prints. The third quarter, we closed with more than BRL 400 million in lands received. A lot of this we'll be received in 2025, and we're confident for us to be able to maintain this cash level stable and to grow the profitability of the company with these launches. The planning that we've done here, when the company always surprises us, especially in the question of cash. When you look at our most recent conversations, everything that we've planned, we're becoming better. The operation has also done better. Also because we're very conservative in relation to our cash.

In 2025, it's very comfortable in our planning. It's almost completely contracted, and we are continuing our operational side and doing what we've been doing.

Aline Aquino
Head of Investor Relations, Moura Dubeux Engenharia

I have a question from Maria Angela Castro from Itaú BBA. She asks what are the perspectives for Mood. If we ever think of entering the Minha Casa, Minha Vida market, the low cost residential market.

Diego Wanderley
CFO, Moura Dubeux Engenharia

Good afternoon, Maria Angela. As far as the growth of Mood, we believe that this is a market that without any difficulty, we can operate between BRL 1-1.2 billion per year. On average, it doesn't make much difference from the cities that we operate in. Maybe two Moods in the big cities such as Recife, Salvador, and Fortaleza.

Not necessarily two at a time, but two in Fortaleza simultaneously to reach between BRL 1 billion-BRL 1.2 billion annually. It's a size that we don't see any difficulty. We've grown very quickly. In the last year, we hit BRL 1 billion already, and so we're not concerned about that. If we get BRL 1.5 billion of condominiums and another BRL 1.2 billion in Mood, we're talking about BRL 2.3 billion-BRL 2.7 billion between condominium and Mood, not including the traditional development sales. In answer to your question about the MCMV, we've done various studies and internal reflections due to the fact that Mood is a model, a construction model identical to the MCMV, especially in the third band, fundamentally. It has a cost of construction which is not so far from the third level of MCMV.

However, the price, which is at the fourth level. Some units get closer to BRL 350 million, BRL 350 thousand here. If we did a repositioning in Mood in the lowest class, it would go 100% into the third level with the reduction of financial costs, 2.5% on average. 2.5% lower than the average. Utilizing engineering and the technology which we already have, the Mood projects have been guaranteeing a shorter cycle of construction, and economic viability is in line. Why not take advantage and simplify it? However, in the end, we're very optimistic about the numbers we've been presenting and the quality of what we've been presenting. On the other side, we're very cautious in making decisions.

We've been studying the correct time. If we decide to test the market, just as we did with Mood, test the product, test the market, see how it performs, and afterwards make a business plan, present it to you. It's possible that at the correct time, there could be another avenue of growth in which we could quickly reach the size of Mood and complete a cycle of profitability from condominiums. Purchase third band and move it down, making Moura Dubeux into the major real estate operator in the Northeast. We have several studies underway here in the company.

Aline Aquino
Head of Investor Relations, Moura Dubeux Engenharia

Next question is from Marcelo Kaufmann. He has three questions. The first, cash generation. He asked if we've already come into a moment to be positive over the next quarters.

The second question is, as was mentioned, that the level of sales and sales growth goes from BRL 3 billion to BRL 3.5 billion. We'd like to know what changed to cause this change in our leverage. The third is about the distribution of dividends. If it's planned to go into a cronograma of quarterly dividends. Our idea is to make dividend payments always in April and November. That's our expectation. It could be if it's not April, it might be May. However, normally it would be in April-November plan. Second part of the question is, we see the company taking advantage of opportunities for growth, limited opportunities by its capacity of execution and limited by the condominium model plus Mood and not tolerating more than 20% of net debt after payment of dividends. BRL 100 million per year.

Eventually, they in 18 months represent a cash burn. It will be within this parameter of expectation. It won't pass 20%. Mood condominium plan. If we feel comfortable in relation to the operational capacity of the development and execution of the project, and after the payment of dividends, BRL 100 million per year, if it's gonna be 50/50 or 40/60, at each point in time we'll be regulating the best possible way. As far as the size of 3 or 3.5 billion, this conversation starts as follows. What's the size of the market that Moura Dubeux has in the condominium and development and Mood is able to execute. The absorption of the market, the capacity, soil capacity for production, something close to 3 or 3.5 billion. How would this work?

Diego Villar
CEO, Moura Dubeux Engenharia

BRL 1 billion in the condominium, BRL 1.2 billion in Mood is BRL 2.7 billion, and the rest, BRL 700 million we have in corporation or development projects with good performance of the sales performance foreseen and a lower risk of performance in our portfolio. Much less than 30/60, 30/70 of payment during the execution of the project, which we have been seeing in most of our projects and development projects. Winning development projects. Our expectation, for example, next year, Salvador of 220, which was the Pestana project or the Beach Class Meireles or major projects we didn't even look at. We didn't have to even take any loans from the bankers. This is a picture that shows something like BRL 3-3.5 billion. Now, are we gonna do this next year?

No. Will we do this in 2026? Yes, depending on macroeconomic conditions, cash, leverage of Moura Dubeux, which cannot impair capacity for execution, then it's possible. But it's not in our business plan for next year. We're gonna see how we do over time, and then we will be able to go in that direction. Did I answer all your questions?

Aline Aquino
Head of Investor Relations, Moura Dubeux Engenharia

I think so.

Diego Wanderley
CFO, Moura Dubeux Engenharia

Finally, the cash generation, I answered that in the previous quarter. Next question.

Aline Aquino
Head of Investor Relations, Moura Dubeux Engenharia

A question here from Daniel Veloso, who would like to know about the positive impact on the financial effects on this quarter, and we can expect this line for the next quarters. I think Wanderley can answer that.

Diego Wanderley
CFO, Moura Dubeux Engenharia

In fact, we had growth, really relevant growth in the financial line. It was a sum of factors.

The INCC in this quarter was better than it had been. Principally the best months of the year. That's one of the factor. The other factor was the payment of these land payments doesn't go through the gross revenue. We had BRL 400 million in land payments for the profits in the period. The third factor which impacts us was the operation of cash. We have a cash position which is much more important than it was in the first and second quarters. More BRL 400 million in cash. It's to be expected that this financial results will remain positive. In numbers that are so high, it would depend greatly on what we have, what opportunities we see. They're much more connected. When the rate will be higher, it's expected that this line will be expected to grow.

When interest rates come down, it will be lower.

Diego Villar
CEO, Moura Dubeux Engenharia

We have no more questions?

Aline Aquino
Head of Investor Relations, Moura Dubeux Engenharia

Diego Villar, if you want to make your final comments.

Diego Villar
CEO, Moura Dubeux Engenharia

Once again, I want to repeat our commitments with consistency, quality of our results and our caution in relation to the cash management and our commitment to in fact be focused on execution of these projects, potentializing the results for our stockholders. I'd like to remind everyone in Moura Dubeux that all of the protocols of services, our processes of execution, our processes for management, processes of the company, as much as we have the competence and we provoke these lessons learned and which feeds our we're going to be facing decisions and making decisions which may not be within this spectrum that we're mentioning. These decisions have to be based always on two pillars.

One, the quality of the product, which is surprising the client, enchanting the client, because whenever we have this in mind, it has a proposition on our plan that making the decisions of anyone who collaborates with us, whether it be an employee, a partner, it helps to generate a new cycle of business and a positive perception of the brand for the company, which generates virtuous cycles of acquisition of land and the perception of our clients in relation to the valuation of the product. Second point, but it's not the second in our decision making process. One eye on the right, one eye on the left is that make it as profitable as possible capital of our investors and our stockholders. The second harvest of projects will only happen if the capital flows from our projects.

For it to be able to flow, the best way to capitalize this to have to be at Moura Dubeux is very strong, to be very consistent in our cost, in our operational improvements and our profitability. We believe that when we look at the last five or six years of Moura Dubeux will achieve speaking in an untiring way. I have one more question. The next five years, we'll be able to do even more. It's obvious that this depends on the actual conjunction and our competency, effort and the efforts employed. However, what depends on us, we're gonna do the best we can for this to happen both in the vision of the client as well as in the vision of our shareholders. We open now a cycle of payment of dividends.

You have, as we mentioned, a minimum of BRL 100 million per year of payment, and principally from a company with a very low leverage. It's our focus. Our commitment to all of us that are part of Moura Dubeux to deliver these results.

Aline Aquino
Head of Investor Relations, Moura Dubeux Engenharia

Good afternoon to all. Thank you very much. We're at your service. If you have any questions, I'm at your service. Next week, we'll start into a few roadshows to detail a little more these results with anyone who's interested, and we're ready to offer better clarification. Good afternoon, Good Friday, and a good weekend for all of you. Thank you all very much.

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