Rede D'Or São Luiz S.A. (BVMF:RDOR3)
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May 7, 2026, 11:56 AM GMT-3
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Earnings Call: Q3 2024

Nov 14, 2024

Speaker 1

Projections, operational goals, financial, are based on beliefs of the Board of Directors as well. Good morning. Welcome to the earnings call of the third quarter of 2024 by Rede D'Or. We have here with us today, Mr. Paulo Moll, President; Rodrigo Gavina, CEO of Hospitals; Otávio Lazcano, VP of Finance and IR; and Raquel Reis, CEO of Healthcare and Dental of SulAmérica. The event shall last for one hour, and the recording will be available at the IR website of the company. After the initial presentation, we will start with a Q&A session where more questions or more instructions will be provided.

Before we continue, we would like to clarify that any forward-looking statements that are done during this earnings call regarding the business perspectives of Rede D'Or projections, operational, goals are based on the beliefs and premises of the Board of Directors and based on information that is currently available. Forward-looking statements are not a guarantee of performance, and they involve risks and uncertainties because they relate to events and circumstances that might or might not occur. Investors should understand that macroeconomic conditions, conditions of industry, and other factors, operational factors, might affect the performance, future performance of the company and might lead to results that materially differ from the forward-looking statements. Now, like to give the floor to Mr. Paulo Moll, and he will start the earnings call. Please, the floor is yours. Thank you. Good morning, everyone.

We would like to highlight that our net revenue in the third quarter got to BRL 14.1 billion, which is a 9.1% growth year on year, with an occupancy rate of 78%, aligned with the third quarter. I also wanted to talk about the operational beds. We have had a growth of 230 beds year on year. It's aligned with the accumulated growth in the year. We had a reduction in regards to the second quarter of 61 beds. This is due to an occupancy that is lower. We had signaled that in the second quarter we had a record occupancy, but also a few, specific adjustments in our hospitals in Maceió and Olinda, where we had, some, de-accrediting that had an impact. Now, the accreditation had an impact.

Up until yesterday, we opened another 150 operational beds due to our recent expansions, and now we have 380 operational beds in growth. We still have Macaé, which we launched formally on Friday, and the beds are still operational. We have the new tower of the Aliança Hospital that should be launched in November. The average ticket is growing healthily, 8.8% year on year. We had an EBITDA consolidated of BRL 2.5 billion, adjusted where we are bringing the financial revenues of the reserves of BRL 2.7 billion, which is a growth of 26.2% year on year, the net revenue of BRL 1.2 billion, which remains a growth of 60% year on year. When we talk about the nine months accumulated in 2024, we have a growth of 130% of the net revenue, BRL 3.1 billion.

Remember that the market consensus for the net revenue for the company at 2024, at the beginning of the year, was around BRL 2.9 billion, so we managed to deliver more than that. Well, still with the investments that are done this year and still with the payments of interest on equity and a repurchasing of shares, even though we deleveraged the company with the debt net, net debt drops from 2.1 times to 1.9 times. At SulAmérica, Raquel will get into the details, but these are results that are very positive. The number of beneficiaries growing 4.6% on healthcare and dental year on year, getting to 5.2 million beneficiaries. The loss ratio. We have 86% losses in the third quarter. With the administrative expenses, we are doing our homework.

We have a threshold of 3.4% of the revenues, and this was above 7% when we took on the company. Updating a few important projects. We just launched the three first greenfields of Atlântica D'Or in the last 30 days: São Luiz Guarulhos, Alphaville. These two with a ramp up that is very strong. And still, Macaé D'Or, as I commented, while the three units have a total beds of 623 beds, all of them have a condition of a second phase of expansion that we expect to execute over the next years. I would like to highlight that we launched still in November the new tower of the, Aliança Star in Salvador, and we are in the phase of the new Barra D'Or with a launch, of the, January. Also very important in Rio de Janeiro.

We are very excited with the other greenfields and brownfields that we have the prediction for 2025, and most of them will be launched in 2025. We're talking about expansions, which is Assunção, the Caxias D'Or, São Lucas, Ribeirão Preto as well will have an impact. Also, we had over the last weeks we advanced in an important way with new registrations, new accreditations, the case of Memorial Star. We have the ramp up, good perspectives for São Luiz Campinas, as we've done. This is going to be part of Atlântica D'Or, as we commented. With that, we have organized ourselves to have a 2025 that is very positive. I would like to bring your attention to the fact that we had a great care in the cash flow management of the company.

If you look at 2023, 2024, we differentiated ourselves in the results of the cash flow. This gives consistency to our growth. It was always an obsession of our executive group to work in the cash generation, and I think that this is the way that we operate historically in the company. We have the bonus and the financial objectives to that generation of cash flow, not only the economic, results. This is fundamental so we can take the right decisions. And we made, as you've seen, many of these decisions taking into consideration the economic results of the company, but also looking at the capacity of working with cash flow. We've foregone a lot of contracts to protect our operational cash flow that impacted 2023 and 2024 in the volumes that we could have had, but we prefer to have a growth that is consistent.

And I think that now, taking a look at a larger number of quarters based on this work, we can see that we made the right decisions and we are in the right direction. I also have to mention our NPS as well, still in evolution and high levels with in comparison to the rest of the market, which gives sustainability to our company. And also, I would like to highlight our technical indicators that we quarterly wanted to publish for the society. This is a good practice and transparency so that the patients and society can look, can see the medicine that we're delivering, the safety of the patients, the clinical outcomes. This is a flag that we've raised and that the market has followed on. And I think that it brings a differential so we can attract physicians and patients.

With that, I'd like to give the floor to Raquel so she can continue with the presentation on SulAmérica. I will be here during the Q&A session. Thank you, Paulo. Good morning. Talking about the main highlights of SulAmérica, well, it was another positive quarter. The numbers show that we continue with a consistent trajectory of the recovery from the claims and the recovery of the beneficiary base. So Paulo commented before, but in terms of profitability, besides more efficacious control of the administrative expenses, we are closer to the records, the thresholds of claims. This quarter, we have the dental improvement of 1.5% in regards to the second quarter of 2024. So when we compare the third quarter on the consolidated loss ratio, more than 4 percentage points of improvement. So here we have a trend that is observed of the improvement throughout the year.

This is due to a work that is extremely efficient in the management of healthcare of the beneficiaries, always looking at a utilization that is conscientious and responsible of the services. At the same time, we continue pursuing the reduction of the readjustments that are passed on to our clients, looking as an alternative, the intelligent artifices such as the modular reimbursement and co-participation added to a lower readjustment. It has a drop in the consolidated loss ratio of the claims and also greater possibility of access. We will continue with this metric with the offering of products that are ever more modern and adequate for the needs of the market. Just giving you a bit of a data for the modular reimbursement products, they continue with a strong growth.

We have another 300,000 lives that are with the modular reimbursement that were launched in March and April in 2023. Looking at growth, another great highlight, another period with the net addition of lives. I will continue during the Q&A. I'll give the floor to Rodrigo Gavina. Thank you, Raquel. Good morning, everyone. So let's talk about page six on the volume of patients. To not be repetitive with Paulo, what Paulo said, our volume of patients day was stable. It looks like what we had last year. As Paulo said in the last call, our rate of occupancy in the second quarter was very much differentiated. It went back to the usual levels for the moment of the year. And we worked occupancy rate day, so the number of patients day and the, so we can keep the hospitals with an optimal occupation.

We, if we compare the number of surgeries of this year and last year, there was a drop of 72%, but these are complex. The complex surgeries came while they raised; they increased. There was a rearrangement so that the complex surgeries increased and they had an improvement of the ticket for us. Page seven, we see Paulo's slide. This shows that there was a number of total beds year on year that grew 8%, almost 900 beds due to the deliveries, but they monetized well the growth that we had in the second quarter, up until now of 150 beds, a bit more than 150 operational beds. Last but not least, talking about total beds with all these deliveries, we have 12,000 beds, which is an increasing number, more than 10% if you look at the previous quarter of last year and several hospitals with ramp-ups.

They're doing well. This is the summary of our volume evolution, and I am here during the Q&A session. Otávio, once again on page eight, net revenue, average ticket for the hospital services. Now looking at the graph on the left, the company reported the net revenue of BRL 8 billion for the third quarter of 2024. There is a growth of 2.3% in the comparison of the previous quarter, the increase of the ticket of 8.9%, a reduction of the number of patient days of 6%. When we annually compare the growth of 9.6%, the result of an increase of the average ticket of 8.8% and an increase in the number of patient days of 0.7%.

At the center of the page, the company reported for the first nine months of this FY the net revenue of BRL 23. 388 billion, a growth of 9.3%. The result of an increased average ticket of 5.8% and a number of growth of patients of 3.3%. On your right, you can see graphically the evolution of the average ticket quarterly in the segment of the business of the company. So now going to page nine, the gross revenue and average ticket on oncology. On your left, the company reported a gross revenue of BRL 823 million in the third quarter of 2024 with a growth of 3.1% in the quarterly comparison, the increase in the average ticket of 3.1% and stability in the number of patients with the annual a growth of 17%.

The increase of the average ticket, and the average ticket was increased 12%. At the center of the page, the net revenue accumulated in nine months of BRL 2. 368 billion, a growth of 17.2% when compared with the same period of the previous FY. Result of the average ticket, and an increase on the infusions in the same way that the previous page. We, on the right, present the evolution of the quarterly ticket. On page 10, the recent expenses, and we start with a graph. On the left, we have the total cost of BRL 5.4 billion for 2024, a growth of 4.3% in the quarterly comparison, a growth of 10% when we annually compare.

In the center of the page, the company reported the accumulated total cost of BRL 15.6 billion, a growth of 7.7% when comparing to the same period of the previous fiscal year. This is a growth that is less than the revenue in this window, which allowed for the expansion of the gross margin of the company from to BRL 5 billion, a growth of 13.1% and an expansion of gross margin of 23.6% to 24.5%. On your right, the company reported the general and administrative expenses. You can see a growth of 2.4% facing the previous quarter, equivalent to 3.8% of the gross revenue of the company. Graphically, we represented it with the adjustments to have several elements positive, non-recurrent, so we can have the fair comparison quarter on quarter.

On your right, the company reported general administrative expenses of BRL 856 million, 3.9% of the revenue. Once again, the comparison, which is not fair if we don't take into consideration the adjustments that are necessary for the positive one-offs. Here the reversal for PIS/COFINS over the financial revenue of BRL 3.4 million. If we do an adjustment, it's a growth of 6.6%, nine months of 2023 with nine months of 2024, very much aligned with the annual inflation. So now going to page 11, EBIT in net revenue. Now we have the segments of hospital services. The company reported an EBIT of BRL 2.1 40 billion in the third quarter of 2024, a growth of 16.2% when you compare it quarterly on quarter, a growth of 16.2%, annually, EBIT margin of 29.9%.

Net revenue, the company reported for the nine months of 2024 of BRL 5.6 billion, a margin of 7.1%. The net income before taxes of the third quarter was BRL 2. 6 billion . We had the financial expenses of BRL 391 million, IR/CSLL of BRL 5.4 billion. In that sense, we reported the adjusted net income for the third quarter of BRL 1.25 billion or BRL 1.268 billion respectively. Nine months of 2024, a net revenue and an adjusted net revenue of BRL 3.356 billion or BRL 3.2 billion respectively. Once again, the adjustments are related to the amortization in the acquisitions of SulAmérica at the moment of incorporation of SulAmérica through Rede D'Or at the end of 2024.

Now, page two, page 12, we can see the net revenue in SulAmérica, BRL 7.6 billion in the third quarter of 2024, a growth of almost 2% in the annual comparison. And now on the consolidated loss ratio, we have 82.1% in the third quarter of 2024, a drop of 1.5 percentage points in the comparison quarterly, a drop of 4 percentage points in the annual comparison. Still on the right, but in the lower part of the page, the company reported the number of beneficiaries of dental, 5.1 74 million a growth of 1.8% in the quarterly comparison, a growth of 4.6% in the comparison, annual comparison. At the end, on the left, the company reported the adjusted EBIT of BRL 610 million for 2024, a growth of 80%.

In consolidated terms, the EBITDA of the company was BRL 2.4 billion for the quarter, accumulated in nine months, BRL 6.4 billion. Page 13, that profile starting with the information on your left. On September 30th, the company reported a cash position equivalent of almost BRL 37 million, a net cash and technical reserves of BRL 19 billion. And in the center of the page, we can see the evolution of the average cost of debt and the evolution of the cost of capital of third parties of the company. And on the right, the debt amortization schedule of the company. Last page, page 14, managerial cash flow. We start on the left, the reconciliation of the EBITDA with the variation of the cash in nine months.

Starting on the left, the Consolidated EBITDA that is accumulated in nine months, BRL 6. 483 billion. Moving to the right, we have a variation that is positive of capital, working capital of BRL 1.8 billion. Another step to the right, we have other balance sheet items that are negative BRL 261 million. Thereafter, the payment of rents, leasing, BRL 538 million and taxes, BRL 891 million. Financial activities, cash flow captures, amortization, financial expenses, negative BRL 1.9 million reais, billion reais, sorry. The cash flow of investments, BRL 1.1 billion. And then we get to the cash variation that is positive, accumulated in nine months of BRL 3. 531 billion. And on the right, we have graphically the evolution of the average days receivables, days inventory outstanding, and the days payable outstanding of hospital services. I finished the presentation and I opened the space for Q&A.

Thank you. We will start now the Q&A session for investors and analysts. Should you want to ask any questions, please type the button and then ask your question. If your question has been answered, please lower your hand. Due to the time limitation of this earnings call, we ask the analysts to limit themselves to just two questions. So in that sense, more people can take part. First question from Mr. Felipe Amancio, Itaú BBA. Please, the floor is yours. Good morning. Thank you for taking my question. I have two. First, SulAmérica, we've seen that the result is very strong, even without the seasonality, which is very evident in the third quarter. You went over this presentation, but if you can explore a bit more on the main drivers of growth, do you still see a space for improvement in the claims?

The second question is, well, you commented during the call about the ramp up of a few hospitals in Campinas, for example. So if you have any updates on the development of the hospitals in Taubaté and Ribeirão Preto, that would be great. And do you foresee spaces for new greenfields in the partnership? Thank you. Felipe, I will start asking, while answering this, the first, and then I'll give the floor to Raquel. We are very happy with the ramp up of the new units. As I told you, we started with Alphaville, Guarulhos. We launched, it's been a month and these, the hospital already has full beds, and the expansion of these beds. Alphaville is doing very well and 15 days after Guarulhos. So we got to over 40 patients admitted. The emergency volume of these two hospitals also very strong.

Now about the units, we started the Ribeirão Preto, the works, and in Taubaté, we are finalizing a few adjustments, but we're gonna start the works briefly. About new units that can be added to Atlântica D'Or, I think that this is a recurring question, but there is no exclusiveness between the groups. But obviously, we're always going to analyze good opportunities, opportunities that make sense that we develop together. We're going to develop them and communicate them at the right time for the market. So now I'll give the floor to Raquel. Thank you for the question. Well, little by little, we observe in a general way, an approximation of the thresholds of claims, while taking into consideration the seasonality that is in the pre-pandemic. So still, it doesn't fit very well, but we see the quarters getting closer to the seasonality, the previous seasonality.

The improvement in the seasonality. I would like to remember that we have a big ship, transatlantic ship. To present a strategy, it takes 12 months to get the strategy fully implemented because it depends on the contracts when they and their deadlines. There's nothing different except what we have said of pricing that is more conscientious, more sustainable, and using tools that make these products profitable and sustainable for everyone, for the beneficiary, for the contracting party and the operator. An interesting data besides the modular products that have won a strong commitment. It's the co-participation. You've heard me talk about that for many, many years.

And those with co-participation and relevant co-participation, more than 90% of the sales of the entrepreneurial, but the PME, that three years ago we didn't have any selling with the co-participation now represents 40% of everything that we sell with co-participation in adherence that corresponds to 100% with participation and modular products. So, the, what we're getting, what we're getting in terms of patients, with clients are consistent. We are, this is what we're pursuing to improve the claims every day, but without forgetting the growth of the base. Thank you. Very clear. Thank you for the questions. Next question comes from Mr. Leandro Bastos from Citibank. Mr. Leandro, good morning everyone. Thank you for the question. Too, regarding the ticket of the hospitals, there was a strong evolution.

If you can comment on what was made in terms of complexity, more complex surgeries, what was done in terms of readjustment, there is a concentration in this quarter, and the second one, if you can talk about the evolution of operational beds until the first quarter of the month, if you can give us some color on the contribution of the projects, what can, what has been done in terms of seasonality or other contributions for the projects that's gonna help us with the modeling. Hello, Leandro. Well, starting with the ticket, you have three effects here within this ticket. You have the readjustments, as you commented. You have a part that is the mix of cases. We are making more complex surgeries than what we've done.

If you have a lower occupancy comparison to the previous quarter, the previous quarter, we had the effect of the admittance with a lower ticket. Now the concern is lower than the previous, but with more complex patients. But in the end, you have a mix due to some de-accreditation. So when we decrease the participation of our hospital of Maceió and our hospital of Olinda within the whole, these are hospitals that have tickets that are lower than the average ticket of the company. That has an impact, which is the impact of this mix. So the effect of this ticket is a combined effect of these three factors. Talking about the operational beds, we published, and I discussed this initially as of September 30th until yesterday, we added another 150 operational beds.

Naturally, most of these beds, additional beds are in Guarulhos, São Luiz Guarulhos, and São Luiz Alphaville. As I mentioned, in the case of Guarulhos, this has a high occupancy and we are in the phase of expansion to more beds. We have an expectation of growth within the year of our infrastructure of Macaé that is getting in operation briefly. There the new building of Aliança Star that is getting into an evaluation at the end of November. All of that should contribute so that we continue to have a good ramp up of operational beds so we can start 2025 with a growth that is already important for the company. Thank you, Paulo. Good morning. Our next question comes from Mr. Samuel Alves from BTG Pactual. The floor is yours. Good morning, Paulo, Otávio. Good morning, everyone. Two questions on our side.

I think that it can be directed to Paulo, and it's specifically to the results. I wanted to get more information about the relevant fact, including São Luiz Campinas within Atlântica D'Or. It's more to understand within this agreement: was there any condition in the sense of new accreditations? Even in the initial speech of Paulo, well, new accreditations of new paying parties in São Luiz Campinas. And if you can give us some color, this is the first question. The second question is not so much related to the result, but if you can, it's more related to the new resolution of ANS in regards to guaranteeing assets that can be utilized for the coverage of technical provisions with the publication of October. I wanted to know if you foresee and can you anticipate the amount that will be worked out in a company.

I think that have you done any internal math, any internal studies? Hello, Samuel. Well, talking about Campinas, these are not connected subjects because even though they are part of the same economic group, these are different companies. So our conversation about investment of Atlântica in Campinas and this hospital is part of Atlântica D'Or doesn't have any connection to the conversations of accreditations. I wanted to give you the other news. There are some accreditations that we're looking with such as Memorial Star and obviously the guarantee that we have with the accreditations of the new Barra D'Or, which is a transference of operations, but they go through new contracts, the expansion within Aliança. We have the entirety of the group of operators that we service already. All of those are important evolutions that we've had over the last weeks and months.

I wanted to give you that news, but it doesn't have any connection with the other fact, which is the investment of Atlântica D'Or starting to be subject to approval of the regulators. Once it's approved, we're gonna be the owners of the asset in Campinas. I'll give the floor to Otávio. Samuel, today we don't use any real estate in terms of guaranteeing assets. As you know, we have the incorporation of SulAmérica by Rede D'Or as a possibility and the utilization of this mechanism to have more financial liquidity within Rede D'Or. We thought about this possibility and at the right time we might make that decision. But I think it's important to highlight that the company has a lot of capital. We're doing well with capital.

We have a solid cash position that allows us to do our investments, those that are under execution and other in the future. It allows us to finance the working capital and the daily growth of the company, pay back the shareholders and face our financial obligations. So we don't have an urgency to increase the financial flexibility of the company. But yeah, this is an option. We see the framework. We don't, we haven't used real estate to facing the obligation, but when adequate, it can be taken into consideration. Thank you. Thank you, Otávio. Paulo, good morning. Thank you. Next question comes from Mr. Gustavo Miele from Goldman Sachs. Please, Mr. Gustavo, continue. Good morning, Paulo, Gavina, Otávio, Raquel. Thank you for the presentation. I also wanted to ask two questions.

First, doing a follow-up on a comment of Otávio regarding the financial flexibility of the company. I wanted to understand what are the capital allocation priorities of the group looking at a 2025 with a scenario that is gonna be more challenging. We see great flexibility. So I wanted to understand if you're starting to see any opportunities in the M&A process that is interesting or maybe accelerating the distribution of dividends since the company can pay an interest over capital that is robust. Would it be an interesting alternative? So it's just to get your idea in regards to the cost of capital. That would be the first question. And the second, more direct on complexity of the hospital segment. Gavina commented on an increase of complex surgeries in the third quarter.

I just wanted to understand if this is basal, gains or it has an impact on the backlog. We heard from the sector when we have a typical frequency of the 2Q to 2Q, we have a delay. So I wanted to know if this is the case or it was something more perennial so we can do our modeling. Thank you very much. Let's talk about the capital allocation. You know the numbers of the company. We've presented many times our returns of the several investments. So historically, we deliver 20%, above 20% in our M&As, above 20%, and more than that in brownfields. So whenever we can add M&As, greenfield, brownfields projects with returns of this threshold with our records, then we will be happy in allocating our capital and publishing new projects.

If eventually, because of the robust cash generation of the company, even though we add other projects, we are still bringing a level of the leveraging that is below the levels that we understand that are healthy, then we will eventually decide to do a larger distribution of dividends. But we would be very happy if we can continue to allocate a great deal of the additional capital that the company is generating in good projects that offer good rates of return for the companies and for the company and shareholders. In the case of complex surgeries, this is aligned to our strategy that we published to you. This is the integration work with our oncology hospital area. Oncologic surgery has been growing.

We have a value proposition good for the patient that we can, for the patient with cancer, offer a service for any of their needs, whether it's biopsy, chemotherapy. So that has worked very well, that integration with the hospitals and a series of other initiatives. It's been on the media days ago that we have a pneumology at São Luiz Itaim led by Dr. Tiago Machuca. Well, he's one of the biggest lung transplanters in the world that came back from Florida to lead this project, within Rede D'Or. All of these actions and initiatives, they bring more reference in complex surgeries, and we understand that this is where we have the biggest focus of work.

There is a series of procedures even, that some of our hospitals of high occupancy of the surgical theater, when we can grow in the complex surgeries, then we disincentivize the low complexity surgeries, endoscopies, small procedures many times can be done in an ambulatory and more efficient way. So the set of these actions that I am talking to you will lead to this result, and there are some structural actions that are mainly in the attraction and growth of the complex surgeries. Thank you, Paulo. Next question from Fred, Bank of America. The floor is yours. Good morning, Paulo, Raquel, the executives. I have two questions. The first one, I wanted to explore the margin of hospitals. We see a bit of a pressure when we compare to the previous quarter that we understand that happened due to the delivery of new hospitals.

You commented that you are very happy with the ramp up that you're seeing. I just wanted to understand what should we expect in terms of the next quarters or what should we expect in regards to the maturation curve of the hospital of Atlântica D'Or. You always commented that the greenfield would take two years to mature. So how accelerated can be this maturation curve? And my other doubt that I have in regards to Atlântica D'Or, is there any type of sharing of DNA of the holding of Rede D'Or with the JVs? For example, any type of expenses to the top management of Rede D'Or and Atlântica D'Or? Thank you. Well, talking about greenfields, historically we see, this is what we at the IPO, time we modeled by the analysts, we see an opening of 80 beds per year.

A hospital of 240 beds that would take three years to have them open. What we see within Alphaville and Guarulhos is a rapid ramp up of the building. We hope that Macaé is doing this. We see in these two the volume and we started with 55 beds in Guarulhos. In less than one month, we are doing the expansion of beds. In fact, that modeling that we had historically starts to be accelerated because these are areas that, well, Guarulhos, it's a big population and a big need of having a reference hospital. Macaé, we hope that we can do this quicker than the records that were used at the time of the IPO, but you know, the records that were used by the analysts.

In the case of the other question about the D'Or, what we have with Atlântica D'Or and we have with other units, hospital units where we have partners, is we do a corporate rating. We take all the corporate structure, we look at the percentage of a revenue of the cost, and we allocate it in such a way that this is very efficient. And this is for the infrastructure of Rede D'Or, we have over 70 hospitals and it creates an operational facility so we don't replicate structures and we can keep the synergies with our scale and our size. Thank you for the answers. Our next question comes from Mr. Maurício Cepeda from Morgan Stanley. Please, the floor is yours. Good morning, Paulo, Raquel, Gavina. Thank you for the space.

Now, I wanted to talk about the part of the insurance company of a few sectoral issues. The first one is in regards to the judicialization that we see in the sector. We see. I know that it doesn't appear in your results in such an expressive way in this quarter, but we see by the data of the regulator that the provisions and the judicial deposits have grown. Specifically, they've grown at a very strong rate all throughout time. So what would you expect in terms of prevention? Well, since more massive plans are the entry level for judicialization, you see the small, medium-sized companies' plans. And can you give us a sectoral update to what the sector has done and what do you think can work against this judicialization? And the second one regarding the insurance companies are the next steps.

Because in fact, in the corporate, because of the data of the regulator, the corporate seems to be very much balanced in terms of claims. So now it's a fact of organic growth. And how do you want to get to this organic growth, getting shares of whom and how can Bradesco fit here since there is a commercial presence of Bradesco that is more spread out than SulAmérica? Will Bradesco be a partner, commercial partner in where SulAmérica is less present? Hi, Cepeda, Raquel here. Thank you for the questions. Well, in fact, judicialization in the sector of healthcare is judicialized.

It's a contract that even though we have the coverage that is clear and variable, invariably we have requests that are not predicted and they're more expensive. If you look at the tech evolution, a gene therapy, for example, that is coming up, more and more we have judicialization that is growing in this sector and we're trying to bring the regulator, the pharmaceutical, the Ministry of Health, they are, it doesn't make sense that Brazil has the price of a medication that is higher than England, for example. That's a point that we are attacking and of course it has a reflection in the judicialization. Another point that we cannot let, we have to consider, is the fraud.

You've seen since the beginning of last year with strength the war that we are fighting in SulAmérica is getting hundreds of criminal and civil actions against beneficiaries and against service providers that are fraudsters, so we can moralize the practice. Many times, unfortunately, we still see judicialization as a tool that these people use to get gains in regards to the healthcare contract. That is getting an effect when I came back to SulAmérica last year that Rede D'Or started; we found a percentage of the reimbursement of the total paid for claims that is very considerable in 14%. And today that is around seven and a half, 7.8%. Everything that was done thus far had an effect in the sense of avoiding that this will, well, to reduce the impact of judicialization here.

Fabio mentioned that in December of 2023, we've done a change in the provisions in a more conservative way, but everything that we've done in terms of products without reimbursement, mainly and along the ones that open, that bring judicialization, they have the potential for judicialization that is reduced in the future. Next step, growth. I think that we addressed the strategy correctly. We are fulfilling the strategy. Last year was a year of cleaning up of a few portfolios that were not presenting profitability. We launched new lines, new products. Still, for this year, there are new products coming up, so we can more and more attack all the publics and not just be restricted to the more obvious geographies, but going to others. For example, we launched a product last month.

In regards to your questions on the competitors, and one of them is the one that you mentioned, I think that there is space for everyone in the market. And almost all of them follow without, the competitors. So regardless of the type of association that we had here, Bradesco and SulAmérica, they continue to be competitors of the market. And we believe that there is space for both and a space of growth for both. So, Raquel, thank you very much. Our next question is from Joseph Giordano from JP Morgan. Please, the floor is yours. Well, good morning, everyone. There are a few themes that were explored. We have, we see a great evolution of the ticket. And of course, there is the work of the company to increase the complexity. But I wanted to explore maybe on the size of the paying, parties.

You clean the contract that wouldn't be profitable. So I wanted to explore with you how is the dispersion when we look at these contractual renegotiations of the ticket and how this is allowing us to work with the receivables. It's still very high. Do you see a relief in the paying parties, and maybe there would be a relief for the accounts receivable. Now, on the side of SulAmérica, we see the claims already stabilized with products with more participation. So I wanted to see how do you see the need of readjustment of these plans for the next 12 months? Do you see low digits or high digits? Let's continue. In the case of the ticket, we are aligned with our records. We always say that we do readjustments above inflation, but not a lot above the inflation.

And we try to find a better mix of patients, more complexity, which is the important part of our strategy. Now, within this recent quarter, there is an effect as well. There is a marginal effect, but there is an effect of the exit of a few operators that are present in our hospitals that have a lower ticket than the average of the company. So that has an impact within the tickets. And always remember that we have to look at the seasonality of our tickets. So the third quarter, we have the seasonality here. We have a stronger ticket. The part of accounts receivable, we have a moment of accounts receivable that has an additional deadline with a big operators, a big partners. We see we have the expectation of an improvement here.

We keep the expectation of going up to the thresholds of 2019, but we have an improvement expectation. We still have within our tickets, and this is the work that is strong that we've been doing. We are doing our reduction of exposure and many times the elimination of exposure to some paying parties that are facing financial problems that are larger with an operator that had a delinquency with us. Now it's no longer a delay of extending another week or 10 days. It becomes a difficulty of keeping the payments, and we are doing the work of reduction or even elimination of relationship with this type of operator. I still have accounts receivable that I'm still dealing with these operators.

So there is the expectation that we can also improve our number of days, since my exposure to this type of payer is decreasing and therefore I can bring the company to the lower number of days. But once again, I will, I foresee an opportunity so we can have improvements given the right moment of the sector and given all the actions of the sector. We can, over the next quarters, we can see a better evolution of the reduction of days. Joseph, this is Raquel, readjustments. It might seem contradictory, but we're always working to have the lowest readjustment possible. This for the small and medium-sized companies and the entrepreneurial portfolios, the lower the variation is, the best will be the potential for the sales and retention for the clients.

Looking at a recent past, the variation of the small and medium-sized companies for 2024 versus 2023, there was a reduction of five percentage points, so I think that we can observe that this is very similar along all the portfolios, so since we've been working the readjustments in a few percentage points, it's natural that we see in the future a reduction that is not necessarily in the same threshold, but we, well, to give you a context of what we said at the beginning, to try and look for a readjustment, I'm going to give you a clear and real example. A negotiation of readjustment of 10% for a client that doesn't have any co-participation.

If they do the allocation of co-participation full in consultations, in exams, in emergencies, and you do with the maintenance of the product without reimbursement or with a reduced reimbursement, I can do the reimbursement for consultations. But it doesn't make sense to do this for exams. We have a broad network of laboratories. So there is a broad network, the potential for fraud. So if that happens in this negotiation, I can do the zero of the readjustment. So not necessarily we're pursuing the growth of ticket for any cost. This has to be more sustainable, and we're always looking for this same cycle. Thank you very much. Next question from Mr. Caio Moscardini from Santander. Please, the floor is yours. Good morning. I wanted to get some color on Atlântica D'Or.

Can you comment a bit more on the price of the hospitals that are within the JV base, the other ones on the base? Well, here to confirm that the hospitals of JV should have higher tickets versus the rest of the base. And also I wanted to understand if Bradesco Saúde has any type of benefit in terms of, the tables of the, of the JV. These are different companies. But just to get your opinion and also to understand if you expect that the hospitals of JV have a higher or lower margin than the consolidated of the hospitals. Thank you. Well, the hospitals, they follow the commercial strategy of similar hospitals within the portfolio of Rede D'Or. So if it's, Hospital São Luiz, he follows references from other, São Luiz, whether if it's by SulAmérica or the negotiation with the other operators.

Obviously, operators with a higher scale and higher volume, without wanting to get into the details, usually we have more competitive tables than the small operators. So I think that it's a position that continues the commercial strategy of the company and the references of the market. Naturally, São Paulo has tickets, as everyone knows, higher than many regions of the country. And without trying to make it general, eventually we have hospitals outside of São Paulo that have tables due to its position that are compatible or even higher than the average of São Paulo. But in general, the tables of the hospitals of São Paulo, the tickets in São Paulo are higher than the rest of Brazil.

It's a fact that when we are growing the participation of Hospital São Luiz within São Paulo, we have here hospitals that have a ticket positioning that is a bit higher than the average ticket of the company. In regards to the margins, these are hospitals that we're going to ramp up, but we hope that once the ramp up is done, they have compatible margins and once again to similar hospitals within the region of São Paulo that with this, that these are hospitals that obviously have higher margins than the average margin of the company. We're talking about hospitals with a higher ticket and with a larger size than the medium size of the assets of the company. With a reduction of cost higher than the others. Did I answer your question? Great, Paulo. Thank you very much. The Q&A session is closed.

We would like to give the floor to Mr. Paulo Moll to close the session. Thank you very much to everyone. We will see you briefly in the next call. Thank you very much. The earnings call of Rede D'Or is closed. Thank you for your participation. Have a nice day.

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