Right. Good afternoon, and good morning for those of you calling in from the U.S., and welcome to this expert call organized by DNB Carnegie in collaboration with Embla Medical. My name is Niels Granholm Leth . I'm the Head of Equity Research here at DNB Carnegie, and with me today is also Jesper Ingildsen , who will be the primary analyst on Embla Medical in the future. We are happy that Embla Medical has taken the time to educate us on the company's innovation and product solutions. In a moment, I will hand over the microphone to Helgi Tómas Hall . He is the VP of Global Prosthetics and responsible for product management in the lower limb segment. Helgi has spent the past 15 years in Embla's product management and R&D organization. Following his presentation, Juliet Bjørnson will take over.
Juliet is the Global Product Manager and responsible for product strategy and lifecycle management for the high-end Navii and Rheo Knee solutions. Their presentations will be followed by a very exciting presentation by an end user of the Navii. Gil has agreed to join this call from the U.S. He has been an amputee since 1962 and has extensive real-life experience in vaRheous prosthetic solutions. The presentation is expected to last about half an hour, followed by a Q&A session. For your information, this call is being recorded. With this, I'll hand over the word to Helgi.
Thank you. Thank you for the introduction, and thanks all for joining. We are very excited to get to kind of give you a bit of a more in-depth look at our new Navii. If we just take a quick look at prosthetics in general, that's the business we are in. It makes up about half of our total business, combined with bracing and patient care. Within prosthetics, we also have our new Kneuro orthotics business, but here we'll be focusing mainly on prosthetics. In prosthetics, we really operate throughout the whole value chain, from developing prosthetic components and solutions to delivering them to patients through our promotion patient care. We have a strong position in the market. It's a relatively small market, and it's led by two major innovators, us and Ottobock.
We have seen consistently good growth rates in prosthetics, significantly above market growth. This is primarily driven by our new innovation, and their bionics is particularly important for us, making up about 20%-25% of our prosthetic sales. Importantly still, representing a fairly low unit count. There is still a lot of opportunity to get more patients on these more advanced prosthetics. If we just go and look at lower limb bionics in a bit more detail, we are... Yeah, there we go. Thank you. We are kind of looking at these major market trends that affect lower limb bionics as kind of the whole prosthetic space. On the reimbursement side, we definitely see this demand for more efficiency.
That can mean that we have price pressure, but it also means that there's a lot of opportunity to create better solutions that are valued by payers. We actually see that happening. We've seen it in the past, and we see it happening now, where reimbursement is actually expanding because they kind of see that value in the new solutions or the more advanced solutions. We're also seeing healthcare consumerism play a more important part, where the patients are becoming more of their own advocates, kind of influencing their prosthetic components and devices. We see the industry kind of more moving towards actively influencing the patients. We definitely see also intensifying competition and consolidation throughout the value chain is kind of continuing.
If we look at these growth drivers that we really rely on heavily, it is the inner solutions, which has kind of been the backbone of the growth of the company. The O&P value creation, it is getting more challenging to run an O&P workshop today, and we really need to provide that value to our customers to help them run their business in a profitable way. We are relying more and more on patient reach, going back to kind of the self-care consumerism. Internally, we need to kind of also focus on scalability, and sustainability is also becoming more of an important part of our business. Specifically for bionics, the way we kind of act on these growth drivers and these levers is that we are definitely focused on the big K3, K4 segment. That is the kind of moderately to high-active amputees.
That has been the main segment within bionics, and we are focused on getting more of those patients on our devices and on bionics in general. It is the kind of emerging low-active segment. That is typically this K2 level amputee, where we are seeing expansion of coverage. It started within Europe, Germany mostly, and it has now also come over to the United States. We see that continuing to happen in other markets. We are just really focused on this market space and growing that segment. We also believe that power prosthetics are going to play a more important role in the future. There is a lot of value coming from delivering more active movement through power prosthetics, and we continue to expand that segment.
Service is hugely important, and that is how we also make sure that we kind of deliver value and make doing business with us as a company easier for our customers. Maybe looking at the MPK market specifically in more detail, this market emerged in the early 2000s and has been growing steadily since then. We saw the first microprocessor knees kind of deliver this additional value over mechanical knees, and we saw the payers and reimbursement accept that even if they are significantly more expensive, that value delivered was worth it. We saw an uptick in the reimbursement for the devices in the early 2000s. The market growth here is driven by both expanding coverage and more patients being fitted on bionics, but also kind of higher-level technology being accepted as well.
A good example is the Power Knee that we launched also in the kind of late 2000s and was then accepted for a new reimbursement code in 2012 in the United States. That kind of added maybe 50% roughly reimbursement value on top of what had been paid for the traditional passive MPKs. That is also how the market is growing. We believe this will continue to happen, driven by the low-active market, the powered market, but also this established K3, K4 market, where we believe more and more countries will kind of look at this as standard of care and adopt this going forward. The timing of all of that is, of course, very uncertain, and this is more for kind of illustration purposes, but we believe there is a lot of potential out there to get more patients on these more valuable devices. With that, I will hand it over to Juliet.
Hi everyone. Thank you, Helgi. As a product manager, we are always scanning the market for unmet user needs or problems that they're dealing with that there are not optimized solutions out there to meet those needs. This frames the why behind our new product development. For Navii, there are four different pRheorities or problems that we decided to hone in on. For above-knee amputees, they have just less muscle control with where their amputation has taken place, so they are less secure and stable in challenging activities like going down stairs or hills. Also, the solutions that are out there currently are limited for use in water, so many of our patients are not able to fully participate the way they would like with their prosthetic device.
They are becoming more educated and more demanding in terms of that they are not defined by their prosthesis, but rather have their own identity. They are more design-conscious, are demanding more options for personalization. Furthermore, every bionic device usually comes with an app, but these apps have historically just had very poor engagement and are very limited in terms of how they are able to help both the prosthetist and the user just get the most out of their prosthesis, whether it is training exercises or other benefits. If you look at the different markets, there are some markets that offer functional training with physiotherapists; however, this is few and far between. Most users are fitted on their device and then maybe have a two-hour session in the clinic, and then they are sent off on their way.
They've had to figure out on their own how to get the most out of their prosthesis. These are the problems that we decided to really hone in on with Navii. Klaus, if you can go to the next slide. Just to summarize, the solution we want to offer was a powerful solution that would take away the thinking behind using the device properly in these challenging situations like stairs and ramps. They begin to trust their device to just be there for them without thinking too much about it.
We want to remove the boundary of just waterproofness, just remove it so people can just go and do what they want to do with their device without having to plan for exposure to water and to bring joy in just what their device gives them in terms of just feeling like it belongs to them and it reflects their personality. In addition, we also wanted to expand the suite of functional exercises that helps both the prosthetist guide their users on how best to use their device to get the most out of the device, and also for users to be able to take it home and be motivated to engage with their device to get the most out of it. This frames the why behind Navii. Now, the next slide will give you the next video will give you an introduction to Navii, the product.
Klaus, you can go to the next one. I see we have shared without sound, so maybe afterwards we can share with sound. Thank you, Klaus. We can continue going through this. There are some videos that I think will benefit from the sound, so maybe before we run those videos, we would reshare with the sound. I think that will be quite nice. I will just continue, and then when we get to those slides, we can reshare. Here you see the Össur microprocessor knee portfolio. Many of you are probably familiar with Rheo Knee and Power Knee, and Navii takes its position in the standard MPK segment there in the middle. Together, we provide with this suite, with this portfolio, different benefits to different customer segments, and in that, we provide there's a greater revenue opportunity, and we're positioning ourselves to take market share.
If I start from the left, Rheo Knee is our proven solution in this value segment. It's targeted towards those users that want value for their money that might be financially restricted because of reimbursement. Rheo is positioned against competitor knees like Proteor ALLUX or Pli é or Blatchford's ORheon. Navii is positioned in the standard MPK segment, and in this segment, you will see other devices like Ottobock, Sealeg, or PROTEOR QUATTRO. Where our differentiator is, is that Navii, in addition to providing great safety and stability and function, offers premium benefits of waterproof in any environment, and I will go into that later in the presentation, offering personalizations to different cover options that are accessible for a broader patient population due to the affordable pricing, and also these premium features in the app, which includes functional training.
These benefits are premium benefits and usually not available in the standard space. You get these premium benefits with Navii at a standard price. For Power Knee, you go all the way to the right, and this is our innovation space, high value, but also premium pricing. In here, Power Knee is placing the space with Ripocon's Power Knee named Intuy Knee and the most expensive knee on the market today, which is Ottobock's luxury-priced Genium X3 and X4. That is our portfolio with very distinct value propositions for the value, standard, and innovation segments. You can go to the next one, Klaus. Next slide. Here you have a summary of the user reach that you have with Navii. It is a broad user reach, and Navii takes a subset of this lower-active population who have really benefited from the stability and security that it offers.
When we talk about expanding your world and exploring new places, we're not only referring to those users that want to hike mountains and bike down mountains. We're also referring to users that want to go spend a weekend fishing or at the cottage and go for a dip in the lake with their grandkids or spend an afternoon in the garden doing garden work or not be afraid of the dust and the mud that might get on their prosthesis. Also, those users that are very design-conscious, that are really aware of being able to express themselves personally. Navii allows you to do that with different cover options that are accessible, priced in the same as a shoe, which differentiates us from those other cover options that are out there from third-party vendors, which tend to be quite expensive.
The next slide, Klaus, we can go to that one. I'm wondering if we should reshare this or at least reshare the next slide because I think that one we would like to have with sound. Oh, there you go. You have it. All right. You hear there are waterproof knees out there, and you hear the IP standard often referred to by IP67 or 68. That is correct. They are meeting those international standards. However, when you read the fine print, those standards are only referring to freshwater. If you read the fine print in the instructions for use for these waterproof devices that are currently on the market, they are not suitable for use in corrosive environments like ocean, saltwater, and pool chlorinated water. It negates the warranties that go with these devices.
We, the Navii team, want to ensure that our patients did not have to read the fine print, that waterproof is waterproof whether you are in the pool, whether in the lake, whether you are in the shower, or at the beach. We went through some rigorous testing, as you saw in those videos. I do not know if any of you have been to Iceland. We have basalt sand beaches, so our beaches have black sand. Our engineers imported sand from all over the world to really put the Navii through the rigors to test the rigor of the design. As you saw in the last video to the right, we want to make sure the design was robust, but also really easy for users to wash and maintain the Navii. It is easily washable in the shower or with a garden hose.
There is only one device on the market today that can claim the same level of waterproof, and that is the Ottobock Genium X3 or X4, which I mentioned earlier, which is the most expensive knee on the market in that premium innovation space. We want to bring this benefit of waterproof to broad users in the standard space. We are really excited to be able to do that. Klaus, you can go to the next one. Before we launched Navii globally in January, we underwent a number of pre-launch activities, including running some user tests globally. We ran some pre-market user trials in 18 countries on 67 users. Their prescribed knee was all the knees that are available on the market today that I have mentioned. They were asked to score the performance or their satisfaction of their prescribed knee on a number of parameters.
They were fit with Navii, and they were allowed to go home for a peRheod of time. When they came back, they had scored Navii on those same parameters. The results were incredibly encouraging and exciting. 80% of the test users preferred Navii over their prescribed device. Some comments, particularly on Navii, were the stability it provided while standing and the confidence and security that they felt during these activities of walking and sitting and going up and down stairs. We are really, really excited to get this feedback and to make this amazing product available for more users. That is the introduction we have for our strategy and also the product. Now we would like to invite Gil Crive, one of our Navii users, to give you some insights from the perspective of a user. To introduce him, there is a small video that we will play for you that gives you some insights of where he's coming from. Gil, we'll hand it over to you to take the floor. Klaus, you can play the next.
I have been an amputee since 1962, and I've seen an awful lot of technology changing as I've gone through the years. Hi, my name is Gil, and I am retired here in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, with my wife, Jo, of 43 years. We have two children, a daughter and a son. I call them children, but they're getting older now. We are up here enjoying the good life. Lately, things have been getting better and better as far as I'm concerned, as far as improvement in my life, my ability to live a daily life, a normal daily life.
I'm happy to see that technology is advancing and moving forward for people like myself so that we can do more and live a more normal life than we could before. 62 years of being an amputee, and all of a sudden, my knee takes care of me. That never happened before. It does now. And it's impressive. It really is. To have a knee that knows when you're stumbling or when your heel is higher than your toe, which makes your knee break, in the past, that would put you on your back, seriously. I've been there. With this, it immediately prevents that from happening, and you just walk right over the obstacle. I've never been able to walk right into the water and launch my boat. I've had to be so careful about it. If I fell in the water, I'd be in big trouble with an electronic knee. Now I don't have to worry about it. If I fall in, I fall in. I get back out, and no problem. To me, it's a revelation. I mean, it's not happened in my lifetime. And believe me, that's a long time.
Go ahead, Gil. You can take the floor now.
Oh, thank you. I was fortunate back in 2002 to be one of the first people on the Rheo Knee technology. It just happened that my prosthetist recommended me, and I accepted it. It was the best thing that happened to me in my whole life on prosthetics. It was the first knee that I was ever able to just walk away on and feel stable. Over the years, the Rheos have gotten better and better and been improved.
Now, with the Navii, I think all of the criticisms of the earlier Rheo knees have been taken care of or answered. The Navii now is more free-swinging in tight environments and yet offers more support. When you need it, it offers great stumble recovery. If your knee or your leg stops on an object, it immediately supports you so that you do not fall. That is especially important as at my age, falls can be injuRheous. It is important that I have a knee that takes care of me and makes sure that I do not fall and injure myself, which I do not fall, which is incredible. Being able to get in the water is a huge plus as well. It is just like another step ahead for Össur's products for me. Every time they change things, every time they come out with a new product, it's just that much better. Right now, I honestly can't think of anything that the Navii can't do for a knee of its type. I've been extremely happy with it. I've been on it since last August, and it's been performing very, very well for me. That's about it for me.
Thank you, Gil.
Thank you so much, Gil, Helgi, and Juliet, for your presentations. Gil, happy to hear that this new solution has helped you to live a better life. We will now move over to a Q&A session. If you have any questions, please raise your hand in Teams. While we wait for the questions to come in here, I'll just hand over the word to Jesper, who will ask the first question. Please, Jesper.
Yeah. Thank you so much. I mean, clearly, it sounds like the waterproofing feature is one of the key differentiators with this product. I wonder, Gil, for your sake, have you tried any of the competing knees in the market, bionic knees in the market that offer waterproof features as well in the way that Navii does? Maybe if you could, if you have, you could share a bit of insight to how it differs.
I have been on the C-Leg, but not the waterproof version of the C-Leg. I'm not sure if I could have gotten it approved for me, not being in the military or whatever. I have tried other technologies. I've been on Ottobock technologies, many different kinds over the years, but not a waterproof. I have not tried someone else's waterproof knee.
Okay. Maybe a question for Helgi and Juliet, just sort of on the positioning of the product. I think you mentioned yourself that it sort of falls into the more sort of standard category, which compares with the C-Leg to some extent. Clearly, the waterproof feature is what makes it stand out to some extent, bringing this premium feature for a standard price. Are there any other things you could point out in terms of the features or the positioning of this product relative to some of these products in that category? Maybe also on pricing, especially compared to the Genium that you mentioned yourself, is perhaps the one you should be comparing with when you consider the features that it comes with?
Sure. I can take this one. Helgi, please jump in. Yes, I think you have hit most of these things. We wanted the premium benefits that Navii offers to those not to be limited by reimbursement. When we talk about waterproof, it has been really used freely, and it can be a little bit confusing. We have tried with Navii to educate our customers and our patients about what it means to be waterproof. There are knees out there that claim waterproof, but it is just fresh water. That means that activities like going into a pool or ocean are just not available to you. With that comes a feeling of nervousness that patients just have the psychological barrier of just participating in water. We wanted to remove that so they did not have to be critical about, "Is this the right type of water?" Water is water. In the standard space, we do have C-Leg, and C-Leg is freshwaterproof.
You cannot go into the ocean. You cannot go into the pool. QUATTRO is the same, also waterproof, but similar. On that note, we wanted to differentiate there and offer a premium benefit without the premium pricing in the standard space. Another very important aspect that came out in our research is we looked at what personalization options were out there for microprocessor knees. This is very important to users. I was in a clinical study a few years ago where a user had gotten a custom cover for her device. She was eligible for a new microprocessor knee, but she paid EUR 1,000, I think it was EUR 1,000 for this custom cover for her old device that even though she was eligible and had received a new microprocessor knee, she continued to use her old knee because of the cover.
This is really important to people. We want to make sure that it is not those that just had the financial flexibility to buy expensive covers. Covers go from anywhere from $200 to upwards of $1,000. One of the key things that we want to do with Navii is that users can own multiple covers in different colors, and it would be as accessible as buying a shoe. We want to make sure it was priced affordably for everybody. It does not matter if you have reimbursement or not. You should be able to switch out your cover. Of course, the app features just allow people to get the most out of their device regardless of if they have access to a clinician or not. We feel that this is really important. We want users to get the most out of their Navii, and it shouldn't depend on if they have a prosthetist or a clinician that can guide them through it. Does that answer your question?
Yeah. I don't know if Helgi has anything to add to that or.
Yeah. I mean, I can maybe add a little bit there. Maybe Gil can also speak to it, but I think there are distinct differences in terms of how Navii and other hydraulic microprocessor knees feel. We, I think, excel in having this really free movement. It kind of feels really easy to initiate swings, so take a step. It feels really natural. With the Navii, we emphasized really also improving on the stability. It feels both really free and also very stable when you need it to. I think that feels distinctly different than maybe other competitive microprocessor knees. It's somewhat difficult to pinpoint exactly what it is, but of course, the underlying function is a bit different. I think this is also important to users. I'm not sure, Gil, if you can maybe speak to how you kind of how this feels to you.
That's the one thing that I won't do without is the fact that both the Rheo and the Navii, when you deweight them, you take your weight off of them, they are in free swing. Whereas like the C-Leg or any of the hydraulic ones that I'm aware of, when you take your weight off, they go into what they call stance, which they won't bend, which makes it difficult when you're walking in tight spaces like everyone does at home.
You're on a stiff leg unless you have a Rheo or a Navii because they're very free swinging when we do what we call café walking, little tiny steps in your kitchen or around the house. It's so nice to be able to just walk and not have a stiff knee. That to me is very, very important. Yet, if you put your weight on a bent knee, the Navii immediately supports you. You can actually put all your weight on a bent knee, which is pretty impressive. It holds you up, and you can just keep walking. I think everybody stumbles every once in a while as well. If you stumble, the Navii immediately catches you, which is incredible to me. It never misses a beat. Being in free swing when you deweight it is critical for me personally.
Great path. I can just remind everyone that if you have any questions, please raise your hand in Teams. I could jump in with a question here, perhaps. Helgi, I think it was you or was it Juliet showing a picture with the portfolio of bionic knees to the left, the Rheo Knee, and to the right, the Power Knee, and with the Navii in between? Do you feel that you have the right product assortment within your bionic knee assortment to harvest the full potential of the expanded coverage, which was implemented in the U.S. here? I think it was in September last year. Would you want to have perhaps a slightly less expensive knee in your portfolio? Or have you simply just lowered the price of the Rheo Knee to have a somewhat less expensive product in your assortment? By the way, you did not show your Icon on this chart, but that was my question. Thank you.
Do you want to start, Juliet?
Sure. And then we can tag team this. We are learning, just as I think the market is learning about this, the low active coverage in the U.S. We have seen the uptake of it quite modest because even our customers out there are understanding the right users to fit into this space who would have the most success. We have options for some of these users, but we are learning as the market is on what that user profile exactly is. In terms of the segments you have, it is value and standard and innovation, but there are also other ways to segment the market. In the low active segment, we see in there a few knees coming in. Navii and Rheo play there in some measure. As the market matures, just as we have seen in the past with the market opening up for higher active users, we will see the same going. Maybe Helgi, you can add to that.
Yeah. Yeah. Sure. I definitely agree with Juliet. I think we're definitely learning here how this kind of market will develop. I think being product people, we always see opportunities to be more targeted. We definitely are always looking at new opportunities. I think the devices we have, especially with the Navii, play really well with this broad user group. We need to be able to accommodate very different reimbursements, both within even a country like the U.S., where you have quite a wide range of reimbursement, everything from Medicaid that is quite limited through Medicare Advantage plans throughout Medicare, which is kind of a fairly robust and good reimbursement, and then up through VA and DOD. We need to be able to kind of play with this broad user population in all of these places. It looks different than in other countries. I think we're in a pretty good space at the moment. Like I said, we want to further develop the low active market and further develop the powered market as well.
Would you want to have an even lower priced bionic knee in your assortment?
I think we don't see a need to lower the price further at this moment. I think the reimbursement kind of exists for this level that we have now. We are absolutely looking at repositioning or kind of moving Rheo to more of a value space with the introduction of Navii. That's clear. I think we're covering it well with that repositioning.
How much would you foresee to, you say, reposition Rheo knee? What kind of percentage are we talking about?
I think it differs a bit between markets, but we could maybe say something like 20%, very broadly speaking. It would definitely not look exactly the same in Germany as in the United States, but that could be some kind of, yeah, rough guide. We, of course, have the Icon through College Park as well. That's a kind of a similar value offering, but leveraging the more kind of standard hydraulic technology that is accepted by other O&P customers.
That would still leave a price difference. Even if you lower the price of Rheo, it would still leave a price difference down to Icon.
Yeah. That is kind of how we are seeing that. I am more specifically talking about the United States. It might look a bit different in Germany there, for example.
Helgi, you mentioned in the beginning of the call that you are also seeing increased competition. From where?
We see competition coming in from smaller entrants. Juliet mentioned one with a Ripocon knee, with an Intuy knee from Ripocon, sorry. We are also seeing even newer entrants like the Kneuro Knee. That is a company called Brain Robotics, which kind of is a joint venture between the U.S. and China. I think it is mostly originating from China. We're seeing some of these smaller companies that are focused on maybe just providing one or maybe two products. They definitely are kind of trying to come and disrupt the market a bit, but they also struggle with not having necessarily the same reach into the O&P channel as we and [guess] and some of the bigger players have with just that larger sales footprint on the ground. That's probably their challenge. They're definitely trying to kind of find their place in the market.
Do you think that would put pressure on you to own more distributors in order to control the distribution chain?
I'm not sure that is necessarily kind of what I think the challenge is. I think the challenge is really if they will disrupt the kind of floor price of the market. We're looking at what we can do to counter that. We definitely do not want to go down in some sort of a price fight spiral. I think that's not going to help anyone. That's definitely with a smaller entrant like this. That's always going to be a risk.
Yes, would you have any additional questions here?
Yeah, maybe a question for the slide that you have on the market expansion. It seems like you're expecting the market for MPKs to almost double within the next seven or so years. Clearly, you show the low active MPKs, so the K2 being a key part of that. Could you maybe explain a bit more about the assumptions behind that outlook and also how much of that, especially when it comes to the K2 segment, you expect to be driven by the changes in Medicare in the U.S.?
Yeah. Definitely, a big part of it is coming from that. That is just kind of in the beginning stages. What we have seen in the past is that Medicare kind of starts this, and then we will see private payers jump on board. It is usually a few years later. It is difficult to know exactly how this will pan out, but that is kind of the working assumption. I think we will see definitely a big contribution from the United States in that growth. I think there will be other markets that will also follow suit.
That's something similar we saw when the kind of K3, K4 market was growing, that when this becomes more of a standard of care in countries like the United States, you see other Western countries follow. I think the other growth element here is just the emerging markets or the Global South or whatever we want to kind of call it. There are just huge populations there that currently have very, very little adoption of bionic technology. I think it's only a matter of time when they adopt this because it is demonstrated that it's more beneficial in the big picture to use this better technology. When exactly they will do that and at what rate is very, very difficult to predict. This is kind of one scenaRheo we're trying to depict where they will kind of more and more start adopting this.
The third element is, of course, again, also uncertain, but that is how much technology trade that we see with standard MPKs to powered prosthetics. We already see competitors coming in there. I think there is definitely demand for this, and the opportunity is there. The key here is really to deliver enough value that kind of convinces people to move over and use the technology. That is a few thoughts I have on that. Of course, it is quite speculative, but we are trying to base it on what we know from the past and kind of extrapolate into the future.
All right. Maybe just coming back to Navii specifically. It obviously seems to be positioned more towards active users. I know it's early days for this product, but in terms of the durability of this product, is the replacement cycle somewhat shorter, or how should we think of this product relative to, you could say, existing MPKs on the market?
I can take that. Navii has a service life comparable to other products, which is six years. In there, there is one maintenance cycle that we ask at 40 months. It's similar to what we have currently. In terms of durability, the aggressiveness of what we allow people to expose their knee to, whenever a knee comes into service, we serve it to the point where it performs like a new device. For Navii, what you get is not just the product, but the service that comes with it. That is something that is a priority for us as a company.
It was one of those growth drivers that Helgi actually mentioned in his previous slide for that customer experience is not just with their product, but with the service that they get from a certain Embla with their bionic device. From preliminary, our surveys show that we are doing quite well from our customers who have given us really great feedback on their service experience, but there's always opportunity to improve. In terms of service, Navii doesn't require more service than other devices, and it has the same service life as other devices comparatively.
Just to add really quickly on that, I think from our quite rigorous testing we've done also on durability, I think we can see that Navii is more durable, generally speaking, than, for example, the Rheo Knee, which I think is already quite considered the durable knee as compared to other MPKs available. I think Navii is definitely upping that game. Of course, with allowing people to go into salt and chlorinated water and sand and all of that, you might also introduce more challenging environments that kind of counter that. I think just apples to apples comparison, I think it's more durable than the Rheoni in my mind. That's what internal testing at least shows.
We have a question from [guess].
Yeah. It's just one of the first slides. I was a bit surprised that you showed the share of bionics, and it was 20-25% of it if it was the same in the last three years. I'm just a bit surprised that there haven't been any development there, that bionics haven't gained share of your overall revenue. Just if you could, it's because you like the products or the price of the products. Perhaps also a question to Gil actually, because how did you get aware of the Navii? What that could do for you? I mean, what was the sales pitch for you? How did you learn about Navii? Thanks.
Oops, sorry. I was muted. I can maybe speak to it, the first part of the question. To be fair, it's a bit volatile, like the exact proportion of bionics to our total prosthetic sales. We're not kind of specifically calling it out. We saw in this timeframe, early on, a huge uptake in Navii. We got a lot of growth there. We continuously grow, but it's a little bit less than it was before. Now we see growth in Navii. It does fluctuate a bit from year to year. I think we believe that the overall trend is strongly upwards there, but over these particular years, there's maybe not been a huge shift. It's gone up and down a bit. The trend is definitely there towards the future. Before we launched the Navii, and throughout that launch, we saw really good growth. Maybe Gil, you can speak to how you learned about and kind of what the pitch was to you.
For Navii, because I have such a long history with the Rheo, I was one of the original clinical trial people back in 2002. I have been fortunate to have a Rheo ever since then of vaRheous different vintages. It's been such a great knee for me, and I don't have to send it in. It's extremely durable. It doesn't break down. I have never had a Rheo catastrophically fail in all these years, and I'm kind of hard on them. If I do notice a change in my Rheo that may need service, I have another backup Rheo the very next day. That kind of service is incredible to me. I know it's not inexpensive to ship things, but also backs things up to the hill. The Rheo and the Navii, so far, I've never needed to do anything to them. I just get up every day and use them, and they don't wear out. They don't leak. They don't do anything. The durability, to me, that's very important over any of the hydraulic knees because they do break down if you're hard on them. I've had great luck with it. The Navii is another step ahead.
It allows you to walk normally, which if you watch, I go to conventions every once in a while for O&P and just talk to people. If you just observe people's gait, you can always spot a C-Leg user. With the Rheo and the Navii, you can walk normally and naturally, which is really important to me, at least. I would think it would be important that most prosthetic users do not want to draw attention to the way they walk. They want to walk like everyone else. The Rheo, the Navii, that technology allows you to smoothly walk at all different speeds flawlessly. That is one of the reasons I would not have any other kind of a technology than the Rheologic technology. Navii is just that much better.
Thanks.
Sounds great. We have time for just one more question. I don't know, Jesper, if you have any additional questions.
I think most have been covered from my side. I don't know if anyone else on the line has any questions or Nils, if you have any last one.
Yeah. Sounds great. We have spent 57 minutes here, so time is about to run out here. I think we will round off here. Very exciting to hear your thoughts around your launch of Navii and your innovation strategy. It goes without doubt that Embla has a very strong product offering in this bionic knee segment. With the launch of Navii, you have an even stronger offering in this very promising segment. With these words, thank you so much, Helgi, Juliet, and not least, Gil, for participating in this call. I know it's very early for you, Gil. Thank you very much for participating in this call. If you have any additional questions, please feel free to reach out to DNB Carnegie, Jesper, or me, or of course, reach out to Klaus, Head of Investor Relations at Embla Medical. With these words, thank you very much for participating. Have a great day.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.