Thank you for joining the DEME Half Year 2024 Results Call. Kindly be informed that today's call is being recorded. At this time, we are assembling today's audience and plan to begin shortly. We appreciate your patience, and please remain on the line. Thank you.
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I am Karel Van Den Bussche, Head of Investor Relations for DEME, and it is my pleasure to welcome you to DEME's Half Year 2024 Analyst and Investor Earnings Call. We are really pleased to see a diverse group of analysts and investors from various countries participating in today's conference call and/or webcast. Joining me today are Luc Vandenbulcke, our CEO, and Stijn Gaytant, our CFO. I'd like to extend a warm welcome to both gentlemen, with a special greeting to Stijn on his first earnings call following his appointment as DEME's new CFO, succeeding Els Verbruggen. Both Luc and Stijn will take you through the presentation on our half year results. The presentation will be visible on screen during the webcast and is also accessible on DEME's Investor Portal, which has been made available since this morning.
Agenda for the presentation is displayed on slide two. Luc will kick it off with an exec summary, after which both Stijn and Luc will provide some extra color on the group results of the first half year, the segment performance, and some words on DEME's progress in the ESG domain to then wrap up with the outlook. After the presentation, we will open up for a Q&A round, where you will have the opportunity to ask questions to our management team. That's it for the introduction. I give the floor now to Luc, who will kick it off from slide three onwards.
Thank you, Karel, and good morning, everyone. It's nice to see you all joining us today. And, of course, we assume that you, most of you start to know who we are and how we are structured. Just a brief recap on slide number three here regarding DEME's activities, and we will briefly outline our four core segments. Offshore energy and dredging & infra make up our two main segments, and they were responsible for 43% - 48% of turnover, respectively, in the first half of 2024. The environmental segments account for 9% of our turnover in the first half, and our concession segment oversees a diverse portfolio, and of course, unlike our three contracting segments, does not contribute to our top line, but to the net profit.
In the first half of this year, it contributed EUR 11 million to the net profit. Now I'm delighted to share DEME's record results for the first half of the year with you. It's particularly pleasing to see that we have sustained the momentum from the second half of 2023, and we got it translated into these record results. These results demonstrate the high activity levels across all of our segments, and of course, they highlight the hard and effective work of our entire global DEME team. We closed the first half with a very strong order book, standing at EUR 7.6 billion, and that matches the peak levels of the last four quarters. The group turnover increased 30% year over year to EUR 1.9 billion, with double-digit growth in all of our contracting segments.
EBITDA amounted to EUR 345 million, and EBITDA margin was 18%, up from 15% for the first half of 2023, and that's largely due to strong gains in our two main segments. As a result, also net profit surged, and that to EUR 141 million, compared to EUR 30 million a year ago. Fueled by a combination of higher profits, a lower investment level, and a stable operating working capital, free cash flow amounted to EUR 278 million in the first six months, and that compares to negative EUR 178 million a year ago. This has also resulted in halving the net debt, and this to EUR 352 million from EUR 715 million in 2023.
In line with our estimates at the start of the year, our investment level was lower year-on-year, and it amounted to EUR167 million , and that compared to EUR 216 million for the same period in 2023. We added the Yellowstone, the largest fall pipe vessel in the world, and the Karina, an offshore survey vessel to our fleet, and we expanded the capacity of our cable layer, Viking Neptune, alongside targeted maintenance investments. Given these strong results for the first half, and with progress ahead of schedule, we have raised our turnover outlook for the full year from an anticipated growth of at least 10% to now a revenue growth of around 20%, representing a record turnover for 2024, with an EBITDA margin comparable to 2023.
For the next few years, we have refined our outlook based on some updated parameters, such as the acceleration we saw in 2024, the order book status, the pipeline, and our vessel capacity. We have come to a more balanced approach, signaling a top line that is expected to stay somewhat more in line with the 2024 anticipated level. I will now hand over to Stijn, who will outline the financial highlights in more detail.
Welcome to all of you stakeholders joining today's earnings call. As your call guide today, I will elaborate on the key financial highlights for the first half year, focusing on order book, turnover, profitability, CapEx, and net financial debt, to round off with the first flavor of this segment's financial performance. After which, Luc will further go in depth accordingly, and while you've been able to have a glimpse of the hopper barge river employed on the River Elbe in Germany, we can move on to the key financial highlights. The now shown overview on the left, where we compare the half-year figures of 2024 and 2023, complemented with the year-end figures of 2023, visualizes what DEME has delivered in the first half of 2024. We can actually repeat our comment of the last earnings call. We can't just say solid, strong results.
It's much more than that, and as Luc has already mentioned during the executive summary, the first half-year figures of 2024 clearly exemplify the continuation of DEME's performance in the last six months of 2023. The current presented figures show a clear year-on-year growth in all of our key figures. So also from my side, credits to continued dedication of all the DEME colleagues. Now, some figures to strengthen the above statements are, and we've highlighted them here on the right side, an order book of EUR 7.6 billion and stable for several quarters, in combination with record high turnovers the last twelve months. Turnover for the first half year, specifically of EUR 1.9 billion, up 30% from EUR 1.5 billion first half year 2023, with all segments contributing. More importantly, profitability increased even more.
EBITDA of EUR 345 million increased by 55%, up to a margin of 18%. EBIT of EUR 150 million even increased by 163%, up to EBIT margin of 7.8, as compared to 3.9 first half year 2023. And to top it off, a net profit of EUR 141 million increased by 370% to a profit margin of 7.4, compared to 2% year on year. The main driver of the strong profitability performance remained high activity levels and effective project execution. The variables like operational excellence and beneficial weather conditions kept triggering productivity and progress consistently, also the first six months of 2024.
Now, in order to achieve such excellent results, an important element, next to, of course, our crew and staff, are our state-of-the-art assets, which makes the bridge to the CapEx topic. CapEx in first half year 2024 was good for EUR 167 million, and it mainly reflects the latest expansion of the fleet, in addition to conversion modifications and maintenance. Current CapEx level nicely evolving within the guidance provided for this year. Already mentioned by Luc, but an important highlight is the very positive free cash flow of EUR 271 million for the first half of the year, compared to -EUR 178 million year on year.
Boosted by such a strong first half year, the DEME financials remain at a very healthy level, with a significant reduction, halving of the net financial debt to -EUR 352 million, compared to first half 2023 of -EUR 750 million. As a result, our net financial debt divided by EBITDA is now only 0.5, compared to 1.4, first half year of 2023, and 0.9 for end of 2023. Moving on to the order book comparison on the left graph, with the order book first half 2024 ending at EUR 7.6 billion, the splits per segment clearly visualizes we maintain a really balanced and diversified order book. This reconfirms that all operational segments, including also environmental, are capable of having a fill rate that can offset the backlog into turnover.
Small reduction of 4% in order book of dredging and infra is compensated for by the other two operational segments. On the graph in the middle, showing the geographical breakdown first half year 2024, we notice increases in Asia, like the Greater Changhua and Fengmiao projects in Taiwan and the Middle East. The Oxagon project offset the decrease in percentage on Africa and the Americas. Order book in the Americas went down compared to first half 2023, mainly due to the high activity on the projects in the U.S. the last twelve months, resulting in an order book conversion into turnover, with limited additions to the order book for the America region. Europe still counts for more than 60% of the overall order book, as was the case year on year as well. It confirms the importance of our home market.
Overall, DEME maintains a high-quality order book with visibility for the next two to three years. On the graph on the far right, we provide the order book run-off for the coming years, where we expect a remaining run-off for the second half of 2024 of EUR 2.04 billion. To clarify, this overview is based on segment reporting. It means based on proportional figures, so a reconciliation is needed to convert these to actual equity turnover for the group. The main element is the reconciliation of our joint venture in Taiwan. As a conclusion, and I would like to emphasize, we maintain a high-quality order book for an extended period of time, knowing that the last consecutive twelve months, DEME had a combined realized turnover of EUR 3.7 billion. It showcases again, the continuity, the competitiveness, and the performance of all the DEME segments.
Moving to the breakdown of turnover, as was already mentioned, a positive trend of + 30%. The segment breakdown in the middle teaches us the following: There is an increase in turnover year on year for the offshore energy segment, reaching EUR 0.9 billion or + 37%. The dredging and infra segment, reaching nearly EUR 1 billion turnover or +39%, and the environmental business ending up with EUR 0.17 billion or realizing + 22%. Conclusion: strong double-digit growth across the board in all of our contracting segments. Now, when observing the geographic breakdown on a year-on-year basis on the right, you notice that both Asia and Africa remain pretty stable in their relative contribution. Additional works in the Middle East and a slightly heavier weight of Europe nicely compensated for the decline in the U.S.
This is related to the project phasing of both the Vineyard Wind and Coastal Virginia project. It reconfirms also that Europe, with 66%, remains an important market for the group, as was also our conclusion on the order book. As I already mentioned in my introduction, our profitability for first half 2024 outperforms the turnover growth, with EBITDA going up 55% year on year, reaching an EBITDA margin of 18%, coming from 15%. Dredging and infra is leading here, with an EBITDA margin of 19%, while EBITDA of offshore energy improved year on year from 12% to now 18%. For the sake of completeness, I'm sharing that EBITDA in 2023 for offshore energy was impacted by the specific project losses on two projects. EBIT goes up 163% to EUR 150 million and is reaching nearly 8%.
Higher depreciations and impairments do clearly not impact on the EBIT margin, confirming that recent additions contribute to increased growth and profitability. The net profit is ending up at EUR 141 million, with the earnings per share amounting to EUR 5.58, compared to EUR 1.19 year on year. The next overview represents the key figures once more, but we will now focus a bit on the evolution of the depreciation and impairments. In the first half of 2024, we reached an amount of EUR 195 million as compared to EUR 165 million year on year. The increase is mainly due to the depreciation of the conversion of the Sea Installer, which only kicked in from quarter three 2023 onwards. The Sea Installer, which you can see in all its glory on the presented picture, actually.
Specific equipment of the Orion used for our projects in the U.S. The Yellowstone started contributing to the depreciations in quarter two of 2024, and we have the impact of IFRS 16 leases. On the topic of the financial results, you will remember that the results of first half 2023, which were -EUR 30 million, were impacted by unrealized exchange rate losses on deposits in local currencies. Today, we see the opposite effect, where the financial result sees a positive impact of currency differences. To conclude, the key elements on the share of profit for joint ventures and associates. You will notice a positive EUR 90 million contribution, which is a combination of positive amounts of the associates, mainly driven by DEME concessions. In addition, we now also have the positive results of some of our joint ventures.
It confirms, among others, that are set up in Taiwan, and the investment in the green chain are contributing now since beginning of 2024 equally as well. Before we go to the segments, a few words on our group CapEx, where the graph shows the evolution over the last seven years. From the graph, we can see that after 2022, the reduced but clearly continued investments in our technologically advanced fleet prove also a very stable net book value compared to first half of 2023, where we had the peak level also in our CapEx of around EUR 500 million in 2022.
First half-year CapEx mainly consists of ongoing maintenance investments in the entire DEME fleet, increased capacity of our cable laying vessel, Viking Neptune, more investments for the conversion of the Yellowstone, which you can actually see on the right, a great shot taken of it recently, and the addition of the Karina. Relating to our balance sheet items, our net financial debt, cash and working capital figures are very well under control, and they also keep improving. Please keep in mind that for these cash and debt positions, the Green Jade, our DP3 offshore vessel within our joint venture in Taiwan, is not included in this figure, nor are the cash and debt of our investment in associates and joint ventures that are consolidated according to the equity method.
We realized a free cash flow before dividend of EUR 278 million, mainly thanks to strong profitability, a lower investment level, and a stable level of operating working capital relative to the turnover. As mentioned before, but I still want to emphasize again, the financial debt massively improved to -EUR 352 million, compared with the first half of 2023 figure of -EUR 715 million, leading to a very healthy net financial debt over EBITDA ratio of 0.5. Attached, we also have a very nice example of our vessels, the Living Stone of the offshore segment and the Bonny River of the dredging and infra segment, working jointly on an assignment.
Now, while Luc will take over after this overview and give you more in-depth business and operational insights and updates, I will share some financial details already on the segments itself. We mentioned that the increase in the group turnover was mainly driven and in continuation of the high activity as from quarter three 2023 onwards. This was strengthened by favorable variables, solid execution, and no major loss-making projects, resulting in an increased profitability. As the top left graph shows, this on all of our operational segments. For the offshore segment, some additional remarks. The combined impact of the expanded capacity in the recent two years, the Orion, Green Jade, Viking Neptune, and converted Sea Installer, with high activity levels resulting in a higher turnover.
On the matter of EBITDA and EBIT, in the first half of this year, we clearly delivered well, resulting in excellent outcomes on the majority of our projects and translating it in an increased profitability for the offshore energy. For the dredging and infra segments, there as well, the higher occupancy explains a substantial increase in turnover of 39%. An EBITDA of 19%, which are robust figures for the segment, which one can also notice when comparing with the 14% of the year-on-year comparison. EBIT of almost 8%, amongst others, supported by high EBITDA, with little increase in depreciation. The environmental projects, solid execution procedures, results in historically higher results. Of course, considering an exceptional favorable impact of a settlement on the completed project in the Benelux in 2023, which obviously is not applicable in the first half of 2024.
The concession segment, where we mainly step into concessions when there is a clear scope for any of our three operational segments. This setup clearly works when looking at the following. Since the start, substantial contracting revenue, as well as the value of projects, have seen a steady increase. To date, own equity invested and loans now stands at EUR 230 million. The combination of the above initiatives, so both on the offshore wind farms and the infrastructure, generates a recurring income in the first half year of EUR 11 million. This is lower compared to twelve months ago, which was helped by a combination of strong winds, high energy prices, and a one-off related to a change in the Belgian legislation.
The biggest turnaround can be found in the combined share of profits of joint ventures and associates, which now contributes EUR 90 million compared to the EUR 3 million of twelve months ago. To conclude, from my side, I can state I'm an extremely proud CFO for what the company has achieved the first six months.
Thank you very much, Stijn. Now, on the backdrop, you see our foundation installation vessel, Orion, and it's at work on the Moray West project. I will now delve a little deeper into the performance of our four segments. Let's start with offshore. Offshore energy continues to have a very solid order book. It stood at EUR 4.003 billion, which is up from EUR 3.892 billion a year ago, and EUR 3.755 billion at the end of 2023.
The order book was fueled by several major new contract awards, which will run over the following years, and they include two large cable installation projects from Prysmian for the IJmuiden Ver Alpha and Nederwiek 1 offshore grid systems in the Netherlands, as well as a big export cable project for the Belgian Princess Elisabeth Island. The DEME JV in Taiwan also expanded its order book to include foundation works for the Fengmiao project. As Stijn already touched on these numbers, revenue climbed 37% year over year, driven by solid demand, expansion of the fleet, and a robust project execution. Offshore energy maintained high activity levels, with high fleet utilization across different projects.
24 weeks in the first half of the year, consistent with the second half of last year, and that fueled a strong EBITDA, with the margin up to 18% compared to the 12% in the first half of 2023. DEME welcomed Yellowstone to its fleet, the world's largest fall pipe vessel, illustrative how we take a long-term view and anticipate future customer demand. This fall pipe vessel is particularly suited to projects further from shore and when longer distances are involved. Yellowstone will commence operations in the third quarter of the year. It will start in Europe, and then it will move to the U.S. We also welcomed Karina, an offshore survey vessel, and we have put it into operation during the first half of this year already.
Additional vessel improvements include installing a second cable turntable on the Viking Neptune, and that vessel will install inter-array cables for Dogger Bank B project in the U.K. throughout the remainder of the year. We have some of the key projects here on slide 17, and they also, I think, nicely illustrate our coverage across the globe in the offshore wind sector. In the U.K., offshore energy successfully completed the foundation works for the Moray West offshore wind farm, and they finalized the inter-array cabling works for both Dogger Bank A and the Neart na Gaoithe projects. Meanwhile, in France, they have concluded the wind turbine installation for the Fécamp offshore wind farm, and we kicked off the Île d'Yeu and Noirmoutier project, installing monopiles, a jacket, and a substation during the first half.
In Asia, DEME's JV completed the installation of jacket foundations for the Zhong Neng project in Taiwan, achieving already first power on time. The JV then kicked off the Hai Long project with its new offshore installation vessel, Green Jade, and successfully installed the first jacket and topsides for the substation, as well as all the pin piles already, and that were scheduled for this season, and that is all in line with the plan. In the US.., offshore energy continued installing turbines for the Vineyard Wind project, and we successfully commenced the multi-year Coastal Virginia Offshore Wind project for Dominion Energy, and that on schedule, installing the first of the hundred and seventy-six in total planned monopiles. Then we go to dredging and infra.
Amounting to about EUR 3.3 billion , dredging and infra's order book remained robust and registered a healthy intake of diverse range of projects, nearly matching the conversion of order book into turnover. Noteworthy achievements in the first half include an exemplary coastal protection program in Grand-Lahou, in Ivory Coast, Côte d'Ivoire. The expansion of a container port in Malaysia, a series of projects in Italy for the ports of Naples, Cagliari, and Augusta, and a notable maintenance project for London Gateway in Europe. Now, turnover, at almost EUR 1 billion, climbed nearly 40% when we compare it to the same period of last year. The performance was mainly driven by a variety of projects, including capital and maintenance dredging, as well as some large-scale infrastructure works.
EBITDA margin increased, and this to 19% for the first six months, up from 14% for the first half in 2023. Vessel occupancy for both the hopper and the cutter suction dredger fleet increased compared to the first and second half of last year, driven by recent contract wins and an effective planning of the fleet. On to slide 20, we give it here, a bit more color with some of our key projects in the first half of 2024. Closer to home, we made good progress in constructing the tunnel elements for the Scheldetunnel, which is part of the Oosterweel connection project in Antwerp. For the Princess Elisabeth Island, the first caissons are being built in Flushing. You can see that on, in the picture, at the top there, and the marine works have started, including seabed preparation and foundation layer installation.
The energy island is a world's first, and it will become the cornerstone of a European high-voltage grid at sea. And I said before, DEME's offshore energy segment won during first half of 2024, also the large subsea cabling contract to connect that energy island with the Belgian offshore electricity grid. Other noteworthy infrastructure projects with milestones in the first half of 2024 include the opening of the Rijnland Route and the Blankenburg and New Lock Terneuzen projects that are now completing, nearing completion. In Denmark, the Fehmarnbelt Tunnel project is progressing, with the first tunnel element inaugurated by the King of Denmark in Q2 of this year. In the dredging activity, we continued working on multi-year maintenance contracts in Belgium, in Germany, making sure that some of the most important ports in Europe remain accessible.
In Germany, the segment is working on widening the Kiel Canal, and in the U.K., the segment secured a new contract to maintain the access channel to London Gateway Port along the River Thames, following the successful completion of a berth construction. In France, next to the rock dredging works at La Pallice, La Rochelle, that is, the team also continued the deepening works at Port-La-Nouvelle. At the same port, the civil works advanced to the next phase with the construction of a new jetty. A bit further afield, in West Africa, dredging and infra initiated a coastal protection project, as I mentioned before already, in Ivory Coast, and the segment remains active with land reclamation works in Nigeria and maintenance dredging projects in Congo, Angola, Gabon, and Guinea.
Then going to the Middle East, we continued capital dredging and land reclamation works at the Abu Qir project in Egypt, while in Abu Dhabi, multiple of our hopper and cutter suction dredgers were busy for the Port of Oxagon in Saudi Arabia, a large multi-year project awarded late 2023, that was. The dry excavation works are advancing well, and that's in anticipation of the upcoming cutter suction dredging works. And finally, in India, we're strengthening our presence with multiple port maintenance projects ongoing on both the east and the west coast of the country. Now we are moving to our environmental segment with a nice picture here of a large environmental project in the U.K. That is the Bowling project. Turnover for our,
Turnover for our environmental segment increased 22% compared to the same period last year, and it stands now at EUR 175 million . The top-line growth was fueled by ongoing work on long-term and complex remediation and flood defense projects in Belgium, in the Netherlands, in the U.K., and Norway. Environmental's order book remained healthy and stable at around EUR 330 million in the first half, from that was around EUR 326 million a year ago. EBITDA for the first half of 2024 was EUR 23 million, with an EBITDA margin of 13%, down from 23% a year ago. But mind you, the EBITDA result in 2023, as Stijn already mentioned, was favorably impacted by a one-off settlement.
With decades of experience in handling polluted brownfield sites, DEME Environmental is really well-positioned to leverage its expertise for redevelopment and is actively continuing to explore targeted opportunities in Italy and the U.K. The segment has recently signed a long-term contract for the reconversion of a former ArcelorMittal site near Liège, a project which we will be doing in collaboration with public and private partners. In Belgium, you can see a number of key projects here. In Belgium, the main ongoing projects are Bluegate and Oosterweel in the Antwerp region, Feluy and Cokerie du Brabant, and commencing in 2016, the redevelopment of the Bluegate project in Antwerp, which is a sixty-six-hectare site, is now moving into its next phase, and that is the full-scale development of the site.
In a highly complex remediation project at a former fuel terminal near Glasgow, DEME Environmental has advanced well, with the vast majority of the material now being cleaned and reused. With an area of 41 hectares, this is one of the largest remediation sites in the U.K. In the Netherlands, we are further expanding our footprint on major dike reinforcement projects, part of the Netherlands, what we call the National Flood Protection Program, and other projects such as GoWa, the Sterke Lekdijk, and now also around the historic island of Marken. Let's finally move to our concession segment with a view on the project of Port-La-Nouvelle. The concession segment delivered a net result of EUR 11 million.
The first half of 2024 saw relatively high wind production, but meets with a challenging first half comparison base, which compared to 2023, which benefited from a combination of a buoyant wind generation, higher electricity prices, and as you remember, a one-off result from a new legislation in Belgium. In offshore, the concession segment remains its stakes in operational wind farms that have a total installed capacity of more than one gigawatt. Additionally, the segment continues working on the 2 GW ScotWind concession and is preparing for, as we have announced, the upcoming tenders in Belgium. For dredging and infrastructure, concessions maintained its focus on projects both in its portfolio but also under construction, and they include the Blankenburg Connection in the Netherlands, the Port-La-Nouvelle port project in France, and the Port of Duqm in Oman.
As well as exploring new opportunities, the team continued working on the preliminary awarded project for the construction and operation of a new deepwater terminal, and that is for the Port of Świnoujście in Poland. Then we have the longer-term growth initiatives in the concessions agreement, in the concessions segment, I mean. DEME, DEME's HyPort Energy is advancing its position to be amongst the first in the world to produce green molecules from renewable energy. In July, DEME and OQ announced a strategic partnership with energy giant BP. In this partnership, BP becomes an equity partner and an operator of our flagship green hydrogen project called HYPORT Duqm , acquiring a 49% stake, while OQ and DEME each retain a 25.5% share.
HyPort Energy also struck a new cooperation agreement with the Egyptian government, and that to study a next industrial-scale green hydrogen project in the Gargoub port area. And Global Sea Mineral Resources, you know, our subsidiary focusing on the responsible deep sea minerals sector, they remain actively engaged in the legislative process and progress, which is going on at the International Seabed Authority. Then let's move on from our four segments, and I would like to shed some light on some of the key achievements in our ESG and our safety performance. Firstly, environmental. So DEME advanced its strategy to promote the transition to clean energy during the first semester, doing installation works, as you have seen, for offshore wind farms projects now in Europe, in Asia, and in the U.S.
We have been touching on these projects, of course, in the offshore segments. In its large infra activity, DEME is involved in construction of the longest immersed road and rail tunnel in the world, which is the Fehmarnbelt Fixed Link project between Denmark and Germany. The tunnel will foster sustainable trade and tourism, reducing travel time and facilitating green transport by the use of electric freight trains. As mentioned before, the same segment also started already now the building of the first caissons for the Princess Elisabeth Island here in Belgium. Finally, DEME remains actively engaged in long-term renewable energy initiatives, including the production and storage of green hydrogen. The main milestone we mentioned already before was the announcement in July of the strategic operation with BP for the ongoing green hydrogen project in Oman, the HyPort Energy Duqm.
The company has also set an ambitious target regarding its energy efficiency within its operations, and we are focusing on three strategic pillars: the operational efficiency, technical efficiency, and the shift to more sustainable fuels. The newly added Yellowstone vessel that adheres to all three pillars is the industry-first dual-fuel fall pipe vessel. It fully complies with the latest emission standards, and it is prepared for green methanol. It's also equipped with a hybrid power plant and a waste heat recovery system to further optimize our energy efficiency. On the social dimension, DEME continue to invest in retaining and attracting talent to support the DEME's short- and long-term growth, with the most prominent initiatives called our Where Next campaign, and that is an international employer branding and recruitment program that includes targeted career days and participation in job fairs and other kinds of events.
As part of our commitment to safety, the group has held its annual safety week, and we initiated the Safety Success Stories campaign. Later on the year, in the second half, we will have our dedicated safety moment day. I would also like to mention a number of governance aspects. During the annual general meeting, the shareholders approved the appointment of Miss Gaëlle Hotellier and Miss Marieke Schöning as independent directors. We welcome them on our board. This will bring the total numbers of female board directors to four, four out of a total of 11, elevating the gender diversity of the board to 36% female representation. Regarding the changes in our executive committee, as Carl mentioned, Stijn, our new CFO, succeeded Els Verbruggen in May and became member of the executive committee. Appointing Stijn was clearly the right decision.
The transition between Els and Stijn was well managed, and we are really fully confident that Stijn will excel in his future endeavors as DEME's CFO. And lastly, regarding ESG assessments, DEME Group maintained, as you can see, its A score from MSCI and achieved a Sustainalytics score of 30.6, and that is an improvement compared to the 31.8 in 2023. The EcoVadis assessment in 2024 led to a silver score for both the environmental and the offshore energy segments. And CDP scores for DEME offshore will become available also later this year. And finally, of course, let's go to the outlook. As you can see, DEME remains strategically and well-positioned to drive the energy transition, to tackle environmental challenges, and to ensure reliable, open access of marine trade.
We have clearly made the strategic investments needed to have the world's most advanced fleet, and we continue to ensure that we have the best people in the business. All of this will allow us to continue to deliver robust, sustainable, and profitable outcomes. Thanks to the impressive result of the first half, we have raised our turnover outlook for the full year, and we now anticipate revenue growth of around 20%, representing a record turnover level. The EBITDA margin is expected to compare to 23%. Remaining unchanged, the CapEx for the year is estimated at between EUR 300 million - EUR 350 million.
And then looking ahead, management expects the top line for the next few years to be in accordance with our anticipated result in 2024, taking into account the acceleration in 2024, our current project schedules, new projects in the pipeline, and of course, our vessel capacity. The EBITDA margin is anticipated to range between 16%- 20%.
... That concludes it from my side, and on behalf of myself and the entire DEME management team, I would also like to thank you already now for joining us, and I'll now give the floor back to Karel for the Q&A session.
Thank you, Luc and Stijn, for your insights on our half-year results. We will now begin the question and answer session. I assume most of you know the drill, but there are essentially two ways of asking questions. For participants on the conference call line, please dial star one, and the operator will place you in the waiting room before you can ask the question. For participants in the webcast, you can use the chat forum to submit your questions. From our side, we will mix and manage the flow, do our best to field questions from the different angles. And so for those using the webcast chat, kindly submit one question at a time. And for participants on the conference call, as usual, please limit yourself to one or max two questions at a time.
If you have additional questions, please then queue again. This approach will enable us to cover the questions from various participants effectively. We are now ready for the first question, so please go ahead. And I see already some activity on the conference call line, and we'll take the question from Thijs Berkelder from ABN AMRO first. Thijs, welcome to the call.
Yeah. Good morning, all. Congratulations with strong results, and, Stijn, welcome to the team. You've done so far very well. If this is a first step to what is coming in the near future, we'll, we'll-- we are very curious. First question. I have many, many questions, but I limit it to one. Primarily on your outlook statements. Your H1 margin was three hundred basis points higher than a year ago, and still you expect a flat margin for the full year. So implicitly, you expect margins to show a decline in the second half versus last year. Can you explain why?
In addition, on the medium-term outlook, looking at the strength of your order backlog, your confidence on your revenues for the coming years, and the fact that you are still in startup phase on many large projects, so margin recognition will come in later, why would it be possible to still deliver a margin of just 16%-18%, the low end of your medium-term guidance range, without countering major mistakes, delays, or whatever?
Okay. Thank you, Thijs. So I'll split it out in two questions still. So perhaps the first question on the near term, at the 2024 outlook, and the EBITDA margin for the full year in terms of guidance and keeping it comparable to 2023. Luc or Stijn?
Yeah. Good morning, Thijs. I'll take maybe your questions, and Stijn will jump in as needed or as he feels to. First of all, let's look at this year, and you have your questions. We have had a strong first half of the year - first half year. That is continuing, I would say, the evolution of the second half of last year, which was already pretty strong. And so, we are now, of course, heading for the second one, which we will have to compare to an already strong second half of last year. And I think based on that, we have raised, of course, the top line.
And in terms of EBITDA, you see that we give rather... We don't give an exact range, but we say rather in line with the overall year of last year, which based on the order book, on the outlooks, on a strong half year, we think is really realistic. Now, then going to your-
So you're guiding for a lower EBITDA margin in the second half than the second half of 2023?
Yeah. Okay, we see that Stijn has a technical problem. We're guiding for the overall year, Thijs, and that is based on what we see in the order book, the progress of the projects, the occupation of the fleet, which was very high in the first half year. I think what we are guiding now is really realistic, the overall EBITDA figure or margin.
Yeah, and maybe
Yeah
... to add to that, current EBITDA margin is 18%. EBITDA margin last year was 18.2%. We say comparable, so there is still a potential-
Of course
... increase of EBITDA margin of 18% for potentially the second half. So it, it is not that we are fully flattening it out-
No
... of course, it is.
Yeah. No, thank you,
Okay
... Luc and Stijn. And then perhaps on the second part of the question, so more looking to the EBITDA margin range that we apply for the guidance over the next few years.
Yeah.
Uh, Luc?
There, Thijs, I understand. I fully understand your question, let me say it like that. We are a project company, and so that's why we have taken a historically relatively broad range. That's true. But looking back, many people may be surprised about our results. I'm not. Last year, we already certainly second half, we had a strong half year. But of course, we had the project starting up as we mentioned in both Asia and the U.S. In a project business, we have to have a, I think, a relatively broad range.
But that being said, I've also in the encounters that we had, management is and should be aiming for the rather upper side of the range, and without any major hiccups. I think that should be the aim, and that you well understood. Keeping the lower end is really a bit protecting against major geopolitical changes, hiccups in the projects, which could go pretty faster because you're working with big equipment. We're working across the world. So I understand your question, and yes, probably the sixteen would be really preparing for a more accidental course of a year. But we're aiming.
Rest assured, we're aiming for the top side.
Yeah. Thank you.
Thank.
Thank you, Thijs , for your first questions. We'll move on and take the questions from David Kerstens. David, welcome to the call.
Hi, good morning, gentlemen. I have two questions, please. First, can you talk about the drivers of the strong profitability improvement in Taiwan and the impact on your P&L, particularly the reconciliation line in EBITDA, making a big move from fifteen million positive to twenty-four million negative, and also the strong improvement in the net profit from associates. Can you talk about what's driving that and how sustainable that is going forward? Then my second question is about your comment about the Karina, the offshore survey vessel that you added to the fleet in the first half of the year. Can you talk about your strategy in offshore survey and how much you are planning to invest going forward? And is the plan to reduce the dependence on external survey providers? Thank you very much.
Okay, David, thank you for the questions. Just looking to-
Yes
... Luc and Stijn for the first question on performance Taiwan, and how that kicks in-
Yeah
... into the profit lines.
Here again, I think, David, thanks for your valid questions. We have to look at what is driving the Taiwan results. A market which is a market where we have a good local partner. We have solid execution, and you have to see that we're comparing the figure with last year, where we have mentioned that we have. There is not so many projects, and as soon as you have a bit of a hiccup and/or delay or a problem on a project, that impacts those results. So you have to bear in mind, David, that we're comparing to last year, in which we clearly said we had a problem, a project with some problems.
So I think we're going to a good execution, strong execution with normally and expected margins in Taiwan. Maybe, Stijn, you want to add something on the net profit for associates and
Yes, so-
More, deeper
... we have the share of profits of joint ventures and associates, EUR 19 million. Out of that, EUR 11 million is on the net results from associates, which is mainly driven by the recurring income that we see on our concession segment, which is the offshore wind parks, and also some of the contributions from also the infrastructural part of the concession. That means from the joint ventures, the difference between the 19 and 11, you can make the calculations to see what is the contribution also of our joint ventures, which indeed, Taiwan is a considerable part of, as of today.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Then maybe I take your second question because that was on Karina and strategy in the geo and the offshore surveys. Now, DEME ... Of course, part of it is what you seem to suggest and is our own works, but we do a lot of works towards third parties, towards the market. Karina, I think the ones who are more specialized and deeper into that, you know, this is a geophysical survey vessel. Geophysical work and the interpretation of that is a very much a high-tech business.
It's something which we use in all the areas and the fields that we are operational in, be it the offshore wind, be it the concessions and the upstream evaluation of our concessions, be it the dredging and the infra, where, of course, this geophysical, which is really a surface survey, where you can let's say, analyze upstream, the dredgeability and the variance of what you have. So, those geophysical works are something which we want to continue to do, both for the internal market, but also for the externals. And we think that really the this is a relevant business-...
For us, because it's high tech, it's data processing, it's what we need for all our segments, and that's really the area of geotechnical/geo investigations that we want to continue to develop.
Yep, thank you, Stijn.
How important is that today? The external market.
Well, I don't think we give detailed figures, but the internal - the external market for this field is important, eh? Compared to a business which is not a very big business in the entirety of the group. But it's certainly not, let's say, a captive business. Our companies, like G-tec and Cathie Associates, are doing the vast majority of their work for outside clients.
Thank you very much.
Yeah. Thank you, Stijn, and Luc, and David, for the questions. A lot of questions in the conference call. Next in line, Luuk van Beek from Degroof Petercam.
Yes, two quick questions. The first is on H2. On H1, the utilization levels were very high, so should we expect any additional maintenance or low occupancy in the second half of the year or any other special project effects? And my second question is on the longer term outlook. Would you say that you are more or less fully booked for the next couple of years, so that's the reason why you expect such revenues in the next couple of years? Or is it more because you... So is that the key reason, basically?
No clear questions, Luuk. Thank you for that. So first, some comments, Stijn, on the utilization, first half towards the second half and planned maintenance.
Planned maintenance, I think you're probably also referring to the CapEx that is foreseen. So CapEx, we are at the moment at EUR 167 million. Our range is between EUR 300 million - EUR 350 million towards the year end. And yes, that includes according maintenance also in the second half of the year, which is not something which is exceptional. We've shared also with you the graph from the CapEx on a period of seven years, and you see there is always minimum amount on a yearly basis, which is foreseen. So nothing exceptional compared to previous years.
Yeah. Okay. And I think, Luc, you had also that question on the longer term outlook, huh? What are the drivers? I think we touched briefly on it in a previous question, but-
Yeah-
Perhaps you could repeat.
But I think I understood your question to be on the longer term outlook and whether we were fully booked. I can say that is not the case. So you can see that also from our order book. But what we rather see is that, of course, we have... We should acknowledge, we have made a significant-- or we're about to make a significant jump at 20% in a contracting environment, which you depend on, of course, on the amount of people that you have and on the amount of assets.
That is, we are making that jump, and based on that and on already high occupancy, we think that this is more or less a sustainable level which we are heading to. We are guiding, as you can see, for in line with, but we really think we made a significant jump in turnover already. But it's not to say that we are for years and years fully booked. It is what we think we can book based on the provisions and on the fleet that we have.
Yeah, on what we would call the-
The background of the question-
Sorry, Luc. Say again.
So the background of my question is also if, say, the new vessels and conversions that you have in the pipeline were a significant capacity or that capacity in the level that you expect to achieve this year is more or less what you can do with the capacity that you have and the capacity in the pipeline.
I think we have to be careful with drawing too much conclusions on that. Yes, we have a significantly high occupation of the vessel, but at the same time, it depends on the mix of portfolio, so I don't think you should see that we are limited to an absolute figure of turnover in the mid to long-term future, because we have a mix of infra, environmental. Sometimes we do, as you know, EPC projects for offshore wind, which we currently don't have in portfolio.
You have to, let's say, not base itself only on the occupation of the vessels, but what we do see, occupation is pretty high. And based on those occupations on the order book and what we are negotiating, we think that the guidance is pretty accurate.
Okay, thank you. That's all for now.
Okay. Thank you, Luuk. We'll move on with the questions from Christoph Greulich from Berenberg. Good morning, Christoph.
Yeah, good morning, and thanks a lot for taking my question. I would like to talk about the Vineyard project in the U.S. So, last year in H1, we had those extra costs. They were related to, yeah, let's say, pending resolutions of certain claims and variation orders. If I remember correctly, you have accounted for some income from that already in H2 last year. I was just wondering if you could provide a bit of an update, if you also have seen some additional income from that in H1 this year, and if this is all fully resolved now, or if there's still ongoing discussion. Yeah, there might be some further additional income in H2 or in the coming years from that.
And then just on the same project, I mean, more recently, there has been a blade failure, and which I understand also has led to stop off the installation work. Just wondering if it's already clear what was the reason for this blade failure, if it was the material, if it was related to installation, and if it's already clear who's bearing the additional costs. So basically, if there's any risk for them to see some yeah additional costs from the blade failure. Thank you.
Yeah. So on the first part, maybe because of your question, we are continuing negotiations with the clients, and I don't think there is something which we really... an update on that in the first half of the year. In terms of the second... So just on that first part, as we did last year, we made a thorough assessment of the likely income of our discussions, and that has been taken into the figures. As to the second part of your question, blade failure, I think it's not up to us to discuss technicalities about causes and stuff like that.
That's really up to the client and the OEM who produced the turbines. As for ourselves, as you know, we are installing the turbines, and the authorities have authorized now to continue the installation of the turbines. So we are doing the installation with the Sea Installer of what we call hammerheads. And hammerheads simply means we are installing the towers and the nacelles without the blades. So for us, the installation is simply continuing on the project.
I think I can add to that. In a conference call last week, GE admitted that the fault of the topic was fully with them, eh? So it is related to a quality issue in their production plant. So, to just make it sure, nothing to do and out of our control in terms of installation.
I think that covers it for Vineyard for now.
Yeah, very clear. Thank you.
Yeah.
Okay, thank you. And we'll move on with a question from Guy Sips from KBC Securities.
Yes, thank you. I also had some questions on the utilization rate, but we already elaborated on that. Perhaps we can focus on the Duqm BP investment. I know it was passed after the closing of the first half, but can you give some more color on that? And what can we expect going forward in the numbers of DEME of this transaction? Thank you.
Okay, look, on the Duqm.
Yeah. So the... Thank you, Guy. So, we had our project in HYPORT Duqm . Now we have BP stepping in. They will take a 49% share, while OQ and DEME keep a 25.5% share in the project. So that's now the new configuration of the project. What are the next steps? Because I think that's probably what you are asking mostly.
Yep.
We are in the process now of a detailed analysis together with BP, who also take, by the way, because that's an important point which I needed to say, they take the operator role of the project, meaning that they will have the full operational control and are reviewing the assumptions that we have made before, so the technical part of it. And secondly, of course, most importantly, for such a project is the offtake, and with the offtake will also go the phasing of the project. So we want. Of course, we want them to be aligned, the offtake and the phasing, and that's what's going on right now.
We are having detailed conversations and a lot further analyzing the project and looking at the different possible scenarios of going forward, and that will take well at least a year, if not a bit more time, before we will then come back to the market and saying, "This is how the project itself will be rolled out in more detail.
Yeah, I think that completes it for the-
Yeah, thank you.
Yeah, go ahead, Guy. No, so then I assume you're good with the response so far. And we'll move on with another question from the conference call line from André Mulder from Kepler Cheuvreux.
... Yeah, good morning. Two questions. Firstly, dredging margins. I think at the last occasion, you hinted at the fact that for a number of projects you were reaching the end phase, and as such, the margins in that part were rather high. Did that play a role in the first half? And would you expect that the same to happen in the second half? And secondly, on CapEx, also in the last meeting, you said that yards are becoming a bit more hungry, and that would be a good time to start ordering vessels. What's your time path there?
Yeah. Thank you, André. Good, good questions.
The first one?
Perhaps the first one, Stijn, on the margins in dredging first half, and how we see that evolving.
We've seen a very steady performance within in the first half year of the dredging segment. We do have a large amount of projects in different sizes. You mentioned at the end phases, sometimes the margins are higher. I think the main thing is that we have a continuation with projects starting up. The phasing is important, projects ending, so there is not necessarily a special effect in the first half year, neither do we expect actually in the second half year. This is a bit projects-wise and phasing a standard period for the time being.
Yeah. In terms of your second question, well, maybe a couple of comments on that. We keep an eye on the shipbuilding prices. I don't remember half year ago how our view was exactly, but I think honestly, it's still the same as today. We see pretty high prices. Of course, we're keeping an eye on the market, both on the Asian market and on the European market. So I would say they are still high. Of course, nobody knows what they will be going forward, and we will only know in ten years, looking back, whether we are at the top of a cycle or whether prices will remain at that level.
So that being said, of course, we are continuing to consider investments. So I cannot go into more details now, but it's certainly not that we have ambitions of net zero financial debt or things like that. We are optimistic in all our segments, and we always, as our shareholders say, when they come to us as engineers, we always have plans for investments. But we don't have any announced. You know that we will come back to you as soon as that is the case.
But the prices are today, to my opinion, still quite high.
Yeah. Thank you.
Can you give a few of what CapEx should look like for next year?
Yeah, we don't necessarily give-
No, we haven't guided yet.
... any guidance on what CapEx could be for next year?
No.
Okay. Thank you.
Yep. We'll move on with the next question in line from Thomas Martin, from BNP Paribas.
Hi. Thanks for taking the call, and the questions. Touched on some of this before, but can I maybe try and expand a little bit? Your long-term guidance, basically for flattish revenues from the higher twenty twenty-four level. Can I ask, does your existing backlog broadly incorporate flat pricing? You've already noted the high vessel occupancy levels that you've got. So I'm trying to understand broadly, if flattish long-term revenue guidance incorporates flattish pricing and ongoing high activity levels, or is there one moving in opposition to the other there? Second question related to the comments just made, I guess. Maybe you could expand for us a little bit. You know, do you believe offshore wind activity across the industry is now plateauing? Some developers have slowed their expansion plans.
Or, you know, if it's likely to increase, are you happy to see your market share reduce? And I guess, you know, I'm thinking that if you believe in growth and your market share isn't gonna come down, then at some point in time, you do need to invest in additional capacity, and it looks like you need to do that relatively soon, given your high utilization levels. Your market views would be appreciated. Thanks.
Yeah. Thank you, Thomas. Broad questions, I'm inclined to say. Anyone willing to take the first one on the longer-term guidance related to backlog and-
Yeah
... pricing levels? Yeah, Luc.
Yeah. Well, I think a couple of years ago, at the beginning, we were saying, and we've all seen that, I'm talking maybe now specifically for the offshore, that the order intake was at the prices that had been, let's say, taken into account from two, three years, four years ago, because you have quite long lead times. Certainly, we see an improved pricing there, and I think we see that more or less across our segments. But that being said,
... what we have is a product mixer. We have an occupation of the vessel. We have the product, the project outlook. We have the performance on the project, which again, I cannot stress enough, is a key driver. I'm not surprised by the results of this year. I-- we-- you also the results of the f- the second half of last year. If in a project business and at the levels of activity and margins that we have today, you have no hiccups on the project test. This is really what we are delivering. I would say it's a mix.
I wouldn't go as far as saying there's a flattish pricing or there will be less occupation. It's a mix of many factors. In terms of offshore wind plateauing, the offshore wind continues and you all know to have fairly strong ambitions. People are talking towards the end of the decade of 25 GW. We are also seeing continued growth and a lot of projects in the pipeline. There's a number of things which will need to happen for it all to materialize, and I think the production of the turbines, the OEMs, the permits are part of that.
The evolution of the U.S. market, of course, we may see a change a little bit in attitude, although a lot of the projects are now being or that we will see quite a lot of projects awarded this year. I think I was talking about ten. It will be probably rather seven, eight, but close to the ten in terms of award. So we also see continued growth there. And in terms of then your question, if we are seeing that growth, should we continue to invest in that business? We are continuing to invest, and we have doubled the capacity on the Viking Neptune, on the cable layer.
We have almost doubled our capacity in rock protection works with the Yellowstone joining the fleet. You see that vessels like Green Jade and Orion are showing their strength, their real strength this year in terms of what we can install in number of foundations. We are seeing that we learn a lot about their capability of working in harsher weather conditions. So we see them operating really through the seasons. So I think in a natural way we have been investing. In a natural way, the capabilities of our vessels are being further discovered and heightened.
Of course, on the last point, in the sub-segments, which, you know, which are the foundation installation, the cables, and the turbine installation, we see quite different supply demand landscapes, and we will try to focus on the ones where we see the highest supply demand and balances. Also, there I can say, as I said earlier, I think it was to Christoph or to André, we are continuing to look at opportunities and investments also in that field, for sure.
Yeah.
Okay, okay. Thank you, Luc. And perhaps one question from the chat, a bit related to that, but then specific on the US. Question is, what is the status of the US market, and what could be the impact of US elections on our in general the offshore market, I think is meant here?
Yeah.
If you can give some color on that.
Yeah. Well, I gave you a brief flavor of that. What we see is that the states today and the national government is awarding quite a number of projects. So that is, of course, that gives you a flavor of what the Biden-Harris administration and probably in continuation, the... if it's the case, the Harris-Walz administration would do. So I think there is the need for renewable energy in the Northeast and also in the Southwest, which we see now coming up. So I'm pretty optimistic on the demand continuing there.
Of course, if we would see a Trump administration coming back there, we may, I think, see some symbolic actions. We know that Mr. Trump is not particularly fond of offshore wind. And that's maybe since we built one of the wind farms in front of his golf course in Scotland. But that's probably a personal attitude of him. But that, all laughing apart, I think the states need this renewable. States I'm talking about, need this renewable energy. I'm talking about Virginia, I'm talking about Maryland, Massachusetts, all, name them, all the northeastern states.
And, the central government can have a little bit of steering slash adjustments, which may affect a couple of the projects and create a little bit of, you know, bad press, as he can do. But I don't see it really, in the long term, affecting significantly the demand in offshore wind in the U.S. But that's probably my personal opinion.
Okay. I see still two more hands in the conference call line. One from André Mulder. If there is a new question in addition to the ones said before. André?
Yeah. Yeah, it certainly is. For dredging, you split your utilization rates in the hoppers and cutters. Could you give an indication of at least a qualitative one of how the utilization rates look for the main categories in offshore energy? For example, on a foundation installation, turbine installation, or cable layers.
Yeah, the... We don't give a subdivision there of the utilizations for the offshore energy segment. You-- So we give an overall figure, which is really high these days. And going to a further sub segment, first of all, I do think that is commercially sensitive. But secondly, on a quite technical point, there is some of the vessels, significant vessels like the Innovation. Innovation is today installing and drilling monopiles. It was until yesterday, by means of speaking, at beginning of the year, it was installing turbines. Same goes for installer, Sea Installer and Sea Challenger. So we will get...
I think you would get a figure which hardly reflects a reality, as you quite clearly see in the dredging category. So we will not go into a further detailing of the occupation of the fleet in these sub-segments.
Indeed. Mindful about time-
If you would split it in the installation part and the cable layers, is there a main difference in utilization rates? We don't need, of course, the decimals, but just a feeling of what the position is of both areas.
You can see, André, a very high occupation these days. Today, I can tell you that the vessels of the fleet, be it the cable layers or the installation vessels, if you split it in those, both have high, too, let's call it, very high occupation rates.
Yeah. Thank you, and-
Okay. Thank you.
Yeah. Thank you, André. Mindful about time, I think we have time for one last question. I know there are more questions in the call, but don't hesitate to come back to me later on. Luuk, you were queuing for already quite some time. If that is with a new question, please go ahead.
Yes, I have one final question on new investments, because you refer specifically to the price levels in the yards. But is that the only thing keeping you from taking decisions, or are you also looking for a bit more visibility on what types of capacity you will need, say, in the coming ten years? Related to that, if it takes a long time to take a decision and your balance sheet keeps on deleveraging, is there a certain point at which you consider to under lever it and consider additional shareholder remuneration?
Yeah, so if I understand your question well, of course, the yard prices I mentioned before, they... We're observing them, but, I expect-- I hope them... I see them stabilizing, so they haven't gone down yet. But that, of course, only one of the aspects, for sure. The visibility on the different supply-demand in the sub-segments is probably the most important question, and then the evolutions, for instance, which we had in many analyst talks, the evolution on turbine size, which, in one way, seemed to plateau for the next years. But then, of course, we will see an uptake again. We have now Chinese suppliers coming in.
They seem to have, let's say, parted with the view that the turbine sizes were gonna be in the next years between 15 and a little bit more, that the platform of the 15 MW turbine was going to be used. You see announcements in China of much larger turbines. That is all, indeed, factors which are much more important, which we take into account. I mentioned also before, we have ambitions of sustainably creating value and investing our money in new assets in the further development of the company. That is what we are aiming for.
Net debt slash dividends play a role, but growing the company is for us as a management, and I think we are aligned with our shareholders. They're the most, let's say, the most important driver.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Luke. And I regret to bring it to an end here. We're part of a disciplined organization. We try to start on time, we try to stop on time as well. I know there are a couple of additional questions or questionnaires pending. Do not hesitate to reach out to me, later today or tomorrow, to discuss those, or if you wish to provide feedback, you know, where to find me. Against the backdrop of our financial calendar, I'd like to thank all of you, for your participation, and Stijn and Luc for their insightful presentation and for addressing these questions.
We are looking forward to meeting many of you during the road shows and conferences that we have on the plan for the coming weeks. And for now, thanks again, and have a great day.