Good day, and welcome to today's Accor third quarter 2023 revenue conference call. This meeting is being recorded. At this time, I'd like to hand the call over to Martine Gerow, Chief Executive Officer of Accor. Please go ahead.
Thank you, and good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you very much for joining Accor's third quarter trading update call. Without further ado, I will start with the key highlights on slide three of the presentation. The activity remained very consistently strong over the last three months, which demonstrates both the resilience of Accor, but obviously of the travel demand. Our RevPAR was up 15% year-over-year, and we were particularly pleased with this result, given the fact that we had high comps last year, where RevPAR was 14% versus 2019 in the third quarter of 2020. This was supported really by all regions and segments, and we'll come back with more details in a couple of slides.
RevPAR growth was steady throughout the third quarter, you know, every month was a strong month. RevPAR was driven by continued gain in rates and occupancy, so balanced across rates and occupancy. Net unit growth, on a like-for-month basis, reached 3% at the end of the third quarter. It is a deceleration, we expected it, versus the 3.5% which we had reported as net unit growth at the end of June on a like-for-month basis. This is really-- We had shared this with you at the time.
This is really driven by the fact that we had an exceptional third quarter, 2022, which was actually a record best, in terms of, in terms of openings. The combination of RevPAR, net unit growth, led to a group revenue of EUR 1.286 billion, which is up 13% versus prior on a like-for-like basis. In addition to delivering strong trading performance in the third quarter, we're also executing very rigorously on our financial and business strategy. In September, we regained our investment grade rating with S&P on the back of robust business and financial performance and credit metrics.
This enables us to launch and to complete successfully a hybrid bond issuance of EUR 500 million, and that illustrates the credit investors' confidence in our business model and financial discipline. As for the commitment we made in June, we recently launched a EUR 400 million share buyback program, which is the first step in the EUR 3 billion shareholder return strategy, which we shared with you at the CMD back in June. Finally, given those strong results, and assuming no material change from the current geopolitical and economic environment, we are raising, once again, our guidance for the full year of 2023.
Growth in RevPAR is now expected in the low 20s%, and consolidated EBITDA is now expected between EUR 955 million-EUR 985 million, which is about a 2-point increase at the midpoint versus our previous guidance. I'll now turn to RevPAR per division on slide four. Starting on the left, Premium, Midscale, and Economy division posted a RevPAR growth in the third quarter of 15% year-over-year, and that's driven by continued strong pricing resilience for about 2/3 and occupancy gains for about 1/3. In the quarter, average room rate was up 10% year-over-year, and occupancy rates was up 3 points versus prior, at 71%.
If I look more closely by region in ENA, which is Europe and North Africa, third quarter RevPAR was up 9%, driven by an 8% growth in average room rate. And looking at some of the key countries in that region, France, RevPAR was up 8%, and benefited from the influx of international leisure guests in the Paris area, particularly over the summer, which offset some softness that we saw on the domestic leisure. And in September, RevPAR, actually in September in France, was up 11%, and we saw the benefit from the Rugby World Cup, especially in cities where we have more limited supply, such as Lille or Nantes. In the U.K., pretty similar pattern comparable to France. Stronger flows from international guests, which benefited London.
Germany, softer performance, which reflects also the economic environment in Germany versus France and the U.K., with a more limited increase year-over-year. As we, I think, have commented in the past, this is a market that's particularly driven by MICE, which has not fully, fully recovered. Moving to MEA APAC, Middle East, Africa, and Asia Pacific. Third quarter RevPAR was up an impressive 25%, and as you can see here, it's driven both by volume and by rates. Middle East continued to be supported by solid price increase. Occupancy in that part of the world slightly improved, as it has now reached pre-COVID level. Pacific, a relatively soft growth of its domestic demand, but benefited from the recovery of the international business guests from Asia, such as China, Japan, and India.
Southeast Asia posted a very strong performance, particularly in Singapore, where we saw very healthy price increases, which are fueled by international demand. China, very strong growth, 44% RevPAR growth in the quarter, and RevPAR actually in China is now above 2019. Moving to Americas, which, as you know, for Accor, for PM&E, is primarily South America, and within that, primarily Brazil. Third quarter RevPAR was up 13% versus 2022. Brazil recovered actually their pre-COVID occupancy level in the second quarter of 2022. We continue to benefit from rate increase in this area. If I now move to Luxury and Lifestyle on the right, RevPAR growth was 14% year-over-year.
And you can see sustained momentum driving 2/3 of the growth on the rate side, with average room rate up 9% in the third quarter, and occupancy rate for about 1/3 of the growth. Occupancy rate was up 3 points year-over-year. Luxury RevPAR was up 15% in the quarter. You know, equally supported, as you can see here, by occupancy and price. We're starting to see some leveling off in the U.S., but that remains positive, notably for Fairmont, which is our largest activity in North America. Lifestyle RevPAR was up 12% versus prior year in the third quarter. Lifestyle is a segment that recovered a bit faster, and so we have a somewhat lower, you know, baseline, baseline effect.
We did have a very solid summer season in our resorts, activity. If I move now to slide five, and comment the hotel portfolio and pipeline. Starting on the left, again, with premium, midscale and economy, the network grew by 2.9% over the last 12 months, with very good growth in China, which demonstrates the recovery in that area. On Luxury and Lifestyle portfolio, the portfolio grew by 3.4% over the last 12 months, really driven by Ennismore, which is, as you know, our Lifestyle portfolio. At group level, the net unit growth was 3% over the last 12 months.
And again, I commented on the fact that this is lower than what we reported at the end of the second quarter, but really related to the record opening that we had in the third quarter of 2022, which now are not in the last 12 months. Openings over the quarter specifically were essentially in line with the historical average. And we were pleased to see churn that also returned to a normalized level of about 2% on an LTM basis. We are confirming our full year 2023 NUG guidance at between 2% and 3% in aggregate, but we're also confirming it by division, with 6% for Luxury and Lifestyle.
And we're also reiterating our guidance regarding the fees per room, which are between EUR 1,000 and EUR 1,100 per room for PM&E, and between EUR 3,600 and EUR 3,900 per room for Luxury and Lifestyle. Turning to the pipeline. The pipeline benefited from strong signings, notably in PM&E, MEA APAC and in Lifestyle. And the total pipeline grew 3% year-over-year to 219,000 room. And that's, you know, mostly obviously PM&E, given the weight of that of that division. If I move to slide six, which is the revenue breakdown by segment. So as I, you know, said in introduction, the group revenue in the third quarter, total, EUR 1.286 billion, that's up 13% on a like-for-like basis versus prior year.
On a recorded basis, revenue grew at 12%, and you really have two offsetting effects. One, positive effects on the perimeter, which is mainly the consolidation of Paris Society, which we acquired at the end of November of 2022. That sits in hotel assets and other, in Luxury and Lifestyle. That positive effect was actually offset by FX, which was negative in the third quarter. For premium, midscale, and economy, like-for-like revenue was up 13%, reaching EUR 767 million. You can see that's driven by growth in M&F revenues, which were up 17% on a like-for-like basis. Within that, incentive normalized at about 34% of the M&F fees, so well in line with pre-COVID level.
That drove growth in M&F revenue in PM&E, which was slightly above RevPAR on growth. Cost inflation within the hotels has been held under control, and that's obviously a positive for M&F, for the incentives portion of our M&F revenue. Services to owner grew at 11%. That is slightly lower than the growth in RevPAR, but this is really related to the fact that last year, in the third quarter, we had a very strong uplift coming from the reimbursement of cost incurred under the accommodation service during the FIFA World Cup, so more of a baseline effect. Hotel assets and other like-for-like performance for PM&E is, you know, primarily driven by Australia and Brazil.
The Strata business, which is the main business and mainly leisure destination, was already back above 2019 last year, and therefore, we have more of a normalized rate growth for, sorry, growth rate for this part of the business. If I turn to Luxury and Lifestyle, like-for-like revenue was up 17%, so EUR 539 million. Management franchise was up 11%, incentives representing about 33% of M&F fees. Services [too], had a very good growth, 18%, so above RevPAR growth. We're very pleased to see an increase in what we call our fee-able channels, which includes mainly web direct and indirect channels, and that are overperforming other distribution channel and therefore, positive impact on our STO revenues.
Looking more closely at M&F revenues on slide seven. So overall, 15% growth in M&F revenue across both divisions, so in line with the RevPAR growth in the quarter, which was 15%. PM&E, as I commented, 17% growth in M&F revenue. And really, the performance by region reflects the differences, one, in the pace of, of recovery, but also the weight of management contracts in that regional mix. For example, if you look at MEA APAC, this is a region that is the most exposed to management contracts, and therefore, more fully benefits from the incentive recovery. We have the same effect in Luxury and Lifestyle, but on luxury, more specifically, we took a cautious view regarding incentive contribution this quarter, given the uncertainties regarding macro and, and geopolitical environment.
Moving to slide eight, I just wanted to illustrate how we are swiftly progressing on the execution of the capital allocation plan that we presented during Capital Market Day. I'm gonna go quickly on that since I summarized that in the introduction. Following the release of strong earnings in the first half and the improvement in business and credit metrics, we were pleased to see S&P upgrading our credit rating to investment-grade, BBB- with a stable outlook. That was on September 12. We are committed to maintain credit metrics that are consistent with an investment-grade rating because it gives us greater market access and flexibility when it comes to managing our liability. This triggered the refinancing, as we had shared with you, of the January 2019 hybrid bond that included two steps.
First steps was the successful issuance of a new hybrid perpetual bond for EUR 500 million. That was on October 12. We were pleased to see that the issuance was oversubscribed four times, despite the fact that we came out in a market that was somewhat choppy. And that reflected the renewed investors' confidence in the group, solid credit profile, but also its strategy and its growth potential. And the second step, which was actually done in parallel, was a tender offer on the hybrid bond issued in January 2019, 2018, sorry, which was also successfully completed. Just to let you to share with you, this refinancing will be broadly neutral on our net financial expenses, when we couple it down with the step down on the coupons on our existing debt.
So even though the new hybrid bond is at a higher coupon than the January 19 [one], the net impact of that is essentially neutral. The completion of the issuance of the hybrid bond allowed us, sorry, to be in a position to initiate our first share buyback program of EUR 400 million over the next six months. That is absolutely consistent with the commitment we made to return EUR 3 billion, sorry, euros to shareholders over the 2023-2027 period. At the time we had indicated that that return would include between EUR 1.5 billion - EUR 2 billion through share buyback. And as of Friday, we had completed EUR 80 million of that share buyback.
The volume is, is roughly EUR 8 million of share buyback per trading day. We concluded the CMD, stating that it was all now about execution, and we are pleased to report that thus far, we are on track. I'll conclude this presentation with the key takeaway slide. Activity remains resilient, price is holding well, despite the macro's volatility. We reiterate our net unit growth guidance between 2% and 3%. Given the strong performance in Q3, and assuming no material change from current geopolitical and economic environment, we are raising again our guidance for the full year of 2023. We're now expecting a RevPAR growth in the low twenties. We had guided you toward the end of the 15%-20% range the last time we spoke.
We are now expecting consolidated EBITDA between EUR 955 million-EUR 985 million. Previously, we were EUR 930 million-EUR 970 million. That's about a 2-point increase at the midpoint level. Thank you for your attention, and the floor is now yours for questions.
Thank you, ma'am. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question at this time, please signal by pressing star one on your telephone keypad. Please make sure the mute function on your phone is switched off to allow a signal to reach our equipment. If you find that your question has already been answered, you may remove yourself from the queue by pressing star two. Again, please press star one now to ask a question.
... Our first question comes from Jaina Mistry from Jefferies. Please go ahead, your line is open.
Hi, Martine, and thanks very much for taking questions. I have three. My first question is around net unit growth. You've had a very strong opening profile in Q3, and your guidance is unchanged this full year. How come are you that this 2%-3% NUG year can year? My second question is around your buyback program. In 12-month run rates, that's EUR 800 million. And it-
I'm sorry, Jaina, but you're breaking out, so I—I'm—I haven't—I can't. I didn't catch your question because you're really breaking out.
Oh, I'm so sorry. Is this better?
Yeah, that's better.
Okay, so my first question was around NUG, and how confident you are that 2%-3% NUG this year can accelerate next year? My second question is around buybacks. Your current buyback implies a run rate of EUR 800 million over 12 months. Is this something that can be continued over the next three or four years, or should we think of this as a front loading of the buyback? And then my last question is around AccorInvest. We've seen the press saying that AccorInvest is looking to dispose of some assets. Could you just update us on what's happening in this business and the timing of the disposal of Accor's stake in the business? Thank you.
Thanks for your question. In terms of net unit growth, you know, we're maintaining our guidance to 2%-3%. You know, part of that, but yet we are confident in our ability to accelerate this. We had a somewhat lopsided net unit growth in 2022, with a very, very high rate of opening in the fourth quarter. That should normalize in the coming year. When you think about our net unit growth guidance, or projection for the 2024-2027 period, that is 3%-5%. The acceleration is really 1-2 points, and the acceleration is actually more on the Luxury and Lifestyle side of the portfolio.
PM&E net unit growth guidance is actually quite, you know, quite consistent to where we are right now. We're very confident in our ability to deliver the net unit growth on the Luxury and Lifestyle side. With respect to your second question on the buyback program, I think what we said was that we expect a EUR 3 billion return to shareholder, between EUR 1.5 billion-EUR 2 billion of that will be in the form of share buyback. If you take that over a four-year period, you know, 2023 to 2027, that's basically up to, you know, between EUR 400 million-EUR 500 million per year. This is the first year, EUR 400 million.
So, it's completely in line with what we have, you know, shared with you. And with respect to, you know, with respect to AccorInvest, they are, and I think we shared that with you previously, they are on a new asset disposal program. They have actually started that program. They are essentially pursuing that, pursuing that program as a matter of course. They have started discussions with their pool of creditors, you know, given the maturity of their debt. In terms of disposal of that stake, we have no plans at, you know, at the current time. This is not a question for today.
This is a question that, you know, may be relevant in the back end of 2025 or 2026, when, you know, AccorInvest will have completed its refinancing.
That's fantastic. Thank you very much.
Thank you. We'll now move to our next question from André Juillard, from Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead.
Good evening. A few questions from me. First one on the renegotiation of the prices from corporates, the trend you register on the MICE segment, and the first feedback you can have on Olympic Games. Could you give us some more color about all these trends? That's my first question. Second question is about the capital allocation. So you gave us some clear guidance about the return to shareholders expected to take place between 2023 and 2024.
You said relatively clearly that there were no plan of strong M&A, but regarding the approaching trend and the fact that you should deliver some good results on the improving one more time, your EBITDA guidance, could we anticipate an acceleration of the return to shareholders or some good news, if the balance sheet allows it or not? Thank you very much.
... Hi. Thank you for your thank you for your question. So in terms of the, in terms of the, corporate negotiated rates, what we're seeing is, and we've actually done a survey recently. So what we see is, we see both an increase in demand, I think the, at least the intention was, to increase corporate travel spend by 10%. So the accounts, with which we-- So the large accounts. And on the rate side, it's basically in line with inflation. I think the pricing indication was between 4% and 5%. So both kind of volume and rates, positive, positive trends.
With respect to Olympic Games, you know, we don't have any further insights. As you know, some of the rooms have already been sold, at least the inventory has been sold with for the media and the staff. With respect to capital allocation, I think that, you know, what we've said was, we are committed to return about EUR 3 billion over that 2023-2027 period. We do not plan for any transformational acquisition, you know, more like, kind of, plug-in acquisitions.
What we have also said is that that return plan did not include any disposal of any, you know, significance, and in particular did not include the disposal of our, going back to the previous question on [audio distortion].
Okay, thank you very much.
We will now move to our next question from Leo Carrington from Citi. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Good evening, Martine. If I could ask three questions as well. Firstly, if you could help us by calling out any impacts that you have already seen or expect to see as a consequence of the tension in the Middle East, that would be helpful, as I understand that is already incorporated in guidance. So any comments on the impact to your Middle Eastern business would be helpful. And then, in terms of this driving a cautious incentive fee recognition, is this something you can help you know quantify the impact of in this quarter? Maybe in reference to the incentive fees in Q2 or 2019, which I think were around 35% of the total.
Should we assume that implied in your guidance, there's a similar sort of cautious incentive fee recognition baked in? And then, final question, on the pipeline, it looks to have stepped up again. Can you indicate what trends you're seeing among the signings into the pipeline in terms of conversions compared to new builds? And if you could give that usual split of conversions within openings and signings, that would be fantastic as well. Thank you.
Sure. Hi, Leo. Obviously we're monitoring the situation in Israel very closely. You know, our first priority is clearly the security and safety of our staff or the staff of the hotel, and our clients. We've seen some cancellations in that region. Nothing that is material at the level of the group. You know, we'll keep monitoring the situation, but, you know, thus far, some cancellations, but again, nothing that is material. In terms of your second question with regard to incentives on the, you know, luxe and lifestyle.
I mean, to give you an order of magnitude, you know, potentially a couple of, you know, couple of million , nothing more. In terms of the pipeline, and actually openings, about 50% of the new signings and 50% of the openings are conversions. So pretty, you know, pretty consistent, with what we have seen, in the recent past. And if you take your conversion plus under construction, that's about 2/3 of the pipeline.
Thank you.
We will now take our next question from Alex Brignall, from Redburn. Please go ahead.
Evening. Thank you for taking the question. I'll just do one, please. As we've gone through the year, the sensitivity to RevPAR seems to be slightly coming down. Obviously, we don't know exactly what your guide is, but kind of in the low twenties, it seems like your EBITDA sensitivity is either going down a little or you're just acting with an abundance of caution given the macro environment. Could you just maybe tell us which one of those it is? Thank you.
Sure. We, you know, we've said that we will be in the high end of the 15%-20% range, call it 20%. We're now saying that we'll be in the low 20s%. If you take that as, you know, 2, 3 points, and you convert that into the RevPAR, sorry, the EBITDA increase that we've done, which is about, I think from—well, at the low end, it's EUR 25 million. You know, that gives you a math which is pretty consistent with what we said in the first half.
The sensitivity is not necessarily, or at least I would say that the sensitivity has not, you know, has not gone down, it's still EUR 7 million-EUR 8 million per point of RevPAR. The guidance for the EBITDA on the full year basis, you know, we try to have a balance here between, obviously, being within the guidance and taking into account, you know, whatever uncertainty there is in the current geopolitical and macro environment.
Thank you very much.
Thank you. We're gonna move to our next question from Vicki Stern from Barclays. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi there. Just quickly back on the comment about the cancellations. I appreciate those are, they're small in the context of the group, but it's helpful just to understand a bit better how consumers and businesses are behaving in the region. So if we could just get more color. Are you seeing those cancellations just in Israel, or is that extending to the broader Middle East, Egypt and Turkey? And sort of how are the hotels behaving then, in terms of prices those are coming through? And then finally, if you could just remind us then on your exposure, both in the Middle East and also, Turkey, Egypt, separately. Thanks.
Sure. Hi, Vicki. I'll start with maybe your last question. So in terms of our portfolio, we have about 2% of our portfolio, which is in Turkey, and a further 9%, which sits across the Gulf and North Africa, as well as Egypt and Jordan. So if we just take the Gulf, the Gulf state, that's about 5% of the portfolio, and then we've got another, you know, 1%, I think, in North Africa, and then another couple of points in Egypt and Jordan.
In terms of where we see the cancellations, we primarily see the, you know, the cancellations, in the region, but we also see some cancellation from, individuals and, you know, and groups, who were planning events, from that region, particularly Israel, who were planning events outside of, you know, outside of Israel. So it is, it's impacting primarily the, the region around, you know, around Israel at this point. You know, and again, we're monitoring the situation closely, and we'll continue to do so. But in terms of the, you know, in terms of the exposure, it's about, you know, 9% without Turkey, and Turkey is another 2%.
Thank you. And just, just to follow up, the impact on price, I know that that region generally has obviously been one of the sort of more extreme ones in terms of pricing power. Just, yeah, any sort of initial reactions on price as some of the cancellations or weaker bookings might be coming through?
Yeah, on that one, I think it's a bit, you know, it's a bit premature to give any to read any trends.
Okay, thanks very much.
Thank you. May I remind you, if you wish to ask a question, please signal by pressing star now. Please make sure the mute function on your phone is switched out to allow your signal to reach our equipment. Please make sure your phone is unmuted. Thank you. We'll now move to our next question from Jamie Rollo, from Morgan Stanley.
Thanks, Augustine, everyone. Hi, Martine. Just a few questions on really the sort of guidance. First of all, the EUR 30 million EBITDA range in the full year, which in one quarter is quite high, given the sort of sensitivity. And yet you're saying that your caution on IMFs was only a couple of million in the quarter, I think. So if you just try and square that circle. Secondly, if I compare the like-for-like revenue and RevPAR, there's a real gap in luxury, up 10% on like-for-like M&F revenue versus up 15% in RevPAR. Is that where all the IMF conservatism is, or was there any in the other divisions?
And then, I think someone tried to ask this question earlier, but just in terms of quantifying how much caution there is in guidance, is there any caution in that guidance? Or is it all sort of within the range?
Jamie, I lost you on the third question, if you don't mind repeating.
Yeah, just on the IMF caution, is that encompassed across your EBITDA range? So is there any IMF caution in the high end of the EBITDA range, or is that just like assuming a normal fourth quarter?
On the guidance, EUR 30 million range between the high end and the low is a consistent, let's say, percentage of the full year number versus what we typically have done at this point in the year. In terms of the. Now, if you ask me where I feel, do I feel I have a EUR 30 million range, I will tell you, "No, I have, I have." But again, I think this is a guidance, and we just want to maintain some flexibility within that.
In terms of the incentive fees, yes, there is, you know, some cautiousness that we took, you know, in that guidance, certainly on the low end. And it's on the Luxury and Lifestyle side. It's not on the PM&E side.
Okay, thank you very much.
Thank you very much, and it appears this was the last question in the queue. As a reminder, to ask a question now, please signal by pressing star one on your telephone keypad, and please make sure the mute function on your phone is switched off to allow your signal to reach our equipment. Thank you. We have a question from Jarrod Castle from UBS. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Just why, why haven't you actually taken any caution in the incentive fee for PM&E? And then secondly, just in terms of the 2%-3% NUG guidance, can you give any indication of the exit rates at the moment, please? And then just any broad comments. I know you, you generally, you know, don't say too much on these calls, but anything, just how you're seeing cost pressures at the moment. Thank you.
Sure. So to your first question, the reason we're a bit more cautious on the Luxury and Lifestyle incentive fee is because that's the region that is more exposed to the Middle East. So we just wanted to, you know, keep some level of prudency on that particular side of the business. In terms of the NUG guidance, we do expect a healthy level of openings in the fourth quarter. But we are overlapping a fourth quarter of 2022 that was also very, you know, very healthy, you know.
Hence, you know, our guidance in the 2%-3%, and if you wanna, you know, take your own view as to, where we'll be within, you know, within that range. But we do expect a strong level of openings in the fourth quarter this year. And with respect to, to the cost pressure, we're actually seeing the growth operating profit margins in the hotels that are holding up. So they are able to offset inflation by price increases. So thus far, you know, we're able to essentially pass through inflation and some to the into the rates.
Okay. Thanks very much.
We will now move to our next question from Simon Lechipre from Stifel. Please go ahead.
Yes, good evening. Just one from me as a follow-up to the IMF question and looking at PM&E in Europe once again, like-for-like fee growth is below RevPAR growth. It was already the case in H1. I mean, why is that? And, I mean, I would have expected, let's say, a catch up in H2 of the IMF. So why it remain below the RevPAR growth trend? Thank you.
So on PM&E, in Europe, right? So I think RevPAR growth was 9%, and it's 8%, so we have about a point, let's say, lower than the RevPAR growth. So we have basically an impact from Germany in this region. I mentioned the fact that Germany has a soft growth, which means that we have a bit less of an incentive fee favorable impact from that market. That's really what's driving it, because if you look at the other markets-
It was already the case in H1, because there was 6 points of difference in H1.
That's correct. In H1, we also had a bit of a base effect.
Okay.
Which we commented at the time.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you. Now our next question comes from Muneeba Kayani from Bank of America. Please go ahead.
Yes, good evening. I just wanted to ask about one comment in your release, which is around the first signs of normalization of activity growth are materializing after several quarters of intense recovery. Like, which regions are you talking about, specifically, in your comment there? And then just also on your RevPAR guidance, like, how are you thinking about that across regions and segments, and kind of what's your visibility on Q4 at this point? Thank you.
Thank you for the question. So normalization really refers to North America, where... And you see that in the STR data. So our performance is no different than what you see in the STR data. So we're still seeing, you know, a couple of positive, let's say, points of growth in NorAm, but it's obviously not double-digit growth as you see in our collision, and that's what we, you know, that's what we mean by normalization. But it's really only in North America that we see that.
With respect to, you know, regions like segments, you know, as I not only has the growth in the quarter been very steady across each month of the quarter, but it's also been very steady across each region and each segment. You see that at the division level, actually, when you look at-- and I know we're not talking about 2019 anymore, because it's a long time ago. But when you look at third quarter growth versus 2019, it's actually a couple of points better than second quarter growth versus 2019. So we still see, obviously, you know, it's decelerating when you look year-over-year, given the base effect of 2022.
But when you look versus 2019, third quarter is a couple of points in each region and segment better than the increase we saw in the second quarter versus 2019. And I'm sorry, I forgot your third question.
Thank you. I just had two.
Okay.
Thank you. As a final reminder to ask a question at this time, please signal by pressing star one. We'll pause for just a brief moment to allow you to signal. Thank you. As there are no further questions at this time, this concludes today's question and answer session. With this, I'd like to hand the call back over to Martine Gerow for any additional or closing remarks. Over to you, ma'am.
Thank you. Well, thank you all for your questions and for, you know, listening, and I wish everyone a very good rest of the day.
Thank you. This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation, ladies and gentlemen. You may now disconnect. Thank you.