Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Atos Group FY 2025 results conference call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question and answer session. To ask a question during the session, you will need to press star one and one on your telephone. You will then hear an automated message advising your hand is raised. To withdraw your question, please press star one and one again. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, Philippe Salle, Group Chairman and CEO. Please go ahead.
Hello. Good morning, everybody. Thank you for joining us for this call of the full year results of 2025. I'm here in the room with Jacques-François, the CFO, and Florin, our CTO, because we're going to talk also a lot about technology. As of course, we're going to talk about the future of the company. The agenda of today is 4 topics. The first one is 2025 business and strategic outline that I will manage. Florin will take the floor to our tech update. Today we are announcing 2 things with the launch of Atos Simplify and the launch of our Agentic Studios. I will come back on operational and financial results with Jacques-François. We're going to have together this section. I will finish by year outlook. We take Q&A.
Let's start with the first part, and I'm going to go on page 6. 2025 was the year for me of the reset. Remember that I want to have 3 phases, I would say, in the turnaround of the company: reset, rebound, acceleration. 2025 is the reset and 2026 is the rebound. In 2025, first, we have a very good financial improvement with clear signs of recovery. We see that. Second, a significant progress, of course, of our Genesis Plan. The third is that we have a positive business momentum and a commercial, I would say, traction. If we go on page 7, the key numbers of the company, first in terms of top line, the revenue that at EUR 8.001 billion to be really clear.
Above the target that we have set during the Q3, the last call in fact. Operating margin, EUR 351 million. It's 4.4%. Just for information, that's the best margin we have for the last five years. I think I'm very pleased to say that we have doubled the margin versus last year with a decreasing top line of -14%. Remember that we have guided at EUR 340 million at the beginning of 2025. Net change in cash, it's -EUR 326 million. Although we have accelerated, I would say Genesis, and we pay in fact roughly EUR 450 million of exit costs. It's better of course than our guidance that would say that it will be EUR 350 million or below.
The liquidity, and we published this already in January, is EUR 1.7 billion. With far below of course the, I would say the covenant that we have in our debt package, that is of EUR 650 million. We have ample cash to finish the Genesis Plan. In fact, this year we are already cash flow positive and the debt in fact will go down. If we go on page 8, you can see the inflection point in terms of revenues. The fourth quarter, and that the figure we have published in fact in January was around -9%. You can see, I would say quarter by quarter, that we have in fact a deceleration or let's say less momentum. I would say better momentum in terms of revenue decrease.
You can see also the number between Atos and Eviden and the organic growth that we have, which is around -9% in Q4. In terms of the OM, so the EBIT, the pro forma of 2024, for your information, without Worldgrid that we have sold in 2024 and at a constant exchange rate is EUR 172. You can see that we have more than double the margin and the margin was beyond 2% in 2024. In terms of 2025, it's at 4.4%. In terms of cash flow, the net change in cash was roughly -EUR 700 million in 2024, and we have roughly -EUR 300 million in 2025.
If we go to page 9, you can see also that the backlog, the book-to-bill, excuse me, has also improved in the course of 2025, at 94% for H2. The total book-to-bill in fact for 2025 was 89% versus 82% in 2024. If we go to Genesis on page 10, remember exactly the, I would say the plan that we have sketched in May of 2025 with the 7 pillar. This is I would say exactly what we have shown, in fact, in May. I will now, if I go on page 11, a little bit deep dive on what we have done. On the first pillar, we have reviewed the top 100 accounts and, I would say, produced 1 billion+ of opportunities.
Remember that during the CMD, I have said that the number of business line per account was around 1.4, and we want to push it, of course, to 2 or above, I would say that level. We have also in terms of growth, streamline, I would say the processes, a better organization in terms of sales with sales people in the different geos and Eviden. In terms of HR, we have reviewed the bonus framework. We have launched our ATI plan with a share plan for the top 200, and we have started also to have a leadership culture. This year, we're going to push very hard on the AI culture. In terms of country reviews, we have roughly 10 countries that are exited or inactive.
Remember that we want to go probably above around 40 countries. We have also sold 7 countries in Latin America and also in Nordic, which is Norway and Finland. This year, we want to continue to probably close or make inactive around 20 countries. In terms of portfolio review, first we have sketched the different branding. You have Atos Group, which is the holding, and under Atos Group, you have 3 brands now. Atos, of course, the service company. Eviden is product and software, and Atos Amplify is the new name that we are launching today for the consulting arm. We have 6 in Atos, 6 business lines and 6 geos. With Eviden, after the disposal of Bull, the high computing, we will have 3 product lines.
In terms of PM and GM, in terms of project margin and gross margin, that's the way we look at our P&L internally. You have revenues, project margin, gross margin, EBIT margin. We have a, I would say, a plan. Remember that we are looking at EUR 660 million of savings, we have already achieved 88% of it. EUR 360 roughly million are in the P&L in fact of 25, EUR 200 million more to come in fact in the course of 2026. We have increased the billability ratio by 3 x. We are now above 80%. We have also continued, I would say, to push the offshoring. As you can see, we have also a different, I would say, actions on the reduction of the subcos.
It's just a switching, I would say, of bench people. I will prefer, of course, to use, I would say, utilize people on the bench and of course as of course. Just for information, very important, the de-risking also on the new contract we have signed. Remember that we want to have a margin of 25%-26% in the future. In fact, if you look at without the Bull contract, we are already at that level. On average, last year, we have signed roughly all the contracts are on the book-to-bill, so the EUR 8 billion+, EUR 7 billion+, excuse me, is around 24%, which is roughly 2.5% above what we have done in the course of 2024.
It's very important to understand that we could have probably a better book-to-bill in the course of 2025, but the idea was really to protect the margin, and I prefer to say no for some tender than, I would say, to have, let's say, more revenue than less margin in the future. Pillar 6 is the cost review, is the G&A. We have done a lot of things there. For your information, we reduced the G&A by roughly 26%. Remember that the target we have in G&A is 5%, and we are close to 6, so we still have 1 point to gain in the course of this year and next year. In terms of cash for the Pillar 7, the DSO is at target.
We have reduced our use by 13%, reduced the WIP, in fact, for the billing by roughly 27%. We have managed quite very well, I would say, the CapEx. Without Bull, in fact, we are at EUR 100 million plus. Just on the bottom, you'll see also that we have completely reviewed the target operating model on the top and also the government have been simplified. If we go on page 12, today we are launching, as I said, two things. I'm going to talk on Amplify, then we're going to talk on the Agentic Studio with Florin. Amplify, that's the consulting arm or body, I would say, of Atos. It's still the brand of Atos because it's very linked to the services that we provide with Atos.
The idea is that we're going to refocus Amplify on AI. The idea for us, it's a door opener, in fact, in artificial intelligence that will help us after that, of course, to push the Studio that we are going to. In terms of workforce on page 13, we are now at 63,000. You can see the hiring, the leave of, and also the restructuring we have done. If you want to see without Latin America and without Bull, we are close to 57,000 people. That's the number of staff that we're going to have after the divestment. Last on page 14, that's the order book. We have roughly, we have the key numbers. As you can see, the renewal rate, in fact, is 92%. It's not bad.
I want to have a little bit more this year. In fact, in this year, for the larger accounts, what we call the large bid, over EUR 30 million per year, we estimate that we're going to win most of them or all of them, in fact. The number of strategic deals, 19. It was 10, in fact, in 2024. There's a good section, in fact, in cloud, cyber, and data AI, where the business line we are pushing more than the rest. You can see, I would say, different names on the, I would say, extension or win. For Siemens, again, of course, we continue to work with them. We're going to do probably EUR 250 million in fact in the course of 2026.
Last on page 15, just to also recognize that we also continue, I would say, to be recognized as a sustainability in the IT sector, is very important. We have won a review that would say some award in terms of sustainability. You can see it on the left. Many business awards from the analysts that we continue to have in the course of 2025. I go quite fast, in fact, because I think it's very important that we spend some time on the technology today because there have been a lot of buzz on AI and probably a completely crazy movement for me on the share price in the different companies, Atos also. We estimate, in fact, that for us, we are very well placed in AI. In fact, we don't do BPO.
That is probably the, I would say, the business that is going to be attacked for me by agentic. Definitely, I think that there is a big opportunity for us, in fact, with AI going forward. With this, I give the floor to Florin in the room with us, and he's going to talk about you about, I would say, the AI and the agentic we're going to launch this, in fact, today.
Thank you so much, Philippe. Good morning, everybody. Thank you for joining us. Delighted to be here. What I suggest we do for the next few minutes is for me to walk you through the way that we see the market developing in general in the space of technology, and I will double-click on AI, of course. I will share with you how we are planning on attacking and delivering this very exciting space. I'm sure you're well familiar with the fact that global AI spending is booming. A lot of increase in AI infrastructure, AI services, AI software, AI cyber, and we genuinely and truly believe that Atos is very well placed to win in all of those areas. We do have some very strong modes.
The background and the history of Atos, as you all know, is to work and help our clients in highly regulated environments where security is a top concern, where sovereignty is increasingly becoming a priority, where the IT landscape is very complex, and where a lot of the systems are truly life and death, and are genuinely mission-critical. What we see happening is that in all of those environments, there is a flywheel convergence happening between sovereignty, AI, and cyber. The fact that we have this decades-long managed services relationships with the clients, the fact that we have really deep know-how of their environment, of their data, has truly enabled us to progress very fast into packaging those into agentic AI as a service offerings. I will cover this in more detail. As you know, the technology space is quite complex right now.
It's evolving super fast. There are daily announcements from left, right, and center. Our clients are really hungry for a level of clarity and assurance. I think we play a very important role as, if I'm allowed to use the word, Switzerland of governance, the ones which are able to provide secure cross-platform, neutral agentic AI. We're doing this through a very exciting set of partnership with the big players, but also through a set of unique partnerships with AI native and sovereign startups. Let me double-click on all of this into more detail. If we go on the next slide, what you'll see is the three big bets for Atos going forward. We believe these three pillars are going to be substantial drivers of growth for us in 2026 and beyond. The first one is mission-critical agentic AI.
This type of agentic AI is fairly different to the type of AI that is most commonly mentioned in media. When you're doing agentic AI in really complex regulated environments with high level of governance, requirements around sovereignty, reliability, security and responsibility, the type of technology and the type of services is fairly different. We're also seeing digital sovereignty be super important for our clients. Actually, this is the case in North America, in Europe, and international markets as well. What we're doing is that we have embedded digital sovereignty as a core design principle across all of our portfolio. Last but not least, cybersecurity, of course, continues to be a high area of focus. Development in AI are of course, helping us to deliver cybersecurity services in a better, faster, more efficient way.
AI actually, of course, also opens up new attack surfaces and new potential vulnerabilities. What we see happening is that there is this flywheel of self-reinforcement powers between AI, sovereignty, and cyber, and we believe we have the right to be winners in all of these three areas. Sovereignty, of course, requires security controls to be able to be fully enabled. Sovereignty is by definition more complex than non-sovereign solutions, and therefore AI can play a role to make them more affordable and more innovative. As I mentioned, AI has a huge impact on security. There is a quest to secure AI, but also to use AI to drive more security solutions. You will hear us going forward, really focusing on doubling down on these three areas.
What I would like to do is to double-click into each and every single one of those to give you a flavor of what we're doing, the success we've seen so far, what we see happening in the marketplace, and to give you a glimpse into the future. If we go to the next Slide 19. We are very excited to have four Atos Sovereign Agentic Studios come out of stealth mode in U.K., in U.S., France and Germany. This will serve the local markets based on their needs, the focus industries, their requirements, and they're all built for truly mission-critical production from day one, with extraordinarily high focus on the topics which make AI adoption at scale more difficult in most organizations, which is governance, sovereignty, reliability, security, and responsibility.
The reason we're launching these studios is that we see that our clients' spend is converging services and technology budgets into a unified value pool. This value pool and the size of those budgets are increasing, of course. There's also a very high demand for measurable value generation at scale. Everybody is sick and tired of pilots and proof of concepts and prototypes. Organizations really want to make sure that they have AI which is secure, which is reliable, which adds business value at scale. The main challenges in this space is governance and orchestration. This is where we believe that Atos is an absolute key power player. We're actually also seeing sovereignty emerge for AI as a very high priority.
Our clients are very happy to use closed black box models for the typical back-office functions, which are important, but which are not differentiated. They actually are increasingly becoming wary of developing their own brains, so to say, so they own their future, and they have full control of their data, the controls, and the intelligence which they're building. We are very excited to announce a unique partnership with one of the absolute leaders in foundational models for agentic enterprise, which is Poolside. This will allow us to deploy and develop sovereign solutions in Europe, in North America, in international markets. This will help, and is helping already our clients, to harness the full power of AI on their terms and without compromise.
We're of course also working with the major market leaders here, such as Google Cloud, SAP, IBM, AWS, Microsoft. As a little anecdote, we've just received Frontier Partner status with Microsoft, given the fact that we're one of the leading organizations leading the path around AI and innovation. We're also working with this really interesting set of AI native startups, which allow us to add unique value across the entire value chain of AI. We're using KYP, which stands for Know Your Potential, to help our clients mine and redesign processes and to really understand the business case and the value generated with AI on a very specific and data-driven manner.
We're working with the likes of Ema and n8n to create and orchestrate and manage the digital AI employees, the agents. We're working with PayEye to really be able to measure and value the highly, how should I put it, movable cost of AI consumption and to have the causality and the correlation to value. We're working with Clarity around helping our clients drive this continuous change. We're using all of this technology for our own back-office and front-office transformation as well. I know I've used, you know, a lot of words here, a lot of concepts, but let me move to the next stage and try to make this very real for you with a number of client examples. To be honest, we have more demand than we can almost handle right now.
We have incredible interest in this Agentic AI studios, and just sharing with you a couple of examples here. One is Scottish Water, where we're working together to really transform the way they are doing operational planning, risk assessment, decision-making across the entire national and wastewater networks. This is really mission-critical environments where AI agents are used to continuously monitor the network, to analyze proposed changes, to automatically generate contextual risk assessments. As you can imagine, you know, this is the type of AI which really needs to work, which really needs to be secure, which really needs to be accurate and timely. Another example is Defra, the U.K. Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. Their mission is to make the air purer, the water cleaner, the land greener, and food more sustainable.
Obviously, very important mission and vision. What we're doing with Atos is that we're using a new set of highly differentiated, agentic AI solutions we have developed to rapidly modernize and transform their entire application portfolio. We call those digital transformation engineers. They're AI agents which work in collaboration with our human experts to achieve things which frankly wouldn't have been possible to achieve just a few months ago. We're seeing a close to 30% time to market efficiency gain around how to modernize those mission-critical applications. Another example is mBank. We are really working very closely with them to develop their entire advanced digital foundation. Again, this is not AI, which is an add-on.
It is mission-critical AI, which is being used to improve operational resilience, to create real efficiency in their business, to manage risk, and to really make a difference around their customer experience. There are many, many, many more examples of this. We're very proud about this Agentic Sovereign Studios. Much more to come in this space going forward. If I go to the next slide, I'd like to share with you the perspective around how we're approaching the sovereign space. What we see is that clients, they have an increasing desire to retain control, authority, and accountability over their data, their infrastructure, their applications, and digital operations, and to have this be in compliance with all the applicable regulations to minimize dependency, exposure, and disruption risk.
I think it's important to note that this is not just a European development. We see sovereign requirements being very high in North America as well, both in United States and in Canada, and also in our international markets. In actual fact, there are data points which point to the fact that over 80% of requirements from clients going forward are going to include a critical demand for sovereignty. This is a massive business opportunity. It's currently estimated to be in the EUR 40 billion-EUR 60 billion of total addressable market, and it is growing quite fast. Frankly, we believe that we are one of, if not the best player in this space.
I'd like to draw your attention to the quote on the bottom right corner from one of the leading independent analysts, which is basically, and I'm quoting, "Few players can claim the unique combination offered by the Atos Group, an umbrella of sovereignty, which provides the whole with an unprecedented coherence." We are able to do this in a variety of models because sovereignty takes different shapes and forms in different countries. What U.K. means by sovereignty is slightly different than what France and Germany means by sovereignty, which is different than what U.S. means by sovereignty and so forth. We're able to offer this full spectrum of solutions ranging from enhanced native clouds to controlled clouds, to trusted clouds, to disconnected clouds, to fully sovereign AI, as I mentioned previously. I would like to give you, again, a little example of this.
One of them is EUROCONTROL. EUROCONTROL, you might be familiar with. They are the organization which manage and control the European skies. They are providing a really mission-critical service to the entire continent. If their systems and operations wouldn't work, and flights would not fly, that would obviously have a very, very high impact on the entire economy. What Atos is doing is that we're one of their leading partners to ensure the strict resiliency, safety, security, compliance requirements around the entire IT value chain. We do this in a way which is coherent, is aligned with the industry regulation and generally spans infrastructure, application, artificial intelligence, and so forth. This is a solution where we are partnering with Microsoft as well around the Azure cloud.
If we move on to cyber, that is of course, a very hot topic and it continues to be so. What we're seeing is that AI security has really changed the game. It's become the primary focus area for the way our clients spend. AI is truly redefining threats, defenses, and vastly expands the attack surface. Cybersecurity is shifting to an always-on compliance model, where our clients are requiring very much verifiable controls and sovereignty-aware architectures. Again, this is a space which is moving super fast and really redefining the game. To give you a little anecdote, it is estimated that there are 80 x more machine identities in any organization today compared with human identities. This is, of course, because of the advent of agentic AI.
That type of AI, where you have agents which perhaps only need to have split-second life cycles, they need to be controlled, they need to have verifiable access controls, they need to be spun up and potentially terminated in under a second, really redefines the rules of the game. We believe that we are super well positioned in this space. We have very much an end-to-end best-in-class set of cybersecurity services ranging from advisory, which Philippe just mentioned. We have very much embedded AI agents in our entire life cycle of threat intelligence, threat detection, investigation, and response. We're also, we believe, one of the market leaders in post-quantum cryptography. Of course, with the Eviden Group, we have some fantastic EU-European sovereign cybersecurity products.
Again, to make this real, I'd like to give you a sense of the work that we're doing with the European Commission. This is one of the most important cybersecurity services in Europe, full stop. Atos is on point and has won a substantial framework agreement to provide operations, incident response, digital forensics, threat intelligence, threat monitoring, offensive security in the areas of vulnerability management, penetration testing, and red teaming. Again, I draw your attention to a number of independent analysts which continue to recognize us as a market leader in the cybersecurity space. Let's move on to the next slide and try to give you a big picture of where we're at and how we see AI impacting our businesses.
This might be a little bit of a busy slide, please give me a chance to walk you through it. At the bottom of the slide, you're seeing our different historical business lines with data and AI, cyber, Eviden, and so forth. The Harvey balls are representing the way we see AI impacting those specific business areas. On the top row, you're seeing how AI is impacting the addressable market expansion with the full Harvey ball, meaning it is very high expansion, i.e., more opportunities for us, or a limited partial Harvey ball, demonstrating or indicating a limited expansion. The AI top-line pressure row is basically a way of indicating how we see AI impacting or having the potential to impact our top-line revenue, ranging from low to high.
all in all, we see AI being a strong driver for growth in Atos. We are very much on the offensive. We believe that AI is a game changer, and we are super well positioned in this space. The important bit to mention here is that we have a leading position in a number of these building blocks in the colorful table below. What we are doing very successfully is to combine and recombine them into this Three big bets that I've been talking to for the last few minutes. Again, please remember the growth engines of Atos are agentic AI, digital sovereignty, and cybersecurity. We're seeing substantial opportunities and a lot of momentum in those in those areas. We truly believe we have the right to win.
Moving on to the last slide, as a little bit of summary. We are still going through a massive transformation. We've turned the corner. We are reimagining, and we have reimagined the entire technology function in Atos. We're attracting some absolute top-notch talent. We have done a full portfolio redesign, doubling down on agentic AI and AI in general, digital sovereignty and cyber. We have a very unique and differentiated approach to sovereignty and security. We're boldly and ambitiously embracing this new world of services software, where increasingly we are building very unique, very specialized AI solutions powered by software to augment and enhance our services. The Agentic Sovereign Studios, which we have just launched, are really a showcase of much more to come.
We really look forward to sharing with you, progress and a lot of success in this space. Having said that, handing over to my colleague, Jacques-François, to walk you through some interesting numbers.
Thank you very much. Thank you, Florin. We take the lead. Before Jacques-Françoi, it's okay. In fact, Florin, you're right. We're going to have a special press release on the Agentic next week on the 11th. We're going to comment much more in detail on what exactly we're going to do in the coming weeks and months, of course. Now going back on the topic number 3 on the presentation. We go to page 26. You can see the revenues of 2025 versus last year. We produce also the pro forma without the foreign exchange and scope. Scope is One Grid, of course, in 2024. As you see, -13% in terms of sales.
If we go to page 27, you have the EUR 8 billion between Eviden and also Atos in blue. Then in the different countries, Germany is number one, North America, France, U.K., and then international market, and what we call BNN, which is Benelux and the Nordics. If you look on the right, this is the EUR 7.2 billion. That's the pro forma of 2025 without Latin America and without Bull. You can see that the base, we're going to rebound for this year. You see now, I would say what is the split of revenues between Eviden. Of course, much smaller on the EUR 1 trillion plus. I would say Atos with different geos.
If we go to page 28, I'm very proud to say that we have doubled the margin in terms of EBIT and in terms of % more than that. Pro forma in 2024, we had EUR 172 million of EBIT. Last year we touched EUR 361. It's more than doubling in terms of profitability and also a margin at 4.4%. As I said, that's the biggest margin we have since 2021. If you look at the operating margin by geography on page 29, I will not go into detail, but you can see on the left column, that's the results of 2025. On the right, that's the pro forma without Bull and without Latin America.
That's the rebound for the EUR 7.2 billion and EUR 314. That's the base, in fact, of the rebound for 2025, 2026, sorry. I will go very quickly on the different business units, but you can think of it in Atos for the 6 geos, we have done quite a very good job. Germany, we start first, minus 10% on the top line. Tough year. We know so that some of the clients, for example, Deutsche Bank, have decided to exit. For example, for Deutsche Bank, it was a re-internalization of their platform, so it was nothing to do with Atos. Germany is for the first time probably of many year on a positive territory. As I said to you, this year, we probably close to EUR 100 million. I think the budget is EUR 190.
We, we have, I would say with Genesis, more to come, of course, in the course of 2026. Atos North America on page 31. That's the area that has been touched more, I would say, in terms of top line. A lot of clients have been frightened in the course of 2024 and we, they stop, of course, some of the contracts. As you can see, of course, the EBIT in terms of quantum is less than, 2024. In terms of margin, we are double digit, and I think it has been a very good job done by the U.S. team. If we go to France, the decrease is around -10%. Also I would say, however, we have a decrease in terms of top line.
We have been able, I would say, to stabilize the earnings a little bit more, in fact. Of course, with Genesis, there is more to come in the course of 2026. Now, U.K. and Ireland also is an area on page 33 where we have had also a big hit, exactly like in the U.S. In fact, it has been a tough year because of a lot of clients stopping to work with us and stopping contracts. As you can see, we have been flat in terms of EBIT, EUR 103 at EUR 83 versus EUR 82. In terms of margin, we have increased the margin by roughly 1.6%. International market is down also at like -15%, but we have more than doubled the profitability.
We have done a very good job, in fact, in the Genesis transformation in different countries, in Middle East, in also South Europe and also in Asia. Last, Benelux, where I would say probably we have been the more resilient in terms of top line. So we are on page 35, -4% in terms of inorganic growth. So a decrease in terms of organic, let's say. A very good job from the team on the bottom line. As you can see, we have multiplied by 10 roughly the EBIT with a margin around 7%. As you can see, in fact, despite of course, the top line, I would say, pressure, we have been able, I would say, to manage very well the bottom line. Last slide on 36 is from Eviden.
Of course, this is the part that is growing, and it's mainly of Bull, the advanced computing activity. This activity was losing money, in fact, in 2024, and we have done quite a good job to restore some profitability. It's still too low for me, but definitely there is more to come in this business unit. With this, I hand over to Jacques-François to go more on the P&L and balance sheet.
Okay, thank you, Philippe. Good morning, everybody. Now that Philippe has gone through the drivers of our business operational performance, let me walk you through the P&L items below operating, as well as the cash flow statement and the balance sheet. As Philippe has indicated, our operating margin amounted to EUR 351 million in fiscal year 2025. We incurred reorganization and rationalization charges for EUR 642 million in total, of which EUR 540 million reorganization costs, as we made significant progress in the execution of our restructuring program, and EUR 102 million provision related to leases and real estate asset impairments. We impaired EUR 166 million of goodwill this year as a result of the upcoming disposal of the advanced computing business. Other items reached - EUR 331 million.
They included losses related to some onerous contracts for EUR 123 million and litigation provisions for EUR 145 million. The net cost of our debt reached EUR 333 million, up from EUR 178 million last year, reflecting our new debt structure, post 2024 refinancing and including peak interest, as well as the amortization of 2024 fair value adjustment. Other financial expenses were EUR 102 million in fiscal year 2025 due to debt lease tensions and provisions on non-consolidated investments. As a result, our net income group share amounted to - EUR 1.4 billion. On the next page, we see the cash flow generation, which improved significantly year on year from -EUR 735 million in 2024 to -EUR 326 million in fiscal year 2025.
We generated EUR 883 million OMDA in fiscal year 2025. We expensed EUR 170 million in CapEx and EUR 278 million in leases. Our change in working capital requirements, once we neutralize for the working capital actions, you recall that the unsolicited cash received in advance from some customers, this amounted to a positive EUR 33 million. It essentially reflected a lower activity level in 2025. Going forward, we expect further sustainable working capital improvements. Our cash restructuring expense was EUR 445 million. As expected, cash out accelerated in the second half of the year. Tax paid was EUR 31 million. Cash cost of debt, EUR 160 million. Onerous contracts and litigation amounted to EUR 157 million.
As a result, our net change in cash was limited to EUR 326 million , better than anticipated, despite higher restructuring costs, cash at EUR 445 million . The net debt. As at December 31st, 2025, the net debt was EUR 1.8 billion compared to EUR 1.2 billion as at December 31st, 2024. Beyond free cash flow, it reflected the impact of the change in working capital actions for EUR 43 million , negative Forex impact for EUR 104 million , and other elements such as the peak component of the debt. Net debt consisted firstly of cash and cash equivalents for EUR 1.265 billion , and secondly, borrowings for a nominal value of EUR 3.64 billion .
As at December 31st, 2025, the group financial leverage ratio was very similar to the end of 2024 level at 3.17 x. I remind you that our target is to reduce leverage below 1.5 x at the end of the year 2028. Thank you. I now hand over back to Philippe.
Thank you, Jacques-François. Let's go to the section, which is the outlook. On page 42 first, we want to come back on what is Atos now without Bull that we will give the keys at the end of the month, in fact, end of March, without also Latin America that we have sold, and the closing is expected in fact in April, and also the small divestiture that we have done in the Nordics. On the left-hand side, you can see that the revenue is EUR 7.2 billion. Operating margin is EUR 314 million, and that's the pro forma without, as I said, the new perimeter. Roughly 57,000-58,000 people without Bull and Latin America and 54 countries of operation.
As I say, we want to be below the 40 threshold, so we continue to reduce the perimeter in this topic. On the right, you can see the different business line, the different geography. Number 1 market is now Germany, North America number 2, France number 3, and UK and Ireland number 4. As you can see, these 4 countries is roughly more than 70% of our total revenues. Then you can see also the industry. Now, the financial ambition is on page 43. I know that a lot of people are waiting this moment. The guidance for the 3 elements, which is top line, bottom line, and cash. On the top line, we are looking for a positive organic growth.
That's the budget that we have internally. We want to say that there is also a down time scenario possible that is limited to -5%. It's very important that we are cautious. We don't want to over give, I would say, confidence. It's very important that we deliver the number that we announce. That's why we say that, of course, the budget is and our target internally is to grow. It could, I would say there are, let's say, some less good news in terms of top line. The maximum we can see this year is -5%. Remember, we were at -14%. Of course, the first half year will be negative, and we estimate that will be probably around -9% to -10% in Q1.
It will of course stabilize in Q3 and rebound in Q3 or in Q4. Operating margin around 7%. It means that it's indeed, let's say, around EUR 500 million. It's an increase by 60%. Now that is 2025, which is very important. We are on road, I would say, to the journey to touch the 10% margin by 2028. The positive net change in cash. It's without Bull, without, I would say, the divestiture of course of Bull. It means that with the cash that we're going to produce this year, plus of course the cash we're going to have from the M&A, the debt will be reduced. The EBIT will increase, the leverage for sure is going to decrease strongly in fact in the course of 2026.
We are very, I would say, very confident that we're going to produce cash this year. I think it's the result of course of this Genesis Plan that we have accelerated in the course of 2025. For 2028, we continue to say that the 3 phase, as I said, reset in 2025, rebound in 2026, accelerate now in 2027 and 2028. We continue to see an acceleration of the top line between 5% and 7%. We track probably to be better than that. Still looking at an operating margin around 10%. Of course, the deleveraging to be below the 1.5% net debt by the end of that, the way we calculate this, in the course of 2028.
To have a profile of double digit and triple digit probably in the course of 2029. That's the goal we have. If I have to sum up, I would say what we have said today with Florin and Jacques-François. On page 44. First, we have restored the foundations of Atos. We are very pleased to say that we have met or exceeded the financial guidance that we have set. We have done a lot of job, in fact, in the commercial strategy, and I definitely think it's going to give a lot of results. In fact, I would say the Genesis cost, it's a 1-2 year effect. We have done most of the plan in 2025. We will finish in 2026. The rebound, it's a 2-3 year effort.
We have done a lot of job in 2025. We're going to see some of the results in the course of 2026. I definitely think that we're going to accelerate in the course of 2027. As I said, the Genesis Plan, we have done roughly 80% in terms of savings. It's a pro forma, we have of course part of it in the P&L of 2025. There is more to come of course in the P&L of 2026. Second, I think we are very well placed for the AI journey. I think Atos has a unique position. We're going to reinforce, as I said, the three tech pillars that Florin has said. Agentic AI, the launch of the studio, more to come next week. Sovereignty and cyber.
Remember also that we have launched also the consulting, which rebranded, I would say, Atos Amplify. Today we are announcing the launch of Amplify and also the launch of the Agentic Studio. We have in fact a new website that you can see on Atos Group. We have a quite a promising outlook on the right page, right half of this page. Stabilization in 2026, with a rebound in H2, acceleration of top line and of course, production of a lot of cash in the course of 2027 and 2028.
When we can probably resume M&A, we see there are targets that are interesting, but it's also possible that we do probably less because we estimate that with agentic we have a lot of opportunities we're going to have, and we probably will try also to invest in the company more in our studios. With this, I turn to the Q&A session that is open. I will give the floor to Florin or Jacques-François, depending on your questions.
Thank you. If you would like to ask a question, you will need to press star one and one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star one and one again. Thank you. The first question today is from Frederic Boulan from Bank of America. Please go ahead.
Good morning, Philippe and Jacques-François. Two questions for me. Interesting discussion on your AI offering. Would be keen to understand how you define your competitive edge versus your key global competitors and players. More broadly, looking at your midterm targets, [5 terms], the kind of growth ambition, what kind of upside do you anticipate and have you penciled in on that kind of segment versus potential pressure on traditional, I mean, digital transformation as you mentioned on that slide? Maybe as a 2nd question, is there any, you know, would you have an update on the kind of current, you know, pricing environment?
Any kind of areas of your business where you do see kind of, you know, margins going down on new projects? I mean, you mentioned some of competitive bids where you walked away, where you do see already today, you know, GenAI driving some price deflation. Thank you.
In fact, Frederic, you have to understand, I think the slide of Florin, and which I think is not the most important, but I would say the Slide 23.
Yeah.
The way we look at it is very simple. In fact, AI is going to touch the company in two types of, let's say two types of impact. There is an impact on the coding, so the digital application, where we definitely think we're going to go faster and cheaper. That's why we say there is a net positive immediate impact. Here, in fact, what we see is that we're not going to impact the top line that much, but we're going to produce much more for the same price. What we see from CIOs and the budget right now is that they are accelerating, in fact, their plan, because there is a lot to do, in fact, in digitalization in many companies.
In fact, we can probably do probably twice as much that we were able, I would say, to provide in the past. We definitely think that, in fact, with AI, coding and testing is very simplified, and we can produce much more than we have done in the past with probably less people. The cost, I think there is no impact on the top line. It's just the fact that we're going to accelerate the project, and we're going to provide more. The second impact is the rest, is the Agentic Studio, so the AI on our operations, for example, on CMMI, et cetera.
There, we definitely think that it's a big opportunity because we definitely think that with AI, we're going to provide more services or accelerate, for example, some works that we act, I would say, by the client. We don't see for the moment, for example, from a big tender, we're going to announce one probably in the course of March, a very big one. We fight, and it's a very long contract on CMMI. In fact, the margin is up because also we apply also agentic on our own delivery. We pass, of course, some of, I would say, the savings to the clients, but we protect the margin of Atos in fact in the future. That's why we say we are quite positive.
Probably, Florin, you want to enter on the strategic, I would say, advantage or competitive advantage we have versus the competition.
Yeah, sure thing. If we go to Slide 17, I'll give you a summary of it. I think one of the key differentiators is the fact that we have this very long relationships and know-how with a number of really important clients. What we've been able to do is to bottle up this decades long insight and data from running hundreds, if not thousands, of managed services, and long-running engagements into a series of agents, which are sitting on unique Atos foundational models. If you remember previously in the presentation, I mentioned our collaboration with Poolside. We are creating a frontier level model, which is Atos native, which packages up this know-how, developed of the processes and the data built over decades, which we're providing on a agentic as a service model.
I think the, you know, the other differentiation we would have is this experience of working in highly regulated, secure, mission-critical environments. You'll need to remember that, you know, most of the time when people talk about AI today and agents, it's around, you know, things like customer service or B2C or call centers, you know, and AI is frankly fairly easy to implement in those environments. The accuracy just needs to be good enough, and, you know, to be very direct if a customer who calls a call center does not get the right answer, the, you know, the sky does not fall down. On the other hand, the type of agentic AI that we specialize in, like the super mission-critical one, it's a completely different ballgame in terms of robustness and industrialization.
You know, if our AI agents would not work properly when there is a flooding in Scotland, then we have a serious problem. If the AI solutions that we're creating together with EUROCONTROL would not work properly, well, then you have massive flight delays in Europe, and the entire economy loses $1 billion a day. I think this know-how we have based on our heritage of working in, you know, areas which some people consider non-sexy, if I'm allowed to use that word, it's turning into a competitive advantage for us. We really know how to work, how to make AI work in those environments. You know, you see some of the recognition we have in this space. ISG has recognized us as an absolute leader in advanced analytics and services.
We've just made a leader in all four market segments with NelsonHall around the transforming business operations with GenAI and so, and so forth. To summarize, we're neutral. We're the Switzerland of governance. We know how to make AI work in these super difficult environments, and we have bottled and packaged this know-how into unique models and unique agents which nobody else would be able to replicate.
Thank you, Florin. Next question.
Thank you. We'll now take the next question. This is from Nicolas David from ODDO BHF. Please go ahead.
Yes. Good morning, Philippe, Jacques-François and Florin. I have three question on my side. The first one is regarding the cash guidance. Can you help us reconcile how this net change in cash you expect for 2026 is comparable to what could be a free cash flow to equity definitions? What could be the difference between the two in term of cash collection or cash outflow? The second question is regarding the provision you have passed in 2025. The EUR 123 million on this contract notably. Can you help us understand if it's just a cost overrun on last year and it was linked to cash out last year?
Is it a provision for multi-year upcoming losses on the contract you identified? Do you expect more in 2026 if you review more contracts? Regarding the litigation, when do you expect the potential cash out? The last question I have is what would be your strategy regarding the debt refinancing, given that the debt market for tech companies is getting more tight right now? Thank you.
Okay. I will just answer the last question, then I give the floor to Jacques-François for the first two. The door is open for us to renegotiate the debt after one year. In fact, since we closed on December of last year, in 2025. What we have done is that we are prepared to take any opportunity to refinance the debt. As you said, right now, the door is closed just because the markets are not in a good shape. We will wait until there is an opportunity, we will see. Could be in March, could be in different other period.
I think the message is that we are ready to do part of the refinancing. As soon as the door is, I would say the window is opening again, we will probably decide an opportunity on this one. Okay. We'll see what happens in the course of 2026. I don't have a crystal ball. It's difficult also because of course you said for the tech it has been shaky I would say in February. With Iran, I'm not sure it's going to be less shaky in course, in the course of March. Let's wait and be patient, but if there is an opportunity we're going to take it. For the two, the two first questions I'll let Jacques-François to answer them.
Nicolas. The net change in cash is the way we call internally this free cash flow, which you're referring to. There are no reasons for differences. Just in our guidance, we are excluding the repayment of debt. We keep in there the interest to serve the debt, but the repayment of debt is excluded. Is FX impact, so is M&A. That's the first question. Second question is regarding the provisions for onerous contract, and other items, basically. In terms of onerous contracts, Philippe has mentioned quite regularly in the calls that we had still a couple of significant black accounts on which we are losing some money. We have, can I say the duty to assess these contracts regularly.
Of course, management is going to mitigate with action plans to reduce the losses and, to be clear, we're also trying to exit. So far we are bound. In our reviews at the end of fiscal year 2025, we have decided to provide more for future losses. At this stage, you should not expect additional provisions to be added in 2026 because the review we have done is quite prudent and should be comprehensive to cover all the future.
In terms of litigation, well, by definition, it's a bit uncertain, and it doesn't depend on us. I'm afraid I cannot give you really a timing for the cash out of these provisions. You will recall that the bulk of the litigation provisions has already been booked in H1 2025. There is not so much which has been added in the second half of 2025.
In terms of record content, I know you read the content, so don't worry. As I said, we are trying quite a very icy project, and we are still managing the last 2 accounts in the U.K.. Again, one account should finish mid-2027, so that's the goal that is to stop one. The second one, we are in negotiation also to stop it, but the end of the contract is 2034.
All right. That's very clear. Thank you.
Thank you. We'll now take our next question. This is from Sam Morton from Invesco. Please go ahead.
Hi, good morning. In the release, I think you talk about considering to repurchase bond debt. Can you talk a little bit about what that would look like? Is there a particular tranche that you're looking at, or is that just sort of repurchasing across the board? Then I'd like to dig into the refinancing. Obviously, the window is challenging at the moment, when you think about the refinancing, is this a piecemeal approach, or will you, are you looking to do all of the refinancing of the first lien and the one and a half lien at the same time?
I would say on the refinancing, the goal is first to refinance the 1L because it's 13%, and we definitely think that we can be much cheaper right now with the B- and also with a positive outlook. After that, if we can do 1L and 1.5L, of course, we'll either do both. I would say it will depend on the depth of the market. I would say 1L is more important for us just because it's too expensive. The second one, the second 1.5L, in fact, is cheaper. It's around 8%+ in terms of yield. 1L is the priority.
If we can do 1L and 1.5L, so that we can stop also the, I would say, the procedure that was in place since the 24th for Atos, we try to do both. I would say the priority is 1L. Jacques-François , probably you want to...
Yes. Hi, Sam. On the repurchase of bonds. Forgive me, I'm not going to give you a straight answer. However, I can tell you that what is guiding our action is, you know, we are making a standard calculation of [value G]. We are targeting the instruments where there is the better value model.
Okay. Sorry. Can I just dive into that? Would you look at the lowest cash price, or would you... I'm just trying, I mean, like, what's the philosophy? You're looking at the lowest cash price, or you're trying to facilitate the refinancing? I'm just trying to understand how you think about it?
In the URD, which is going to be published next week, you will see that in 2025, we have already bought a little bit of second-lien bonds, a very tiny amount because it was not very liquid. We have bought a little bit of 2L already in 25. We are looking at the NPV/IRR. The first reason, you know, the first objective is to look at what's generating more money, what's. You know, because today we consider we're a little bit in excess cash. We have some big proceeds coming on, you know, namely with the proceeds for the closing of the advanced computing division in a few weeks. We are trying to make the best use of our money.
Great. Thanks a lot.
Thank you. As a reminder, if you do have a question, you can press star one and one on your keypad and wait for your name to be announced. The next question is from the line of Derric Marcon from Bernstein. Please go ahead.
Good morning, all. Thanks for taking my questions. I've got four questions, if you authorize me. The first one is on the range given for the guidance, you gave for the guidance, so -5%, 0% + or positive. Can you try to help us understand the difference between the low end of the range and the upper end of the range? At the bottom of the range, does it take into account significant revenue reduction with Siemens? Can you also explain us where you land with Siemens in 2025 versus 2024, and what do you expect in 2026, just to understand if it's an important moving part in the construction of this range. My second question is on your commercial momentum.
If we look to the full qualified pipeline number at the end of 2025, it does not improve much compared to previous quarters despite FX. I'm trying to understand, I'm trying to understand here what KPI do you have to, let's say, assess a much better, as you said, not Q1, but maybe Q2 or Q3 or Q4. Do you see really this momentum improving quarter after quarter? Because unfortunately, as on our side, we can't see that through that number. My third question is on CapEx. As you said, really good performance in 2025 on that side. Do you expect CapEx to remain at the same level in 2026, or will you be impacted by the massive price increase on memories?
What percentage of the CapEx of this 150+ is linked to server plus memories, hardware, let's say? That's it for me.
Okay. On your first question on Siemens, roughly our revenues of 2025 was EUR 300 million, and this year we anticipate EUR 260 million+. It's only EUR 50 million, so it's less than 1% in terms of impact on the top line. Remember that with Siemens, we work with three different entities. Siemens Healthineers, the, in the Healthc are segment, Energy and Siemens AG. In fact, we do work EUR 150 million+ and EUR 50 million-EUR 60 million with the two others. In fact, I would say there are also different dynamics and with the different accounts. As I said, this year will be at EUR 250 million+ because some of the contracts were stopped also in the course of 2025. There is no, I would say, big impact on Siemens, as you can see.
Now when between -5% and 0%+, as you say, we want to be cautious this year. I don't want to say we're going to grow with and sign it today. The goal, of course, for us is to do it, but we want to be a little bit cautious and give you a range between -5% and 0% five. Let's say between -5% and +1%. Then you will pick the number you want. But I think it's a cautious stance in the beginning of the year, and we will have probably more to give in the course of this year. For the qualified pipeline, you're right, it's stable, but I think it's much more quality, I would say, for me than it was 1 year ago.
In fact, what makes me, let's say, more optimistic is that the win ratio is increasing right now. I would say that the qualified, it's a pipeline where we are quite confident we can make a lot of wins in this pipeline. Then, your last point was what.
CapEx.
CapEx. CapEx number that Bull is going away. After that, I would say for Eviden that the chips, it's not a big problem for us. In fact, for some of our data centers, most of our contracts, we pass, I would say, the increase that we see from our provider, directly, I would say, to the client. There is no much risk impact in terms of CapEx. The CapEx we are looking for this year is at EUR 100 million +, without Bull. That's the target that we have for this year.
Can I add just a small follow-up? Because on your explanation on AI, very helpful and interesting. I'm on the same line than you about compensating price deflation with volume on most activities you are doing. I was wondering if this reasoning can apply or could apply to digital workplace and cloud and infrastructure and modern infrastructure, because here I struggle to understand. You will get this price deflation for sure, but I don't see where the increased volume will come from.
Oh, F lorin you can explain that.
Yeah, it's a great question. Actually, if we go into the cloud and modern infrastructure, so we see a quite substantial uptick around the work that we're doing based on the sovereign movement. It is a quite complicated area where clients need a lot of help, everything from advisory to try to understand which workloads they do sovereign and which version of sovereign, and to move and redesign both the application and the infrastructure space from those areas. I would also say that we have substantially improved our partnership with a number of the hyperscalers. We're driving a lot of additional new joint go-to-market campaigns and solutions in this space, which is acting as a net positive.
I would also say that on cloud and modern infrastructure, actually, AI is opening up new opportunities which historically wouldn't have been possible to do for our clients. As AI is making the modernization and the digitalization of legacy applications possible, in a way which, you know, frankly, again, wouldn't have been realistic or cost efficient in the past, that drives substantial requirements for infrastructure and cloud modernization. AI is actually a tailwind for us in cloud and modern infrastructure. When it comes to digital workplace, we are expanding the type of services we provide in digital workplace.
Again, AI is to some extent a headwind because some of the services which we historically would have done with people are now done by agents, but we're able to improve our margins in that case. We're also seeing AI act as a multiplier. One of the key demands we see from clients is how to have their people
Truly be able to use AI constructively, usefully, and in, and in a meaningful way. We're actually adding AI enablement and AI capabilities as part of our digital workplace services. We're also using AI to make the digital workplace experience a lot more enhanced to help with self-healing. We're basically adding additional services, additional value-adding services on in our digital workplace portfolio, which again are quite nicely balancing those tailwinds or nicely balancing the headwinds we would have had traditionally with, you know, digital labor replacing human labor. I hope that answers your question.
Yeah. Very clear. Understood.
Thank you. We'll now take the last question today. Please stand by. The question is from Laurent Daure from Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead.
Yes. Thank you. Good morning, gentlemen. As for Derric, I have also four questions. First, I'd like if you could come back on the way you have built your revenue plan for 2026. I mean, if you start the year with the first quarter close to -10% and you're not gonna have much easier comps the following quarter, does it mean that you're expecting to win sizable deals that will start during the year? What makes you so confident that you're gonna end the year with strong growth in order to offset the first quarter?
My second question is, first, thanks for the clarification on Siemens, if you could share with us exactly your relationship with your clients as of today, in particular, I understand that you have 2 more years of business, do you already have a visibility on what's gonna happen for that client as of 2028? The last two question, one is on the one-offs. At which timing do you expect the P&L to start to be quite clean with limited restructuring and provisions? Is it 2027? The final question is on the nice improvement you're expecting on EBIT. Could you share a bit the building blocks to go from 4% + to 7%? The main savings, that would be helpful as well. Thank you.
On your first one on Siemens, we have what we call the carve-out that was signed in 2020. It was a 5-year plus 2-year of a contract. There is 2 more years. After that, in fact, in the course of what we want is not to have any carve-out whatever with Siemens. It's to continue with Siemens exactly the way we continue with other clients. We just answer tender and one project. In fact, in 2028, we will continue to answer the tender and win some of the projects. In fact, when you look at the pattern, in fact, at Siemens, we have already revenues for 2028 and 2029 for some of the projects that we have won, in fact, in the course of 2025.
We say it's a normal client. There is no need, I would say, to resign a car or whatever. I think it does not make sense. Because in fact, in the car that we are signing 2020, you should know that there was a signing bonus that makes in fact the margin of the contract not that good. In fact, now the margin has been restored in the course of 2026, we are quite happy on it. The idea for me is to continue with Siemens like my all other clients. There is no specific agreement that we need, I would say with Siemens. Remember also that, as I said, Siemens, it's three different quantities. There is 3 different, I would say, clients.
In fact, we have also client partners evaluating the different quantities of Siemens. For your second question, of course, if we start at -10 and we want to be positive, there is no magic. We need to be at a strong growth in Q4. That's the anticipation that we have. I cannot go into detail on which contracts we want to win or not. It's too difficult to do that. I'm not sure it's very useful. Of course, that I would say the goal that we have in our budget now is that to be roughly at 0+ in Q3 and then have an acceleration of the growth in the last quarter. I would say that it would if we been able.
If we are able to be at 0+, it's a very good result for us because it means that we have now growth going forward in the course of 2027. The bar is high, huh, Laurent. Don't say it's an easy one. Please be careful on that. Don't say, don't estimate that everything is easy. Of course, we have ambition, and we definitely think that we have the pipeline and the projects to rebound, I would say, in the course of Q3 and Q4. For your other questions, I don't remember.
[Clean P&L.
Yeah. Go on for Jacques-François.
Well, I think, Laurent, you were asking when do we stop the one-offs and do we, when do we have a P&L which is clean? Well, I think already 2026. I mean, for me, the numbers we are publishing now are taking everything we know in, into account. Of course, in 2026, we still have the continuation of the Genesis restructuring plan.
We said that we booked a large chunk in 2025. You remember the full envelope was EUR 700, we're still a bit below, there is still some, somehow a portion of that to come in 2026. Beyond that, I would say that 2026 already should be expected to be clean. That's the question on the one-offs. Your last question, I don't know if you want to take it, which is the further, you know, the building blocks of the past to the 9%-10% margin.
I think, yeah, well first we were at 6% in H2. Remember that we have roughly EUR 200 million of savings after Genesis in the PNL coming this year. If you always start with EUR 300 million plus the EUR 200 million, we already have EUR 500 million, then you need to get rid, of course. We're going to have an increase of salary. Now it's an impact of EUR 17 million+. Your building block is EUR 314 plus EUR 200 minus EUR 70, plus the other actions that we are going to take in the course of this year. That's why we are quite confident on the 7% margin.
Philippe, if I could add, on the new scope, question on the seasonality of the margins, because you improve nicely from first half to second half. Do you have part of that as coming from seasonality or going forward, you expect when you will have, stabilized, the operations to have, similar margin level between the two halves?
In fact, it's going to be always more margin in H2 than H1, but with less Eviden Bull is out. That's most of the explanation why H1 and H2 are very different. It's not going to be the case in the course of 2026. You will see a more stable revenue. I would say EBIT strength between H1 and H2. Usually in older companies, like the case of our competitor, there is more margin in H2 than H1. Not, I would say like it was in fact in the course of 2025.
To a smaller extent.
Yeah. Remember that I said already in the CMD last year that the there will be close to zero, I would say, non-recurring expense in terms of cash in 2028. That's the goal. We expand, we cash out, I would say, Genesis. This year we estimate that it's going to be between EUR 150 million-EUR 200 million. We have done EUR 450 million last year. The rest in the course of 2027. No more, I would say, cash out in 2028. Same thing for the litigation. We estimate that most of the litigation will be done. For the better comp, as I said, there will be probably only one in 2028. It will be a very, I would say, a small impact in terms of cash.
The EBIT will be clean this year, but I would say in terms of cash flows, it will be clean in the course of 2027 and 2028.
Okay, great. Thank you.
Thank you. There are no further questions at this time, so I will hand the conference back to the speakers for any closing comments.
Okay. Thank you everyone for this long call. We are very happy. As you have seen, I think the focus was on technology today because there were a lot of questions on our industry and also on our goals. Have a good day. Of course, we will talk to you in probably for Q1 and in the coming months, and we of course focus to the rebound of the company. Have a good day. Bye-bye.
Thank you. This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating, and you may now disconnect. Speakers, please stand by.