Ladies and gentlemen, we are currently on hold for the presentation of BNP Paribas second quarter 2025 results, hosted by Jean-Laurent Bonnafé, Group Chief Executive Officer, and Lars Machenil, Group Chief Financial Officer. If you would like to participate in the Q&A session, please make sure to be in a quiet area to maximize audio quality. If noise volume is too high, we may reconsider your participation in the Q&A session. In order to ensure that all attendants are able to participate, please limit your questions to a maximum of two. Thank you for holding. The conference will start shortly. Ladies and gentlemen, we are currently on hold for the presentation of BNP Paribas second quarter 2025 results, hosted by Jean-Laurent Bonnafé, Group Chief Executive Officer, and Lars Machenil, Group Chief Financial Officer.
If you would like to participate in the Q&A session, please make sure to be in a quiet area to maximize audio quality. If noise volume is too high, we may reconsider your participation in the Q&A session. In order to ensure that all attendants are able to participate, please limit your questions to a maximum of two. Thank you for holding. The conference will start shortly. Ladies and gentlemen, we are currently on hold for the presentation of BNP Paribas second quarter 2025 results, hosted by Jean-Laurent Bonnafé, Group Chief Executive Officer, and Lars Machenil, Group Chief Financial Officer. If you would like to participate in the Q&A session, please make sure to be in a quiet area to maximize audio quality. If noise volume is too high, we may reconsider your participation in the Q&A session.
In order to ensure that all attendants are able to participate, please limit your questions to a maximum of two. Thank you for holding. The conference will start shortly. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the presentation of the BNP Paribas second quarter 2025 results, with Jean-Laurent Bonnafé, Group Chief Executive Officer, and Lars Machenil, Group Chief Financial Officer. For your information, this conference call is being recorded. Supporting slides are available on BNP Paribas IR website, invest.bnpparibas.com. During today's presentation, you will be able to ask your questions by pressing *1 on your telephone keypad. If you would like to ask a question, please make sure to be in a quiet area to maximize audio quality. I would like now to hand the call over to Jean-Laurent Bonnafé, Group Chief Executive Officer. Please go ahead, sir.
Thank you. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Lars and I are pleased to present today a summary of our strong second quarter results and how it confirms our 2024-2026 trajectory. For 2025 specifically, we are also confident to announce that we expect more than EUR 12.2 billion net profit for this year, as I will explain later. We will be relatively brief on divisional details, as you have most of them in our documents. Moving to slide four. You can see that our revenues are up 2.5% this quarter. CIB posted a 4% revenue growth despite an elevated base in the second quarter 2024 and the U.S. dollar weakness. For all three businesses, Global Banking, Global Markets, and Securities Services, we had the best second quarter in 15 years. CPBS was marginally up year on year despite lower used car sales results at Arval.
This is in line with our trajectory. The quarter confirmed the acceleration of the net interest income in our commercial banks in the Eurozone, as expected, with a growth of more than 2%, and we anticipate the second half to show further acceleration. Germany, once again, posted very strong revenue growth at about 22%, thanks to strengthened performance in Turkey and Poland. Personal Finance is starting to show acceleration and is up about 3%. Moving to IPS, it posted a 4.4% growth, particularly thanks to Insurance and Wealth Management. We are pleased to have welcomed AXA IM employees in our group on the 1st of July. I will elaborate on AXA IM later on. Finally, regarding the Corporate Center, we saw an improvement, as mentioned during first quarter results.
Our commitment to cost control remains strong, and we are on track to deliver a cost savings of EUR 600 million this year, with EUR 190 million of additional savings implemented in Q2. Overall, we generated a positive operating jaws effect of 1.7 percentage points this quarter, above our ambition of 1.5. At 38 basis points, our cost of risk remains within our guidance of less than 40 basis points, despite a more challenging environment. Our cost of risk includes stage 3 provisions of 33 basis points, down 9 basis points year on year. The second quarter of 2024 saw stage 1 and two benefiting from 12 basis points of releases, compared to a small addition this quarter.
All in all, our net profit was down 4% due to a punctually low tax charge in the second quarter 2024, without compromising our trajectory of profitability, as this tax impact ironed out over the full year 2024. Our CET1 is stable quarter on quarter at 12.5%, and Lars will elaborate on this later. Finally, we confidently confirm our distribution policy of 60%, and are pleased to announce our first interim dividend of EUR 2.59 per share, which represents 50% of our EPS for the first half. Our EUR 1.80 billion share buyback program was completed in June, and the shares will be canceled. After solid performance in Q2, we expect a sharp acceleration in the second half, and I will explain on the next slide. Now, moving to slide five.
We are pleased to confirm that we expect our net profit for 2025 to be above EUR 12.2 billion, mainly driven by a strong acceleration in revenues in the second half of the year at more than 5%, excluding AXA IM. This revenue growth is in the place that it will largely come from the acceleration of the NII in our Eurozone commercial banks and at personal finance on margins, reflecting the current rate environment. These additional revenues do not require much additional cost, which means they will feed directly to our gross operating income and profit before tax. We will also continue our cost savings measures, supporting operating jaws at roughly + 2.5 percentage points.
Once we add to the strong growth in gross operating income, the first-time contribution from AXA Investment Managers, we expect that our net profit will exceed EUR 12.2 billion for the full year, marking a sharp increase in the second half. Moving now to slide six. You are, of course, very familiar with slide six, and I am pleased to reiterate our trajectory for 2025-2026. Return on tangible equity of 11.5% in 2025, 12% in 2026, leading to more than 7% group net income growth CAGR and more than 8% EPS growth CAGR. Our 2026 return on tangible equity is only a stepping stone towards further improvement.
Our targets will be achieved thanks to key levers that you will have in mind, starting with CIB. We will continue to grow market shares in a capital-conscious manner and will be ready for the Save and Invest Union thanks to our originate-to-distribute model. Moving to CPBS, we had two deep dives in June on CPBS and personal finance, demonstrating to you that these two businesses alone can add one full percentage point of return on tangible equity by 2028. CPBS will, amongst others, benefit from the sharp acceleration in NII, both in the commercial banks and personal finance. We recently reinforced our governance of the commercial banks in the Eurozone in order to maturize our investments, accelerate cross-selling, and continue our efforts on Significant Risk Transfer.
Moving to IPS, we will continue the dynamic organic growth, which will be amplified by the acquisition of HSBC Wealth Management Germany and, of course, AXA IM. Finally, we will continue our efficiency efforts with EUR 600 million additional cost savings in both 2025 and 2026. I now hand over to Lars, who will remind you of this quarter's achievements.
Thanks, Laurent. If you can swipe to slide 10, where you can see that the second quarter of 2025 was driven by solid business performance within each division. Overall, group revenues were up 2.5% year on year, and we expect more than 5% in the second half. If we look at the divisions, CIB had a record second quarter, as Laurent said, up 4% year on year, driven by a very good performance across all three business lines. If we look at Global Banking, which was stable at a record high, reflecting strong commercial dynamism, but also some degree of wait and see, also the U.S. dollar impact and the negative impact of lower rates. Our pipeline within Global Banking is strong for the remainder of the year.
If with this we turn to Global Markets, where revenues were up 5.6%, driven by a very strong performance of FICC when compared, in particular, to our U.S. peers, and FICC is up 27%. FICC was indeed strong in all regions, particularly driven by FX, but also credit. Equity and prime services was down about 15% due to the high base effect a year ago, and compared with our U.S. peers who are more exposed than us to the flow business, which was very strong this quarter on the other side of the Atlantic. We were also impacted by lower demand for structured products in the context of the uncertainty post-liberation day. However, if we look at the first semester results at EUR 2.2 billion, they represent a record for EPS driven, in particular, by prime and cash.
If we now turn to the third division, Securities Services, it was up 7.6%, driven by strong balances and transactions, as well as resilient interest margin. If we now turn to the second division, which is CPBS, which illustrated and demonstrated the pivotal performance. If you look at it, the revenues are up 0.4%, but what is worth mentioning are the two main divisions within it. If we start with the commercial banks, they were basically up 5% this quarter, stronger than the trajectory for the next two years. Within this, we look at the commercial banks in the Eurozone. They grew their revenues 1.2%, and we reiterate our target of more than 3% this year. Indeed, why do we say this? Because, on one hand, the rebound of net interest revenues will accelerate in the second half of this year, as the lag from deposit mix has tapered off.
Moreover, the lower rates environment should be supportive of a stabilizing deposit mix, and the shape of the yield curve should enable us to continue our reinvestment on the long end of the curve, leading to a progressive net interest income pickup, as we have announced, and as the second quarter illustrates this pivot. If with this, after the Eurozone banks, we look at Europe-Mediterranean, and so the revenues were up 22.7%. This is due to improved margins both in Poland and Turkey, as well as an increase in fees, and this, in particular, payments in Turkey. Of course, the environment in Turkey going forward could potentially be less favorable due to a slowing decrease in interest rates. This is then basically the commercial banks. If we then turn to the specialized businesses, they were down 7% year on year.
This is impacted by the ongoing normalization, as you know, of used car prices, and as you know, as we have flagged it before. If you look organically, Arval performed extremely well again this quarter, up 8.3%. The growth is supported by fleet growth of 4.6% and outstandings growing by 11.2%. If you look at personal finance, where you see a solid commercial performance with loan growth of 2.7% combined with margin improvements coming from repricing. We have described this in our deep dive for PF, personal finance, and we are confident that the margin improvement will accelerate in the second half of the year. Last, within CPBS, a very good performance from the new digital businesses and personal investors, up organically 11% this quarter, thanks to further growth in client acquisition, as well as a high level of transactions in the light of Liberation Day.
If with this, we move to the third division, IPS. We saw strong growth in fees, thanks to a high level of transactions. If we look at assets under management, they were boosted by strong inflow and strong performance effects, but were significantly impacted by the strengthening of the euro. IPS is about to become a sizable driver of our growth with the acquisition of AXA IM , which we closed early July. If we look at insurance revenues, they were up 8.2%, driven particularly by healthy savings in France, the increased contribution from Ageas, and the impact of recent acquisitions. Wealth management was up 6.1% on strong inflow and strong fee growth.
If we turn to asset management, which was down 1.8% despite strong inflow and transactional activity due to financial income, and in particular, real estate, you know, our asset management division includes the activity real estate, which continued to weigh. Let me add finally a comment on the corporate center. As we highlighted at the first quarter, the revenues can be volatile from one to another, but you see that the second quarter is in line with our full year guidance of about zero revenues, excluding the impact of insurance-related effects. If with this, we turn to slide 11, where we show that our cost discipline is paying off. At group level, the operating jaws stand at 1.7 percentage points, consistent with our stated trajectory for 2026 of 1.5. We continue to allocate cost growth to fund development while we offset inflation by cost savings.
If we look at CIB, positive operating jaws, 0.7 percentage points, with cost growth driven mainly by increased activity. CPBS, also positive jaws, 0.5 points, and jaws are positive in all activities except Arval, as we mentioned before. The latter faced significantly lower base effect from car sales revenues in the second half, as previously stated. The tapering down of the resale had the highest impact in the first half of the year and will be materially lower in the second half. Finally, IPS reported positive jaws of 5.2 percentage points, with a drop in cost of 0.7%, even with our ongoing investments in the business. Jaws are positive in insurance and wealth management. If we look at slide 12, where we focus on the cost savings and efficiency measures, which basically allow the jaws effects, this quarter, you see that we implemented EUR 190 million of new cost savings.
Totally consistent with our full year target and broadly offsetting the impact of inflation. Having looked at those three first elements of the P&L, let's now look at the cost of risk on slide 13. On this slide, you can see that our diversified balance sheet enables us to protect profitability. Our cost of risk of 38 basis points over outstanding is at a moderate level across our activities, with a base effect a year ago in the second quarter. Indeed, in the second quarter of 2024, the group released stage 1 and two provisions for EUR 275 million, notably in global banking. In particular, if we go back to the stage 3 provisions, which have improved nine basis points year on year. The stage 3 are nine basis points lower than they were a year ago, and they stand at 36 basis points.
They reflect the good quality of our portfolio despite a challenging economic environment. If we now talk about the stages 1 and 2, our overall stock of provisions for these is stable, and it stands at EUR 4.1 billion, equivalent to more than one year worth of the current stage 3 run rate. If we now look at it by division, we know there's normalization from a low base at global banking, as we previously mentioned, Euro-Med and BNL, and from a high base in France. PF continues to represent close to 50% of group cost of risk, and the drop of stage 3 provisions there confirms our expectation of gradual structural improvement.
If we now move to the impact of U.S. tariffs, we observe a certain wait and see attitude among clients, mainly due to the ongoing uncertainty around these tariffs, and this is expected to ease once greater clarity emerges. In the meantime, we maintain a strong focus on high-quality counterparties, so 75% is investment grade, and continue to closely monitor liquidity, credit, and market risks. Having looked at the P&L, let's now look at the balance sheet and, in particular, capital management on slide 15. If we start from the second quarter in 2025. Our financial communication will be based on the phased-in capital ratios. This is to align with the regulatory requirements comparison. The phased-in metric is the base for MDA calculation, so the calculation that would eventually limit dividends. Secondly, it reflects the group's 2030 horizon, and thirdly, it matches the standard used by the peer group.
Looking at the second quarter, our common equity tier 1 phased-in is stable quarter on quarter and stands at 12.5%. This quarter reflects the typical 10 basis points of organic capital generation, which was compensated punctually by, amongst others, model updates. Additionally, we offset our limited organic R&D growth by RWA optimization. The quarter confirms our intrinsic capital generation and us being well on track to be above our orientation of 12.3% CET1 pre-FRTB. I do not have to remind you that our CET1 has showed little volatility through the cycle, demonstrating a tight control of our trajectory. This is on the back of our diversified business model, enabling us to be less cyclical than many other banks. If we now turn to slide 16, where you can see our progress on SRT.
Since we started, we have a cumulative benefit of EUR 44 billion on our risk-weighted assets, equivalent to 65 basis points of common equity tier 1 . During the first half of this year, we implemented around 20 transactions for around EUR 12 billion of gross RWA savings. We now expect more than 10 basis points benefit from optimization in 2025 and 2026. All this is within the current regulatory environment. If we move a second, looking forward to the Save and Invest Union, SIU, it should support revenue growth in CIB via securitization services and increased ABS trading volumes, as well as IPS through higher margin investment products, while, of course, also helping reduce our own, so BNP Paribas RWAs, and improving BNP Paribas common equity tier 1 ratio.
Although it is too early to quantify the exact impact of SIU, pending final regulatory details, we believe a successful implementation could add several tens of basis points to our ROTE. With this, you can look at slides 20 and 21, where we look at the strong track record of our CIB division reaching a record level in the second quarter. We also provided you with a focus on our securities services businesses, which continues its fantastic journey of growth, both organic and through acquisition, including the recently announced acquisition of HSBC Custody and Depository activities in Germany. Securities services have expertise, have scale, and are a significant contributor to the ability of our CIB to produce revenues that are not volatile and show steady growth through the cycle. Having talked about CIB, let's turn to slide 22, 23 on CPBS.
First, as we indicated last quarter, we are working hard to improve the divisions not delivering adequate returns, and we demonstrated during our deep dives on personal finance and CPBS that the target in excess of 17% RONE by 2028, sorry, will be reached. As expected, you can see the start of a sharp acceleration of the net interest income in our commercial banks in the eurozone, thanks to a stabilization of current accounts, as mentioned before, and we expect further progress in the second half. If we now turn to slides 24, 25 on IPS, this division will represent the biggest growth driver for the group for the next few years, and we welcome AXA IM employees on our group on July 1st. The integration has been launched, and we will provide you with synergies targets during our second quarter, third quarter results.
By year-end, we aim for the legal merger of BNP Paribas Asset Management, AXA IM , and BNP Paribas Rhyme, and we will follow up with a deep dive in the first quarter of 2026. AXA IM will enable us to have a greatly reinforced distribution network, a broader product range, a platform at scale enables us to take full benefit of the Save and Invest Union, a core building block in our integrated business model of originate and distribute. Having given an update on the businesses, I'll now hand it back to Jean-Laurent for the conclusion.
Thank you, Lars. To conclude on slide 26. Our second quarter performance is solid. We will distribute on September 30 an interim dividend for EUR 2.59 per share, equivalent to 50% of our first half EPS.
We see strong acceleration of our revenues and preferred before tax growth in H2, which would enable us to exceed EUR 12.2 billion of net profit. We confirm our trajectory 2024-2026 with all levers already in place. Let me conclude by some final comments about the recent changes and opportunities that we announced. They are consolidating the group's integrated model by accelerating the market share growth of our CIB based on its originate to distribute approach, strengthening the cross-functionality of the commercial banks in the eurozone, and preparing the future by focusing in particular on common technological investments. With the acquisition of AXA IM , one of our largest external growth moves, we are consolidating the group's asset management businesses and accelerating the development of our IPS division in line with its insurance and wealth management businesses. We are preparing BNP Paribas for the next phase of its growth. This concludes our presentation, and we are now happy to answer your questions.
Ladies and gentlemen, if you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad. Please lift your handset, ensure that the mute function on your telephone is switched off, and that you are in a quiet area to maximize audio quality. I would like to remind you to please limit yourself to a maximum of two questions. We will take questions as many as time permits. Again, please press star one to ask questions. First question is from Pierre Chédeville, CIC.
Good afternoon. My first question relates to commercial banks in general. I was wondering. Why, at the end of the day, there is such a difference in terms of profitability between your European path and some other of your competitors. I was thinking, of course, of Italian banks.
Of course, you can tell that comparison is not relevant, but at this stage, at this level of difference in profitability, I was wondering. How do you intend, how do you think it is possible to reduce this lag? And it is not only a question in Italy, for instance, but when I look at Belgium, where you have a big market share, your profitability is around 10%, which is not very, very, very high. A general comment between these discrepancies between commercial banks in Europe. And my second question relates to asset management. If you could give us a little bit more color regarding your good inflows this quarter. And particularly, I was wondering if it comes from retail or institutional customers, is it long-term products, and where are you about passive management this quarter? Thank you very much.
Thank you, Pierre. Listen, when you look at the performance, the main objective that we have is to improve every single day. If we look at BNL, for example, our priority is profitability improvements despite the challenging competitive environment. If you look, for example, at our internal metric, the RONI, which is close to 14% in the first half of the year, so nearly twice the level we saw in 2022. If you look at it, what are the levers that we use? They are the ones that are applicable for us in the environment where we are. For BNL, it is, for example, the cost. Costs are down 1.5%. Even if you include that the GGS has fallen off, that is what you basically see. The same is true for the cost of risk, which was at 38 basis points. It has gone down to 30 basis points.
That is the kind of things that you do. You see the same thing in France. In France, in the environment that we have, indeed, we have a yield which is single-digit. You have seen the deep dive that we have announced in order to produce it. That is basically what we do. We adapt, and the idea is to have the profitability to increase. That is on that one. When you look at asset management, asset management, we have a setup to be diversified, distributing on the retail and the institutionals, and that is basically relatively stable. If you look at that. If you look at the overall inflow that we have in the second quarter, it is g ravitating towards, as you've seen, EUR 15 billion in the second quarter.
If you then look at basically what is it going into, it is flowing on one hand into monetary and on the other hand, on the medium-term, longer-term funds. That's a bit the trade-off. Over and above the flows, if you look at the top line, the top line intrinsically is fine. I have to remind you that our asset management, as we publish it, also includes our real estate activities, which is intrinsically not part of the asset manager, and that activity remains in retreat. What we see is that even if the interest rates are going down, the investment volumes are still not materially picking up. That would be those two axes, Pierre.
Thank you.
Next question is from Tarik El Mejjad, Bank of America.
Hi, good morning, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions. Actually, I have mainly one on capital.
Can you explain to us what the rationale to move into a phased-in basis versus fully loaded? You alluded to be consistent or compliant with the regulation, but can you elaborate on what's the difference between the two? Is it only the phased-in of the output floor from 2030, or is there anything more to have in mind? Also, another question on capital. I mean, the sector is clearly moving towards a higher level of CET1 target of, don't put a number, but clearly higher than 12%. It's been rewarded and seen as the new normal. I mean, you've been consistently repeating that managing the bank at 12% is ample and sufficient and adequate. Don't you think it will be forming a kind of glass ceiling for your valuation?
I mean, especially today, I think you had great numbers showing a strong recovery in most divisions, positive growth in the costs. Can't really fault much in terms of earning recovery. I would be interested to hear your comments on this. Linking to that on the SIU, you mentioned a few tens of basis points of benefit from this. I understand you don't want to be more specific at this stage. A lot of things are still in the making. Are we talking something above 100 basis points or below? Maybe actually the most interesting question would be to understand your conviction on if this project will come true and if Europe will stick together to deliver actually something that will be applicable.
Especially the latest EU securitization framework had all the buzzwords, but unfortunately, I don't think it went to the extent we were hoping in terms of relaxing the rules for allowing banks to securitize and invest and so on. Sorry for the long question, but I'll be keen to hear your answers. Thank you.
On your three questions, let's take the time. Let's do the first one. The first one on the metric. If you look at intrinsically the binding metric when it comes to calculating the MDA, to ensure that you can pay dividends and the likes, is the phased one. That is the one that we apply. That is the one that counts. Secondly, if you then look at BNP Paribas, for us, this phasing, it is basically coming in two periods. There is a phasing happening from now till 2030, which is basically the floor.
After that, there are the other effects that come in play. For BNP Paribas, that first phase leading to 2030 on the floor, it does not bite. For us, the difference between the fully loaded and the phased is zero. There is no difference. Thereafter, it is limited. It is 10 basis points. Moreover, what we see in the market is that the interpretation of this fully loaded, fully, fully loaded, I do not know how many definitions there are, it can be a bit fluffy. Moreover, that is why ourselves and basically several of our competitors are moving in the phased approach. Intrinsically, there is no difference. As I said, there is no difference till 2030 for us. It is very minimal thereafter. We apply what is the metric that is needed to calculate the MDA, and that is basically it.
That is on the change on the Common Equity Tier 1. The Common Equity Tier 1, let us put it this way. If you look at the requirements that are being asked to us intrinsically, that is the pillar one. If you also look at the pillar two, and you might get an update next week when the stress test is published, you see that of the large European banks, we basically have a pillar two, which is very low, which basically reflects our low capital requirement, which again reflects the view of the supervisor of our diversified setup and our impact. Even if you go back for a while, if you go back in the last 10 years, our diversified setup never triggered a Common Equity Tier 1 reduction bar when Basel II, Basel III came. Intrinsically, it is very stable.
That is why we see both from the supervisor, both from what we have in the historic view, that we fly at an appropriate level. When it comes to the Save and Invest Union, it is indeed a thing that should happen. Listen, I can tell you whatever kind of numbers. Yeah, I am not going to make you dream. We just mentioned multiples of tens of basis points. What you see is that Europe is putting the sails. They have been talking about Save and Invest Union in February. They have added a complementary on the securitization back in June. You might have seen that they are also working on evolving or allowing insurance companies to invest on a more equilibrium way into equities. So all of these effects are really supporting that the European Commission is setting all sails for it to improve, which is a positive thing.
Now, again, taking the time it takes, it's going to take till 2028 till these things crystallize, right? That is what we see.
Okay. Just a quick follow-up. I mean, on the 10 basis points gap, which is actually in eight years' time. Would you be confident to actually mitigate that effect and even go beyond to convert the two? I mean, one bank report.
Sorry, Tarik, I'm not sure. Which 10 basis points are you talking about?
Sorry, the gap between phased-in and fully loaded.
Yes. Oh, yes. Listen, as I said, this is coming basically down the road at once we, the next phase comes in. That next phase that comes in is basically, there are products that we have that are called, listen to my words, unconditionally cancelable commitments, unconditional cancelable conditions.
However, Europe at this stage is basically saying that they will not be totally unconditionally and cancelable. That is what we see that has an impact of the 10 basis points that we talk about. We will have to see if Europe comes along that basically that does not make sense, or we will see how we can evolve those products or price those products alike. Yes, I haven't given up that we can compensate that.
Thank you very much. Very helpful.
Next question is from Delphine Lee, JP Morgan.
Yes, good afternoon. Thank you for taking my questions. My first one is on Eurozone. Commercial and personal banking in the Eurozone. Just trying to understand if you're confident on your path towards more than 3%. Considering the first half, if you look at BNL, Belgium, the trends are still a bit challenging.
If you could maybe elaborate a little bit of what you do expect in the second half in terms of pickup for these two businesses. My second question is on capital. Just double-checking. In terms of, I've seen your 10 basis points that you would expect for the rest of the year coming from audit reoptimization, securitization, SRTs, I think. Just on the regulatory side, on model updates or anything like that. Are we still having 10 basis points regulatory headroom for this year? Does that imply any reversal of what we've seen so far? If you could just clarify a little bit the CET1 path for us. Thank you.
Thank you, Delphine, for your question. Yes, indeed, we reiterate the above 3%. If you look at it, as a reminder, given the fact that we have in France and Belgium those mortgages which are at fixed rate, the kicking in of the reflection of the higher interest rates is taking time. That is the pivot that we talked about that is happening. Remind you, a quarter ago, we said that that pivot was happening and that the first one where we would see it is France. Look at the second quarter, you see it. It kicked in. You also see the pivot in Belgium. That is why we say that there will definitely be above 3%. If indeed you look at BNL, what you see is that probably it will gravitate a bit below the 3%. Given the overall setup, the other two will more than compensate. Yes, we reconfirm the above 3% for our commercial and private banking in Europe.
If you basically look at the impact on capital, we have guided that there would be a full year of 10 basis points. That is basically what you have seen. That is intrinsically what we anticipate to have for the year. On the 10 basis points that we have in this second quarter, it's a model update that if we adapt and have an evolution in our models, that zero should taper off. That tapering off will be in 2026, 2027. That is basically where we stand.
Thank you very much.
Next question is from Joseph Dickerson, Jefferies.
Hi, just kind of on the same theme. In Italy, can you discuss the structure of the loans? Are they fixed? Is it swapped? I was a little surprised at the decline in the margin in Italy.
More broadly, I guess, how much now of the H225 revenue performance is effectively locked in now due to mortgage repricing, deposit mix, and replicating portfolio? Thanks.
If you look at Italy, if you look at the retail side within Italy, BNL, this is a fixed-rate mortgage type of balance sheet. It is very different from the average regular situation you would have in Italy. This is first, the pressure today is coming from, let's say, the more corporate banking business within BNL. There is a lot of pressure on lending. Margins are under pressure. This is basically the driver for the top line within BNL. If you look closely, for us, the point with BNL is not volumes or size. It's just profitability. Remember that this quarter, the pre-tax profit for BNL is up by more than 30%. BNL is looked at for the profitability.
We need to continue to do the ramp-up. That is progressing well. This is the story with BNL. Clearly, today, within the Italian market, there are some pressures on corporate banking that are, I would say, stronger than before. If you look at the second half, I would tend to say that most of the rebound is already plugged within the ALM, within Belgium, France, Italy. The fact that the base effect from Arval is just vanishing in the air. It is a very mechanical effect. This is going to happen. This is already in the book to some extent. It will go down directly to the bottom line because there is no cost-based, I would say, associated with that. There is no cost of risk, of course, associated with that. The rebound in the top line is most of it plugged into the balance sheet.
It will become directly a pre-tax profit that will drive this very strong rebound in the second half. You will be probably surprised by Belgium and France as well. This is the story. Again, we are getting rid of most of the base effect with Arval. This is the story. Only looking at IPS and CIB, they are going to evolve like the first half, at a good strong level. The rebound is coming, much of it coming from the Eurozone banks. The fact that Arval is now free of the base effect.
Perfect. Thank you.
Next question is from Giulia Aurora Miotto, Morgan Stanley.
Hi. Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my questions. The first one, can I go back to slide 16 where you showed these tens of basis points of ROTE benefit on SIU? What exactly do you include as SIU?
Because so far, we only got a text on securitization, which I think can still change. I would hope that the industry lobby can improve it. We could get some other stuff on pensions, on investments. What are you assuming here and what do you expect we get, essentially, on the other legs of the SIU? That is my first question. The second question on the investment bank. Your FICC number were exceptional, whereas the equity numbers were a bit weaker than peers. Is there anything that you want to call out there and have the trends continued into Q3? Thank you.
If you look at CIB, I mean, it is always the same story. The equity business had been prepared by is very different from the one you can have with U.S. banks. U.S. banks are much more kind of floor business type of business.
Last year, the structure of the market was very much in favor of the kind of BNP Paribas type of business model for equities. This year is the reverse way. Do not forget that in two years' time, we consolidated more than 30% growth within equities. It went up by, if I remember well, by 34%. This is huge. Again, those businesses are slightly volatile. They are very different structurally from the U.S. classical type of equity businesses. The FICC universe is, as you may know, the characteristic of the diversification of global market at BNP Paribas. It happens quite often that either one of the two drivers are evolving in a reverse way. It is not that frequent that a certain quarter both have very strong at the same speed. It gives diversification and stability.
Once again, if you look at the global market, this is the best quarter ever we got. Once again, stability, diversification, continuous progress, market share growth with a very different business model looking at equities compared to the U.S. banks. This is for CIB.
Yes. Listen, Giulia, on SIU, let's be fair. As you mentioned, the SIU, what is on the table for the moment remains a bit vague. If you look at the axes that Europe puts in motion, they put axes in motion, which is what they published in June. It is to step up securitization so that banks can offload more. This is things like parameters that you use in the capital calculation, the criteria that you include, and so forth. That is on one hand. That is allowing the offload. Secondly, there are also efforts that are being done to have more investment capacity.
That is what has been, we have seen this week, where there are reflections on how to evolve the solvency to allow, which is a bit penalizing for the moment for insurers in order to invest into equity products. As you know, in Europe, typically, your average individual does not go for individual tickets as he might do on the other side of the Atlantic. He needs insurance wrappers to basically do it, which are solvency two is a bit detrimental for it. You see that Europe is also working on making those parts of the aspects better. You see several axes being put in motion. Again, it will take a bit of time for it to land. The direction is there.
Thanks.
Next question is from Andrew Coombs, Citi.
I'll say two questions, please. Firstly, just to follow up on CPBS. If I look at your net interest income rebound this quarter, and if I look at the abrupt shift in deposit mix and the growth that you've seen in sight deposits, I'd imagine that experience that you've seen in the quarter is somewhat better than you expected. I mean, certainly, it is better than your assumption for the full year with stable deposits and stable mix of deposits. You provide the sensitivity helpfully on the slide, but is there any reason why you're not increasing the greater than 3% revenue guidance? Are there offsets elsewhere that we should better understand? That is the first question. Second question, just a technical one. On the insurance business, you've had two consecutive quarters of revaluation of stakes, this time in China. What is your process for doing the rebound on those stakes and any more that we should be thinking about? Thank you.
Thank you, Andrew, for your questions. Listen, on CPBS, you're absolutely right. The deposit mix is intrinsically a tad better than what we had anticipated. That is why, listen, we do not give an update every week as passes by. That's why we said that the top line growth will be above 3%. It's the same thing with the EUR 12.2 billion profit. We said it will be above EUR 12.2 billion. I let you do what your estimate is. I do confirm that the deposit mix at this stage is better than what we had initially taken up. On the revaluation, so indeed, if you look at our activities that we have, one of the levers that our insurance has to grow is they have that technical skill. They bring that technical skill by having distribution within BNP Paribas, distribution to other banks and partners with other players.
What can happen when you look at several of these players, you take them in your balance sheet to equity stake because you do not have a consolidation effect. It can be that in one quarter or another, there is an exceptional dividend or there is a review of the accounting norms. These are the things that can happen. These are exceptional kind of elements, one-off elements that we mentioned, that there is not more to read into it.
Thank you.
Next question is from Stefan Stalmann, Autonomous Research.
Yes. Good afternoon. Thank you very much for taking my questions. I would like to start with a relatively high-level question about the economic environment, and in particular, corporates. You mentioned a challenging environment and that corporates are holding back because of tariff uncertainty.
At the same time, your big German competitor has given a very bullish view on the corporate landscape that they are seeing in the prospects, everyone looking at fiscal stimulus, spending, etc. I was wondering if you see the same, let's say, difference in optimism between German corporates and the rest of Europe, or whether you see any spillover of this apparent German optimism into markets like France, Belgium, and Poland, or whether that has simply not arrived yet. The second question goes back to the equities business. I do not think that you disclosed the split of your equities business by cash derivatives and prime at the deep dive. Maybe you did, and please correct me if I am wrong. If you did not, maybe could you give us a rough sense of how that splits?
I do remember, though, that at the time you gave a split by basically client segments where you had substantially less exposure than the street, in particular to, I guess, hedge funds, alternative investment managers. Do you think that was a major reason why you had so much less momentum in your equity business than the U.S. peers? Thank you.
Stefan, thank you for your questions. If I look at the economic environment, what we have in our outlook, which is reflected in what we assume for GDP growth, in what we assume in our adverse scenarios, taking into account the cost of risk, is that basically. The elements that could be weighing that have been a bit awaited and see is that uncertainty on tariffs. We anticipate that that uncertainty will disappear. That uncertainty disappearance will come with some tariffs.
Let's assume that in our central scenario, we have like 15% of tariffs, and that is what we reflect in the economy. You can see that we anticipate European-wide. We anticipate a GDP growth. That is what we see. That is what we anticipate. It's a bit different between countries. Intrinsically, overall in Europe, that is the growth we see. We have this, again, with those tariffs, uncertainty coming to an end. We see a pickup all over Europe. On your equity, if you look at it. The spread between the three is, if you wish, is 40-40, roughly, right? 40-40-20. If you look at what is basically the impact, so there's two. If you look at the results, first of all, our results in equity and prime services, if you look at the first six months, it's a record level. That's the first thing you would need to do.
Now, if you compare the second quarter, there's two ways you can compare it. You compare it within BNP Paribas itself. If you go back to a year ago, remember, in June, there was a lot of uncertainty ending, and particularly in France, in the middle of the month. That basically meant that there was a double demand of program. Everything which was taken as an orientation at the beginning of June had to be moved in the second half. The demand was very high. That is what we saw in a very steep evolution. That is the reason. Overall, record level. However, if you compare it to the second quarter, it was impacted by this special environment. The second thing, if you compare it with the U.S., if you compare the quarter.
What we are mainly doing, if you look in Europe, one of the key things that we are having is the structured notes and all of these services around it. Less flow. Whereas in the U.S., if you look now. The flow, which was rather reduced a year ago, really stepped up this year. We also participated in that growing flow within the U.S. Of course, our European activities are more dominant in activity versus the other one. That's the two things. Record level in the first half. If you compare the second quarter with ourselves, the second quarter, given the uncertainty that we had a year ago, there was like all stars were aligned. The demands were very high. If you compare with the U.S., it was more flow, whereas the elements were that.
If you look at it, the important thing, if you look at how we have those records and why we keep on taking more market share, if you look at the kind of clients, if you take the equity space, so equity and prime services, there are basically three products. There is cash, there are derivatives, there is prime. If you take those three products and then you look at the top 100 institutional clients, in the past, we said that, and when you were at the deep dive, you saw that we had 52 of the 100 institutional took those three products. Today, we are at 63 of those institutional clients taking the three products. That is what we keep on doing. We keep on taking market share, record level in this semester, and then those two axes of differences when you compare in the second quarter. Stefan, those would be my two answers.
Lastly, maybe just quickly clarify, when you said 40-40-20, was the 20 the cash portion?
Yes.
Thank you. Great.
Next question is from Allan Chris, Goldman Sachs.
Yeah. Hi. Good afternoon, everybody. This is just a follow-up, I guess, the first one from Stefan's question just now. Looking forward, I get all what you've said about the difficulty versus the comp last year. If we use this quarter now, is that a logical comp to look going forward when we think about year-over-year growth in 2026, or maybe the sequential evolution Q3 versus Q2? Is there anything in this quarter that we should also keep in mind? Secondly, staying in EPS in prime, you mentioned brokerage balances held up well. Is that a comment in euros or in local currency? Because I guess you're absorbing a sizable FX headwind there.
Some of your peers, maybe who do not have that headwind, have talked about growth in balances. Maybe a comment on the sort of organic versus headline evolution of those balances versus competition. Thank you.
Thank you, Chris. Could you rephrase quickly your first question?
Yeah. Basically, are there any one-offs in EPS in Q2? When we have the call this time next year, whether we need to be thinking about the comp at all?
No. If you look at EPS, if you look at the evolutions, again, the best metric what I can give is indeed we have record levels. Those record levels come from the fact that there was still volatility, right? I mean, what we had on the liberation day. The story, if you look at the volumes that were done, and then you know that we gradually step up our market share.
From that point of view, we have been able to step up market share. We have been taking more than our part every time, a bit more than the volumes. It is always the same question. We will continue that. What will be the overall demand that is happening? Typically, in the third quarter, it is a tad less than in the second quarter. But we keep on stepping up. That is basically the story of CIB. We step up. Our market share. When you look at the prime brokerage, so if you look at the consumption of the scarce resource, if I can say on prime brokerage, it is not capital, right? Because everything is hedged, that is limited. So it is balance sheet. So it is balance sheet, pure balance sheet, or leverage. So the exposure used in the leverage ratio.
So the one which is most talking, I guess, is the balance sheet by itself. And so what you see is typically that is expressed in dollars. And so for us, we are at the record level, and we are at the record level of $500 billion in exposure.
Okay. Thank you.
Next question is from Anke Reingen, RBC.
Yeah. Thank you for taking my questions. I just wanted to ask firstly about the at least EUR 12.2 billion. I mean, you stressed the number of times it is at least, but I just wondered in terms of the second half versus first half, would it be sort of like a step down versus a EUR 6.2 billion?
Anke, I am not sure I can hear you very well. Can you rephrase your question?
I tried to speak a bit louder, if that helps. But please let me know. On the EUR 12.2 billion, you stressed it is an at-least target. But what should we think about as the potential headwinds? Because I guess it looks a bit of a step down versus the first half. And so far, you mainly talked about the tailwinds. I guess it is a cost seasonality, investment banking seasonality. And just to confirm, the EUR 12.2 billion includes a contribution from AXA. And can we use on slide five the bars as sort of like an indication of what you could have penciled in? Then secondly, on the jaws in CIB, the 3% cost growth, is it also because last year the costs were a bit lower? Would you think this year you managed the cost? I mean, obviously, it depends on the revenues, but there will be less of a volatile. You think you managed the cost better in CIB rather than having a Q4 step up? Thank you.
For the yearly guidance, we said a minimum of EUR 12.2 billion. This is already with some headwinds included. We have to some extent room to maneuver. And yes, it includes the extra net, of course, of some restructuring costs. Also, it is the situation. We would tend to say that the EUR 12.2 billion is a minimum and factored in a quite cautious way.
On the cost-based and the jaws at CIB, as you know, we operate at marginal cost. At CIB, when you have more revenues, you basically have more variable costs. Now, from time to time, there are also some investments we have to do. That comes with whatever regulatory and other kind of investments we have to do.
On top of that, we have to take into account, which is a bit perturbing in it, but you have to take into account to explain some of the volatility, is that we have. The revenues that are generated in dollars, for example. If you see the costs that come with it, part of them are dollar-based, but part are European-based. The effect of the dollar on the jaws also plays into this. That is a bit it. There is nothing you should read into it. We go for operating jaws. Sometimes it can be a bit different for the two reasons that I just mentioned, Anke. We are very focused on costs, do not get me wrong.
Thank you.
Next question is from Sharath Kumar, Deutsche Bank.
Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my questions. I have a couple. Firstly, on asset management, can you help us understand the moving parts of revenues in more detail? I know revenues were down sequentially despite the Q1 Q2 rise in AEM. Maybe can you break down the impacts between FX impact, free margin pressure, also on real estate? Is it possible to quantify? Maybe how far is it from the recurring rate? When do you think it can go back to those levels? That is on asset management. Second one is on R1. I note your comments about R1 being freed up from base effects. My question is on the sustainability of the organic fleet growth, which is trending above your main tier. Do you think this level of growth is sustainable? Or other way is, if fleet growth slows, do you think this can be compensated by higher leasing and service margins? Thank you.
Thank you for your questions. When you look at asset management, indeed, asset management, you should be aware. That within the division that we call asset management, there is also real estate. I know, but we do not give these activities, but I can give you color. That activity on real estate, even if rates are lower, has not, in the areas where we are, have not picked up. The contribution of it remains negative. Let us put it this way. It has a negative contribution this quarter. If you look at asset management, and this should be back. Towards the end of 2026, 2027, that should turn around. If you look at asset management, within asset management, there are indeed several effects. The negative market effects that we have is indeed. The market and the forex effect on the fees. The fees are driven by that. There is the forex effect that we mentioned.
Whatever is in dollars gets translated. The same is on the market that happens. Moreover. Asset management, on top of that, we do have a participation, for example coming from co-investment funds that we have. And also they are impacted by that, and they have a lower contribution. That is a bit where we stand. That is the things that weigh a bit on this quarter, but that should normally iron out going forward with both the market and the forex effects stabilizing. Indeed, if you look at Arval, whatever what we see with the setup that we have, we confirm in what we see that we have more than 10% inorganic growth.
If we discard for a second the resale value, if we look at the growth, both in the growth of the financing of the cars and the servicing that we charge, we are clearly on track to deliver 10% growth in 2025. That would be my answers.
Next question is from Flora Bocahut, Barclays.
Yes, thank you. The first question I'd like to ask you is on asset sales, simply whether this is something that you would consider. Rethinking also some of your business mix without giving us names or divisions, obviously, on this, but just simply. Is this something that could happen? What would be the considerations for that to happen? The second question is on the recent changes that you have announced on the governance, which I think are ahead of your next business plan and also in light of the SIU.
I did not see Europe Med mentioned in there, so I was just wondering how Europe Med fits in your strategy into the next plan. Thank you.
I guess this is the same question. Asset disposals and Euro Med. We are continuously monitoring all businesses. Even within businesses, species of a certain business. Looking at the past five, eight years, we did a lot. Potentially, we can still continue to move in a number of situations. Honestly, we have no situations that are, I would say, non-core. I mean, most of the businesses we are having are core to the company. Of course, you can have some pieces that are slightly not 100% core, but this is very different from the situation we were having, let's say, five years, seven years, eight years ago. We are monitoring.
Sometimes we are offered to exit some situation, and the key point is about the price you are being offered. There is no need for us to move. You never know. Sometimes someone can be better positioned than us to run a certain business. This is the rule of the game. Governance, I mean, for CIB, it is going to be a different organization. It is going to be very much aligned with this idea of origin to distribute. Not anymore two measure blocks, one being global market and one being, let's say, the corporate bank. It has to be totally integrated. It is going to be much more efficient with. Less capital-consumptive type of approach. Looking at the commercial bank within the eurozone, one of the major issues is to deliver a common approach in terms of investing in technology, digital apps, and so on and so on.
We need to go one step further. We had a lot of cross synergies in between those different countries, these different, let's say, markets. We need to go even further in terms of integrating those businesses in terms of how you invest the cash flow of those businesses. We need to invest that in a very much disciplined way so we can leverage the same way a certain euro invested in technology for the benefit of the different local markets. The fact that we are going to have one person in charge of this perimeter is going to help and to deliver that discipline. There's nothing new, but it's going to be much more, I would say, that way, and we can probably extract some and even a lot more profitability for such a kind of an approach.
We need, especially looking at, I would say, personal individuals, to deliver something that is more, I would say, common to the platforms and not every time just delivered in a slightly different way in the different banks. This is one of the issues. Of course, this will help also integrating those markets within, I would say, the global group, CIB, IPS, asset management, and so on and so on. Once again, these little changes are not that little, in fact.
For CIB, it's going to be one step further in terms of aligning the business model with the prospect of originate-to-distribute and eurozone commercial bank trying to behave as one bank and not four or five different banks with investments that are going to be repeated one after another, but just one for the sake of the whole eurozone region, to put it that way, in a very simple approach. We need to do that before, of course, the next strategic plan is going to be looked at in more detail next year, starting in 2026, beginning of 2026, and we will announce that new term plan beginning of 2027. We need to look at that very closely so we can deliver the best numbers looking at the targets. Clearly, one of the key elements is going to be the return on tangible equity. There's a lot to come.
We already said that those, I would say, programs that are already disclosed, XIM, French commercial bank, personal finance, and so on, are going to provide with one percentage of return on tangible equity on top of the 12% in 2026. We can do better if we look at the situation in a more integrated way. This is very much the focus of the next plan, to extract more value from a higher integrated model. Of course, probably dropping some businesses that could become, in that game, slightly less core, as someone said before. This is the rule of the game.
Thank you.
That was the last question?
Yes.
Thank you so much for your time. Once again, as you can see, we are very much on track, looking at the trajectory we announced beginning of that year. You can very much count on us in terms of delivery.
You will see, I would say, in the second half, the impact of what has been, I would say, already organized, prepared. The EUR 12.2 billion is, as we said, the minimum, and next year is going to be an even better year. Rapidly, we will be beginning of 2027 with this new term plan. This is the story of the company. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the call of BNP Paribas second quarter 2025 results. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.