BNP Paribas SA (EPA:BNP)
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Apr 27, 2026, 5:35 PM CET
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Investor update

Mar 17, 2026

Operator

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the deep dive call dedicated to asset management with members of the top management of BNP Paribas. For your information, this conference call is being recorded. Supporting slides are available on BNP Paribas IR website, invest.bnpparibas.com. During today's presentation, you will be able to ask questions by pressing star and one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to ask a question, please make sure to be in a quiet area to maximize audio quality. I would like now to hand the call over to Bénédicte Thibord, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead, madam.

Bénédicte Thibord
Head of Investor Relations, BNP Paribas

Good afternoon, everyone. I'm delighted to welcome you to this deep dive on our integrated and scaled up asset management platform. Joining me today are Renaud Dumora, Deputy COO and Head of Investment and Protection Services, IPS. Lars Machenil, Group CFO. Sandro Pierri, CEO of BNP Paribas Asset Management. Rob Gambi, head of our combined liquid investment capabilities, and Isabelle Scemama, head of our combined alternatives capabilities. Today, we are here to present our new asset management platform, and we'll go through our strategy, growth drivers, synergy delivery, and the financial trajectory to 2030 that will ultimately contribute to the group's ROTE trajectory of more than 13% in 2028. I'll now pass the mic to Lars.

Lars Machenil
Group CFO, BNP Paribas

Thank you, Bénédicte. As announced in our full year results presentation, BNP Paribas has a clear target, exceed 13% of ROTE by 2028. IPS is a key contributor to that ambition because it is structurally recurring, fee-based and capital light. As Renaud will mention next, it is now entering a new phase in terms of scale and growth. As you know, before diving into it, at BNP Paribas, we have launched several strategic plans. First of all, on CPBS, and this to achieve levels of profitability in line with group targets and bridge the gap towards our 13% ROTE target in 2028. Moreover, over the past years, you are aware that we build and deliver a strong and at scale CIB platform, which has outperformed peers both in terms of growth and profitability.

We are basically now replicating this approach in IPS and in particular asset management, which will be a key contributor to reaching our next level of profitability improvement by 2028, delivering an additional 0.4% improvement in ROTE by that time. The positive impact of asset management, the group profitability journey, will also be significant beyond 2028. Before handing over, I want to draw your attention to a point relevant for those modeling our results. In particular, and in order to provide a clear trajectory of our expanded business line, we have updated our financial closure disclosure to present a standalone asset management vision. In the past, you had the results of real estate business and IPS investment that were part of it, and notably the expected improvement coming from the recovery of real estate.

They are not included in the asset management trajectory, but they will be included going forward in our wealth management business line. Having said that, let me now hand it over to Renaud to go into more detail on the strategic importance of IPS in the group's trajectory. Renaud.

Renaud Dumora
Deputy COO and Head of Investment and Protection Services, BNP Paribas

Thank you, Lars, and good afternoon, everyone. Before we dive into our asset management business, let me briefly step back and look at the broader context of our IPS. To set the scene, it is key to highlight the very supportive megatrends which are at play in our environment, notably in Europe, our core market. On the one hand, there are massive and growing needs for savings, retirement products and protection. Household savings are substantial, wealth continues to accumulate, and demographics are increasing the pressure on retirement systems. On the other hand, there are massive and growing needs for investments, whether it is energy transition, technological transformation, sovereignty, defense readiness, or the re-industrialization agenda. IPS is very well positioned, being the perfect conduit between the needs of savings and the needs of investments. Let's move on to slide seven to present our IPS platform.

As we come close to the end of our strategic plan, a new IPS division is emerging. Beyond scale, we now offer a unique and diversified continuum of solutions for our clients across insurance, wealth management, asset management and real estate, and we have leading positions in core markets. IPS also combines strategic features for the group and for financial markets because these business lines are fee-based, recurring business, high profitability, synergetic with the whole group and presenting low risk. If you go to slide eight, the upper part of the slide recaps the significant acceleration achieved over the past two years. The most significant is clearly on asset management, which is the topic of today, but other IPS divisions are also gaining speed. On insurance, we made great moves in terms of distribution partnerships, notably in Italy with Poste Vita and in France with Neuflize Vie.

On wealth management, we consolidated our strong growth dynamics with the acquisition of HSBC Private Bank in Germany. The change in scale is reflected, of course, in our financials. Since 2023, our assets under management have increased by EUR 1.2 trillion and our revenues by EUR 1.3 billion. Let's now move to the core topic of today, our scaled up asset management platform. I will hand over to Sandro Pierri, CEO of BNP Paribas Asset Management. Sandro, the floor is yours.

Sandro Pierri
CEO, BNP Paribas Asset Management

Thank you, Renaud, and good afternoon, everyone. Let me give you a bit more details on the profile of the asset management platform, slide nine. We're now a EUR 1.6 trillion asset manager at scale and diversified, and therefore designed to perform well across the different market cycles. We are, I think, the only European player with a full asset class coverage at this scale. We have almost EUR 1.2 trillion of AUM across active management and ETFs, including EUR 750 billion in fixed income and money market and of course, a number one position in alternative assets with EUR 300 billion.

From a distribution perspective, we're quite diversified, leveraging the partnership with our insurance key partners, Cardif, AXA, which approximately represent 1/3 of our AUM, while 1/3 comes from third party institutional and 1/3 from retail and wealth distribution and JVs. Also to be noted that more than 80% of our assets are outside the BNP Paribas group. Geographically, we combine a strong European footprint with meaningful exposure to Asia Pacific growth, which is today 17% of our AUM, and notably via our strategic JV in China and India with leading local financial institution. Now, on the following slide, we just want to pass the message that the new asset management platform leverages on combined strength. Since 2020, our franchises have been among the fastest growing in the markets and have delivered more than EUR 200 billion of net inflows across different market cycles.

These outperformance in net flows have then translated into a strong fee-based revenue and pre-tax income growth with a step up, given by the integration of AXA IM. Let me now focus on our strategic roadmap. That's slide 25, sorry, 12, which really summarizes why we're well positioned in the current industry landscape. In alternatives, we are the number one European player in a U.S.-dominated industry, and the segment is structurally attractive. It's 20% of industry AUM, but over 50% of revenues. Isabelle will deep dive on the opportunities there. In ETF, another significant growth factors in the industry, investor appetite we know is accelerating, and we are the fastest growing platform in the top 10. Now with the scale and with an enhanced distribution reach to accelerate further.

In active management, scale and quality are decisive to gain market shares. We have strong position, number three in fixed income and money market, number three in thematics, and number two European player on active funds. From a client segment perspective, we're also well-positioned, I think, with a number one European position in long-term savings for insurance and pension funds, and with strong foundation with our partners, BNP Paribas and AXA entities and networks to accelerate on the retail and wealth segment from our current number six position. One of the last trend is clearly flows are increasingly concentrated towards the largest asset manager, and clearly we think that our new scale is a key advantage. Now, if these are the trends, how our strategy has been built up to take advantage of that, and I think we're.

It's built on four distinctive advantages. It's clearly our position as the sole European asset manager to offer the full spectrum at scale across liquid and illiquid asset classes. The integrated BNP group model, which provides privileged access to permanent capital, origination, partnership, and distribution capabilities, the insurance partnership, and of course, our recognized expertise in sustainability. Now, the following slide, which is slide 13, is really trying to highlight our strategic roadmap. Isabelle and Rob will tell you more about it, but just to put the foundation, our strategy is clearly to build a leading long-term savings platform by combining a comprehensive high-performing offering across alternative and active management and ETF, and by delivering solutions aligned with our client needs across channels, supported by also four key enablers.

More specifically, the pillars are, in alternatives, we will strengthen our leadership built on our strong European expertise with our strong track record and a full asset class coverage. In active management and ETF, we're capitalizing on our critical size and our proven performance to scale distinctive strategy and of course, accelerating on ETFs. From a client focus perspective, two segments institutional, where we aim to be the go-to platform for insurers and pension funds, leveraging the long-term partnership with AXA and with BNP Paribas Cardif. In retail and wealth, we have a strategy of using our alternative capabilities, the enhanced ETF offering and active management, offering, combined with proven capabilities of providing innovative digital solutions to support internal and external distribution networks. To deliver the strategy, we will activate four key enablers. Technology and data.

We have a scalable and a robust technology platform and are ready for the agentic AI revolution. The second enabler is clearly the group's integrated model, which is one of our key differentiators. Third enabler is sustainability. Of course, the fourth is people, which is critical in this business. Now, how this strategy support the financial ambition, that's on slide 14. The financial ambition is to almost double our pre-tax income by 2030. Starting from our 25 combined baseline, which is shown here, integrating all the different businesses, we have highlighted the growth from a 25 comparable basis, which includes the full AXA IM for the full year in 2025 to eliminate the change of scope impact.

By 2030, the trajectory is pretty clear and is supported by cumulative net inflows of approximately EUR 350 billion over the plan period, resulting in an AUM growth in excess of 5% per year, a 4% revenue CAGR over the same lifetime of the plan, significant cost discipline, with cost being broadly flat over the period, and as a result, cost income ratio improving from the current 71% to below 60%. This will lead to a strong increase in profitability with pre-tax income nearly doubling versus the 2025 pro forma. It's a 13% CAGR and a return on tangible equity above 65% by 2030. Two points are important to underline here.

First, the plan is based on strong growth, which is clearly supported by the strategic positioning and the revenue synergies, and we are not relying on a meaningful market effect. The second point to note is that execution discipline is key. As I've highlighted, cost synergies will offset inflation and investment required for growth, which basically means that growth is completely self-funded. These are the highlights, and let me now hand over to Isabelle to deep dive on alternatives.

Isabelle Scemama
Head of Combined Alternatives Capabilities, BNP Paribas Asset Management

Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you, Sandro . Alternatives may be less familiar to some of you, so let me briefly cover the opportunity we see, our ambition and our model and why our model makes a difference. Let's move to slide 15 and quickly review what we are seeing in the market. We hold a leading position in alternatives in Europe, and alternatives is the most promising growth market. Despite representing less than 20% of the global assets under management, alternatives account for 50% of industry revenues, underscoring its importance as a key growth driver. Alternatives include four main asset classes, private and alternative credit, real estate, infrastructure and private equity. Over the past two years, we have seen a significant acceleration in private credit.

This growth has been driven by several factors, notably the tendency of traditional banks to accelerate loan distribution to optimize their balance sheet. This has created new opportunities for asset managers and has led to the emergence of asset-based lending, or ABL market, which covers a broad range of credit types, including commercial real estate debt, infrastructure debt, consumer loans, SME lending and leases. These assets can be purchased directly or structured through securitization or purchased through SRT, significant risk transfer, offering a large range of investment opportunities. In parallel, this momentum has been supported by substantial amounts of capital that have been raised, notably by U.S. firms from wealth management clients. Two other asset classes, real estate and infrastructure, are expected to be a key growth driver going forward. They are repriced following interest rate increases and offer attractive yield.

Entry points so are attractive with value that have adjusted, and they offer strong cash flow prospects. This is particularly true in European infrastructure sectors supported by structural trends like energy transition, decarbonation, electrification and urbanization. What about private equity? This asset class has historically been a growth engine for the industry. Today, the low DPI, due to difficult exit environment, make capital raising more challenging, but on the positive, make secondary strategies increasingly attractive. All in all, investor appetite for illiquid assets continue to grow, driven by a shift from liquid investment among institutional investors and increased interest from wealth and retail clients. A broader consolidation trend is underway. Investors seek to forge strategic relationships through a one-stop shop approach. Now moving to the next slide.

BNP Paribas Asset Management manages approximately EUR 300 billion in assets across alternative, making us the number one alternative player in Europe and ranking among the top 10 globally in a market that is dominated by U.S. firms. This strong European footprint is a clear competitive advantage. We see more investors considering Europe as an attractive alternative to balance their portfolio, and this is, of course, exacerbated by the geopolitical tension. Our credibility, our strong and proven expertise, our deep understanding of the real economy and ability to identify early trends position us very well to seize these opportunities. Our capacity to source assets across geographies and asset classes and sub-asset classes, plus our disciplined execution enables us to capitalize on this environment. We are confident that our strategic focus will continue to deliver strong growth and sustainable value creation.

Let's now with the next slide highlight our core strengths across key asset classes. Starting with real estate. We are the number one real estate manager in Europe with over 30 years of experience. We have built operational platforms in sectors like student accommodation, life sciences or senior housing. Our strategy has resisted over-leveraging, a factor that has negatively impacted U.S. private equity players. We have to keep in mind that over the long term, approximately 75% of our returns come from cash flows that are generally very well indexed on inflation. Our strong conviction is that true value creation is driven by development, building repositioning or building transformation, and active asset management. Thanks to this development DNA, we have developed a decarbonization methodology that is recognized and adopted worldwide. Regarding alternative credit.

Over 25 years, we have built a solid track record across private and alternative credit. We cover the entire spectrum of asset-based and direct lending, consumer, corporate loans, commercial real estate debt, infrastructure lending that we originate or we purchase directly as well as loan or invest through structured format like securitization or significant risk transfer. We have a more than 20-year track record on each of those asset classes. We pioneered SRT through our first fund in 2001, and a CRE debt platform launched in 2005. Today, we manage around EUR 30 billion in ABS and CLOs, making us the largest investor and manager. One of the largest investor and manager. We can invest in each of those bricks separately, on behalf of institutional investors or pool them into multi-credit strategies through evergreen structure, taking advantage of the relative value across strategies.

Now, infrastructure. We focus on core corporate strategies, which are increasingly attractive as investors shift toward stable, yield-generating assets. Our primary focus is Europe. That is a large, mature and diversified market, comparable in size to the U.S., but with less reliance on fossil fuels. Opportunity spans sectors like transportation, digitalization, energy transition and electrification. Finally, regarding private equity. Private equity is managed by CAPZA, our private equity franchise that offers middle market and flexible strategies across Europe with our sixth vintage going on. Our latest vintage have delivered top DPI results, and we are also expanding into thematic strategies such as natural capital and global health. We are also leveraging our extensive fund platform, including private equity and infrastructure, to expand in secondary strategies, including GP-led initiatives and LP transactions.

Moving to the next slide and looking ahead, our goal is clear: to consolidate our European leadership and remain a top global alternative asset manager. We plan to scale further, expanding our large-scale flagship funds. This will be supported by a strategic partnership with AXA and BNP Paribas Cardif, investing their capital alongside third-party investors on a pari-passu basis. We will remain very disciplined and focused. We will continue to rationalizing funds, particularly in real estate, to improve efficiency and impact. Our focus will be on flagship, scalable and transformative strategies that generate sustainable growth. Finally, we will harness BNP's distribution in wealth management and retail and origination capabilities, maintaining rigorous underwriting standards. For this disciplined approach will enable us to deliver high-quality investments tailored to evolving client needs and sustain our leadership.

To conclude, before handing over to Rob Gambi, I can summarize my argument in five simple questions. First, will the alternative market continue to grow? The answer is certainly yes. Is our European footprint a competitive edge? The answer is yes, especially considering current turmoil. Do we favor certain asset classes? We will continue to expand across the asset classes to take advantage of investors' tendency to reduce the number of GPs they partner with. Is being part of BNP Paribas a competitive edge? Yes, certainly. The last question. What are our priorities during the integration phase? We will execute our strategy focusing on large scalable products.

Rob Gambi
Head of Combined Liquid Investment Capabilities, BNP Paribas Asset Management

Thank you, Isabelle, and good afternoon, everyone. Turning to slide 19, active management and ETFs. As we all know, active flows have been and are moving towards strategies with proven performance and or strong differentiation. The current and recent environment provides ample opportunity for alpha generation. Secular shifts in technology, sustainability, geopolitics are opening up compelling opportunities for active strategies in equities, fixed income, and multi-asset. Meanwhile, passive keeps growing. Its share of global AUM is estimated to be rising from 32% today to 37% by 2030. Accounting for for around EUR 33 trillion, including EUR 13 trillion in ETFs. Overall, we expect liquid markets to continue to attract steady inflows of about 2% per year, with approximately 70% of the flows coming from retail and wealth, with insurers a major driver of institutional growth. Turning to slide 20.

We have a diversified scaled investment platform built to perform across market cycles and capture growth opportunities. At its core, we combine strong fixed income, high conviction equity and multi-asset capabilities, creating a powerful engine for alpha generation. Performance is our top priority. 83% of AUM has outperformed benchmarks over three years to the end of 2025 gross of fees on the historical BNP AM perimeter. This has driven sustained asset growth over recent years, as previously explained by Sandro. As a result, and with the AXA IM acquisition, we now manage around EUR 1.15 trillion in AUM, including nearly EUR 450 billion in European open-ended funds, making us the number two European active fund manager. Scale is a key differentiator for us, particularly in fixed income and money markets, where we manage EUR 750 billion in assets.

Combining full market coverage with sharp client specialization. As one example of the benefits of scale managed in a client-centric and efficient manner, the market share of our euro money market funds has nearly doubled since 2020 without adding any investment headcount. This is just one example. Beyond fixed income, we also run a leading high conviction equities franchise. We're number three in thematics, number four in European equities, while multi-asset remains central to our retail and retirement offering. To complete the picture, alongside active management, we've built a solid EUR 130 billion systematic and quantitative platform, and we plan to accelerate our ETF development to respond to growing investor demand. Next slide. Moving to our strong ambition detailed on slide 21, our goal is to generate around EUR 185 billion of net inflows between 2026 and 2030, excluding market effects.

We'll deliver this through three clear drivers. First, a performance culture. In active management, performance drives inflows. That means continuously strengthening investment results, setting clear KPIs by client segment, and fully leveraging our research platform, sharing the insights across the entire platform, and scaling our best ideas. Second, focus, scale and breadth. We are actively reshaping our business mix, leveraging demonstrably strong capabilities to scale our mutual funds, increasing the number with assets over EUR 1 billion in AUM, where efficiency and distribution momentum are strongest. We will accelerate our ETF development. Finally, industrialization. Improved organization and coordination of important support functions from trading, reporting and servicing will enable us to absorb growth at marginal cost. Thanks to this integrated industrial model at scale, the platform will be a major scalable driver of our profitability growth. Slide 22, please. Let me now focus on ETFs.

ETFs are a core growth lever for us, offering greater accessibility of our investment capabilities for our existing clients and significantly widening our addressable market. We ended 2025 with EUR 58 billion in ETF AUM, EUR 11 billion of which was raised in 2025. We are targeting EUR 100 billion of net inflows over 2026 - 2030. A clear ambition to scale significantly by 2030. ETF penetration in Europe continues to rise and is set to reach EUR 3.7 trillion by 2030. We're not aiming to compete with U.S. mega players. Instead, we are outgrowing the market by focusing on selected segments where we have clear differentiation. In fact, in Europe, we were the fastest growing platform among the top 10 in 2025. To deliver EUR 100 billion of inflows, we'll launch more than 75 ETFs, expanding our range.

We will fully leverage BNP Paribas distribution, wealth managers, digital platforms, discretionary solutions, and our global markets partnership, while continuing to develop innovative ETF solutions. Let me now hand over back to Sandro.

Sandro Pierri
CEO, BNP Paribas Asset Management

Thank you, Rob, and I'm gonna cover the two sections related to client coverage. Let's start with insurance partners, which is on slide 23. Clearly, our strategic partnership with AXA and Cardif gives us a strong, credible value proposition also for third-party insurers. This is a sector with solid growth prospects as smaller and mid-size insurers will need to rethink their operating model when it comes to investment, impact of solvency, scale and use of alternatives. Our ambition is to grow assets managed for third-party insurance by EUR 40 billion. Thanks to our partnership with AXA and Cardif, we have developed the expertise, the investment capabilities and the operational setup required to serve third-party insurers. We already are the largest insurance asset manager in Europe and a key player on third-party insurers.

We will offer a very modular value proposition from high-performing liquid and alternative strategy with insurance-friendly features that we can offer to all insurers, including some of the largest industry player to integrated solution, providing support in strategic asset allocation and portfolio construction for insurers wishing to externalize part of their general account management and potentially to develop a strategic partnership. Encompassing also the distribution of unit-linked products. Now, the following slide is on the retail and wealth, which is the other important driver of our strategic plan. This segment should outpace institutional growth in Europe, notably as retirement savings become more self-provision and a general policy need to mobilize European savings. We have strong foundation through our BNP Paribas networks and our third-party networks today of similar size, which we can further leverage and accelerate with third-party distributors of different types, insurers, digital platform.

Our model of value proposition spans the full chain, so from stronger product set for the segment, from scale blockbuster across active funds, ETF, and semi-liquid alternatives, up to end-to-end, discretionary portfolio management investment solutions, sales enablement, marketing, distribution, animation, all this powered by more digital services to bring more efficiency to distributors and more personalization to end customer, notably leveraging on our fintech Gambit and the related AI capabilities. The ambition in this segment is to generate EUR 130 billion of net inflows by 2030, which includes EUR 75 billion of ETF. Now let me spend a few minutes on one of the key enabler, which is the tech side. That's on slide 25. Our growth plan clearly requires a scalable, robust, and industrialized technology and operations platform.

To achieve this, we run an end-to-end investment process leveraging Aladdin and eFront with full integrated trading. There's an important key scalability indicator, which is automation. As of today, 57% of trades are automated on the legacy BNP Paribas Asset Management scope. Consistently with this industrialized setup, operations follows our global hub model, leveraging group assets such as CIB, BP2S, and our Indian Romanian delivery centers. Also building on this foundation, we're onboarding the AXA IM into the platform and enriching it to support some of the growth initiatives, insurance, ETF acceleration, retail and wealth with Gambit. All of these provides robust foundations to power the next agentic wave. Centralized investment and CRM data, along with a comprehensive data hub, where company data are stored, transformed, and made accessible to the entire organization.

A quant platform, which is directly connected to the data hub to allow quant engineers to experiment, perform sophisticated calculation, and train models. Of course, a full AI capability suite. Ultimately, our priority is accelerating trusted agents production towards agentic platform. This is a good transition to slide 26, which is a bit of a focus on AI, which is clearly particularly relevant for asset management. Our AI journey is really progressing across three pillars. First, operational efficiency. Agentic approaches can automate end-to-end processes. For example, today, we already deploy 70 specialized agents to process unstructured data and accelerate workflows in alternatives. GenAI content automation, for example, for RFPs and marketing, which are already delivering around 15% productivity gains. Second, client engagement. With our Gambit, we deliver digital advisory and discretionary portfolio management services at scale for retail and wealth distribution.

Today, we are live with 65,000 personalized portfolio and over EUR 5 billion managed in France, Luxembourg, and Italy, together with automated advisory content for retail advisor at scale with more than 800,000 portfolio comments produced by natural language generation. Third, this is clearly the area where we are only at the beginning, augmenting portfolio managers. AI and quant tools support research and portfolio construction end-to-end, including multi-factor allocation, which today are used to scale across EUR 18 billion of AUM, data-driven signals such as sentiment signal, and the use of GenAI to assist due diligence processes with higher productivity. In parallel, of course, we are preparing for the promising mainstream of tokenization building on a number of successful pilots, which we have done together with other entities of the BNP Paribas group.

Now, moving to slide 27, this is, to me, a bit of a recap of where we stand in the integration journey and what remains to achieve. As you can see from the slide, we are well on track as we have delivered the first milestone on schedule. Following the closing of the AXA IM acquisition in July 2025 as planned, we have completed the legal merger of the main entities of AXA IM, BNPP REIM and BNPP AM, under a unified structure owned by BNP Paribas Cardif and operating under a single brand name, BNP Paribas Asset Management. At the end of January, we launched the consultation processes with works council around the target organization that we expect to start implementing mid-2026. We have a clear integration plan, and we'll continue to execute it relentlessly.

We aim to complete the fund range rationalization by mid-2027 and the convergence of IT and operations by November 2027. The merger of legal entities enable us also to accelerate on the capture of joint commercial initiatives across the different platforms. We are therefore on track to deliver cost and revenue synergies in line with the timeline which we have evoked in the previous slide. Let's move into the financial trajectory, which is slide 29. And let me now show how the strategy we presented with Isabelle and Rob translate into numbers. First, across asset classes, we target approximately EUR 350 billion of cumulative net inflows over the period of the plan. Across alternatives, active management and ETF, and also, thanks to our joint ventures.

Overall on active management and ETFs specifically, we aim to keep outperforming the market on net new cash by about 1.5%-2% per year. Our growth rate in alternative in terms of net inflow is about 6% per year. Overall, given our asset mix, this supports a 4% revenue compounded annual growth rate through 2030. Which includes, of course, the revenue growth synergies from our scaled up comprehensive platform and integrated model. As you can see, the growth is mainly net inflows driven, and we're quite conservative on the, on any market effect, which is, which will not translate into significant revenue upside. Synergies are material, which is also, indicating the transformational value of AXA IM.

It comes from a number of actions, and is not only synergies related to BNP Paribas Asset Management, but they go beyond and are delivered in our business line from the internalization of services which were previously provided by third parties. Let me then move to slide 30, which gives a bit more color on the revenue synergies. The total of the profit before tax impact of the synergies, so revenue net of marginal cost, is under EUR 50 million. With approximately half of those achieved by end 2027 and 100% by 2029. There are basically two main categories of revenue synergies. The first one are insourcing of asset management operations and capabilities. Extension of the partnership with Cardif for the management of its general accounts.

Increased investment of Cardif in internal alternative funds. Of course, re-internalization of back office and middle office to BP2S. Increased cross-sell with CIB on ETF financing and flows. These synergies account for about 2/3 of the total. The message here is that the quality of revenue synergies is quite high because 2/3 are in a way within the overall group. The second component of revenue synergies is clearly linked to accelerated commercial development. Additional business generated by the combination, ETF acceleration, leveraging on the new scale, more alternatives distributed through wealth channel and expanded insurance outsourcing with third-party insurance. Revenue synergies create value not only inside AM, as I said, but also across the entire group, reflecting and leveraging the integrated model.

Importantly, to give comfort as well to the trajectory since the closing of the acquisition, our new asset management platform has generated approximately EUR 15 billion of net inflows up to the end of 2025, highlighting the trust and support of our clients in our industrial growth project. Now let's move to cost, which is the following slide. So slide 31. On cost, discipline is key. We will ensure cost synergies offset inflation and investment needed to support growth. The synergy envelope is quite clear. It's EUR 400 million of cost synergies, which are delivered progressively between 2025 and 2029, with around 2/3 by the end of 2027 and a full run rate by 2029. We're moving fast.

We're investing EUR 690 million of restructuring costs to secure our streamlined operating model. This discipline will clearly support the improvement of our cost income ratio to below 60% in 2030. In the following slide, so slide 32, we provide a bit more detail on the cost synergies. The target is EUR 400 million, as we said, of which 385 are within the asset management scope. Which is a significant 18% reduction of the combined asset management cost base. As I said, deliver progressively to full run rate by 2029. There's a combination of levers that we're gonna activate to achieve these synergies. Rationalization of investment strategies, portfolios and/or fund ranges. The convergence of IT and operations towards a unified front to back platform.

Scale effects across functions and managerial layers. Offshoring and nearshoring optimization. Real estate footprint optimization, and of course, external spend streamlining. The net effect of all these action would also result in a 1,200 position globally impacted by the plan, including approximately 600 in France. The consultation of our worker council is still ongoing. That completes basically our financial trajectory, and I am now happy to hand it over to Lars Machenil for the final remarks and comments.

Lars Machenil
Group CFO, BNP Paribas

Thank you. Indeed, we are now at the end of our presentation. Basically what you've seen is we presented during our fourth quarter results, a trajectory of 13% ROTE. What you saw today is with our new asset management plan, we reinforce the group's profitability trajectory and create a new engine for medium-term growth. Our ambitions are clear. I expressed them in CAGRs 25%, 30%. Assets under management growth above +5%, revenues above +4%, cost flat, pre-tax profit up more than 13%, and all this leading to a ROTE, you know, our pre-tax return on notional equity of above 65%. Our strength and levers to achieve our plan are already in place, and this supported by a strong governance and focused execution.

This plan, combined with the investments in our wealth management and insurance businesses, reinforces the positioning of IPS at the heart of the group, in particular thanks to its fee-based and capitalized business, as well as capacity of generating significant cross-selling revenues. To conclude, BNP Paribas has a strong focus on increasing its profitability with the first step to reach 13% ROTE, leveraging ongoing strategic plans, combined with its integrated model and supported by its scalable platforms. As I said, the 13% is a first step. As you see here, our growth and profitability improvements will continue beyond 2028 with levers that are already engaged. With this, I thank you very much for your attention, and I open the floor to Q&A.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, if you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad. Please lift your handset, ensure that the mute function on your telephone is switched off, and that you are in a quiet area to maximize audio quality. I also would like to remind you to please limit yourself to a maximum of two questions. We will take questions as many as time permits. Again, please press star one to ask a question. First question is from Delphine Lee, JP Morgan.

Delphine Lee
Equity Research Analyst, JPMorgan

Yes, good afternoon. Thank you for taking my questions. So just three on my side then. The first one is on private credit. I mean, we've seen a few issues in some of the funds, and it looks like, you know, sentiment is turning a little bit. I mean, are you seeing anything on your side in terms of changes in, you know, appetite for this asset class, considering all the news flow and headlines that we are getting? Second question is on the cost target of sort of flattish, including synergies. If you look at sort of, you know, that slide that you have, we look at inflation and the growth-driven initiative that you have.

I mean, it looks like you know, you're assuming something like 3.5%-3.6% growth excluding cost synergies. It does feel like your business doesn't have a lot of jaws, which I'm a little bit surprised about. Just, you know, thinking and considering it coming from, you know, 70%+ cost income ratio, obviously going towards below 60% is great. I'm just surprised of, you know, why we are not seeing a bit more operating leverage, and you know, jaws especially. Thank you.

Isabelle Scemama
Head of Combined Alternatives Capabilities, BNP Paribas Asset Management

I will thank you for the question. I will answer the one on private credit. Yes, there is noise in the market on private credit. There is two different things. Some defaults that happen notably on ABL. It's mainly due to frauds, so they are quite specific and mainly U.S. There is this noise on the impact of software, AI and software that is highly represented in the direct lending market, and direct lending market being also repackaged in BDC that are listed investment vehicles in the U.S. There is a lot of volatility on the BDC and some requests for ABS redemptions because of the exposure of the BDC to the software market. This is what's happening. This is mainly U.S.

What I have explained is that our private and alternative credit market is encompassing a very large range of credit. We continue to see a lot of appetite from investors, notably from institutional investors, for those asset classes that offer very good diversification to their fixed income allocation. Just to keep in mind that this asset-based lending market is $40 trillion, that is comparable to the fixed income market. This continues to offer a large range of opportunities. The noise is quite specific, mainly U.S. and on our side, the portfolio performs well. We have not been exposed to the loans that have defaulted, and we continue to deploy capital.

Lars Machenil
Group CFO, BNP Paribas

Maybe I'll take the second questions on the cost growth and cost income. Look, the quick answer is that we are projecting a significant growth in our business, EUR 350 billion of net inflows, which requires, especially at the beginning of the plan, some front-loaded investment to support that growth.

I think that's probably the answer on the cost trajectory. We cannot have above average growth without investing in the business, and I think that explained the cost trajectory. The second comment that I've made, I want to remind the audience that in building our plan, we have assumed an almost zero impact on revenue coming from market effect. History, I think, is clearly pointing to a higher number that would basically show a bigger better operating leverage. We have been quite conservative because we think it's the right thing to do in terms of planning, of not projecting any future market performance related revenue growth.

Delphine Lee
Equity Research Analyst, JPMorgan

Thank you very much.

Operator

Next question is from Sharath Kumar, Deutsche Bank.

Sharath Kumar
VP and Equity Research Analyst, Deutsche Bank

Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my question. I have two, please. Firstly, on the alternatives AUM growth, you target a 5% CAGR, which compares with 9% projected for the industry. Wanted to understand why the conservatism. Is it because of a lower growth that you project for real estate, which is your largest asset class? And also can you provide a blended management fee margin just for the alternatives portfolio? Second, a follow-up to Delphine's question on private credit. Can you provide details on the nearly EUR 100 billion private credit portfolio? You said EUR 30 billion in CLOs and ABS. Maybe can you provide a full breakdown by product and by geography? And if I can sneak in a sub question to private credit, but more for Lars.

I know this is outside the purview of asset management, but within your banking book, you have around EUR 25 billion exposure to private credit. What can you say to reassure about the quality of this portfolio? Thank you.

Isabelle Scemama
Head of Combined Alternatives Capabilities, BNP Paribas Asset Management

Regarding the growth, yes, you're right. The big exposure is on real estate. This is growing more slowly, and we are rationalizing the offer. Globally, across asset classes, we have a growth strategy, notably on infrastructure, but also on credit. Real estate is expected also to re-accelerate quite rapidly. Regarding the margin and the fees, there is a very large range of fees, so on each, depending on the asset class, from 20 basis points to 2%. This is consistent with the very large asset classes we cover. The last question was for you, Lars, I think.

Lars Machenil
Group CFO, BNP Paribas

The breakdown on the private credit.

Isabelle Scemama
Head of Combined Alternatives Capabilities, BNP Paribas Asset Management

The breakdown, excuse me. The breakdown on credit. Yes, EUR 30 billion of ABS and CLO. We have EUR 25 billion of real estate debt. I think EUR 14 billion of infrastructure. We can provide more details, and the rest is a range of direct lending and asset-based lending, including SRT, including ILS, including leases, portfolio financing, lease financing.

Lars Machenil
Group CFO, BNP Paribas

All right. Thank you. I'll take your last question. We spoke about the investments on private credit, so let's also look at the financing. The financing that we have, which is basically done within CIB, which is indeed a small part of our local book, right? It's the 3% that you mentioned. If we look at it, for us in this private credit book, it's basically two core products. The first one, which is 99.0% of the exposure, are basically senior portfolio financing, and then there is 10%, which are basically revolving credit lines to the U.S. BDCs.

If you look at that, our exposure, as I said, which is basically booked in CIB, if I look at it a bit higher, right, it's small, it's well-diversified, it's strongly protected, and we have been also very selective with the clients we support. It's a bit whatever we say in our direct underwriting, this is what we do, because this is what we do. When we provide financing to a fund, what we basically do, we base it on the underlying, and we send in our teams to do the review as if we were doing the underwriting to the entities ourselves. That is why we feel comfortable. How else do you see this? Well, we have moderate loan-to-value and high over-collateralization. We do again, just like with normal credit.

We continuously review those collateral quality, act if needed. On top of that, we have the highest sector diversification. Even if you would look at loans, the small part it basically takes, again, if we stress test it, we have no impact on those vehicles. Moreover, the players to whom we provided that invest, they are basically the strongest private credit players. We look also at the counterparty to whom we do so. That is a bit the list of things why we feel comfortable with our exposure.

Sharath Kumar
VP and Equity Research Analyst, Deutsche Bank

Thank you, Lars.

Operator

Next question is from Stefan Stalmann at Autonomous Research.

Stefan Stalmann
Senior Analyst, Autonomous Research

Yes, good afternoon. Thank you very much for the event. Two questions, please. The first one is on your joint ventures, which are quite sizable. Could you maybe add a bit of color on what exactly they do, where they are, and also importantly.

What P&L contribution you expect them to provide, and whether it's actually mostly in the at-equity line or whether it's somehow accounted for in your revenue and costs? The second question is, I guess not directly related to asset management, but I was wondering what the rationale is for moving the real estate investment business into wealth management, where it seems to be quite a big distortion to a business that's actually not very large. Thank you very much.

Sandro Pierri
CEO, BNP Paribas Asset Management

Thank you. I'll take the first one on the JVs. JVs are predominantly concentrated between Asia in APAC. China is probably the largest hub for our JVs. We have JVs in Korea, and we have another reasonably large one in India. We have a smaller one in Chile. I would say the bulk of our JVs is in APAC, I would say some of the most promising geographies from an economic growth perspective, where we leverage on the partnership with local partners for distribution and knowledge of the local markets. The way these JVs are accounted for are basically share of earnings. They go... They don't go through the revenue line, but they go through below the line through the share of earnings. That's basically the quick answer.

Lars Machenil
Group CFO, BNP Paribas

Yes, the quick and to the point answer. On your question on real estate. What we wanted to do, as this asset management is one of the core engines going forward, we wanted to make sure that the reading of this new entity, which combines two existing entities, is clear to you, and that's why we decided to allocate the real estate into wealth management and have you have a clear view on the asset management part.

Stefan Stalmann
Senior Analyst, Autonomous Research

Okay. Thank you very much.

Operator

Next question is from Jacques-Henri Gaulard, Kepler Cheuvreux.

Jacques-Henri Gaulard
Head of Banks Sector Research, Kepler Cheuvreux

Yes, good afternoon. Thank you very much for the presentation, very enlightening. I had two, maybe three, if I may. The first on the gross margin. It's interesting because if I look at your revenue and the growth in your assets under management, that assumes that your gross margin is more or less gonna remain stable in an environment where every single asset manager actually telling you more or less that we're gonna lose one basis point per annum. What makes you comfortable that you're gonna keep it more or less that way? The second question, and I know you can't comment on press reports, but there is a report this morning that you would buy a minority stake in IndiaFirst. You know, I guess that even this, that would be a Cardif acquisition.

Typically, asset management would have a role to play in that in line with what you have described. The third question, maybe more generally, culturally, you know, we're having two companies that are really materially different, one more traditional, one more alternative driven, and how can you ensure that this cultural mix is not going to effectively get an undue amount of froth? Thank you very much.

Sandro Pierri
CEO, BNP Paribas Asset Management

Thank you. I'll take two out of the three questions, the first and the last. On the margins, of course, we don't disclose margin, but I think as an indication, I think there's a lot of product mix impact from the margin that you see, because clearly we're scaling up alternative at a lower margin, but we're scaling up ETF at a lower margin, but this is coming with also at the same time with significant inflows and growth from alternatives at a higher margin. The product mix is what help us to basically offset some of the margin pressures which are structurally in the industry. That's basically the answer to the first question.

On the third question, on the cultural integration, look, in any integration, and specifically in asset management, culture and people is absolutely key. We're early days in having people coming together. We are aware of the differences, and I think we have started to work from the end of last year to address some of those. That's clearly a big area of focus for all of us because we know that this is going to be an important one. On the second questions,

Yes, what can I say, Jacques? Nice try. As you know, we give no comment. The other thing what you need to know is that the key focus of the group is to get to a Common Equity Tier 1 of 13%. That's the key focus of what we will do in the coming quarters.

Jacques-Henri Gaulard
Head of Banks Sector Research, Kepler Cheuvreux

Thank you.

Sandro Pierri
CEO, BNP Paribas Asset Management

Thank you.

Operator

Next question is from Pierre Chédeville, CIC Market Solutions.

Pierre Chédeville
Sell-Side Equity Research Analyst, CIC Market Solutions

Yes, good afternoon. Thank you for the presentation. First question regarding performance fees. Some of your competitors give a percentage of performance fees on global revenues. Could you give us an indication on that? Regarding your organization in terms of investment, I wanted to know if you're going to have a, I would say, a centralized investment process or decentralized investment process. Are you going to be very centralized or not? Maybe a last question, sorry for that. I don't see the rationale for integrating BNP Paribas Real Estate with wealth management. What's beyond that choice? Thank you very much.

Sandro Pierri
CEO, BNP Paribas Asset Management

I'll take the first one, and then I'll leave the floor to Rob for the second one. The third one, I will leave it again to Lars. On the first one, the performance fee is a relatively small percentage of our revenue base. Just to give you a sense, I think, as of the end of 2025, approximately EUR 100 billion of assets are eligible for performance fee out of the EUR 1.6 trillion. Let's say as an indication, I think performance fee on a combined basis, that they never represented more than mid-single-digit% in our combined P&L. Rob, on the investment process and the setup.

Rob Gambi
Head of Combined Liquid Investment Capabilities, BNP Paribas Asset Management

Sure. The short answer to your question is, no, we don't run a centralized process. We won't be running a centralized process. Each area has its ability to pursue how it sees fit, best fit to deliver what clients are expecting. However, you'd expect us to have a whole range of different criteria as to the kinds of things that should underlie those processes, like risk management, like sharing of information, et cetera, which we don't have time to go through here. The short answer to your question is, it is not a centralized and won't be a centralized process.

Pierre Chédeville
Sell-Side Equity Research Analyst, CIC Market Solutions

And on-

Lars Machenil
Group CFO, BNP Paribas

Sorry, maybe Isabelle on the investment process on the alternative side.

Isabelle Scemama
Head of Combined Alternatives Capabilities, BNP Paribas Asset Management

On alternative, we have a centralized process by asset classes. We want to benefit from the global presence and our capacity to invest across asset classes and across geographies to really assess properly the relative value. We always have had a centralized investment committee and decision process on investment. That's what the way we will continue to operate. Maybe one comment on the culture because I am representing AXA IM, so joining BNP, I think, and that's what I think the colleagues coming from AXA IM are feeling, is that we are entering into a group that is very well equipped and used to accommodate very different culture.

We were part of an institutional investor, and there is no big changes. For the team and for us, what is important is I've commented on the investment processes, so we keep and maintain what are the factor of success, that there be an integrated platform, that operate alongside liquid investments, and within a group that is very well used to accommodate different cultures. I think it's the way we are looking at it. The enabler that the BNP Paribas Group is offering, notably on distribution and wealth management, is clearly generating a lot of excitement within the team, considering the growth prospect it offers.

Lars Machenil
Group CFO, BNP Paribas

What else can I say? Off to a great start. What else can I say? Listen, on the rebundling. We have at BNP Paribas, we are a large and diversified set of activities. We typically bundle them in order to not have 200 different entities. In the past, before we were able to integrate and strengthen ourselves with AXA IM, it was all bundled in something which was called WAM, so wealth and asset management. As I said earlier, given the transformation that we're seeing with asset management, we split it basically in two. Yeah, wealth and asset management became wealth and asset management. For the reason that I mentioned, we want to have the focus on the really transformed activity. We bundled it with wealth. There's nothing more to see other than that.

Pierre Chédeville
Sell-Side Equity Research Analyst, CIC Market Solutions

Thank you.

Operator

Next question is from Chris Hallam, Goldman Sachs.

Chris Hallam
Managing Director and Head of European Financials Research, Goldman Sachs

Yeah, good afternoon, everybody. Two quick questions. First on slide 17, how would you expect that pie chart to look in 2030? Obviously you've pointed to the EUR 85 billion of flows, healthy organic performance, but just how should that differ between the different product classes? How will the mix of products change within that EUR 300 billion as we move forward to 2030? And then second, of the EUR 350 billion of net flows out to 2030, can you help me understand a little bit how much client attrition is embedded in that? You know, sort of how much you expect to lose as a result of the combination of the two platforms? And also, when will clients actually physically realize that they're dealing with a combined entity? When do you start to kind of mesh the reporting and the client communication systems into one unique system? Thank you.

Isabelle Scemama
Head of Combined Alternatives Capabilities, BNP Paribas Asset Management

The pie chart will not be that different. I think we should expect to see a bigger infrastructure bucket as it is one of the fastest-growing asset class. What is also interesting to notice is that more and more the lines are blurring between infrastructure and real estate, data center, for example, that is a focus for us, can be classified as real estate or infrastructure, and you have a lot of other asset classes like that. The fastest-growing one will be infrastructure, but the balance will not change that much, considering the size of each of the bucket. Your second question?

Sandro Pierri
CEO, BNP Paribas Asset Management

The second question was more on how much of the EUR 350 we have assumed on the client.

Isabelle Scemama
Head of Combined Alternatives Capabilities, BNP Paribas Asset Management

Yeah.

Sandro Pierri
CEO, BNP Paribas Asset Management

You can take it, and then I'll complement that.

Isabelle Scemama
Head of Combined Alternatives Capabilities, BNP Paribas Asset Management

Yeah. The reality is that a lot of what we do is done through closed-ended vehicles that and we launch vintages, a whole series of those closed-ended funds. We don't expect, and we have not assumed that we will lose some clients. What we have just assumed is that within real estate, that is a combination of REIM and AXA IM real estate, we will stop some strategies, so we will not reinvest in some strategies in order to rationalize the product range. We expect that clients will re-up notably in the new strategies or in the flagship we continue to manage.

Sandro Pierri
CEO, BNP Paribas Asset Management

Yeah. To complement what Isabelle mentioned on alternative, I think broadly speaking, we have assumed some call it dyssynergies or attrition coming from you know the integration process and the overlaps. It's relatively marginal. I have to say that to date after I would say six months after almost nine months after closing and maybe 1.5 year almost two years after signing, we haven't really seen any material change in the redemption pattern. We're quite confident that I think what we are planning is actually good enough. The last question was a bit more qualitative, when we're gonna start interact with clients as one firm. Clearly, that's part of the integration process and of course is IT dependent.

As we said, there's an IT roadmap which I think will take us till the end of 2027, but I think we're gonna start seeing some, you know, moves in the direction of one single entity already starting from now and then accelerating progressively from the second half of this year. I think with that, if I can just wrap it up, we're getting to an end. I want to thank all of you for the active participation. Thank you for all the questions. Actually with the team, we have enjoyed spending time with you. We gave you enough fruitful thoughts on our exciting project.

I think that's basically the end of it, and thanks to all of my colleagues that have participated and have helped to prepare for this call. Thank you, and good evening to everyone.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the deep dive call dedicated to asset management. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

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