Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Carmila's 2024 results presentation. Together with Sébastien Vanhoove, Deputy CEO, and Pierre-Yves Thirion, CFO, we will present a strong set of results for the third year of our strategic plan, Building Sustainable Growth. This plan is structured around three pillars: first, transforming assets; second, optimizing capital; and finally, creating long-term value thanks to a series of growth and sustainability initiatives. Let me walk through the key takeaways. First, we successfully completed the Galimmo integration, the only sizeable consolidation in the retail real estate sector in recent years. Next, we delivered outstanding momentum in our leasing activity, with nearly 1,000 new leases signed, further demonstrating the appeal of our centers. Net rental income growth is strong, at 8.3%. I'm particularly satisfied to announce that our 2024 recurring earnings per share is higher than the guidance, at EUR 1.67, up 4.5%.
The portfolio valuation is dynamic, with a 1% increase on a like-for-like basis, reflecting a positive trend in the current market environment. Carmila has maintained one of the strongest balance sheets in the industry, with a net debt-to-EBITDA ratio at 7.4 times, and finally, our outlook for 2025: the EP's guidance stands at EUR 1.75, up 4.8%, and we will launch a new share buyback program of EUR 10 million. Moving to slide four, in 2024, we celebrated Carmila's 10th anniversary. Since its creation, Carmila has more than doubled its asset valuations, thanks in large part to our effective capital allocation strategy. Today, our portfolio includes 251 centers, providing Carmila with a significant strategic advantage. We are the natural partner for retailers looking to expand in France and Spain. Our centers have consistently maintained strong appeal, with financial occupancy rates exceeding 96% over the long term and increased retailer sales.
The macroeconomic environment is supportive for our business model, with inflation gradually returning to normalized levels. Interest rates are stabilizing, and property valuations are showing signs of steady recovery. Retail is experiencing positive momentum, driven by growing retail spending and the strength of the omnichannel model. For example, Black Friday, once purely an online event, has now become one of the top three days for footfall in shopping centers. Lastly, our business is boosted by the restriction on land artificialization. Moving to the portfolio of Carmila, three major advantages stand out. First, Carmila has a portfolio of transformed, hypermarket-anchored, leading shopping centers in mid-sized cities. Second, Carmila is developing exclusive synergy with Carrefour, our main shareholder. We partner on agile and mixed-use projects. Carrefour leadership and strong brand strengthen the competitiveness of our centers. We clearly believe in the power of Carrefour hypermarket.
Third, Carmila benefits from its position in Spain, a very dynamic market. On slide seven, a quick reminder of our strategy based on three pillars. First, transforming our assets. We are focused on pivoting the merchandising mix and executing agile restructuring projects, which have led to new record occupancy. Second, optimizing capital allocation through asset rotation and acquisition. And third, we have a long-term value creation strategy, including energy transition, opportunities for mixed-use development, and growth initiatives. On slide eight, our active leasing activity translates into a significant evolution of our merchandising mix since 2019. We've been successful in capturing and capitalizing on emerging consumer trends. Health, beauty, and sport have grown substantially. Food and restaurants now represent more than 13% of our rental income. Meanwhile, the share of clothing and accessories has decreased from 34% to 28% of rental income.
Moving to slide nine, in retail, the ability to attract and support market leaders is critical, and Carmila has consistently delivered on this front across a diverse range of sectors. In five-year time, leading brands in the most attractive sectors have significantly expanded their exposure in Carmila centers. For instance, in the beauty segment, Rituals, a major player, has opened 11 new stores. Adopt has shown remarkable growth, adding 34 stores. In health, our pharmacy network also continues to develop with 24 new pharmacies, and lastly, the discount segment has experienced particularly strong growth. Action has expanded with 13 new stores, while Normal, a recent entrant, has built a solid presence with 21 stores. On slide 10, capital allocation. This is core to our strategy: acquiring assets with value creation potential and divesting transformed assets.
Over the past two years, we unlocked EUR 300 million in capital through the disposal of mature assets at book value, successfully reinvested into Galimmo, at highly attractive terms. The acquisition yields over 9%, is immediately accretive, and increases both EPS and NAV by 5%. Galimmo adds 51 shopping centers to our portfolio, valued at EUR 677 million as of 2024. We are currently deploying our proven strategy and the Carrefour-Carmila ecosystem across these new locations. Let me now focus on integration progress and value creation opportunities. The integration is on track for full completion by 2025, with key milestones already achieved. We are also set to deliver EUR 5 million in cost synergies by year-end. In 2025, we are activating value creation levers, focusing on aligning the Galimmo portfolio with Carmila's high operational standard. We will raise financial occupancy and deploy agile restructuring projects.
Additionally, we will roll out Carmila growth drivers across the portfolio. This disciplined integration approach, combined with a clear roadmap, strengthens our confidence in delivering additional returns from this acquisition. Turning now to our first strategic pillar, long-term value creation on slide 13, our structured CSR approach gains strong momentum in 2024. We are efficiently executing our 2030 sustainability roadmap, including on climate action. Our centers also drive local dynamism, generating around 400 jobs each and hosting 40% local tenants, strengthening regional economies. As you know, I'm very committed to gender equality. Carmila achieved a gender equality score of 95 over 100, reflecting our CSR engagements. Slide 14, our clear pathway to net zero emissions. Starting from our 2019 baseline, we've already delivered a substantial 54% reduction in Scope 1 and Scope 2 emissions ahead of our roadmap.
Looking forward, our 2030 roadmap focuses on three levers: reducing energy consumption, sourcing green energy, and incorporating a limited 10% offset component. Our energy efficiency initiatives have received recognition within the 2024 GRESB Green Star ranking. Third, Carmila Retail Development continues to expand with 13 retail partnerships, generating EUR 1.8 million in recurring earnings. We now have mature assets that could be considered for divestment within the next 18 months. These initiatives showcase our capacity to create additional revenue streams beyond traditional rental income. To conclude on the progress made in the third year of our building sustainable growth, as you can see on the slide, we have met or exceeded our key targets across all dimensions. I will now leave the floor to Sébastien to deep dive the highlights of the year.
Thank you, Marie. Hello everyone. Here are the main takeaways of my presentation. First, leasing activity is very strong, demonstrating the high demand from retailers to develop in our centers. Second, we bring innovation and experience to attract clients.
And finally, we keep transforming our assets to adapt with the latest retail trends and to create value. I will now dive into our operational activity with some key figures and examples. The upcoming slide will illustrate how we are fulfilling our strategic ambition of transforming assets and driving long-term growth for our retailers. In 2024, tenant sales in Carmila centers increased by nearly 2%, and footfall was slightly positive. Spain demonstrated particularly dynamic performance with sales growth of more than 3%, benefiting from a positive tourism trend. Carmila tenants maintain an average occupancy cost ratio of 10.5%, stable since 2019, reflecting a sustainable level. Year after year, Carmila's business model has proven its resilience in changing environments. On slide 19, let me highlight our remarkable leasing activity. Nearly 1,000 leases have been signed with a reversion rate of plus 3% above indexation.
Our strong leasing momentum has pushed our financial occupancy rate to a record level of 96.7%. This performance demonstrates our ability to capture key retail trends and meet evolving consumer expectations. Let me illustrate on slide 20 how the most attractive local and global retailers are choosing Carmila as their preferred partner. We have secured several high-profile flagships opening across key segments. In fashion, Zara has chosen Toulouse-Labège for a major extension, while Kiabi and Lacoste will open significant stores in Montesson. In Spain, Mango selected As Cancelas for their concept store. The sports momentum continues with the openings of Decathlon in Saran and Intersport in Rouen. Leisure offerings expanded through innovative concepts like Speedpark, opening in Beauvais, Vitrolles, and Rennes-Saint-Grégoire. Lastly, 90 new brands joined our portfolio in 2024. All of them are in line with our mixed merchandising strategy. Now let's talk about specialty leasing, slide 21.
Specialty leasing brings essential complementarity to our centers, adding both dynamism and innovation. In 2024, this activity generated solid revenues of 18.2 million EUR, growing 7% year-on-year. This performance reflects our ability to deploy compelling retail concepts, leveraging our market expertise and operational know-how. We implement new retail experiences at the forefront of emerging trends. For instance, the Japan Geek Tour has attracted many new clients, and we have been the first to host the sale of mystery lost packages. Now, on slide 22, we also reinforce the retail experience by hosting powerful events that create emotional connections with our retail customers. Our events include celebrities and influencers, as well as partnerships with major entertainment brands like Netflix or Disney. Our collaboration with Carrefour enables unique opportunities, such as specific animations during the 2024 Olympics. All of these drive significant traffic improvements.
In addition, our digital marketing amplifies these experiences beyond physical attendance. After having explained how we have attracted new brands and supported their growth, let us now turn to long-term value creation through asset transformation. Each year, we have executed approximately 40 restructuring projects, investing around EUR 40 million with an average yield and cost of 10%. We focus on transforming existing spaces, such as developing medium-sized units, expanded pharmacies, and optimizing parking with food parks. I will illustrate this approach with two recent examples. In Malaga, we acquired the La Rosaleda center in 2022 and completed its restructuring, featuring a new Mango flagship store. The results are compelling. Financial occupancy has increased to 97%, while footfall grew by 10%. In Vitrolles, our ongoing restructuring includes a pharmacy extension, a new food park and leisure area, photovoltaic installations, and a full refurbishment. On slide 24, the development landscape has changed radically.
For example, the French law on Net Zero Artificialization creates core city value for existing retail locations. Continued urbanization transforms our catchment areas into increasingly dense urban zones. This unlocks new perspectives and presents two key opportunities. First, on major retail projects, we anticipate a disciplined deployment starting in 2026, supported by an EUR 15 million annual capex allocation. These projects are attractive with target yields exceeding asset cap rates by 150 basis points. Second, on mixed-use developments, opportunities are expanding rapidly with transformation projects in Nantes and Sartrouville, where we hold small minority stakes. Additionally, 13 sites are included in the Carrefour-Nexity partnership, with no balance sheet exposure for Carmila. The progress is remarkable, from zero mixed-use projects in 2019 to 15 identified today. The takeaway is that we unlocked additional potential from our assets.
Let me now hand over to Pierre-Yves, who will show how our strategic initiatives have translated into increased financial performance.
Thank you, Sébastien. Hello everyone. It's great to see you all again. Before diving into details, let me highlight that 2024 has been a remarkable year with strong performance across key metrics, either on operating performance or financial results. We are now on slide 26. Our recurring EPS reached EUR 1.67 with a solid 4.5% growth. Net rental income showed strong momentum, increasing by 8.3% to EUR 371 million. Our portfolio is valued at EUR 6.7 billion, including Galimmo assets, plus 13% versus last year and plus 0.9% like-for-like. EPRA LTV per share increased by a significant 8.1%. We have maintained a controlled leverage with EPRA LTV, including rights at 38.9%. These results outperform the 24 financial guidance, setting new highs across Carmila key metrics.
Let me now detail the components of our net rental income growth, which reached EUR 371 million. This 8.3% increase breaks down into two main drivers. We achieved 4.2% organic growth through strong operational performance and agile asset management, of which 3.4% comes from indexation. The Galimmo integration added 4.1% with only six months of contribution in the second half of 2024. Moving to our operational performance, the next slide shows our strong track record. First, we have achieved a record rent collection rate of 97%, up 50 basis points from last year. Second, we have delivered our strongest reversion rate since 2019 at plus 3%. These good figures clearly demonstrate the appeal of our centers. Then the slide 29 breaks down the P&L from NRI to recurring earnings. Year after year, we have succeeded in keeping our cost base stable, a demonstration of the effectiveness of our incubator strategy.
The increase of our financial expenses was mainly due to the Galimmo acquisition. Nevertheless, expenses are well controlled and reflect the success of our proactive management. We are committed to position Carmila within a trajectory of sustained cash flow growth. 2024 stands as a demonstration of this ambition, with a +3.8% in recurring earnings. On slide 30, the recurring earnings per share. At 1.67 EUR per share, recurring EPS is outperforming the guidance, up 4.5%, higher than the increase in recurring earnings thanks to share buybacks. On top of +3% in organic growth, Galimmo contribution adds 1.5%. This increase reaffirms the relevance of building sustainable growth strategy and demonstrates Carmila's ability to generate cash flows in a predictable and sustainable manner. Moving on the portfolio valuation on slide 31.
At the end of 2024, including the Galimmo assets, our valuation stands at EUR 6.7 billion, representing an increase of 13%. On a like-for-like basis, the valuation shows an increase of 0.9%. On slide 32, there is the cap rate evolution and the valuation assumptions. The net initial yield comes at 6.57%, up 15 basis points year-on-year, but stable on a semester comparison. Since 2017, the cap rate has risen by 120 basis points. However, the impact of higher discount rates has been fully offset by the organic growth of our rental base. Finally, our valuation assumptions are reasonable. The rental growth, including indexation, is at 1.8% in the models. We believe that we can exceed this level and that it will support valuation in the coming semesters.
Turning to net asset value, slide 33, the most significant and notable impacts come from the Galimmo acquisition, including the badwill effects and associated deferred taxes. This led to an EPRA LTV up 8.1%, reaching EUR 26.12 per share. Now, on leverage metrics, slide 34, Carmila has among the best-in-class balance sheets, even including the impact of the Galimmo acquisition. With an EPRA LTV of 38.9% and an average net debt over EBITDA of 7.4 times, we have a comfortable room to maneuver inside our triple B rating. A milestone has been achieved with the successful issuance of our first green bond in September, EUR 300 million, with a maturity just over seven years, an annual coupon of 3.875%, and nearly seven times oversubscribed. This brings us to slide 35, where we can see how Carmila's proactive debt management has secured refinancing needs through to 2027.
Carmila successfully carried out bond buybacks that have extended the maturity of its debt, standing at approximately four and a half years. The debt is fully hedged in 2025 and 2026, and the average cost at the end of 2024 is 3%. This is in line with our forecast and will be stable until 2026 included. Let me highlight our key investment policies, slide 36. We renew our annual green CapEx commitment at EUR 10 million per year, including solar energy projects. We are increasing by EUR 10 million our agile restructuring program to reach EUR 50 million per year to account for the Galimmo perimeter. Major projects will start from 2026 with EUR 50 million annual CapEx funded through asset rotation. For next year, we plan an average annual CapEx of EUR 10 million with deployments set to accelerate in 2025.
To conclude, 2024 has been one of the strongest years for Carmila in terms of financial performance. I will now hand over to Marie, who will share the outlook with you.
Thank you, Pierre-Yves. Driven by these robust results, we can propose a dividend of 1.25 EUR per share for the year 2024, ensuring a payout ratio of 75%. The growth of +4.2% and the high dividend yield reinforce the attractiveness of Carmila shares. To conclude, let's talk about our 2025 guidance. We expect a 2025 recurring EPS at 1.75 EUR, up 4.8%, and we will launch a new share buyback program of 10 million EUR. Thank you for your attention, and let's start the Q&A session.
Hello, Benoît Faure-Jarrosson, Invest Securities. You told us that the reversion potential in 2024 was +3%. The turnover of the shops +1.8% and the rents quite higher?
Is there a risk that now the rents have an average negative reversionary potential on your assets?
No, year after year, we demonstrate our capacity to have a positive reversion. The average rent of Carmila is affordable at the right level. You can see it on the OCR side. So we are confident on our capacity to maintain a positive reversion in the coming year.
Hello, Stephanie Dossmann from Jefferies. You touched upon your asset rotation strategy, and I saw that like-for-like value in Italy declined by 1.8%. So I was wondering about your strategy on this portfolio. Do you consider it core or non-core, or do you contemplate a disposal at some point? And more generally speaking, what asset growth asset value would you consider as non-core currently?
So specifically on Italy, the Italian business has a strong operating performance, a high collection rate, high occupancy.
Appraisal values are relatively stable. So we are happy with the performance in Italy. It's a small business with only eight centers, but we have no plan to make a strategy change in Italy. And the second part of your question?
It was about core assets, core versus non-core. So regarding our portfolio, they are made of leading shopping centers, and we consider a core asset by its leadership more by the size. We have approximately 90% of leading assets around our geography. We could look at disposals and continue with our plan. That's what we have done in the previous 24 months, previous 36 months. We have disposed of 14 assets where we have extracted the value, and that's what we will continue to do, is to dispose of assets, to recycle capital, and to invest in projects which create value for Carmila once we have transformed the assets.
Good morning, Florent Laroche-Joubert from Oddo BHF. I would have three questions. My first question will be on the guidance. Would it be possible maybe to be most precise on the main assumptions that you have taken into account in this guidance and in which way, for example, it could be conservative, for example, with a specialty revenue for which we have a like-for-like growth of 7% in 2024? Is it sustainable? So this will be my first question. My second question will be on the five major projects. So we see now that you expect to start the works from 2026. How confident or comfortable are you now to really start these works from 2026? And my third question would be on the opportunities that you could look at. Could you maybe give us maybe more information on the type or size of opportunities that you can look at? Thanks.
Thank you, Florent. So on the guidance, I understand that you would prefer more, but it's already plus 4.8%. So it's already, I think, a big growth from this year. Clearly, it is supported by positive indexation. In 2025, it will be a bit lower than in 2024, but still significant. Still a strong operating performance, cost discipline, and the impact of the Galimmo contribution, as we explained in the presentation. We are confident in our ability to raise the standards of Galimmo, especially concerning the occupancy ratio. So we are confident on this guidance of EUR 1.75 per share in 2025. On the major projects, so five major projects: Orléans, Antibes, Montesson, Labège, and Terrassa in Spain. So we hope to start the construction works by 2026. As you know, we are still depending on local authorization.
I can't swear that it will begin by 2026, but we are very confident. To give you some colors on the different projects, the most developed is Orléans. It's a big renovation project. We have a shopping center which is just inside the city on top of the station, and we are working alongside with local authorities, and we hope to get the building authorization by this year and to start the construction by 2026. On the Antibes project, initially, we were going to do 20,000 sq m of retail. We are going to do about a third of that and perhaps another one in Montesson because each year we are talking about the Montesson project. I think the Montesson demonstrates the difficulty of this project because needs are changing and local authorities now want mixed-use projects.
So we are currently still working with local officials to try to pivot from retail to more residential in Montesson. And opportunities, as we mentioned, clearly, Carmila has a strong balance sheet, a clear strategy. I mean, a portfolio with a lot of advantage, so we are ready to size opportunities. Opportunities would be we saw the impact of the asset rotation program, so we will continue to divest mature assets in order to invest in assets where we can create value. So we will look at different possibilities. I think we have questions online.
Yes, for audio questions, ladies and gentlemen, just as a reminder, please press star one on your keypad. Our very first question, online question, is coming from Valérie Jacob of Bernstein. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Hello, hi, good morning. I've got three questions.
The first one is I wanted to see if you could be a bit more specific about the potential that you see in the Galimmo portfolio. I mean, you mentioned occupancy, but is there anything you can do in particular? Are you looking, for example, to sell some non-core assets? So I was wondering if you could give us more detail. My second question is about footfall. You give the data for the top 50 centers. I was wondering if you could give the data for the entire portfolio. And my last question is about the organic growth of your portfolio. I think your number includes capex, and I was wondering if you could give the number excluding capex. Thank you.
So on Galimmo, we will roll out the strategy of Carmila with several key ideas. First, the mixed merchandising.
As you know, we are very good at Carmila in our leasing policy, so we will develop this policy into Galimmo to try to increase the occupancy ratio. Second part of our strategy, agile projects. As Pierre-Yves mentioned, we will raise our CapEx envelope of agile projects from EUR 40 million per year to EUR 50 million per year to take into account the Galimmo acquisition. By agile project, we mean projects on the parking, extension of some pharmacies, for example. We have several projects already set in the Galimmo portfolio. And on your question of will we sell some Galimmo assets, I think it's a bit early to say something. The Galimmo portfolio will be now part of the Carmila portfolio, so we will contemplate the possibility to divest as we do on the Carmila portfolio.
On your second question about footfall, it's on the top 50 assets in France.
The top 50 represent 85% of the value, so we consider this is a good portfolio to see the footfall. Overall, it's more or less the same when we look at the global portfolio. On organic growth, you talked about organic growth of the valuation. It's plus 0.9%, which is good news. It's positive, and in particular, the good news comes from the second semester with the stabilization of the yields at 6.57%. It was stable when we compared it from December to June. Of course, it's a photo. It compares the valuation at the end of December 2024 versus the end of December 2023. It does not integrate the CapEx that have been invested. If you want to have an idea of the same number with the CapEx, you can see in the P&L the line change in fair value adjustment.
It's -EUR 35 million, so it's a minus epsilon when we reincorporate the CapEx. Yes.
Thank you.
Thank you, ma'am. Our next question will be coming from Mr. Benjamin Legrand of Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead.
Good morning. For me, a few questions just on the growth initiatives. Where do you see the impact for 2025 and 2026? So the towers and the two other growth initiatives you have. And I'm just wondering about the Galimmo portfolio. In terms of CapEx, you increased the total CapEx from 40 to 50, but on average per asset, is it more or less than the rest of the portfolio? Because if I do the calculation for me, it's more or less the same. So it means that the portfolio in Galimmo does not require additional CapEx on a per asset basis compared to the rest of the portfolio. Is that correct?
Maybe a last question is on your overhead costs, which are increasing a lot, and this is, I guess, due to Galimmo acquisition. Is that something you see going down in 2025 thanks to your synergies, or is there any additional synergies we should consider? Thank you.
Okay. On the growth initiative, it's EUR 12 million of recurring earnings in 2024. We don't guide on 2025 for this specific growth initiative. It's inside the guidance, but we are very confident on our ability to continue to grow. On the omnichannel incubator, it's already EUR 7.5 million per year. Next year has a big pipeline, and clearly ramp up will accelerate it this year. On Carmila retail development, as I mentioned, we are now contemplating possible disbursements for this year. On the CapEx, as you have seen, we have added EUR 10 million.
The idea is to work on the Galimmo portfolio. As you have seen, the financial occupancy rate is at 92%. We believe that we can increase that level, and that's what we are going to do in the coming semesters. 10 million EUR, it's approximately an increase of a bit more than 20% of the envelope of CapEx on agile restructuring. Galimmo is just 10%, so there is a specific focus and an acceleration. And then the average size per project, yes, we have bigger projects, smaller projects, so 1 million EUR per project is the good size on the Galimmo perimeter and on the Carmila perimeter. Your last question was about overhead costs. So overhead costs are stable on a like-for-like perspective. There is an increase due to Galimmo, but it was the first semester of contribution of Galimmo, and so far, we have not implemented the synergies.
The synergies will start with their full effect from 2025. So, of course, we will control those overhead costs to deliver good margins. But overall, the message is, if we compare in 24 versus 2019, we have a globally stable overhead cost base, and this is due to the incubator, and we will continue with that strategy.
Thank you. Those are your questions, Mr. Legrand. We have no further audio questions at this time. Perhaps we can now move to questions submitted over the web. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Thank you.
So we have questions from the webcast. First question, do you plan specialty leasing to improve Galimmo gallery's mix?
So I think we already answered part of this question. To give you an example, we have now a dedicated leasing team which is based in Nancy, so very close to the major Galimmo sites, and they are now beginning to sign new leases for this portfolio. So it is clearly one of the focuses of Carmila this year.
And another question, how would you explain good performance in this complicated economic environment?
I think it's several things. We have the right portfolio. I mean, a portfolio of Carrefour hypermarket anchored centers, leader in the catchment area, with the good merchandising mix, and we are very resilient because we are very French people, Spanish people, they love to go in shopping centers and in Carmila shopping centers.
The right portfolio, we have, I think, the right strategy, the pivot of the mixed merchandising, the capacity to conduct agile projects with our partnership with Carrefour, growth initiative, and the asset rotation program. We are confident on our capacity to continue to do that this year. I mean, we have also, when you look at the current environment, I think there are positive things on the retail real estate, inflation, interest rates, yield again, and there is also a positive retail momentum and perspective are positive for 2025 in Spain, but even in France, even if probably growth will be low, but now we have a budget, and so we are confident on our capacity to deliver growth in 2025.
There is a question about comparison of H2 versus H1 figures. The answer is that there is seasonality in the overhead cost.
We usually have more costs in the second part of the year because of marketing campaigns linked to the strong events of the second commercial events linked to the second part of the year. So we don't compare to analyze the performance, the H1 and the H2 figures, but we look at it overall on the global year. Thank you. A question about Galimmo CapEx. I think we have answered to that. Yes, we want to increase the occupancy rates, and that's why we have decided to implement an additional EUR 10 million on our agile restructuring program. And last one, a technical question about invoicing and turnover rents. So in Carmila, most of our contracts are linked to fixed rents. We have, in some cases, a turnover rent which is activated depending on a target of sales for the retailers. Overall, it's less than 1.5% of the rents. Stephanie.
Maybe a follow-up on your ability to size opportunities in the market. Would you strengthen your footprint rather in France or in Spain? And what would be your target in terms of loan-to-value short term if, let's say, big opportunities arise? Clearly, we look at opportunities in France and Spain. We think both countries are interesting for us. And concerning loan-to-value, we always say that 40% is a good target for us. So we will try to stick on that. If there is a marvelous opportunity, we could look at a bit more, but I think 40% is the right objective for us. Okay. Thank you, everyone, for your time, and have a nice day.