Carmila S.A. (EPA:CARM)
France flag France · Delayed Price · Currency is EUR
16.28
-0.32 (-1.93%)
May 13, 2026, 5:35 PM CET
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Earnings Call: H2 2025

Feb 19, 2026

Marie Cheval
CEO, Carmila

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Carmila's 2025 results presentation. This has been another year of profitable growth, reflecting the strength of our strategy and high-quality execution. Let's begin with the key highlights of the year. We will then explore the drivers behind it, revenue growth, powered by three growth engines, and disciplined cost management, which convert growth into earnings. Finally, the outlook for 2026. First, the key takeaways from 2025, a year of profitable growth. We had strong momentum across all three growth engines. First, organic growth reached 3.5%, once again, outperforming indexation, thanks to strong retailer demand, dynamic leasing activity, and value-creative agile projects. Second, investment growth, which added over 5% to net rental income, thanks to the full year impact of the Galimmo acquisition.

Third, innovation growth, which is now firmly established as a third growth pillar, generating EUR 27 million of EBITDA. This strong top-line momentum, combined with cost discipline, translated into higher profitability. The EBITDA margin rose to 79.3%, and we grew earnings by 9%, taking EPS to EUR 1.81. The balance sheet is strong, striking the right balance between efficiency and opportunity, with an LTV of 38.8%. And we are proud to continue to return capital to shareholders. We have increased the dividend by 9%, and today, we are announcing a new EUR 10 million share buyback. Looking ahead, we expect another year of profitable growth in 2026. The guidance for next year is EUR 1.84, an increase of 2%. Slide 5 shows the positive momentum across the board.

This is clearly reflected in the key operational indicators: nearly 900 leases signed, high occupancy at 96.5%, and positive reversion of 3.8%, well above indexation. This directly translated into revenue growth, with net rental income up 8.8% to EUR 403 million. This is also reflected in the valuation of our portfolio, which rose by 1.3% to EUR 6.7 billion. Our 250 shopping centers welcomed 620 million visitors last year, showing that they are essential, relevant, and close to the people they serve. As I said, the strong performance in 2025 was driven by sustained momentum across our three growth engines. Let me pause here and explain how we think about growth at Carmila. First, organic growth. This is the core of our business.

It is driven by our leasing activity, indexation, tenant mix upgrades, and improvements we make to assets, what we call agile projects. Second, investment growth. It reflects our active portfolio management. It includes acquisitions, disposals, and major projects, allowing us to upgrade our portfolio and deploy capital in the most value creative opportunities. Third, innovation. We've built recurring income streams that go beyond traditional rents, such as specialty leasing, retail media, marketing services, Next Tower, and our brands incubator. These activities leverage our footprint, data, and footfall to create additional sources of value. Together, these three engines generate sustainable growth and outperformance. Growth is only the third step. Disciplined cost management permit us to convert growth into earnings, as shown on slide 7. In 2025, we delivered strong growth while keeping operating costs controlled, demonstrating our ability to scale without increasing our cost base.

Notably, the integration of Galimmo generated EUR 5 million of cost synergies. Overall, our EBITDA margin has been improved, and financing costs remain low and stable at 3%. As a result, EPS increased by 9% to EUR 1.81, exceeding our initial guidance. Indeed, our balance sheet is a key strength. With an LTV of 38.8%, we maintain an optimal balance between efficiency and opportunity. We are committed to return capital to shareholders. Therefore, we have increased the dividend by 9% to EUR 1.36 and bought back EUR 30 million of shares last year. Now turning to slide 9. We confirm our net buyer strategy, designed to deliver both immediate accretion and long-term growth. We target EUR 100 million of acquisition per year, focusing on opportunities that offer 100 basis points of value creation above market cap rates.

This is balanced by EUR 50 million in annual disposal as part of our active portfolio rotation. 25, once again, illustrates the effectiveness of this approach. We first, the successful integration of Galimmo, and second, EUR 69 million in disposals completed at book value with a net initial yield of 6.6%. The objective remains to be a net buyer. Market valuation are attractive, and the Carmila platform is built to integrate asset quickly and create value efficiently. Looking now ahead to 2026, we expect growth momentum to continue, with EPS rising 2% to EUR 1.84. This will be led by organic growth, despite negative indexation in France, and supported by cost control. Now, let me set the economic context and explain why Carmila is well positioned to capture retail growth.

Looking ahead on slide 12, the outlook for retail property and for our portfolio is positive. The microenvironment is supportive, with easing inflation and rising real wages driving higher consumer spending. At the same time, e-commerce growth is slowing as online penetration matures. Omnichannel is the winning model as brands increasingly integrate in-store strategies and online strategies. Now, let me explain what makes Carmila's model distinctive and why it drive consistent performance. Carmila shopping centers are local life hubs. First, they are essentials in people's everyday life, as they are Carrefour hypermarket anchored, meet daily needs, and generate frequent recurring visits. Second, they are relevant to people. We have integrated healthcare services, dining, sports, and leisure, making them places people rely on to meet, spend time, and experience daily life. Our centers attract more than 600 million visitors per year, with footfall steadily increasing.

Third, they are close to people, strategically located at the heart of local life. One in three people in France and Spain lives within 20 minutes of a Carmila center, and this is a powerful combination, and brands recognize it, as reflected in the strong leasing activity and rental growth across the portfolio. And we don't just capture retail growth, we exceed it. As you can see on the slide 14, we have outperformed indexation every single year. In 2025, organic NRI growth exceeded indexation by by one hundred and ten basis points. This consistent outperformance is structural, driven by our life hub positioning and the scale of our footprint, which creates strong network effects. This is how our model is built to deliver upside across the cycle, year after year. I will now hand over the floor to Sébastien, Carmila's Deputy CEO.

Sébastien Vanhoove
Deputy CEO, Carmila

Thank you, Marie. Hello, everyone. Let's now take a closer look at our performance, starting with our three growth engines, all showing strong momentum. First, organic growth. We are a strategic partner for brands, signing almost 900 leases. This reflects the arrival of new brands, such as Aroma-Zone and Legami, and the continued expansion of existing tenants across our network, supported by very strong retention levels. This strong demand translated into excellent operating metrics, with reversion of +3.8%, an infill rate of 10.9%, and occupancy rate at 96.5%. Our centers are essentially full, and what is striking is that this demand is not just broad, it's deepening. Let me show you what I mean. The chart on slide 17 shows our network effect in motion.

More and more retailers, both existing tenants and new brands, are choosing to expand across multiple Carmila centers rather than opening a single location. This network effect is a key driver of our growth. Brands such as Rituals or JACK & JONES use Carmila as a platform to accelerate their European expansion, leveraging our dense footprint to scale faster. What we are seeing is a powerful virtual circle. Next slide shows strong retail demand on one side and strong customer engagement on the other. This is a tangible result of our model because our centers are true partners in people's daily lives... These structural strengths continue to translate into rising footfall, up 1%, and improving retailer sales, particularly in Spain, where it increased by 5%. We now have 250 shopping centers across three countries, as shown on slide 19.

France, our most mature market, is resilient with 167 centers delivering solid NRI growth. Spain is a high-growth market, with 75 centers benefiting from strong indexation and leasing momentum, driving our strongest NRI growth. In Italy, we now have a new opportunity alongside a new partner, complementing our long-standing and successful partnership with Carrefour. Together, this diversified footprint supports sustainable growth across cycles. Next slide showcase some of our recent agile projects, a key driver of our organic growth and value creation. They reflect our strategy to enhance performance by making our existing assets perform better. Each year, we deliver around 50 agile projects, generating on average yield on cost of 10%. So this strategy directly improve the customer experience while delivering attractive return for us. Let's take a closer look at Vitrolles in Marseille, one of Carmila's flagship in France.

Over the last two years, we transformed the site. Beyond the full renovation, we expanded the pharmacy and repurposed two units to welcome Normal in 2024. Last year, we further boosted its appeal by adding a new food park in the car park area. And looking ahead to 2027, we will open a brand-new leisure unit right next to it. The results are clear. Asset value is already up 5% year-on-year, and quarterly footfall has surged by 15% since the food park delivery. This is a perfect example of Carmila's asset management expertise, translating directly into immediate rental uplift and accretive return on investment. Now, let's turn to our second growth engine, investment growth, and specifically, the incremental value creation within the Galimmo portfolio. Galimmo is a perfect example to illustrate Carmila's capital allocation strategy.

This acquisition was very accretive from year one, delivering a return of over 40%. Furthermore, there is embedded growth still to come. First, occupancy. We have successfully re-energized the portfolio, moving from 93% at acquisition to 94% today. Second, on the collection rate, our management processes are delivering immediate results. We have already exceeded our target, hitting over 98%, which is brings Galimmo with our standards. While Galimmo drive investment growth in 2025, we are also laying the groundwork for Carmila's long-term evolution through mixed use and major projects. From 2027, we plan to deploy EUR 50 million a year in CapEx on major projects, aiming for a yield on cost of at least 150 basis points above asset cap rate. In mixed use, we now have 15 projects underway compared to nine in 2019.

We are demonstrating a clear commitment to transforming our centers into true living areas, notably our strategic partnership with Carrefour. This momentum is fueled by two powerful tailwinds: regulatory change, creating land scarcity, and increasing urbanization. Together, they are crystallizing the value of our portfolio, ensuring dominant positioning for the long term. Now, turning to our third growth engine. Innovation is now firmly established as our third growth pillar, contributing EUR 27 million of EBITDA in 2025. This is now a significant contribution within Carmila's earnings, delivering double-digit growth in 2025. Here, we are building recurring income streams with high margins and low capital intensity. They complement our core retail business and further improve the value of our assets. On slide 25, I would like to dive into two initiatives where we have been very innovative. First, specialty leasing.

We have co-developed a tech platform where retailers can instantly book short-term retail location within Carmila centers and with transparent pricing and maximum flexibility. They can gain fast, low-risk access to our locations. The platform is called Clickstand, and you can think of it as the Airbnb of retail. For Carmila, it's a digital leap that monetizes footfall and increases asset productivity. We have already deployed this solution across half of our portfolio. Now, on retail media, we are at the cutting edge on this new trend in order to create the most powerful network in France and Spain. This alliance is built on a clear sharing of expertise.

JCDecaux, the world leader, bring its technological expertise, Unlimitail acts as a media agency to manage the transactional data provided by Carrefour, and Carmila provides a premium physical setting, offering a complete and measurable customer journey from the parking lot to the hypermarket shelf. This is a game changer, as advertisers will be able to link massive physical footfall with real purchase data. By summer 2026, we will have deployed the ecosystem.... It is set to generate, to generate from 1%-2% of Carmila's EBITDA growth starting in 2026, with very limited contribution of CapEx, which is below EUR 8 million. We are not leasing a wall or a screen, we are selling a qualified, measurable audience at the exact moment of the purchase decision. I will now hand over the floor to Pierre-Yves, Carmila's CFO.

Pierre-Yves Thirion
CFO, Carmila

Hello, everyone. Marie and Sebastian just highlighted our strong revenue growth. I will now show you how we successfully translate this growth into earnings through disciplined cost management and operational excellence. Now on slide 27, growing net rental income with stable operating costs. This is exactly what our model delivers. As shown on the left, revenues have grown steadily, driven by the combination of organic growth, investments, and innovation growth, reaching over EUR 403 million in 2025, representing 9% growth. What makes this performance particularly strong is that it was achieved with stable operating costs. As shown on the right, overheads as a percentage of NRI have declined to 15.3% in 2025. This operating leverage is a core strength of our model, allowing us to convert revenue growth into higher earnings and sustainable value creation. We control energy costs to support growth.

We are very proud to be on track to achieve net zero emissions by 2030. An ESG commitment that makes both environmental and economic sense. By reducing energy consumption, we structurally lower operating costs. This creates tangible savings today, protects our business from future energy price volatility, and makes our centers more attractive and cost-efficient for our tenants. In short, decarbonization is an investment that strengthens resilience and long-term profitability. To turn our performance into long-term shareholder value, we know it must be supported by the right financial structure. We balance efficiency and opportunity. As you can see, our average cost of debt stands at 3%. Thanks to our hedging strategy, this cost is expected to remain stable through 2026. In terms of liquidity, our structure is built for the long term. We have a well-spread maturity profile with no refinancing needs before 2027.

In a market where many players are facing higher refinancing hurdles, this stability is a massive competitive advantage. It provides Carmila with the visibility and the financial firepower needed to continue allocating capital toward growth, asset optimization, and sustainable value creation. Now on slide 30, our disciplined cost management has translated into margin expansion and earnings growth. Our EBITDA margin has increased steadily over the years and now stands at 79.3%, benefiting from efficiency gains, including the rollout of AI-driven automation across our operating ecosystem. This margin expansion has naturally fed into earning growth. Strong top-line growth, combined with rigorous cost control, allow us to convert growth into earnings. This is the essence of our model. Our operating model also reinforces the fundamental value of our underlying assets. On slide 32, you can see that our portfolio valuation is rising.

In 25, it increased by 1.3% on a like-for-like basis, reflecting the strengths and appeal of our assets. Valuation increased in France and more strongly in Spain. We think this is a part of a broader market trend. High-quality retail assets with strong fundamentals are regaining value. Our portfolio valuation increased, thanks to several structural drivers. Rental growth, powered by our strong leasing activity. Asset quality, with 100% of our assets now BREEAM certified. Scarcity value, as regulatory changes and limited new supply reinforce the value of our existing assets. A supportive transaction market, validating our pricing through renewed investor interests... and finally, lower discount rates, reflecting our improved risk profile and strong cash flow visibility. Together, these factors confirm that Carmila portfolio is ideally positioned to capture value in the retail real estate markets.

Portfolio valuations are clearly recovering, yet the market still offers an attractive entry point. As shown on the left, net initial yields have just started to compress. It reflects improving investor confidence and the stronger fundamental I've just described. At the same time, rents continue to rise, supported by our strong leasing momentum. This combination proves that our valuations are driven by real operational performance and not just market sentiment. This gives us a huge confidence in the upside potential of our assets. It also validates our strategy to continue acquiring high-quality properties in a disciplined and accretive way. Here is a snapshot of our balance sheet. Our financial structure remains very solid, reflecting the right balance between efficiency and opportunity. As of end of 2025, net debt stood at 7.3x EBITDA and LTV at a comfortable 38.8%.

Our financial profile was further strengthened by Fitch's new rating with a BBB+ on senior unsecured debts, confirming our attractive access to funding. Our financial strategy aims to strike the right balance between a low cost of capital and the capacity to invest in growth. We benefit from low-cost funding through disciplined capital recycling, with disposals at 6.6% yield and a strong access to the bond markets, illustrated by our 3.75% bond issuance, 8x oversubscribed. This enables us to invest at attractive returns through accretive acquisitions, major projects and share buybacks, while maintaining a disciplined financial profile with an LTV around 40%. Our balance sheet is a strategic tool to accelerate growth and maximize value creation. This financial discipline and our investment capacity translate directly into value creation for our shareholders.

As you can see, our NTA increased by 1.5% year-on-year to reach 26.52 EUR per share. Now, on slide 37, let me explain the drivers behind our 2026 guidance of +2% EPS growth. Organic growth is expected to be solid, with NRI growing around 100 basis points above indexation, supported by strong leasing momentum and positive reversion. Innovation contribution in earnings should deliver high single-digit growth as specialty leasing, retail media, and services continue to scale. Investments will have a temporary negative impact of -1% from 2025 disposals, which will mechanically weigh on NRI in 2026. Taking all these factors together, we expect EPS growth of 2% in 2026, which corresponds to a 3% like-for-like. Importantly, this guidance exclude any potential upside from acquisition. We want to remain net buyers.

We see significant opportunities in the current markets, where asset valuations are attractive and our platform benefits from strong networks and scale effects, enabling us to integrate assets rapidly and unlock value efficiency. I will now let Marie conclude this presentation before entering the Q&A session.

Marie Cheval
CEO, Carmila

Thank you, Pierre-Yves. Some final comments on shareholder returns and the outlook for 2026. We are deeply committed to delivering attractive and sustainable returns to shareholders. To illustrate this, our dividend increased by 9% in 2025 and has grown steadily every year since 2021. We continued our share buyback program with EUR 30 million executed in 2025, and we are launching a new EUR 10 million program today. At the same time, we reinforced intrinsic value with NTA per share up 1.5% in 2025 and a 3.5% CAGR this decade. In other words, we combine immediate shareholder returns with long-term creation value. To conclude, let me repeat our expectations for 2026. We expect more of the same as the positive fundamentals that drove our performance in 2025 remain firmly in place....

Positive growth momentum will continue, and is expected to translate into EPS growth of 2% in 2026, reaching EUR 1.84, with more potential upside from acquisition, as Pierre-Yves mentioned. Before moving on to the Q&A, I would like to thank all Carmila teams for their outstanding contribution to this 2025 performance, and for the growth momentum we are building for the years ahead.

Operator

If you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial pound key six. The next question comes from Florent Laroche-Joubert from Oddo BHF. Please go ahead.

Florent Laroche-Joubert
Equity Research Analyst in Real Estate, Oddo BHF

Good morning, Marie. Good morning, Sebastian. Good morning, Pierre. Thank you very much for this presentation. I would have maybe two or three questions, if I may. Maybe I can ask all my questions, and you can answer. Maybe first question on your acquisition pipeline. How confident are you to reach this objective, and how the competition is for you on this M&A market? Then, maybe, question that, second question, which is linked, on the guidance. We understand that your future acquisitions are excluded of your guidance, meaning that if you do some acquisition and maybe EUR 100 million, we have to take this into account, maybe in, in for your recurring EPS for 2026.

My third question would be on revenue from innovation initiative. So, could you give us maybe more color on any room for more growth on that? Thank you very much.

Marie Cheval
CEO, Carmila

Okay, thank you very much, Florent, for your questions. On acquisition, clearly, we are net buyer. I think we have a strong track record on the asset rotation. We do see good opportunities in the market. We like the price of these assets, and we think that we can add a lot of value to the assets with our both cost efficiency and leasing, and to use our platform and network effect. We currently are examining some opportunities. We will buy grocery-anchored centers in our core markets. Of course, it's always difficult to be precise on amounts and timing of this transaction, but we are confident to have this acquisition. Our objective is EUR 100 million of acquisitions this year, and we will update you as soon as we can.

Pierre-Yves Thirion
CFO, Carmila

On the guidance, as you have understood, our current guidance is made of organic growth, and the drivers are 100 basis points of value creation of NRI above indexation. So this is what we know how to do at Carmila. We do it years after year, and we will continue to do it in 2026 and after, 100 basis points above indexation. Then, EBITDA margin improvements. We have worked a lot this year in EBITDA margin improvement, and we believe that there is more to come in the coming years. So the current guidance of +2% is made of 3% impact on like-for-like, as there were disposal last year of for 1% of the portfolio. So you are right.

We are confident about making acquisitions, and it will drive higher earnings in 2026. So depending on when we do those acquisitions, their contribution will be higher in 2026. So yes, you can plug some acquisitions in your model.

Marie Cheval
CEO, Carmila

On innovation, clearly, innovation is now firmly established as a third pillar of growth for Carmila. With these activities, we go beyond the traditional activity of Carmila, I mean, rents, and we try to monetize our footfall, our data, our network, and our size. And those activities clearly are characterized by high margins and low capital intensity. So, Sebastian mentioned specialty leasing and our innovation, Clickstand. Retail media for us is really a growth driver. Thanks to our partnership with Carrefour and Unlimitail and JCDecaux, I think we really go beyond the simple fact to sell screen. What we sell is really a capacity for retailers to reach consumer in all their customer journey.

So it's very important for us, and it will, it will contribute to 1%-2% to the growth of EBITDA in the coming, in the coming year. And we will be one of the major player of retail media in France, in shopping centers.

... Other two other comment on innovation, Next Tower. You know that because we launched that in the former strategic plan. Next Tower is developing, clearly, it has generated EUR 3.5 million of earnings in 2025, thanks to the partnership we have with Carrefour. And another innovation is, you know, Carmila Retail Development, the concept incubator. We have 7 minority stakes in promising retailers. And the goal for this year is to try to sell Cigusto, which is a major player in e-cigarettes, and right now, it now has more than 200 stores.

So this is a few examples of innovation, which is at the core now of the Carmila strategy, and we try to find new ideas each year in order to reinforce growth.

Florent Laroche-Joubert
Equity Research Analyst in Real Estate, Oddo BHF

Okay. That, that's very interesting. Thank you very much.

Operator

The next question comes from Aakanksha Anand from Citigroup. Please go ahead.

Aakanksha Anand
VP, Citigroup

Hi. Good morning, everyone. Three questions from my side. I can take them one by one. The first one is just on the indexation outperformance. That clearly seems to be on an upward trend. I just wanted to understand that do you see a pathway to growth, you know, to the 2017 levels of indexation outperformance, which was closer to 2%? Or do you think those days are actually behind us, and the 100 basis points outperformance is the new normal?

Pierre-Yves Thirion
CFO, Carmila

Okay, first on indexation, so impact for 2026, to start with, with that point. It will be a lower impact in 2026 than in 2025. But we have demonstrated our capacity to create value in all kind of market indexation, so we will continue to do so in 2026. Then, 2027 and after, we don't have the crystal ball, but what are saying the models is that it will be between 1.5 gradually to 2%. So we believe that we can come back to those level of indexation. But of course, this is a market data and not specific to Carmila, but we have the ability to work in a high indexation environment and lower indexation environment.

Aakanksha Anand
VP, Citigroup

Understood. The second question is on the vacancy. So vacancy seems to keep inching higher. I mean, it's not significant numbers, but it was around 5.1% in 2023, 5.3% in 2024, and now it's 5.7%. Is this, so what are the drivers, kind of behind this?

Pierre-Yves Thirion
CFO, Carmila

So about financial occupancy, our financial occupancy is up by 30 basis points, and we believe that the most accurate indicator is the financial occupancy to measure the current performance. That's true that there is a slight decrease of minus 30 basis points in the EPRA occupancy, but this is driven by strategic vacancy, which rose this year from 1.5% to 2%. This strategic occupancy allows us to proactively do restructuring and through our agile projects. This is something that we proactively manage, and that's why we believe financial occupancy is the best indicator of plus 30 basis points. In short, we want to trade passive occupancy with strategic positioning for assets.

Behind those numbers, what we can see is that the physical occupancy is following the same trend that the financial occupancy.

Aakanksha Anand
VP, Citigroup

Got it. The third question on acquisitions, just pushing a little bit further, to the answers given, for the previous questions on acquisition as well. So the acquisitions that you see on the horizon, can we expect like a similar level of accretion as we saw from Galimmo? Or do you think it might be slightly lower than that? And is there a geographical preference that you have for acquisitions? I mean, Spain, you know, seems to have pretty good momentum.

Pierre-Yves Thirion
CFO, Carmila

So, on the accretion from acquisition, the idea that we have is to dispose of asset at 6.5% and to reinvest the fund in accretive acquisition. So Galimmo was the perfect acquisition. I mean, with a yield of 9.5%, strategic fit with Carmila, not easy to replicate, but there are some opportunities on the market with potential of spread between the acquisition price and the value. And on top of that, we believe that we can create additional value with asset management. So the focus is clearly to have a spread between the acquisition and the valuation. And let's say we target a spread of more than 100 or 150 basis points to give you an idea of the value creation.

Aakanksha Anand
VP, Citigroup

Perfect. Thank you so much. That's all my questions.

Pierre-Yves Thirion
CFO, Carmila

Thank you, Aakanksha.

Operator

The next question comes from Alex Kolsteren from Van Lanschot Kempen. Please go ahead.

Alex Kolsteren
Equity Research Associate in Real Estate, Van Lanschot Kempen

Hi, team. Good morning. Thanks for the presentation. A couple questions at this point. I'll go by them one by one. First, so the Q4 reletting spread increased quite a bit. What drove that?

Pierre-Yves Thirion
CFO, Carmila

So, what we are saying about quarterly performance, we think that the most accurate is the annual view. It's 3.8 this year, it was 3% last year, so it's increasing. That's going in the good way. Then quarter after quarter, you can have one or two negotiation, which are pushing the reversion or weighing on the reversion. So I think the good focus is the annual view, and it's 3.8% and accelerating this year.

Alex Kolsteren
Equity Research Associate in Real Estate, Van Lanschot Kempen

Okay, thank you. Yeah, then on the Carmila retail media deal, appreciate that you provide the numbers. That 1%-2% EBITDA contribution, is that net of any cost?

Pierre-Yves Thirion
CFO, Carmila

Yes. Yes, it's the net contribution, it's the value creation from the retail media initiatives, so it's net of any cost. It will go directly through, it will directly contribute in the recurring earnings, 100% of it.

Alex Kolsteren
Equity Research Associate in Real Estate, Van Lanschot Kempen

Okay, okay. So there's also no CapEx requirement attached to that?

Pierre-Yves Thirion
CFO, Carmila

Sebastian has talked about the CapEx.

Alex Kolsteren
Equity Research Associate in Real Estate, Van Lanschot Kempen

Yeah.

Pierre-Yves Thirion
CFO, Carmila

It's EUR 8 million, so it has no impact on the performance in recurring earnings.

Alex Kolsteren
Equity Research Associate in Real Estate, Van Lanschot Kempen

Okay. Do you think there's further upside in the future?

Pierre-Yves Thirion
CFO, Carmila

So far, 2% is a lot of value creation, so I think it's a good start.

Alex Kolsteren
Equity Research Associate in Real Estate, Van Lanschot Kempen

All right, good. Then on Italian footfall in Q4, that was down 3% year-on-year. Do you think that's related to the Carrefour exit of that country?

Pierre-Yves Thirion
CFO, Carmila

So, yes, Italian footfall. So, we very much like our assets in Italy. We like them with Carrefour, and we like them with the new operator. This is true that a new operator has bought Carrefour's activities in December. So in some way, during those transition period, it can wait temporarily on the footfall. But as there is a new operator, there will be new investment. Italy is performing well, high financial occupancy. We feel a strong interest from investors in Italy, so we are very positive in Italy. So I think it's the footfall performance has not to be judged on the long term—has to be judged on the long-term trend.

Alex Kolsteren
Equity Research Associate in Real Estate, Van Lanschot Kempen

Sure, sure, sure. Okay. And then last one. So on the five major projects, if I look back at the 2023 presentation, then it says they would start in 2025.

Marie Cheval
CEO, Carmila

Mm-hmm.

Alex Kolsteren
Equity Research Associate in Real Estate, Van Lanschot Kempen

And then look at 2024 presentation started, which start in 2026, and now it's again pushed to 2027.

Marie Cheval
CEO, Carmila

Mm-hmm.

Alex Kolsteren
Equity Research Associate in Real Estate, Van Lanschot Kempen

Just trying to understand what's what drives the delay?

Marie Cheval
CEO, Carmila

Well, thank you for your question. You're right. Projects takes time, I think, especially in France. And this year with the local election, it's true that no major step has been passed in projects in France. To give you a bit more color, we are actively pursuing the Terrassa project in Spain, near Barcelona. We are launched, the pre-letting has been launched. The project is really to build to develop a leading shopping center in Catalonia, 30 minutes from Barcelona. So this is probably the most advanced project. Regarding other project in France, regarding Orléans, despite a reported delay, probably you saw the press, we expect the situation to be reconsidered after the next month local election.

We are still working on Montesson, the situation is a bit the same with the impact of the local election, so we are discussing with the local government. To give you other colors on Toulouse Labège. Toulouse Labège, we are working to connect the center to the local metro. It's a big construction work near the center. We opened recently the biggest Zara of the area, and we are working with the local authority to see how we will extend a little the shopping center to take the footfall from the metro. So yes, it's complex, but we continue to work on it. It's our job to manage a long-term project.

Alex Kolsteren
Equity Research Associate in Real Estate, Van Lanschot Kempen

Okay, that was it. Thank you very much.

Operator

The next question comes from Oli Woodall from Kolytics . Please go ahead.

Oli Woodall
Equity Analyst, Kolytics

Hello, good morning. Thank you for taking my question, and congratulations on the results. I've got two questions I'll go with. So first one is looking at your retail sales that were flat in France, and given that France is your largest market, how much of this is you see as macro, macroeconomic softness versus Carmila-specific tenant mix issues? And do you see that as a risk as your ability to push rents when they renew? And then second question, regarding valuations, do you see other pieces of evidence that give you confidence that valuations are turning around other than the one basis points decrease in yields, i.e., transactions in the market and things like that?

Marie Cheval
CEO, Carmila

Well, thank you for your question. So on retailer sales in France, first, they remain positive. In fact, they are outperforming the market and the fact indexed and outperforming the French consumption in France. French consumption, it was -0.9%, in 2025. It's true that French consumers saw a softness in 2025 and due to political and economic uncertainties, but we are confident that they will remain positive this year, and that our shopping center, thanks to the Carrefour hypermarket anchors, remain attractive for the footfall. And I would like to emphasize the fact that we also have to focus on the long-term trend. Beyond short-term consumption shifts, we are really consolidating our leadership in people's daily lives.

As you can see, with the financial occupancy, the leasing activity, which was really powerful last year, and so on. So we still remain confident on the orientation of sales this year.

Pierre-Yves Thirion
CFO, Carmila

To follow up on the valuations and market evidence on valuations, I think the best example is the Carmila disposal program. In the last 48 months, we have disposed of 6% of the portfolio, and this has been made in line with the book valuation for some assets in France, for some assets in Spain. We have clearly proven that we have the ability to sell assets in line with our book value. Now, what we can see on the investment market is probably Spain is much more active than France, but there are good opportunities for good assets in France, and this is positive for Carmila.

Oli Woodall
Equity Analyst, Kolytics

Okay, that's clear. Thank you very much.

Operator

There are no more questions at this time, so I hand the conference back to the speakers for written questions.

Pierre-Yves Thirion
CFO, Carmila

Okay. So, a question about Next Tower and the ability to dispose of Next Tower given the current multiples.

Marie Cheval
CEO, Carmila

Well, Next Tower currently is developing organic growth, and we still have growth to catch. And we will see perhaps one day if there is opportunity to make M&A around Next Tower, but it is not for the calendar for this year.

Pierre-Yves Thirion
CFO, Carmila

We don't have any more questions on the chat.

Marie Cheval
CEO, Carmila

Question in the room? No. Well, thank you very much for your time and attention. Thank you for your questions.

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