Good morning. Welcome in Madrid for this Capital Markets Day dedicated to Cobra IS. My colleagues and I are delighted to put the spotlight on this outstanding company, which joined VINCI almost 2 years ago. Its integration within VINCI is a success, definitely, both on a human and business point of view. Cobra IS is over-delivering our initial expectations, as you will understand today. Next slide. Yes. Okay. As you know, VINCI, as a pioneer, has been focusing strategically and consistently on its energy activities for more than 20 years. This has resulted in the sharp internal and external growth of VINCI Energies. Those expertise have proven to be fully aligned with the energy and digital mega trends that we have been observing for some years now.
The group's expansion in this area further accelerated with the integration of Cobra IS in the last two years. Today, VINCI's business model is even more resilient, less cyclical and strong than it was previously, with three large main sector of activities: concession, construction, and energy services. As a result, we have today an almost unique and unrivaled expertise, which will enable us to leverage on the huge opportunities offered by the global challenges, such as energy transition, mobility transition needs, urban development, and digital transformation. Last but not least, VINCI can rely on a very solid balance sheet and a significant amount of liquidity to finance its development strategy. That said, we are confident and enthusiastic about the future, which should be bright for VINCI.
VINCI's companies and expertise are involved all along the value chain of the energy business, from power generation, transformation, transport, and distribution to electricity end markets, decarbonization, and energy efficiency. That's a key positioning. We are at the heart of energy challenges, which are ramping up worldwide, particularly since the beginning of the war in Ukraine. Countries are targeting to be more energy sovereign, are increasing the share of electricity, particularly from renewable sources in their energy mix. Our clients worldwide want to reduce their carbon footprint. They are looking for energy efficiency through renewal of buildings, infrastructure networks, and production sites. Decarbonization is on the agenda of everybody, everywhere. It is urgent and will require trillions of investment worldwide. VINCI, as one of the world's very top leaders and players of this market, is ideally fitted and positioned to benefit massively from these long-lasting trends.
A few figures to see how big and important this energy business, boosted by Cobra IS, is for VINCI. Revenue of more than EUR 22 billion last year. That's almost 40% of the total consolidated revenue. Energy EBIT, Energy's EBIT account for almost one quarter of total group EBIT. Finally, 50% of our total workforce are employed in energy-related activities. Not talking about VINCI Construction, which is generating more and more revenue out of the energy-related projects. These are 2022 figures. No doubt that the contribution of energy will keep on increasing steadily in years to come, to become, in a few years' time, and probably quicker than one could expect, the largest business of VINCI in terms of revenue.
It's now high time we deep dive into Cobra IS to highlight its organization, its corporate culture, its expertise in both flow business and EPC energy project, and main geographies, which are very complementary to VINCI's one, and also its strategy and outlook. To do so, let me introduce the speakers for today's event. Christophe Pélissié, in charge of the business development at VINCI, who will remind us the rationale of this acquisition and disclose the mid-term and long-term financial forecast of Cobra IS. Christophe was personally involved in the almost two-year lasting negotiation with ACS Grupo, which were successfully closed at the end of December 2021. Then José María Castillo, CEO of Cobra IS, will present the snapshot of Cobra IS in terms of businesses, key success factors, risk management, strategy, ESG commitments. Both José María and Christophe are colleagues of mine in the executive committee of VINCI.
Then we will hear José Luis García, CFO of Cobra IS. He will cover all you need to know about the flow business. Then Raúl Llamazares, CEO of Intecsa Industrial, one of the 15 subgroups of Cobra IS. Raúl has been managing complex EPC projects for more than 20 years in many countries. He will share with us his knowledge on this business and how risk management, a key success factor for EPC, is tightly monitored at Cobra. Pedro Ascorbe and Cristina Sanz, President and CEO of Dragados Offshore, another very interesting subgroup of Cobra IS, will do a focus on the HVDC, high-voltage direct current offshore platform, a very buoyant niche market with stellar growth perspectives. Bautista García, head of Industrial Plants and Energy for Cobra. He came from Peru, not today, but yesterday, where he has been living for many years.
Raúl will present you a case study on an ambitious project to build one of the most modern refineries in the world in Peru. Then José Antonio Fernández, the head of renewable energy at Cobra IS, will describe Cobra's strategy and competitive edge in this sector to build, over time, a significant and valuable portfolio of renewable energy assets. And then I will be back on stage with José María at the end of the day for the conclusion and the Q&A session. Thank you very much.
Good morning to all of you. Christophe Pélissié du Rausas. I am the Vice President of Business Development of VINCI Energies, VINCI Energies. I've been quite active in negotiation for two years, and in a way, I'm very pleased, very pleased to be with you today because I am dream of this day for two years. So thanks to be here, and I'm very pleased to be with you. What I would want to do is very simple: explain you why we did this acquisition, what was, what was the rationale. Second, what a quick blink on what we have done in two years, and thirdly, how we—what kind of common vision of the future we have. So, next slide, please.
Taking it from where Christian left it, we want to show you two things by this slide. The first one is that the, energy services and project activity within VINCI today is of great importance. Certain figures have been already disclosed by Christian. 36% of revenue, 50% of employees, 23% of EBIT, 17% of capital employed. So you see the importance today of this activity within the group. And, on the right side of the slide, I don't know if you knew this ranking, showing that, we are by far the unrivaled leader in this activity in the world, with, a turnover around EUR 25 billion. And all the—you see then the ranking of all the other competitors, in the world.
I don't know if you are in the mood of challenging us today. If you are in the mood of challenging us, you could say, "Look, guys, for years, you have told us margin over volume. We don't care about volume, and you are speaking us today about volume." I would answer two things about that. The first thing that, okay, we are first in terms of volume, but as you will see today, we are also first best in class in terms of margin, and I think it's quite important. So we have not forgotten, and we have not given up this motto of margin over volume. We are, we are leader in this activity, and we are also best in class in margin.
The second thing I'd want to insist upon is that in the actual circumstances, in this actual market, it can make sense to have an important volume in this activity. Why? For three reasons. Firstly, you have certain clients in the world that, by the extension of their facilities, like to have a contractor, a supplier, which is able to serve them in this in several locations of the world. This is the first reason. The second one, that inside this contract, you have a proportion of procurement, which is quite high, typically up to 50%, and by the volume, you have a better buying power on your own suppliers. So it's a factor of competitiveness.
The third reason that I think we insist upon that today is that you have today a kind of disequilibrium between supply and demand in this sector, totally driven by the energy transition. So when you do the complete consequences of that, a key factor to be competitive is your capacity of attracting talents, and you are better placed to attract talents if you are a company with a global presence. These are three reasons for which we really think this positioning as world leader makes sense. You can go to the next, next slide. What I would want to do in two very short slides is explain you why we did this acquisition, what was our rationale, and I will do that by two set of reasons, if you want.
The first set of reasons is completely linked with the perimeter, with the scope. We found some obvious complementarities between Cobra IS and our own scope of services. And the second set of reasons are more what you could call a kind of cultural fit that I would try to explain. The perimeter reasons are very simple to explain. There is firstly a geographical complementarity. Cobra IS is very strong, was very strong when we started the discussion, and is still very strong in Iberian Peninsula, in Latin America, where VINCI Energies was all absent or not so strong. Second, there is a complementarity in terms of expertise.
While we were, and we are still very strong in electromechanical projects, let's say small and medium-sized projects, what we call flow business, because you usually do it in a recurring manner with your clients. We are strong in certain EPC contracts in other sectors of constructions, more civil works-oriented. We are not really present in this segment of major EPC electromechanical contracts, and this, Cobra IS was bringing us this segment of expertise that we didn't have. So this is the second perimeter complementarity. And the third one is, I think, obvious because it is the renewable platforms that we didn't have. We were, as you know, and we are present in certain sectors of investments long term.
We are present in the world of renewables through EPC, through engineering, through construction, through maintenance, but we were not present in terms of development, and Cobra IS brought us that. And that are the three main complementarities in terms of perimeter. So if we go to the next slide, these are more the cultural reasons that confirm our willingness of doing this acquisition when we started the discussions on negotiations. And I have highlighted there, trying to sum them up, I've highlighted them in three main reasons. The first one, what we found out in Cobra IS, as I have always known in VINCI, is this willingness of diversifying your risk by the time horizon of your contracts. You see what I mean?
In VINCI and in Cobra IS, we have very short-term contracts, like one or two months, let's say EUR 20,000, EUR 30,000, EUR 50,000, EUR 100,000. We have also, let's say, midterm contracts, one, two, three years, where you are more in the range of EUR 10 million, EUR 20 million, EUR 30 million, EUR 50 million, EUR 100 million, EUR 200 million. This is another time horizon, but we also have contracts where you invest yourself within 20 years, 30 years, in higher investment level. And this, I think, is really in the DNA of VINCI, and we found out it was also in the DNA of Cobra IS, and it was the first cultural concurrence.
The second one, which is perhaps even more important, is that, as you know, in VINCI, we strongly believe in decentralization and autonomy of business units, and we found out exactly the same philosophy within Cobra IS. You have here certain figures on this slide. You see a figure like 550 business units. If you make a very short calculation, the order of magnitude of Cobra IS, when we started the discussion, was around EUR 6 billion. If you run this figure up to 600, you see that the average size of a business unit is around EUR 10 million. EUR 10 million, it's not huge, and it's more or less the same order of magnitude of what we have in VINCI Energy.
So we were really on the same page, on the same page in terms of decentralizations, autonomy, and willingness of empowerment of the head of these business units. Just to tell you so, the words that are used in our language in Cobra IS, they speak about delegaciones, and the head of the delegacion is a delegado. When in VINCI Energies, whose roots are in France, they speak about entreprise and chef d'entreprise. So these are really something where we had a cultural convergence. And the third cultural concurrence is obviously that we found a real group of engineers eager to deploy their activity around the world and with a strong entrepreneurial spirit.
These are, so if you want, the set of reasons that convinced us finally to do this acquisition. If you go to the next slide, you will see what I could call the three pillars now of this activity. If you have followed me, you have the flow business, you have the EPC, and you have the renewable assets platform. So some words about each of them. The flow business, when you make... I don't know if you realize that if you make the sum of VINCI Energies plus the flow business part of Cobra, the flow business part of Cobra, if you wanted to keep a figure in mind, is around two-thirds of Cobra. Two-thirds is flow business, one-third is EPC.
So two-thirds, if you add up two-thirds of Cobra on Vinci Energy, you are in the range of EUR 22 billion. I think this is an unrivaled platform of flow business in this business, twenty-two billion, and it really makes you, in many countries, the market leader or one of the market leaders, and we think it's quite important. Regarding EPC, what I would want to emphasize two things. So first one, when I compare the landscape of competition of EPC project, of major electromechanical EPC projects, I compare the landscape of today and I compare it to the landscape 10 or 15 years ago, I see a much higher scarcity of players. You have less and less companies able to do EUR 1 billion contract in this sector, less and less.
As the demand is booming because of the energy transition, and that's obvious, I would say, nearly every day, it gives you a capacity of selectivity, which is quite welcome in this world of major EPC projects. The second thing I want to point out, again, if you were in the mood of challenging us a little bit, you could say, you have explained us for years that you wanted to maintain a reasonable exposure, exposure to major projects, and by this acquisition, you have an additional exposure to major projects of the magnitude, EUR 2 billion, one third of EUR 6 billion. Isn't it an unreasonable risk?
I think you should take into account that the risk profile of this electromechanical EPC project is quite different of the EPC project in other sector of construction. And why? Again, because you have this quite important proportion of procurement, up to 50%, and to manage this proportion of your risk which can be up to 50%, which is procurement, you basically need firstly, a good design, and second, a good procurement management platform with an international basis and the capacity of buying the best part of the object worldwide at the best price and the best quality. So it's a quite different risk management.
In parallel, your exposure to what I could call the local risk, like, on one side, the soil conditions, the geotechnical and so on, or in the other side, even labor conditions, or permitting and so on, is decreased by this proportion of procurement. So that's why we were convinced to accept this higher exposure to major projects. And if you combine that with what I said earlier, which is selectivity and capacity of selectivity, increasing demand and scarcity of players, that's why you are convinced it must be a successful segment, which we have been confirmed in the last two years. And what you see on the right side of the slide, the renewable assets platform is, okay, obviously, what we wanted to acquire.
And you will have more information about it, where we are, what we have done in the last two years, and what—how we project ourselves for this platform during the day. So if you can go to the next slide. So, that's why I tried to explain to you why we did this acquisition. Now I have a very quick glance about what we have done in two years. You will have much more explanation today, but a very quick glance, and then how we see the future. So, what we have done in two days, you have this slide, which is more quantitative, some quick figures. The next one will be more qualitative, some projects, before looking what we can—how we see the future. I think these figures speak for themselves.
When we had this, perhaps certain of you were in the room where we, or on the phone, when we were in this analyst conference, it was the first day of April 2021, and, you know, we had signed in the, during the night. And, we said we think the margin we're expecting after due diligence for Cobra IS is 6%+. That more or less the word that was pronounced by our CEO, Mr. Huillard. And today, the margin is 7.4%, so we are above our expectations. Certain of you, perhaps you knew what kind of margin was released by ACS.
I would want to insist on the fact that it's not the same perimeter, because the acquisition perimeter, we didn't buy a certain number of mature concessions that we didn't think were making sense to us. So it's not the same perimeter, but the margin, and this, the margin you have there, the 7.4%, is the last 12 months. The margin is above our expectation. And I think also the figure for the backlog, which has been nearly multiplied by two, speaks for itself. And some examples of a little bit more color about what has been done in the last two years. If you go to the next slide.
So here you have six examples of projects, four of them being EPC and two of them being flow business. We think it's important also to show flow business because it's contracts that are perhaps less visible, you have less media attraction, but they are firstly, two sort of business, and second, I think also they are very important in the light of citizen or in the countries in which we are present. So you see, firstly, contribution to the Fiber to the Home program in Peru, where we are quite active and we have flow business in Peru, which is quite successful. At the bottom of it, you see our contribution to interlocking and signaling in Spain.
Then you have four images of major EPC contracts that have been won in the period since January 2022. The first one is the electromechanical package for the Fehmarn tunnel. You know, the Fehmarn tunnel is this major and, you know, huge tunnel, submerged tunnel, immersed tunnel, which will link Germany to Denmark, and Cobra IS has been awarded the electromechanical package of this tunnel. Perhaps you remember that VINCI Construction is the leading company of the consortium, which is building the civil works. So we are doing the civil works in VINCI, and we are also active in this electromechanical package now with Cobra IS.
Then on the right of this image, you have a scheme of a converter, a HVDC converter. HVDC, high voltage direct current, which are these substations offshore that are absolutely necessary in order to convert the alternating current that is coming from the wind farm to direct current, so you can transport the current to the shore in minimizing the losses of energy. And these kind of objects, you build them for typically 1 GW or 2 GW, and they are absolutely necessary for the good functioning of the offshore wind. I think from time to time that perhaps the planners have forgotten the importance and the budget for, I mean, all this grid reinforcement, all these transforming objects.
We were able to get, I think, on a total order intake of 12 GW for these objects, which is totally huge, and the value of the contracts linked to this order intake at our perimeter is around EUR 7 billion. So it's quite huge, and this has been accomplished in the last two years. You see then, on the left bottom side, an image of a high voltage line in Brazil, where we have been able to been awarded two PPP, public-private partnerships, and three EPC, engineering, procurement, construction. Meaning we are investing for the Brazilian authorities in two projects, bi- on building the high voltage line, and for three contracts, we are a pure EPC contractor for another investor.
So what it means is this activity in Brazil that we found out, and we do, we did the due deal at that time in, in years 2020 and 2021, mainly 2020, has been totally successful in the last months in order to renew its order, its, its backlog. And the last image you can see is also linked to the energy transition because it's a regasification terminal that we have been awarding in the north of Germany. This is totally linked with the new equilibrium in the world of energy, linked to the Ukrainian war. Germany cannot import any more Russian gas, so it has to offload liquid gas and to have a regasification terminal that is so at the north of the, the north of Germany.
Value of the, I mean, value of the project is around one billion. So you can see on the right of the slide, two examples of projects that we have developed from scratch, from greenfield. The first one is, and this is our two accomplishment of the renewable platform. The first one is Belmonte, 600 MW, that has been connected to the grid successfully in July this year, and we are producing electron every day now in Brazil. The second one is under construction in Spain. In one of the— It's one of the photovoltaic plant that is under construction, which is under construction in Spain.
It's a total project of 1.2 GW, out of which 800 MW will be under construction at the end of this year. This is a photo of this construction. So after this very short, and I, I'm sorry, but very quick trip, but what we did the acquisition, why we did the acquisition, what we have done in the last two years. Just a word about the kind of guideline we can imagine for the next two years. And here you have the figures that we could envisage for the next two years.
So we think the revenue in contracting, EPC plus flow business, the revenue should not be less than EUR 7.5 billion, with a margin which should not be less than 7.5%. So it's quite easy to remind that what we think for year 2025. And for the renewable platform, we think the additional capacity we should be able to bring to the start of construction every year is should be in average 1.5 GW. Meaning in year 2025, we should have 5 GW under operation or under construction, 2025 in 2030, we should have 12 GW under construction or under operation.
When you consider these figures at actual market conditions, depending upon the technology, depending upon the country, it means the CapEx, the average CapEx investment, is in the range of EUR 1 billion, again, depending on the country, depending upon the country and depending upon the technology. Today, the mix in our pipeline is around between 80/20, 90/10, between PV and PV, photovoltaic, and wind. So that's the main facts and figure I wanted to, to transmit you today. I'm very pleased to, to leave the floor to José María, who will explain you more Cobra IS, his teams, and his way to tackle the markets. Thank you.
Okay. Good morning. I'm going to try to explain you, in a few words, and not to bore so much you, what is Cobra IS. It's a, it's a complex company to understand, but, I think that after my explanation, you could evaluate better than now. I am going to stop a little bit in the first slide, please. Because here is the heart of the company. Here is the explanation of how, why we are so successful in this industry in the last 30, 40 years. In terms of figures, we are a pretty big company in this industry. You can see that, we have 65 countries or more, our footprint there. We have more than 40,000 employees. Our level of revenue is in this size, you can see there, EUR 6 billion.
We are developing and constructing now, in this moment, 2 gigas. Well, there's, you know, 600 that we have in operation today. And why? And how? Okay. There is not other company in the industry with this capacity to do different activities in the whole value chain, chain of this industry. There is not. There was, but broke. There is not. There is not any company with 2/3 of their revenue in flow business, at the same time, that is, has the knowledge to do complex EPCs, and at the same time, has inside a platform, a success renewable energy platform, that has been put in place in the last 25 years. This is something unique. And what this allow us to do, that's the big advantage that Cobra IS has in this industry.
This structure of businesses allows us to go to the market, or to the activity, or to the country, when we smell that there is money there. And if you saw what we did in the last 20 years, you can see these movements. The origin of this company is the flow business, and it's the spirit of the company, to have the sensitivity to know where is each euro, where is each guy that work for us, where is each problem, where is each advantage. And that's the spirit of the company, okay? And we are not going to go out of this business in our life. It's more complex to manage that EPC projects or to do or to say that we are developing renewable energy, because has, in the other way that people think, think, much more highest barriers to entry that EPC projects.
To bid an EPC project, you only need a balance sheet and a bond. There's some banks that goes for the world, gives you a guarantee to bid. This is the only barrier you have. I assure you, it's the only barrier you have. People think that the wise... No, no. If you have the guarantee of the bank, and you have the balance sheet, you can offer that. But with these contracts that are so recurring in terms of cash, and so stable in terms of revenue, you can bid with one guy saying that he did a combined cycle 10 years ago. You can't, because people wants to see your resources, your human resources, your spirit, your equipment.
From this original business, we went many years ago to the other two activities, because we smelled that perhaps we could increase our margins in there, in them. How we face EPCs? We face EPCs in the same way that we face flow business, with very high respect to the countries, to the customers, and absolutely rigorous way to approach to the contracts. Here is the key: the contract. It's more close to the how the contract is, if you are going to have a success, that what is the level of the prices. Remember this, this. This is key. All the companies that have had problems in the past, all of them are due to bad contracts, to sign absolutely impossible contracts. And you, majority of you that know about the financing industry, must know that.
Because you see, much of you ask your customers or people that you ask you money, that for this investment, you have you want my money, you must have this kind of contract with your EPC business, the EPC contractor. This contract that financial industry wants kill companies, kill EPC contractors. This contract that the financial industry ask to their customers, saying, "I need to give you their money, this contract with these clauses." Okay, this contract with these clauses are not signed by Cobra IS. Then, if the majority of the banks or financial institutions need this kind of contracts to lend money to their customers, Cobra IS is not going to be in this contract, for sure.
I don't know what is going to be the principal contractor, but it's not going to be Cobra IS. And finally, we have the renewable energy assets platform that we put in place more than 25 years ago, in Spain, obviously, because we want to try to, at the very beginning, push our EPC contractor capacity. But after that, we saw and we see that we can do a good businesses and a good profits with them. With all this flexibility that we have to change the countries and to change activities that we want, because we have the capacities and the knowledge, okay? We never failed a single year in our life in terms of margin. Never, in 20 years.
People who say that this contract, that you are increasing the backlog with risky contracts, we are not increasing any of our backlog in our life with risky contracts. This is not going to be the first time with the huge market we ever see. This is not going to be, okay? Perhaps it's less risky than what we had years ago. Never in 20 years, we never failed in margin. We are not going to fail in the next 20 years. I don't know why, what is going to be the reason to fail in the next 20 years, if we didn't fail with other kind of market. I'm going to disclose some figures. In the last two years, including this, we have cash conversion above 150% of our net profit.
We are going to continue in this way, are improving it. That is because we know how we must be to create value for our shareholder. This is our unique, in the last 20 years, it's nothing new, unique target we have, this huge management team I have, that is the best in the industry. I am going to repeat some of these messages in the next slides, okay? But I want to fix in this slide the main messages for this meeting. Here we have what, how we create this company with this advantage that I explained you before, in terms of create an global the whole value change actor in this industry.
From the creation of Cobra 80 years ago, through the merger with the Dragados Industrial that come here with some of the companies that you are going to know today, with the capacities that they know, they have, sorry. When we appear in the renewables industry, and why we go out of some countries and appears again when we smell again that we would be profitable there. Here is a summary. Please, next slide. How we win? We haven't a secret of the Coke, you know. There is only one secret, that is this management team I have. There are no more secrets. Then, as the others can, haven't this management I have, they can't reply it.
Because there is not going to be in this meeting any word that could be new for you about what is... How you manage the risks. There is only one way to manage the risk: say no when the contract is not comfortable. This is not the only, because all guys that talk to you about all this list of issues you must check to understand if you must go to the contract or not, is to say, "Yes, yes, yes, yes, done, done, done," and sign any contract they have. That is the committee risk process, and so on. You must say no when they ask for stupid things. For example, for consequential or the profit or deny you any force majeure or something like that.
But people sign it, and after that, people say that, "No, Brazil is a bad country because this company has a problem in Brazil." Why Brazil? Ask the contract for this company. No ask what happened in Brazil. And really, the centralization organization, this is, this is our head, okay? But really, the centralized . Not a decentralization organization with a huge holding, looking for these guys that are the centralized to control them, because this is not the centralized , anything. The centralized , the operations has risks, for sure. For sure. But if you have the best management team in the industry, you can do it. But if you have some guys of you, some friends of you, you have a problem to the centralized that operation.
But it's key, it's key to have the best management team and really the centralized organization. We are cautious with where we must do businesses. You are going to see later our project in Talara. That is a big refinery in Petroperú in Peru. If this contract appears in the U.S., imagine we were not bid that contract. Then you are in the business around refineries? It depends. It depends. In Peru, for example, for Petroperú, with the team we have in Peru, yes, we bid. But if we must go to Australia to do a combined cycle, we are not going to do. I know that is more sexy, Australia than Peru, but we are not going to go to Australia.
Because we have money there in Peru, I don't know what we are going to throw it in Australia without any knowledge about the country. But we are, you are in the combined cycle industry. It depends. It depends. We have this multi-expertise company that I explained to you before. And we are focused on margins all our life. People said, and with some reason, said that we are so conservative in terms of growth. Yes. We have now the advantage is that the market has explode. Then, with this huge market, included us, are going to growth a lot. Include us, that we are so conservative and so not enough aggressive. Which included us, we are going to growth a lot.
And we have a platform to develop a green energy that has demonstrated in the last 20 years that at least we do in a reasonable way. I don't know if we are the best. I think no. But we are pretty high in the classification. Okay, next slide, please. And this is the key, okay? This is the organization. We have absolutely the centralized , with 15 subsidiaries that are the head of the company. These 15 guys, with their teams, because these guys have a really decentralized company behind them. This is nothing that I am decentralized because in my whole, in our 15, we are 15, and go to these 15 subsidiaries. In these 15 subsidiaries, we have a big head of people trying to control every of the operations we have below them.
No, we have a really decentralized organization behind these guys. Next slide, please. Here, you can see what is our actual situations in terms of revenue and backlog. You can see there that, as you know, we are in our historic regions, South America and Spain, basically. You can see that we are growing or we are going to grow, due to our backlogs numbers now in different regions, for example, in rest of Europe. It's true that this has something to is linked with the allocation of this backlog that we have in Dragados Offshore, because we have this backlog allocated in rest of Europe because the device is installed there.
But as you know, and you are going to know ahead with explanations that Pedro and Cristina are going to give you, we are going to manufacture these devices in our yards, Cádiz, Algeciras, or part of them in Mexico, if it is necessary. But you can see there that our flow business is two-thirds of Cobra, as Christophe said, and we have this exposure now. It's normal to have a huge backlog in EPCs and less in flow business. A backlog in around 12 months in flow business is a healthy backlog. Normal would be between 10 to 14 months because contracts die and another's birth. Right? Then it's this is natural way that we have.
What we have here is the explanation that we have a much huge backlog in EPC that we ever had, and this is where is going to be the next 2, 3 years' growth, because flow business, as you know, are going to be basically in the GDP of the countries we are. Okay, next slide. This is explanation. We are in the whole value chains in all the activities and the whole value chain in all the parts of any contract before the between the scratch, develop, engineering, the project, the construction, and the maintenance and operation of the contracts. In the same way, we are in all of these activities in network. That is our original activity more focused on electric distribution, water distribution, and communications distribution.
Well, distribution, the communications, facilities. We are in the, in any electromechanical installations or maintenance of operation in any, industrial building or work. We have a very huge exposure to control systems, basically linked with mobility. In Spain, we are leaders by far, and now we are exporting this kind of projects to U.S. and to Australia, mainly, with great success. We have the capabilities to do this integrated project that are the EPC projects, and we have the knowledge to develop and to create value for the company, with our investment in assets, basically energy, green energy, transmission lines, and water. Please, next slide. You know, this is the list. Everyone put this list, you know?
You talk with the companies that broke in the last 10 years, has been with an injection of capital from the governments in the last 10 years, and all of them talks about commercial, technical, control, legal, financial, safety, regulation. We have all included in our risk process matrix. Yeah, but this is rubbish if you don't say no to the contracts because you don't resist the pressure of the market that say your backlog is going down, and, "Guys, sign at any price!" Then 5 years later, what we have? What we have 5 years later? One year clap, and 5 years later, what happened? Now, one—this is a one write-off without cash impact. Now, the cash impact was the last 5 years, and the benefit you say in the last 5 years was a lie.
Well, well, one write-off. Now, it's a legacy project, a legacy by the Holy Spirit. Okay. Then, what we do? What everyone does. This, but with rigorous, real rigorous analysis of any project and with a discipline, real discipline about what we could assume and what we couldn't. That's one, this is one of the reasons because during the COVID, our backlog goes down dramatically. Because, you know, the market did this in one month, and you can decide. You must decide. You fight for this less, absolutely a small market, fighting against everyone at any price, or be calm because you have your flow business, you have your renewable energy platform. Be calm, don't be panic, and wait your opportunity. And opportunities have appeared, but you must be calm.
If you are waiting, my shareholders say that we are. Yes, this could end in the fire out of the CEO. Okay? But this is not going to end in a disaster for Cobra, yes. This is something that you must understand. If we are not going to put in risk our company or the shareholder in our life, because we want to be here one year more, signing any contract to. If they want to change of the CEO of the company because the backlog is going down, change it. But we are not going to give opportunities to this pressure. Next slide, please. And this is what I said. We are not rookies in this industry.
We have in this industry in the last 25 years, in the renewable energy, we began 25 years with some thermosolar and wind farm plants here in Spain. When the situation changed, we decide not to be, to, to do more. Then we did something in Mexico. In South America, sorry. And after that, we thought that could be another opportunity here in Spain. We began again with that big auction that we won in Spain. That was another surprise, that people said that, "These Cobra guys has became crazy about this, how they won." People friends of mine in big utilities in Spain said that this, "Castillo has suicide with this decision." Was a good success. We smelled there was something there, and we won.
And now, as you know, we have some opportunities all over the world, and about offshore is going to be explained better by José Antonio. But we are so cautious about that. We have not much special there, apart from all of this laundry list of potential projects, but are not compromised there about our own money. We only have basically one project. And this is—it has a good size, and we are going to have good solutions for it. And this is our compromise and what we want to do. And in the same way that we never fail in terms of margin in 20 years, we are not going to fail with our compromises in this way.
Perhaps we have a little delay in some of them, it's true, but we are not going to fail. Okay, next slide, please. And in the same way that we have this discipline about, around the margins, around our contracts, around our activities, we have the same discipline, around safety. Because for us, it's something that is not negotiated because there is the health of our company, people. Our treasury, we haven't assets today. We are going to have, but we haven't assets today. Our unique asset is guys. When VINCI paid EUR 4.2 billion, they were, they paid that money from 42,000 guys. We haven't any assets. Our headquarters is rented. It's not, it's not our office, okay? It's rented. But we haven't assets. They paid that for this management team and for this 42,000.
Then, we must have them safe. And in the same way we do with the, with the rest of the, of the business, we have a really decentralized responsibility in this item, in, in safety. And any of our workers has the power or empowerment to stop any contract if they, they, if they, the guys that are working or are going to work, they don't feel safe. Then our stop work policy is key here, and it's key, and it's part of our spirit, the decentralized of their responsibility in the company. Next slide, please. As you can understand, we had all the commitment with the environmental, social, and governance issues. We are 100% aligned with the B Corp's ambition.
We had, in my opinion, this is my opinion, a very good ESG program before VINCI, but now with VINCI, it's my opinion that we have a better one. This is nothing that we could hide. But we are absolutely aligned with this ESG program, that ambition that VINCI has, and us, in the rest of our business and in way of life, we must be the best also in these issues. I many times said my management team, that it's our obligation to be the best. We can't compete in terms of margin with Apple, I don't know, with Google, I don't know. But there are not excuses to not be the best in our industry, in our industry. And we are not going to achieve 20%.
When we were in 10%, perhaps in the next years, in terms of every—what someone of you ask of: "Are you going to increase to 11%?" I don't know, but, could be, could be not. Okay? Because this is not Apple, okay? This is not a startup. This is no Coke. But, we haven't any excuse to not be the best in any issue in our—around our business, and this, in this, we must be the best, too. Next slide, please. And this is what we have. As a summarize, we have 13 subsidiaries with the best management team in the industry. By far, all of these, all of these companies are doing money. All of these. All of them.
There are not any of these companies asking money for others' business, squeezing the money of others because we want to. If one of these lose money one more than one year, we close it. That's very easy, because we are not going to be involved in any market or in any business when there is no money. What happened with the backlog? Everyone is talking about these guys are. We call they are inflating the bomb. No? They are inflating the bomb. They are contract at any price. They became crazy. You know, these guys inside VINCI has changed, and they want to show what. No, no, no. This is the most healthy, worthiest, and less risky backlog we ever had. We try to explain you later.
The best, the worthiest, the healthiest, and the less risky backlog we ever had. And the highest, it's true, but we were in this size of market, and the market has done this in 6 months, in 1 year, and we are there. We are lucky, yes. We are lucky. For first time in our life, in this hard industry, we are lucky. Yes, yes. Then you are—we are going—You are going to discuss so exactly how is going to be the margins of each contract? Not... But because they, perhaps, some of our clients could be in panic, you know? And we don't want that. Okay. I, I expected to explain this all better with our management team, that are more brilliant than me. But, and in the Q&A part, I am going to try to explain more.
But, we never fail in 20 years. We have the healthiest, highest backlog in our life. We are in the best, best momentum of the market, of our market, in the history. That is not—I, I don't know what happened when the steam machine appears. I don't know, because I don't were there. I don't was there. But for sure, the, the best momentum of our market in the last 50 years, and we are up. We are, using it, and, I think that we have the best future in the next 2-3 years, for sure, that we ever had. Thank you. Now we have a coffee, I think. Coffee break during 30 minutes. We're gonna have...
... Okay, good morning, all. After this general view of Cobra IS given by José María Castillo and Christophe Pélissié du Rausas, now we are going to get into more detail, and I'm going to speak about the flow business. flow business activities are core for our companies. Most of them have born in flow business, so we can say that flow business is in our DNA. With more or less importance, all of our 15 groups have some flow business activities in their portfolio of contracts. For example, Dragados Offshore, that is a pure EPC contractor, has the O&M of a gas compression platform in Mexico. Or CME Brasil, that is another pure EPC contractor that has a division for the O&M of transmission lines in Brazil.
Getting into general figures, flow business amounts EUR 4 billion in LTM revenues, and backlog is about EUR 5 billion. These figures are done with around 30,000 employees in 51 countries, and you will be listening to me saying that flow business is recurrent, flow business is stable. But we could say that we made growth in the flow business in the last six years, about EUR 1.2 billion, at 42%, helped by an impressive increase of our international flow business that has doubled their figures in this period. Despite this growth in international business, Spain is still the most relevant geography for our flow business activities. Around 60% of revenues, growing at 15% in this period. That is not so bad.
I'm talking about the growth of our flow business, but this term means recurrence with a stable and more or less predictable revenues and cash flows. What's more, we can say for some of our contracts that has been renewed in the long term, is that flow business is like a concession. I will show you a couple of examples in further slides with contracts renewed for the last four years. What is included in flow business, to say that they are activities recurrent and stable? Mainly long-term service contracts, maintenance, O&M, et cetera, that are usually renewed, and small and medium contracts with a recurrent and diversified portfolio of clients. Next slide. Well, remember, Cobra IS born in flow business.
Some of our companies have been doing these activities for more than 80 years, like Cobra, created in 1944, or SICE and SEMI, that are more than one century old. Some historical examples. For example, SICE installed the first traffic light in Madrid in 1926, or SEMI, that started working in the electricity grid in the northwest of Spain in 1929, as Cobra did in 1950. And what about the future? Well, the future looks bright for flow business.
Thanks to be present in all the value chains of our project, as you saw in the previous presentation by José María, and thanks to the expertise of more than 80 years working on this, our flow business activities will benefit of the wind tail coming from the electrification of the world, its interconnection, and the common goal to reduce emissions and increase the energy efficiency. Some examples of what I'm saying: to give service of the electrification of the world, the global grid is expected to grow 80 million kilometers up to 2040. Or the global objective of the electrification of railways, that is expected to reach 60% of the lines in 2030, while now it's around 45%.
Also the need of communications, where EUR 2 billion are expected to be invested in the following years to increase the coverage of the 5G technology in mobile and the optical fiber network. Only Germany is going to invest around EUR 50 billion. Considering all of this, and the expertise, background, and know-how of Cobra IS in these fields, we should be an important actor, not only in the construction of all of these infrastructures, as you will see in the next presentation, but also in the operation, maintenance, and works related to them. Next, please. We have presented our origins, how the future looks, but what do we do in flow business? We have a very wide range of different activities that we categorize in three groups of activities that are well-balanced between each other in terms of revenues.
First, we have the networks, which represents 32% of the LTM revenues and are mainly long-term service, maintenance, and installation contracts for utilities or public administrations. In this category, we include the service we provide to utilities in the distribution networks, mainly maintenance, with clients like Enel Endesa, Naturgy, EDP, REN, the Portuguese grid operator, or Red Eléctrica, the operator of the grid in Spain. The maintenance and operation of the public lighting. These are also long-term contracts with municipalities, where we are in charge of the correct functioning of the streetlights of a town or a city. And the installation and maintenance of communication networks, both fixed and mobile, working, among others, for Telefónica, Orange, or Vodafone in different regions like Spain, Latam, or Europe. Then, we have our facilities.
It represents the 40% of the LTM revenues in small and medium projects with a very diversified portfolio of clients, many of them with a long-term relationship. As facilities, we consider electrical installations and maintenance. This category includes a wide range of different works. We can do the electrical installation of a building and/or the installation of a substation in a PV or photovoltaic plant for the evacuation of the energy. Mechanical installations and maintenance. As the electrical, this one also includes very different works, going from the cooling and the air conditioning installation in, for example, a hotel, to the assembly of a turbine in a power generation plant. And at last, railways. This category mainly includes the installation and maintenance of the catenary over or overhead lines and works related to signaling and security of the railways.
And then, we have our last category, that is control systems. With 28% of LTM revenues, includes the most technological activities of the group: traffic control, both urban and/or interurban, tunnel security systems, installation and operation of toll systems in PPP highways, installation of tech ticketing systems in public transport, and technology for smart cities. Next, please. And now in this slide, we want to show you where we are doing these activities. As I mentioned before, our main country is Spain, where we do more than half of our flow business activity and where we have the biggest portion of our backlog, around 60%. Besides Spain, we have our historical geographies. For example, Portugal, where ProCME, one of our 15 subgroups, is one of the main companies of the country in flow business.
Latam, of course, with countries like Peru or Mexico, where we have been working for more than 25 years, and in some activities, we are recognized as locals, not as a branch of a Spanish company. Nevertheless, the 65% of the flow business activity comes from Spain, Portugal, Mexico, Peru, and Chile. But also the international footprint of flow business out of these historical geographies is growing. It's growing rapidly. Geographies like Europe, mainly Germany and Italy, where we went first with our communications activity, and now we are doing other works, like distribution networks or electrical installations. Or North America, mainly the United States, where we are present with our control systems, working on traffic control and security systems for privates, as subcontractors for these scopes, but also for some DOTs, like the one of Texas or Florida. Next, please.
And now, you know where we are and what we do, but how we do it? Why Cobra is a relevant player in flow business activities. We can summarize it in 5 bullets. First, client knowledge and trust. We have been working with some of our clients for decades ... The trust and knowledge of each other is a key factor to continue doing things with them, and also following them to new countries. As an example, there is an important client for us, that when he goes to a new country, always try to contract local companies, but not only for one time. After that experience, they call us to do the work. Market-tailored know-how. After more than 80 years doing flow business, we have an expertise that allow us to adapt ourselves to the new requirements of the markets and of our clients. In-house developed solutions.
We have the capability to adapt our companies to the requirements of the markets, and we do it internally. We don't go to the M&A to find a company to serve those requirements. We and our teams evolve to adapt our work to the new needs of our activities. Operational excellence, key to be a relevant actor in the world of flow business activities. We try to reach the excellence in every work we do. Thanks to this excellence, your client will trust you and will give you more workload. Thanks to this, we could be considered as one of the best-in-class in flow business. Leadership and track record. This last bullet is a summary of the other four. Leadership is reached thanks to our expertise, our experience, the trust of our clients, and our capacity to adapt to the new requirements of the markets.
All of this is possible thanks to a strong risk management, as explained before by José María Castillo. We know what we can do, which are our capabilities, and what we can sign with a client. We don't feel shame refusing contracts if the conditions are not aligned with our risk profile and our capacities. About diversification, Cobra IS flow business is very diversified, but how? You saw in previous slides that Cobra IS is very diversified in activities. We have a wide portfolio of them. But not only in activities, Cobra IS is also diversified in clients and contracts. Those EUR 4 billion are done through more than 7,000 contracts. These are the number of actual ongoing contracts, I mean, contracts with revenue in the 12 months ending September 2023. And most of them below EUR 1 million, at 78%.
Doing some maths, EUR 4 billion in 7,000, 7,000 contracts gives you an average of EUR 600,000. And also, diversification in clients. These 7,000 contracts are done for more than 1,300 different clients, in which the top 10 only accounts the 19% of the revenues, around EUR 800 million. And who is included in this top 10? Telefónica, our historical client in communications. We are working with them in the last 40 years in countries like Spain, Colombia, Peru, Argentina, Chile, or Germany. Enel Endesa, another example of recurrency and stability, also working for them during 40 years, working in Spain, the northwest of Italy, Peru, Chile, or Argentina. Adif, the public operator of the railways in Spain, also working for them for at least more than 30 years.
Red Eléctrica, the operator of the transmission grids in Spain, also a very long-term relationship. But not only these, long-term relationship clients, we have also newcomers, like, for example, Amazon, who we started working for them 5 years ago, doing the installations of a logistic terminal in Toledo, in the south of Madrid. And for now, we are working in data centers in Spain or Germany. Or GlasfaserPlus , one of the new German utilities for optic fiber. About the type of clients, the balance is 66 private, 34 public. Below that, the split in public, in administrations and public companies, is not far from 50 each, as it is also in the split in the privates when you split them in service and manufacturing companies. Next. Recurring and predictable performance.
Insisting in this, in the recurrence and the predictable performance of our flow business, these two concepts are key to understand our activities. I mentioned at the beginning of the presentation that our flow business includes long-term service contracts that allow us to have certain visibility in the future performance of our activities. Well, this kind of contracts represents about 45% of the flow business revenues. And what about the short term? What bring us that visibility? The relationship with our clients. As I mentioned before, some of them working with us for the last 40 years. So they trust us, and that allow us to have a continuous activity with them.
Okay, now that you know, as explained before, that we divide our activities in three groups, networks, facilities, and control systems, in the following slides, we are going to deep dive in each one. Starting with networks. Remember, 32% of the LTM revenues? They are mainly long-term service, maintenance, and installation contracts. Our main work in these activities are related with distribution networks, where we maintain them and the related installations, including live-line works . This mean works in the transmission line without disconnected from the grid. In distribution, we are present into the different works that need to be done by a utility, from the resolution of a problem of unavailability of a trench of a line, to connect a home to the distribution network.
Gas, water networks, where we maintain and develop related works and installations in the distribution of water and gas, including the pipeline network of a city, and the maintenance of big pipelines, like the one between Spain and Morocco, for the transport of gas that we have been maintaining in the last 25 years. Communication networks, where we have the capacity to do the whole process, from the installation of the optic fiber network in a city, bring it to the home, and go inside the home, finishing the installation with a router of the final client of the company. And public lighting, where we maintain the public lighting of the cities for the municipalities, and where we try to improve their efficiency.
These kind of contracts, the public lighting, used to have a duration of 10 years, and also sometimes they include a bonus on energy savings, as we have to improve the energy efficiency of the lighting. Most of these activities are done in critical infrastructures of a country. This means that the clients looks for stability in their suppliers, trying to not to change them if the quality of the service match their requirements. Next, please. Some examples of what I have already explained. In the distribution networks, we have the maintenance contract we have with Endesa, the Spanish subsidiary of Enel, for the last 40 years, covering different areas of Spain: Catalonia, Andalusia, Baleares, and the Canary Islands. Our relationship with Endesa or Enel doesn't finish in Spain. We are their partners in distribution in many other countries in Latin or in Europe.
In this distribution networks, Cobra has this kind of service contracts in 15 countries, mainly on Europe, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Italy or Netherlands, and Latin, Mexico, Panama, Peru, Brazil, Chile, or Argentina. In all these countries, we are doing an average of 42,000 breakdowns and 44,000 operations per month with around 5,000 employees. In public lighting, our main contract, and the bigger you can find in Spain, is the maintenance of the lighting of the city of Madrid. This contract, in two different phases, is being provided for more than 10 years, giving us reference to reach similar contracts in other regions and cities all around the Europe of Spain.
In communications, that we are showing you the FTTH, fiber to the home, contract with Telefónica in Spain, another very long-term contract, and an example of our capacity to adapt ourselves to the change of markets. We start working with Telefónica in the 1970s, with copper lines, changing to optic fiber in the 2000s, being Cobra the responsible of the installation of about the 35% of the optic fiber network in Spain, a country where more than 90% of the land is covered with optic fiber. As a rough number, we estimate that we have installed around 28 million kilometers of optic fiber around the world since we started. Actually, we are working with communications in 10 countries between Europe and Latin. After this explanation, and before going to facilities, we will show you a short video with an example of our works in distribution networks.
This video is from a rehabilitation of a trench of a transmission line in Brazil, an important geography to our business, where distribution contracts are growing rapidly. This work were done for ISA CTEEP , an important operator in the country, and the project consisted in the rehabilitation of 10 kilometers of transmission in a very complicated area located in a natural park, where we did big efforts to secure the environment, using, for example, helicopters to transport people and materials, rather than use conventional transport to not to deforest the land. The last sentence of the video, this was written in Portuguese, sorry. But it was saying 3 key things for us: we finished the project in time, with quality, and without accidents. Okay, after this video, I will move to facilities.
These activities represents the 40% of the flow business revenues, and these contracts are more related to works and maintenance of installations. As facilities, we find electrical installations and maintenance, including the installations in different sectors and areas, like buildings, data centers, factories, et cetera, and the construction and maintenance of substations. Mechanical installations and maintenance, and these activities are related to the mechanical part of the installations of a building, factory, including cooling, air conditioning, or fire protection. Mechanical assemblies, in this category, we include works related to the installation of different parts of a big project. For example, the installation of a new boiler in a combined cycle plant, or the works we could do in the constructions of ships by Navantia.
Railways installations, this category includes the catenary and all the electrical parts of electrified railways, and works related to the signaling and security systems of the railways. Regarding the security systems, it is important to remark that we are finishing the development of our own ERTMS, the European Train Control System, that will go to testing phase pretty soon. Some examples of projects in facilities. We have, in the electrical installations, the execution of the substations of Campos and Matallana in Spain. These substations will serve as the evacuation of 8 photovoltaic plants with a total capacity of 650 MW, including a short range of transmission to take the power generated by those plants to our Red Eléctrica substation.
Our experience with substations allow us to work in many different countries, like Mexico, where we are working in the substations of the Tren Maya or in the Emirates. But also, we can use this knowledge to make these installations in our EPCs of transmission, as they could include not only the line, but also the substations, or in the EPCs of renewable energy, to do the evacuation of the power for our own developments. In mechanical installations, we have the mechanical installations of the St. Regis Kanai hotels in Cancún, Mexico. These projects includes all the installation of the air conditioning and cooling systems of the resorts, as well as the installation of the fire protection system. This is a typical example of the projects that Cobra IS develop in facilities.
In this case, this is a medium-sized project without a long-term duration, but with our experience in this kind of projects, we can have certain recurrence in time, as we have done this kind of works in many hotels in the Caribbean coast, as well as in Spain or countries like the Ivory Coast. And in railways, we have the installation of the overhead lines for the high-speed trains in Madrid. Cobra IS has been a relevant actor in the construction of the high-speed network in Spain, starting in the nineties, without a stop. And not only we make the installation of these overhead lines or catenary, we also are the responsible of the maintenance of these overhead lines around Spain, with a contract that started in 2015. Next slide, please.
In control systems, we are mainly integrators of technologies in service of the control of the traffic, the tunnels, signaling, and security. This means that we develop the software that allows the control of all the different systems to warrant the proper and secure functioning of the traffic in a city, a highway, or a tunnel. Also, these activities include works of installation of toll systems in a PPP highway, or ticketing systems in bus, tram, and metro networks, and their operation, including the payment method with integration with a payment platform. Last, but not least important, the works we do for the integration of the different services needed to run a smart city, including activities of the other groups, like lighting, et cetera. In control systems, we can find long-term service contracts.
The operation of the traffic of a city, for example, in some of them in Spain, we have been doing the operation of the traffic for the last 40 years, like Valencia. But also specific projects for the installations of the ITS of a tunnel. These specific projects also used to have a certain period of time for the operation and/or maintenance. Next, please. After giving you, I hope, a more clear visibility of our control systems, in this line, you can find some examples of these contracts. For example, the maintenance and operation of the M-30. We've been doing this maintenance and operation for the last 25 years, but also, during the last 15 years, after the big remodeling that suffered the M-30, that is the first ring of Madrid, including the constructions of 30 kilometers of tunnels.
In this contract, we are responsible for the management of the traffic, including the assistance of the different emergencies that can occur in a road of these characteristics, with more than 1.5 million vehicles driving every day through it. The other example is the ticketing installations of the light train in Guadalajara, in Mexico. In this contract, we are in charge of the installation of the control center, the collection center, and all the infrastructure needed for the ticketing in stations, around 30, and in the trains. This contract also includes the operation and maintenance of the systems and operation of the collection and deposits of securities. The last example of these control systems is the control system of a tunnel, and will be explained with the following video related to the works we are doing in the WestConnex tunnels in Sydney, Australia.
In this project, we are doing the installations of the ITS, that is the intelligent transport system, and the integrated management system of the tunnels with SIDERA. And what is SIDERA? SIDERA is a software developed by SICE, one of our subgroups, that offers a comprehensive solution for the centralized management of this ITS and tunnels based on each project requirements. So the SIDERA may vary from one project to another, based on the what is needed in that project. SIDERA currently manage all the ITS equipment of over 2,500 kilometers of open roads and over 300 kilometers of tunnels. This is another example of recurrence and trust of our clients.
We make the installations of the software of the SIDERA, of the first tunnel done in the WestConnex, being a subcontractor of the JV, responsible of the construction of the project, and the final client decide to recommend us to the other works of construction of the different tunnels that come are included in the WestConnex. So please, the video.
Well, this is a completely new project. It's one thing to dig the tunnels. Big challenge there. We all know about that. We've lived it. Tunnel isn't finished until all of this kit works. The safety, the lighting, the fire systems, the air management, everything has to work before we can open the tunnel.
The intention of this test facility is really to bring in every TIT and TOB device that we've got in the tunnel. So we've got at least 17,000 I/Os, what we call in this industry. So for me, it's all about the interfacing and bringing all of this equipment together. So the more equipment we can bring in and actually test of every type of device, it's really important to hook that up and try to resolve any technical issues upfront, early, before we actually hit on site.
Well, you can imagine, you plug something in here, and you plug something in over there. If it doesn't work, you go to this place, see why not, go to that place, see why not. When you're in a tunnel, there could be a kilometer between those two bits of kit. If something doesn't work, how do you find where the error is? How do you fix it? So being able to do all of this and end-to-end testing from cameras through to phones, through the control center, through the gear that will be at the control system at MCC is fantastically good.
A big focus is really for the operator, part of his vision, so actually looking at the cameras. If there's an incident down in the tunnel, those automatic cameras will actually sense that there's an incident there, whether it's a broken car or someone going across the road. It will detect it. The operator will straight away see that on his control desk, and then from there, he'll be able to manage that incident, you know, in a safe manner. So there's approximately 22 different types of incidents that have been defined. We've got about 696 cameras to give vision throughout the whole tunnel for the operators to manage and control the incidents. Historically, projects like this, we've never really brought equipment together into a facility like this and tested it before.
This is, for me, a benchmark, and I'm quite proud of the efforts the team have actually come together and bring this together.
Okay, after the video, at least a summary of conclusions that we can take from our flow business activities. First, deeply rooted local presence based on more than 80 years of expertise. Sorry. We are quite old in this business, but we are old in age, not in mind. We keep on working to grow our business and increase our profitability. This expertise allow us to grow in different markets, carrying with us the know-how we got in all this experience. And also, the experience we have in some countries, as I mentioned before, allow us to say we are locals. We are proud of being considered Peruvians, Mexicans, or Brazilians. Significant growth prospects. There is a great tailwind around electrification.
This not only means a lot of work in the construction of the big infrastructures, but there is also a great opportunity for all the auxiliary works around those infrastructures and their maintenance. Recurring and predictable revenue stream. Thanks to our great diversification in clients, more than 1,300, and in contracts, more than 7,000, with an important portion of them, 45%, that are long-term service contracts, and a long-term relationship with our clients, working for them, in some cases, for more than 40 years. Industry-leading margin. We are solid doing flow business, and thanks to our risk management and the looking for the excellence and quality of the service we provide, we could be considered one of the best or the best-in-class in flow business activities. Tailor-made offering, technological and innovation excellence.
We have the ability to adapt ourselves to the change of markets. That's the main reason on being in this work during 80 years, including the last technologies in our work to reach the quality required by our clients and the excellence in our services. High people retention. You know that these, these activities are very intensive in workforce. 30,000 people of our 42,000 employees work in flow business. Retention of people is complicated, but not impossible. Of course, like other companies, we suffer rotation, but we can say that the key people to carry on these activities feel Cobra IS as their own company, and they work for, of course, their own benefit, but also the benefit of the company and the benefit of our shareholders.
Okay, after this, I will give the floor to Raúl Llamazares, the CEO of Intecsa Industrial, to explain to you the EPC projects.
Good morning. My name is Raúl Llamazares, CEO of Intecsa Industrial, one of the subsidiaries of the Cobra IS. I've been told that I should mention my experience in EPC contracts, so I've been working more than 30 years in this market, the last 23 in our group, executing projects all around the world. For example, Mexico, Costa Rica, Peru, in Latin America, Spain and Ireland and Europe, the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, and Uzbekistan in Asia, and Morocco, Algeria, and Egypt in Africa. It's for me a pleasure to be here today to talk to you about EPC business in our group. Over the next 10 slides, I'll show you that we have decades of track record successfully delivering industrial complex projects.
We are living an extraordinary clean energy production expansion, and Cobra IS is uniquely placed to capitalize on this energy transition because our expertise and track record, our uncompromising procedures, and our outstanding management team and employees. Next, please. First, since I don't know if all of you are familiar with the EPC term, allow me a very brief description of what an EPC contract is. EPC is an acronym that stands for engineering, procurement, and construction, the main three phases to build an industrial plant. In the engineering phase, all the technical disciplines work together to produce the optimal design that strikes a balance between budget and efficiency. Procurement involves purchasing, inspection, and transportation of all the material and equipment specified during engineering and required for construction.
Finally, during construction, the facility is built in accordance with drawings and specifications produced during the engineering, with the purchased material and equipment, and ensuring that all the activities are performed safely and accurately. An EPC contractor works under a single contract with a project owner, executing all project phases from start to finish. To complete a capital project and assumes the risk of being responsible for completing a project with a specific scope of work, fulfilling a quality standards and technical specifications in a fixed period of time, and achieving a required performance specifications, such as net megawatts in a power generation plant, proven through the performance and reliability test carried out once the facility has been built. Now, going what this slide shows.
In 2021, our backlog in EPC contract was EUR 4 billion, which represented, at that time, 48% of the total backlog of the group. At the end of last September, the backlog was almost EUR 10 billion, around 2.5 times larger. This EUR 10 billion represent exactly 67% of the total backlog of the group. To complete this information, let you know that these figures don't include another 2 offshore energy converter platforms that the group is going to build and install in the North Sea, which will mean another additional EUR 2.7 billion. Therefore, our present EPC contract backlog exceeds EUR 12 billion. The comparison of this backlog with the revenue from EPC contracts in the last 12 months, that has been EUR 2.1 billion, gives an idea of its dimension.
Cobra IS not only has one arm to approach EPC contracts. There are 8 subsidiaries of the group that have been or are involved in EPC contracts in different sectors. So imagine Cobra as an octopus with 8 arms, with a common head. This common head is our risk policy. I'll talk about it later. Well, the name of the arms are CME Brasil, Dragados Offshore, Intecsa Industrial, Makiber, Cobra, CME, SEMI, and Maetel. This vast array of companies has executed contracts in 28 countries and has approximately 10,000 employees directly involved in EPC contracts execution. On the right-hand side, or on the right-hand side, you can see the multiple sectors where Cobra has been and is active in EPC projects. Renewable power plants in many of its different varieties, such as wind, solar, hydroelectric, geothermal, biomass, and in the near future, biomethane.
Power transmission lines and substations, water facilities, both desalination and water treatment plants, conventional power plants, such as open cycle, combined cycle, and cogeneration plants, and other sectors such as waste treatment plants, fertilizers production plants, oil and gas, LNG, petrochemical, and mobility. Next, please. Cobra IS has been a first mover in renewable energies, and this sector will be a huge market in the years to come. According to the International Energy Agency's Net Zero Emissions Scenario by 2050, and as you can see on the slide, there will be an extremely ambitious transformation of the global energy system. The path to net zero means a huge decline in the use of fossil fuels and requires immediate and massive deployment of all available, clean, and efficient energy technologies, and makes the twenties and the next two decades a period of massive clean energy expansion.
Instead of fossil fuels, the energy sector is based largely on renewable energy. More than two-thirds of total energy supply in 2050 is from wind, solar, bioenergy, geothermal, and hydro energy, being solar the largest source. According to a recent International Energy Agency's report, the necessary worldwide CapEx to build clean energy generation facilities will be $1.6 trillion per year, which means triple the CapEx used in 2022. On the other hand, worldwide CapEx needed to install or retrofit existing transmission and distribution lines will be $600 million per year, which means double the CapEx used in 2022. In this scenario, and it's been in the past, Cobra IS will be a very significant player to install new renewable capacities in the years to come.
Some data about our contribution so far are: more than 100 photovoltaic plants built totaling almost 6 GW, 13 thermosolar plants built totaling 730 MW, around 90 onshore wind farms built totaling more than 2.8 GW, and close to 30,000 km of transmission lines installed in Brazil. Cobra is present in the transmission lines market in Brazil since 2002, being one of the main contractors and developers in the country. We have developed 39 transmission projects with a total length of 20,400 km, with a total CapEx of EUR 2.4 billion. Another close to 9,000 km has been installed for others. Trying to replicate this business in other countries, we are now looking, for example, towards Australia, the, the sexy Australia. This is not combined cycles; this is transmission lines.
A country with huge needs of transmission lines to transport the power from renewable, new renewable power production plants to where it is consumed. As a first step, recently, we have been awarded the design, construction, operation, and maintenance of 217 km of transmission lines and one 500-kilovolt substation in New South Wales. We hope that the contract will be signed shortly. Finally, Cobra has been an early mover in the HVDC, high voltage direct current, market, with an offshore energy converter platform in the North Sea. As a result of the present different conflicts in the world, some European countries are urgently looking for energy sources that make them less dependent on foreign countries. One of them, the offshore wind.
An investment in offshore wind farms are associated to investment in HVDC platforms, as you will see later in the next presentation. To be a first mover in a market like this, with a lot of expected investments and with reduced competence, will give us the opportunity to get very good margins in the coming years. Next, please. This slide shows the last 12-month revenue and the present backlog, both by sectors and by geographical areas. By sectors, as you can see in the pie chart above on the right, renewables contribution to the last 12 months' revenue has been 47% of the EUR 2.1 billion, followed by power transmission with 29%, other sectors with 15%, conventional power plants with 7%, and water facilities with 2%.
In our almost EUR 10 billion backlog, renewable energy represents 66%, followed by power transmission with 16%, water facilities with 7%, other sectors with 6%, and conventional power plants with 4%. Renewables is clearly the sector that is driving our EPC business. By geographical areas, if you look at the pie chart on the bottom right, you can see that in the last twelve months' revenue, Central and South America has reached 53%, followed by Spain with 25%. Europe excluding Spain with 12%, and the rest of the world, 10%. In our backlog, the scenario is different. Europe excluding Spain represents 55%, followed by Central and South America with 27%, Spain, 14%, and the rest of the world, 3%. Clearly, the present leadership of Central and South America in our revenue will change to Europe in the coming years.
Next, please. Regarding Cobra IS factors that we think contribute to a successful completion of an industrial facility, I would like to highlight the following. Number one, more than 50 years of experience of global reach and local knowledge. Although in the EPC market, we can cover the 5 continents, there are countries in which we are permanently established, and therefore, we have local capabilities. And if not, we will join hands with other companies that may have them. Number two, risk mitigation. Here, the key word is selectivity. It's not the first time that you hear this word today, and it's gonna be it's not going to be the last, I'm afraid. We are extremely careful with the selection of the opportunities that we decide to pursue.
Before the contract signing, we enter into detailed contract clauses negotiations with the client, and it's also the time to consider the possibility of an appropriate partnership. Number 3, highly experienced teams. Due to our many years of projects execution, we have very experienced teams, and specifically in the role of project director, which we consider a key figure to execute an EPC contract. Anyhow, there is a continuous follow-up of the projects under execution by the top management of every company. Number 4, operational excellence. We can develop the engineering with our own in-house capabilities or count on outsourced engineering skills, but closely monitored. The same happens with the construction capabilities. All the procurement, as well as all the project control activities, are carried out by our own staff. Number 5, excellence of procurement.
We have a worldwide procurement network and diversification of suppliers with a close expediting and a detailed inspection. In a medium-sized project, could be more than 60 purchase orders of electromechanical equipment and material, whose value can reach the 50% of the project budget. We purchase from simple bolts and nuts to reactors or turbines that weigh more than 500 tons, which is the weight of more than 300 cars. Number six, tight project control. In order to guarantee the completion of a project within the time established in the contract and in our budget, continuous monitoring of the critical path, costs, and cash flow is essential, as well as analyzing, at all times, situations that may represent a risk and implement the necessary mitigation measures. Next, please.
We currently have 88 projects in execution, grouped into 50 medium and large projects with a value above EUR 50 million, and 38 small projects with value below EUR 50 million. The breakdown by sector of the projects we are executing is: 34 projects on renewable power plants, 19 projects are transmission lines, 15 projects of water facilities, 13 projects of other sectors, 4 projects are oil and gas plants, and 3 projects are conventional power plants. As you have seen, it's important to point out that Cobra has a very high diversification in its EPC contracts, either by sector, by regions, and by size of the projects, with a clear trend in the future towards more than 60% of revenue coming from renewables and around 70% coming from Europe, including Spain.
Now, let me tell you, how do we go about successfully selecting and executing projects? This is the Cobra's nuance or secret recipe, so to speak. The first step and the first decision to make at every subsidiary level is bid or not bid. We strongly think that an essential condition to be able to complete a project successfully, is to do a very detailed and complete job during the bidding stage. This requires many resources and is costly, so it is necessary to be selective with the invitations to bid, which we want to accept. Some key factors to consider before making these decisions are: of course, the client, if we have previous experiences or not, if it's an industrial profile, what is its solvency and what warranty of payment they can provide?
Country, if we are working or we have worked there, or it's a new country, what is the social and the political stability, etc. Of course, what is the scope, and hence, what is the size of the project? ... What is the required technology? Three important questions on this matter: Is it a client or it's a contractor selection? It's a well-known technology or it's a new technology? And what's the responsibility of the EPC contractor in this regard? Very important, the main contractual terms. To be sure that they are not trespassing our red lines. For instance, maximum liability, the LDs cap, indirect damages or loss of profit, and what are the required bank warranties, and what is the applicable law?
Consider if it's appropriate, a partnership with another company that could add value to the project execution, and the form of this partnership: joint venture, consortium, or even nominated subcontractors. If the final decision is bid, the bidding process begins, and it is our job that can last from 3-9 months, or even more, depending on the scope of the project. After a carefully tender recommendation analysis, a tailor-made works start with the target of: evaluate the necessary engineering and project management man-hours, issue the minimal equipment technical specifications to get equipment quotations, issue a minimal material bill of quantities to get material quotations and construction subcontractors quotations, develop a detailed schedule and cost analysis, make a detailed risk analysis and establish mitigation actions, and finally, conclude a partnership agreement if there is a partner.
I would like to highlight again that a good bidding work is crucial to have a chance of successfully complete an EPC project. A bad and poor work during bidding time warrants a failure, either because it's not a competitive bid, and therefore, the offer is not considered by the client, or because being awarded, the execution is unsuccessful for sure. Once the bidding phase is in advanced stage, project offers of more than EUR 50 million must pass the filter of Cobra's Risk Committee, which is chaired by José María Castillo. This limit is lowered to EUR 10 million if there is no previous experience in the country in which the offer is made. With the approval of this committee, the subsidiary can deliver the offer, unless the offer is more than EUR 80 million, in which case it must pass a new filter.
This additional filter is the VINCI's Risk Committee, chaired by the President and the CEO of the group. Only once the approval of this committee has been obtained, the subsidiary can proceed with the delivery of the offer to the client. During the pure execution stage of the project, and after issuing the tailor-made project execution plan, we monitor on monthly basis the progress of the project. In case of any significant delay, we are forced to establish catch-up plans. As I said before, to warranty the completion of a project within the delivery time stated in the contract and in the budget carried out by us, a continuous monitoring of the critical path, cost, and cash flow is essential, as well as analyzing, at all times, new situations that may represent a risk and implement the necessary mitigation measures.
At this point, I'm going to tell you a case in which is demonstrated that our serenity and selectivity are not just words, but rather facts. And this is not a case in which we declined to bid, but it's a case in which we declined to sign a contract. In December 2018, we delivered an EPC offer, along with some terms agreement, to convert an existing open-cycle power plant in Colombia to a combined cycle. Project size, around $200 million. Three months later, in March 2019, we were nominated as a preferred bidder. Even in June 2019, we were awarded with an early works to start engineering, while we were negotiating the contract clauses of the EPC contract.
The client, together with its advisor law firm from New York, tried to impose contractual terms and conditions that unduly put risk on us. One of them was that the client didn't accept force majeure cases outside Colombia to have the right to an extension of time in the contractual time for completion. After months of hard negotiations, in September 2018, we didn't accept the client conditions and declined to sign the contract, contract in which we were very keen interested at that time. Some weeks after, the contract was awarded to another EPC contractor, by the way, Spanish, who accepted all the client conditions that we had rejected. And all of you know what happened in 2020 with the COVID pandemic. Imagine the delay in the delivery time of all the equipment and materials, most which had to be manufactured outside Colombia.
At present, 4 years later, with 2 years of delay, the project is not totally finished, and the contractor is claiming, and successfully, for the right of an extension of time, which is not in the contract, since force majeure cases outside Colombia were not recognized in the contract for that. Next, please. In the next 3 slides, I'm showing some of the most recent EPC contracts, some of them still in execution stage. For renewable power plants, top left, you can see a biomass power plant built by Cobra in Japan. To its right, a photovoltaic plant built by Cobra in Spain. Bottom left, an offshore high-voltage direct current connection built by Dragados Offshore in Spain and transported to German North Sea. Bottom right, a wind farm built by SEMI in Chile. Next, please. Transmission lines projects, La Niña in Peru, 354 kilometers installed by Cobra.
Redenor in Chile, 273 km installed by Cobra. Pampa in Brazil, 326 km installed by SEMI. Chimarrão in Brazil, 1,150 km installed by Cobra and SEMI. Next. An example of water facilities is the Taboada Wastewater Treatment Plant that Cobra has built in Peru. Examples of conventional power plants are the 1,000 MW combined cycle power plant that Intecsa Industrial is building in Talimarjan, in Uzbekistan, and the 870 MW combined cycle power plant that Cobra is building in Belgium. Finally, and in the mobility sector, you can see below on the right, the picture of the Fehmarn Tunnel. 18 km of 40 m below the surface of the Baltic Sea tunnel for road vehicles, and for trains between Germany and Denmark.
The scope of work of SICE and Cobra is electromechanical installations and instrumentation and control systems. Next, please. To conclude my presentation, some key takeaways about Cobra IS in the EPC world. We have understanding track record to execute large and complex EPC projects worldwide. We are a first mover in several markets, thanks to our technical expertise and innovation, which is a considerable advantage. We are very well positioned to be a, an important player in the energy transition. We carry out an operational risk management to execute all projects with known and measured risks. At present, we have, as José María said, an historical record backlog that is not the result of an unbounded ambition of getting contract at all costs. On the contrary, this backlog has been the result of our visibility and has been achieved without losing in any way our serenity and selectivity.
Finally, the last takeaway, seasoned management teams and a skilled workforce. This is the last in the list, but likely the most important. Our people are our most relevant asset. Their knowledge, combined experience, enthusiasm, and entrepreneurial spirit, have allowed Cobra IS and its subsidiaries to become a global renowned contractor brand. That's all. Thank you very much. I pass the word to the next speakers, Pedro Ascorbe and Cristina Sanz, President and CEO of Dragados Offshore. So, are you ready, Cristina?
Ready. Ready to go.
Let's go.
Hello, good morning, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Cristina Sanz. I am the Dragados Offshore Vice President of Operations. I'm working in Dragados Offshore since 2003.
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Pedro Ascorbe, and I am the Dragados Offshore President. I am working in Dragados Offshore since 1998. It is a pleasure for us to share a few minutes with you today during our presentation of Dragados Offshore and its activities. Dragados Offshore started its operations in 1972, and since then, we have grown in the sector of the oil and gas and wind offshore industry. Dragados Offshore is a reference EPC contractor with a solid track record, ensuring our clients that the projects will be successfully planned, executed, and delivered.
Our operations are centralized in Spain and in Mexico. Our logo slogan is, "Building excellence worldwide." Excellence means to deliver with the right product, right time, right budget, and always with safety first, at full satisfaction of our clients.
As a consequence of the award in consortium with Siemens Energy of 9 HVDC offshore wind platforms to be delivered to the German and Dutch sectors since-
Next slide, check. Can move?
Next slide.
Since 2022-2023, there has been a drastic shift from offshore oil and gas to renewables. The contracted amount per year has increased from 0.5-0.7 to 3.0-3.5, which is approx 500% increase. The estimated revenue will increase from an average of EUR 0.2 billion in 2020-2023, up to EUR 1 billion in 2024-2029. Again, approx 500% increase. We will expect to maintain our estimated operating margin, which used to be double-digit, under a constant flow of profitable growth. In total, so far, almost 14 GW and more than EUR 8 billion our share. The breakdown by client is, for TenneT, DolWin6, 0.9 GW, and handed over two months ago to TenneT, and now in commercial operation.
BorWin5, 0.9 GW, awarded in June 2019, and currently under construction in Cádiz. LanWin2, LanWin3, and LanWin4, 2 GW each, awarded in June 2023. DolWin6 and BorWin5 were awarded before Cobra acquisition by VINCI. After TenneT, for Amprion. BorWin4 and DolWin4, 0.9 GW each, awarded in July 2022. BalWin1 and BalWin2 , GW, 2 GW each, awarded in February 2023. In summary, and this is very important for us, workload and slots until 2031, and approx EUR 1 billion revenue per year. Sincerely, Cristina and I have never seen this in our many years of experience in Dragados Offshore. But the future, the future is even more promising, exciting, and with plenty of good opportunities, with more than 60 GW already identified and a sustained flow until 2040.
Target schedule by country are so far: Germany and the Netherlands, 22 units of 2 GW from 2025 to 2040 for TenneT, Amprion, and 50Hertz. The U.K., 7 units of 1.8 GW to be tendered in 2024 for National Grid. France, 4 units of 2 GW to be tendered in 2024 for RTE. There is also a very promising potential expansion to the U.S., capitalizing our Mexican yard for execution. Having said this, and as José María Castillo has indicated, we will not compromise our future with risky projects. We have enough profitable work to execute the next 10 years.
To perform all these current and future challenges, as a referring contractor, we have numerous market opportunities. One of few players worldwide, since the competition is quite limited. Pricing power during contract negotiation. Very important, as mentioning before by José María, the risk processes. We apply mitigation measures and flexibility, efficiency by repetition, learning curve, and working by phases, and long-standing partnership with Siemens Energy. Next, next slide, please. So, as Pedro mentioned before, we have workload and visibility until at least 2031. This is, as you can imagine, very, very important. To face this workload and slot until 2031, Dragados Offshore currently has 4 yards in operation, 2 in Spain and 2 in Mexico. This give us an essential competitive edge in respect to our competitors. In Spain, we have Cádiz Yard. That is where Dragados Offshore headquarters are located.
The Cádiz, the Cádiz Yard is the largest offshore construction yard in Europe, and has more than 50 hectares and 580-meters-long quay. Future expansion will add approximately 23 additional hectares. The units, DolWin6, BorWin5, DolWin4, BorWin4, BalWin1, BalWin2, and LanWin4, will be built in Cádiz. In Algeciras, this is a future expansion in Spain for additional integration capacity to deliver 2 GW HVDC platforms. It has 45 hectares and 260-meters-long quay. The units, LanWin2 and BalWin3, will be integrated in Algeciras. In Mexico, we have two yards: Tampico Yard and Altamira Yard. Tampico with 35 hectare and two long main quay, and Altamira Yard with 40 hectares and one quay. Our facilities in Mexico are currently complementing the operation in Cádiz with the fabrication of different offshore components.
In the US, indications are that in the very near future, the HVDC offshore wind industry will also grow, like in Europe. With our facilities in Mexico, we cannot be better positioned to face this market. Next slide. Thank you. The objective of an HVDC platform is to increase the voltage and convert the electricity received from the wind turbines, from alternating current, AC, to direct current, DC, to reduce losses during the transmission from offshore to onshore. When the offshore distance between the wind farm and the onshore station is more than 80 kilometers approx, the investment in conversion and HVDC technology is economically justified. If the distance is less than 80 kilometers, then the HVAC technology, without conversion, and therefore more economical than the HVDC, is the right solution.
The offshore grid is crucial for ensuring the energy supply to Central Europe. The offshore converter station is the heart and will transform and convert the energy generated by the offshore wind turbines from 65 kilovolts high voltage AC to 525 kilovolts high voltage DC, to minimize energy losses when the electricity is transmitted to onshore via sub-sea cable. In the onshore converter station, the DC current will be reconverted to AC current, and finally injected to the onshore network. The technology ensure an efficient HVDC transmission. Dragados Offshore scope of work includes all the engineering of the complete platform, including all the phases: concept, basis, and detail design, procurement, construction, transport, offshore installation, trial run, and startup of the facility.
We'll highlight that exclusive agreements are in place with the company Allseas to perform the transportation and the installation of the units BorWin5, DolWin4, BorWin4, BalWin1, and BalWin2. For this, we will use the Pioneer Spirit, and main features for this installation, the unit that is one of a kind vessel, are: the total length, 477 meters, beam 124 meters, draft from 12 meters to 27 meters, and total lifting capacity, 48,000 tons. The 2 GW platform weights and dimensions are the following ones. Weight, the platform, 27,000 tons. The jacket, 13,000 tons. For your reference, times four Eiffel Tower, that has a total weight of 10,000 tons. In dimension, the module is bigger than football field, with 100 meters times 77 meters, and 10 floors with a total height of 41 meters.
Regarding the workload, 2 GW platforms require approximately 3,000 workers and 2 million productive man-hours. For your reference, one of these 2 GW platforms has power enough to feed a city of 2 million people.
Finally, we would like to show you a short video of about 3 minutes of the DolWin6 project, which was handed over to TenneT two months ago... and which is now in commercial operation. And as such, with 0.9 GW feeding approx 1 million people with electricity, built in Cádiz by Dragados Offshore.
We indicate you the following dates associated to this project, DolWin6. The contract was awarded in August 2017. Offshore installation in August 2022. Full production and handover to TenneT in September 2023. Beside the COVID, the project was concluded on a safety, on a schedule, meeting all the milestone, and a full satisfaction of the client and all the parties.
We really hope you like the video. Thank you. The next presentation will be carried out by our colleague, Bautista García, who has come from Peru to present all of you the Talara project. Thank you.
Hello to all of you. My name is Bautista García. I have been working in Cobra for more than 20 years. I have been responsible for a large EPC project for many years in different position, like, construction manager, site manager, project manager, and delegate, delegado. Currently, I am the operation head of Industrial Plant and Energy from Cobra. The Talara Refinery project is a typical EPC project, like is explained with my colleague, Raúl Llamazares. It's a country, Peru, we know perfectly. It's a proposal for Petroperú. We know that company also, and we thought it was a good opportunity for us after studying all the documentation.
We do not have to bid for it, it project, in other countries, but, we are available to do that in, in Peru because we know perfectly this, this country. And we have all the team available to, at that time, to manage this project, okay? By the way of summary, the scope of the main work is as follows: hydrogen and nitrogen production plant, electricity generation and steam generation system for refinery process, sulfuric acid production and storage plant, water desalination and water distribution system, seawater collection system and refinery water discharge system, construction of different buildings and facilities for the operation of the refinery. The scope of the project consists, of a detailed engineering, procurement, and construction, in EPC, of the auxiliary units and complementary works for the Talara Refinery, property of Petroperú. Okay?
The Talara Refinery is located in the north of, coast of Peru, very close to Ecuador, in the city of Talara, province of Talara. Approximately, it's 1,100 kilometers by road from the capital of Peru, Lima. The overall, refinery project objectives are to have a crude oil processing or refinery capacity of up to 95,000, barrels per day, operation per day. This refinery produce a wide range of products, okay? Has a broad and market environment and friendliness feature of achieving compliance with the sulfur level of the, of the gasoline, in, in, in the produce according to Peruvian regulation and also with Euro 6 fuel quality standards, okay? With low capacity of, fuel.
We made a strategy of contracting the units and construction in package, which remove a lot of risk with in our project, with by creating 6 different project or 6 different package, okay, within an overall project of this magnitude, okay? This decrease also very to match our risk in the execution of the project. The original contract is among we signed this among was $937 million. We have signed 12 different amendments of the contract, with extension of the economic contract amounts and execution time to a different circumstance we have. The most important, the COVID-19 pandemic and the Ukrainian war. At this moment, is the total amount of the contract is around $1,090 million.
The gross margin currently projected at the end of the project is double-digit. The execution period of the project in the beginning is 32 months, and has now increasing around one year more for the issues that we have for Ukraine and the COVID-19. This, well, this has been all from my side in Talara. Right now, I mean, it's a lunch break time. Thank you so much.
... Okay. We're going to begin with the second part of the meeting. We are trying to explain in some words and some slides what is our ambition in the renewable energy market. I am going to introduce a couple of slides, and after that, José Antonio Fernández, that is the head of renewable energy here in Cobra IS, is going to develop better all our strategy. Next slide, please. As I said you before, we are not rookies in this activity. In this business, we began 25 years ago in Spain, doing some solar thermosolar plants and some wind farms that the majority of them were sold or put in the market in an IPO years ago.
These projects were very successful for us, including a regulation change that happened, I don't know, about in 2007, 2008, 2010. There was some change in regulatory prices, and we must detract some of the value of our assets. Even with all of this, the projects were very satisfied, were a success. We stop a little bit because we smelled that money in this business was running out, and we stopped a little bit our development in energy projects, in renewable energy projects. We do again several years ago, and now we are intensifying this investment because we think that we could do very good projects for VINCI and consolidate these assets in the long term.
Next slide, please. Why we think all of this five years ago, six years ago, when we rebuilt our capacity to develop projects? Because all the inputs that we received that this is going to be a buoyant market. Okay? Then, you know that everyone is talking for first time in many years, we are in a market that is not dependent of the demand. Okay? We always are usually in markets when the power is in the demand side, and if it is enough demand, our business growth.
But in this case, it's something that is out of the demand, is, in the hands of the governments, in the societies, and in the big companies that have decided that they want to push the green energy and this carbonization of the economy. Then is for first time, we have, a good certain about the market, and, the unique difficult is trying to optimize when we allocate our investment. And for that is key... Next slide, please. Is key to be in a very big market, because when you are in a very big market, you can select better than if you are in a very small market.
Then, if we, with our knowledge, we are not able to develop at least our compromise of 1.5 GW per year with this market, is that we don't we must not be here for many time. Okay? Then, with this huge market, with this buoyant market, we could assure you that we can assure you that we are going to commit our, fulfill our commitments in terms of develop and in terms of how profitable are going to be the project that we are going to develop. And after this slide, José Antonio Fernández is going to explain to you much better all of this strategy. Okay.
Okay. José Antonio Fernández, Head of Renewable Energy of the Group. I joined the Group in 2007 in a different senior management positions in the flow business and EPC business, and really, I have the
... DNA of our group, and we are logically incorporating this DNA in all of our structure, renewable structure, renewable platform. I will continue José María's presentation by giving you more details of our strategy, our structure, and our portfolio of renewable projects in our group. Based on our successful background in the development of renewable projects, with the facts explainable, Cobra continues with the same strategy in our current and future projects, which I will break down in the following points. Cobra has a significant local presence in the countries in which we carry out our industrial activity.
So that this presence allows us to be very close to the main stakeholders, generate a very good relationship of great trust and credibility with local developers, and allows us to approach projects with full knowledge of the internal rules of each country. In conclusion, we are perceived through our local business units and, based on our decentralized structure, as an important generator of value in each country in which we develop. Serious in our actions and reliable in our results. We have a very robust industrial engineering structure that allows us to deeply analyze projects under development in each country, defining reliable production and plant performance, mitigating site risks, construction risk, startup and operation risk of our plants under our developments.
For Cobra, it's a real luxury to have a very powerful structure in construction, including procurement and subcontracting specific structure that allows us to have a clear control of our production, performance, CapEx, OpEx, and of all the project that we are developing. Cobra takes advantage of the great internal experience in the structuring of project financing and financial closures, centralized in Madrid and supported logically in each target countries. As for the sale of energy from each plant under development, Cobra has the structure of our own trading company, Eleia. This is our energy trading company, created in Spain, with a double objective. One is to adequately represent our generating plants into the public energy administration that is mandatory in Spain. And second, to ensure the best portfolio of energy sales contracts in our generating plants.
Through negotiation and closure of PPAs contracts and managing the merchant market sales in each country we are developing. Also here, apart from Eleia resources, Cobra has a decentralized energy management structure with a local support team for the direct management of each offtaker in each country. Please, next slide. Cobra has a structure for the development of renewable projects with our own management of the entire value chain. To achieve this competitive advantage, Cobra has the following decentralized structure. We have an important working group in Madrid that defines the development strategies in each country and controls and manage the risk associated with each project. We have a local work groups in each country, good experience, and totally responsible of the business, and especially in Spain, Portugal, Brazil, Colombia, Peru, Chile, Mexico, Ecuador, South Africa, United States, and Australia.
Fully aligned and committed to the strategies and work procedures of our renewable business units. We have a highly experienced team of close to 90 people, not counting the staff associated with our trading company, Eleia, and not counting our construction and operation and maintenance structure in the EPC business units. Thanks to this decentralized structure, we can develop our projects in an agile and efficient manner from origination and development, with the objective of bringing projects to ready-to-build status in accordance with our target of 1.5 GW on average per year. Cobra provides a solid energy management team based on Eleia’s support, I explained, and dedicated local teams to optimize the PPA merchant risks on each project, adjusting them to the best market conditions and financing conditions in each country.
So we have a solid financial structure to do this, to define the financial model and its intrinsic risks. Based on our long experience in construction complex projects, we have a senior engineering team with extensive experience in project development, production analysis, performance analysis, and technical definition of the plan. Always the objective is the same, to have good projects. In Cobra, we use our internal construction structure that allows us to make advantage with our very strong negotiating position with subcontractors and suppliers of equipments and materials. And finally, we have a planned operation structure with a good knowledge of the operation and maintenance of solar and wind technologies, with a very professional and direct relation with the administration and utilities of each country. Later on, I will explain example in Belmonte Power Plant. Next slide, please.
We have a pipeline of renewable projects of more than 15 GW, supported by real projects at different stages of maturity. What does it mean, real projects? Real projects imply that, be sure that we have rejected many projects during the early stage of development. Be sure. This pipeline is not including any offshore wind projects, which, as I will explain below, we develop with a different strategy, given their special characteristics with a higher risk and longer development times. This pipeline is consistent with the commitment of 1.5 GW per year on average of ready-to-build status projects. Taking into account that, as usual in pipelines, mortality and natality along the months and years occurs. This pipeline can be broken down into three main blocks based on the maturity stages.
There is a first package of advanced projects with ready-to-build expected in a maximum of 18 months, reaching 30% of the total pipeline, let's say 4.6 gigas approx, including in this 4.6 gigas, the 1.5 gigas on ready-to-build on December of this year. We have a second package of 20% of the total pipeline, approx 3 gigas, in intermediate stage of development, with ready-to-build expected between 18 and 30 months. And finally, a package of projects in early stage of development, with ready-to-build expected beyond 30 months, covering 50% of the pipeline, more than 7 gigas. In summary, I repeat, we see this pipeline that is very consistent with our renewable generation target.
Our pipeline is mainly solar, with approximately 90% of the total in solar and 10% in wind energy projects. This 10% is mainly due to the fact that actually, this, the solar projects are less complex and less risky than the wind ones, which are highly conditioned by the actual difficult situation of wind turbine manufacturers, as you know. Our pipeline is well-balanced in similar parts in Spain and Portugal, LATAM, and the States and Australia. By countries, our pipeline is divided into four main hubs, with development of more than 2 GW in each country.
These hubs or these countries that are in these four hubs are Spain, Brazil, United States, and Australia, which are closely followed by a series of countries that also are also important in our development, such as Mexico, Colombia, Peru, South Africa, with a pipeline on each country of this, of more than 500 MW, each one. Please, next one. With regards to our offshore wind projects, as I said, and José María introduced at the beginning, we have limited our development to projects with a differential advantage over others that make them so attractive to any major investor in the offshore wind business. As a result of this limited development policy, we have two developments in UK, one of 480 MW with a fixed structure…
technology called Morecambe, and another called White Cross with floating technology and an installed capacity of 100 MW. The Morecambe project is in the Irish Sea, has the advantage of being in a shallow water, 18-40 meters, close to the coast, 30 kilometers, with a seabed suitable for cost-optimized monopile. And we expected for this project to have FID at the end of 2025, and COD in Q1 2030. This project, Morecambe, is a real example of our restricted development strategy in this offshore wind project. Developing good project and taking advantage of this, I'm going to show you. This project, Morecambe project, was awarded in the same auction as two neighboring Morecambe projects in the Irish Sea. Both project was promoted between BP, British Petroleum, and EnBW, Energie Baden-Württemberg .
These two projects are 1.5 GW capacity each, very huge projects. The option fee for these two projects is, I'm disclosing public info. The option fee of these two projects is 66% higher than our project. These two projects are approx 60 km from the coast, twice the distance of our own. More CapEx, more risk. The seabed of our neighboring project is worse than our, with some areas clearly with rocks. The seabed depth is also deeper than our by about additional 50 m. More CapEx, more risk again. These are facts, not opinion on a PowerPoint or an Excel. White Cross 100 MW floating system in the Celtic Sea, the other project, is a floating technology demonstration project supported by the Crown Estate. Only 50 km onshore from coast.
Remember the information from Pedro that said 80% is the maximum in order to reduce this cost.
Eighty kilometers.
Eighty kilometers, sure. With a water depth of 70-80 meters, and that technically is an optimal floating project without an option fee, and I repeat, without an option fee. As we register this project as a test and demo project, avoiding this charge, financial charge. Another advantage is another fact. Based on the, on these advantages, we have started a process of incorporating a partner to be concluded in the next few months. Apart from these two projects in UK, Cobra is ready for the forthcoming Spanish offshore wind auction. Actually, we have a partnership, 50/50, with CIP, the Copenhagen Infrastructure Partner, and we are ready for the forthcoming Portuguese offshore wind auction under partnership negotiation. Please, the next one. Cobra will have an installed capacity of 2 GW.
This is a commitment by the end of 2023, composed of plants in operation and under construction. The most recently commissioned project is in Brazil, Belmonte project, with roughly 600 MW of installed capacity, actually in operation. The 1.4 GW of projects under construction are in Brazil and in Spain. Brazil, Panorama and Lins project, with 0.6 GW of installed capacity, are already under construction with engineering completed, contracts for the main component signed, and earthwork started. The Spanish projects, 11 projects covering 1.8 GW, have now the engineering completed and all main contracts for the main components already signed. Please, next one. And the Belmonte, Belmonte project.
This project is in Brazil and has been a very successful project, was commissioned in July 2023, operating with an installed capacity of 570 MW. This project has a good production, more than 2,100 hours, good orography that permitted a very efficient construction. The evacuation is simple, with 28 km distance to the substation. So it is definitely a good project. It's another fact based on our structure that I explained before. This project covers 1,200 hectares in the state of Pernambuco, which is in great need of investment and employment generation. So this project in Pernambuco has been important in the social community, creating around 1,900 jobs. The fully operational plan-...
produces around 1,200 GWh of renewable energy each year, equivalent to the annual consumption of 400,000 households. The CapEx invested in Belmonte has been EUR 370 million, financed in this first stage directly by Cobra funds. The plant currently has 54% of production under PPA contracts. The first one with public energy company Enel, totaling 16% of Belmonte P90 production, with a commitment to deliver energy for 15 years. The additional PPAs signed cover 38% of Belmonte's P90 production, with private, industrial, and services companies for 10-15 years duration. All PPAs average prices are around from 70-210 BRL per MWh.
We have the objective of reaching 75% of production covered by PPA contracts. But now, we are not currently accelerating the project, the process of closing these PPAs, and as we are at a time of low prices due to the cyclical heavy rain, we are not pressed of this. We are closing only the best PPAs that comply with our minimum price target. We know perfectly that this is, it is a long-term project, 30 years, where future upsides will occur sure. The expected return of the project is in the low double digits, and the expected EBITDA 70%-75%. Please, next one. This Belmonte project has been a clear, a clear success of the decentralized structure I have just explained for the development of renewable projects.
We have obtained 28 permits and authorization, thanks to the great knowledge of the administration, especially the Public Energy Organization, Enel and ONS, under the Ministry of Energy. No possibility without the powerful and responsible local managers and resources. We have developed the project together with the local developer in a very coordinated and truthful partnership. We have been able to secure the main components with highly optimized costs and manage local subcontractors, reducing the construction risk. We have had Cobra's robust and reliable EPC construction structure on site, including a package made by one of the subsidiaries of Cobra, Cymi Brasil, for the construction of 28 kilometers of transmission line and evacuation substations.
We have optimized the financial costs, initially funding the project with Cobra balance sheet, with the expectation of refinancing it in the future with non-recourse debt when conditions become more attractive, avoiding us to bear a substantial financial cost today on the long term. Now, I present you a video of our Belmonte solar plant. Please. Our project developed in Spain, which reached a total capacity of 1.2 GW in 21 solar plants, covering 0.8 GW under construction and 0.4 GW on ready-to-build in December 2023, and with CODs in 2024 and 2025. We have a closed financing for this project for EUR 700 million, with a target gearing of approximately 70%. The financial closing was negotiated by our experienced financial management team in Madrid and settled in October 2023 with Santander and Natixis banks.
This financing allows us to ensure the viability of the project, initiating the construction in a solid and reliable manner. We have a commitment to enter into PPA contracts with investment-grade off-takers during the following 2 years, with an average duration of 10 years contracts to mitigate the exposure to merchant prices, and thereby maximize the expected return of one single digit on each project expected. Please, next one. In our renewable development activities, it is critical to incorporate solutions that optimize the production management of our plants. We understand that at Cobra, we must hardly work to incorporate those that we consider to be the most reliable and realistic in the medium and long term. We have already done so in the recent past by being leaders in the engineering, construction, and management of renewable thermosolar plants with large storage capacity.
We will do so again with a battery energy storage system, BESS, which we consider strategic for Cobra in those countries where it's imperative to mitigate the risk of possible cannibalization, with low prices as scenarios, and risk of curtailment and occasional grid congestions. We are currently in an early stage development of these BESS projects, with approximately 1.7 GW of installed capacity and with an average of approximately 2 hours of operation in the States, in Australia, and in Spain. Associating or hybridizing them with some of our own renewable development projects. This is a further demonstration of our involvement and knowledge of the entire value chain of renewable projects, where there really are not many companies in the world that cover it in the same way.
We understand that the development of these BESS systems is a complementary service to energy production facilities, which allows us to attend and negotiate, in a more optimal way, our energy sales through PPA contracts with off-takers, and to be more efficient in our management of sales to merchant energy market. Please, next one. We are really comfortable with our current renewable structure in the geographical areas explained along this presentation. This allows us, and will allow us in the future, to develop the already explained target of up to 1.5 GW of renewable projects by 2030. This oblige us to maintain and increase our development capabilities, especially in the hubs described in Spain, Brazil, the States, and Australia, incorporating in the next coming years, important developments in countries such as Colombia, Peru, Mexico, or South Africa.
By the end of this year, 2023, Cobra will have a capacity of 2 GW of projects in operation and under construction, with a clear objective of reaching 5 GW in 2025, with a very balanced portfolio in Brazil, Spain, United States, Australia, and the rest of the world. In the long term, by the end of 2030, we aim to achieve more than 12 GW of projects in operation and under construction, with a more balanced mix of technologies, solar, wind, and becoming one of the main developers and managers of renewable plants worldwide. Comprising an average CapEx deploy of approx EUR 1 billion per year, and thus being able to take advantage of the benefits that this type of green energy development offers us. Please, the next one.
As we have already explained during this presentation, our strategy always is to optimize the value creation of our projects. To this end, in Cobra, we are very rigorous in the analysis of projects during the different stages of development. We are not incentivized to increase quantity of megawatts in ready-to-build in order to sell them or doing the normal action that most developer do. But rather, we are incentivized to develop good projects to our portfolio in short, medium, and long term, important. In countries with mature markets such as Spain, Portugal, the States, and Australia, we have targeted high single-digit project return. In emerging market countries such as Brazil, Ecuador, Colombia, Peru, and South Africa, we are looking for low double-digit project returns. In both cases-...
We work with a financing scenario with target projects gearing of between 50%-70%, depending on the country, of the country. And a revenue structure based on PPA contracts with a well-performing offtakers covering up to 70%. It's our target, our strategy of these plants. Leaving the remaining 30% to other types of PPAs contracts with small, medium-sized customers that allows us control upsides with better returns, as well as some very small positions in direct merchant sales. The expected EBITDA on our projects will be above 70%. And in conclusion, Cobra position is a very pragmatic one, that seeks to optimize the value of the project with rigorous and disciplined strategies and procedures, and taking advantage of the strong financial balance sheet position of our shareholder, VINCI.
I am going to talk something about the capital, capital allocation, okay, in renewables. You know, because it's public, that we want to consolidate all of these assets in our balance sheet. At the same time, we have an agreement with ACS to give them the right to buy up to, up to now 49%. But it's 49%, there is nothing at the market price of these assets. We must offer them when, when we reach 1, 1 giga, in blocks of 1 giga. That's the reason because now we are not offering them Belmonte, for example. When we reach this 1 giga, we must offer them, or to offer them to say that if they want to buy at a market price.
At the same time, they will want to have this ambition to have at least 12 GW in our balance sheet in 2030. We remain pragmatic with our assets, and if we could do together our compromise to have the 12 GW, at the same time, we could optimize some of our capital this investing in any moment. There's nothing that we have as written in stone. As I said, it was...
We are very pragmatic about that, but we think that in any moment, we don't know, in the next years or, or never happen, we are open to rotate some of our capital, our equity, to try to improve our profits and to try to push faster our investments in in green power. Because perhaps we don't disinvest the 49% with ACS, but in years, perhaps we could disinvest 49% with other investors. Okay? Next slide, please. And as summarize, I want to fix some ideas. We are in this industry for the now 25 years.
I know that I am saying this, I'm boring you, but it's nothing that we, perhaps we are not the most sexy guys doing this, but we did this in the last 25 years with success, okay? At the same time, we have the capabilities, we have the flexibility, and we have the entrepreneur spirit to do this, because as you know, the most successful guys in this industry are the guys that feel their money as own money. Some feel, or some because you are the owner of this money. We are not the owners of the money, okay?
But we feel the money as was, our money, and that's do give, give us some flexibility that other competitors with the same balance sheet or seems, a similar balance sheet as we have, don't have it. Okay, then, we are going to have, and fulfill our commitments in terms of gigawatts this year, for sure, and next year, too. This, we have a strong pipeline and, we try to growth it, you know, we will see, because there are more opportunities that perhaps than our commitments in terms of investment, but, we are so confident that, we could get a lot of good projects. For us, our ambition is very solid and is, this is written in stone.
And, we want to, to have these projects in long term and optimize them in the long term, okay? Then, as I said to my team, perhaps we must begin or invest in some projects for, imagine 9% in a year, if we know that in 3-4 years, we are going to have 15% in a year.... but we must balance this with money from today. You know, I say that the same time to my managers many times, that I am a little bit bored about people who talk me about money from my grandsons, because the, my sons and fathers, wants to live life good, too. No? Then we must balance the promises of future, profits with real profits today. And that's it in this, particular item. Clap to José Antonio.
Okay, and, I join with the same record with the, with the final presentation that, I'm going to, say you some-- explain you some slides, and after me, is going to close by Christian Labeyrie. Next slide, please. This is the very clear slide, okay? We are the most profitable company in the industry, and these guys are the flow business, basically, flow business guys. They are-- these guys are not in a, they has have not exposure, basically, to EPC contracts. If we put them another with the EPC guys, you know, Technip, Tecnimont, Técnicas Reunidas, Fluor Corporation, and so on, perhaps we have more advantage to the second in this, margins classification, okay?
And if we see in the same picture, what of all of this in flow business or in EPC projects, have the knowledge to do an adequate development in renewables, no one of these are there, okay? Then, as summarized, as I said in the first slide this morning, we have a mix that no one has. Then, we have the advantage to move our knowledge when we smell that there are more profit. Next slide, please. This our bottom line. You know, we are going to do at least EUR 7.5 billion in 2025, at least. We are going to have at least EUR 7.5 billion in EBIT in contracting, at least. If you join this, you know that you want to do some numbers now. What is going to happen? I think...
If you join this information with some discussion, I told you that we are doing more than 150% in conversion from net profits to cash, and we expected much more in the next two years. Much, much more. You can do more numbers. And perhaps some of you said that this is advance payments. Yes, but not only advance payments. You could try to calculate what is an advance payment of market, what kind of projects could think that we have an advance payment, and you can decide if it's enough, if all of this cash conversion we have comes from advance payment. Next slide, please. This is our ambition in renewable energy.
We are going to commit with—we are absolutely commit with this challenge, and we are going to fulfill this commitment. And I assure you that we are going to have best-class projects. As I repeat many times today, perhaps we are not going to develop 20 gigas per year, and we are not going to be in the race that today I said this, I go to my home, when appears a competitor and say, "We are going to do 30 gigas," I come again one month later and said, "We, 40 gigas." How many of this, you know? We are not going to do that. We have the commitment to do this for 1.5, and we have enough market and enough knowledge to fulfill the commitment that we are going to have 1.5.
An idiot is able to do 1.5 with this market. An idiot! Our obligation is to do 1.5 GW in the best class of returns, and I assure you that we did in the last 25 years, and we are going to do in the next 8 years, for sure. You must wait, I don't know, 12 months, eh? 12 months, 18 months to see this. I know that for you, your life is today, but we must, let's see, look for the money from our sons. Not grandsons, but the sons. Okay, then next slide, please. What was it going to be our picture? We will see. What is the only that I can assure you is that this red box color, this red bar is going to be true.
I don't know if the others are going to do double or half. I don't know. When they double, we are outside of the picture. If they do half, we go to have movements to the right. But what I can assure you that we are going to have 12. What I can assure you is that our profitability of that projects are going to be in the right of all of this, because this, this is only megawatts, you know? Megawatts only depends of money, eh? Megawatts, megawatts. Only if you give me EUR 3 billion for me, and you ask me 1 GW, I do 1 GW for you, with EUR 3 billion. But this is not linked with, eh?
Then 12 gigawatts for sure, and we will see in what position we are, but we are not fighting against others. We want to assure good cash flows for our shareholder in the long, medium term. Okay, then now, Christian Labeyrie is going to finish the presentation.
Thank you. First, I would like, I would like to make three remarks about what José María just said. First one is about own money. It's also our money. It's not just a market money, because we are all in VINCI shareholder of the group. You know that we own more than 10% of the company, so we also are interested in making money for ourself as well. Second remark about the margins of the competitors compared to the one of Cobra. The good news is, since we acquired Cobra two years ago, the margins of VINCI Energy has little by little improved in order to get closer to the one of Cobra. So if Cobra continues to improve its margin, it's a good news also for VINCI Energy.
Last but not least, cash generation, as José María told you, cash conversion was around 150% of the net profit of the year, which means around EUR 400 million per year, which has permitted to finance a large part of the CapEx incurred during this period for investing in long-term projects and in particular, in renewables. It's very good news. Now let's talk about capital allocation, because I know it's a topic that you are very much interested in, and you very often ask us the question about what is the policy of VINCI about cash allocation.
But before talking about cash allocation, it's important to understand that we first need to keep on generating a high and recurring level of free cash flow, and that's a day-to-day relentless effort for all our business unit managers and for all our colleagues. We are, like José María explained, cash maker. We want to generate cash flow out of all our businesses. We are all cash driven because cash is king and because VINCI is really a cash machine, and we are perceived as a cash machine. That reminded, our cash allocation playbook is clear and constant, and we will continue to reinforce our integrated concession, construction, energy services business model, while accelerating our international development. International operation already represent nearly 60% of our total revenue.
As a result of that, we intend to keep on creating value for our shareholders, ourselves, and more broadly, our stakeholders, especially our employees, our business partners, and the communities, the communities in which we operate. As you know, on one hand, we want to keep on broadening and reinforcing our portfolio of motorways and airports, concession assets worldwide, and to extend their duration. But on the other hand, we want to keep on developing this energy business through VINCI Energies and through Cobra IS, because they are both very well positioned on fast-growing markets with an outstanding visibility in the medium and long term, and they also offer interesting opportunities of acquisitions in many countries where we are established or where we intend to be established.
Xavier Huillard, our CEO, very often emphasizes the fact that energy services are even better than concessions because they generate recurring revenues and cash flows in growing markets, but they also have no end, contractually speaking. So energy outlook is bright today, more than ever. Indeed, as we have seen today, global growth will be greener and greener. The GDP of a country will be more and more correlated with its capacity to produce, to transport, and to distribute electricity and green electricity. Capitalizing on Cobra IS track record and expertise to develop greenfield renewable energy assets, we will progressively build a significant portfolio, as José María explained, of such long-term cycle assets by investing around EUR 1 billion as an average per year. So in total, around EUR 7 billion-8 billion by 2030.
So this is consistent with our goal to broaden our portfolio of long-term assets, to extend its average maturity and to create value. Obviously, as we always did, we will progress at our own pace. We are pragmatical people, setting up realistic objectives without chasing volume of activity at any cost, but giving priority to the return on investment. To wrap up, the successful integration of Cobra IS further accelerated our strategy and makes VINCI a winner of the energy and digital transition mega trend. So the key takeaway of the day are: one, we are now the biggest and truly worldwide reference player in energy services and EPC projects, able to accompany our clients almost everywhere in Europe, in North America, Latin America, and the, and the other continents, Africa and Australia.
Second, our offerings stepped up with Cobra IS and knowledge expertise in delivering turnkey EPC projects in the energy sector. Third, we benefit from Cobra IS expertise in developing renewable energy concessions or long-term contracts from its deeply locally rooted development teams to become a significant player in this sector, with a portfolio of assets, mainly solar, which should reach at least 12 GW by 2030. VINCI financial strength, obviously, will be a further advantage in accelerating the new unit growth as a long-term operator of value creative assets. Finally, this is one-of-a-kind alliance between best-in-class Spanish and French engineers, recognized for their on-time and on-budget project management, and this unlocks potential to address global challenges and contributes to the environmental transition.
So maybe to finish with this presentation, and before going into the Q&A session, a few words, a few comments about the valuation of Cobra, because some of you, I know, still consider the value of Cobra should be very close to the one of the price we paid to ACS two years ago, so EUR 4.2 billion. I think with the figures that José María presented, you should revise, I think, your valuation, considering EUR 7.5 billion of revenue by 2025, at least, and 7.5% EBIT margin, at least. If you apply a multiple of, I don't know, the competitors are between 10 and 12, something like that, it should bring you to a significant higher value to this company compared to the price we pay two years ago.
Not taking into account the prospects, very interesting prospect in the renewable concession that we intend, the portfolio we tend to build with a 3.6 giga already on hand by the end of 2024. So I hope we persuaded you that we made a fantastic acquisition two years ago, acquiring Cobra. Thank you for your attention, and now we are ready to try to answer your questions.
Hi, good afternoon. Elodie from JPMorgan. Thank you very much for this, very, very interesting presentation. I have a few questions. Maybe I start with the first one, which is for everyone. Since the acquisition of Cobra IS, I was wondering if you could share what VINCI Energies has learned from Cobra IS and vice versa. Because, Christian, you said it yourself, there is a, there's growth in Cobra IS, there's growth in margin, and it translates as well in VINCI Energies. So if you could also give us some color on, on the VINCI Energies side, but on both, VINCI Energies and Cobra. First question.
You want to respond? Well, maybe Christophe will answer also. Okay, to be very clear, there is no intention to merge Cobra and VINCI Energies. We have to be very clear. The culture of the two companies are very different. The expertise are sometimes similar, sometimes very different, so it would be value destruction to try to go in this, into this direction. So maybe the best answer I can make is the one I already made, is to create an emulation within the group to be even better, more excellence on both sides. I don't know if Christophe wants to add something?
No, what, what I could add is that, when we did the due deal and we did the full review, and also for competition questions that are obvious, were to look what there was on overlap between the VINCI Energies and Cobra IS. And, the overlap region, if you want, is no more than 3%-4% of the value of Cobra IS. If you try to look to countries or regions where they are both present, they are not necessarily under the same call for tenders and so on. So... And, and we have another test, which is, as you, I think it's Raúl, who explained that.
At a certain level, the projects come to the headquarters, so you can see if there is a project which is tendered by both of them, and the limit is EUR 80 million, so it's major projects, really. I think this has happened in two years once. We have a procedure of Chinese wall, you know, very strict and so on, you know, to be in line with competition law. It happened once or twice in two years. So it means the overlap is not so important. Second, as Christian said, I think-
... I tried to explain a little bit about the cultural fit between VINCI and Cobra and why we thought it was making sense. But I think trying to merge VINCI Energy and Cobra would just lead to a kind of disaster. For instance, VINCI Energy, I think honestly is much more stronger in IT, high-level expertise, but Cobra is much much more expert in major EPC projects. I mean, if you and if you try to merge everything, at the end you will have nothing. So that's what we think.
Thank you. My second question is on margins. First of all, if you could give us a bit of color between the differences between the flow and the EPC margins. Are we right to assume flow is more in line with VINCI Energies and EPC is much higher? We've seen some examples already from Dragados Offshore at double digit. And my second question on that would also be a follow-up on the guidance on margin. I mean, you're basically guiding to stay fairly flat. I mean, I know it's above 7.5%, but given the pipeline, the growth, just from that Dragados Offshore, being multiplied by five times already by next year, so, and it's a double digits. How can you say flat? That would be my second question.
Okay. Well, first of all, it's true that flow business is more consistently, and perhaps we ask less money to bid. Okay? That we ask to EPC contracts because the spirit is that they are more risky. But at the same time, always happen something around EPC projects that equilibrate the margins. Then, it's true that with the backlog we have and with the level of risk we have in EPC now, in our actual backlog, could be some difference between the margins in EPC that we did in the past. Then, if we are going to increase our margins, and I hope it happen, it's true that probably appears from the side of EPCs. But in terms of our last 20 years performance, there are not so much difference between, perhaps one year, some years it's better EPC, some this.
But it's because it is lower risk. But, with the healthy backlog we have in EPCs now, it's probably that these things that detract some of parts of the margins of EPCs will not appear, and we could have increases of margins in EPC parts. And the second one was?
It was, indeed, if we could have a split between flow and EPC margins and-
Ah, no, no, no. This is, this is, this is the reason why I say, I say to you about, about the difference between both. And what you say that you are going to be flat in the future-
Right
... with this 7.55 at least, I think we are not going to be flat
But we say that we are going to be flat. I think it. They pay me to increase the margins, and if with this particular moment that we have in our industry, we don't, we are flat, we are going to be disappointed. Okay? But this is what is our compromise, at least 7.5%. And the significant is at least 7.5%, you know, at least.
Well, that's fair.
7.5.
I'll just ask one last... Is there any bottlenecks in your growth ambition? I mean, presumably, it's a people's business, so, are you worried that you won't find the labor, the workers, the skills that you need to grow given the pipeline?
No. No, for this pipeline. We are absolutely confident that we could face this pipeline 100%, in quality, in schedules, and in costs. But it's true that there are bottleneck if we want to growth much more than we are growing. Because first one, we don't want to do this, first one. In flow business, to growth or do growth inorganically buying companies as VINCI Energies do, that is, it, it's not our scope, or it's very difficult to increase our growth. Okay? More than in long-term GDP of the countries. In flow business, the flow business in EPC, we can grow more because we have many people asking us services, projects every day, as we never saw in the past.
But it's true that they are complex projects, even with this more lower risk contracts we have. It's true that they are a little bit more risky because the size, because the amounts, because the complex of the project. And we don't want to face these projects with people from LinkedIn. You know? This is not a joke, you know? We could be awarded with much, much more contract in EPC and try to look for people in the LinkedIn, but we are not going to do our EPCs with this guy that didn't demonstrate us that they want, they can earn money to the contract, because I said in the lunch, the unique skills you must preserve in your company is the skills to earn money and to earn money in contracts.
I don't want any guy with 8 combined cycles of experience. That is what we could say—see in the, in the LinkedIn. I want a guy that each work or project he did, he won money. And this can't be disclosure for third parties. You need to create your teams in your at home, and because you can see all the performance of this guy or this team, and this is impossible to do outside your company. Then that's the reason because we have a little bit limit if we want to be the leaders in profit, the leaders in margin, our growth in EPC. That is the part that we could growth more today.
We stop a little bit our ambition in bids in the last six months, and we try to select better the future because we must allocate our human resources in the adequate business or project to maximize the return of these human resources that we have.
Yeah. Hello, over here.
It's for me?
Yeah. Luis Prieto from Kepler. Thanks for devoting your precious time with us today. I had three questions, if I may. The first one is, you've been pretty clear about the 12 GW of capacity outlook, but the problem, and you also referred to it, that ACS has a dilutive role and can reduce that exposure. Is there any way you could boost your pipeline outside of the sort of ACS pipeline, and would you leverage some VINCI Energies to an extent, or would it always be done through Cobra IS? That would be my first question.
Done the development or the construction?
The renewable, holding the asset, the development and also holding the asset.
Yeah.
'Cause my fear is that if ACS theoretically went for 50% or 49% of everything, you're suddenly left with half of your exposure.
Yeah.
That would be... I would think that would be undesirable from VINCI's perspective.
Yeah, yeah, could be. Could be, but... As I said—I said to you, that we are pragmatic about that. Could be that with more resources, we could, with more resources because we disinvest part of them, we could improve more our development to try to achieve 40-51% of 20 gigas instead of 100% of 12 gigas. It could be, could be. We will see, depend of the price market that we could get, and if it depends of many things, but could, could be.
Okay. And related to that, in the current environment of the post-Ørsted environment for valuations of renewables in the world, even beyond offshore-
Yeah
... I would say investors are reluctant to recognize the value of pipelines. I just wanted to hear your commentary. Do you get obsessed with that, or you don't—it's just a long-term view that you take, and you don't care what the market thinks today?
No, no, no. I see that I am so respect with the money from my fathers and not only looking for. No. Yes, it's true that the evaluations, I think that, you know, that market in each business we are in the last 20 years, it's true that all of them are moves in waves, okay? And every in every market appears moments that the wave is too high and becomes crazy, the wave. And, but there are other moments that they became crazy to so too much respect with the market.
We are now, I think, past the moment when everyone is saying that they have too much risk, because prices, because the, you can see in the panels costs that goes 70% down in six months, I think, six months and eight months. And this is because the market is reacting exaggeratedly, in my opinion. But yes, these, the, those were prices or valuations of a bubble, and now we have, in my opinion, more reasonable valuation, and we are comfortable with this valuation we have, and we think we can improve a lot. But it's true that all of these rubbish market in development is slowly but cleaning.
Cleaning, yeah.
Can I just add an additional word, because as a follow-up to all acquisitions for VINCI, I see a lot of pipelines. I can tell you, and then you have to believe me, but I can tell you that the way this pipeline is built is much more serious than 80% of what I see. I mean, there is nothing there where if you are asking us, we will not reveal it because it's not the game, but we have a database that is totally corresponding to what we have shown. Many developers, you know, in what they call early stage, to just take a map and say, like, "We could put 100 MW there." This is not the, this is not what we have done there. So perhaps you can find it conservative, but, I mean, I think you will not change our DNA, so.
But basically, there is a full database with all the projects, all the locations, the powers, where you think the grid connection makes sense, how you could acquire the land, and so on. And, if it's not that, it's not in the pipeline in this presentation.
...Understood. I had a final question, if I may, very short. I just wanted to understand a bit better the, what you talked about, cash conversion. How does the working capital work at Cobra IS?
In working capital in the whole size or the variation that we had in the last two years?
Well, how it feeds your cash flow generation at the moment.
Yes, this year, we are creating at least EUR 200 million in cash from the working capital, and we expected much more than this year. These are the cash that we are going to generate only because the improve of the working capital.
That's a sustainable trend?
Uh, no.
No.
No, this is. Yeah. No, no. It's like everyone's question. No. Now, when we grow, there are some. Did you know that it's historically, I don't know if you are familiarized with our accounts that were published high in ACS, the whole in the last 20 years, but you can see in this report that we have historically negative working capital. Then, in days, imagine 60 days of our revenue in negative working capital. If you increase your revenue, increase your negative working capital in absolute amount with the same days, okay?
As I think that we have a conservative accounting, we are creating a little bit more working capital, only with the effect of the growing, and we will see. With this level, if we don't growth, it's probably that we stabilize in very high with negative working capital, but it can grow if we don't grow, because, you know, well, it can grow if we earn much more money than we did, we declare, we disclose. I don't know if this clear.
Yes.
You.
Here. Yeah, hi, Paul Chabrand from Kempen. I have a couple of questions still on renewables. First, in Brazil, I think you briefly mentioned, price pressures at the moment coming from high hydro reserves. It seems to me that the situation is quite worse than that. I mean, the price on the spot and futures market is essentially one third of your required PPA prices. We have a structural oversupply. I think the government is putting on auction 8 gigawatts of thermal power. So in this environment, some players actually had to leave the country. I'm thinking of Acciona Energía, I'm thinking of small developer who are really struggling. So what are you doing better than others to develop projects there?
Okay. This is the best, the same question I ever have in order... We did in an investor day within ACS five years ago.
Same question.
Sorry?
You had the same question.
Yes. No, the same question. Each day, they, because, you know, as we are not as sexy, then there are sexy guys that create the trend, no? Then as the sexy guys goes out or say that they have problems to develop this 1.5 gigas, or that we won in the auction in Spain, when Iberdrola guys and Acciona Energy guys and Naturgy guys said that Castillo is suiciding Cobra because they don't know anything about this, and appears everyone in the paper, the... I imagine by them. And the news say that, "Cobra is going to fail. Cobra is going to fail. There are going to be 3 gigas that are not going to be completed," that, you know, in Expansión, and the people, "Oh!" Well, I don't know what is Acciona doing.
I am not going to blame Acciona. But what are we going to do better? I don't know. But what I are doing, I can explain to you, is to try to develop from the scratch, because we have 30 years of footprint in Brazil that Acciona hasn't. Okay? It's more sexy, but hasn't. We know we are in the lands. We know where the connection points because we are the biggest and high and more important, for example, operation and maintenance transmission line company for third parties, not for our assets, because we sold them. And we know the substations, we know the connection, we know the regulator, we know the owners of the lands, we know the business in Brazil.
I don't know why they left Brazil, but I am so comfortable with our projects, and I think that we have very long-term projects, and we think that it's going to be a success for VINCI, these projects.
Thank you. Maybe let me turn the question around. Are you comfortable finding client to purchase electricity at EUR 170-EUR 200, when the same client can purchase the electricity at EUR 70, EUR 80 on the futures market?
Yeah, but-
I think it's a price question.
First, ask them. Second, because this what they say to us, because I ask the same to my guys. Like, as you can understand, when we are signing contracts at EUR 200, I say, "But why these stupid guys are buying us the energy at EUR 200, when they want it?" Because perhaps next year, El Niño or La Niña, I don't know what is running now. El Niño or La Niña disappears, and it begins to dry season in Brazil. And in Brazil, as in other countries, people moves in packs, you know? And it's dry three months without a rain, and the big industries begins to threaten and move the legs, and they are trying to fix their risk.
That's the reason that they give us. There are companies, serious companies, you know? They are not idiots. What they are doing, this is the reason. This is the reason. We are not comfortable with this level of prices, eh? Even with the PPs we are signing, eh, we want to do something more.
Maybe just a second question, more on Spain. And Spain, I mean, the situation looks pretty bright right now, but I think there's somewhere between 50 and 100 gigawatt of capacity in the permitting queue. So eventually, this project will come on the market, will start waiting on returns. So how do you see the long-term outlook in the country? Are you still comfortable that you can achieve your targeted returns in an environment where you have to compete with, you know, dozens or hundreds of others developer?
First, we have 1.2, okay? 1.2 that we have, the permits. I know there are a long queue of people trying to... waiting for their permits. We have a portfolio for 2024-2025 to achieve Ready-to-Build, but it's not included in the 1.2. There are more projects we have. But there are projects that must be linked with public actions, you know, that now, this January is going to, next January, is going to end the period when you can be the owner, the owner, or to have the rights in the connection point here in Spain. This is going to disappear.
All the connection points available are going to be managed directly by the government, by Red Eléctrica. Then a part of these projects that we will see what is going to happen. I think that they are going to deliberate a lot. But it's true that there are many that I am going to three minutes about the projects in Spain. There are three parts of projects in Spain. One is this bubble of guys developing rubbish and putting some absurd guarantees on the operator to block some capacity in a substation. This is a part of them, and this part, with or without permit, is not going to go ahead for sure because are absolutely rubbish in terms of a return, in terms of CapEx, in terms of everything.
Second is the guys that have serious guys with money, that bought companies, the companies' platforms and portfolios at any price. For example, you know them. For example, at $300,000 per megawatt in development, and these are famous guys. There are some that became rich, and these are big utilities in Spain and very big and repute funds that have invested at this level of prices. And they have... Imagine they are going to get the permits, probably, and they have the money. But they have two options: resell, that we have in a bubble, a research of guys to resell the projects. I don't know who is going to pay what they paid. Or begin the construction. But if you begin the construction at this price of development, that our price of development is zero.
Zero, because we don't pay anyone for a project in Spain. Zero. We compete with EUR 0 in development. The DevEx is the name, the fixed. Zero, we compete with people that have paid EUR 300,000 per MW. Then these guys could resell or could begin the construction and show to their investors that the IRR is. I don't know what they are going to show, because we show almost 10% with zero in DevEx. I don't know what they are going to show. There's one number in very little in the presentation saying assuming 60 EUR/MW. Yeah, I want to do that the same. Okay, and the third part is guys, as we or other big players that have the contracts, that have the developments at good price, and they are going to construct.
Then this all big amount of gigawatts, real gigawatts, could be a third part. What is going to be in the future? I don't know. But they are not going to be this bubble or this bubble that we now are so comfortable with the market that we have now. Bubbles, you know, disturb the life. Sorry.
Edelfelt, Oddo BHF. Two questions for me. Thank you for this presentation. The first question would be maybe for Christian. Christian, you help us valuing Cobra IS. Thank you. Can you help us valuing the renewable portfolio? If I am not mistaken, the last transaction was Galp buying Zero- E for 2.9 gigawatts. It was EUR 2.2 billion. So can we use this as a metric to value your 5 gigawatts project? On maybe the valuation is, I don't know, maybe EUR 3 billion-EUR 3.5 billion. That's the first question, and the second one would be for José María. What is your incentive for developing the renewable portfolio? Is it on IRR? Is it on transaction value? Is it on cash flow? Thank you.
Yes, I mean, Christian delegated me to answer you for this value of portfolio. The value of portfolio, my humble opinion is that it—we are not able to do it for you. It's your job, not ours. We try to give you as many elements as we can. Perhaps you saw in Belmonte, we gave you the workload factor, which is not nothing. It's the number of hours at which given power is producing equivalent in the year. I mean, Belmonte is 570 MW. You multiply it by the load factor, you have the number of MWh or GWh produced by the plant. So we give you this part of the equation.
The other part of the equation is the cost, the price of the energy, the price you sell the energy, and I think there are decent forecast on that, but nobody is able to tell you what price the energy will be in such country in 10 years. I mean, this is something you really have to make your own valorization. I mean, since I am in this world of energy, I've spent part of my life in other, let's say, business world. You know, expert are experts. When I started, they told me, take EUR 35, that's a very solid price. Following year was EUR 200, EUR 500. Nope. Some people say 60, 70, whatever you... But, I mean, it's something where I don't think there is any total and transparent truth.
It's a transaction value. I think Galp is a little bit old, perhaps. I don't know. But José María told you certain transaction were up to EUR 300,000 per mega, so EUR 300 million per giga, okay? You can make models showing that if you want. Not difficult.
Wait, wait, you're asking about my incentive or the Cobra incentive?
Your incentive or management team incentive.
Management team incentive and your incentive as well, yes.
My own money, you know? Okay. I don't know if I can disclosure this information. What I can disclosure is how we manage the company. We have an incentive linked with the... in terms of renewables. I'm talking about renewables, okay? An incentive that is linked with the amount and with the IRR. It's not the same. If the IRR is very low, we are not going to liquidate any incentive for the megawatts, because as I said before, an idiot could, at any price and at any IRR, could develop. You're talking about the rest of the business? All of us in Cobra, yes, including me, have our variable remuneration linked 100% with the EBIT of the company. 100%. 100%.
What I could assure you is that, no one in this company that earns money for the company, are, uncomfortable in the company. That's one of our secrets. It's true. It's one of our secrets. Bad, bad guys, not the people that don't earn enough money, prefer to be in other companies because they, they have a better remuneration for wake up. Here, people that are, in, have the, have good performance, have, enough remuneration, and there are not other companies, and I know many companies, that could compete with our, incentives that are linked with the performance of each business. Nothing linked with the, you know, with the bubble, with the cloud, sorry. No, with each, business unit. It's enough.
Hello
... Oh, sorry. Not about, I don't want to add something about your remuneration. I just want to add something about the question regarding the value of the portfolio. I think you can value a portfolio on the one hand, the addition of all the projects and the value of the platform. The value of the project is different from one project to the other, depending on the country, depending on the cost of financing in the country, depending on the capacity to leverage the project, to determine the amount of equity, which is linked to the portion of PPA. If you have a PPA, you can secure long-term financing. So there are many parameters which might vary from one project to the other. So once you know all that, you can value project by project.
What is important to understand is the model of Cobra consists in being involved at the very beginning of the development stage, so that you can expect to create value when it's the time to eventually sell all or part of the project to ACS, Dragados, or to somebody else. And then the value of the platform is different, is the capacity to generate new project.
... So this being said, it doesn't give you a figure, but just to give you some ideas of how we proceed.
Hello, Augustin Cendre from Stifel. I've got two questions, if I may. The first one is on your historical pipeline over the last 20 years. I was wondering what your success rate has been in terms of development of projects. You were talking about 25 years of history, so if you could elaborate on that, please.
I am 52, you know? 25 years, I don't know when I was. But in the very beginning with the projects in Spain, imagine 70, 80% of success. With the projects we have now, imagine that for us, more than half is almost 90%. The rest are for 2025 and beyond, 2026 and beyond. Probably imagine 60%, 50%, but at the same time, we have 2 years, 3 years to reborn some of projects, but that to make born other projects. Okay? Then, if we were...
We must say what is our maximum capacity with this pipeline to do. I think that we could do more than 1.5, but we prefer only to talk about what we are for sure that we are going to do.
Okay. And my second question is on the flow business. I think you mentioned about a 40% exposure to, of revenues to maintenance. I was wondering if you could give us a, the proportion of repeat business for the flow business.
Sorry?
The proportion of repeat business, so renewed clients.
How many times our revenue are in backlog or?
Um, no-
Sorry.
... From a year to another, how many clients do you have? How, what's the proportion of your revenue that you keep with the same clients?
Yeah, 80%. Sorry, 80%. I have a very poor English, you know, and my years are old. Yes, I think that in maintenance, 70%-80%. Probably 70%-80% of repeat. We have much more backlog that we recognize in terms of maintenance. But our criteria is not to put more than 12 months in long-term contracts.
We have the same, accounting procedure, just one year of maintenance at the beginning of the year. Is it okay?
Yeah. Satish from Citigroup. I got two questions here. So first on the contract mix. So obviously, you've given a good split around the public contract versus the private and also by the sector. Any color on open book versus the closed book contracts, and how does it actually split between the EPC and the flow business? Where do you see more open book contracts? Exposure is basically any cost plus pass-through element there? Yeah. Thank you.
Okay. I'm going to answer as much as clear as I can, okay? Usually, flow business is lump sum. Usually, flow business is lump sum. Okay? Perhaps there are some equations to evaluate and if you apply some costs, but these contracts, as they are a very short-term contracts, very close to the client, contracts, these usually are lump sum, turnkey contracts. In EPC projects, in the last 20 years, majority of them were turnkey, not only in our portfolio, in the world. Included U.S., that could be the country with open book. I am talking about industry, okay? I'm not even talking about construction.
But as you know, this whole big wave that has passed over many companies in contracting, the clients don't find enough contractors, and they are changing. Okay? Then in EPC projects, that when a turnkey or lump sum could be more risky. We have now in our backlog because we have mixed contracts, you know? When we have contracts, when a part of lump sum, a part of cost plus, a part of linked with inflation of the labor and, for example. Altogether, perhaps we have of this EUR 10 billion in revenue in backlog, EUR 2 billion-2.5 billion in pure lump sum. The rest are linked with something that avoids the risk, that this in the world that we live three years ago was a dream.
We are in the dream now because there is this lack of contractors.
... Yeah, thank you. That's quite helpful. In terms of the second question, you mentioned about 150% net profit to cash conversion. Obviously, you did say that it's not sustainable. Where do you see that normalized through the cycle, and when do you expect that to be back to the normalized levels? What is the normalized level like?
I think that is going to be normalized in three years. I think that in the next three years, we are going to have more than 100% in cash conversion. I think-
What is the normalized cash?
80, 100%. Normalized is 100%, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, before I talking about contracting, then in contracting, if you don't collect at least 100%, someone is not going well in contracting. Yeah, if you have an asset, you must pay the banks.
No, go.
Hi, it's it's Chudy Chidi-Ofong from Marshall Wace. I just wanted to follow up on, I think, on a previous question, which was, I think, unsatisfactory answered, which is around renewable development. When you are developing a solar plant, you're putting capital in the ground for 25, maybe 30 years, right? And your output is relatively well forecastable, but your price is not. Now, you can de-risk that by signing a PPA, but that's typically for somewhere between 7-15 years. So it leaves merchant exposure in the period beyond that. And on top of that, you're actually saying yourself, you're keeping 30% merchant exposure. So in other words, the assumptions with regards to the merchant power price are of absolute crucial importance because the spread over WACC is only about 200-300 basis points.
Now, at the same time, we're looking at, for instance, the Iberian situation, where we're already seeing capture prices for solar assets dipping below base load prices, right? Because there's too much solar being built in Spain at the moment. So when it's a sunny day in August, power prices just go down, and you're not capturing that power price that we think we can see on Bloomberg. So I'd like to understand from you, what kind of assumptions have you made that make you comfortable with the merchant power price? Not just today, not just next year, but in the years in, in the future, because it feels to me that that is a different risk that you're taking on than, say, traffic risk with a toll road, and it's one that I find far more difficult to, to underwrite as an investor. Thank you.
Okay. Now, here we are with a good question. When you are an energy producer, you have energy price risk. When you are in a motorway concessionary with traffic risk, you are a traffic risk investor. When you are a producer of oil, you have risk of oil. The last 5 years, 10 years in this industry, someone has. Someone, many people have tried to create a bond when there is not a bond. Someone, these infrastructure funds, some analysts, banks, I'm not talking about the analyst of equity. People that evaluate if they're going to give us money or not. All these people try to became in a risk of energy because they're a producer. You can mitigate the risk, but you can't avoid the risk.
You are not going to try to get a 10% in euros in Spain bond at 30 years. That's impossible. That's impossible. It's a dream. That's impossible. For sure, no, this is impossible. A bond for 10 years here in Spain is at 5%, not 10%. And you are not going to be, for sure, at 10% IRR during the next 30 years. That you can mitigate, and that we are going to do, and we're doing is trying to mitigate with PPAs, with storage, that we are trying to fight for them, and we are developing some projects, or we can hedge for in a synthetic market, 2-3 years of our energy. But just you are... But we are confident that we are going to achieve.
What are our assumptions? Those assumptions until 15 years later, the only assumption is these people throwing a curve, but there is no any other option. There are not guys, there are not Houdini in the magic world that I assure you, you can't. The big utilities that have big internal PPAs can't. Can't, because if the market price goes down, I'm not going to to buy the energy at the same price in 5 years as what I am buying to the big utility today. Then, it's true that the market has deteriorated because these dreams of bonds at 10% in 10-30 years term have disappeared, but it was a lie. It was a lie. It was a lie. It was in something exceptional that they could mix or fix that.
But we have zero cost in the X, in development, against the 300 they have, the competitors that haven't that many competitors. And we have the knowledge to try to improve our storage and our utilization to try to mitigate the risk. Perhaps we have more than this 10% that we expected, but perhaps we have less. Our grandsons will see.
Thank you. Gregor Kuglitsch from UBS. Can I go back to the sort of capacity and growth potential? I think over lunch, you were kind of saying there's a danger of chasing too much growth. There's a bit of capacity questions in the, particularly the Dragados Offshore. So give us an idea what sort of the max pace you could be running at in terms of growth. What's, what's realistic and sustainable for, for a business like yours?
I think that we can improve more, or we could have more potential in growing in the energy projects, but not in Dragados Offshore platforms. Because if we could sell more projects, but because we are selling slots so far today, to today. Perhaps we could grow a little bit more, but not... In terms of revenue per year, in terms of backlog, you know, because if we must build the platform and they awarded in 2040 to deliver in 2040, we are going to increase the backlog, but this is not going to increase the revenue. I think that the revenue in Dragados Offshore, I don't know.
We can ask Pedro, but we are in the limit above 1.2, 1.3, 1.4. We must think in other things. Perhaps in energy, in traditional energy, when energy for third parties, we could increase our backlog. And I think that we could increase our backlog, but not multiply by 3 every year, but in transmission lines, and for sure, in flow business. And the flow business is exploding, eh? I said GDP, but it's growing more than GDP in this year, and I think in the next 2-3 years. Then we have capacity to increase our revenue above the 6, 7.5.
But to be honest with you, we prefer not to be so ambitious in that, trying to give you a good and not news today, than to have a problem in 5 years. But we have capacity to grow above the 7.5, for sure, because, you know, you are not idiots. The part of the 7.5 are poor inflection, you know, poor margins. And in terms of cables, in terms of kilometers, in terms of meters of welding, in terms of things to do, we are not in our peak.
Okay.
Okay.
Then maybe a second question, and maybe it's a part question to you and part question to the VINCI team that did due diligence at the time. I guess the question to the VINCI guys is: What surprised you in the end, compared to the time when you bought it? I guess there was a lot of upside, as you suggested, but kind of the big surprises, perhaps both positive and negative. And then perhaps for you, José María, what's kind of changed as a different shareholder? Has anything really changed for your day-to-day, other than being here with us today, of course?
It's a little bit not so easy to answer to this question because when you do a due dil, at least when I do a due dil, I'm more on, on the defensive side, looking, "Okay, I want to make sure to be sure not to make, you know, mistakes somewhere." A surprise, to be honest, the Dragados Offshore development has been a surprise to me. I knew you were in this oil and gas business, that it was the end of a story, and I knew a new story was coming. You had out of these 14 giga, you quoted you had already 2 in hand at that time. I would not have bet they would have had 14, 14 giga in hands at that, I mean, less than 2 years after. So this, this has been, honestly, a surprise.
I was betting a development, but not at this level. So thank you very much. And yes, if you ask me, the most important surprise is this one. By the way, the EUR 1 billion revenue is an average 2024-2029. It's not next term. Okay. And no.
For us? What has changed for us?
Better or worse. Obviously, it's better, but-
Always it's better, you know. For us, I said in public many times, for us as an industrial company in this business has been... This is not to, you know, to give good words to my owners, but is the best buyer that we could dream about, because he's the biggest industrial services company in Europe, in the world, apart from China. He's a very clear long-term company that support us to invest in long-term too, and to have to choose the right moment to do things without any pressure, and much more than normal pressure. And I say to some of you, you know that we must send our accounts each month to our headquarters, you know?
Each three months, there is a little bit more. I don't receive any call in my life this in the last two years. With the other owners, some calls saying that, "Could you help us in, you know, $100,000?" No. The employees has the 10% of the company, and they are worried about what is going to be in the next years with the company. This is a very important difference. Because the spirit to give to the shareholder as much as we can is in Cobra, yes, and we don't need anyone to remind us that we must create value and send money to our shareholders.
But this calm that we have because our shareholder could wait the best moment to do that, to try to allow us to do things, is very useful for us.
Good afternoon. It's Victor from Société Générale . I have two questions. The first one, if you can update us with the Polo Carmópolis deal, and if that Polo Carmópolis is included in your guidance for 2025. This is the first question. The second question is that, José, if you across within your different divisions, in the next four or five years, if you can identify what type of subsidiary you think, according your, for example, leadership's position in a market growth dynamics, you think that is the one that is more promising within the group? Thank you.
Okay, first with the promise subsidiary, and after that, with the Carmópolis project. That all is a thing that is the white elephant in the room, you know. Okay, about promise. Well, I don't see more promise subsidiary. What I see is that the part of offshore, the networks, the distribution, the distribution, and the transmission activity is going to be our next Dragados Offshore. For sure. We don't have any doubt about it. It's going to be the best and the more profitable next market. Okay? And second one, about Carmópolis. Now, Carmópolis, you know, is something that I am going to try to explain a little bit what is Carmópolis. Okay? Carmópolis was awarded before the acquisition of Cobra by VINCI. Before.
I am not asked to VINCI if they want the project or not, because it was illegal, you know, because they were not the owners. It was awarded before. This is very important to understand the—what is Polo Carmópolis. Before. And after the signing and the first disburse of the money was a process of closing, and we paid the first disburse, 25% of the project, before Cobra was in VINCI. Okay? That's very important. And then we begin the process to close the transaction, and we could do twice. One is close the transaction, and second one is give to Petrobras EUR 275 million as a gift and lose the project. That's twice. I think that second is absurd. Okay? Good.
Then, we begin a process to close and to give the contract because we were not operating the contract in 2022. Maybe one day. Okay? Because we were closing. The project was on Petrobras hands, and they managed and operate the project because we were closing. We have permits, we need some permits, some allowance of the regulator, et cetera. In the middle 2022, okay, for some failures in environmental and in the process of investment, by Petrobras, because was their project, the AAMP, that is the regulator, closed the field. And I don't know if you are familiarity with what is an oil field, but if you stop, production goes to zero.
3, 4 months, and when you open the valves, no dust, this not, this is not water, okay? Doesn't appear again, the production, and you need a ramp. The field is hurt. Okay? Then they do something when during they must do some investments and some reports and so on, and 3 months later, we closed definitively at the end of last year, when we were the owners, was on December of last year... not before, but we were not operating 1 year the field. This is very important to understand. At this moment, they give us a 4,000 barrels per day project. That's what they say, they give us. We expected in our first moment when we paid for first time 25%, we expected that we are going to receive a 7,000 barrels per day project. Okay?
Then, in this year that we have one year in delay, because we expected to begin in 2022, and we began in 2023, we must recover the production that we think that were in our field from the beginning, from scratch. We faced two problems. One is the lack of resources to drill, okay? And the second one is the lack of resources to do workovers that are minor rebuilds of the wells. Okay? Then, we are one year of delay due to the closing of the operation one year later, and another six months of delay in our plans. Okay? Then, what we have now is with much more limited CapEx because we haven't the drill equipment.
Now we are receiving the drill equipment. We have at this December a 10,000 barrels per day project. But you must understand that we expected to have done for this year, at the end of this year, 288 wells, and we only have 3 due to this. But we are going to drill these whole holes, these whole wells in the next year. Then we have a delay of one year, but the project is doing well. It's a little bit more quality due to the finance costs, you know? That is true that with this level of financing, of course, the EBIT is what we expected, but the net profit is below what we expected. Okay? Much below.
Much it is lower. But it's true that at the same time, we are not creating today the barrels that we think that we are going to create. Then, that is this is Polo Carmópolis. Then we are very satisfied with this project. This project was before the acquisition by VINCI, because I, I read something that is maybe. In, and VINCI announced, VINCI, no, the closing. VINCI has these two options. One is write off EUR 300 million or go ahead, try to improve the project and have a strategic review when we could do. That is at least one year after we close, because before that, we can't do anything by the contract. Okay, we can do.
We can open a process to consolidate 50%, imagine, before 1 year, after close the contract. Then next year, in January, we are allowed to begin a process to disconsolidate and... But for now, we are focused on try to improve the field as we expected that it's going to be, and then try to optimize our disconsolidation that is going almost sure to be.
In the guide, in the guidance, is included that project?
No. In the backlog, we have three months of amount. Three months, four months, five, six months, I don't know, but it's not nothing relevant because, you know, this is something that could change the whole accounts of Cobra. Because if we next year, we are consolidating that, it's going to be something that's is could disturb. No.
Okay.
I would like to add a few comments. First, what José María didn't say that Cobra has a very strong and long-standing expertise in providing oil and gas services in order to stimulate the production of oil, but we are not, Cobra is not an oil producer by definition. But in this particular case, the Carmópolis contract was a way to increase the activity in this specific scope of expertise of Cobra. Second, the acquisition of this contract was entirely financed out of an offtaker. So it didn't put pressure on our finance because the offtaker financed it 100% of the deal.
Third, due to the delay with the closing, well, that José María explained, we still have put this project under review, and we intend to sell it finally, but it will take more time because to optimize the return, we have to reach the level of production, which is optimum, which is not done yet, but we are confident that we should reach it in the coming months or years. So we don't want to put excessive pressure because we don't want to make a bad deal, but we even think we can make a good deal. It's just a matter of patience, time to improve the production.
Something more regarding Carmópolis?
... Hello, José María, it's José Manuel Arroyas from Santander. Just a question on, also on the former shareholders of Cobra IS. Based on the current projections for the renewable development pipeline, does Cobra expect to have to pay the maximum amount of earn-outs of EUR 600 million or a lower amount?
It was my own bosses, you know? We have EUR 40 million per gigawatt, you know that. EUR 40 million per gigawatt. There is only one earn-out because people became crazy with earn-out, with the SPV, with the joint venture, with... There is only one earn-out, that is EUR 40 million per gigawatt. Okay. With our projections in 2030, and this is eight years and a half, this is the term. Then with our projection, we are sharing with this red bar that we see before, 480. We can give more than what we develop. If we do more, could be more; if we do less, could be less. But in our forecast, we are projecting, but it's not my issue, you know?
I'm not talking about ICS, but maximum, in two years, we are seeing this 480.
No more, no more question? So if there's no more question, we thank you for attending this meeting and hope to see you next time in another Capital Market Day. And don't hesitate to ask Gregoire and his team if you have further precision to obtain from us. Thank you very much.