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Earnings Call: H2 2023

Apr 17, 2024

Laurent Guillot
Group CEO, emais

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to our emeis web conference. So we're here on behalf of ORPEA SA for our 2023 full-year results. I'm here with Laurent Lemaire, and we're going to be presenting today everything that we have been doing to reshape the company. I'm sure you're all aware that that started back in November 2022. We will also talk about our financials for 2023, which are part of an inflationary backdrop, and the rate increases have not been able to offset that inflationary backdrop. So we'll be talking about our financials for 2023 and our forecast for 2024 and beyond. All that we have been doing is part of an overall change. We changed our name. ORPEA has become emeis. emeis represents both what we are and where we want to go. It is about transformation and change.

It will be presented along with our new corporate purpose at the upcoming General Assembly. We have Laurent who will present us with our consolidated results for 2023. After the presentation, we will be able to happily field any questions. If you're joining us online, you can send in your question by chat in written form. If you're joining us by telephone, you can obviously ask your question yourselves by pressing star one on your phone keypad. Let's get into it. We've got a fairly stock standard type of presentation, three sections. We've got highlights for business right now that we've got our consolidated results that Laurent Lemaire will then present. I will wrap up with the third section of the presentation with conclusion and outlook for the long term. Let's start by talking about our key highlights for 2023.

2023 was quite a busy year, a year of great change for ORPEA SA Group. So obviously, we'll be covering everything that we have done to better serve our employees and our residents. They are the two key priorities for our corporate reshuffle or our overhaul. They are represented by a number of key non-financial indicators that are improving considerably across the board. On top of that, we went through some financial restructuring, which was finalized at the beginning of 2024. So our level of debt has been considerably dropped, and we've continued with real estate disposals throughout 2023. New identity as well. I spoke about that just a few seconds ago. We kicked it off end of last year and really brought through beginning of this year. And that was our CREATE program. So that is to ramp up and push through our company's overall transformation.

Again, finally, it was all to improve our financials. That will lead us into the outlooks that we have for 2024 and beyond. Let's start now by talking about our employees and our residents. As you probably remember, the targets we set ourselves were some top priorities. We had to really put the means on the table so that we could ensure our employees could do their job safely and comfortably so that they could then properly care for our residents. Because obviously, our teams, our professionals, we need to constantly help them improve their performance. In terms of health and safety at work, the number of work-related accidents, which is something that we really focus on in great detail, dropped actually by 8 points. It went from about 33 accidents per million hours worked down to 25 for 1 million of worked hours.

So it's 33 down to 25. And that had a huge positive impact on our general appeal and attractiveness. Obviously, that had an impact on absenteeism, on happiness, and satisfaction of employees. So it is a fundamental indicator that we're going to focus on, that we have been focusing on. Now, on top of that, we also put a lot of money into training, which is really important for us to be able to have sustainable financials. We're also managed to recruit more people, have some more part-time employees work with us, which meant that overall, that lowered the cost of recruitment. And that feeds into our long-term results in terms of a top-quality workplace environment and generally improving our overall financials. This is just a quick reminder of what we've been doing. We completely overhauled a few of our areas in business, which were actually failing.

That was predominantly when it came to employee representation. We completely renewed the representative bodies for better labor relations. Obviously, we want to end up with a system which is much more robust in the long term. I spoke a few seconds ago about training and the investment that we put into training. What we need to remember is that this is very important for all of our French managers. We have 1,200 staff members that we want to have trained by the end of 2024. That's part of the Impact program. We have four classes going through right up to September 2025. It's so that our managers have the right skills and capabilities. We want to make sure that they are properly aware of all types of performance speed in terms of quality finance, managerial performance.

Because once again, we want to boost our performance in France for those key points. Now, obviously, all of this is to help us boost performance in terms of satisfaction both for employees and our residents. And we have been able to see that translate in improvement in quality of care. And all of that is thanks to the ongoing improvement programs that we've been putting in place. So we had a number of SAE declared events in France, 2,177. So we've got improved reporting closure. We ended up with some solid levels in terms of certification, 98% certification in France. In terms of satisfaction, so we have a number of external surveys. So that means that all of the surveys and questionnaires that we're performing are fully transparent.

We can see that they are considerably up on last year from 90%-92.4% and a net promoter score, which is also considerably up from 21-33. On top of that, we have also ramped up efforts to improve ethics and provide positive treatment. Also, we have better relations with our families. On top of that, we have also improved healthcare and nursing. We have really focused on transforming both the service we provide and how we provide it. Better quality, better security, as I've already mentioned a little earlier. But we've also provided ways for our healthcare and nursing staff to be more efficient. We've really been doing a lot of work in that specific area. Moving on to the second main highlight, we've had some major improvements in terms of both the financial and extra-financial performance.

This has a direct impact on our staff, on our residents, and also on the long term, especially when it comes to our overall financials and long-term financials. So the financial restructuring is now finished. It actually was finalized at the beginning of 2024, pretty much since the 21st of March. And along with that, we also have new governance and new governing bodies. And also considerable real estate disposals that we have continued to push through towards end of 2023. So I'm sure that you remember all of this started back in 2022 when we presented our restructuring plan and continued through to 2023 with EUR 3.9 billion of unsecured debt put through as equity.

Then we also had cash injection of EUR 1.2 billion. Then we also had 0.4 in cash injection through rights issues. That was at the beginning of this year. We also have a new board.

With that new board, we obviously have more seats at the table for the new major shareholders, Caisse des Dépôts, MAIF, MACSF, and CNP Assurances. They represent about 50.2% of overall shares. So as you can see, we've been able to drastically drop our level of debt by the end of that entire process. What's important to bear in mind is that we continued through 2023. We'll continue at four in 2024. We'll continue to bolster our financials by continuing to divest out of certain real estate holdings. So we're able to sell off about EUR 250 million by end of 2023. We brought in EUR 300 million by end of 2022. So we're actually well ahead of the schedule that we'd put in place. This is important in terms of both real estate but also financial restructuring. Those two together, they were quite challenging.

But that said, we are quite optimistic for the future, especially for 2024. Because, again, with the financial restructuring and given the fact that the general economic backdrop is quite challenging, but there are more opportunities with other market operators, we should be able to reach our overall target of EUR 500 million divestment, sorry, EUR 450 million by 2024. And there should be some key real estate operations or transactions coming through, either divestments or sale and lease back. And now they should come through in 2024, 2025. Again, it depends on market conditions. It depends on the price that prospective buyers are willing to put forward. Now, I'm sure you're all aware that we changed our identity because we are now going to operate from a commercial point of view under the name of emeis.

This is a brand that we ultimately want to have adopted by the 2024 general meeting. It'll be a change of brand. It'll be a change of visual identity and also corporate purpose. This is part of an ongoing process where we were able to re-identify our four new values. That came through in May 2023. The four key values are a Commitment to People, a Taste for Life, a Thirst to Learn, and a Spirit of Mutual Aid. This is something that we brought through in 2023, but we're to keep rolling them out because these are the four fundamental values. We want to operate all together. 2024 is going to be the brand visual identity and corporate purpose change. And then we will push it to the 2025 general meeting where we'll be pushing for a mission-led status.

Again, we wanted to also bring about a fundamental shift when it came to management. That program was called CREATE by our teams. Now, the reason behind this is that we wanted to really make all of our countries fully push through the transformation plan. So obviously, the four main priorities: employees, patients, residents, society. We want to have a positive economic and social impact. And also for our stakeholders because, again, the financial and the economic viability of the company is absolutely essential so that ultimately we can become a group where we look after our teams, we take care of our teams, where we reach gold standard, that we have operational efficiency and financial sustainability, and obviously that we can innovate. So this is the fundamental definition of our program. We called it CREATE.

CREATE because each letter represents the key values that we want to all embody as a whole. We wanted to push this through via a number of key cross-cutting projects across all of our key business lines. We want central governance with local management teams. We have monthly reviews. We have quarterly reviews as well through the executive committee for all of the support functions. We also have a quarterly review for local roadmaps, again, with each country. We have a transformation division there to coordinate everything that is being done. Here are a few examples of what is included within the CREATE program. Again, this is just a few examples out of all 48 key examples of initiatives.

So there are, again, just to give an example of something that we did back in 2023, we actually closed down or shut down 11 sites in 2023. So that's because we have a new methodology to identify sites that are struggling. So we also have a program for best practices when it comes to ramp up. And we're starting to see that come through. We've also been able to have prices differentiated from one segment to another. And that's what we're rolling out in France predominantly because that comes with its own set of advantages. But also on the flip side, it's helped us really focus more on marketing so that we can increase our occupancy rate. And this is something that was completely new that we hadn't in the past. On top of that, we also looked at all of our apps that we're using.

So we have plenty of map apps used in all of our sites. So we rationalized that, streamlined all of that so that we could make all of our processes as streamlined as possible from an operational point of view. And we really looked into all of our procurement processes as well and our purchasing processes, completely overhauled all of that. So that is with an overall objective of EUR 35 million-EUR 40 million as soon as 2024. Again, with the ultimate goal of it helping our company's financials. That's it for the path. Now looking at 2023, 2024. So 2024, we are looking at a considerable increase in revenue, a 9.5% increase of organic growth. Also an occupancy rate which is increasing, which accounts for 2% of that overall revenue growth. We can also see a 3.6% increase, which comes from a progressive price rise.

As we saw in 2023, Q2-Q3, we went through inflationary tendencies in both France and Europe. So our prices didn't follow on directly in line. But now they are picking up. And that is having a major impact on our 2023 revenue. But at the same time, you also have a cost increase. But we've tried to offset that with our restructuring, which means our EBITDA margin is now at 13.4%, which is actually down compared to what we have already seen. That said, for 2024, as I said back last year, so when we spoke about when we met for our half-year results, our margin is actually up for the first half of the year. So our margin is up. So I think we hit an all-time low. But then we are picking up. So we saw a positive increase over the second half.

Once again, we're already seeing the margin increasing so far in 2024. Attributable net profit. Now, that has been under a positive effect thanks to all of the financial restructuring that we have been through. And also because the shares have increased where our assets have improved. So also thanks to the capital increase for about EUR 2.8 billion, a bit over EUR 2.8 billion. That leaves us with an overall attributable net profit of just over EUR 1.3 billion. Now, what can we say about the 2024 outlook? We're expecting to see a more considerable growth in terms of EBITDA in 2024 compared to the current trend that we have already seen in 2023. We're going to see it increase to about 15%-20%. That'll put us in a bracket between EUR 800 million and EUR 835 million.

Now, that is under our initial forecast when we were talking about our capital increase. But it is still considerably up, about EUR 120 million up in terms of EBITDA. Now, that is predominantly expected to come through thanks to our increased occupancy rate in the world. As you can see, we have already seen proof of that in the first quarter of 2024, which is already up two points on 2023 first quarter. But it's also thanks to structural measures that we're putting in place, predominantly in France, to really get back to a better situation in our nursing homes. So we have put in place a number of measures to optimize all of our investments.

Also, as I said just a few seconds ago, we have already done as much as we can to continue with our real estate disposals, again, depending on market conditions and to make sure that we can agree to a satisfactory price. That's it for me for my introductory remarks for all of our general business points. Now I'm going to hand over to Laurent Lemaire, who will go into the financials.

Laurent Lemaire
Group CFO, emais

Thank you, Laurent. Good morning to you all. So I'm going to run through the key figures for the year 2023, starting with the section concerning the change in revenue by geographies. You saw earlier revenue over the period is up 11% on a reported basis, 9.5% organic. The gap's essentially due to the scope changes that occurred during the year. If we revert to the equations mentioned by Laurent, sustained growth with a significant increase in the occupancy rate at the nursing homes in France. But it's a reality in the rest of the world, which, as mentioned below the chart, the opening of 31 new facilities over the year, as Laurent mentioned, just under 4% price component that unfortunately doesn't offset the inflation-related aspects of the year. We'll return to that when we look at EBITDA. To the change in operated facilities and beds by the company.

So the definition of in operation, number of facilities that's open and marketing, 992 at the end of 2022, 1,031 in 2023, an increase of 39. We opened 31. Also, scope changes that occurred during the course of the year, both entry and exit. So the net balance is + 39. That's an increase of about 4% in the number of facilities that appeared on the right. Number of beds, 93,470 beds at the end of the year, 2.9%, 1% gap between the two. Quite a few openings in the Netherlands where we have an unusual setup in the Netherlands where we have facilities at 2025 that explains the mismatch between the two figures. Now, change in occupancy rate on the left, you see the full year performance, the increase of 1.5 points globally, going from 86 to 86.3.

All the others, except for the first line, all the others are up. 2.7 Central Europe, 3.8 Eastern Europe, 5.6 Iberia, Latam. The top line minus 0.2, too, is, of course, impacted by French performance, more specifically the nursing homes because the occupancy rates of clinics in France is up. So it was down 0.2 points over the period there in France. If we look now on the right of the slide, you have the phasing of the rate between H1 and H2. As Laurent said, we have an H2 dynamic in 2023, which is the beginning of the recovery phase, 82.7-83.8. You see the top line with France. We're back in positive territory between H1 and H2. So that's for the occupancy rate. The takeaway, aside from nursing homes in France, significant growth across geographies. Turning now to the EBITDA margin by geography.

On the upper part, you see the drivers that summarize the year with the occupancy rate that we've just seen that contributes positively, of course, to EBITDA recovery. The inflationary context, unfortunately, that continued into 2023 after 2022 with a slightly different mix. We had a strong energy component in 2022 that no longer exists in 2023. But we can say that we continued to have quite substantial wage pressure by way of an example, a government decision in Germany early 2023 where the pay of caregivers was up 20%. Unfortunately, prices didn't follow that immediately. As said, we have a price component that was favorable over the period. But from the P&L standpoint, not enough and too late to offset all the cost increases. Looking briefly at the left of the slide, you have the overall amounts with the exception of the first line.

Everyone's up or flat across Central Europe, around zero. A decrease in volume at the top, essentially impacted by France that we mentioned earlier. Also a challenging area in terms of economic performance, which is Belgium that's also part of that equation. Turning now to the group total, we landed at EUR 696 million. Our guidance was at EUR 690 million, was slightly above the guidance given. But compared to a figure of last year of EUR 780 million, so down 10.7% over the period if we look at the numbers on the right, we have delivered 13.4% to be compared with 16.7%. That's about 300 basis points difference, quite logically. The strongest pressure is seen in France, Benelux, U.K., and Ireland with a decrease of 400 basis points. But you see the next two lines, Central and Eastern Europe, which, as we saw earlier, had significant occupancy rate recoveries.

We weren't able to maintain the margin. We're able to defend the EBITDA of the peer with revenue sharply up. And so a dilutive effect across these two zones, around 200 basis points. The only country where we've managed to up the margin rate in parallel with a strong increase in the occupancy rate is Spain that delivered a very good recovery over 2023 and also managed to leverage inflationary pressure that was slightly lower. That accounts for the fact that the EBITDA margins sharply up, whereas in other geographies, pressure was stronger on wages. So that's the overall equation over the perio d.

Turning now to the key aggregates with a consolidated group perspective. On the left, you have the full year. As said previously, we lost 300 bps over the period. We lost 200 on staff costs that came in at 66.7% over the period, an increase of some 2%.

Another third, just over 100 bps , 120 bps on other expenses leading to the 326 bps As I said earlier, the line of other expenses is under strong pressure across countries. Especially for food, we have countries where food costs in 2023 continued to grow by 10% versus 2022. So that accounts for this worsening of 120 basis points on the other expenses line. Looking at the right of the slide, you have the phasing H1, H2. That's where we see once again that in H2, we see the beginnings of an improvement leading us with Laurent to expect that at the end of H1 2023, we reached the low point at margins. That gradually, we're seeing the company turn around as we move into H2. Those are the key takeaways regarding EBITDA.

Let's now address some of the items that below EBITDA that are important to understand, the financials for the first IAS 36 impairment, both on tangible and intangible assets. 31 December 2023, we booked an impairment of EUR 830 million, of which EUR 438 million related to right of use assets under IFRS 16. It's a new approach that we implemented in FY 2023 aimed at performing tests post IFRS 16 that gradually the market will be adopting. We're reporting our results post IFRS 16. But very often, we perform impairment tests that were pre-IFRS 16 that prevailed through to the end of 2022 at peers. So we changed this approach in 2023. In the EUR 830 million that I've just cited, there are EUR 438 million that result from this new approach.

What’s important to understand, they’re not important on real estate assets because IFRS 16 writes the value, the balance sheet value of leased assets. So it’s an impairment on these rights in the balance sheet. It doesn’t affect the real estate asset value. It’s really booked. It has no cash impact. But we need to book those as we’ve done this year. Returning to pre-IFRS impairment, that’s box number one. We tested 837 facilities over the year , 173. There was obviously an increase in WACC interest rates reaching 7.3%. And during the course of our 2023 plan, we modeled the BPs of all our facilities worldwide, leading to in the DCF to book this impairment. We disclosed on 18 th January and 16th February on potential impairments in the group’s accounts of some EUR 400 million. So we will refer to the application of pre-IFRS 16.

Then below, you have the 438 linking to this line of EUR 830 million right of the slide. That's for the impairment test. To the non-recurring items, well, the bulk of the one-offs, EUR 903 million stem from these 830. On the rest, EUR 74 million. Third are essentially expenses linked to restructuring or rather the group reorg. As well as indicated in the box, most of the expenses relating to financial restructuring were deducted from additional paid-in capital, not in the P&L. Don't impact the P&L. So these are essentially all the reorgs conducted that represent part of this EUR 74 million. Turning now to financial income for the top right, you have all the items. Last year, we had an expense of EUR 319 million. And here, we have any of income EUR 2.319 billion. We did the chart just to clarify.

EUR 2.319 billion, EUR 2.85 billion financial income from the capital increase. It's the first capital increase that we undertook. The logic is we had EUR 3.8 billion in debt. The creditors received about EUR 30 million in stock. The remainder is the EUR 3.85 billion booked in the P&L as proceeds during the year as indicated. No impact on cash or taxes. It's purely accounting. It's a way of booking this debt mechanism, excluding this EUR 2.8 billion cost of minus a financial cost of - EUR 500 million, more - EUR 459 million. That's the interest on the net financial debt. That's excluding hedging. So it's the amount before interest rate hedging. That amount yields up EUR 216 million over 2022.

Two main drivers to that, increased interest rates, but also quite substantially the fact that as part of the financial restructuring in 2022, we had one half with a 2% credit spread.

And then we had a half at 475. We did the full year 2023 at a credit spread of 475, as indicated in the final bullet point of the first box. Since December 2023, we're down again to 2%. But that had hardly no impact on FY 2023, hence the increase in financial expenses. But in 2024, we'll do the full year with 2% spread over the over EUR 3 billion that we have with the French banks. And then -EUR 72 billion of other financial expenses. Third, mainly all the real estate financing costs under IFRS 16 net of certain items of income, including hedging, to be found in the box above on the rates for EUR 44 million.

So these are the key takeaways. EUR 2.85 billion that contaminate quite strongly that line and the net income. So net profit overhaul, 696 EBITDA, and EBITDA EUR 652 million. Provision for 667.

That's down over last year quite logically. Financial result, EUR 2.850 billion proceeds on that one-offs, minus EUR 903 million. And we saw that almost all of that is IAS 36, EUR 1.355 billion. If you want to normalize this amount to have performance excluding major one-offs, you have to reduce this amount by EUR 2.850 billion. IAS 36, the tax on that is about EUR 200 million, EUR 800 million, - EUR 200 million. That's EUR 600 million. That helps you have a normalized take on the performance of 2023 in terms of net income. Let's now move to real estate financing and balance sheet. A first word about the real estate assets.

As indicated at the top, we've changed the accounting method at the end of 2022. We've discarded the historical approach of marking to market all the real estate assets on the basis of annual appraisals. And we've moved to historical value.

So to preserve visibility on the group's real estate assets we announced last year that we would report at the end of each year, give the value of the real estate portfolio based on independent appraisals. You have this chart below that shows that at the end of 2023, EUR 6.3 billion the asset and in that, you have EUR 5.3 billion from appraised real estate assets. And as indicated on the right, 414 facilities. Between the two periods, the values increased by EUR 400 million. And obviously, it's not an increase of the value. It's there are scope impacts of certain assets under construction, various mechanisms. As mentioned in the chart below, the yield used was 5.6% up, 50 basis points versus last year. And the result of this increase in the yield by 50 basis points that's about EUR 400 million of value reduction over the period.

That's for the real estate value. It's appraised asset value, not balance sheet. Next, you have a chart that we've already showed you last year that gives you the bridge between the balance sheet and the assets. Starting with the right of the slide, there you see the EUR 6.3 billion in the gray block of the asset value. And in blue, in the balance sheet, we have EUR 4.8 billion, which means that today, on the basis of previously mentioned appraisals for assets, we have EUR 1.5 billion of gap in value between the value of the real estate and our balance sheet and the externalized asset values in the chart shown previously. If you refer to the left of the slide, you have last year's mechanism.

You see that the red block, which is the difference between the 2022 balance sheet and fair value, is of the same order at EUR 1.5 billion. We've kept the same differential between the two years, between the balance sheet and the fair value estimated for the company. Next, let's move to the company's financing table. At the bottom line, you have the change in net financial debt. We've gone from 8.758 last year to EUR 4.642 billion, obviously, in the change. That includes the impact of all the financial restructuring to be found in the line with the comments that we see EUR 1.160 billion in cash and the impact of debt equitization for EUR 3.323 billion.

Obviously, at December 31st, we only did two of the capital increases, the amount of EUR 1,160,000,000 and increased the EUR 393 million of the third capital increase that occurred in February. Moving down the table, top down, there are CapExes of EUR 141 million over the period, broadly similar to last year's split. EUR 105 million for maintenance and 36 for IT. Other operating flows, including change in working capital. That was a significant cash burn of EUR 140 million mentioned in the box on the right. The fact that just under half of 149 million, 16 million, that's a management decision to normalize salary settlement periods in France. Previously, the mechanism was to pay salaries in France the following month. Group management decided to reverse to more common practice. So the impact is EUR 60 million structurally. Next, the real estate investments there that are continuing to drop.

We started just over EUR 1 billion. We ended the year at EUR 638 million. We continue to reduce the CapEx of the company this year at the end of 2023, EUR 15 million. Doesn't mean that going forward, we don't plan to expand. The only issue is that we won't do it on our for our own equity. But of course, we can open facilities with developers and lease the premises. But we're reducing our fund, our own funding. Non-current, EUR 145 million that increases the cash component on overall restructuring. That of P&L as Anne indicated on financial restructuring via capital increase. On the asset management, we have net over EUR 138 million. That's a real estate disposal in 2023 of EUR 146 million. With a real estate disposal of also over EUR 146 million, that would give you a total of EUR 292 million.

That is the number that Laurent mentioned in his introduction, that we've cashed in about EUR 300 million on the years 2022, 2023, with the commitment of EUR 250 million that agreement which we had with our bank disposals, essentially in Netherlands, Austria, and Germany, with full year in 2023, attractive yields of the order of 4.5% in spite of difficult market conditions. Next, charge of EUR 308 million. That's logically up, given what I show you in the P&L at the bottom, as we saw the capital increases and positive change, a reduction in net debt of EUR 4.116 billion, leading to EUR 4.642 billion in debt. That's for the detail of the financing table.

Just returning briefly to the structure of our debt as at December 31st, we had a net of EUR 5.321 billion, EUR 3 billion of the financing of June 2022, which was the first part of the financial restructuring, with the G6 group, which is the core of the French banks providing that funding. We have EUR 1.7 billion in debt. At 99% is essentially mortgage loans and financial leases for the underpinning the EUR 6 billion in assets and other debt for EUR 587 million. EUR 5.3 billion. We had EUR 645 million in Treasury, with, of course, incorporating IFRS. EUR 4.642 billion. That's the debt to be found in the balance sheet.

I'll show you in a moment. We look at the breakdown of the debt, almost 60% of the gross debt stemming from the G6 funding facility and about a third from mortgage loans. That's for the debt structure.

Turning now to the debt maturity profile of the group, as shown on the chart on screen, for years 2024, 2025, 2026, we have contained maturities to be mentioned that we've incorporated in this chart, the EUR 400 million of RCF maturing in 2026, which potentially could be maturing renewed. So if you remove the EUR 400 million in 2026, we're about EUR 500 million of debt reimbursements on the next three years, 2024, 2025, 2026. We have EUR 500 million- EUR 700 million debt to be repaid every year. The bulk of the repayment occurs in 2027, with about EUR 2.5 billion in 2027. That, for the most part, is the secured funding of June 2022 for the G6.

That's for debt maturity. Balance sheet, a few words on the items, our assets, where you have the line items of the companies. The main change, the right-of-use assets, that's the reduction of EUR 400 million.

That's the impairment on the IFRS 16 right-of-use assets, EUR 438 million. Item 2 on Treasury, we ended the year with EUR 600 million in cash. At the end of the year, we wouldn't draw on our RCF. We still have EUR 400 million available undrawn on the assets held for sale. That's IFRS 5. EUR 500 million of assets held for sale. Those are real estate assets, all the real estate assets where we had an LOI. That's our pipe. That's in line with the disposals mentioned by Laurent. Moving to the liabilities, equity up quite sharply, -EUR 1.5 billion to -EUR 1.9 billion, as I mentioned earlier.

Three isn't included. That'll contribute for just under EUR 400 million in 2024. And if you add up the two lines of the debt mentioned under box two, we have a debt of EUR 4.3 billion at the end of FY 2023. That's it from me.

Laurent Guillot
Group CEO, emais

Thank you very much, Laurent, for such an in-depth presentation of our financials. So if I could just quickly wrap up with a few concluding remarks. 2023 was a year where we finalized our financial restructuring. It's also a year where we're able to properly roll out and implement our reorganization plan, our transformation plan, with some major breakthroughs, some which have already come through to improve the quality of the care provided to our residents and patients, but also really helping our staff. As we saw, the occupancy rate was really up around the world. 2024 is also continuing that trend, especially in France. In our retirement homes, we have a 1.2% increase in occupancy rate. We've also seen some major changes in France that should bear fruit in the coming year. As you saw, operational profitability is also increasing in the first half of the year.

We saw that already bearing fruit between the first and second halves of the year last year. Now, also for a long-term vision, we are still in a specific business which, unfortunately for the general population, is a growing industry because the general population, it is aging. The aging population needs specific care, retirement homes, nursing homes, at-home care. That market base is continually increasing. Again, it is an area where we provide a lot of services. We also provide a lot of services in terms of psychological care. That is another area which is considerably growing for our business. All of that is underpinned by a number of key underlying trends that is really, really buoying up our business. We have some solid positions in some key countries in Europe.

We have some really unique expertise which sets us out from the crowd, especially when it comes to mental health, when it comes to old age. We can see that predominantly with our clinics and our retirement homes or our nursing homes; we really provide a unique service. We can bolster that with more skilled teams, thanks to the training that we can provide to them, but also thanks to the innovation that we can provide, predominantly digital innovation. In addition to those strong skill sets, we can also play a fundamental role as a public-private company or actor when it comes to providing age-specific services. On top of that, we are also going to continually rebalance our pricing over the year. Again, 2022, 2023 was marked by a very quick uptick in inflation. We weren't necessarily able to offset that with our prices.

But we're going to adjust for that going forward. We actually have the ability to bit by bit rebalance our prices. We're going to be pushing that through with a commercial strategy which we've completely overhauled with offer segmentation, with more expenditure going into marketing practices, which is not something that we really did in the past. So thanks to that, we're going to be able to push through increases in prices and also fight against the senior sector, the price and cost effect that we really saw in 2022 and 2023. The third point I want to touch on is that we have strong potential for M&As in terms of performance. We've got a long-term support.

We also have an entire plan through CREATE, which is the program I spoke of a little earlier, to get us back to specific standards in our clinics, both in France and abroad, with better operation because, again, it hasn't been up to par in the recent past. We're going to bring it up to par and move above and beyond with positive increases, 15%-20% in the coming year. Also, we have an asset portfolio outside of Europe with plenty of opportunities, especially when looking at both outside of Europe, but also even our underperforming facilities within Europe. All of this is being supported by a much more stable financial position. That's why we have both short-term trends and long-term megatrends that are really in our favor. That's why we're very optimistic for emeis in the long term.

Now, if it's all okay with you, it's time. We now move to questions where Laurent and myself will field any of your questions. I think it'd be good if we started with questions that we have by phone, or shall we start with those written here in the chat? I guess we've got a first question here. So far, there are no questions coming in over the phone. Let's take the ones we have here that have been sent in by text. Laurent, can you tell us a bit about the EBITDA R to EBITDA shift? And can you tell us a bit about that and the impact of rent on revenue? Obviously, this takes into account IFRS norms and standards.

Laurent Lemaire
Group CFO, emais

[Foreign language]. What I suggest. I'm not going to answer the question in detail.

If you refer to the press release, you'll find all the bridges in Chapters 4, 5, and so on while you find all the relevant information on the bridges between the two. And you'll also find the detail of IFRS, rental costs, EUR 414 million in 2022, EUR 448 million in 2023. But you'll find the full detail. And the bridge is in the release.

Laurent Guillot
Group CEO, emais

So EUR 414 million in rent, IFRS 16. So that's about 9% in revenue. Hopefully, that answers the question that came in. Another question about reworking our prices. Are you quite happy with the way it has come through, especially in psychiatric care? Okay, this is a unique question to France. Well, actually, predominantly in France, but we also have SSR and psychiatric services in Germany, Austria, and price changes which are very different from one country to the next.

We are seeing strong improvements in terms of pricing, with high single-digit improvements in the two countries that I just mentioned, so Germany and Austria. Now, as for France, when it comes to increasing prices in SSR and psychiatric in 2024, we've got a 1.1% increase. So are we happy with that? No, it's not enough. We will continue to discuss that with the governing bodies, with the respective authorities. But we feel it could be a bit better, especially when we compare it to other divisions. We're going to see exactly what we are providing in the different facilities to see how we can try and increase that. When it comes to psychiatric care, we still don't have feedback from the authorities. We know that there is a lot of support said to come through from the government.

So we're going to continue negotiating with the French government to see what we can get out of that. Moving on to the next question. The government has decided to increase pay for weekends in the public healthcare system. What about the private healthcare system? Do you not feel that if you don't change, then it's going to be unfair or there's going to be certain inequalities? Well, that is a public decision for the public sector. We haven't decided to do the same. Now, we feel that we already pay a fair rate for our employees. Now, again, our employees, they don't or they aren't going to get the same pay increase as what we are seeing in the public sector. But that said, we will continue to provide attractive pay.

Again, ultimately, this boils down to the issue of general appeal and pay appeal, in particular when you're looking at our retirement homes, our nursing homes, compared to those ones run by the public sector. So we're going to continue to champion what we provide. And obviously, compared to the government-run retirement homes, we can still quite happily find employees. And we're having no problems when it comes to recruiting. While yes, the industry is suffering a few issues just here and there, generally speaking, we aren't really suffering from that. Now, actually, if we come back to what I was saying at the beginning of the presentation, we were talking about the quality of our workplaces for our teams. We are starting to reap the benefits of the work that we're doing with absenteeism, which is dropping.

And generally speaking, we are having more long-term teams and top-quality care and support provided by our teams. Again, this is a long-term trend that we're seeing coming through. And ultimately, that is making our retirement homes, our nursing homes, the most attractive on the job market. So it's more than just pay. I would say, in fact, that pay is the least important criteria, especially when compared to the quality of the workplace that we can provide. And that is what makes us an appealing employer to work for. That applies to France, but it applies also to countries outside of France. Another question here. So we have one here in English, EBITDA performance.

A brand new program and comparatively better performance experience in the second half of 2023, the company is heading up. When will we see the reflection of things better performance on stock price?

[Foreign language]. Action.

Okay, to answer your question, we don't provide forecasts for our share price. That's up to the share market and stock market operators to answer that sort of question. We'd just like to say that yes, we have seen an improvement compared to 2023. And we said back in 2023 that we had hit a record low and we expected things to increase. They did increase. We expect things to also improve in terms of the extra -financials, but also the financials will follow. And EBITDA will also continue to increase in 2024. Laurent, I've got another question for you for EBITDA and price.

Laurent Lemaire
Group CFO, emais

So you're asking us, we have a question here asking if we can give new guidance on the plan. Would you want to? I'll take this one.

So we have brought out a new perspective on 2024 stemming from an update in 2024. Short term, we'll disclose nothing on a revision of the plan because in June, we'll be starting a new strategic plan cycle, obviously, with the vision of our new shareholders. If you refer to the release, we have a sentence on that saying that by the end of the year, we should land with a multi-year vision of the group's pathway trajectory. So today, we don't have reliable and adequate information to give a revision of the corporate plan. We haven't integrated the strategy of our new shareholders in the plan. So we'll have to wait till the end of the year for that.

Laurent Guillot
Group CEO, emais

We have another question here. We've got a lot of questions here. We'll try and answer them all together. So what assets are going to divest?

So I imagine here you're talking about our real estate assets. There are a few small businesses outside Europe. Obviously, we need to clean up that part of our business given our geographic portfolio changes that are going to come through. Predominantly, our assets are going to be real estate assets that are going to be sold off, some in Europe, in France, Germany, Spain. We have already divested a number of our assets in the Netherlands. Now, in terms of the quality of these real estate assets, now they are strong assets. These are assets where there may have been a few operational issues, but we want to hold on to those places where we can improve operations. Or if we can't, then we'll divest. We want to keep our asset portfolio quite active.

What is going to be the price effect in 2024 in France and outside of France? Laurent, do you want to answer that one? I'll start out. So in terms of the price effect outside of France, it's quite dynamic. We have really seen price improvements in Germany, Austria, Spain. If anything, I would say that the price effect is ramping up outside of France despite the fact that inflation is slowing down. So that is going to make us more profitable outside of France. Now, in France, there are two effects at place. So we have price increases in clinics, which is quite limited simply because it depends primarily on government-decided prices. Now, that said, we do have some power over our revenue when it comes to occupancy. So we have been able to increase prices quite considerably, around 5%-10%.

So 10% for our current residents or just a little over 5%. And then anywhere between 5%-10% for our new residents. Again, that's to offset the negative price-cost effect that we've seen over the recent years. So again, a strong price effect there to offset that. What is the share of SMR in the overall mix? That's about a third of the global turnover group. What is the 2024 pay increase going to be? Well, I imagine this is a question for France. Well, we still haven't finalized the compulsory pay negotiations that we have in France. So we don't know exactly where that's going to land. But obviously, it will reflect the business's current situation. The business situation, the slowdown of inflation, shouldn't be too high. Which zone is going to have the biggest margin increases in 2024?

Laurent Lemaire
Group CFO, emais

Well, broadly speaking, I'd say Central Europe on average and Germany. Those are the two areas where we have a fair number of drivers that should allow us to significantly grow both in volume and margins. What sort of visibility do you have for your $500 million investment? Well, as things stand, we have an active pipe. You've seen in the balance sheet at the end of 2020, $500 million in assets held for sale, IFRS 5. So we had LOIs, active work by all the real estate teams with two strategies that Laurent mentioned at the start of the presentation. Tactical with portfolios from $50 million-$150, $200 million deals. We're working on broader deals. We're beginning to see the beginnings of a possible improvement, certain investors returning. So we're really working flat out to find capacities, counterparties for more substantial deals than those I've just mentioned.

So quite a few opportunities in the offering leading us to believe that we're on the trajectory mentioned.

Laurent Guillot
Group CEO, emais

Yes, so definitely we're on track to reach the $500 million that we announced for 2024. We are also going to target some bigger transactions. Now, we still don't know whether some of those big ones are going to come through in closing in 2024 or 2025. It depends on market appetite. Now, that said, if we take into account my own experience over the past two years, I would say that some of our businesses are really dynamic right now, really pulling in interesting investors.

Laurent Lemaire
Group CFO, emais

[Foreign language] There was the Cannes trade Fair showing keen interest from international investors for real estate in France, the healthcare center. We must be prudent, but it's an encouraging sign. [Foreign language] . What's going to stop the increase in occupancy rates?

Laurent Guillot
Group CEO, emais

Okay, for occupancy rate in France, well, I think that we've seen a positive increase between the first and second half of the year last year. But if anything, I would say that if we look at all of France, not just for emeis, there has been a fairly slow uptick in terms of occupancy rate. Now, that's a France-wide trend. Obviously, we were affected by a scandal about two years ago, and that had a major impact on the entire industry. So obviously, if we want to improve that, we're going to have to constantly improve the quality of services that we provide by also constantly improving the way we communicate on that and by improving our brand image. I'm sure you can perfectly understand how our brand name was quite hard-hit.

Also, we can push through our commercial activities. So our sales teams can really work on that. So we need to make sure that our teams are really getting back to something hard-hitting. Now, that said, it is going to take a bit of time, certainly more than expected. Could you tell us about your updated forecasts for your midterm retention rate? I think if we go back to when we presented the plan on 15 November 2022, we were anywhere between 50%-20%. I think we're up to 40%. So we still need to improve that. So if we go from 40% to 20%, that's a bit over EUR 3 billion in assets we need to divest. So there's quite a long way to go. And I think it's going to take a few quarters to get through to that.

Can you tell us about your real estate? Obviously, we work with consultancy agencies. We work with advisory firms. We have to go through all of the necessary due diligence. So we're still preparing some key transactions. Again, it is all in line with the plan that we outlined at the end of last year.

Laurent Lemaire
Group CFO, emais

Yeah, there's one that I can take. Someone joined the call late and that the CFO made a comment about potentially extending the D1 tranche. I know that guy said that. I just indicated that in the maturity, there were $400 million of RCF in 2026. My general comment was we couldn't integrate it as such in the maturity. But I didn't mention an extension of the D1 tranche.

Laurent Guillot
Group CEO, emais

So I've got another question here for you. The Opco-Propco structure to have the market separately realize the value of real estate.

Is your compensation package being adjusted to include a significant equity award to better align incentives with shareholders? [Foreign language] .

Laurent Lemaire
Group CFO, emais

As of today, no plans for an Opco, Propco split. We're not there. Even if there was an equity partnership, I mean, a Propco of all the assets, just a vehicle where we would house part of the real estate. But we're not in that phase yet today. So I think it's highly premature to talk about such a setup going forward. [Foreign language] .

Laurent Guillot
Group CEO, emais

So obviously, everything is in the IFRS reports.

You should have everything there so that you can understand exactly where we stand.

Laurent Lemaire
Group CFO, emais

And we, in-house, were increasingly thinking in that mode. So as to clearly separate performance analysis, which wasn't the case previously in the company, made the comprehension difficult. So we're heading in that direction in our day-to-day management. We're not there for the stock market part yet.

Laurent Guillot
Group CEO, emais

And about the compensation package and whether there are going to be significant equity awards there, so this is something which will be put forward to or was put forward to the 2023 general meeting. And it will be, again, presented in 2024 at the annual meeting. The compensation package, obviously, is in part connected to the long-term incentive plan, which is in itself tied to the share price. And it is obviously all going to be aligned.

Laurent Lemaire
Group CFO, emais

There's a question, Laurent, on the nursing homes between who pays private and government, how prices are set?

Laurent Guillot
Group CEO, emais

Okay, so it depends really on which country you're talking about. So we have business in 23 countries, but really quite present in six to seven countries. So I think you really need to look at each country individually and sometimes even from one region to the next within each of those countries. Let's just take France for an example. So it is our leading market, but it's also an area where nursing homes only account for about 25% of overall revenue. Around one-third of our revenue is accounted for by public subsidies to pay for our healthcare providers. And two-thirds of our funding actually comes from our residents. So that's private. Now, obviously, we can't entirely increase our rates for existing residents, as we've already explained.

However, for new residents, we have complete free rein over what rates we can provide and also what services we can provide. Now, again, that's unique to France. I think it would be good if we could look into each country one after the other to give you a full understanding.

Laurent Lemaire
Group CFO, emais

[Foreign language] . Aren't you worried that the 5%-10% increase is going to limit the increase in the occupancy rate? What do you think about price competitiveness and price competition in France? [Foreign language] .

Laurent Guillot
Group CEO, emais

It is a possible likelihood that one would impact the other. But we actually made a decision because the scissor effect was quite considerable in 2022. But we have a premium offer that we provide with our retirement homes. Generally speaking, they are at the top end of nursing homes and retirement homes in France.

Now, it shouldn't have an impact on our occupancy rate, but from a financial point of view, it would have a bigger impact. I think it's going to be better if we strongly increase prices there. I think it shouldn't be too much of a problem. Now, that said, in France, there is a major effect, but it's quite a local effect. Obviously, when looking at France, you need to look at everything from a very local point of view. Then you can apply your price-to-volume policy according to that hyperlocal analysis that you're going to do. Again, it all depends on the quality of services you can provide. It depends on how you segment out your services within the retirement homes as well. I think that is going to be the main driver going forward.

I think we need to have a sales strategy or a marketing strategy which is much more fine-tuned than it has been in the past. That way, we can differentiate between our retirement homes and our competitors. I really think that having finer segmentation is going to be a key driver. That, for example, within one single retirement home, you can provide services to residents with a higher purchasing power, provide more high-level services. That's for one retirement home. Then in other retirement homes, again, I don't want to segregate the two from each other. I'm just saying that we need to have some areas of retirement homes where you provide lower level of services, therefore costing less, and you can sell it at a lower price. We started doing that in 2023, predominantly with our clinics, where we've rolled out our entire policy there.

We should be able to roll it out much more large-scale in 2024, certainly in the first quarter of the second half of the year. More differentiation in our commercial strategy, improved occupancy rates. Again, that will have a better price impact for the better financial health of the company.

Laurent Lemaire
Group CFO, emais

Reform. What can you say about the SMR reform in France?

Laurent Guillot
Group CEO, emais

The reform isn't entirely in effect for the time being. It will come through. It will be phased in. I think it is important for us to look at that reform and to adapt the way our facilities are organized according to that and to look at what we do in each of our facilities to see what provides what are we going to focus on, what are the key business drivers, and what can we focus on in terms of providing specialty services.

So I think for some time, we had a revenue guarantee where we had to break even for a number of years. But then after that, we're going to be able to improve on that.

Laurent Lemaire
Group CFO, emais

Margin. What margin can Germany generate because of the impact of pay? Well, we consider that Germany is a country where we can achieve a normal and very acceptable margin level. As we mentioned, there was quite a significant pay hike early in 2023. But in return, as Laurent said, it's a country where we have repricing capacities that are most significant. We're talking high single-digit or low double-digit. Take your pick. But just to give you an idea, that's the first point. So we expect through a gradual German pricing recovery, including this restabilization of prices, at the end of 2023, early 2024, we'll return to a more acceptable situation.

Second point is the sector was quite heavily affected in Germany by companies and facilities going under, going bankrupt. We see that in our occupancy rate numbers continuing to rise. I think that's driving the sector. One of the major players, well-positioned, who will be able to benefit from that. Over a three-year vision, no difference between Germany and the other. We consider it's one of our strong countries where we have solid positioning. We have a major rehab activity in parallel with the nursing home. So it's really one of the solid countries of the group. [Foreign language].

Laurent Guillot
Group CEO, emais

I agree with everything you just said 100%. There are a lot of our competitors that went under last year. Either they went bankrupt or their financials were really suffering. Obviously, we suffered last year compared to the year before. But generally speaking, we are doing quite well.

For us in 2024, Germany is actually a country where we see strong growth opportunities. It's going to be a model with a strong competitive edge, given that the market in Germany is suffering.

Laurent Lemaire
Group CFO, emais

An interesting marketing positioning where the first two evolved towards the high end by selling services. That's, I think, that contributes quite a lot to the P&L. That's for Julien.

Laurent Guillot
Group CEO, emais

So question about real estate divestment. We've got another one. What capitalization are we going to focus on? Well, we didn't really talk about that for 2024. But that said, for 2023, we had quite a mixed bag when it came to capitalization. So it depended on a country. It also depended on the state we were up to. So we went up to about 5.7%, generally speaking.

But obviously, that was for a number of projects that were already underway. So you had to add in other aspects into that 5.7%. So generally speaking, we were still able to get some satisfactory prices compared to market price.

Laurent Lemaire
Group CFO, emais

[Foreign language]. There's a follow-up question on real estate. The competition that we would have with other players, putting assets up for sale, held for sale. Belgium, that's a reference made to Clariane. Do you want to take that one, Laurent? On the competition that we're seeing in asset disposal, number of players who are putting their portfolio up for sale.

Laurent Guillot
Group CEO, emais

Given the competitive market that is out there, well, I'd just like to say we're not really looking at the same markets.

We come up against very few investors, or I don't think I've seen any who have said for the time being, "Yeah, I'll do it," or "Maybe I'll go look at a different transaction with a different operator." I'm hesitating between one or the other. Now, generally speaking, when you're putting up an offer for a transaction, given who we are as a business and how we operate, and given that we are really shoring up our finances and our major shareholders, we work with investors who actually want to work with us and who know from the outset that they want to work with us and that they want to work with us right through the transaction. Now, that said, the real estate market is a market which is facing some hardships right now. But we aren't really having to fend off competition.

Laurent Lemaire
Group CFO, emais

Just as a follow-up to refer to the Belgian example mentioned, we're only selling real estate in the current when you talk about competition in Belgium, it's an Opco, Propco sale. We're not selling our Opco segment. We're not dealing with the same investors on many markets because we're dealing only with the property, not the Opco. And then objective commitments, quality indicators in 2024.

Laurent Guillot
Group CEO, emais

Well. [Foreign language]. So we haven't yet disclosed much information on that. That said, our forecast is to obviously have a drop in accident, an increase in satisfaction. And these key targets are going to be outlined in the different press releases as part of our annual report and also a little later when we'll be talking about our CSR strategy that we'll be presenting to our market.

Laurent Lemaire
Group CFO, emais

[Foreign language . ]. Question on debt maturity you have for this year.

If you refer to the slide on debt maturity, we have EUR 700 million in debt maturing in 2024. [Foreign language] .

Laurent Guillot
Group CEO, emais

Actually, I'll answer the other question that we have on occupation rates in France or occupancy rates. So we're going to see an improvement for occupancy rate in France this year. Now, as said, it really falls in line with the conversations that we had earlier about pricing. Given the cost volume or the price volume ratio, we said that in France, we want to focus on prices predominantly. So we are going to see a general increase of our occupancy rate in France. But that's not our main focus. Our main focus is financial stability. And therefore, we're going to focus on prices. Now, we don't provide any global or overall forecast for that.

We'll give guidance on that a little later when we'll be talking about our half-year results. Now, when trying to understand why the occupancy rate isn't increasing faster than that in France, well, it's because the entire industry is suffering. There's a lot of negative media coverage on the industry right now. And obviously, that is going to have a much longer-term effect than we originally planned. And on top of that, you have inflation. So that means that people can't really manage to fund or finance their stays in our facilities. So that's why we think there's going to be a progressive improvement over time. But we're going to target our sales strategy and really ramp up our sales strategy by focusing on some key targets.

Laurent Lemaire
Group CFO, emais

Question on the asset base that can be really segmented in terms of price.

Laurent Guillot
Group CEO, emais

So I think pretty much all of our facilities in France can be broken down on a price segment basis. So you can do it from one facility to the next. And then within a facility, you may have one room which has a garden view. And you'll be able to select at a better price than the room that has a view over the car park. So that's a segment. So you can segment things by the furnishings, by the size of the room, by the aspect. And this is something that we haven't really been doing so far. But you can also take it up a level. So a facility within a local town. I remember a lot of people don't really want to travel too far to go into one of our facilities. So they are very local.

Now, with the different marketing strategy, we're going to be able to have a greater impact on price and greater occupancy rate. And they go hand in hand. So I think the short answer is all of our facilities can be broken down by segments.

Laurent Lemaire
Group CFO, emais

[Foreign language] . A question that returns to the forecast, 2, 3 years. EBITDA, EBITDAR, IFRS. I'm very sorry, but we won't answer. For the point we mentioned, we genuinely haven't updated our BP. It's not that we don't want to share it. We wouldn't. But for the time being, we have nothing to disclose. Question to reduce development CapEx. We refer to that in the release with the reduction in EBITDA 2024 versus the target. Could you clarify full year 2024, 2025 phasing of real estate expansion? We won't give our specific numbers.

What I can tell you is compared to our initial plan in 2024, on average, we have a decrease, about EUR 70 million decrease EBITDA. With the range of 891 initially, we're working on reducing our development CapEx, not maintenance CapEx, of the same order. It doesn't mean that the projects are jettisoned. It's spreading over time, longer term. But in terms of cash, the idea of to offset the impact. Next, there was a question. Is there a risk that owing to an occupancy rate not rising in France, that the government is going to continue to subsidize your French activities if there are so many empty beds?

Laurent Guillot
Group CEO, emais

No. Well, this is an issue that doesn't affect emeis alone. So obviously, we look at each French region one after the other. And there isn't a real difference in terms of average occupancy rate now.

We are a little below the French average. Again, that is directly related to the 2022 scandal and the book that was published. But that said, we are a little above the trend in France and the greater in Paris and the greater Paris area. But again, I would like to come back to the point that this is not emeis specific. Now, that said, a lot of public-run facilities or not-for-profit facilities, they are built upon the same financing model. And they are actually running at a loss. And they, too, would suffer drastically if the government pulled funding. So I don't think the government will pull funding. And I don't think they even have the regulatory framework to do that, to completely pull funding. Another question. What is the average cost of debt post-restructuring? Now, you've already answered this question, but go again.

Laurent Lemaire
Group CFO, emais

[Foreign language]. On the bulk of the group's debt, Euribor + 2%. And we have a part of the real estate debt is for a third that's slightly below. We're slightly below Euribor + 2%. Next is a question on the target, 800-835 EBITDA, they create efficiencies? Answer: yes. Oh, yeah, just the question still on the screen. On the state subsidies. In France, there's a scheme, a mechanism. The money we receive from the state is adjusted for the occupants. We don't receive kind of a sealed envelope in the nursing homes for the full year. We're already in that mechanism. There's nothing new. There's no threat that the government said, "You're very low." I mean, it's already factored in. And so we return that. And depending on the occupancy rate, that's important. That's adjusted. I think that's it. We've covered it. [Foreign language] .

Laurent Guillot
Group CEO, emais

Well, given that we've run through all of our questions, I would like to thank everyone for joining us, for tuning in, for listening and watching. To sum up, as you have seen strong progress in a number of key areas in reworking and reorganizing the entire group, this is something that we've really wanted to push through, focusing on key values. It was really important to get the company back on sure footing. It was important to focus on top-quality services to our patients and residents, providing top-quality support to our staff. We also have financials which are progressively improving, as you saw. We saw great improvement in the second half compared to the first half. Positive signs for 2024.

Generally speaking, strong financials which mean that we now have investors who are major investors in the company and are really supporting our long-term growth plan, really there to support emeis, given that we are in an industry which has a positive future ahead of it, be it in terms of the clinics, the psychological support, the retirement homes, the nursing homes that we have both within France and outside of France. Once again, thank you all for tuning in for our full-year results.

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