Earnings Call: Q2 2020

Jul 23, 2020

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Exteron's H1 2020 Results Conference Call. Please note that today's call is being recorded. Let me now hand you over to Mr. Peter, VP of IR and Corporate Communications, for Christian for opening remarks and introductions. Thank you, operator. Let me start by welcoming you all to Ekstrom's presentation of our half year and Q2's 2020 results. Today, I'd like to welcome our Executive Board representative of Patrick, Dravat and Doctor. Ben Schulz as well as our VP of Finance and Administration, Charles Russell. As the operator indicated, this call is being recorded by Exxon and is considered copyright material. As such, it cannot be rerecorded or broadcast without permission. Your participation in this call implies your conference is recording. As the previous results conference call, our staff has presented our results presentation slide deck, page 2 of which contains the usual case, however, statements. I would like to point out that this is live throughout the conference call. May also wish to have a look at our ASIR master presentation with additional information on Exelon's market and its technologies. It's also available on our website. This call is not being immediately presented via webcast or any other medium. However, we will place an audio file of the recording or transcript on our website at some point after the call. I would now like to hand you over to Dan Schulman for opening remarks. Dan? Thanks, Guido. CEO, welcome you to our results presentation of the first half of twenty twenty. And I will start, as usual, with an overview of the key developments in the Q2 on Slide 3 before handing over to Charles and Celine. With orders of nearly €70,000,000 we had a continued solid quarter order intake. In Q2, revenues came in at €56,000,000 which was higher than the previous quarter's revenues, but as expected, still not at the level of as last year's quarter. However, this is a result of the corresponding order intake during the relevant period of last year. As a consequence, revenues in the second half of the year are expected to grow significantly compared to the first half in order to achieve our full year guidance. During Q2, upon request of our customers, we experienced a few delays of commissioning of tools caused by the pandemic. For the second half of the year, we see local lockdown measures pending and an overall relaxation of travel bans. Therefore, we expect no significant influence related to COVID-nineteen on our entire fiscal year 2020. However, we will continue to watch the development of this global pandemic very carefully and we remain to be ready to make, to take measures as necessary. In the Q2, our other key financials were largely in line with all plans. With a gross margin of 41%, we are back to the usual level. We finished the quarter with an order backlog of €157,000,000 which is 42% over the same period last year and given us confidence that we can meet our 2020 full year guidance, which we communicated to you in our last call and which Felix will reiterate to you later in more detail. The renewal of our entire Amotiviti product portfolio has been continued, is making good progress and is an advanced stage. We remain confident about our prospects in our addressable market with our new products as we believe that it will open new market opportunities for our equipment and get our business in a season better position in the future. At this point, let me hand you now over to Charles for a more detailed overview on the Q2 twenty twenty numbers. Charles? Thanks, Blunt, and hello to everyone. Starting on Slide 4, our income statement. Total revenue for the quarter at €56,000,000 was higher than the €41,000,000 of the previous quarter, reflecting the phasing of orders for 2019. The abnormal underutilization of production and service, which we reported in Q1 2020, has now been eliminated. The resulting 5% improvement in gross margin is largely attributable to the increased volumes. Operating expenses in the quarter of €20,000,000 were higher than the €16,000,000 in Q1 2020, Difference being between the 2 quarters operating expenses is down to 2 factors. Firstly, selling expenses in Q2 include €500,000 external commissions. And secondly, Q1 OpEx included a one off target and other income of €2,900,000 from the reverse of an impairment charge. €3,300,000 compared with a loss of €1,000,000 in q1. The tax rate is in both the quarter and the half year because the €2,900,000 gain on reversal impairment is not a taxable transaction. Therefore, net profit was also slightly above €3,000,000 in the quarter. Turning to the balance sheet on the next slide. Inventories of €91,000,000 are higher than previous quarters in preparation for the scheduled high level of shipments in the second half of the year. The level of purchase price in inventory fell from €12,000,000 to €9,000,000 in the quarter. On an actual basis, we received €24,000,000 from the Q1 and the same as at the end of q1. Other assets increased slightly in the quarter to €13,000,000 from €5,000,000 at the end of q1. This is mainly because of some routine tax paid ahead and VAT and grants which have not been received at the end of June. June. Excluding deposits remained stable at €61,000,000 in Q2 compared with €50,000,000 at the end of Q1 reflecting our growing backlog. Let's take slide 6 back to those statements. We had a negative free cash flow of €11,000,000 in the quarter, which was mainly due to the increased working capital I just mentioned. Our overall cash balance at the end of the quarter was €289,000,000 And with that, let me now hand you over to Felix. Thank you, Sean, and welcome to you all. I will give you a short overview of development within our portfolio of our approach to handling the pandemic and of our outlook. Let me first speak about our OLED business production issues process with our Korean customer and continue to make good technical progress. We have achieved a number of technical specifications and work towards achieving additional ones. Furthermore, we are now starting discussions with our customer on the next step of our joint OLED project. In our MOTVD business, we are seeing solid interest around our data from laser solutions, driven by the ever growing need fast data communication. Our commitment on the production of LED for fine touch for mini LED displays and mini LED backlighting units continue to see healthy demand. In addition, we have sold a good number of upgrade kits for the production of UVC LEDs. UVC light can be used for disinfection of air, water and surfaces. This does not represent a large portion of our revenues, but will reduce contribution to profit and helps to further strengthen our position as a market. In power electronics, we see strong demand in particular from our existing chemical car light customer and a growing demand for produced produced selling nitride based power devices. These devices are used for example in highly efficient power supplies and in complex fast charging devices for consumer electronics such as mobile phones or laptops. Let me now give you some background information on how we handle the COVID-nineteen challenge. Our production remains to be up and running without interruption for delays. As you know, we have implemented a number of measures early on in the crisis, and our supply chain has proven to be very stable without major shipment delays. This early June, all our employees are back in the office working in an increased distance with each other and wearing masks wherever proximity to others cannot be avoided. Since the return to the office, we did not have any additional cases of COVID-nineteen infection in the company. As a result of the above described market demand and our stable operations, we can again confirm and reiterate our guidance for the year 2020 as illustrated on Slide 7. You may have noted on our guidance slide that we are now showing orders and backlog figures which have to be converted into revenue during 20 20 rather than just looking at the timing of shipments. We've made some changes to the way we put together our guidance slide. We have now based our assumptions of what we previously called shippable order intake and backlog on more exact data, namely on what we believe will be converted into revenue this year. This means that we are not assuming 100% revenue generation from Schipholot as soon as any more, but rather 90%. Generally, this is what we are actually looking on shipment, which makes the figure now more accurate. And that is the reason why we have introduced this change. With this, we continue to expect revenues to be in a range between 2 €60,000,000 €300,000,000 a gross margin of approximately 40% and an EBIT margin between 10% 15% of revenues for the full year 2020. This expectation is based on our solid order book at the end of this quarter and healthy level of customer inquiring, particularly around next generation power electronics, lasers for optical data communications and specialty LED for display applications. Our 4th class and U. S. Dollar denominated orders and revenues for the remainder of this year are, as always, based on an exchange rate of €1.20 per €1.20 per €1. With that, I will pass back to Guido before we take questions. Thank you very much, Felix, Bernd and Karl. Operator, we'll now take questions, please. Thank you very much. The first question comes from Andrew Bartner from Barclays. Over to you. Thank you. Good afternoon, gentlemen. If I could ask 2. Firstly, just a quick one. Ben, you referenced some slight delays in Q2, primarily at your customer request. Can you give us a sense as to what profit that might have been in and whether it was significant in terms of revenue? And are you expecting to get that back in 3rd and 4th quarters? And then also just around the rest of the reframing of guidance and the backlog that you've got to ship later this year. So actually, my question was more into next year. I mean, what kind of longer term term visibility do you have at the moment sort of as you look to start in 2021 and some of the relative strength of the different end markets? Yes. Thank you, Andrew, for the questions. Yes, with the delays, I mentioned in my presentation, it is pretty much that in the Q1, it was mainly in China. We could not travel China or even within China, our Chinese team could not travel and that delayed some few shipments to China and installations, which in the meantime, for example, the shipments have been shipped then in Q2. And in Q2, it was more installation dedicated for U. S. And Europe for same reason. It is not a huge number in terms of revenue because it's mainly a matter we can take about we take 10% of the revenue of the quarter with achieving the final acceptance, which basically we get once we finish the installation and meet the final acceptance requirements. However, the total number is not big, but it is important for us in terms of the profitability. So it is a small one digit a million numbers which we talked here about. About. On the longer term perspective, it's very difficult to say. We're certainly looking into market analysis and this is, of course, not based on bottom up approaches, more on longer term expectations for market development in strategic sectors. And there we are very optimistic in the growth opportunities of the areas I think we mentioned particularly. But the difficulty is always is when does it really come and when does it kick off. So is it next year? Is it maybe some more data? It really depends what end application in the end drives the demand. So it's for us, we can speak more about the long term perspective, which is looking very positive for the short term and also looking positive. And unfortunately, in between, it's quite difficult to say. Understood. Perhaps if I could just a follow-up on that last point quickly. You mentioned greater interest in tools for mini and microLEDs, removable launch kitsch displays. Do you guys feel we're getting closer to an inflection compare? There's obviously a lot of talk about it within the market. I'm just wondering in terms of whether you feel like we're are we still in the prototyping phase or is there signs that you might start to see orders for more production volumes? Andrew, you have to see this a little bit, it's a little bit more complex. First of all, there are now products both our customers for end applications. So it's not like visibility, it's happening now. But you have to differentiate between the colors. In particular for the blue and green color, the market or the customers are using installed equipment, which they have required to, for the generalizing demand. But there's enough capacity for blue and green for this application. However, for red, it's different. For REG you need additional capacity simply because the REG capacity is pretty fully utilized due to, you may remember, you don't need rest for complete catalytic. So there is not such a big install base, which has been acquired during the product tag licensing. And that drives basically our, when we speak about demand for fine pitch, mini LED, it is wet eliquid system, what we talk really about. And we received orders and we're going to ship tools in the second half of this year, in particular for this application. It's ongoing now. Yes, good afternoon gentlemen. And obvious questions from my side, please. Firstly, on the gross margin and really related to LED as well versus last year? And secondly, actually on fast charging. So first on the gross margin, if my math is correct, you actually had roughly 50% from LED in the Q2. And in the past, we have been told that NLE orders are typically carrying a much lower gross margin. Yes, obviously, the gross margin in Q2 was much better than if you want to. But my question is to square this up with what we are seeing and maybe that is related to the comment you already made that really LED is no longer LED, I. E, the automotive goods are actually more higher margin? Or any color on that would be appreciated. And secondly, on fast charging and value nitride, how much of the CapEx for this opportunity do you think have you seen have your customers already been spending in terms of number of mobile phones for 5 gs that can be penetrated? Just some color on that would be appreciated. Thank you. Okay. Uwe, let me start with the first question about gross margin in particular Q2, why is Q2 so good having such a high LED content? That is the reason is very simple that LED content in Q2 was not confined chips or mini LED, we've seen a customer who is ramping up, in China, ramping up its opportunity for microLEDs. And microLED requires really a high performance, high end MOCVD tool, which is fully automated. And with that, the micro LED prices are more like prices we are using power electronics, etcetera, yes? So meaning with India and higher margin. I'm afraid you will may see, you may see in Q3 a slight drop in gross margin because there in Q2 we'll be going to ship quite a few systems for red LED to China for the main, for the mentioned linear LED and frontage. So that's the explanation. And let me come to your question on the fast charging, the MiSight. In my side. So in my side, there's 4 electronics at multiple good tables. Fast charging is now the first good case that we see really going into volume. So we clearly have seen the inflection point, and we see that the market is in full rent. And we see especially and we can expect to see further that right now and further in 2021, many smartphone models will be equipped with fast charging modules, chargers based on gallium nitride power electronics. Interestingly, it was mostly Chinese customers taking the lead of this one. And this is the Chinese smartphone wave maker has been the 1st month in the adoption. We talked here about the Huawei, the Zumo, the Xiaomi, the Oppo and these guys, I think other global brands will follow later. However, I think we should not only reduce gallium nitrate for electronics fast charging. That would be too little. Yes? Fast charging is the first application adopting gallium nitride core electronics in volume, safely from the reason that gallium nitride has a good value proposition here. Also the reliability requirement of this consumer electronic market are relatively low, yes? That's that such a new innovative material and fast adoption. We're ultimately expecting the second wave of carrying nitrate with power electronics to be in highly energy efficient data center. You see here about the power supply, how the data centers of Google, Amazon and the like. And also part of the second wave, we can expect onboard charger for electric vehicles or hybrid vehicles. And later on, we can expect the 3rd wave of having micro based power electronics to be integrated or smart power as some customers are calling that, then exploiting the capability that on one side you can integrate multiple switches. So from that, in a nutshell, you can say we are seeing now the starting point, the inflection point of a multi year growth opportunity. But I would not want to say that it's excellent, we don't support the market size and we've now seen X% of that as your question was deleted. Very helpful indeed. And just one follow-up on each of you. First, Bernd, when you say, especially remember you saying during various conference calls, there is no true micro LED in China. Is that statement now valid to your point you made a minute ago? And then secondly, Felix, you said that the Chinese smartphone makers have actually leapfrog the other charging. But is that true that your customer base is taking more in Taiwan and they would be shipping those to the Chinese smartphone makers? Thank you. About the comment to LED micro OLED in China, I'm afraid this statement still hold up. But there is quite some ambition in China to develop microLED and basically if, even if you have a microLED capable tool and you start producing with this tool first, what we would call a mini LED, but one thing to develop, let's say, having a roadmap to reducing size of chips and going more towards micro LED, I think this is the plan which the customer is going to know. So it's true, there is no true micro LED product out of China yet. And to the second question, where our customer base is located? Our customer base of gallium nitride was split into 2 ways. The first wave of customer installations was in Europe, in the U. S. And in Taiwan, as your question is indicating. And in fact, one of our Taiwan based customers is currently running in very high volume, producing chips, producing gallium nitrate based chips and many of them are being used in China based smartphone models. However, in the last one and a half years, we have also seen very strong demand for gallium nitride based tools, our G5 plus tools from China Mainland itself. At the base, we have clearly shipped 1,000 or 2,000 tools in the last one and a half years to China Mainland, not only one customer, but a number of China based start up mid sized players by now, some of them not to contest that in China mainland, there is a very strong and deep knowledge of compound semiconductors, which has been grown over the last decade based on the blue and which was also based on the gallium nitrous materials. And we are now seeing also local production of local China customers jumping on that bandwagon. So China is becoming a market for gallium nitrate by itself. That's very helpful indeed. Thank you very much. Next up is Michael Schallman from Marvell Research. Yes, good afternoon. The first one is on the other pipeline. How are you confident of the next step you see in your other pipeline for current future projects from 3Q side? Can you then which potentially kind of similar order level in the second half, that order level change. So what is the sense of your answer until you see the order pipeline for the Woden as well as the top term? Yes. Thank you, Mr. Schauer. I mean, so far the inquiry and quotation activities, I mean, sitting here now continue on a similar level like in the first half of the year. So it's, of course, difficult to say what will happen in next quarters, but talking about now we're seeing similar levels. Okay. And I think coming from the system application, so it was pretty strong, especially in the first quarter, as well as shifting towards another application or kind of stable? I think we see a similar mix in the second half as in the first half, judging order inquiry level, which is strong on the power electronics side, both fan and silicon carbide. And secondly, lasers for optical data communications and thirdly, micro and mini LED, which we largely discussed in the last couple of might be interested in taking? We are now about to complete the 2 projects. As we mentioned in our report, we have achieved a couple of steps. We are now working with the customer on achieving additional ones and closing the specification list and then later on closing the project. And with that, we are now starting discussions with our customer on a follow on project, So once again, we'll be again in our D type development project, however scaling up to a larger display type. So in the first one on the Gen 2 project, we've generally improved the feasibility study of the OV2D technology. And the next page, yes, which is then coming in 2021, is about approving that this can also work at large scale substrates. That would be the next step. And we announced starting the discussions that could continue by the end of the year. They can move on early into next year and I think that we can really on the technical discussion. Because now with such a project, it's not only you sit together with a customer like on an existing project, you will close the deal, you negotiate a price, you sign a PO, but it's a lot of technical discussions about the specifications, what you want to achieve, our objectives that exist into the customer line. And only when those technical details are sorted out, we can really make a closure of the project. But those discussions are now starting. Okay. And then last one on the expenses. Over the past kind of quarters, there has been average R and D funding of 2,000,000 per quarter. Is that a number you would also expect going forward or is there kind of a change in one of the direct Anything going into next year or is it early to start? I don't think there's much change expected to fall into next year. Okay. The next question comes from Janardan Menon from Liberum. Just one question for taking the car by side. You said that you orders are still coming from your existing customer. Can you give us an update on how the qualifications of the PR customers are proceeding and when you might expect a decision on that to be made? May? Yes. Thank you for that question. So as mentioned with one existing customer, we clearly see that this customer is in a ramp space and it's taking continually orders every quarter 1, 2, 3, 2. This is very nice and enjoyable. We are positive on concluding the qualification with the other customers. And I think it's just a question of the volume ramp and the production facility expansion at the other customers when an order is going to be placed. It's not a question never an order be placed, but it's a question rather, is it going to be placed in Q4 or is it going to be placed in Q1? And that surely depends on the volume and capacity needs of our customers. So would those new customers be having a sort of a dual platform strategy, you and your competitor, or would they be moving entirely to you? I think the existing base is with our competitor and the existing base is already a number of tools. So I would expect the largest part of the ongoing extension to be with our tools once we can convince the customer of our tools because our objective is very clearly to have a lower cost of ownership. So there should not be a reason to buy a competitor tool again. And this is one company or is it multiple companies? Both of the companies. So you're can we assume therefore that these new facilities start expanding sometime in the next 12 months or so, maybe first half of next year is when you will see an inflection of orders beyond your existing concern? In the first half of twenty twenty one, we should clearly see demand from other customers, yes. Understood. Just on the OLED side, so can I understand from your comments that the customer is now convinced of the technical capabilities of the Gen 2 machine and therefore is keen to proceed on to the bigger machine whether that is Gen 6 or Gen 8? I mean, that question mark is now no longer is not there anymore. Now it's only a matter of finalizing price and the technical qualifications or specifications of the large division. I wish I could look into the head of my customer because then I had a clear advantage in a price negotiation. I cannot answer you that because only my customer knows. Okay. The very fact that he is willing to engage in this discussion should imply that he is interested in moving. Interested, I would definitely say so. That way they wouldn't bother us to talk with us. Sure. Okay. And the last one is, I mean to hit the high end of your sales guidance for the year, you will probably have been shipping in excess of €100,000,000 worth of systems by Q4. Do you have the sort of capability in terms of supply chain deliveries and case, etcetera, to deliver that sort of because you have not delivered that kind of revenue for almost a decade now. Is that possible at this stage? Well, wait a second. We have Q3 and Q4 ahead of us, right? We have 2 quarters to come, yes. So I'm clearly expecting not to 0 in Q3. We're clearly expecting on a serious note an increase in shipment levels in Q3 compared to Q2. And we clearly expect an increase in shipment levels in Q4 over Q3. And given from the fact that we have now confirmed and reiterated our guidance, we are very confident that we will meet the 2 implies, I mean, it's just mathematics, yes, €97,000,000 was in the first half. Yes, so in order to make that, we have to make at least 163 in the second half, and we are very confident to make that number. Otherwise, we wouldn't have the iterated deconfirmed out. Debt. Yes. And of course, I mean, Ziran, you're right. In order if we look in the entire span between our guidance of $260,000,000 to $300,000,000 this would imply $100,000,000 per quarter each quarter. I think it's not so likely that we will get to the upper end of the guidance, I think as Felix indicated. But if we want to achieve, let's say, to the lower or midpoint of the guidance, I think 1 quarter should get into the €100,000,000 range. And yes, this is the plan. Got it. Thank you very much. The next question comes from Charlotte Crich from Berenberg. Hello, thank you. And we've covered actually most of your questions. One follow-up on any additional color that you can share on the 3rd quarter aside from the expense impact of the gross margin because of LED shipments? Yes, I mean I mentioned this, we are going to ship in Q3 quite a number of red LED tools to China for mini and vintage LED. And traditionally, our prices are a bit more, average selling prices are a bit lower than in other applications. So we expect a reduction in gross margin in the 3rd quarter due to the fact that we shipping quite a few wet and beetles. The next question comes from Jurgen Baader from MainFirst. Yes, good afternoon. Thank you for taking my questions. First, a follow-up on your OLED answer. You mentioned that the Gen 2 is now about to conclude all the discussions or the developments, how much revenues will you put in currently? And then you also mentioned that your portfolio will be upgraded completed the upgrade will be completed soon. What could be the impact on gross margin and OpEx leaving OLED aside in 'twenty one? Thank you. Okay. So let me take your first question on the OLED topic. As we mentioned earlier, on OLED we are booking the revenues on a percentage of completion in a percentage of completion mode that is we are continually booking and recognizing the revenue as we are completing the project. That means the implication that at the moment we complete the project, it will not lead to like a jump in revenue or a onetime effect, but we rather as we have been completing the project and actually doing that along the side, there is not going to be a one time effect out of it. So you have been recognizing sales already this year? Yes. Is that right? Yes, we have. And how much was that? We the the revenues from the system was booked in an earlier year. What we've been doing is a joint development income, which is joint expense between us and our customer. So there is no revenue booked so far in 2020 for the Gen 2 system. So there is no revenue to book to the Genesys system, and it's been taking us 5 years when the system was physically shipped to This means that you don't expect any revenue from that in the second half. Is that right? That's correct. Okay. Sorry, can you Mr. Reich, can you repeat your second question? No, you said that you are about to conclude the upgrade on your portfolio. Sorry, I remember, yes, your question on the impact on margins etcetera. So you have to see we are working to basically renew our entire MOCVD equipment portfolio and that is not the thing which happens overnight. So you know that we are, have launched the silicon carbide new equipment in fall last year and we are still talking about getting the 1st weekly order probably early next year. So this is a signal feeling what is the theory from introduction to the market until you're really seeing first sales and with the other products, it's similar. So we are now in the process this year basically to bring the 1st demonstration tool to customers for our next generation gallium nitride tool, which is targeting for power and eventually also microLED, but we will start with power electronics. And similar for the red color for lasers and for microLEDs, Here we will start due to customer demand with microLEDs. But these tools mostly will first tools, they will ship them maybe the beginning of next year. So then you have to go through the qualification side. And until you really see impact of volumes going to your P and L, this takes a while. But don't expect I'm mentioning this more for you guys to understand why our RDD numbers are set up. So we're now spending the money to developing this tool And you see this in our P and L in the increased R and D. And when you see the increased R and D, it's not coming from OLED. Indeed, OLED is reducing. It's really coming from the efforts of developing new MSPD platforms. And that is an investment for staying ahead of, I mean, delivering price increased market demand, increased customer demand in terms of performance, but technically also to paying ahead of competition. That is basically what we're doing here. So don't expect immediate impact this year next year. Okay, understood. Thank you. The next question is coming from David O'Connor from Exane BNP Paribas. 2 on my side, if I may. Firstly, on the OLED side. So the next stage of OLED on the R and D, the proving, as you talked about scaling the largest substrate, What's the timeframe for this next page? That's my first question. And secondly, on the 3 d sensing optical side, Q2 orders €9,000,000 down quarter year over year. What's your overall general expectation for 3 d sensing from your discussion with Optum customers going through the second half and maybe further into next year? Thanks. Just coming to the first question about the time frame. So I think this is going to be a project which will run through the year 2021 roughly and then to be seen what exactly the scope of that project is, finishing towards the end of 'twenty one or early 'twenty two. I think that depends on the mutually agreed response of the customer. On the 3 d sensing, it is particularly still in the situation that there is capacity for, let's say, the ongoing products, which are in the end part of the market, the increasing capacity is enough and it requires really an uptick in additional capacity requirements coming from end applications, meaning more cell phones, more high volume cell phones are using on the base and world size 3 d sensing applications because that's what's driving the short term demand in 3 d sensing. Nevertheless, we are very optimistic about the long term demand in 3 d sensing, looking in industrial, looking in automotive applications, but this is more on the long term. But in the very short term, we're selling 3 d sensing tools here and there. And basically, mostly to customers in China or Taiwan. Basically, the established supplier into the supply chain of iPhones, in a moment, they don't give us indication for, of course, need of capacity. However, from the past, I remember well, it can change overnight. So this is, because it doesn't require any development, nothing. You just place an order and ask them to deliver as fast as possible. Understood. Thanks, sir. And maybe one follow-up on the power side of things. Last quarter, I think you indicated the split in power orders about fifty-fifty between silica carbide and gallium nitride. Could you give us an indication of what it was in Q2? I think it was more on the gallium nitride side, but I don't have the exact numbers with them. Okay. That's helpful. Thank you. Yes. Thank you very much, Brian, Felix and Charles. And thank you for your sustained interest in today's conference in which today's conference call ends. I wish all of you a nice summer. Stay safe and hopefully see you again soon, maybe even in person. Thank you and bye bye.