Welcome to the Bayer session at the 2026 J.P. Morgan Healthcare Conference. I'm Richard Vosser, European Pharma Analyst with J.P. Morgan. It's my great pleasure to introduce from the Bayer healthcare business, the pharma business, Stefan Oelrich. Before I hand over to Stefan to give a presentation, I just remind you that we can take your questions afterwards if you put your hand up, or you can submit them on the portal. Stefan, welcome to the conference.
Yeah, thank you, Richard. And hi everyone, and good morning. Really excited to give you an update on where we stand in our progress with Bayer Pharma. And I'll jump right into it. And those that have followed me last year, you will remember maybe some of this. I'm happy to share that we're making excellent progress along the way. And it's really a new company emerging since then, both on renewing our top line, where we've seen clear near-term growth drivers, and I'll update you in a second. But also, most importantly, innovation remains the lifeblood of any successful pharma company. So how we've been growing the pipeline, I think, is truly impressive. And we're extremely proud about the advances that we're making.
All of that combined with an organizational model that drives efficiencies while at the same time delayering our organization, taking out cost, and is a true catalyst to an improved performance across the board. So let's jump right into some of our catalysts. But before I do so, I would like to take you back to the first nine months of 2025, which is what we've reported up to now. Well, we've, I think, demonstrated impressively with clear proof points that we're advancing this business and that we're clearly coming out of the tunnel. And this time it's not that we're seeing light at the end of the tunnel. It's really we're coming out of it as we speak. So in the first nine months, you've all seen us upgrade our guidance, which was previously -4% to -1% to now some slight growth.
I think very few people would have expected that in the year where we would experience the full hit of loss of exclusivity of Xarelto, that we would still come up with growth. We've had some headwinds on the currency side, but all in all, with all of this, we also confirm still our margin goal, and that despite the fact of losing a really high margin product and still keeping our overall profitability at very good levels. This is all driven by the phenomenal growth that we're experiencing in the first nine months with NUBEQA at EUR 1.7 billion, which is something that very few people expected. KERENDIA, and I'll speak to that in a second, really gaining a lot of steam and is our next blockbuster in the making. EYLEA, a little bit where we guided trying to stabilize the business.
We've seen volume growth in the first nine months, but continued pricing pressure. Xarelto, no surprise, we're inside what we had guided, about EUR 1 billion-EUR 1.5 billion lost this year, and then our base business, which has been remarkably stable, and I think is something that sets us apart from other companies, so let me jump right into the new look and feel of the Bayer portfolio, and before I go into some of our growth drivers, I would be remiss if I didn't mention some of the base business with very strong growth in our radiology business, which is growing in the first nine months, almost double-digit, with a women's healthcare business, believe it or not, that continues to grow, and we've been very, very pleasant or happy about this performance, especially out of the United States, and then I mentioned Xarelto.
This is well inside of where we had expected it to go, so this is exactly what you want to have when your biggest product goes off patent and loses 30%, that you still grow very high qualitative growth with some of the new products. EYLEA, stable for now, but with volume expansion, the 8 mg conversion is going really well, but I've said it in my quarterly updates that we're facing significant pricing pressures, and that is expected to continue throughout the next year as biosimilars enter in more and more countries as we speak, but now let's go to the exciting part and to the real new Bayer and to the new way of doing things in our company, and this really revolves around five major growth catalysts that we've introduced over the past two years or about to introduce as we move along.
Let me start with NUBEQA. NUBEQA is an incredible story. And not only are we poised to become the number one product in prostate cancer in new patients, we're almost there. And this despite the fact that we're having even fully captured all of the potential patients. So we're still in the case of expanding over the next two years with NUBEQA. And you can see with the NBRx picture here how much dynamic growth we're experiencing with this product. So you can expect an unbroken trend in the years to come. So 2026 is going to be a very strong year for NUBEQA yet again. We're seeing now launch in over 90 countries. And it's truly a product that is responding across the board in any country with stronger growth than many had expected.
This is clearly linked to its excellent profile, not only on the efficacy side, but also unparalleled tolerability, which exactly in this type of setting where many of these patients are asymptomatic, even the metastatic for the most part, don't want to be treated with a medicine that gives them a symptomatic setting just because of the medicine. It is extremely gratifying to see the NUBEQA performance. One of the products that many people were doubting about is our nonsteroidal MRA. We have a, I think, clearly class-defining product in KERENDIA.
We started with chronic kidney disease and diabetic patients, but we then quickly pivoted and added an extremely difficult-to-treat patient population with heart failure because mineralocorticoid receptor antagonism was well known to be effective in that patient population, but didn't have the right risk-benefit ratios, which we thought that with a nonsteroidal we could actually sort of like take and make a true difference. This has proven to be the absolute right strategy for us. We're seeing this in our sales. We're seeing it in our MRA. And I was hesitating whether I show you sales or new to brand Rx. Both look extremely encouraging. And NUBEQA and KERENDIA also mark our re-entry into the United States.
You know that we had given up the rights for Xarelto in the United States, and now we really make a comeback there, which is clearly the reason why we're getting over the patent hump so, so well. With KERENDIA, it's just the beginning of the story. I had guided you to a slow uptake because it's a cardiovascular product, but once you get some prescriber breadth and depth, you see these types of products accelerating, and we're well in line with other cardiovascular products here in terms of the uptake, so there is more to come in terms of growth in the coming years, and there's also more to come in data that we're producing this year. Apart from the heart failure, we also added some interesting data in type 1 diabetics. This is an area where for 30 years there has been no evidence generated for these patients.
We're really making a difference, not just from a data production, but also in the different specialties because they appreciate when we also go after these very fragile populations. Clear blockbuster potential, not just for the product, but for each of these indications. You have sort of like two products in one here with kidney and heart. We're the only product to really protect both organs with this mechanism of action. A beautiful example of how to sort of like bolster our late-stage pipeline was the partnership that we signed with BridgeBio two years ago. This is probably the fastest product we ever brought to market because one year after signing the deal, we were already launching. What a launch this has been. Here you can see when a superior profile hits a superior sales and marketing machine.
And we believe that one of the secret sauces that Bayer has to offer is our ability to go out and market cardiovascular products. Acoramidis is a very impressive proof of that. We achieved only three months after launch, listen to that, three months after launch, 50+% new to brand Rx. In my career, this is unheard of. Now, the only sad part about that is this is a category that accumulates slowly new patients, and we have to rely on new patients because there is not a lot of switching going on. But over time, this confirms, I believe, that with this, what we believe best-in-class profile, we have a chance to also achieve market leadership in Europe and exceed EUR 1 billion in sales for this medicine as well. So tremendously high unmet need, good growth in this marketplace.
Will not be in a super fast uptake, but will ultimately get us there to very attractive numbers as well. Talking about attractive, this is a product that I've been talking to you over the last two years. It's another late-stage acquisition we made a few years back where we bought a phase III ready asset in an area that we know very well, which is menopause management. And one of the unmet needs in menopause management was to come up with a non-hormonal approach. And we took this medicine from phase II to approval with a very differentiated profile. There is a high unmet need. This type of product can treat up to 80% of women that experience vasomotor symptoms when they go through menopause and is one whereby we have a very differentiated label. All of our four pivotal trials are well represented in label.
We have a very attractive safety profile for this product, which is an area that doctors take a big focus in on. Plus, add to that 100 years of leadership in women's health, including a strong leading position in the United States, which makes this a very attractive opportunity, again, with blockbuster profile. The only caution I still have is this is a tricky area. I myself have launched hormone replacement therapy in the U.S. in the past. So I don't expect that physicians are going to come in and only want to write this. We've seen other class entries which had difficulties. I think we're taking a different take at this. Early qualitative feedback is very good. Early qualitative and also factual taking in by payers is also positive, but there is a lot of education that needs to be done.
We're working with our physicians, which we've been working along with for so long in this area. I think we have strong arguments. There is a strong unmet need. Women want to have choices, and we're offering those choices like we have been for so long, which brings me to my fifth one, which is the one that I personally probably feel best about because we've taken a lot of flak on what happened with our Factor XI. Now I can proudly say we have the first proven oral Factor XI inhibitor proven to reduce significantly the risk of a secondary stroke. We will present the data in about three weeks' time.
And while I can't give you the detail beyond the top line, I invite you all to join us for our webinar in early February from New Orleans, Louisiana, where we're going to present the data. This is an incredible unmet need. Think about this. Not only do we have 12 million new strokes every year, about 25% experience a secondary stroke within the first year within the first five years of having had a stroke. This is an unbelievable unmet need. Today, the only available therapy is antiplatelet therapy. And with Asundexian, we will redefine; we believe we can redefine this disease. We're currently engaging with health authorities.
We hope to have approval as soon as the end of this year and be well ahead of any competitor in this space, which will allow us to clearly set the scene and once again prove what I call our secret sauce in cardiovascular because we believe that we're a true leader in this space. So stay tuned for more. I will be personally going to New Orleans, which I don't do often, but for this occasion, I'm going to be there to see how the audience reacts to this, and then we'll see how we take it from there. So you can see it's a truly rejuvenated portfolio. It's something that very few people were expecting from a company like Bayer to actually come up with such a strong late-stage pipeline post-Xarelto and EYLEA. And we feel tremendously proud about what we've accomplished over the past few years.
But that's not all, folks. It's not just what we're doing here and now. It's also what we're about to do in the coming years. And as I said in my intro, a pharma company is only as good as its innovation engine can be. We'll have on stage in a second Christian Rommel, our Head of R&D, and what he has accomplished over the past years, I think, an incredible turnaround in productivity. We've done, I think, some smart deals, adding some platform plays that have put a lot of positive pressure on our internal innovation, which has also improved significantly. We've put tremendous focus in cardiovascular, in oncology, and now in cell and gene with a focus on neurodegenerative diseases and cardiovascular there. And we're seeing results from this. And if you ask me, so what are you most like in this pipeline?
First of all, I like that there is movement in the pipeline, so we're seeing, if you look at the amount of money that we're putting behind our innovation play, I think we don't have to hide ourselves now with the type of output that we're generating. We're having a very competitive phase I, and it's starting to move, so with every year that I've been presenting, we're seeing more movement towards phase II, phase III, and the ones that I feel most excited about is this year we expect proof of concept for our PSMA actinium play in radiopharmaceuticals and prostate cancer. We're also expecting phase II proof of concept readout from a large cardiovascular trial where we're going after patients with very, very severe heart failure that are on waitlist to be heart transplanted, and we offer an alternative with gene therapy that may be life-altering.
So those are just two of the ones that we expect for this year. And of course, all of this with a clear goal of bringing new medicines that further de-risk our pipeline in the years to come so that we better anticipate this time around the next patent cliff because on the next patent cliff, it will probably not be possible to redo the same as we did this time because we can't re-enter the U.S. twice because we are already building a good position there. So with that, I hope you're with me in seeing that not only on what is happening in late stage, but also in early stage, there is tremendous movement. Is there enough movement? We probably can do more, and we expect to do more as we also improve our own financial health inside of Bayer.
We have clearly prioritized delevering on the debt side, but as we improve also on the performance side and generate better cash flows, we expect to also have more availability for deal-making as we move forward. So in closing, before we go to Q&A, I think you can see that not only have we rejuvenated our portfolio, we have also demonstrated superior launch excellence. The amount of hits that we're having is certainly, I think, commendable and is a driver for near-term growth. And we expect to have mid-single-digit growth in the years going into the 30s, essentially starting as of 2027. So 2026 is sort of like the last flattish year because we still will have the full impact of Xarelto until it hits its sort of like bottom.
Secondly, the increase in R&D productivity that further revitalizes our pipeline is notable with the focus and also an efficient innovative engine, which is clearly our foundation for future growth. Then last but not least, and that's what I feel maybe strongest about, is our people. They're really making a difference. You'll see two of them with me on stage in a second, but we have created probably the most agile and most efficient organization that I've ever been part of. We call it our operating system that we feel strongly about. But it's not just how we do things. It's also it results in better cost consciousness, in smarter spending, and ultimately an improved financial health and financial performance.
For us, this means that despite all the woes that we're facing on gross margin losing a product like Xarelto, we're stabilizing our overall margin, and we expect to expand margin again in the 30-ish territory by 2030. That's an easy one to remember, 30 and 30, so that's also ongoing, so if you ask me why do I believe in this new company and in this real turnaround and comeback story as we move forward, it's because we have a portfolio in terms of growth catalyst like we've never had before. We have a pipeline from a quality perspective that is, at least for our standards, a clear improvement over what we've had in the past, yet we want to do better, and we have a great team that is actually capable of implementing this and that is proving this time and again.
I've been asked for so many years, "Okay, show me, show me, show me." I think Bayer no longer is a show-me case. Bayer is a case that has shown that it can actually overcome a very difficult situation, and we're extremely proud about that. With that, I'm going to hand over to you, Richard, and invite Olivier, our CFO, and Christian, our Head of R&D, to the podium.
Thanks, Stefan.
Thank you.
Oh, there's another chair.
Oh, hang on. Let me get out of the way.
Moving away from us, Richard?
Yeah, let's see. If there are any questions in the room, we can take those questions. Maybe I'll start. You highlighted the mid-single-digit growth ambition out to 2027 towards the end of the decade. Maybe you could just give us a little bit of color on the pushes and pulls and the shape of that return given Xarelto erosion, EYLEA, and some of the great drivers.
I can start if you want, Richard. So yes, we are experiencing kind of the end of the loss of exclusivity on Xarelto for the coming, I would say, two years. So 2026 is a once-daily patent loss that we will experience in Europe. So this will be still an impact next year, but after that, this will start to slow down and to probably hit kind of a 900 million EUR-1 billion EUR kind of floor for Xarelto in the coming two years. EYLEA will be a much, I would say, softer kind of loss of exclusivity. It's a different medication. And once we step out of this kind of dynamics, we will have KERENDIA, which is growing, as you've seen, 80%-90% this year. We will be growing also on NUBEQA. This is like still 60%-70% this year.
We will have Lynkuet launch, which has been launched in December. We will have Asundexian in about nine to 10 months. We have BEYONTTRA, which is also a blockbuster component. So in 2027, you will really see a new dynamic with mid-single-digit growth. And you can expect that for 2027, 2028, even beyond 2030 for the years to come thanks to these five, six blockbuster potentials.
It makes sense. Stefan, you touched on pricing pressure from EYLEA. Maybe you could talk about the volume in some of the countries where biosimilars have launched. Maybe the dynamics of volume, price, how you're able to sort of can you hold price on high-dose EYLEA as well? Just the dynamic stuff.
So there is no easy answer to this question because there is a very diverse picture. And this happens when you have a portfolio that doesn't include the US, as all of a sudden, small countries become big countries. And so that's a little bit what we're facing. So far, we have very negative pricing actions in countries like Canada, for example. But yet, we're doing extremely well in countries like France. In France, 8 mg is by far by now the market leader. And so volume-wise, we're doing fine. Pricing-wise, it's really a mixed bag, and it's hard to predict where this is going to land. So we need to look into what's going to happen. I would say the first two quarters of 2026 are going to give us probably an answer. But I'm cautious to give you more for the time being.
Makes sense. You touched on liquidity, and some still conservative caution given the market backdrop and what we've seen with the competitors. But maybe you could give us a little bit more color on the first feedback from the launches, what you're seeing, how the physicians are interacting.
So physicians are seeing this as a clearly differentiated product. And we're seeing in the early uptake, we're seeing prescribers that have not prescribed other non-hormonal or the other non-hormonal. So it's not limited. We're not a replacement to what was there, which I think is encouraging because I do think that the prescriber base is way too narrow in that new class so far. Secondly, we've seen surprisingly positive not surprisingly, but we've seen positive uptake on covered lives. So we're having good access. And this is seen as a positive addition. So again, to be seen. And I think in menopause management, anything's possible. And a common mistake that is done to think is this is so big, an opportunity that's easy to win. So we need to be very clear on getting to the right segments that are really needed for this.
And it's not just women that are ineligible for hormones. It's women who just don't want to have hormone therapy. And very often, there is a difficulty in making that clear to physicians, which have, let's say, they're more prone to prescribe hormones because they've been doing that for so, so many years that they need to understand that sometimes the need of the woman is not necessarily what the doctor wants in this type of medication. So we're doing a lot of educating right now. I've spent so many years on this topic. That's why I'm cautious. And if you think about this, so the majority in this country of women that get hormone replacement therapy still get Premarin or Prempro. These are therapies that were invented in the 1950s, made out of horse urine.
And I think we have something better to offer, so at least to give some choices there. And women deserve to have those choices.
It makes sense. BEYONTTRA, you mentioned we can see the prescription trends on NUBEQA and KERENDIA. They're super. We can't see as well on how BEYONTTRA is going. And there are competitors launching in the market's very dynamic in the US, at least, with Amvutra. So maybe you could give what you're seeing at the moment and how you see the future developing because there's competition.
Yeah, I think we need to be very careful to deduce that Europe is going to behave in the same way as the U.S. is doing in this category. So to have a modality like siRNA through injection and compare it to an oral, the economics are very different in Europe than what they are in Europe. I think our evidence is extremely strong. We're faster in the onset of action. We essentially stabilize the TTRs in their entirety. And that's exactly what you need as a patient. So all the feedback that we're getting from the market is that it may play out a little different in Europe. Also, there is a pricing difference, and Europe is more price-sensitive than maybe the U.S. may be on these types of therapies. So we're very optimistic about this. First, we want to win the battle in our category of stabilizers.
But we're not worried about the new entries there. So when we talk about the NBRx, this is a German number. We are now available, I think commercially available in eight countries in Europe. We're seeing unprecedented speed in reimbursing this because the unmet need is extremely high. In Denmark, we won the national tender, so that we essentially get 100% of new prescriptions. But Denmark is not, I mean, is more famous for other things these days. And so we're good. But let's also be clear, we're not going to get a big amount of switches. Patients that are on drug and stable on drug are typically not going to be switched over. And competition is doing their part to also make an argument why they should be on their product. So I respect that. So it'll be slow, but it'll be constant.
And if you look at the size of the market in Europe today, we're nearing a market opportunity of EUR 2 billion or so. So if we have over 50% NBRx now, I mean, you don't have to be a genius to calculate where this may be ending. So it's a good opportunity for us. And let's not forget, it's a regional deal. And I'm not a big fan of regional deals normally, but this one looked just too good to pass on it.
You touched on that we're going to see the Asundexian data on February 5th. We've seen in the past when you put agents on top of antiplatelet therapy and dual antiplatelet therapy that that's quite hard to manage in terms of bleeding and the risk-benefits. So obviously, we will see the data. But how should we think about all of those balances together and the wider benefits beyond stroke?
Do you want to take that?
There were three clear objectives for the phase III.
Does it work? Can you hear me?
Yeah. So there were three clear objectives. One is to establish the safety on the combination protocol and, of course, not to increase bleeding risk. And the data we've seen so far met the endpoint. We'll share more. And then we wanted to have a clear representation of the stroke patient population. This one dimension, the other one was also in the severity of stroke because there is a 72-hour treatment option. So you will see data on safety, which is encouraging. There's over 12,000 patient population. We have accumulated safety data also in the other trials. So we're talking about near 30,000 patient experience. And then you will see the efficacy data in, I think, what we believe is a very representative stroke population and severity again. Yeah.
I think you got a little bit from Stefan that is a reason why he wants to be in New Orleans when we share the data. There's a lot of potential in Asundexian suddenly.
When we're thinking about the commercial reality and the uptake, obviously, that depends on how strong the data is. How are you thinking about building the market? We've talked about KERENDIA and cardiovascular launches being slow. How should we think about that?
Yeah, if only I knew. But I think this has the potential to go faster because this is an area where there is just no alternative. And the unmet need is just too high. So it reminds me of when statins first came as a method of secondary prevention. So this could be big in terms of also uptake. So I would foresee this could see faster uptake.
When we think of commercial support, you obviously have the KERENDIA sales force in the U.S., et cetera. Presumably, I mean, your margins have been pretty good. The Xarelto sales force might have disappeared a little bit around the world. How do we think about that and the build that you need in terms of infrastructure?
Yeah, we have a somewhat heterogeneous picture because we don't have a Xarelto sales force in the U.S. So there we're using, obviously, our KERENDIA infrastructure and leveraging that, plus going to add some to drive home the launch effort. But for the rest, it's quite synergistic. And when I talk about our system, we've also created tremendous flexibility in our field organization. So we're less structured in terms of business units or product units. And we're more flexible in how we resource our field needs. So I feel good about this. And we really, I mean, you choose any cardiovascular launch of this organization in the last, I don't know, half century, it's been always good. So I'm not fearful, and especially not when the data is so good.
In competition, we've got Milvexian coming. Obviously, don't know the data at all. How do you think about Milvexian?
I don't.
That was clear. Maybe thinking about the pipeline more generally, you highlighted some of the progressions in terms of building the pipeline. We know about the Parkinson's disease assets in phase III. What assets would you point us to look at in the pipeline?
I think I mentioned it. One of the things that I feel most excited about is what we're doing in prostate cancer. With NUBEQA, we have arguably, and I've said it, I think, maybe on this podium or somewhere, two years ago, I said we may have the largest product ever in the history of our company. I think we have now the largest product potentially in the history of our company. This is going to be big, and so we're building on, we're latching on to this strong position in NUBEQA with the PSMA actinium. We'll have proof of concept readout with our phase I data. So that allows us potentially to jump ahead. That's something that we're eagerly awaiting to decide. You can see it by his facial expression that that's something. And yeah, I don't know.
Why do you feel excited, Christian, about our cell and gene and other things that are coming out of the pipeline?
Yeah, these are those kind of approaches and modalities, obviously complex. But at the same time, we see the opportunity to make a real difference to patients. There haven't been any real innovation in Parkinson's disease. And we have chosen to explore cell and gene. So if it's going to work, and we will get the evidence in the next two, three years in a proper placebo-controlled outcome trial, then we can make a real difference. And I think it's a fine hypothesis to when you lose cells to put cells back in again and resume functions and/or with a gene therapy approach to protect cells for going down this path. But we have to generate the evidence. And yeah, but what we've seen so far encourages us to invest in ultimately prove the evidence forward.
Makes sense. You touched on the PSMA actinium. Maybe thoughts on how easy that's going to be to supply. That's one of the things that is most difficult. Obviously, you have some Vigo and some experience here. But also maybe what does, I think, actinium and alpha emitter? What does that bring versus some of the products that are already on the market and established?
Yeah, so when you compare a beta emitter and alpha emitter, one has a lower energy in the longer range, and one has a very high-end and short range. And that does bring some advantages. So if you were you and I in a setting where we deal with a beta emitter, we would build strong concrete protection between the two of us. When you talk about an alpha emitter, the sheet of paper would be enough. So in terms of benefits from that, but much more important is that we think we bring one much more effect size of a radiopharmaceutical nuclide to the tumor. So we envisioned, we generated the data, and we will show the first set of data very soon to have an optimal risk-benefit profile therapeutic window with the actinium approach. To the supply, yeah, absolutely it is challenging. There has become more demand.
But at the same time, if there's a lot of demand, usually supply will solve itself. We made a lot of efforts to secure multiple suppliers. But I would be remiss not mentioning that this is a challenging area. We have to stay on top of it. In particular, when things work, there will be interest. And you make a commitment to patients, you have to have this material available.
Makes sense. Stefan, you talked about adding to the pipeline as well through targeted business development. And we know some of, you mentioned the deleveraging and some of the capital constraints. You did some when you first started some big deals in terms of in gene therapy, Vividion, et cetera, but not so much, at least visible to us. How should we think about this going forward over the coming years?
I mean, when we did the bigger deals were the three platform deals plus the acquisition of LiQuid ultimately. And the three platforms have to be seen really as a key building block to recreating a new R&D. Vividion gave us capabilities on chemoproteomics that this gentleman to my left, he came to me and said, "We absolutely have to have this because that's going to be a game changer to our ability to innovate in small molecules." Cell and gene, two different platforms, were a catalyst to really propelling us to potentially the next round of innovation that's going to come our way. I know that many people see this as a very risky bet. It is a very risky bet. But that's how innovation works. And I think we're well balanced on this. So we don't just want to multiply more platforms.
And so that platform play, and I'm not excluding that we will add some when a new interesting technology becomes available that we feel should be another platform of ours. But the rest, and we've been very consistent on this, is we're trying to do early deals. So preclinical candidates that are ready to go into phase I or early phase I assets. And we've done a few of those last year. Last year, we signed 20 deals. No one sees that, but we see that. And so we're adding. But to tell you the truth, I would like to add more. And yes, we need to make trade-offs. When you have to deliver as a company, then that is our priority. We've decided that to be our priority.
But as we move forward and as we get into better credit rating, we also expect to deploy more of our cash flows again to deal-making. But then again, ideally doing early. And when I look at some of the amounts that are rumored to be spent by some of our competitors, I mean, sometimes I'm a little jealous, yes. But I don't know if that's going to be so much value creating than what I think we can do. And this team here has been really, really good and diligent in how we deploy capital. We've had very, very few write-downs of some of the deals that we've made. So most of this is going forward. And our hit rate is quite good.
Perfect. I think we're out of time. Thanks, Stefan. Thanks, everyone.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thanks, Christian.