Conference is now being recorded. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Deutsche Borse AG Analyst and Investor Conference Call regarding the Q2 2019 Results. At this time, all participants have been placed on a listen only mode. The floor will be open for questions following the presentation. Let me now hand the floor over to Mr.
Jan Strecker.
Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for joining us today to go through our Q2 2019 results. With me are Theodor Weimar, CEO and Gregor Pottmeyer, CFO. Theodor and Gregor will take you through the presentation today. And after the presentation, we will be happy to take your questions. The presentation materials for this call have been sent out via e mail and can also be downloaded from the IR section of our website.
As usual, this conference call will be recorded and is available for replay. Let me now hand over to you, Theodor.
Thank you, Jan. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. Let me start with a short summary, as always, about the highlights of the reporting period Q2. Afterwards, Gregor then will present the results in greater detail. The favorable development of Deutsche Borse in line with our strategic plan also continued in the Q2.
We achieved a 6% increase of net revenue, which was primarily driven by our secular growth initiatives. Of particular note, we increased net revenues from Eurex OTC clearing business as well as product innovation in the Eurex segment. In addition, our commodities business, AAX, continued to develop extremely well. Market shares both in Europe and in the United States are meanwhile
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On record levels. Meanwhile, the cyclical development remained moderate across the group. While the higher U. S. Interest rate level has supported a net interest income from banking business at LeerStream, we saw some headwinds from lower market volatility compared to a strong development in 2018.
Adjusted operating costs increased on a non GAAP basis by 4%. This is fully in line with our expectation and reflects on the one hand organic growth investments, new technology trends such as blockchain and the public
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Deutsche Borse AG Analyst and Investor Conference Call regarding Q3 2019 Results. At this time, all participants have been placed on a listen only mode and the floor will be open for questions following the presentation.
To go through our Q3 2019 results. With me are Theodor Weimar, Chief Executive Officer and Gregor Pottmeyer, Chief Financial Officer. Theodor and Gregor will take you through the presentation today. And after the presentation, we will be happy to take your As usual, this conference call will be recorded and is available for replay. Let me now hand over to you, Theodor.
Thank you, Jan. Also from my side, I can turn the call over to you, Theodor. Thank you, Jan. Also from my side, I can turn the call over to you, Theodor. Thank you, Jan.
Also from my side, I can turn the call over to you, Afterwards, as always, Gregor will present the results in full detail. In addition to the continued secular growth in line with our strategic plan, we saw additional support in the 3rd quarter from an improvement of the current equity market volatility. Our Financial Derivatives business, Eurex, and our Commodities platform, EAX, continue to be the main drivers of our secular growth. Eurex saw further growth from product innovation, higher OTC clearing revenues and positive pricing effects. At AEX, we benefited from yet again further increases of market share levels, both in Europe and the U.
S. The cyclical tailwind in the Q3 was a combination of increased net interest income and temporarily higher equity market volatility in the month of August September. Because of double digit net revenue growth in the Q3, the growth of the adjusted operating cost increased somewhat compared to the 1st and second quarter. This is fully in line, I repeat, this is fully in line with our expectation and was driven by a number of factors Gregor will outline in a moment. Because of this development, we saw a strong increase of our adjusted net profit in Q3 by 18%.
As planned, we closed the Axiom acquisition mid September and have created Contigo as the new umbrella for our index and analytics businesses. Contigo equips our clients to address trends reshaping the industry the investment industry, including the rise of passive investing and smart data, new technology infrastructure for scale and the shift towards customization around 10% adjusted net profit growth for the full year 2019. This strong set of quarterly results confirms again that we are well on track with regards to our organic growth ambitions. But beyond organic growth, we continue to actively pursue M and A opportunities, only the combination of organic and inorganic growth fully unlocks the growth potential of this great company. Our M and A strategy is unchanged.
We are aiming to increase the scale of selected, still smaller asset classes in our group. With the Axioma transaction, we have strengthened our pre trading offering significantly and improved access to the buy side for the entire Deutsche Borse Group. Contigo now serves as the platform to also further grow inorganically in the analytics business. In the trading and clearing area, we are generally offering well established platforms, but size and scale of less mature businesses like commodities and FX can still be further improved. In Investment Fund Services, we are considering all product services and geographies that add value to our already leading fund offering.
With this, we are confident that we can create additional value through inorganic growth. Let me now hand over to Gregor to present the details of our Q3 results.
Yes. Thank you, Theda, and welcome, ladies and gentlemen. Let me start with the group financials on Page 2. In the Q3, Deutsche Borse saw a significant improvement of net revenue and earnings growth rate compared to the 1st and second quarter 2019. Total net revenue increased by 13%, which was a As we mentioned during the last two quarterly calls, the implementation of IFRS 16 resulted in some shifts from operating expenses to depreciation.
We adjusted last year's numbers in the presentation to ensure a like for like comparability. Operating costs amounted to €274,000,000 that were adjusted for around €46,000,000 mainly relating to the closing of the Axiomark acquisition. Operating cost growth was mainly driven by higher investments, higher costs for share based compensation and consolidation effects. Furthermore, the operating cost base in the Q3 2018 was comparatively low. Some of the operating cost growth was offset by the efficiencies from the structural performance improvement program.
Due to the scalability of our business model, the adjusted net profit showed a disproportionate increase by 18% and reached €283,000,000 Let us now turn to the quarterly results of the segments, beginning with Eurex on Page 3. The development of Eurex in the Q3 was driven by around 7% secular growth in net revenue from OTC clearing, new products and pricing. In addition, cyclical net revenue increased by around 12%, mainly driven by the spikes of volatility of some of the trading days in August September. Consequently, net revenue increased 19% and the adjusted EBITDA 25%. Our commodities business, EX, continued to perform very well in the 3rd quarter.
Net revenue increased by 14% and adjusted EBITDA by 32%. Net revenue growth continues to be mainly driven by power derivatives in Europe and the U. S. In both regions, we expanded our market share further. In Europe, we now see levels consistently above 40% compared to OCC in the main market Germany.
Levels in the smaller markets like France, Italy and Spain are even higher. In the U. S, we continue to increase our market share, whereas the other exchanges, to record level of 44% in September. To continue this success, Nodal has expanded its gas offering in the 3rd quarter. About 35% of the power generated in the United States is from natural gas, and it does have a significant impact on the price of power.
When using Nodal for both products, participants benefit from significant capital efficiency through gross margin. Let me now turn to Page 5 and the FX business. 360T's net revenue saw an increase by 17% to €24,000,000 This is now for the first time since the consolidation of the GTX ECN last year, a like for like number. While the cyclical environment in the FX market continues to be difficult, as you can see from the development of some of our peers. 360T attracted further clients, in particular in the U.
S. As a result, September was the best month ever for 360T. Adjusted EBITDA increased 30% and amounted to €12,000,000 While equity trading volumes on the cash market declined slightly in the Q3, SITRA further strengthened its position as a reference market for trading German blue chips and increased its market share to 72%. Also, on a positive note, trading volumes in exchange traded funds increased 15% year on year. As a result, SITRA net revenue stood at 55 €1,000,000 and adjusted EBITDA at €31,000,000 Our post rate reductions in the U.
S, slightly high year over year rates and increased cash balances were contributing to this development. Furthermore, we saw solid growth in core settlement and custody activities, which more than offset the declining net revenue from managed services as part of 3rd party services. In total, net revenue in the Clearstream segment was up by 8% and reached €189,000,000 Adjusted EBITDA stood at €119,000,000 The Investment Fund Services segment, which you'll find on Page 8, showed a strong increase of net revenue by 29% to €48,000,000 Approximately half of the growth is attributable to the consolidation of Swisscanto Fund Centre in the Q4 last year and the acquisition of Osmark, which we completed at the end of July. The organic growth of the funds business was fueled by the onboarding of new clients and high level of activity among existing clients in more volatile markets. The adjusted EBITDA grew by 35% and reached €24,000,000 In GSF, average outstandings in the collateral management business increased by 7%, mainly driven by new client wins and growing volumes in initial margin segregation products.
In contrast, market conditions in the securities lending business continued to be challenging because of negative interest rates and the ECB's monetary policy, putting added pressure on fees. However, volumes in securities lending recovered somewhat in the 3rd quarter when compared to the first half of the year, supported by new client acquisitions. Overall, the GSF segment's net revenue declined by 10%. Therefore, adjusted EBITDA declined to €10,000,000 Slide 10 shows the new Contigo segment, which consists of the newly acquired analytics business, Axioma, and the index businesses of Deutsche Borse. As part of the creation of the new segment, we also transferred around €3,000,000 index related net revenue from the data segment to the Contibio segment.
Historic figures are adjusted accordingly. The €6,000,000 net revenue we are showing for the analytics business refers to the period since closing of the transaction on September 13. However, due to the revenue recognition under IFRS 15, this number cannot be analyzed. For the full year 2019, we expect Axioma on a standalone basis to generate around €65,000,000 to €70,000,000 of IFRS net revenue. Year over year, the adjusted EBITDA of the Contigo segment stood at €29,000,000 an increase of 15%.
Please do keep in mind that around 22% of the net profit will be distributed to the minority shareholders of Contigo going forward. Net revenue in the data segment was down by 8% on the previous year's figure. The decrease was mainly due to lower audit related net revenue as they were unusually high in the Q3 of 2018. As a result, the adjusted EBITDA stood at $28,000,000 On page 12, I would like to put the Q3 results into the context of the 1st 9 months of 2019. The much stronger net revenue growth rate in the Q3 has helped to achieve net revenue growth of 7% during the 1st 9 months of the year, which was mainly driven by secular factors.
At the same time, the adjusted operating cost increased by 6% and reached €782,000,000 In total, the adjusted net profit increased by 12% to €863,000,000 Considering this development, we are confirming our guidance for the full year of around 10% adjusted net profit growth. On Slide 13, we provide you with an overview of the 3 components of net revenue growth for the 1st 9 months of 2019. Compared to the previous year, secular growth being the key component of our strategy to increase net revenue has developed very well. The increase of 5%, respectively €105,000,000 was mainly driven by Eurex and EEX, but Contigo, IFS and 360T contributed as well. On the cyclical side, the increased net interest income due to higher U.
S. Interest rates was net revenue growth by altogether €24,000,000 but the discontinuation of the managed services at Clearstream had a negative effect on net revenue, which amounted to roughly €7,000,000 Adjusted operating costs shown on Page 14 increased in the 1st 9 months of 2019 by around 6% and reached €782,000,000 This includes inflationary pressure in staff and other operating expenses, which was largely offset by lower provisions for variable compensation. Saving from the structural performance improvement program made an important contribution to fund investments in growth initiatives, new technologies and regulations. Net investments grew by €16,000,000 Furthermore, consolidation effect from M and A activities resulted in an increase of operating costs, which was offset by the discontinuation of managed services at GSD. This concludes our
The first question for today comes from Kairos Voigt calling from KBW. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you for taking my question. If I could, just one on M and A, I guess. Now that FXR is off the table, could you just give us an update on the M and A environment? And specifically, I'm wondering if you could help us understand where you're seeing the most opportunities for further consolidation in those five key areas of focus for M and A?
Because it doesn't seem like there's many sizable assets left in FX or index or fixed income. So should investors be more thinking about commodities and IFS as a focus near term? And are there still plenty of opportunities left there? Thank you.
I'll take this one, Kyle. It's Jodo speaking. On the M and A side, we constantly screen opportunities alongside our value chain. And trust me, we are not getting tired of it. We understand the mechanics of scalability.
The growth is important and growth is stemming on the organic side and also and we need an add on on the inorganic side, on the M and A side. And we stick to the areas we have communicated, which is data, FX, IFS, commodities and fixed income. You were asking whether there are certain areas which are which have maybe a little bit higher priority. Indeed, data has high priority. FX continues to be 1, but the available targets are limited.
As you correctly said, on the post trade side, we are looking into it and also on the commodity side. So this is to your question, we will not fall into the trap to feel pressed to do any kind of transactions at all prices. You all have seen what happened with Hong Kong LSE and this kind of stuff. So we want to get it done. We are fully aware that the multiples in the market are very high in some areas.
They are extremely high, and we are very conscious not to overpay and create structures and situations where we can get it done and where we pay a reasonable price, we will stick to what I call financial discipline.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question comes from Johannes Thormann calling from HSBC.
Good afternoon Johannes Thormann, HSBC. Two questions if I may. First of all, thanks for the update on Contigo. Could you give us also a feeling for the costs associated with this business and the impact on minorities? And technically, Peter Heitz of EX gave an interview saying you enter the Japanese power market next year.
Can you talk a bit about that? How far we are? Is this still the situation and so on? Thank you.
Yes. So Johannes, thanks for the question. Yes, with regard to Contigo, in my speech, you have heard that we guide for some €65,000,000 to €70,000,000 net revenues after IFRS. So that is the net revenue number we guide for the full year. And the cost base is roughly €5,000,000 below in the range of €60,000,000 to €65,000,000 And with regard to the to the minorities, yes, as you are aware that we own now 70 8% of Contigo 19 with GA and 3% with the management basically.
So we own 78% and that's a number in the range of 20% and the minority level is in the range of €20,000,000 With regard to the enter in
the Japanese market, yes, Jan, go ahead. Yes. I think this confirms how important the European Energy Exchange is on a global scale. So it's the largest global power market. And therefore, we have the ability here to enter into new markets, although this is going to be a small contribution in the beginning.
So financially, I don't really think you have to start modeling it already, but it really EEX position on a global scale. If it's about power trading, power derivatives trading, then we are usually approached to also assist other markets.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question comes from Chris Turner, who's calling from Berenberg. Over to you.
Yes. Thank you and good afternoon. It's Chris Turner from Berenberg. One question and maybe one clarification, if I can. Firstly, the question, last week, a number of asset managers published a white paper looking at clearinghouses and suggesting they should hold more capital.
I was wondering what your views on those proposals were. And more generally, do you think clearinghouses need to hold more capital? And then just a follow-up, your question on M and A earlier. Can you maybe share some thoughts about how the combined LSE Refinitiv business may change the competitive landscape for Deutsche Bahls in Europe? Thank you.
I can start with the white paper for the clearinghouses. I think that the constant discussion in the market around the role of a CCP and the clearinghouse, so our view here is very clear. So the clearinghouse does not go for its own risk, right? It's mitigating risk. And therefore, we don't see that there should be a higher capital level what is currently available.
And so that's a dialogue again. And but we have a very clear view that a CCP is an instrument to mitigate risk in the market and does not basically keep all the risk here. With regard to M and A, you can do it.
Yes. Chris, Thierry speaking. On the M and A, you asked the question whether LHC and Refinitiv together may change or will change the European and maybe even global landscape. On the M and A side, my clear answer is it changes the chessboard for all the players, right, because LSE is now basically with Refinitiv for the next couple of years. That is, for me, pretty clear, right?
CV is busy with Nex. As you know, right, everybody is looking what's going to happen with the Brexit as such. That comes on top of it. I do not see a fundamental change or that all the or other major exchanges coming into play. I do not see this actually.
It's still the case that major and large stock exchanges are being perceived as a national domestic D and A. And therefore, it will also it will always be a kind of an exception. This does not mean that 1 or the other cash market exchange may trade, right, or may came up to play. But I think our approach that the competition on M and A side will continue and to continue to be very fierce on the asset side, right, the asset classes side, this will continue. So quite frankly, it's pretty clear we have not achieved to get FX all FX matching done, right?
But there are other tiers out, right, which we can go after, right? So that is our situation. But I don't see a massive fundamental change. What happened with Hong Kong LSE, you have seen the start of the initiative and it pulled back quite early on.
That's fascinating. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question comes from Bruce Hamilton calling from Morgan Stanley. Over to you.
Hi, yes. Thanks and good afternoon. Maybe a quick one on Clearstream. I just looking at Q3, obviously, you've grown EBITDA a fair bit less than revenue, so negative operating leverage. Is that something that we should why is that happening?
And should we expect that going forward firstly? And then clearly Clearstream offers good stability and cash flow generation to the group, but equally constrains you on strategic optionality. So particularly in light of the LSC Refinitiv moves, have you in any way sort of rethought how core Clearstream is to future of the business in the shape of Deutsche Post Group? Thank you.
Yes. So starting with the first question of the development Clearstream in Q3. So overall, the performance in Q3 was quite positive with basically 7%, 8% revenue increase. You see now here also some decrease in the NII, obviously, as we have here now the rate cuts from the Fed and what we immediately has impacted our NII. And that's basically the main reason for that kind of development that the profitability level is a little bit lower.
The business without NII is right on track so far. 2nd question with regard to Clearstream, strategic elements and you referred to the rating obviously. So from our perspective, Clear Stream is a core business. We like that business. And if you see what happens with regard to our weighting number, so as we constantly produce additional cash, as we constantly increase our earnings, obviously, our cash on hand and our debt level capacity increases here.
When I told you last time, I said it's roughly €1,500,000,000 available firepower for M and A transaction. We are now in the level of roughly €2,000,000,000 as we have now a little bit more cash on hand and the debt opportunities has also increased. And so that's €2,000,000,000 I think you can do something with that and it's a reasonable number. And with regard to this €2,000,000,000 as Theodor already mentioned, we are keen really to do an M and H transaction to increase the capability of our company, to increase the certain business. So far, no need to change here something.
And in addition, Bruce, from my side, right, if you look back over the last 10 years and even if you look forward, on average, every year, Clearstream has produced a 3% to 5% fee revenue increase, right? So even without NII, solid business, It's a very robust business. We are sitting on 14,000,000,000,000, yes, 14,000,000,000,000 of assets under custody and servicing. It creates lots of opportunities to continue the market in the backyard of our business, right? We are very nicely positioned as a duopoly game in Europe with 1 competitors out there, even despite the fact that we may have a disadvantage shareholder structure, if I may say so.
We are more dynamic, we are very competitive, and our guys are very commercial, right? It's a very robust business at the end of the day. And therefore, right, unless somebody comes to me and tells me, listen, you can get X with a super duper EBITDA multiple and a huge growth rate, right, then I can theoretically consider, that why shall I sell a or consider to sell a hugely profitable business, which is growing nicely with a strong EBITDA margin.
Thanks. Very clear.
Thank you. The next question comes from Philip Middleton who's calling from Merrill Lynch. Over to you.
Good afternoon. I wonder could you say a little bit more please about pricing within Eurex? You cite that as one of your structural growth initiatives, but could you is there anything more you can say about that?
Yes. Philip, thanks for the question. As you are aware, so 2 or 3 years ago, we changed our philosophy. So over the last 10 years, so we didn't use pricing as an instrument to increase our secular growth, and this changed since the last 2 to 3 years. And we even guided for 'seventeen 'eighteen so that overall, we said pricing impact was roughly 1% of our net revenue number.
And even in this year, maybe it's not exactly the same number, a little bit below, but there is a double digit €1,000,000 pricing impact also on Europe side where you see that revenue per contract increases. So again, we use that on a constantly periodical basis and there are opportunities for us what we are using.
Okay. Thank you.
The next question comes from Ian White, who is calling from Autonomous Research. Please go ahead.
Hi, afternoon. Thanks for taking my questions. Maybe just a couple of clarifications on please. First of all, on guidance for the rest of 2019, should we expect to see the usual seasonality that's on display in the cost base in 4Q as we've seen in prior years? And relatively, can you provide any updated guidance on cost outlook for 2020 at this stage?
And then just lastly, on the exceptionals, are you sort of standing by your guidance for €120,000,000 for this year, please? Thank you.
Okay. Ian, so starting with the first question, seasonality in 2,000 for Q4. Yes, there will be a comparable seasonality effect in Q4 2019 comparable to the level you have seen in 18. On top, you should not forget in Q4 that we see the consolidation effect as I gave you some guidance with regard to the including of Axioma in the Contigo segment for the full year. You should also not forget that another consolidation effect out of the OSMAC on costs for investment fund services here.
So that's a consolidation effect what you will see in Q4 and also for 2020, obviously, when we have the full consolidation of these two business and therefore we gave you exactly the guidance on revenue, on cost for these two business so that you are able to model that a little bit better. With regard to the exceptionals in 2019, we have seen now in Q3 with a €46,000,000 a bigger increase compared to what we guided at the beginning of the year. But that's obviously good news as we were able to conclude our M and A transaction on Axioma. So that was more than half of the €46,000,000 Obviously, that will not happen in Q4. But nevertheless, I would expect that the as a result, we will come sum up higher than the €120,000,000 we guided last time.
With regard to the cost outlook for 2020, I think that's a little bit early. So in general, we will give you guidance for 2020. So starting when we publish our full year results 2019, so roughly mid of February, then we give you some guidance for the 2020 development. But again, as in the past, we will not specifically guide on cost. We will give you guidance on our secular growth.
We will give you guidance around our earnings. And then you can see as a size what is basically then the cost impact out of that. But maybe Thierry, do you want to
In addition, Ian, and listened now to the call and you raised some some of you raised questions on the cost side because we have seen and we reported now pro form a increase on the cost of the same as 10% for Q3, right? But I want to assure you, we don't have any type and any kind of a cost issue here, right, at Deutsche Borse. To be very precise, right, what happened was, we have the usual 5% to 6 percent cost increase. We have a higher significantly higher increase on the revenue side, so the scalability of our model perfectly works. What happened was we had a consolidation, right, effect for the first time of Cotigo.
And secondly, right, the share price increased, and therefore, the negative effect of the competition, probably for the guys working for us, right, they were accounting for way over 60 percent of the increase,
right? Yes. So the concrete number for Q3 is if you see the 10% operating expense increase. So roughly half of it, so 5% relates to consolidation and to share price payments increase. So then you see the other 5% what is basically the normal development, what we really expect.
So here, this consolidation topic and in this specific quarter also, the share price payment, are specific development and we will consider how we will better communicate that in the future so that you get a better understanding that and that's the wrong impression that the cost management is not a high priority for the new management, it's just the opposite is the case.
The next question comes from Mike Verner, who's calling from UBS. Please go ahead.
Thank you very much and good afternoon. I have 3 questions, please. 1, I guess, as we look out to 2020, the focus continues to be on M and A. I guess, is that does that leave any room year, that would be something that we could potentially see next year. And I was just wondering your thoughts on that.
2nd, if you could just provide a little bit more granularity, AOSmark consolidation, how much that contributed to both revenues as well as expenses with regards to your regulatory or with towards migrating to the cloud with regards to your regulatory with your data and workflow, is that still on track for 2020? Thank you.
So, Mike, thanks for the question. So, with regard to potential share buyback, as I mentioned earlier, so roughly €1,000,000,000 cash on hand, obviously, we have to do something with that. Our preferred solution on a on a disciplined approach. And so that's our basic understanding that we will invest that in M and A over the next months. If we see that this is not possible, let's say, over the next months, then obviously we have to consider also share buybacks as you have seen in the past when we did roughly 2x200 €1 or 2 years ago.
So this shows our principal commitment to do share buyback if we have excess cash. But again, the basic assumption, the base case is that we invest that in inorganic initiatives. With regard to OSMARK, so on a quarterly basis, roughly, we have €2,000,000 net revenues and €2,000,000 costs roughly on a quarterly basis. With regard to the migration into the cloud, yes, we made good progress here. You have seen our announcement that we found now good cooperations with Microsoft and with Google and even we are also in discussion with this Amazon Web Services, but with the first two, we have agreement how to do business, how to migrate into the cloud.
And we are currently detailing our implementation plan. It will take 3 to 4 years. So it's not done within 12 months to migrate certain elements of our IT infrastructure into the cloud and in parallel to do the migration of our data center. So therefore, we see also good chances to increase quality and increase efficiency with that kind of cloud strategy.
The last question for today comes from Benjamin Goy, who is calling from Deutsche Bank. Over to you.
Yes, hi. Good afternoon. One follow-up on Clearstream. So whatever political Brexit will be, do you feel that your clients are increasingly Brexit ready and open for new projects, of course, with the the particular link towards your targeted securities initiatives. So can we see more out of that in 2020?
Or should we expect post trading to be driven by IFS going forward again? Thank
you. Yes. So Benjamin, thanks for the question. So indeed, in this year, in 2019, there was a lot of focus of our customers on Brexit. And even today, we do not know what will finally happen out that.
But our view is that now all our customers are prepared for any Brexit scenarios. Therefore, we see a good chance that prioritization in 2020 goes more into our favor, we specifically expect that in the investment fund services business, where we have now really a very strong customer pipeline with high commitments and even with some signed contracts. So here, we have a very high comfort level that investment fund services, we get the right clear realization from a customer perspective. And also with regard to target through securities, we see a better chance in 2020 to get additional revenues out of that. But our view is unchanged.
There should be a regular growth element for Clearstream. But again, it will take a little bit longer than originally planned.
Okay. Thank you.
Chris, we would like to conclude today's call. Thank you very much for your participation, and have a good day.