is at the center of everything we do. We are there whenever you need us, always available, ready to listen, with dedicated solutions for you. We are your Global Hausbank. Our aim is to always be the first choice for our clients. Leading in Europe, represented in 57 countries around the world, and globally networked. Responsibility. It is the basis for growth in all industries and areas. We stand shoulder to shoulder with you around the world with our treasury, payments, and trade finance solutions, and our local expertise. We connect you to the international capital markets and link you with global investors to finance your projects, and we help you manage your risks. We form a solid foundation in the lives of more than 20 million private clients in Europe and the rest of the world, as the first point of contact for all their financial needs.
We are at your side with financial advice and the right investment products for every market. Globally and locally, always your reliable partner. Your Global Hausbank.
Dear shareholders, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to our Annual General Meeting 2024, which I hereby open. We're looking back on an eventful year, which was once again marked by macroeconomic and geopolitical conflicts and challenges. In this volatile environment, Deutsche Bank once again demonstrated its resilience, standing shoulder to shoulder with our clients. Our bank demonstrated sustained revenue growth and delivered its highest pre-tax profit in 16 years. We are especially pleased to again be increasing our capital distribution this year. Today, we propose a dividend of EUR 0.45 per share. That is an increase of 50% year-on-year. Apart from the mere numbers, there's a number of other topics that we're going to discuss with you today. Many of you used the opportunity to submit questions in advance. Once again, this year, we received about 300 questions and answered them.
Before we turn to the questions, we will, however, first of all, take a look at a number of formal points. The meeting was convened and due in proper form, and the convocation document was published in the Federal Gazette on the 26th of March 2024. All Supervisory Board members are present here today. My deputy, Norbert Winkeljohann, and myself as well. Mr. Duscheck, unfortunately, can't be here today. We wish him all the best here. Mr. Duscheck, unfortunately, can't be here today. We wish him all the best and good health. Mayree Clark and John Thain will follow from the U.S. All other members are here in a separate meeting room in this building, from where they follow the AGM and are able to communicate with us here today. I would also like to welcome them all very warmly.
On your right, Mr. Habighorst , our notary public assisting here, he will take notarized minutes. The list of attendees is currently being prepared. It comprises, on the one hand, the proxies for the company who are present in the attendance area here today. All shareholders joining us by electronic means will also be included in the attendee list. We will provide you with more information once the list has been completed. It will then also be made available to everyone, and it will also be accessible to all shareholders and shareholder representatives. The attendance area includes the forum and the ancillary rooms in the B2 section in this building, plus the facilities in B-29, where the back office is hosted, and where later on the votes will be counted. In addition, we have a meeting room for the Supervisory Board and ancillary rooms at A-35 level.
The agenda and the resolutions, the proposed resolutions, are available for inspection here. A copy is held by the notary public. The same thing applies to the announcements of counter proposals submitted in due time, which we also made available on our website. So much on the formal aspects. Ladies and gentlemen, 2023 was another very intense year for the Supervisory Board, too. In total, the Supervisory Board and its committees held 55 meetings. Don't worry, I will not take you through all of these meetings. However, I would like to give you a brief overview of our key priorities. One of these priorities, of course, included our personnel decisions. In April 2023, we made the changes to the Management Board that I presented to you in detail last year.
I would like to take this opportunity to express my sincere thanks to the new management team for the smooth transition and their hard work over the past 12 months. Under the strong and successful leadership of our CEO, Christian Sewing, the management team has once again done an excellent job. In the light of the difficult environment already mentioned, the focus was once again on the bank's resilience and sustained profitability. This was also reflected in the work of the Supervisory Board. The committees focused in particular on the bank's liquidity, on managing credit and market risk, and on potential non-financial risk. This includes regular updates on relevant legal cases. I will not go into detail about the Postbank litigation at this point. Suffice to say that the Management Board will continue to vigorously uphold the bank's position and interests in this matter.
Another key topic was how we further improve our controls in order to protect our clients and the sustained profitability of our bank. To this end, the bank invested around EUR 1.2 billion in 2023, and hired around 1,000 experts worldwide. We also regularly discussed regulatory issues in the Supervisory Board meetings. We know we can do better here. The bank is focused on delivering further improvements, and is making sure that the necessary resources are available. Further strengthening our controls and meeting the high requirements of regulators in this area is essential for the success of our bank. It therefore continues to be one of the most important priorities this year, against which we will also evaluate Management Board performance.
Other key issues the Supervisory Board dealt with last year include the restrictions for our clients following the migration of Postbank IT to a common platform. The Management Board regularly reported to the Supervisory Board on how backlogs that had arisen were resolved, and how such problems can be avoided in future. It is quite clear in this context that our bank failed to meet our service and quality standards on this occasion, and disappointed our clients. Both the Management Board and the Supervisory Board have apologized sincerely for this. Having made additional investment in technology, processes, and controls last year, it was even more important to maintain cost discipline. Here, too, the Management Board reported regularly to the Supervisory Board on our progress. A further focus was on our financial targets up to 2025, including, in particular, our capital objectives and distributions to you, our shareholders.
Above all, however, last year was about setting the course for future growth. The Supervisory Board, for example, dealt intensively with the strategic development of the corporate culture and business model. The Supervisory Board expressly supports the stronger focus on the bank's role as a Global Hausbank for our clients. Christian Sewing will tell you more about this in detail in a moment. So much in terms of looking back on the past year. As always, you will find more information in the annual report. I would now like to address two forward-looking issues, both of which are particularly close to my heart: the new Management Board compensation system and the definition of a clear corporate purpose. First of all, let me turn to the Management Board compensation system, which we have revised and you will vote on today.
We have performed a fundamental review of the system, and of course, we've also taken account of market trends, as well as the feedback from our investors. At its core, we are pursuing two objectives. First, we want to simplify the system, making it more transparent. Variable compensation will, in future, depend on significantly fewer targets and performance indicators. Second, we aim to align how we evaluate Management Board members' performance even more closely with the interest of our shareholders. This applies above all to the long-term component of variable remuneration, which will no longer be measured against past years' results. In the new system, compensation is based on how targets develop over the following three-year period. Targets that are particularly important to us include diversity as well as climate protection objectives.
The revised compensation system will be made effective use of by the Supervisory Board, and you can be confident of this. Over the past two years, we have demonstrated that we strive for consistent performance-based compensation. This also means taking responsibility for negative developments, which is also adequately reflected in compensation. The new revised compensation system will already apply for this financial year. We therefore ask you for your approval today. Even more fundamental to the long-term success of our bank is the second topic I'd like to elaborate on: our identity and the definition of a purpose. A shared understanding of what this bank and our employees stand for, why we are here, what we aspire to, and how we get there.
For more than a year, the Management Board has been working intensively on a framework that brings together our bank's purpose, strategy, vision, and aspirational culture. A mission that is also dear to the Supervisory Board and me personally. We have therefore supported the process explicitly and closely monitored progress. Personally, I strongly believe in the power of purpose-led organizations. I am convinced that companies that want to be successful in the long term need something that guides and unites employees for the benefit of our clients and other stakeholders. In purpose aligns goals, values, and actions. It unites us as a bank. It provides us with orientation, even when taking difficult decisions. It gives us meaning and conveys pride. Pride in what we do for our clients and, equally important, how we do it.
Our purpose, which Christian Sewing will present to you in a moment, puts our clients at the center of everything we do. This unwavering focus on our clients must be our top priority. For me, this is what our Global Hausbank is all about, and it is the basis for lasting success for you, our shareholders. I am deeply convinced of this. The bank is on the right track. I would like to use this opportunity once more to thank all our employees for their dedication and hard work every day to enable further progress for our Deutsche Bank. I also thank the entire Management Board for its successful work, and in particular, Christian Sewing for his strong leadership and unwavering commitment to the bank. Of course, a heartfelt thank you to my colleagues in the Supervisory Board.
After a number of changes over the past year, we came together quickly as a team to continue to lend constructive support to the bank on its path to success. Our CEO, Christian Sewing, will now explain to you in greater detail how we envisage this continued path to success. By way of conclusion, just one comment. Just as last year, I will pass over chairmanship of the AGM to my deputy, Norbert Winkeljohann, upon the presentation of Christian Sewing. Thank you very much. Over to you, Christian Sewing.
Dear shareholders, I also would like to welcome you most cordially to this year's annual general meeting. For me, it is also a notable one, because this is the 10th time that I have attended an annual general meeting as a member of the Management Board of Deutsche Bank, and it is the 7th time that I've had the honor of reporting to you as CEO. I am pleased to be able to report many positive developments again this year and to give you an outlook for the years ahead. 2023 was another very good year for Deutsche Bank. We achieved a strong increase in business in revenue growth. We made pretax profit of more than EUR 5 billion, and we once again accelerated our strategic development.
In doing so, we laid a strong foundation for future growth, and we have laid the groundwork to increase distributions to you, ladies and gentlemen. We can be particularly proud of this accomplishment as we achieved it in a difficult environment. The geopolitical situation is volatile, characterized by wars and conflicts. The economy is also facing increasing headwinds. Protectionism and self-interest are spreading. In addition, there is weak growth, especially here in Germany and Europe, which was exacerbated by rising interest rates in 2023. Structural problems, such as high energy prices or excessive bureaucracy and regulation, make the situation even more difficult. And all this at a time, ladies and gentlemen, when we must overcome challenges posed by technological disruptions, such as artificial intelligence and the transition to a sustainable economy. And this environment will not change fundamentally in 2024. That makes one thing essential: guidance.
We want to give our clients this sense of direction. We want to be their compass and help them navigate through these difficult times, at the same time encouraging new growth. But we can only do that if we are clear about our own identity. Only when everyone at Deutsche Bank understands who we are, where we want to go, and what needs to be done, can we get the best out of ourselves. Only then can we be fully there for our clients, and only then can we grow sustainably. Over the past few years, we knew what had to be, what we had to do. We first had to stabilize our bank, reposition, and refocus it on our clients. We had to transform it in order to be profitable again. We've done that.
We are back in growth mode, and now we are taking the next step, focusing on the long term. At this point, it is important to sharpen our purpose. And that's what we've been doing over the past few months, as our Chairman of the Supervisory Board, Alex Wynaendts, just mentioned. Sincere, sincere thanks goes to Alex at this point, because he and the entire Supervisory Board supported us greatly throughout this process, the result of which is crystallized in this sense: dedicated to our clients' lasting success and financial security at home and abroad. It emphasizes even more strongly what we stand for and what I have underlined again and again since 2018. It must be our aspiration to be at the center of society and to put our clients at the center of everything we do. For us, it's not about maximizing short-term profits.
It is about long-term, trusting partnerships in which our clients feel safe and in which we make progress together. We are convinced that this is the only way to ensure our sustainable success. This self-image must guide us every day, and it applies to all our approximately 90,000 employees worldwide. Obviously, words alone can have little effect, which is why it is so important that our purpose is reflected in our vision, in our strategy, and in our culture. It is crucial that we embed it firmly in our day-to-day actions and processes. That also means giving back more responsibility to our business divisions. Since we have started our transformation, many decisions have been taken centrally in the past few years. Now, we want to gradually return more decisions to the businesses, of course, without letting up on our controls or on risk management.
Focusing on the business and on our clients in this way is one of our top priorities, and that is exactly why I also want to focus on our clients today. I would like to show you a few examples of how we already live our purpose today. This is particularly evident where we have been working for our clients for a long time, often over many generations. Take Mercedes-Benz, for example. Last year, we hosted Mercedes CEO, Ola Källenius, and I brought him a letter of recommendation at that time, a letter of recommendation for Carl Benz from a predecessor institution of our bank, a letter written in 1899. Ladies and gentlemen, since then, our two companies have been working closely together.
Pretty much exactly 100 years ago, we supported the merger of Daimler and Benz, and to this very day, we continue to serve the Mercedes-Benz Group as its house bank all over the world with our global network and our local expertise. An internal international reach has been part of our DNA since we opened the first international branches in Shanghai and Yokohama in 1872. Deutsche Bank was founded to accompany German companies abroad, and that's what defines us to this day. For example, we support the Hamburg-based, family-owned company, Helm AG, in its expansion, specifically in the Asia-Pacific region. Among other things, Helm trades in chemical products, the prices of which are often very volatile. The company continuously expands its portfolio, especially regionally. That's why it needs a bank that has the flexibility to quickly adjust credit lines and apply them to different countries.
That's exactly what we can do. Mercedes and Helm are just two examples that show what drives us: the lasting success and financial security of our clients at home and abroad. In order to live up to this aspiration, it is important that we are robust and profitable, and we succeeded at this again last year. Our clients conducted more business with us, which meant that our revenues increased by 6% to almost EUR 29 billion. At the same time, we have remained disciplined in terms of spending, with adjusted costs growing at a slower rate than inflation at 3%. Thanks to this operational strength, we were able to increase our pre-tax profit again. At EUR 5.7 billion, we achieved our best result in 16 years.
This success is based on the four strong pillars of our bank, our four businesses which complement each other and thus give us stability. In the past year, the corporate bank and the private bank benefited particularly strongly from the interest rate environment and significantly increased revenues. All areas of the corporate bank recorded double-digit growth, while in the private bank, the German unit stood out with strong revenue growth as well as high net inflows. Ladies and gentlemen, when I talk about the private bank in Germany, I cannot do so without mentioning the sometimes considerable delays and restrictions that some clients experienced following the move of Postbank's IT to a common platform. I can only emphasize that we fell short of the expectations of our clients here and the expectations that we have set ourselves. We are sorry for this inconvenience, and we have apologized.
As announced, we managed the backlog of client-critical processes, which were also the subject of BaFin's orders by the end of March, and we continue to work on improvements. New requests from clients are generally dealt with within the expected processing times. At the same time, we know that we still have more work to do to further improve our client service. This includes, among other things, further automating processes to ensure that processing times in all areas consistently meet expectations and requirements. Coming back to our businesses, the fact that our corporate bank and our private bank delivered particularly good results in 2023 should not detract from the performance of the investment bank and asset management. Both performed well in a difficult market environment and positioned themselves for future growth.
This is already evident in the first three months of the current year, especially in the investment bank, where investments in our origination and advisory business are bearing fruit. DWS also had a very good first quarter, and thanks to continued inflows, has laid the foundation for further increases in revenues. We are very proud of what we achieved in all our four business areas, and we're also proud of the fact that we were able to keep our risks under control at all times in a challenging environment. Our risk management has once again lived up to its first-class reputation. Building on our high quality and well-diversified loan book, we were able to keep loan losses and loan loss provisions within a very tight range. And we are well prepared if the economy remains bumpy, which we assume.
In terms of costs, the past year was a turning point for us. In 2023, we invested in business, technology, and controls. Added to this were restructuring and severance costs related to the strategy, as well as extraordinary items such as goodwill impairment relating to the corporate broker, Numis. A large part of these costs will not recur. Finally, we were able to make great progress on capital in 2023. We had to reserve less capital for risks on our balance sheet and, at the same time, created capital organically in our business operations. The bottom line is that we have strengthened our capital base and created room for maneuver, scope for further investments and, above all, potential for higher distributions to you, our shareholders. I am very pleased that we can once again reward you more strongly for your loyalty.
Last year, we increased our dividend by 50% and spent EUR 450 million on share buybacks, which was also equivalent to a 50% increase year-on-year. Today, we are proposing to increase the dividend by another 50% to EUR 0.45 per share. And we launched another share buyback program of EUR 675 million in March, and we start with that in March, and half of which has already been completed. Ladies and gentlemen, we can therefore look back on a year in which we have taken another important step forward. And we are not the only ones in viewing it this year, this way. Last year, three of the leading global rating agencies, Fitch, DBRS Morningstar, and Standard & Poor's, further upgraded our ratings.
We want to continue on this successful path, and we have a clear picture in mind, a vision of what we want to achieve. As the Global Hausbank, we want to be the European champion and the first choice for our clients. To be a European champion, we need to be successful internationally and offer our clients a strong global network. Europe is and remains the central market for us. Ladies and gentlemen, Europe is our home market, and as the largest bank in Europe's leading economy, we can settle for nothing less than being the European champion. At the same time, we are convinced that Europe urgently needs a strong domestic bank with a global focus. Europe needs an alternative to US Banks if it wants to reduce dependencies and attain strategic sovereignty.
As a Global Hausbank, Deutsche Bank has all the prerequisites to be this European alternative. But what does being global... the Global Hausbank actually mean? Now, let me explain this in more detail. Being a Global Hausbank means making the entire bank available to clients. We can only achieve this if our business and infrastructure units work closely together. A very good example is the cooperation with Miles & More, which makes us the exclusive banking partner of the loyalty program with the Lufthansa Miles & More credit card. This is an important success for us in the payments business and the result of intense bank-wide collaboration across the corporate bank, the private bank, and our technology and infrastructure functions. Being a Global Hausbank means first-class and extensive advice, like in the case of Schott Pharma.
In September last year, we arranged the company's IPO, which was the largest in Western Europe in 2023. Deutsche Bank shaped the company's positioning vis-à-vis competitors and presented it to investors worldwide. And this paid off. At the IPO, Schott Pharma had a market capitalization of just over EUR 4 billion. Being a Global Hausbank means identifying and mitigating risks for our clients. This aspect cannot be overemphasized in uncertain times that we are experiencing. Our solutions help our clients protect themselves against uncertainty and provide them with financial security. Our clients know that they can rely on us all over the world on a small and large scale. This applies when we help clients secure their liquidity in times of rising interest rates and volatile markets, and it equally applies when we help our private clients avoid becoming victims of fraud.
Last year, we were able to do this on several occasions. Being a Global Hausbank means keeping up with the times and enabling modern technological solutions for our clients. One example is the work we do for Siemens. We are supporting the company in the introduction of a virtual account structure that will allow German payment transactions to be processed with only one central bank account, and that simplifies matters for both Siemens and its clients. Being a Global Hausbank means accompanying clients from all over the world, wherever they go. We don't just support German companies' global ambitions, we support clients from all over the world with their international development. A good example is the startup XTransfer from Shanghai. XTransfer offers accounts to Chinese businesses that allow them to accept payments in more than 200 countries and regions.
We help XTransfer collect payments from local buyers in local currencies and then convert them into U.S. dollars or Chinese yuan, so that they can be paid out to the Chinese merchants. Being a Global Hausbank means enabling lasting client success that goes far beyond the financial. Sustainability is a strategic factor in our client relationships. And sustainability, that means environmental, social, and also good governance considerations in equal measure. More and more transactions have at least one ESG component, and more and more often, we support clients as they take major steps in their sustainable transformation. Salzgitter AG is one such example. The company has launched a project to produce low-carbon steel in Germany in the future. Once production gets underway, the project has the capacity to reduce Germany's aggregate carbon emissions by 1%.
We granted Salzgitter export financing worth EUR 500 million and acted as sole sustainability coordinator. These loans are in line with the EU Taxonomy and the Green Loan Principles of the Loan Market Association. This is just one of many examples of the expertise we have built up in the ESG space. Over the past year alone, we have facilitated sustainable financing and ESG investments worth EUR 64 billion. Overall, and including the first quarter of 2024, we are now at a volume of more than EUR 300 billion since the beginning of 2020. At the same time, we have expanded and sharpened our own policies and commitments to credibly and resolutely accompany our clients on the path to a sustainable economy and society.
After we presented our overall strategy at our second Sustainability Deep Dive in March 2023, the publication of our first transition plan in October was another milestone. This plan describes how Deutsche Bank aims to achieve its net zero targets. Our biggest lever here is in the loans we grant to clients from carbon-intensive industries, with whom we are in close dialogue. In this context, in 2023, we published net zero trajectories for three more segments. This means that more than half of all emissions that we finance through corporate loans are now covered by exactly such pathways.... We do all this to contribute to an environmentally sound, socially inclusive, and better-managed economy. A contribution that we want to have as great an impact as possible. Our actions are not just limited to Germany, they are global. Something that also makes the Global Hausbank so special.
Being a Global Hausbank also means that we play an active part in improving the communities in which we are active for our clients. We can do this through our core business or through our contribution to society. Dear shareholders, last year, we invested EUR 52.6 million in social projects, either ourselves or through our foundations. Almost four million people have benefited from this. There's another figure that I am proud of. Last year, more than 23,000 Deutsche Bank employees worldwide were involved in social projects and invested more than 212,000 hours in them. One focus of our commitment has been on the financial education of the next generation. In the aftermath of Hamas attack on Israel and the worldwide increase in antisemitic incidents, we donated EUR 1 million to charitable institutions that teach tolerance and empathy to young people.
At the same time, we also oppose the spread of right-wing populism. Deutsche Bank stands for diversity. We are present in 57 countries, and our employees represent more than 150 nationalities. Ladies and gentlemen, there is no place for intolerance, exclusion, and hatred at Deutsche Bank. We send this signal to the outside world, but also to our employees. It is part of our social responsibility, and that is very important to us and to me personally. Dear shareholders, I have given you a few examples of how we breathe life into our Global Hausbank strategy. They show that we have already achieved a lot, and that's reflected in our results. We are in an excellent position to be our clients' first choice for a Global Hausbank and to realize our vision of becoming a European champion. But we need to do more.
Despite all the progress, we still need to improve in some areas, and we have to continue to evolve, just as the environment and competition evolve. I'm not talking about fundamental changes to our setup. We have the right strategy. Our four business units are all leaders in their market segments, and we know what we need to take the next step and grow sustainably. Five things are crucial. First, we need to further sharpen our business model. We've been focusing on our strengths since 2019, but this must be an ongoing process. We must keep checking where we can sharpen up and make even more targeted investments in those areas where we are strongest, offer the most value to our clients, and can also operate most profitably. Second, we are doing everything we can to become an even more efficient organization.
The disciplined use of the available resources is the be-all and end-all. We have already achieved a lot, but we still have room for development here. With the increased expenditure in the past year, we have paved the way to significantly reduce costs from this year onwards. Technology and leaner processes will help us with this. However, we must also remain disciplined in our spending. After all, cost discipline creates the space for us to invest in future growth. Third, we must remain disciplined with capital. We can become even better in allocating our capital to the various business areas. We need clearer targets of what the individual areas are supposed to achieve. We need to control the use of capital more strictly according to whether the targets have been achieved and what the future prospects are. Fourth, we will continue to gradually strengthen our risk management.
This is absolutely crucial in these times. And it's not just about protecting our clients, it's also about guaranteeing our stability. This includes further strengthening our controls in order to be prepared, for example, to resist the increasingly sophisticated methods of financial crime. But this also means that we must arm ourselves against other risks. I'm here thinking of speculative attacks continuously try to attack banks' data networks. Strengthening our controls is of utmost importance. We have already achieved a lot here, but we also know that we need to further improve. We are working on just that. To this end, we are in close dialogue with our regulators, and we'll continue to invest in controls and processes until we meet all expectations here. We owe that to our clients, and we owe it to you, our shareholders.
Because only when we have our controls in order can we be successful in the long term. Fifth, a strong corporate culture is critical to execute our vision and live our purpose. We want to empower everyone in the bank to excel together every day. To this end, we strive for a corporate culture in which our employees act responsibly, think commercially, take initiative, and work collaboratively. We can strengthen this culture with systems, structures, policies, and processes, but what matters is how we behave. We want to empower our employees to be risk aware and confident at the same time, to ask questions, to innovate, and to look for solutions that create a first-class client experience. And we will make progress on this and the other points this year.
The greater these advances, the better we can be at being there for our clients, and the sooner our vision of becoming the European champion will be within reach. Ladies and gentlemen, the next milestone on our way to our vision is at the end of 2025. We have set ourselves specific financial targets for this time, and following last year's good results, we made them even more ambitious at the beginning of February. These targets remain unchanged, and the recent development in the Postbank litigation changes nothing either. I want to stress this emphatically, as we have had this question put to us several times following the hearing in the proceedings on April 26th. After the Higher Regional Court indicated that it could rule in favor of the plaintiffs, we set aside a provision of EUR 1.3 billion. We are obliged to do so.
We are still of the opinion that Deutsche Bank had neither taken control of Postbank before the purchase ban had come into effect, nor before the purchase agreement had been approved by the Federal Supervisory Authority, BaFin. Yes, I'm also concerned that a ruling in favor of the plaintiffs would set a precedent that would have far-reaching negative consequences for German financial markets, especially as a location for M&A. Takeovers of listed companies would be subject to considerable legal uncertainties in the future. Of course, the provision for the Postbank case will negatively impact our results in the current year. But, ladies and gentlemen, it doesn't change our strategy. As I already said, we continue to be confident that we are on track to achieve our financial targets for 2025. The strong results in the first quarter confirm our optimism.
We increased our profit by 10% year-over-year. We increased revenue slightly to EUR 7.8 billion, and we reduced adjusted costs by 6% year-over-year to EUR 5 billion. In other words, we achieved our quarterly cost target. We are very pleased with these figures. They are further proof of our continued progress. The share price tells us this, too. Since the beginning of the year, it has risen by roughly 30%, and since our annual general meeting last year, it is up by almost 70%. But we want to make even more progress. We want to accelerate our growth trajectory, and this is also reflected in our financial targets. First of all, this applies to the earnings outlook.
Originally, we wanted to achieve annual average revenue growth of 3.5%-4.5% for the years 2021-2025. Having consistently been higher over the past three years, we have also raised this target to 5.5%-6.5% per year. By the end of 2025, this would bring us to a revenue level of around EUR 32 billion. In terms of costs, our aim is to achieve a level that protects us against negative external influences in an uncertain environment, and we see this level at around EUR 20 billion per year, and we want to reach it in 2025. We also continue to aim for a cost-income ratio below 62.5% by the end of 2025.
If we deliver on revenues and costs, we should also achieve our target for the return on equity. For the end of 2025, we have set ourselves a target return on tangible equity of more than 10%. We continue to aim for a CET1 ratio of around 13%. All of this forms the basis for us to keep the promise that we made to you, our shareholders. We want to gradually increase capital distributions, and we have set ourselves the goal of increasing them by 50% per year. With our dividend proposal and the share buyback that has already been launched, we remain true to this commitment. With these two steps, we want to return EUR 1.6 billion of capital to you, the shareholders. Since 2022, this would amount to a total of EUR 3.3 billion.
Ladies and gentlemen, we remain confident that for the years 2021- 2025, we will be able to distribute more than the EUR 8 billion that we had initially aimed for as our target. Continuing to increase our payouts to you remains a top priority for us. Dear shareholders, it was important for me to explain to you today what we stand for as a bank, to talk about our client focus and our dedication to our clients' lasting success and financial security at home and abroad. What do our customers say about us? We asked, we asked a couple of them, and we recorded their answers in this video. We have asked our colleagues to answer these questions and to ask them-
I mean, it's all about our clients ... listening and asking questions. [Foreign language] Fabio ist... I think Sabrina will say Ist halt Fabio. Fabio is Fabio.[Foreign language] I am reliable, and we communicate open and honestly. We are very personal. We've got a very close relationship. We work and exchange ideas. We tackle difficult situations. [Foreign language] I think the clients see that we do our business in order to help our clients and not to help ourselves. Hopefully, he can see and feel that I'm looking to build a long-term relationship with him and that I'm not motivated by a 12-month cycle. That's what the customers think of what he said?
I think when you work with somebody for so long, you know, just like relationships transition to friendships, right? So I feel like you go, like, the extra mile for friends. And Gary, you know, it's clear to me Gary's doing that for us. ... [Foreign language]. Well, he's part of my life and always supports me when I need him. One thing that's very clear is, Burkhard is very happy to share his views. I mean, he's not the kind of person who's just, going to tell you what is the right thing.
[Foreign language] We don't need anybody who keeps saying yes all the time. No, we need somebody who reflects on that. If I trust someone, I'm willing to say no. I'm not after the best deal. I'm after feeling, you know, well looked after. That's very nice. [Foreign language] Honesty. Openness
[Foreign language] You know, hopefully one day it'll be my daughter speaking to Alexis or maybe speaking to his daughter. [Foreign language] We don't want you to be in everything. We just want you to be in things where you think you're gonna be great. And what you've accomplished is pretty impressive. [Foreign language] Nobody asked the first time we met. Do you remember the first time we met? Mark Flaherty's office. See, I don't even remember that. That's pretty good. Yeah.
Ladies and gentlemen, these are honest responses of clients. I think you were able to see that for yourselves. They show the great respect and appreciation for our colleagues who serve these, these clients, and that's something that we are very happy about. And I'm even happier to know that these colleagues of ours represent our total of 90,000 people working in our bank, achieving great things every day. Deutsche Bank can be proud to have these people on board, at home and abroad. I am enormously proud of all of you, dear colleagues, and I am grateful. Grateful for your excellent work and continued commitment. Grateful for your dedication to our clients, your engagement for social causes, and your care for each other. And grateful for your accomplishments that make the success of our bank possible in the first place.
Very special thanks also to my team on the Management Board for the spirit of trust in which we work and for their commitment to the bank's continued progress. I would also like to thank our Supervisory Board for our constructive collaboration. Together, we have already achieved a lot, and there is still a lot we want to achieve together. We have a clear idea of who we are. We know what we want to achieve, and we know what it takes to get there. I'm very much looking forward to the years to come. Thank you very much.
Very clear explanations. Dear shareholders, as Christian Sewing gave the shareholders a very clear idea of how the Management Board sees the bank and which path it wants to follow. And the Supervisory Board will continue to support and constructively accompany the Management Board on this journey. Ladies and gentlemen, before we enter into the agenda, it's been a well-established tradition at our AGMs that we commemorate the employees and pensioners who have passed. I would just like to ask everyone present to rise from their seats. In the past business year, 80 of our active employees and 660 of our pensioners passed away. Our thoughts are with them as they are with the victims of war and armed conflicts all over the world.
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for raising to commemorate the deceased. We now turn to the agenda that comprises nine items. Item number one is the annual financial statements of Deutsche Bank for fiscal 2023. This includes, among other things, the established annual financial statements and the management report for Deutsche Bank AG, which is established according to a German commercial code. It also includes the approved consolidated financial statements and management report according to IFRS, as well as a report of the Supervisory Board. These documents have been made available on our website since March. The annual financial statements and the management report, as well as the approved consolidated financial statements and consolidated management report, have been audited by Ernst & Young [Foreign language] . Neither the audit through the auditor nor the review by the Supervisory Board have given rise to any objections.
The auditor thus issued an unqualified auditor's opinion. The Supervisory Board has approved the annual financial statements and the consolidated financial statement at its meeting on March 13th, 2024. The annual financial statement has just been established according to Section 172 of the German Stock Corporation Act. Now, ladies and gentlemen, when it comes to next items of the agenda, they are available in full text on our AGM websites. These items are: appropriation of distributable profit for fiscal 2023. The Management Board and the Supervisory Board propose to pay out a dividend of EUR 0.45 per share from the distributable profit. The updated motion for a resolution, considering own shares as of today, can also be found and retrieved on the internet page of the bank.
Item number three and four is ratification of the acts of the Management Board and the Supervisory Board. Item number five, selection of the auditor and the election of the auditor of the sustainability report. We thus suggest to again elect Ernst & Young GmbH [Foreign langugae] . We also suggest to entrust them with the audit of the sustainability report. It will most likely become necessary for 2024. Item number six is the resolution on the approval of the compensation report for fiscal 2023. Item number seven is about the changed compensation system for Management Board members, and we are asking you for approval of this changed compensation system.
Items 8 and 9 are about approving annually recurring resolutions for the acquisition of own shares in the framework of share buyback programs, as well as the use of derivatives for the flexible implementation of these programs. Ladies and gentlemen, finally, let me point out that counter proposals and an election proposal are published - were published on our website in keeping with the legal requirements according to Section 126 and 127, German Stock Corporation Law. Precondition for this was that these proposals and motions get to us before the end of the 15th day, before today's AGM, and that they required publication. We also published statements from shareholders that were not connected to counter proposals. Now, ladies and gentlemen, this concludes my explanations on the agenda.
Let me now announce the first attendance of the share capital of EUR 5,106,436,078.08, subdivided into 1,971,535 non-par value shares. In today's AGM, 837,505,403 shares, with the same number of votes are represented, which is 41.96% of the share capital. Apart is for 129,819,166 shares. The possibility of casting an absentee ballot was used. If you add those votes, we have an attendance rate of 48.47% of the share capital.
The attendance list has already been uploaded to the shareholders portal and is there available for the shareholder and shareholder representatives that are online, so you can inspect it there. In the shareholder portal, the attendance list will be updated during the course of the AGM. Another formal update of the attendance will only be given in connection with the voting process. Well, ladies and gentlemen, as in the last few years, Deutsche Bank has been paying special attention to safeguarding shareholders' rights and enabling interaction with the participation of its shareholders when planning its AGM. Now, this year, it was exactly that intention that made us provide shareholders the possibility of sending in questions in advance, which were then answered by the bank, by the day before yesterday, and then published on its website.
Here you will find more than about 290 questions and answers, which in part consists of explanations that summarize answers providing a broader context. This format, on the one hand, gives the bank the possibility to deal with the questions raised in a more intensive fashion. On the other hand, it makes space for more focused exchange at today's AGM. Now, in order to give appropriate room today to matters, essential matters that were addressed by various shareholders before the AGM. The Management Board will address some of these matters and provide explanations that were also included in the answers provided on the website during the course of this AGM. Ladies and gentlemen, it's of utmost importance that we have a live exchange on all statements, where you basically enjoy all the rights as in a person, in-person meeting.
As the meeting chairman, I determined, in accordance with Section 131, para. 1 of the Stock Corporation Act Section 131 (1)(f) of the Stock Corporation Law, that questions may only be asked in the context of video statements, this is when making use of the right to speak. Let me also point out that today, only add-on questions within the meaning of Article 131, para. 1 D, and questions on new matters within the meaning of Section 131 (1)(e) of the Stock Corporation Law will be answered. Now, as communicated in the invitation, you can register in our password-protected shareholder portal as of 9:30 A.M. today, if you want to take the floor via the button, Redebeitrag anmelden.
We've already received some requests for the floor, but again, may I ask you at this juncture again to register early so that we can plan ahead properly? In this context, ladies and gentlemen, I'd also like to ask you to identify if you wish to comment on particular focus areas or submit a motion, so that we can take this into consideration when determining the sequence of speakers. After registering a request for the floor, you will see this in what is called Meine Redebeiträge, My Statements. Status of your request can be inferred from the color coding. Directly after registration, the color will be orange. This is to signal that your, that we received your request and are working at it.
Now, as we did last year, we will have blocks of speakers, and the speakers of each block will be contacted for a technical check before the start of every round of speakers. Ladies and gentlemen, please be aware that depending on the number of speakers and the allocation to a block, we might only be contacting you later in the meeting. Now, at the appropriate time, we will then invite you to the waiting room via a pop-up window occurring on the shareholder portal. Here, an operator will get in touch with you to check the technical functionality of your video communication. Let me point out that all the functions of the portal will be available to you while you are in the waiting room. Ladies and gentlemen, I would like, in the following, give you a report regarding the exclusion of subscription rights.
Now, ladies and gentlemen, for the first round of speakers, we will be contacting the speakers for the first round straight away. The following people are up: Andreas Thormählen, Alexandra Annecke, Klaus Nieding, and Markus Kienle. Please get ready for the technical check that will start in a moment. We will most likely not require a break before anymore, before every round of speakers. Our technicians will now get in contact with the named shareholders and shareholder representatives to link them up and check functionality. Ladies and gentlemen, please be ready if you're registered to taking the floor and your name is called, and please also let us know if you decide against making an envisaged contribution. You can then either withdraw your request to speak directly in the shareholders portal, which will simplify operations, or you can do so when speaking with the operator later.
Now, based on the experience of this year's AGM season so far, I'm cautiously optimistic that we will not need a strict limitation of speaking time. However, I have to retain the right to do so. In respect of that, I would already like to ask all speakers to limit their statement to 10 minutes. 10 minutes, so that speakers coming after them can take the floor within an appropriate time as well. Now, to provide the same conditions for everyone, the speaker and myself, speaker and myself only, will see a clock to provide a point of orientation. After nine minutes have elapsed, the green display will change to amber, signaling the request to please make time for the next speakers. After 10 minutes have elapsed, the display color will change to red. Now, you will, of course, be free to register again for making another statement.
Now, however, before we enter into the discussion, I would like to ask James von Moltke and give him the opportunity to explain to him how the Management Board used the authorization of capital measures, excluding subscription rights, during the year under review. James, the floor is all yours.
Thank you very much, Norbert. Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to briefly provide you with some explanations regarding subscription right exclusions in connection with the transfer of treasury shares to employees and the acquisition of Deutsche Bank shares. Since the last annual general meeting in 2023, there has been no issuance of shares or additional Tier 1 capital instruments. Therefore, and so far, there was also no exclusion of subscription rights required.
Since the AGM in 2023, a total of 111.5 million shares, this is approximately 5.6% of the current nominal share capital, were repurchased under the authorization to purchase treasury shares in accordance with Section 71, Para. 1, No. 8, Stock Corporation Act. Thereof, 71.1 million shares have been repurchased for redemption. The remaining 40.3 million shares were repurchased for past and future compensation purposes, in particular, from share-based variable compensation programs, as stipulated by the German Regulation and Compensation in the Banking Industry, also called Institutsvergütungsverordnung. Since the last annual general meeting, 39.6 million Deutsche Bank shares, which had previously been acquired under the current or previous authorization, were transferred to employees under compensation programs or employee share programs, with the exclusion of subscription rights. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your attention.
Thank you very much, James. Ladies and gentlemen, I see the first speakers are now waiting to take the floor. Let me briefly remind you again to please stick to your speaking time of ten minutes. Please don't speak any longer than that. The first speaker is Mr. Andreas Thormählen. Mr. Thormählen. I'd also like Mr. Klaus Nieding and Mr. Markus Kienle to get ready. Mr. Thormählen, the floor is all yours.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, dear members of the Management Board, dear shareholders, my name is Andreas Thormählen. I'm representing Deka Investment, which is the biggest, which is the representative of the Sparkasse. Mr. Sewing, you've been trying to win back trust of investors and customers, making many efforts. You were you promised sinking costs, increasing share price, et cetera, et cetera.
On April 25, you euphorically announced the best quarterly results since 2013, and, well, just one day later, there was a shock. There was a legal dispute with Postbank shareholders, which goes 15 years back. You have to set up a provision of EUR 1.3 million. This is basically in line. This is basically equivalent to the entire profit made in the first quarter. You know, this was thunderstruck. Shareholders were thunderstruck. So trust was destroyed again, and you cannot afford this because, you know, we have not really seen an upwards trajectory over the past 2 years. You were basically marking time, although revenues increased by 6%. Stable businesses profited and benefited from an increase in interest rates, but the profits made there were actually eaten up by a decrease in investment banking.
Also, the costs were higher than anticipated. Here, you have to do a lot of rework. Deutsche Bank share in the last year did not stand a comparison with European banking index. You know, this year it's going well, however, the book value is still fairly low, so price to book. But the quality of profits increased. The stable business now make a bigger contribution to the profit. The loan loss provisions is solid, and there was just a slight increase of default rate. ROTE was 7.4%, but affected by positive tax effects, it was only 5.6%. Mr. Sewing and Mr. Von Moltke, we would like to know from you:
How do you wanna keep costs at EUR 20 billion and at the same time ramp up revenues to more than EUR 32 billion as provided for in the strategy program, the strategy project? I mean, this is a precondition to getting to an ROTE of above 10%. This is a very ambitious program. Implementation of that is your core task, because it's only then that the share can go out of the trap of undervaluation. So what are the next steps? What are your plans? Increased interest rates and interest rate income is at a level that it will most probably not increase in 2025, so you are banking on an increase in provisions and commissions.
Stable businesses, the corporate bank, the private bank, and asset management are to increase their revenues considerably in order to make the bank more stable and more diversified, and this is absolutely necessary for you to achieve your targets. Now, let's have a detailed look into the various businesses. The investment bank last year lost revenue, but when it comes to fixed income business, you're well-positioned. You won market share, and this year you are also to benefit from the higher issuing rate of bonds. What is the role of the Numis acquisition in that case? Where do you want to grow in strategic advisory? Asset management faces difficulty. DWS in 2023 earned less, and for 2024, they assume that also profits will stagnate. So, growth is to be generated by alternative investments, multi-asset, and index products, primarily.
Here, we would like to know, when it comes to asset management, do you want to grow organically, continue to grow organically, or might you be looking at investments? The KGaA structure has been a problem for quite some time, you know. This leads to the fact that your share price is marked down, so please end this nonsense. When it comes to the corporate bank, you want to provide a more comprehensive offer to your clients. When it comes to payments, you wanna be more successful, also when it comes to custodianship for digital assets. What about e-commerce? How far have you advanced there? You know, what is the potential for the loan growth? What about the situation in the United States as regards commercial real estate, and what are the risks here?
When it comes to the private bank, last year it was on fire. I mean, we had customer complaints, in the wake of the Postbank integration. You did not only destroy money here, but also reputation. Now, you say that you're done with that. Is that really the case? Are there any follow-up costs from the integration with Postbank? And, what about, existing customer complaints? And we want to get back to the provisions for the Postbank case. I mean, just think about this, EUR 1.3 billion out of thin air. How can you be so wrong in your assessment of things, you know? Are you trying to come up with a settlement, or are you waiting for the, court judgment and then appeal? What will be the effect on the distributions for us shareholders for 2024?
Ladies and gentlemen, wealth management is to make a bigger contribution in Germany and abroad. Now, what about the wealth management and the extension of private banking and wealth management? What are the revenues that you assume will come in as a result of the cooperation with Talanx? How would you position the private bank in the market in the future? Now, let's have a look at the core topic of Deutsche Bank. This is costs. Costs have absolutely have to be brought down to the EUR 20 billion up until 2025. The track record of Deutsche Bank over the past two years is not good enough, and the market is skeptical here, and rightly so. Mr. von Moltke, could you please explain to us where the savings are to come from, and what can be, which benefit can be reaped from the cost reduction program?
And does it also take the inflation in the next two years into consideration? Over the past few years, you've made strong investments into IT infrastructure and a slimming down of your processes. Mr. Leukert, how much have you advanced? And when it comes to the add-on costs for regulatory IT and infrastructure costs, have they peaked? After the IT integration of Postbank, has the legacy IT been switched off completely, and can you now fall back on the entire Deutsche Bank product portfolio? How much do you bank on AI, and how is the partnership with NVIDIA doing in this context? What does it provide for? Time and safety and cybersecurity are of utmost important for Deutsche Bank. Hacking attacks are ever increasing.
How well can you protect yourself against this, and what are the dangers that will arise in context with AI? Ladies and gentlemen, Deutsche Bank wants to increase its distribution this year, 50% of the profit, after 30% last year. So you make, made up space for that, you created space for that, and you create additional space by selling assets. You know, how much are share buybacks taken into consideration when it comes to your distribution, apart from cash? Mr. von Moltke, how much excess capital do you have for share buybacks? Now, environment, ESG. Deutsche Bank has made additional progress. The adjusted compensation system was de-complexified, so to speak. Complexity was reduced. Also, the target of the shareholding was improved, and also for the first time, the climate targets for the sectors was included, which we think it's a good thing.
Also, Deutsche Bank and its transition plan up until 2030 created transparency when it comes to scope one to three, CO2 emissions, and the decarbonization path were made more concrete. When it comes to biodiversity, you created a cooperation with ORRAA for the oceans, and you're also a member of the Taskforce on Nature Financial Disclosure Initiatives. Now, when it comes to sustainable business volumes, why are you lacking behind your plan? When it comes to variable pay, it is obvious, it's very striking, that where deductions when it comes to the progress made in any money laundering and monitoring. How much did you make progress when it comes to the regulatory requirements? When it comes to the climate stress test of ECB, are you already fulfilling all the requirements?
It is also striking that when it comes to the people survey, there was a decrease, you fell back. What is the reasons for this? Because you need your people in order to make your targets. In 2022, you established a future council that is to provide advice to the bank when it comes to geopolitical matters and others. How often did that council meet in 2023, and what was the advice that you got? Ladies and gentlemen, let's now have a look at our voting behavior. We will be voting in favor of all proposals of the administration. However, we are going to give you a promise: if you do not achieve the targets in 2025, we will not, we will not ratify the acts of the management of the Management Board.
I mean, unlike, of course, this is due to economic matters that are out of your control. Now, we wish a lot of success and energy to all members of the Supervisory Board and all employees of Deutsche Bank. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Mr. Thormählen . Thank you for your contribution and your questions. Next, we will hear Ms. Annecke from Union Investment, and after her, Mr. Nieding and Mr. Kienle. Ms. Annecke, you've got the floor. Over to you.
Thank you very much. Members of the boards, members of the Supervisory Board, shareholders, I'm Alexandra Annecke. I'm a fund manager at Union Investment. As a fund company of the Volks- und Raiffeisenbanken, we are a shareholder of Deutsche Bank, and we represent the members' interest of our 5.8 million shareholders. Ladies and gentlemen, in the past twelve months, the Deutsche Bank share had a very gratifying development of +70% for its shareholders. This is better than the European average in the banking sector at 46%, and better than the DAX, which managed to achieve a performance of 19%. Last year, Deutsche Bank continued to cut its costs and launch further measures for the more efficient use of its equity capital, and these efforts are bearing fruit.
Growing dividends and share buybacks are other measures helping the Deutsche Bank to catch up with its European peers. The bank is perceived as more profitable, more robust, more resilient, and more trustworthy in the capital markets, and this has led to a re-evaluation. The PE ratio has improved from 0.3- 0.5 in the last few months, a significant improvement. However, it is still far below other banks in the banking sector, with a PE of 1. Despite of all that has been achieved, a lot remains to be done. Mr. Sewing, you mentioned it in your speech, the processes are not all where they should be. Problems in the IT migration of Postbank were embarrassing. A bank must not leave its customer, its, its clients stand in the rain, which is what happened in the Postbank case.
Ladies and gentlemen, Deutsche Bank has proven to be in fact consolidated time and again. The problems in the IT migration of Postbank raised doubts as to whether Deutsche Bank is able to use these IT skills and abilities. The Postbank case and the special BaFin monitor are certainly not points that speak in favor of Deutsche Bank. Mr. Sewing, Numis is not going to be a success in itself. The integration will entail risks because the clients would no longer be dealing with a corporate broker, but with a big bank, and the same thing applies to the employees. It's a tightrope walk in between leveraging synergies and retaining the value of the assets. Ladies and gentlemen, as a long-term investor, we focus in particular on economic, social, and governance-related criteria, in short, ESG criteria.
We welcome Deutsche Bank's climate targets and the implementation of the self- commitments. In this respect, we are convinced that in the next few years, Deutsche Bank will make further efforts in terms of green transformation. Will have to, and will do so. We call them to be more ambitious in terms of supporting green businesses, and we hope there will be fewer loopholes in financing energy, such as fracking, which are not conducive to the environment. Let us turn to the agenda, ladies and gentlemen. Today, we will not ratify the acts of management and of the Supervisory Board. We believe that both bodies are responsible for the virtual format, which denies shareholders the right to ask questions. This reduces the value of an AGM, and this makes it impossible for shareholders to voice their views.
We have told Deutsche Bank time and again in the run-up to the AGM, that Deutsche Bank now is the only company in the DAX Index that forces its employee, its shareholders to submit questions in advance. This prevents a lively debate we consider to be essential for the board and the Supervisory Board to be able to personally comment on the questions submitted by shareholders. It is not a substitute if, in the general debate, you simply refer to the document that's been written in advance. We also will vote against the remuneration report for 2023, because in terms of share-based payment in the introduction of the pay compensation system still valid, was not sufficiently disclosed. This is to do with share-based compensation.
These virtual phantom shares grant an equivalent, and this should actually be made transparent when a compensation system is put up for the vote, because this is quite rare in Germany, unlike the U.S. The new compensation system, however, will be approved by us because it contains more ambitious targets for the board, and therefore is more strongly aligned with shareholder interests. The long-term targets are partly driven by the P/E ratio and a return on tangible equity. The bank aims to achieve a return on equity of more than 10% in its business plan for 2025. In order to fully achieve its targets in the framework of variable compensation in 2026, 11% will be required to achieve the full targets. We will also approve the other agenda items here today.
Mr. Sewing, the five levers you were mentioning in your speech today are indicators of an institute that is well-managed. This is the only way to bring Deutsche Bank forward again, and this is the only way to restore trust in the capital markets. It's not going to be a sprint, it's going to be a marathon. We thank the board, the Supervisory Board, and all employees for their hard work and commitment, and we wish you all the best, a lot of perseverance, stamina, and success. Thank you very much for your attention.
Thank you, Ms. Annecke from Union Investment. Next, Klaus Nieding from DSW, German Securities Protection Association. Mr. Nieding, the floor is all yours.
Yes, thank you, Chairman. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm Klaus Nieding. I'm a lawyer in Frankfurt am Main, and I'm speaking to you in my function as vice president of DSW, Germany's largest and leading shareholder association. Mr. Sewing, first of all, we owe you and your colleagues on the board and on the Supervisory Board, but of course, also all employees of Deutsche Bank, our thanks and our recognition for the positive results, which once again proved to be very strong. As announced, you would have thought in 2019 when you started, Mr. Sewing, as CEO, you had announced this, and you have achieved what you had announced. Now, it is becoming very clear that it made sense not to close down the investment bank altogether, unlike what some of the wise men predicted at the time being.
You have managed to get a bit of both worlds and use the best of both worlds. A decline in revenues of 18% in investment banking and asset management was offset by a plus of 27% in the corporate bank and the private bank, so this more than offset the loss. Unfortunately, we cannot tell and show you personally how much we are satisfied with what you have achieved. Once again, you are using a virtual format, shying away from contact with us. This is a format for cowards, and you are not ready to stand up to shareholders in an in-person meeting as a token of appreciation to your shareholders, where you're also ready to stand up and face up to any challenges by shareholders. And once again, what some time ago, before the COVID pandemic, you were the benchmark in Germany.
But in the meantime, this is no longer the case, in particular, so with regard to pre-submitted questions. I can't accept a situation whereby you have to submit our questions five days in advance and don't have any chance of spontaneous reactions. It is quite indicative that, and you seem to be showing clearly what your preferred format is, because you had two in-person Supervisory Board meetings and all the other meetings were held in a hybrid format, where you had an in-person meeting plus virtual meetings. You did not have one single Supervisory Board meeting, which was entirely held in a virtual format. So I'm calling upon you, please return to an in-person format, which is what many other DAX 40 companies have started to do. We also are negative when it comes to item five of the agenda, election of the auditors.
We do not understand why you should be electing EY, which were involved in the Wirecard case. As long as EY are not actively contributing to sorting out and contributing to the damages caused by Wirecard, for we at DSW are not prepared to accept election of EY as auditors. We will therefore vote no with regards to item five on your agenda. Regarding the numbers presented, we've got the following questions: In the past two years, our bank benefited strongly from the rise in interest by the ECB. Now you've got to prove that even when the ECB is lowering rates, you will still be profitable. The market environment is becoming more difficult without the interest rate doping.
Deutsche Bank saw a decline of 5% in the corporate bank in the first three months of 2024, and you were happy to compensate or overcompensate this in other areas. The planned increase in commission income will be more than difficult, in particular in asset management, there is strong competitive pressure. In general, for 2024, at least one or maybe two downward interest movements by the ECB are expected. Do you share that expectation? What will this mean for you? And the question is, are we well-prepared for that type of scenario? Will the bank be able, if interest rates were to be lowered again, to still earn money? You have said more than—you are aiming for more than 10% of, in terms of equity ratio, CET1 ratio.
However, the numbers you've presented do not confirm that. Our equity ratio is 9.4, and was 9.4 in 2022, and has fallen to 7.4 in the reporting period. The 9.4 in the previous year were only achieved thanks to a tax credit, which did not repeat in 2023. The question is: how are you going to achieve the more than 10% by 2025, in inverted commas? This is what your target says. But even if interest rates were to remain high, high, you would not be able to achieve that other than through cost cuts. The cost-income ratio, incidentally, is less than 50% in some of the peers, in some instances, even less than 40%. Against that backdrop, please comment on your current cost-income ratio.
We've seen an increase of EUR 1.3 billion in operating costs, and non-operating costs rose by more than EUR 500,000, actually. So we are far away from the cost-income ratio of 62.5% announced for 2025. A lot remains to be done, and even this 62.5% does not seem to be very ambitious in an international comparison. Commerzbank, for example, achieved 61% in 2023. In this context, one of the biggest cost factors are personal costs. Personnel costs, as always, so may it be, this puts the comparison with Commerzbank in relative terms because they don't have such a strong investment business as we have. We've seen an increase of more than 5,000 jobs.
How are you going to ensure that we will still be attractive for new talents in the future, in the light of a lack of highly professional staff in Germany? Or do you think this is not going to happen, unlike in other parts of German economy? And please tell us, how many employees are expected to retire in the next ten years? How are you going to compensate for the retirees? A large number of branches have been closed down. Savings banks are doing quite the opposite. They are planning to retain their branches and even open up new branches, according to current media news. This seems to be going down well with clients.
And a negative example is Postbank, very often mentioned in this context, because it is said by the media that people would want to have a person to talk to and to provide them with advice. So are we on the wrong track? In particular, Postbank would be well advised, in particular, to return to personal, inter-human advice, because IT, as we all know, is one of the biggest construction sites in Postbank. So leaving, to put it very bluntly, reliability is the biggest asset in banking, I don't have to tell you. You and your colleagues, therefore, have done, have paid bad service, have done a very bad service to the bank with this Postbank migration.
The special monitor from BaFin was extended until the thirtieth of October of this year, after insufficient transaction monitoring took place, and the Fed in the U.S. imposed a fine of $183 million against Deutsche Bank. In the U.S., insufficient anti-money laundering activities were complained about, so it... The bank still does not seem to have established a good system of transaction monitoring. What progress has been achieved? What progress has been achieved in terms of risk analysis? And this would then enable you not to repeat what happened with regard to, for example, Danske Bank. The bank has to tell us more about the timing in this regard. Have you already set aside any provisions? Next, Cum-Ex, Cum-C um.
Here in this context, I'd like to know whether we have submitted any data to BaFin for 2017, 2020, and 2022. If so, what are the expected tax payments due? What is the probability of us having to retroactively pay any taxes? If so, do we have to set up any provisions? Next, Epstein. There's been a settlement. Deutsche Bank has paid EUR 75 million in this context. Does this cover all cases of litigation in this context? Next, Russia. Here, I'd like to know what the current state of play is. You are saying that you don't onboard any new clients in Russia. You're reducing activities in Russia. When exactly are you going to close down Russia entirely? Is there any risk of us violating any sanctions? Are there any processes to prevent sanctions violations?
What is our exposure in connection with existing Russia business? By way of conclusion, once again, thank you to all employees, including the board and the Supervisory Board. We wish you all the best for the new financial year. We hope you will be able to achieve positive results once again. Thank you very much for your attention, and I think I've managed to stick to the timeline. Thank you.
Yes, thank you, Mr. Nieding. Yes, that exactly what happened. You've stuck to the timeline. Thank you for your contribution. The next speaker will be Markus Kienle from SDK, [Foreign language] . Mr. Kienle, the floor is all yours.
Thank you very much, Mr. Winkeljohann and Mr. Sewing, members of the management, dear shareholders. My name is Markus Kienle. I'm a lawyer in Frankfurt am Main, and also a member on the board of our shareholders association. Mr. Sewing, did you deliver? Of course, you did. In the past fiscal year, you and your colleagues, however, showed somewhat a mixed picture, which also showed in return on tangible equity of less than 8%, which means that the target you had communicated in 2022 was missed in 2023. And here, of course, it does not help if, in answering my respective question, you just answered that you had not announced any specific ROTE target for 2023. Well, do you think that we shareholders are dumb and stupid?
Now, as your target for ROTE in 2022 must at least be the minimum for the subsequent years. And again, the numbers that you achieved was only due to a EUR 1 billion positive tax effect. Now, you will certainly understand that here we have to be skeptical about your ability to implement your strategy. If in a fiscal year, where throughout the year you had the tailwind from the interest rate turnaround, you did not even achieve your ROTE target, which in the previous year, where you didn't have the positive interest rate effect, when you had already exceeded that target ROTE, although thanks to a positive tax effect. But I will come back to these figures again later.
Now, first of all, I would like to thank all of the employees for the great achievement in the past fiscal year, and kindly ask them to pass on this gratitude of the shareholders to the workforce. Now, it's not this mixed overall picture which is why we do not want to approve your acts of the board of management. The virtual format of the AGM is the reason for our denial of the approval of the acts of management. Last year, we already pointed out very clearly that we accept the virtual format only if it is absolutely inevitable due to the circumstances. I do not, once again, want to counter the arguments in favor of a virtual AGM, because I did so last year. However, your reasoning, namely, the virtual AGM has proven its worth, is not supported by your own experience.
Now, my respective question was answered by you, namely saying that last year, only two shareholders last year used their right to ask questions. Now, that's not really a success model, is it? Back to the figures. Now, the interest-based revenues were increased by almost 82% year-over-year, but nothing really of this increase reached the profits, and this in spite of a positive tax effect of EUR 1 billion. Now, that overall picture is becoming even more worrying if the non-interest revenues increased by 13%. So the interest rate profit slightly decreased, which means the overall revenues increased by only 6%. Now, by what amount did the tax to be paid changed in the year 2023? Now, the corporate bank developed positively year-over-year.
Not only did it see a revenue increase, but also an ROTE of more than 6%, which was higher than cost of capital. Asset management did not as good as last year, but it still earned its cost of capital. Now, quite in contrast, the situation in the investment bank. In addition to fluctuating revenues in the years 2021-2023, this segment never earned its cost of capital, not even in 2022. The personnel costs rather increased every year, and the profit after tax of EUR 8 billion as of full consolidation resulted in a very high multiple that you paid for the acquisition of Numis. Now, will Numis, by itself, cover the cost of capital in the investment bank?
Now, is the basis for the cost of capital to be earned by Numis, are the historical cost or historical value or the written off goodwill? Now, regarding the investment bank, you said that on a comparable basis to your competitors, you are satisfied with your personnel costs, and then you also invested in hiring additional managers. However, since 2021, the cost-income ratio of the investment bank has deteriorated continuously. Now, what do you think is a comparable basis to your peers? How did you identify them? As of when will the investments in executives pay off, to what extent? Now, at least you said that the figures for the first quarter of this year in the investment bank look good, and at least on a quarterly basis, the investment bank earned more than its cost of capital. That is gratifying.
The private bank, of course, had a lot of bad fortune. However, the problems in this segment are homemade. In spite of increasing revenue since 2021, this increase did not translate into increasing profits because there was always one special items, be it the problems with the Postbank integration, be it be the contracts of the past. Now, regarding the takeover Postbank hitting you back again. Although no ruling has been published yet, it seems that the legal development of this battle seems so threatening that Deutsche Bank now felt obliged to recognize provisions of EUR 1.3 billion.
Now, although I do hope that setup and takeover of Postbank turns out not to have been a fraud, I cannot accept your denial to let us know who the legal advisors were, and whether you are still in a position to take recourse to such lawyers. And so I cannot understand why you rate this information so confidential, especially when I'm asking about potential damage claims. So once again, let me once again ask you, do you still have the possibility to file claims against such legal advisors? And have you made sure that they cannot be subject to termination? Now, we are going to act as follows regarding the ratification of the acts of management of the Supervisory Board. Now, Ms.
Laumann did not participate in any meeting of the TIC meeting, and we would like to point out that the Supervisory Board is not something like a waiting room at the train station where you can come and go and leave as you just like. This also applies to the employee representatives. If they do not want to participate in the meetings of the Supervisory Board, they should not become a member. Participating in a Supervisory Board members is not subject to the free will of the Supervisory Board members. The only thing they can really decide on themselves is whether they accept the election to the Supervisory Board or not. All the rest is mandatory. It is not acceptable that in the Supervisory Board report, Mr. Wynaendts , you do not disclose why Ms.
Laumann did not participate in any of the meetings, and why she left again that Supervisory Board so quickly. Mr. Wynaendts , you received EUR 900,000 of a compensation in the year 2023 for your work as a chairman, but you do not provide information in that regard. I leave it up to the management to provide more details. This might then change also our voting behavior. The compensation system, we especially praise the reduction of the complexity regarding the number of, of details and the future-oriented compensation identification base. However, the increase of the variable compensation to 40% in the short, short term is rejected. We only accept a 30% share for the short-term bonus. We also are critical in regarding the total shareholder component and its design.
Due to the slow progress in the compliance and anti-money laundering prevention matters, and also due to the fact that BaFin still has special auditors at Deutsche Bank for that purpose, Mr. Wynaendts and Mr. Winkeljohann , the compensation model should establish a basic hurdle for the earning of a variable compensation. Which means that variable compensation is only paid for and in the year in which the BaFin auditors have left Deutsche Bank again, because we don't want to prevent these BaFin representatives to view Deutsche Bank as their new home office. Now, how many enforcement actions were still open in late 2023? You refused to answer this question directly, so I once again go back to your statement saying that in late 2023, about 150 such enforcement actions were still pending.
Now, these 150 enforcement actions, are these all really so-called enforcement actions, or are the supervisory actions the same as enforcement actions? And how do you arrive at this number? Your proposal on the share buyback of own shares will not be approved by us as long as we do not obtain an appropriate dividend, which should be in the range of 40%-60%. That's why we reject such a share buyback, unless you just withdraw them to, and redeem them to reduce the capital base, which would then increase the return on equity. Now, one basic shortcoming is the ongoing appointment of EY as the auditor.
In spite of all of the difficulties, and taking into account the lack of, and the problem of the cooling off period, we still expect you not to fully utilize the 10-year period for the appointment of EY. Mr. Sewing, yes, you and your team have achieved quite a lot and taken the bank back into the profit zone, but the progress is not large and not quick enough. Whether the turnaround really has been achieved can be told only when you earn your cost of capital again on an adjusted basis. We wish you and your team all the best and a lot of courage, because you need to be courageous in order to be successful. Be also courageous in returning to an in-person AGM again, and with that, I'd like to thank you for your kind attention.
Well, thank you very much, Mr. Kienle, for your contribution and for your questions. Before we now turn the floor over to the Management Board to comment on some of the topics that were also the focus of the questions that submitted in advance. Now, before that, I would like to tell you who our speakers in the second block will be. Now, these are the following: Mr. Tilman Massa , Ms. Kathrin Petz, Ms. Inas Nureldin, Matthias Gäbler, and Jörg Ulrich Gebel. So these five speakers will in a minute see the pop-up on their screens, and they will then be admitted to the waiting room.
Now, however, I'd like to ask the Management Board members to comment on some topics which are relevant for a wider circle of our shareholders, and that means all those who have not familiarized themselves with all of the question and answers published on the internet. They will be given the chance to hear the position of the bank on these matters. The first one to go is Mr. Christian Sewing, who will talk about the strategy of the bank, and then James von Moltke and Stefan Simon will then continue. Christian, the floor is yours.
Thank you very much, and also many thanks to all of the shareholders who submitted their questions in advance. The topic of strategy was one of the focal points of those questions, and I would like to address this now.
As mentioned in my speech, Deutsche Bank's strategy and financial plans up to 2025 are geared towards positioning the bank as a Global Hausbank. The core of our strategy is to be the first point of contact for our customers in all financial matters. We are committed to building trusting long-term relationships with our clients, and we want to support them in managing technological change, macro and geopolitical uncertainties, and the transition to a sustainable economy. Our four client-focused business divisions, our comprehensive product range, our deep capital market expertise, and our extensive global network enable us to provide targeted solutions to the structural challenges our clients are facing. Our annual results for 2023 underline the strength of our strategy as a Global Hausbank. In the 2023 fiscal year, we achieved the highest pre-tax profit in 16 years.
We grew faster than planned, and in spite of important investments, we maintained our focus on cost discipline. At the same time, we have built up considerable amount of capital, and this puts us in a position to accelerate the capital distributions to our shareholders. All of this makes us very confident that we will achieve our targets for 2025. In 2023, Deutsche Bank accelerated the implementation of its strategy and made further progress in all areas. We have raised the target for the average annual earnings growth in the period from 2021- 2025 to between 5.5%-6.5%, and for the year 2025, are aiming for earnings of around EUR 32 billion. To this end, we have made investments in order to drive growth in capital-efficient business areas.
This applies above all to the corporate bank, the origination and advisory business in the investment bank, and the wealth management business in the private bank. Second, in 2023, Deutsche Bank made further progress in implementing its operational efficiency program, which aims to achieve savings of EUR 2.5 billion. At the end of 2023, the savings achieved and expected from completed efficiency measures amounted to a total of EUR 1.3 billion, and the focus remains on cost discipline. We are aiming for EUR 5 billion in adjusted costs per quarter and around EUR 20 billion in total costs in the 2025 fiscal year. The bank's capital efficiency program contributed to a gross reduction in risk-weighted assets of EUR 13 billion by the end of last year.
This means that around half of the target of reducing risk-weighted assets by EUR 25billion-EUR 30 billion by 2025 has been achieved. Capital distributions to our shareholders, as I emphasized in my speech, are and remain an essential part of our strategy. James will come back to this in more detail in just a moment. Ladies and gentlemen, a key component of Deutsche Bank's success is our balanced business mix, which allows us to grow sustainably and support our clients in the best possible way. The corporate bank, with its extensive global network, is part and parcel of our offering. This division made further progress in implementing strategic initiatives in 2023, benefiting from rising interest rates and a high level of price discipline. The division continues to invest in fee-generating payment platforms and strengthened customer support with additional advisors.
In addition, the expansion of the commission business with institutional clients and a stronger focus on cross-divisional client offerings are planned. The corporate bank is also accelerating the development of new business areas with future earnings potential, such as products for the custody of digital assets and trading solutions. Our investment bank is also a central pillar of Deutsche Bank, offering a wide range of services and supporting corporate and institutional clients on the financial markets. Thanks in part to investments in selective hiring of managers in the origination and advisory business, this division is well-positioned to grow and benefit greatly from the expected increase in market activity. In line with this strategy, the Numis acquisition and integration has created Deutsche Numis, with a leading position as an advisory house, corporate broker, and equity underwriter in the U.K.
In the area of fixed income securities and currencies, the so-called FIC business, investments in existing and adjacent business areas in which the division has got a competitive edge will be continued. Here, we're building on the strategic development since 2019. As a result, the aforementioned measures should lead to a further diversification of our earnings base and, at the same time, ensure an optimized range of products and services for our customers. With more than 20 million clients and a broad range of financial services in 19 countries, our private bank makes a significant contribution to Deutsche Bank's global business activities. With assets under management of EUR 559 billion at the end of 2023, which by the way, is an increase of 8% compared to the previous year, the private bank has a strong foundation for future growth.
We are focusing on the expansion of digital channels and a transition to internal portfolio solutions. We're also continuing to focus on products with recurring commission income, particularly in the wealth management and private banking client segment, supported by growth in the Lombard business. Our asset management division, which mainly consists of the majority stake in DWS, also has a strong basis for increasing earnings with assets under management of EUR 896 billion at the end of 2023. Here, we are focusing on growth through product innovation and regional expansion in the passive products business and expect business to pick up in the area of alternative investments. In view of the constantly changing market environment and the higher interest rates, we will continue to focus on fixed income securities and institutional investors.
In the multi-asset area, we are pursuing the goal of further strengthening our solutions expertise. In all our business areas, we place a strong focus on environmental, social, and governance issues, ESG. Our aim is to support our clients worldwide in their transformation towards a sustainable economy and to play a leading role in this transformation. I would now like to hand over to James von Moltke, who will first address the topic of dividends and share buybacks and then talk about the development of our share price.
Thanks, Christian. First, on the subject of distribution. Since the start of the transformation in July 2019, Deutsche Bank has significantly improved its profitability and plans to achieve a post-tax return on tangible equity of over 10% in the 2025 fiscal year.
This higher, more sustainable profitability will allow the bank to make distributions to its shareholders and gradually increase them. As demonstrated in recent years, Deutsche Bank intends to allow its shareholders to participate more strongly in its profits as a result of the successful transformation. For the fiscal years 2021 - 2025, it has set itself the target of returning a total of EUR 8 billion in capital to shareholders, which will be paid out in the years 2022 - 2026. The bank believes it is well positioned to exceed this target by achieving its financial targets. This is supported by the increase in the capital outlook by around EUR 3 billion, announced with the results for the third quarter.
As outlined in the 2023 annual report on page 47, Deutsche Bank plans to sustainably increase cash dividends and distribute excess capital to shareholders over time through share buybacks. This capital is in excess of the level required to support profitable growth and upcoming regulatory changes. Last year, the bank paid a dividend of EUR 0.30 per share for the 2022 financial year. Together with a share buyback program of EUR 450 million, a total of over EUR 1 billion was thus distributed to Deutsche Bank shareholders for the 2022 financial year. This corresponds to an increase of 50% compared to the previous year. For the 2023 financial year, the Management Board has proposed a dividend of EUR 0.45 per share, and thus a total of around EUR 900 million.
In addition, the bank has received regulatory approval for a share buyback of EUR 675 million, which began on March 4th and expected to be largely completed in the first half of 2024. Deutsche Bank will thus distribute a total of around EUR 1.6 billion to its shareholders for the 2023 financial year. This corresponds to an increase of 50% in both the dividend per share and the share buyback volume compared to the previous year. Including the distributions for the 2021 and 2022 financial years, the bank will thus pay around EUR 3.3 billion to its shareholders. For the 2024 financial year and the subsequent years, Deutsche Bank is aiming for ordinary distributions amounting to 50% of the post-tax profit attributable to Deutsche Bank shareholders.
These distributions are to be achieved through a combination of cash dividends and share buybacks. The bank is aiming to pay a cash dividend of EUR 0.68 per share for the 2024 financial year and a cash dividend of EUR 1 per share for the 2025 financial year, subject to a cap on the payout ratio of 50%. In spite of the announcement of April 26th, 2024, that a provision for legal disputes in connection with the Postbank takeover of EUR 1.3 billion will be recognized in the second quarter of 2024, the aforementioned capital distribution ambitions remain unchanged. However, a further share buyback program in the second half of 2024 has become less likely at this point in time.
The final decision on when and to what extent the bank will buy back its own shares in future will be made in due course. It should be noted that share buybacks must be approved by the supervisory authorities, and the shareholders make the final decision on the amount of dividends. In addition, the bank must also take into account the requirements of the German Stock Corporation Act when making such distributions. An overview of previous share buyback programs can be found on the Deutsche Bank website under the Investors tab. This brings me to our share price. Since the annual general meeting in May 2023, Deutsche Bank's share price has risen from around EUR 9.7 to almost EUR 15.9.
This means that Deutsche Bank's share price has outperformed the European STOXX 600 Banks index by around 30 percentage points in this period, which is in particular due to the performance of the past six months. While the share performance of European banks in the summer of 2023 was still characterized by the uncertainty in the financial sector in the first quarter of 2023, Deutsche Bank's share price was increasingly based on the bank's fundamentals again from autumn 2023. Improved macroeconomic data and lower inflation expectations, as well as the improved outlook for Deutsche Bank's capital, which the bank presented with its results for the third quarter of 2023, contributed to the rising share price from the end of October.
The upward movement was also reinforced by the positive outlook for the financial data for the fiscal years 2024 and 2025, which Deutsche Bank announced with its results for the financial year 2023. Concerns about the development of the U.S. commercial real estate market weighed on our share price at the beginning of February, but this was only short-lived. Christian Sewing's confirmation of the positive outlook for the first quarter of 2024 and the coming financial years at a specialist conference in mid-March helped our share price to rise again. A further boost from good financial results in the first quarter of 2024 and the confirmation of the outlook for the 2024 and 2025 financial years was offset by the announcement that a provision would be recognized for the legal dispute regarding the Postbank takeover.
In the days that followed, however, the share price continues its upward trend since the beginning of the year. As presented at the Investor Day in March 2022, Deutsche Bank aims to become even more profitable and achieve a post-tax return on tangible equity of at least 10% by 2025. The bank remains well on track to achieve this target, and the Management Board is convinced that the share price will benefit from this. Deutsche Bank does not expect the provision for the Postbank takeover litigation to have a significant impact on Deutsche Bank's strategic plans or financial targets. Deutsche Bank's current market capitalization is at approximately 0.5 times its total book value, compared to a value of approximately 0.3 at the time of last year's AGM.
However, Deutsche Bank believes that the current ratio between market capitalization and book value offers further upside potential, especially if the bank can increase its profitability as planned. The continuous positive development of the operating business continues to be recognized on the capital market. For example, the rating agencies, S&P, Fitch, and Morningstar DBRS, have once again raised Deutsche Bank's credit ratings in 2023. Stefan Simon will now comment on the developments in the proceedings surrounding the Postbank takeover.
Thank you, James. Ladies and gentlemen, I now would like to report about the current status around the civil cases around the acquisition of Postbank in the period 2008 - 2010. In the so-called Postbank complex, 384 plaintiffs are suing in 46 different civil cases with different courts. About 90% of the plaintiffs are international hedge funds and other institutional investors. The plaintiffs had Postbank shares, and these were offered in the course of the voluntary acquisition offer of Deutsche Bank from October 2010 at a price of EUR 25 per share. The plaintiffs want to be put in a position as if they had already sold the shares two years earlier, a few days before the Lehman bankruptcy in 2008, and thus at a significantly higher price.
The claim that Deutsche Bank already had actual control of Postbank in 2008, which means that the offered price for the acquisition in the context of the voluntary offer 2010, would have had to be at least EUR 57.25 per share. Some plaintiffs even claim a price of EUR 64.25 per share. The total amount of the case is amounting to EUR 662 million at present, including the interests accumulated until March 2024. The total risk of the claims as of the end of the first quarter 2024 amounts to around EUR 1.3 billion.
In the course of the years, the Higher Court in Cologne had decided several times in favor of Deutsche Bank, first in the year 2012, and then again in December 2020, after a comprehensive discovery period and after hearing numerous witnesses and after analyzing the contractual agreements. In December 2022, the Federal Court of Justice again referred the case back to the Higher Court in Cologne and specified that further legal and factual aspects had to be taken into account.
Deutsche Bank had asked two law firms to check the decision by the Federal Court of Justice from December 2022, as Deutsche Bank always assumed on the basis of this and earlier reviews, internal and external reviews, until the 26th of April 2024, assumed that it would win the litigation with a high likelihood, no provisions could be made based on the accounting principles. The remaining risk had to be reported as a contingent liability, and this has always been done. In the oral hearing on the 26th of April 2024, the Higher Court in Cologne again has reviewed two cases of two former Postbank shareholders, and the Higher Court in Cologne then gave a preliminary assessment of the factual and legal situation following the Federal Court judgment.
Then the court indicated that it now might follow the plaintiffs' arguments in some important points, increasing the risk that the plaintiffs might be granted their claims in this decision, in the decision by the Higher Court of Justice in Cologne. Against this background, our internal and external lawyers now came to the assessment that there is a probability of around 50% to lose litigation, and this is why Deutsche Bank in April 2024 had to make a provision of EUR 1.3 billion. In alignment with the valid ad hoc regulations, Deutsche Bank then informed the capital markets on the 26th of April, 2024. The previous contingent liabilities were reduced by the same amount of the provision. Deutsche Bank had not expected such a changed assessment of the legal and factual situation by the court in Cologne.
We are still of the opinion that Deutsche Bank, in the year 2008, and thus before the share purchase agreement became applicable, and also before the antitrust authorities approved this transaction, did not have any control over Postbank. After the higher court in Cologne, in the order hearing on the 26th of April, recommended settlement discussions, the Deutsche Bank again started talking to the plaintiffs. It is our goal to really find an appropriate solution to the benefit of the bank and our shareholders. At the same time, we want to use the opportunity that was opened up by the bank to again submit our legal and factual arguments. The final outcome of all the proceedings in this complex is still open. However, as we now have built the provisions, this risk is covered in the balance sheet.
This, however, is not true for the accumulating interests amounts, which currently are approximately EUR 65 million per annum. Ladies and gentlemen, after this short overview of the Postbank complex, I would like to hand back to Norbert Winkeljohann.
Well, thank you very much to Christian Sewing, James von Moltke, and Stefan Simon. I can now see that we have already the first speakers of the second block of questions in the waiting room. As the first speaker, I would like to welcome Tilman Massa from the Association of Critical Shareholders, then Ms. Petz and Mrs. Nordin. You have the floor, Mr. Massa.
Thank you very much, Mr. Winkeljohann, ladies and gentlemen, dear members of the Supervisory Board and the Management Board. Well, I do have some technical problems. I hope you can hear me properly.
Yes, we can hear you. Thank you.
Great. Thank you. Well, yes, I am representing the Association of Critical Shareholders, and we want Deutsche Bank to take more measures to protect the climate and to have sustainability. And we also submitted a counterproposal, which I would like to submit formally here. But I also would like to share the criticism regarding the virtual form of the AGM today. We think it's good if it's optional to take part virtually, but it would also be necessary to ask questions to Mr. Sewing spontaneously, because this would not be in the sense of an AGM if you are only allowed to ask follow-up questions on what you had asked before. So for next year, we really would like to ask you to make questions possible.
And you also see that you do not really manage to do this, because Mr. Nieding and Mr. Nieding have already asked questions that go beyond the questions. Yes, I know this is what the Stock Corporation Act says, but you nevertheless can be tolerant, and you could, should make it possible to have a real dialogue. And we really want to have an AGM in presence or a hybrid meeting next year. But thank you very much for answering the previously submitted questions, but I also have some follow-up questions. And we... Well, if you read the answers, new questions arise, and we now would like to use the opportunity to ask these questions, especially regarding points on financing that we had already asked to you.
So let me start with the first question: How can we, as shareholders or the public, ever be in a position to check whether you really deliver on your high promises regarding sustainability and climate protection? Because we would need binding rules for the financial sectors as well regarding sustainability. We would need minimum standards that would be implemented in a transparent manner. And in your answer, you simply say, and this is question 149, that you would welcome binding and reliable rules, but then you say this is taking a lot of effort, it binds many resources. What are you talking about exactly? And could you tell us in amounts what this means, especially compared to your previous costs for ESG and sustainability? Because new obligations, yes, of course, this is always a lot because previously you didn't have to do anything.
There were no legal regulations on this. But now you also seem to point to your voluntary measures, and you say that this is okay. You mentioned the UN Compact, the Global Banking Alliance. But then let me ask, I didn't see the answer: If you really want to have or welcome reliable and binding regulations in this area, would you also welcome this in your business with large clients? Because this doesn't really seem to be the case right now. And yes, again, you have a problem with transparency. And now the speaker, unfortunately, is no longer online. We cannot hear him any longer. Mr. Norbert Winkeljohann is saying that at present, there are problems with the transmission. There seems to be a problem with the microphone. So you gave loans, and these were not in line with your ESG criteria.
Well, yes, we did receive some data, and you also mentioned regarding your investments, that it's not possible to specify the volumes in detail, but let me ask a question on this: Could you at least give a ballpark figure regarding your loans to Bunge, Cargill, and so on and so forth, as mentioned in the study by Greenpeace and the German Umwelthilfe, or are they completely different? Because we would like to use the right figures. But now also, back to your Cargill investments. You already said that there are... Well, we also told you that there are massive complaints, and especially in the area of the criteria that you would like to use for your investments. And here, I would like to ask a question regarding the project in Abaetetuba in Brazil, of Cargill, where there are massive infringements of the public rights.
Will you, as the investment company active in Cargill, will you make sure that the company immediately, fully respects and guarantees the territorial powers? Yes, this is again my question number 167, but I know that you are not always very transparent, so let me put it in different terms. For your major customers, for your large customers, would you really check on the basis of your own regulations, that the approval by the communities was really given? And what is happening if you find later on that such an approval had not been given? And to just expect that it is done by the companies is negligent. Even the courts have said that these rights are not always maintained by the mining companies, and I would like to come back to the AGM.
As I mentioned earlier on, you also say you have a virtual meeting because you also want to make it possible for international shareholders to take part, but why isn't it possible to speak in English here? On other AGMs, it is possible, Siemens, Bayer, Mr. Norbert Winkeljohann, you should know best, and you are offering simultaneous translation into English. So here again, you say you are not really making good on your own arguments, so please explain why it's not possible to speak English here. And could you perhaps also review this for next year again? Because this should not be a major technical challenge, because you already make translation available. And we'll also hear other questions on the climate area, so I will keep it brief.
I would like to thank you for your attention, and we will follow, of course, your answers to our follow-up questions.
Thank you very much, Mr. Massa. As the next speaker, we have Mrs. Kathrin Petz, also from the same Association of Critical Shareholders, followed by Inas Nureldin , and by Mr. Gäbler. Ms. Petz, you have the floor.
Yes, thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Katrin Petz, and I'm representing the Urgewald Human Rights Organization , which is also a member of the Association of Critical Shareholders. I would like to now talk about what you said on fossil industries, but now I would like to make a general comment first. We have been observing the fossil industry very closely, and we can see that climate goals and the issues of climate have been ignored.
In order to achieve the Paris goals, no fossil energy resources should be used or researched on in the future. But what does the major part of the industry do? They invest billions into the exploration of new fossil fuels, and as long as a company still expands, the company can be as good as it will in other areas, it will still infringe the Paris climate goals, and this cannot be denied. A climate transition is only possible if you immediately stop the expansion in the fossil industry. So this was my first general comment, but now let's come to the questions. Regarding sustainable financing and ESG investments, what are the concrete criteria that you use for sustainable investments? Can you also use CO2 certificates? Can a company get financing that is seen as sustainability, as sustainable, even if it expands in the fossil energy area?
So for example, loan for a wind farm by BP, and you say that by 2026, at least 90% of your customers with high emission, from high-emission industries, will have to go for a self-commitment. What are the criteria that you have here? Do you expect intermediate results? Are there any specifications on global... on CO2 emissions, or can you also reach net zero via netting? And you also say that you want to have a close contact with your customers, and if the customers do not follow your expectations, you might also cut this. Do you have now any plans to cut your links to some of the companies if the company does not really transform? And you also say that an exit of a client-...
relationship will only happen if the customer does not show any credibility in the getting out of this. And from my, from our point of view, the entire fossil industry does not show this willingness. Could you then specify what no willingness means in your definition? You say that regarding Scope 3 financed emissions, coal and gas is still volatile. Can you explain this? Why do you think this volatility exists? And in the answers to our questions, you mainly focused on the credit loan business, but a large part of the financing is based on bonds nowadays. And do you have the same reduction goals for these as for the credit loan business? And my last questions: you, some companies can also base their plans on the plans of their companies.
Do you also have some criteria there, or can these be general company financing? If so, how does such a financing help reduce the strong dependence on fossil fuels? Ladies and gentlemen, you always say that the, that we need an acceleration towards a sustainable economy, but still you finance a lot of industries which expand in a non-sustainable manner. This doesn't fit together. Thank you very much for your attention.
Thank you very much, Ms. Petz. The next speaker is Inas Nureldin, followed by Matthias Gäbler and Jörg Ulrich Geibel. I'm sorry, Mr. Inas Nureldin. The floor is all yours, sir.
Thank you, and good afternoon, everybody. My name is Inas Nureldin, and my question refers to the ShareAction question, which was sent in previously on the capital markets and the emissions that Deutsche Bank unfortunately has not made part and parcel of its climate of its reporting and climate goals. Thank you very much for the written answers that we received. But still, Deutsche Bank is not giving us any concrete information on when the effects of its capital markets activities will be included in its goals and in its reporting. The report of Banking on Climate Chaos that was published last week, referring to the increase of the overall financing of fossil fuels by Deutsche Bank of $10 billion in 2022 to $13.4 billion in 2023, shows how urgent our questions really are.
These questions include the extension of loans, the financing of bonds via capital markets, by Deutsche Bank. Other European banks have already been reporting this, already reporting this, and take their capital market activities into consideration when reporting and when defining their goals. When will Deutsche Bank be catching up on that? And will the, emissions caused by that be included by 100% in order to really take account to the full climate effect of those? Thank you.
Interpreters cannot hear Mr. Winkeljohann. Thank you very much, Mr. Nureldin. In our second block, we have two speakers, Matthias Gäbler and Jörg Ulrich Geibel. Mr. Gäbler, the floor is all yours.
Thank you very much, Mr. Winkeljohann. Please excuse me, but I dress according to my mood, and the answers to my questions that I sent in was fairly meager, and I wanted to give expression to this by my choice of dress. So, let's have a look at the share price development. This was great in the last 12 months for Deutsche Bank, from EUR 10-EUR 16. But specifically, we still have a lot of catching up to do. Sixteen years ago, 2008, share price was EUR 60. In 2007, it was even higher than EUR 90. So this is still a long way to Tipperary. And my question is: prices like these, will we ever see them again during your term of office? I'd love to see that.
So now on share price development, please give us three reasons why one would stay shareholder of Deutsche Bank or even buy shares at the current share price level. I mean, if you want to tell me that Management Boards gives no recommendation to buy shares, you know, it's not an answer. So how many shareholders have been dialed in in the shareholder portal, and how many from abroad, non-German-speaking countries? I think the... If I look at this, I have the impression that hardly anyone dialing in from abroad, which is the reason that you give for virtual AGM. And then why don't you provide more opportunities in the framework of a virtual AGM to make this more interesting?
For example, we have no chat rooms to exchange ideas or opinions with other shareholders, or something like thumbs up, thumbs down, or applause during the presentation of the Management Board, as we know from WhatsApp or other video conferences. This could be introduced without this causing too many more costs, I reckon. Also, for example, you could also, other shareholders could contact others, for example, by email, if they like their contribution, or they can send all types of applause or something like that. So that would be a nice feature to have. So, an extension of the virtual AGM would be a good thing. Mr. Sewing, isn't it slightly schizophrenic? Deutsche Bank carries risks in billions in its main business, but when it comes to the AGM, you don't want to take any risks at all.
So I'd like this to be understood as a wake-up call, not only to do what is the bare minimum when it comes to legal provisions, but go above and beyond it. And then also the question: how, what does the future bring? Do you want to go back to a in-person AGM? Don't tell me that you will be discussing this in your various boards. You've had time to do this. Please let us know what you decide. There are pros and cons for both formats, you know, but we want to have a clear statement. You know, you perhaps you... You might you could say we have, next year will still be virtual, then we have in-person, or you, next two years will be virtual, then we'll be in person, you know.
I want to get a clear answer, a clear statement from you to that effect now. Now, on add-on questions to the questions I sent in before the AGM, I mean, Mr. Sewing, Mr. Winkeljohann , listen, listen, I'm really angry. There were questions. You had time to prepare them, and those questions were either not answered at all or not sufficiently. I'll give you a very trivial example. I asked, for example, how many questions of how many shareholders did you get on time? And your answer was 291 previously sent in question. Okay, but by how many shareholders? Why didn't you give us that? I mean, I mean, okay, it might be a point of contention as to whether this is part of the agenda or not, but you can give a very simple answer to that.
And I don't know why you receive the questions from us in as a text file, but what you give us is a PDF file, which does not allow you to copy anything out, you know? And I mean, in the internet, there are super tools where you can remove, for example, the blocking of a PDF format. This goes beautifully well, works in 10 seconds, so why do you do this? You know, why do you have this a protected PDF? Then also, EUR 36,000 you say, was the cost for the catering of virtual AGM, and everyone ask yourself: Why do you have catering costs in a virtual AGM? There are no shareholders. But yeah, but there's a back office providers on site, but if it's...
I don't know, how many people are we talking about? 150 people, EUR 36,000. Well, what do you serve them? Champagne, salmon, oysters? I mean, I had another AGM where the Management Board said, "We our catering costs were below EUR 1,000. We just served them some dry rolls," you know. So, but then that's a side question. And what are the questions that are generated by the BaFin supervision in the context of the Postbank case? Your answer to that was that there was a separate administrative act of BaFin, and it is in this framework that you pay the normal remuneration, the normal fees. This is not an answer to my question. You know, it's a, it's usual, the usual customary compensation. What does this mean?
This means that BaFin is a constant guest in your house, you know, and you know what they usually charge you, right? But if this is the case, you can give it to us. You know, I'm asking for the cost. I'm not biting your head off, no, but I'm asking for the costs. Are we talking about EUR 1,000? Are we talking EUR 10,000, EUR 100,000, EUR 1 million, you know? And I'm really angry because my questions were very simple, you know, and inviting simple answers, and you were just evading them. You know, I'm asking again, how many private clients and corporate clients were terminated by you in the year 2023? And you say, under the general terms and conditions, we don't have to give you an answer to this.
Yeah, but this was not my question, you know? I also asked some personal questions, you know, and Mr. Sewing, I wrote to you personally, and I'm fully aware that you don't read this, you know, I'm fully aware of that. But my question, 34-45, were not answered at all. You said that, "Please get in contact with customer service after the AGM in order to clarify my questions." This is exactly what I'm not going to do. I mean, I'm pretty frustrated that in five months' time, I was not able to open a business account at Postbank, not because of problems with my credit worthiness. I always in the black, and I'm always in the good. I'm really annoyed as a shareholder of Deutsche Bank, how inefficiently you're treating your clients, you know?
For example, I'm being sent an email that an advisor was to contact me soon. I got this in June of last year. Since then, no one ever contacted me. So the left hand doesn't know what the right hand does. When it comes to customer service, you are in your hotline, you're hanging around in your hotline for 30 minutes, and Mr. Sewing, you know, if you call the customer hotline at Postbank, you get a different piece of advice and information every day, you know? So I'm turning it around. So why don't you go into my case? Why don't you do that? Why don't you take the initiative proactively? Not because you want to please me, I couldn't care less, you know, but because of you learning.
And I'm also-- I'm really annoyed as a shareholder because we could earn much more money if such inefficient processes will finally be done away with. And another question was, when it comes to the providers that helped you with the technical changeover at Postbank, and you answered that everyone did their job. Well, yes, that might be correct answers, but if all the service providers had done their job, how is it then that we had this nightmare? So I would be very grateful if you would give us an answer on that, because, you know, I received the Finanztest Heft, and there is this beautiful headline, annoyance with Postbank. Are you... Do you have trouble with Postbank? How can you defend yourself? This is not good promotion. This is not marketing for Postbank, you know.
Things like these have to be avoided. And then also, you have not remediated everything, so a lot has to be, a lot more has to be done. I also asked you about the original planned costs for the system changeover at Postbank, what the actual costs were, and what the overall damage is, as of now. You just, as an answer to this, you gave us a savings effect. I didn't ask for the savings effects, you know, because if you start such a project, you will certainly also have an idea of what you want it to cost, you know? And I know I'm most probably using more time than I have, but, you know, you shouldn't act as you were in Bayer, you know.
The last speaker after me at the Bayer AGM, you just cut off, you know, and sent to the Nirvana. This is unprofessional, right? Just to tell you this, Mr. Winkeljohann. So, I might... I'm skipping things, but, before the AGM, there were problems with blocked accesses, you know. If you can send in questions up until midnight of a Sunday, your hotline has to be open. Your hotline has to be open for this point in time as well. So to refer to user mistakes is also not pertinent. And I'm getting to the end, Mr. Winkeljohann, you don't have to get your knickers in a twist about this, but, you know, basically, I'm... You know, I like Deutsche Bank, you know?
I mean, you might think I'm a critical shareholder, but I really, I like Deutsche Bank. I mean, we have 45 voting points, and in the shareholders portal, you only have a yes for your things, but not for the others, you know? Yes, your answer was that it's in the usual scope as for other AGMs. So what is usual is that all three options are being offered: yes, no, abstention, for example, and to provide neutrality. And for me, I was so annoyed with that, that I pressed no 45 times, you know, although I actually did not want to do this, but then I was just so angry. And some technical thing, section 130, para. 2 of the Stock Corporation Law, and also communication of section 129, para. 5.
So this is shareholders information that I'm requesting. Right. Ladies and gentlemen, dear co-shareholders, ladies and gentlemen of the administration, thank you very much for giving me the floor. But first of all, I'd like, and most importantly, I'd like to ask every single employee of the Deutsche Bank Group who generated this excellent result for us shareholders, Mr. Winkeljohann, I hope that I will now get substantial answers to my questions. You know, I don't shy away from asking add-on questions to the add-on questions, but I'd rather do not, you know? So, I hope that I will get adequate questions to my answers because they're really simple, you know. But thank you very much again.
Thank you very much, Mr. Gäbler. We do our very best in order to answer your questions. We will now get to several additional focus statements. And I also see that we have first answers on the questions that were asked today, so I will hand over to the Management Board to do this. But let me first continue with the preparation for a third block of speakers. This time, the technicians will get in contact with the following ladies and gentlemen: Ute Zippel, then Michael Werner, Clemens Schellenberg, and then Jörg Ulrich Gebel, who, for technical reasons, was not available. He couldn't be reached now. So this will be block number three, that we will be starting in a short moment.
Please help us with getting you to the waiting room speedily. But now we have a look at the focus topics and with the answering of the questions. We start with Stefan Simon.
Yes, thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, last year, the large majority of more than 87% of the share capital represented, the AGM authorized the Management Board to hold future annual general meetings of Deutsche Bank in virtual format until the 31st of August, 2025. The decision to hold this year's AGM in a virtual format was made by the Management Board in exercising that authorization, taking into account the rights and interests of the shareholders and the company, in accordance with the legal requirements and the provisions of the company's articles of association. The aim of achieving the broadest possible shareholder participation was of particular importance in the course of this decision. Apart from simplifying participation opportunities for our global shareholders through the use of this format, the positive experience from last year's AGM was also built upon.
Last year, the virtual format made it possible to overcome time and language barriers and offer the greatest possible extent of transparency. Shareholders worldwide had the opportunity to submit questions regardless of the time zone they were in, and either in German or in English. We are convinced that it is precisely the chosen format that leads to a high quality of answers and transparency, and enables shareholders to engage in a focused discussion and intensive dialogue with us on the day of the AGM. We are therefore again providing for questions to be submitted in German or in English in advance and answered in the run-up to the annual general meeting again this year. Sustainability and cost considerations also played an important role.
The virtual format avoids longer trips for shareholders and saves around 80% of carbon emissions this year, and it also saves estimated costs of around EUR 2.8 million compared to an in-person meeting. Moreover, the legislator also considers an AGM in a virtual format to be equivalent to an in-person meeting. Many of you also asked us about a hybrid format. A hybrid format would lead to significantly more time and effort required and additional complexity in preparing and holding the AGM, because in that case, both formats, the face-to-face meeting and the virtual format, would have to be adequately taken into account. In addition to the cost for an in-person meeting, such as hall rental or catering or security services, there would also be the technical requirements and the cost of enabling interactive online participation.
The exact additional cost for this is difficult to quantify at this point. To take notarized minutes and the company's voting representatives to attend the AGM in person. In accordance with Section 193 of the company's Articles of Association, members of the Supervisory Board are, however, permitted, after prior consultation with the chairman of the Supervisory Board, to participate in the AGM by means of video and audio transmission if their physical presence at the venue of the AGM would be impossible or only possible at considerable expense due to their having to stay abroad, having to stay in another location in Germany, or due to an unreasonable amount of travel time required. Following this year's AGM, we will carefully evaluate the experience gained both last year and this year, particularly in terms of the format for submitting questions in advance.
In doing so, we will also obtain and take account of the opinions of our key shareholders. On that basis, we will then decide in due course which format we will use for our AGM 2025. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for the support many of you have voiced regarding the format for this year's AGM. I'd like to pass the floor to Alexander von zur Müehlen, my colleague, who's going to tell you more about the backlog in processing in connection with the migration of IT at Postbank.
Yes, thank you very much, Stefan. Ladies and gentlemen, the transfer of around 12 million Postbank customers to Deutsche Bank's IT platform, internally known as Project Unity, was one of the largest IT migration projects within the European banking industry. The project is crucial to creating a basis for modern digital offerings at Deutsche Bank and Postbank.
The complexity and scope of the program were extraordinary. Deutsche Bank focused on data integrity and migrated around 50 billion data records of the around 12 million Postbank clients without any problems or complications. However, we are aware that we should have provided more support to Postbank clients, both in the call centers and in terms of processing. The number of inquiries that Postbank was confronted with during the migration was underestimated and led to an operational backlog at Postbank in responding to client inquiries. It was important for us to work through this backlog as quickly as possible and learn some lessons for the future. A small number of our service processes were affected. However, unfortunately, these included processes that led to considerable restrictions for some of our clients. These restrictions and inconveniences for the affected clients have been intensively covered by the media...
However, a more comprehensive view shows a more balanced picture. The vast majority of our Postbank clients have hardly had any restrictions in recent months. Our top priority was on reducing the increased processing times for some of our services and the backlog of client inquiries. This is the basis for us to regain the trust of our customers that we may have lost. To that end, we have mobilized additional resources and deployed more than 800 additional internal and external employees who have supported and continue to support us in dealing with the backlog. We've improved our processes in line with urgency for our clients, and this applies in particular to garnishments and the disbursement of loans. We have also automated processes and procedures in order to reduce the backlog.
We've introduced accelerated processes and discussed them with the German consumer advice centers in order to be able to help our clients as quickly as possible in the event of hardship. We have introduced a digital compensation process for clients particularly strongly affected by the restrictions in the field of garnishments, in order to be able to fulfill any justified claims quickly. We are also continuously investing in our telephone service. This has enabled us to significantly reduce the average waiting time in Postbank call centers. Since the turn of the year, we've been offering our clients services with waiting times that are now significantly shorter than before the IT migration in 2023. Let me now turn to the current state of play.
As at the end of March 2024, we had completed processing of the backlog in client-critical processes that were the subject of BaFin's orders, and we are continuing to work towards improving our service processes. Since then, new requests from our clients in these processes have also been processed within the defined service times. Any additional restrictions in service processes that have already been corrected are now also due to other factors. Our call centers, as the first point of contact for any queries and complaints from clients, have been very easy to reach again for many months now. We are well positioned to deal with our clients' concerns immediately.
We are aware that we need to continuously develop our client service and processes over the next few months, and this includes further automating processes in order to ensure that processing times in all areas meet expectations and requirements in the long run. Moreover, we are continuing to pursue the strategy adopted at the end of 2023 of developing Postbank into a mobile-first bank in the medium term, and offering its clients all products and services in a convenient format, that is, through mobile phones, tablets, or personal advice. The figures for financial year 2023 have shown that clients remain loyal to Postbank. Postbank clients entrusted us with over EUR 5 billion worth of new savings, savings deposits last year, 40% of which were done via online transactions.
The Postbank brand made a substantial contribution to the fact that the German private bank was able to significantly increase its earnings in 2023. Despite the difficulties, the IT migration was a milestone in Postbank's further development. The joint platform of Deutsche Bank and Postbank is the basis for modern digital offerings for all our 19 million customers. We regard migration, this IT migration, as a turning point and a starting point for revising and redesigning our service solutions. And here I'd like to pass the floor to Christian Sewing, who will talk about our sustainability policies and the financing of fossil fuels at the end of this block of answers. Thank you very much.
Ladies and gentlemen, as I already pointed out in my speech, Deutsche Bank wants to support its clients as a strategic partner in the transformation to more sustainable and climate-neutral business models. Our goal is to support the gradual and orderly phase out of fossil fuels. At the same time, the goal is to create incentives to promote the development of technologies with lower carbon intensity and credible transformation plans within companies. Deutsche Bank has therefore published policies for business activities in CO2-intensive sectors, including coal mining and oil and gas. While we updated our policy for coal mining last year, and I will come back to this in a moment, we are currently revising our oil and gas policy, and we expect we will be able to publish our new policy soon. Since 2016, we have significantly reduced our lending exposure to these carbon-intensive sectors.
Loan commitments in the coal mining sector, including thermal coal and metallurgical coal, totaled EUR 1.4 billion at the end of 2023. This corresponds to a portion of 0.2% of the bank's total loan book, based on total loan commitments.... At the end of 2022, this number had been EUR 1.5 billion. In the oil and gas sector, outstanding loan receivables amounted to EUR 7 billion at the end of 2023, and this corresponds to a share of 1.5% of the bank's total loan book. Let me now turn to the coal policy. Deutsche Bank makes business decisions not only on the basis of applicable laws, but also on the basis of its own policies and self-commitments, and of course, this also applies to environmental and social aspects.
As early as in 2016, Deutsche Bank set itself strict policies for its new business- for its business activities in carbon-intensive sectors, and here, in particular, for energy production and, energy promotion. In March 2023, the bank clarified and tightened its policy for coal. The updated policy entered into force in May 2023. It applies to the bank's business operations worldwide, with the exception of DWS. DWS, as a listed company, published its own policy in April 2023. In future, companies will be affected by our policy if they generate 30% or more of their revenues from thermal coal. Until May 2023, a turnover threshold of 50% had applied.
Regardless of the threshold, all companies that produce at least 10 megatons of thermal coal per year or have the capacity to generate more than 10 GW of electricity from coal, will be subject to that policy. In future, the bank will only support companies with a revenue share of more than 30% if they present credible transformation plans. Existing clients must develop such transformation plans by the end of 2025. For new clients, these plans are a prerequisite for entering into a business relationship with them in the first place. Deutsche Bank has defined assessment criteria for transformation plans. Companies from OECD countries are expected to fully exit the thermal coal business by 2030. For companies from non-OECD countries, exit has to take place by 2040.
At the same time, we reaffirm our previous commitment to completely end the financing of existing clients in the thermal coal mining sector, with a revenue share of more than 50% by 2025, unless there are any credible transformation plans. State-owned companies in countries with so-called Just Energy Transition Partnership programs are allowed to define target paths for phasing out the mining of thermal coal in such a way that they comply with the relevant country's obligations under the program, and the changes build upon the existing policies from 2016. The policy now excludes project financing for new thermal coal mines and the expansion of existing mines. It also continues to prohibit the financing of the construction of new coal-fired power plants and the expansion of existing coal-fired power plants.
Apart from the policies for the individual sectors, we now have published as net zero target paths for seven of the most emission-intensive industries in our corporate credit portfolio. After oil and gas, power generation, automotive, and steel in 2022, three more sectors were added in the autumn of 2023: coal mining, cement, and shipping. This covers 54% of financed emissions in our corporate loan portfolio, with interim targets fixed for 2030 and a net zero target fixed for 2050. In May of this year, the bank also disclosed the carbon footprint for its European residual loan portfolio and published its first transition plan in October 2023. With the sectoral decarbonization targets and the residential loan portfolio, the bank has thus published the emissions of around 60% of its entire loan book.
The bank is planning to publish net zero targets for at least two additional sectors in the course of 2024. We also proposed to the AGM that from 2024, a part of the Management Board remuneration in the long-term award will be based on whether or not we meet our own target paths for financed emissions. Our ambition is that from 2026, at least 90% of our clients from particularly carbon-intensive sectors will commit to a net zero target, if they wish to take out new corporate loans. In the light of the global economic development, which is leading to an increase in CO2 emissions overall, this continues to be a very ambitious goal. We are therefore working consistently to make transition planning and assessment an integral part of our dialogue with carbon-intensive companies.
Let me also briefly comment on the state of play with regard to finance emissions from fossil fuels. Deutsche Bank aims to reduce finance emissions in the oil and gas sector by 23% by 2030, and by 90% by 2050, compared to baseline year 2021, and calculated in millions of tons of CO2. In the coal mining sector, financed Scope 3 emissions are to be reduced by 49% by 2030, and by 97% by 2050, compared to baseline year 2022, and again, in millions of tons of CO2. For the oil and gas and coal mining sectors, the situation is as follows as at the end of 2023. Let me start with oil and gas. Finance Scope 3 emissions amounted to 18.5 million tons of CO2 per year.
This is an increase of 11% year-on-year. However, compared to baseline year 2021, with 23.4 million tons of CO2 per year, this represents a decrease of 21%. The main reasons for the development in 2023 were, above all, effects from the client portfolio, the impact of exchange rate fluctuations in 2021 and 2022, as well as lower emission factors due to higher company values, including cash or total assets. Next, coal mining. Financed Scope 3 emissions fell by 23% year-on-year to 6.1 million tons of CO2 per year, and they break down roughly equally between thermal coal and metallurgical coal. They are below the base value for baseline year 2022 of 7.9 million euros. 7.9 million tons of CO2 per year, sorry.
The development also reflects the fact that we have divested from certain customers, but also that the customers' emission factors have increased due to rising corporate values, including cash in 2022, as a result of which our financing share declined. As already emphasized over the past few years, we expect the development of Scope 3 financed emissions in the oil and gas and coal mining sectors to remain volatile for reasons that are not within our control. We will continue to address these reasons in the future, regardless of whether they have a positive or negative impact on the level of financed emissions. On all other sectors, you will find detailed information in our non-financial report on pages 59-66.
We regard it as our responsibility to continue to support clients who are investing in the transformation of our economy, even if they still have high levels of emissions at the time being. What matters to us is that we see credible transition plans and publicly available information and self-commitments. For example, if a carbon-intensive energy supplier invests in sustainable energy production and we finance that, then this may temporarily lead to an increase in the carbon footprint in terms of emissions in this sector. We are aware that some NGOs want us to act differently. Please allow me to make a comment at this point. As banks, we can only support the transition to a sustainable economy. We cannot bring it about, and we can only support it if we are in close contact with our clients.
That is why terminating a client relationship should only be the last resort if a client shows no willingness at all to make a credible transition to a carbon-free, carbon-neutral economy. It does not help the climate in any way if we did terminate a client relationship and instead finance less, less regulated financial market participants or companies with weaker standards for carbon-intensive activities. If we terminate a client relationship for good reason, we will not talk about it. Confidentiality with regard to existing or potential client relationships is and remains a reliable value for our bank. We ask you for your understanding for, once again, not complying with your request to provide information on potential or existing client relationships at this annual general meeting, as in the past.
We also, as a matter of principle, do not comment on any questions regarding the financing or non-financing of certain projects by the bank. The bank will also not comment on any questions relating to companies that are not clients of the bank in order to avoid drawing conclusions in other cases. In view of the criticism voiced by NGOs in this context, we trust we can engage in a constructive exchange with you, which we actually conduct with many NGOs in numerous formats. As already is pointed out beforehand, Deutsche Bank is not afraid to terminate a client relationship if a client shows no willingness at all for a credible transition to its carbon-free economy. Even in cases where Deutsche Bank takes that measure as a last resort, we will not comment publicly, contrary to the demands raised by many NGOs.
A summary of the existing policies of the bank is published on its website and in its non-financial report. The bank monitors new developments and best practice, and adapts its policies accordingly. So much for our statements. I'd like to hand back to Norbert Winkeljohann at this point.
Thanks a lot, Christian. First of all, we'd like to thank the members of the Management Board for answering the questions so far, and we will now have the next shareholders asking questions, and then after that, we will have further answers provided. So we're starting out with Mr. Jörg Ulrich Gebel, then Ute Zippel, and after, Daniel Michael Werner. Mr. Gebel, you've got the floor.
Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen, first of all, I ask for evidence according to Section 25, Subsection 5 of the Stock Corporation Act and Section 25, Subsection 4, Stock Corporation Act, and according to Section 130, Sentence two of the Stock Corporation Act. My first question is about the refusal to provide access in registering for the AGM. For which reasons were various shareholders not granted technical access to register for the virtual AGM?
Why, even after repeat complaints with the company and the technical service providers, were they not given access? Now, as these are shareholders who are known for numerous and critical questions, my fear is that next year I will, in the same way, be not granted access to the AGM anymore if today I ask critical questions from your point of view. The names... And I have the names of the respective shareholders, but for the sake of confidentiality, I do not want to disclose them at this point, but I can forward them to you if you're interested. My first question on, on the actual subject matter of the AGM is about the, the risk types of the German Stock Corporation Act within the group and also in the companies of the group for the years 2021, 2022, and 2023. That is the risk takers.
So please specify the 3 most important reasons for the change of these numbers of risk takers in the respective years. Please also specify the number of risk takers within the group and within the German groups of the company, which in the year 2023 were entitled to a compensation of at least EUR 500,000, broken down into risk takers according to the average criterion, according to Section 25, 5 B, and the materiality criterion, according to 25, 5 B, 3 B. How many employees and employees refers to male and female employees. Now, how many employees did in the years 2021, 2022, and 2023 have an entitlement to an overall compensation, that means fixed compensation and bonuses, incentives, long-term incentives, and so on and so forth, of at least EUR 1 million or the equivalent in foreign currencies?
My next question, questions apply to the workers' council. According to Section 730, number 1 of the Works Constitution Act, the members of the workers' council are holding the office for without any compensation. Now, workers' councils are also saw this differently at other companies. Bernd Osterloh, the former head of the workers' council of Volkswagen, received EUR 750,000 per year, including bonus payments. Four Volkswagen managers in 2023 were sentenced for reasons of embezzlement in the year 2023 for granting works council members such high levels of compensation. Basically, the payment for works council members in Germany can follow two systems. On the one hand, based upon the comparable development of comparative persons within the company, and the other method is the so-called hypothetical career.
In simplified terms, this means it is estimated which career an employee would have pursued without his or her works council career. And that is why these are two widespread methods for the payment of works council members, not only at Volkswagen. In its written statement, the Federal Constitutional Court rejected the so-called hypothetical model. Daniela Cavallo, the successor at the head of the works council of the Volkswagen, received about EUR 100,000 per year. Now, you remember, Mr. Osterloh had EUR 750,000. Now, up to 80 of the 250 employee representatives-...
had to see their compensation reduced according to that court ruling at Volkswagen, and in some cases, the reduction, at the peak reduction was up to EUR 4,000 per month, and one works council member dropped from salary bracket 17 to salary bracket 8, which was a cut by more than 50%. Now, why am I talking about that? Well, that is the introduction to my questions. Namely, number one: after the ruling of the Federal Court of Justice of first of October 2023, did Deutsche Bank also have to slash the compensation of works council members? And in how many cases did that happen? How high was the maximum, the minimum, and the average decrease of the compensation in euros and also in %? Please explain and describe the model of payment of full-time works council members at Deutsche Bank AG.
Is there a respective manual or a policy available for that purpose? Please also specify the number of full-time works council members in the group or members of comparable foreign bodies. Please specify the highest, the lowest, and the average overall compensation of the full-time works council members within the group. And at this point, I already would point out that the answer to this question cannot be refused with reference to Data Privacy Act. According to the ruling of the Federal Court of Justice, this is no longer possible. My next questions apply to the notary public. Now, which criteria and which skills requirements have been defined by the Management Board and the Supervisory Board in selecting the notary public of this AGM? Now, please do not tell us that you're meeting the strict legal requirements. I'm aware of them.
I rather would like to know which specific criteria and quality criteria were applied. For how many years has the notary public been appointed for the AGM of Deutsche Bank AG? Does the company, like the system for the auditor, intend to change the notary public at certain intervals? Did the Management Board and the Supervisory Board verify the independence of the notary public? If so, in which manner and on the basis of which specific criteria? And here, once again, please do not tell me that you just go by the legal requirements. I'm familiar with them. I specifically would like to know what you looked into and what you considered important. How high is the compensation of the notary public for today's AGM? Did the notary public have... Did he perform services for the company in 2023 and 2024 as a notary public?
Which were these services, and how high was the compensation for these activities as a notary public for the company in 2023 and 2024? And please do not give me just a generalized answer referring to the legal requirements and the respective amounts set there. And then please also describe the 20 relevant activities and the respective amounts. So please rather give me the total. What was the share of payments of companies of the group in the total income of the notary public in the year 2023?
At this point, once again, I would like to point out that answering this question cannot be refused for data privacy reasons or by just saying, "We do not know." The share of the income from the bank relative to the notary public's overall income is a key criterion for assessing the independence of the notary public, and any lacking information in this regard would be suited to raise shareholders' doubts about the independence and neutrality of the notary public. The shareholders' rights to obtain information on matters of the company which he is involved in is a key basis and a key element of the shareholders' rights. It's considered a basic right of shareholders because such information is an indispensable requisite for us shareholders to live up to our corporate rights and obligations as a shareholder.
Only a shareholder having insight into the activities and obligations of the company can live up to its own shareholders' obligations. At the same time, the shareholders also do have rights due to their shares that they're holding, and they have also basic rights, according to the German law in complaining about the information which is not disclosed to them by the company. So therefore, even according to our German constitution, shareholders do have the right to obtain information about the companies they're holding shares in, just in the way I did in the previous questions and the ones that are still going to follow. Now, my last topic is the participation in meetings of the Supervisory Board and its committees. Which members of the Supervisory Board did-...
Participate in which meetings of the Supervisory Board or the committees, or which ones did not, or only partially participate in such meetings? For which of these meetings did they designate proxies or send in voting, their written votes? And in which meetings did they not participate? Please give us just a brief overview of those matters of the meetings where Supervisory Board members were not present or were only present partially. And please give also the respective names of these members. Which members of the Supervisory Board did participate virtually in meetings of the Supervisory Board or its committees?
Thank you very much. Mr. Gäbler, please stay in line. In the very beginning, you asked for the long versions of the results to be read out. Is that correct? And now we were showing the results on the screen, so does it make sense for me to read them out in verbatim? Because that would mean that the AGM would last 30 or 40 minutes longer.
Well, Mr. Mickeljan, this is not the first time that you're doing this, and you've did that before, and with that, the intention of the legislature is ignored. Therefore, I'm very grateful for that question. I specifically referred to the disclosure of the results as required by the law, that this means in verbatim, and not only by showing them on the screen. I'm not trying to annoy you by asking for this, but the point is that we cannot take notes, and basically, the principle of having an oral AGM applies.
And therefore, I would like to add one more question, namely: How many lawyers were involved in preparing this AGM and now are working in the back office? How many of these lawyers are members of external law firms? What's the name of those law firms, and what is the cost arising from the support of these law fir
ms? Well, thank you very much, Mr. Gäbler. And this brings us to Mr. Daniel Michael Werner, and then I'd like to ask Clemens Schillenberg and Ute Zippel to get ready. So, Mr. Werner, now you've got the floor.
Good afternoon, I'm Daniel Werner. I'm a private shareholder, long-term customer of Postbank, and also of Deutsche Bank. And I've got about, about three key topics, namely the format of the AGM, that is application of AI and Postbank. Let me start with the AGM format.
Now, first of all, I've got a question because there's something I don't understand. Now, my impression is that this year, it is no longer required just to ask follow-up questions on the questions submitted beforehand, but here you have eased the requirements again. I tried to really read the small print, but I didn't see anything, so therefore, I assume that it is no longer such a strict requirement as it was last year. Now, the AGM format.
Now, I once again would like to emphasize my request to return to a face-to-face AGM for the following reasons: The reasons specified by Deutsche Bank in favor of a virtual format are mainly cost arguments, and here you specified the costs for a virtual AGM, namely amounting to EUR 2.8 million, and the last time you held face-to-face meetings, it was EUR 4.6 million. So that means it's a savings of about 40%. I would have expected more. So the savings do not seem to be too great to me. So it's just EUR 1.8 million. Now, I'm not using that no-no word, peanuts, but I think these savings are not really too tremendous. Then, you also argued that broad-based shareholder participation is to be made possible.
I asked about the participation and attendance at the last, in-person, attendance, which was about 3,000 at the last in-person meeting. And then last year, at the virtual AGM, we had 900 shareholders who had dialed in, and at the end of last year's AGM, it was only 55 left. So 3,500 compared to 55. Now, that's not really a broad-based participation of shareholders compared to an in-person AGM. And then, your, your first ar-third argument was reducing CO2 emissions. Now, here I suggest that like Hochtief did in the past, before it was taken over by the Spanish HSC. Now, they handed out a free ticket for public transportation to shareholders intending to attend the AGM, which means any shareholder was able to use public means of transportation to get to the venue.
I think this would be a great sign of solidarity. I mean, you could deduct this amount from the dividend to be paid out. That would not hit the free float shareholders too much, but rather the major institutional shareholders, and would be also a contribution to sustainability. Now, so much for the AGM format. Then, my next topic is the use of AI. I had submitted a couple of questions on this subject, which you had also answered, but one. I had also asked whether Deutsche Bank is not only looking into the ethical matters and complex matters related to AI, but whether you are also members of ethical commissions outside the company, and if you're not, why not? And if you are, what are these additional ethical bodies specifically? Then my next topic is Postbank.
And here, my basic question is the following: Now, in its tradition, Postbank has been a bank which, especially when I became a Postbank customer, was used by people with a low income, students, pensionists, people who want to go to the branches and have their savings accounts there. You're still listening? Are you? Oh, okay. And against this background, my impression is, or, or my question is, or I feel that Deutsche Bank also has got a social responsibility in taking over the Postbank, namely a responsibility for customers which are lower, in the lower income brackets. Now, my question is: What is the current structure of the Postbank clients? Now, where, where is it? I'm getting lost there. Now, the breakdown in terms of profession, level of income, and age.
Now, this did that breakdown change or that composition, or is it still the case that primarily elderly people and pensionists are using the Postbank? And in this context, and regarding the IT, there's one thing I really would like to emphasize: All the employees who have been criticized so much and who fought the hard battles to support customers one way or the other, and to help them at the call centers, I mean, these people, they were everyday heroes to me. I did have an issue myself, which was about the termination of a savings card, but still, that was not such a major issue, but it took three months.
And I called the call center many, many times and explained very quietly everything I did and where I had terminated that savings card, so in a very calm manner. And then that employee told me: "You know what? You were so nice in expressing what you wanted. I, I... People have been screaming at me for four hours, but you are the first one who's been very friendly." So I can only say, chapeau, the call center's agents, they, they really deserve really a bonus and a great thank you for the great job they did on answering the telephone calls. Now, back to Postbank. I would like to know what Deutsche Bank thinks about the fact that access, and digitalization, and online banking is becoming more and more complicated every year, and that more and more users need to have digital end devices.
Now, I've got friends who've got accounts, not only at Postbank, but well, this now applies to almost every bank. Now, they need to have three mobile phones to install the various apps to make sure that in an urgency, they still have access to their account. Now, I think this is a very difficult development, and in this regard, I'd like to know what is Deutsche Bank's possibility of having a kind of an analog fallback, which means going to the branch, or also resorting to telephone banking, because this would be, in some cases, the last resort to be able to get access to one's bank account. Now, unfortunately, placing orders via telephone banking are much more costly for customers than online banking. So if you've got an IT problem, you will have to pay more.
I believe, especially if you look at the structure of Postbank, this might be not really very nice in social terms, to put it mildly. So I think this is really a major problem, because passwords have to become more and more complex. You always have to make sure you update your apps, and if such an end device is not working, or if something isn't working on the side of Postbank, then this means people do not have a possibility to access their accounts anymore. So we are becoming more dependent on Apple, Google, Microsoft, and all of the other tech groups. When there's a technical problem, then customers have a technical problem right away. Now, that has been my regarding questions.
I'm asking about the structure and the question for Deutsche Bank, what it thinks of its own social responsibility, especially regarding the private customers of Postbank. Now, two minor follow-up questions. Sustainability. Now, you have specified that you also now have teamed up with Miles & More, so that... That's a kind of a discount association for frequent flyers. How does this tally with your sustainability ambitions? Miles & More means you get a bonus if you fly more, but our ambition should be to reduce flying. And then finally, my summary is that I believe that EY, due to the Wirecard scandal, has lost any credibility to act and be appointed as an auditor. With that, I thank you very much, and I'm looking forward to your questions.
Thank you very much, Mr. Werner. Next, I would like to ask Clemens Schell to take the floor. He's going to be followed by Ute Zippel. Mr. Schellenberg, the floor is yours.
Good afternoon. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen of the Management Board and the Supervisory Board, dear shareholders. I am a shareholder representing my own shares that I've been holding for 15 years. Why do I mention this? I want to I don't want you to think that I just bought shares in order to give a presentation. We hear a lot about transformation and transformation processes of Deutsche Bank, and it's been the case for a few years. And as much as I understand, a lot has been achieved, ratios, net income, the capital position of the bank was improved, and also the strategic positioning of the bank is more proactive and more fitting, right? But we still have to see that price to book is still not very strong.
If I look at the Euro Stoxx, for example, I have seven banks with the valuation of which the market capitalization is higher than ours, so there is no reason for resting on laurels for anyone. Now, against the backdrop of all the positive messages that we got from Mr. Sewing and his colleagues, I have to contradict, because the transformation of the bank obviously has not been understood by all people. There are still people that live in their ivory towers and have their very own idea of things. You know, I'd like to give you an example. I'm part of an estate, right? An inheritance estate, and we had to dissolve eight accounts. We had to cancel eight accounts, and we started this in October of 2023, and we've managed to cancel six accounts.
Six banks have managed to do this, and as I'm here at the AGM of Deutsche Bank, you can imagine, oh, which banks have not managed to cancel these accounts? It's Deutsche Bank and Postbank. Now, after handing in the documents with both banks, nothing happened. Nothing at all. During that time, one of the other estates in Austria died, so that we had to provide additional documents. We did so, and with Postbank, we managed to do so quite quickly, and they then canceled the account. So I hope that this will be the same for Deutsche Bank. But this was different because then the bank was really getting going. In spite of us presenting all the documents, they rejected the canceling of the account.
When we asked them why, and they told me. And because we told them that the Postbank managed to dissolve the account, and they said: "Well, we don't care a thing about Postbank." I was surprised about this statement, so I was asking you, why when it comes to the departments dealing with such matters, such estate matters, for example, why don't you merge them? Because this saves a lot of time, this saves a lot of cost, and it saves friction when it comes to your approach to the client. I'd like to ask as to whether every department of Deutsche Bank is up to their task when it comes to their knowledge, experience, when it comes to their mindset. And we are still trying to find a solution with this department of Deutsche Bank.
For example, Deutsche Bank wants to have a certificate of inheritance, but in Austria, there's nothing like a certificate of inheritance. It is also difficult that this department, the estate department, cannot be contacted by telephone, neither by the internal colleagues, nor by customers. Another problem is that the estate department has two parts: one part that talks to customers and another part that does the back office work, you know, that tests and decides, investigates and decides, et cetera. There is no personal contact because an inheritor cannot get in contact with the people who take the decisions, neither can their colleagues. There is no factual exchange possible, you know, with the people taking the decisions.
So my question is, your operational organization creates numerous inefficiencies that results in numerous telephone calls compared to other banks and in, considerable delays. The costs are borne by us, the shareholders. So are you thinking about a potential reorganization of things? Secondly, you're describing, Mr. Sewing, the successes when it comes to reorientation, when it comes to focusing the new foci of Deutsche Bank, et cetera. I have the impression that not all employees are really customer-facing or want to be customer-facing. I rather reckon that they stick to their, their, processes and are in a rather blindfolded way, you know, blinkered, to say so. Are they aware of the fact... Are the employees aware of the fact that with the way they go about their business, they shy away, potential clients and also make other customers become ex-customers of Deutsche Bank?
You know, I got in contact with the complaints officer of Deutsche Bank, and I asked—I wanted to complain about the estate department, and I asked for the responsible Management Board member so that I can send him or her a letter. This was not possible because they couldn't tell me who was responsible in the Management Board, so I'm quite surprised about that one. So then I'm asking you now, which member of the Management Board is responsible for the complaints department and the estate department, Nachlassabteilung, of Deutsche Bank?
And my last question: Is it possible that the estate department and the complaints department are really housed comfortably in their ivory tower, and there is a disconnect between you and this department, that we still have the typical bank clerk there, or that perhaps transformation hasn't gotten to these departments yet? We don't know or forgot about it. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much, Mr. Schellenberg, and as the last speaker in this round, in this block, I see Ute Zippel. Ms. Zippel, the floor is all yours.
Well, I'm sorry for the delay. My computer, it was not inclined to go online, but it's a little older, you know. So my name is Ute Zippel from Wilnsdorf in Siegen. Since 2009, I have made statements at the AGMs of Deutsche Bank.
Deutsche Bank knows myself and the fraud case, and I'm just a nuisance. I'm alone, and I'm poor now. Before I built my house, actually, Deutsche Bank knew me as a client. This is why I trusted them, and I got a loan in the amount of DEM 132,000 to build a house, and this was a trap. As a trap, and meant to deplete my well-filled account. I got the documents, the loan was entered into the official register, and then a house was built, which proved to be a useless house, which was built. And, and it was just... It was a ruin, you know, it could never be used.
Then, as advised by Deutsche Bank, I continued building on my own behalf and on my own costs so that I could move in there just to have a roof over my head. I mean, I still live there, but the house is worthless, and it, there is no insurance coverage because it's incomplete and it is damaged. My payments went from the account of Deutsche Bank to the account of the builder at the Sparkasse in Siegen. I had a court order in my favor, but I have not seen any money because the builder went bankrupt. Then I became ill, I became unemployed, so my life broke down. There was chicanery also by Deutsche Bank, you know, seizures, auctioning off. They did no longer want me as a customer.
However, I then inherited some money from my family, and I could cover everything, and I have now a pension of EUR 1,040. The most vicious part of this fraud is the type of financing that was offered. It was a credit by way of bank guarantee or guarantee credit, you know? Most bankers don't know what this is, an Avalkredit, and my lack of knowledge was misused. So any authorities or lawyers that came in later on obviously knew about this type of financing, and I always objected to the result. Also, the leading law firm, you know, I had mandated at considerable costs, and they also led me into seizure, you know, into pledging of my house. So, until I brought in another lawyer.
So there's a lot of water on my building ground, and this is why at the floor of the basement, which should have been built in a different way, there is a lot of water, and I can't manage that. It's really clear. When I then filed a complaint because of fraud with the public prosecutor, I was threatened by my banker. They said, "If I don't sell, they will... I will learn how malicious Deutsche Bank can be." This is what he told me, you know? I still live in this ruin because I believe that the justice will be dealt in the last analysis. You know, Mr. Nieding, you know, got EUR 10 million to keep quiet about fraud cases. So this is obviously the way to... This is obviously to deal with this.
You know, you have my address, and I would finally like to have an honest answer from you.
Thank you very much, Ute Zippel. Thank you very much, Ms. Zippel. Thank you very much for your statement. Before we start with answering additional question, we will now start into a last round for the link up of speakers. You know the procedure. On the list of the remaining speaker are Dr. Michael Körner and Carola Annette Stahl. And however, to be able to structure the further procedure of the AGM, I would like to ask speakers who want to take the floor to do this within the next 15 minutes, and after that, I will close the list of speakers.
If additional shareholders want to take the floor during the next 15 minutes, we are happy to also put you on the list and ask you to come to the waiting room, step by step. But I think we have some more answers, if I'm not mistaken, and Christian Sewing will be starting. I have one answer. There's a bit of a technical delay here. Right.
Thank you very much, Norbert. I will start with some answers to questions. Mr. Massa, you asked us for information on business relationships, transparency there. Please bear with us that discretion with regard to business relationships has top priority. We are happy to describe the implementation of our guidelines and policies, but not at the level of customer transactions, individual customer transactions.
You will find the answers to your questions in the document that was put on our website under the numbers 143 and 153. Another other answer on the question of Mr. Massa, you're asking us for the additional effort that would become necessary through binding rules in the area of ESG controls and sustainability. In our pre-published answer, we refer, amongst other things, to the implementation of the EU Taxonomy when it comes to collection of data and new data platforms. The effort is created in the framework of our established processes and organization because sustainability as a topic is embedded in that as part of our strategic approach. We do not separately report these costs. An answer on that can be found in our document under ID 149.
An additional add-on question by Mr. Massa, you asked about the applicability of sustainability rules for large accounts and the investment business. We welcome reliable rules independent of the group of customers. Even now, our guidelines, and principles, and policies provide for a due diligence, a global due diligence, when it comes to the investment division of the investment bank, the credit loan provision of the corporate bank, and also the lending activities of the private bank when it comes to business clients. The answer can be found in the document on the AGM website under number 149. Mr. Massa, you also asked as to whether, with our clients, we asked about the informed consent given by communities that are affected by measures.
Let me tell you this, irrespective of concrete transactions, we are in a constant exchange of information with our clients. ID 161 is the numeral under which you find the original answer to the question. Dear Ms. Petz, you asked us about how we treat a customers who do not show any efforts for a credible transition. Over and beyond our answer that was given, we don't have... I'd like to say that we don't have any general selection criteria, but it's always case-by-case decisions. Our original answers can be found in our document provided on the website under the complex of sustainability policies and financing of fossil fuels. Ms. Petz, you also asked a question on the volatility of Scope 3 emissions in oil, gas, and coal mining.
We would like to add to the answers already given. Major drivers for the volatility are the following factors that have to be included into the equation: company values, financing of the bank and the shares, and information on current and future sustainability reporting of our clients. Our financing in the area of coal mining are sensitive to, for example, changes of the customer-specific emission factors. The bank is providing comprehensive transparency on the measures that are being used, and also the impact in its sustainability reporting. Our answers you can find in the document on our websites under the heading of Sustainability Policy and Financing, Financing of Fossil Fuels. Ms.
Petz, you're also asking about the possibility for extending loans on sustainable economic activity if a company. We believe that when it comes to sustainability finance, we assess the use of funds that we provide. This has to have a sustainable purpose, you know, and you'll find the original answer under numeral number 166. I hand back to you, Norbert.
Stefan Simon will continue with some answers.
Yes, I do... Many shareholders, or were dialing into the shareholders portal and peak, and how, how many came from outside of Germany? In total, 378 shareholders logged into the shareholders portal today. 299 was the peak figure, 290 in Germany, 1 in Austria, 2 from Switzerland, 1 from Luxembourg, and 5 from the non-German-speaking countries. Then Mr. Kieler. Mr. Kieler, you asked about the terminology of, the implementation measures or enforcement measures. This term is in line with what we have described under the complex litigation and cases, and this is in line with the authority measures, so this is a synonym. And the figure here is based on the internal reporting of the bank, where we are capturing the number of cases. And then a question by Mr. Gäbler.
Mr. Gäbler asked about the background of the catering costs for last year's AGM, amounting to roughly EUR 36,000 . I can tell you that it was not only the catering costs on the day of the AGM itself, but another 10 days approximately for the setup and the dismantling of the equipment needed for the AGM. Norbert, back to you.
Yes, thank you. Let's ask for some direction here. Will we now have the next questions? Okay, we'll hear the next speakers, and I can now ask Mr. Dr. Michael Körner, followed by Carola Annette Stahl, and then again, Daniel Michael Werner. Michael, Mr. Körner, you have the floor.
Yes, thank you. Can you all hear me?
Yes, very well.
Then let me start. One, myself. My name is Dr. Michael Körner, and I am a medical doctor in Weinheim, and I have been customer of Deutsche Bank since 2005, and I have been a shareholder for one and a half years, and my wife used to work for Deutsche Bank. The reason why I'm calling in is linking up to what Mr. Schellenberg already mentioned, and this is complaints management. I also have to tell you that I don't like complaints management, and I really ask the board of management to make changes here and to deal with this. I know, of course, that many of the requests are about claiming money, and you cannot always be friendly to the user. But if the client has a problem like me, there was just a wrong tax statement because I, there was a wrong ID about my business.
I have always been a private customer, and I always had my accounts as a private customer, and I also have a letter by Deutsche Bank. They talk to me as a private customer, so they should be able to help you in order not to have a tax disadvantage. This is what I want to make sure. And what I really experienced with complaints management was really terrible. There were only very few exchanges of letters, and finally, people said, well, they ignored all the documents I presented, and they all said, "These are still suspicions." And then later on, they said they no longer want to talk to me, everything was settled. And this is something that you don't do with good customers, and I have to ask the board of management to change this. Yes, I can solve my problems myself.
I also sent two personal letters to Mr. Sewing. I will do it again because the complaints department no longer wants to talk to me. I'm sure that this matter can be solved, but I'm not the only one. I'm also a shareholder, and my wife always worked for Deutsche Bank, and she's always passionate about the bank. I don't want to leave Deutsche Bank. I wish the bank the best, and I know from the branch offices that all the people are very committed. But then it's not possible to have a complaints management that are so unfriendly when it comes to the requests by the customers. This was one point, and now I will... It was about the tax statement.
I always got the normal tax statements, but as I am not a tax and finance expert, I did not see that in these statements there were different versions. I simply didn't know. I'm not an expert in this matter, and this is something that was written to me. This has changed in 2009. In 2008, there had been a question to the customers, and those who had not responded as a private client, they were reclassified. I didn't get this letter, and I only got my account, and it was very clearly said that I'm a private investor. In 2014, as I said, I got a letter by Deutsche Bank writing to me as a private investor about church tax.
Then when I wanted to sell a few shares because I bought a mobile home, then I, of course, wanted to avoid the taxation of my profits. So I sold shares where I made losses and where I made profit, and I more or less was breaking even. But before I did this, I asked, or I informed my advisor at Deutsche Bank in Weinheim and asked her for advice. She couldn't give me any advice, but she knew what I was planning, and I was not really angry. Or I, at first, was angry because I thought she was giving me the wrong advice, but no, she also thought of me as a private investor. She did not know that I was reclassified, and this is another point. You just have to make sure that the classification is transparent to the customer.
We always get customer reporting and all the different letters. You can just mention this because it has become more and more important. In the past, it was not a problem. Then you just send all your capital income reports with your cap attachment. But now the tax office needs more information, and if this, there is a mistake, you will have trouble. So I just want to get a correct statement, and in October, in time, before I sold the shares, I asked my advisor in the branch office, and there she should have noticed that there is a wrong classification, and then you can just send me the necessary documentation and change the mistake made earlier. That's what I wanted to say. And then I also have to say that I like the development of Deutsche Bank in recent times.
When Mr. Sewing took over, my wife said: "Finally, it's the right person at the helm of Deutsche Bank." I also support her here. I found his presentation very convincing. Of course, one man cannot do it all, but perhaps it helps you that in the areas of complaints management and customer classification, you change things. This doesn't require a lot of steps, and it doesn't cost a lot of money. Thank you for your attention.
Thank you very much, Mr. Körner. We listened to you very attentively, and the next speaker will now be Carola Annette Stahl, followed by Karl-Werner Freitag and Daniel Michael Werner. Mrs. Stahl, you have the floor.
Thank you. Now I have an error message. Can you hear me?
Yes, we can hear you.
My name is Carola Stahl, and ladies and gentlemen, dear members of the board of management, dear members of the Supervisory Board, dear press representatives, dear shareholders, dear employees, and dear investors, it is a great pleasure and an honor for me to be here today, and I wish all the people here a lot of success and luck. It is a not pleasure to talk to you today. My name is Carola Stahl. My name is Carola Stahl, and I was born in Frankfurt, and I love to be in Frankfurt. I, first of all, would like to congratulate for your excellent profit in the year 2023 and the excellent first quarter result for DWS. Well, you already explained this in detail, Mr. Sewing and Mr. James von Moltke. Well, on my person, I was a granddaughter of Einstein and also of the company.
My grandparents used to work for Commerzbank in the credit department, and one of my grandmothers was also working in the stock exchange. My own training was done in Deutsche Bank, New York, and later on at Deutsche Bank, Frankfurt. My early passion for money and everything around it, savings account, savings book, was my grandfather to the interest in investments and hard assets, and especially in times of these, this is still very important. Now we see so many crises: the wars in Ukraine, the attack on the State of Israel in October of 2023. This has an influence on the capital markets and also on the gold price, which is quite high because this is a safe haven for investors in addition to real estate.
I accept this with gratitude that we are living in peace, at least in Europe, and with gratitude and with joy. I also see that we are striving for... That we can still strive for our good life. I have two questions: a specific one and one more general one. Mr. Christian Sewing, I had the pleasure and honor to meet you at the end of last November at the European Banking Congress, and I would like to now ask a specific question to you as a customer of Deutsche Bank, and especially of Deutsche Bank am Rossmarkt 18. I know that for data security reasons, this is sometimes different, but the Deutsche Bank at Rossmarkt 18 is one of the few flagship brands which offers a safe deposit, and town was-- And now I know whether...
I want to know whether a member of the board of management, in addition to the communication with internal bodies, in exchange with these bodies, whether a member of the board of management have ever gone to the flagship branch in order to have an exchange with the employees and the customers on site? My father, who has already died, but he was quality assurance manager for Hoechst, and he also had his own management consulting, and he always said that it's important to have good communication. The best communication is always to have both parties communicating and having a proper dialogue. So it's a two-way communication that he always focused on. So my question now to Mr. Sewing or to Mr. de Sanctis or whoever is responsible, dear Mr.
James von Moltke, as the Vice Chairman of the Board of Management and the Chief Financial Officer, has anyone of you ever went to the flagship branch at Rossmarkt, as it used to be done by Mr. Jürgen Fitschen? And I would like to know when you went there, with date and time, and if not, do you plan to go there quite soon and to have a good exchange with your very best resources, your employees and the customers, and to deepen the dialogue? And now the general questions. The closure of branch offices, and this is something that I discussed last year in June, on the thirtieth of June, with a representative of the board of management of Commerzbank, and now I will quote him.
He said that from a European perspective, the bank branches in the Federal Republic of Germany are quite numerous. We also discussed it with the Hessian Minister of the Interior and several politicians in Frankfurt, in the city council, and there were a lot of discussions because... Well, in the past we had many branches of banks. It was always around the corner, but now it's getting difficult to find the branches of Deutsche Bank, and this is happening at the national level, and this is a big challenge. And Mr. Sewing, you mentioned the Global Hausbank and the services have to be provided, and you also have to make sure that there is enough cash available.
How do you want to guarantee this, over and beyond the general group strategy in view of the changes in the capital markets, also knowing that the difficult background conditions and the problems with the ECB license still make it difficult to achieve your goals, but also knowing that the four core business areas and your committed performance-oriented employees are here for us 365 days a year. Of course, there is some criticism regarding complaints management and consulting, but I know Deutsche Bank from my time at Deutsche Bank, and I really know that the employees are doing their very best every single day in order to provide answers quickly to the customers, and I trust that this will also happen in the future. So this was about cash, currency. And the capital markets are still difficult.
Regarding the passion and the commitment of all the employees, I am deeply convinced of the fact that this will be ensured for the future as well. I am now looking forward to your to your answers. The Global Hausbank, of course, acts with in a good manner to reach its goals, and I wish you the best for 2024 and 2025, but I would like to get answers to my specific and my general question, and I would like to end. Thank you very much for your time.
Thank you very much, Mrs. Stahl. Then we now have Karl-Walter Freitag from the Riebeck Brewery, followed by Daniel Michael Werner and Matthias Gäbler. Mr. Freitag, you have the floor.
My name is Karl Walter.
Oh, I'm sorry, Karl-Walter Freitag. Yes, I'm sorry....
focusing on the quality of the written answers to the pre-submitted questions. Well, I could have saved that effort because they have been answered in a somewhat disguising manner. And that is why I'm asking you, or I'm asking the notary public, to ensure that all questions that I have submitted in-- on my own behalf and on behalf of the shareholders I represent, be taken into the minutes, plus the relevant answers. Sorry, there are sound issues here. Unfortunately, we cannot hear the speaker very well. Okay, so please make sure that everything will be noted down in minutes. I was actually making sure and trying to do my best to ask Mr. Freitag. Unfortunately, says Norbert Winkeljohann, we can't see you any longer. Can you perhaps redial in? Maybe leave...
Can you hear me? Yes, but we cannot hear you very well. The sound quality is very poor, so we may have to redial. Okay, in that case, I will briefly leave the session and redial in. Perhaps another speaker can go first and then...
Yes, okay. That's what we'll do, and we'll take you afterwards. Okay, thank you. Okay, we will interrupt for a number of minutes until Mr. Freitag has dialed back in. Okay, so I think we can continue. Mr. Freitag, can you hear us?
Yes, I can hear you.
Okay. Mr. Freitag, can you hear us? We can continue. Yes. Yes, we can ask you to bear with us because we had a technical problem. Yes, that is possible. Okay, we will continue, and the floor is all yours. Just to point this out, you had a technical problem. Well, I don't know where the technical problem was. There was a technical problem, to put it in neutral terms. I can't tell at this point where the problem was.
Okay, you can never say where your problems are, but I can. In any case, it's not the first time we're having a communication problem with you in the run-up to the AGM. On behalf of the shareholder I represent, I wanted to submit questions on Sunday evening. After a few minutes, the account was blocked, and I was told to please contact the support. I then contacted the support, but there was a mailbox that answering, which said the AGM had already been completed, had already been over. So much with regards to your technical perfection. So it didn't work out.
I had to submit my questions through other shareholders, and in your answer to my question in this respect, you said, well, according to the current state of play, the service provider cannot find any mistake, or any error in the portal, and presumes that the user has made a mistake. But I'm talking from the same laptop that you blocked last Sunday, and it was you that blocked it, and it seems to be working now without any problem. Let me point out that this is not the only error that occurred in the framework of this AGM. Please allow me to tell you more about this in the framework of the speaking time allotted to me here. I would like to draw your attention to these errors. Only 5 of 11 documents could be clicked on all other...
In all other cases, I got a message, "Page not found," when I wanted to click on some of the documents for the AGM, and this was today at 10:30 A.M., and I documented all of this by video recording. This failed as well, just as my communication on Sunday failed. Don't tell us that we're just too stupid to use your shareholder portal, and that you did everything correctly, and that the shareholders are so stupid, so they can't even handle a computer. This is what you're implying with your weird response to my question. I've been told to start from scratch in terms of my contribution. That is what your technician told me. No, you don't have to. It's up to you, says Norbert Winkeljohann. Okay, I will summarize things, if I may.
I was saying that your questions, or the questions raised by me and answered through your portal, were not or not completely answered, and maybe also answered in a somewhat distorting or, or concealing manner. So all the questions were asked in my property as a shareholder representative and were addressed to you on Sunday evening...
There's another technical problem. The speaker is frozen on the screen. Sound is back. Okay, I'm extremely disappointed by all of that. So I was trying to intellectually adjust my questions to Deutsche Bank, and... Well, you're not very sophisticated and demanding in terms of, your intellectual, the intellectual dimension of your answers. So I presume that... Sorry, there's no sound. Sound is back. So that does not seem to be the case.
You will now be given an opportunity to make up for the answers you did not properly or not fully, submit, and I don't think I need to tell you more about that, so please submit full and complete answers now.
Well, regarding the provision, if you had formed a provision in last year's financial statements, the EUR 1.3 billion provision, we wouldn't have had to have a special audit under Section 258 of the German Stock Corporation Act. Not answering this question, the question that I raised with regard to the EUR 1.3 billion provision, may be an indication of a need for a special audit or an application for a special audit under Section 258 of the German Stock Corporation Act. I should have the requisite number of shares to apply for such a special audit.
I've had these, held these shares for far too long, in fact. As always, we've heard the speech from the CEO. You've now devised, invented a new advertising brand or claim you are now the Global Hausbank. However, Global Hausbank also means that you are taking global risks. And I'm not sure whether the bank is in a position at this point to accept any global risks around the world. Ivory Coast was mentioned in your presentation, which seems to be very important. Yes, of course, if you want to be a global player... Well, I don't know whether the bank is actually well-positioned to really assume and handle global risks.... you had, two expert opinions prepared, and this is what you said in the, in your replies.
And if I noted things down correctly, you said that it was more likely than not that the bank would not need to form a provision because the payment was highly unlikely. But I have to show the upper regional court that they had to look into the matter once again and continue the investigations. And the court ruling is very clear: everyone can form their own opinions and can see for themselves what Deutsche Bank and its paid advisors derived with regards to a potential process and litigation risk, which they consider to be highly unlikely.
You have some of the biggest and best and most renowned law firms in the world, well, both in Germany and in the world, they are all part of global networks these days, and these law firms were permanently working on behalf of Deutsche Bank at the time. In the light of that, it is surprising to see that you fell subject to an error made by your law firms.
I think your lawyers knew exactly what was in the pipeline based on your documents, based on the witness statements, you knew exactly what was ahead, and therefore, it is completely incomprehensible, and it is ridiculous if you now say, "well, we didn't know anything, and one day after our sensational quarterly results and this, this evil court comes along and creates a loss of EUR 1.3 billion for us." This is all highly unlikely. Ladies and gentlemen, read the German Supreme Court's ruling, and then you will see what Deutsche Bank knew at the time. And I can only say that there are certain issues that clearly lead to an entitlement on behalf of the shareholders to get these payments made. Of course, I'd like to know who it was that prepared these expert reports on your behalf.
So if you could also give us the names of the authors of these two expert reports, and in particular, I'd like to know whether these are persons that, for example, was involved in your court proceedings in front of the Higher Regional Court, and I would like to see the wording of the declaration of the statement that the board made to the auditor, where they waived a provision. And I would like, also like to know whether... Well, what the conclusion from these audits, from these, expert reports were. Normally, the final sentence in an expert's report is some sort of a conclusion, at least that is typical for an expert's report. At the end, there's two or three sentences with conclusions, and I'd like you to explain these last two, three sentences to me, the conclusion with regard to, non-formation of a provision.
Does this expressis verbis say that it is more likely than not that the Postbank case will not lead to a process risk with the corresponding requirement for a need for a, for formation of a provision? In general, the Postbank case is very weird. It's really a unique case. We've heard two separate, two totally different CEO speeches. In version one, there's been a version one, and there's been a version two, if you like, that's been around on the internet since this morning, and you have, a new, label, new speech saving. You had an old version that you published before, and that was available on Sunday, old speech, and now there's a new speech.
Of course, I was unable, in the brevity of time, to check the two versions and compare them, and at least I took a note, a look at these two versions regarding the Postbank, the Postbank case. And here in version one, you say, and I quote, "We continue to be convinced that Deutsche Bank, prior to the entering into force of the purchase agreement and prior to the release of the purchase agreement approval by BaFin, did not yet have control over Postbank." And in version two, you say, "We continue to be of the opinion..." Before you said, "We continue to be convinced," but now you say, "We continue to be of the opinion," that an opinion is not a conviction. And this is really weird. This is very special.
So all of a sudden, the sky is full of board speeches and CEO speeches. And when Mr. Sewing read out the passage relating to the Postbank, I was watching his face, and he looked like a hostage victim. And if the court ruling that may now happen might become legally effective, this would impact Germany as a site for your sector, from what you said. I think it's certainly inappropriate for Mr. Sewing to now say that he's got every right to tell the economy or the experts, or to tell the courts what's right and what's wrong in a patronizing manner. Please stop doing that, Mr. Sewing. Now, which version is valid? Which of the two? Are you now convinced or are you of the opinion? Because having an opinion is a much weaker wording. And who told you to change that, Mr. Sewing?
Who told you? Well, I wasn't checking the rest of the speech. There may have been lots of other changes in version two, I don't know, but I checked this point, and this is what struck me. So who told you, and why did they tell you to change the first version of your speech? In my view, later on, then you say that you are of the opinion, so the word opinion crops up again. But this is unprofessional. Yes, of course, it fits in with this system where you can throw shareholders out of the portal.
Mr. Freitag, Mr. Freitag, can you come to a close, perhaps? You've been speaking for 15 minutes already.
Yes, I will ask for the floor again, then, in that case. Okay, then that's what we do. Okay, thank you.
Okay, I will reapply for the floor.
Okay, then. Thank you.
So much for this, the questions by Mr. Freitag. Next, Mr. Werner, then Mr. Gäbler, and then Mr. Gil Besthier. Mr. Werner, you've got the floor.
Yes, thank you for providing me the opportunity to ask a follow-up question. I've got another question regarding the format of the AGM. You've now told us about the first numbers for today. It's less than 300, so it's two-thirds fewer than last year. Well, to be honest, to me, this is like a really sad story, a revelation. It's a really sad thing. So what is your view? How do you assess today's AGM? Do you really think that you have managed to achieve book-based shareholder participation with this virtual format? In my view, this is more like a clothes shop. I think we are a small group, with Mr. Gäbler and co, a small number of unwavering shareholders who keep telling you off.
Well, very briefly, regarding your reply on page 78 on the AGM, you're saying that in planning next year's AGM, and I quote, "We will also take into account the assessment of key shareholders." I would like to know what a key shareholder is. What is an essential shareholder for you? Does this relate to the number of shares held by an investor, or would this only be institutional investors that you would be asking? So what is it that you're referring to? How should I understand this term? Next, well, there's another question that I forgot to mention, and that had not yet been answered in the run-up to the AGM. I was asking about the opportunities and risks of automated securities transactions. Do you see a risk, or is there a risk already, whereby stock exchange processes controlled by AI are already used?
Do you see any risk of this running havoc, as it were, and where you could have disastrous effects as no human is involved any longer? Next, regarding the strategic guidance of Mr. Sewing, I was actually waiting for a commitment to the private bank and clients with small and medium-sized incomes. So what is Deutsche Bank's view regarding this analog business, which, of course, is more cost intensive, and of course, it might still do Deutsche Bank quite good in terms of its reputation? Because, of course, these are people who may have problems with IT, for example. There might be clients that they don't have a strong affinity with IT and technology, but nevertheless, they still have to carry out their monetary transactions in some way or other within this society.
So here, a clear commitment from you would be good to have. And finally, I don't really want to tell you off. I mean, I've invested my money in your bank. I want to place my trust in you. Of course, that saves me a lot of sleepless nights as well. But this event today is certainly not a North Star when it comes to confidence building. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Werner. Next, we have Matthias Gäbler once again, followed by Mr Besthier, and then afterwards, once again, Annette Stahl. Mr. Gäbler, the floor is all yours.
Mr. Winkeljohann, thank you very much. First of all, a comment regarding the previous speaker, but key shareholders, well, won't be you or me, I can tell you right away. Right away, you don't need to ask the board, you know, the board won't have to answer that. We will not be key shareholders. I think it's a very strange answer because you are a publicly listed company, and honestly, it's weird to see that. Normally, you have an AGM with 4,000 participants, and here it's fewer than 300. It's fewer than in a small listed company, so it's really not worth the effort.
Why am I asking for the floor again, Mr. Winkeljohann? I don't understand why you're in such a hurry. Before 2:00 P.M., you announced that you were going to close the list of speakers. There's no reason for that. To give you an example, my first presentation contained a number of questions, and virtually none of these questions have been answered yet.
And, I'm sure there will be answers, but as long as I don't know the answers yet, I still have to reserve the right to ask more questions. And so there's no point closing the list of speakers at this point. Last week, the Hannover Rück had its AGM, a boring company, not a lot to criticize there. And they had an AGM, and it took until shortly before six, and then they answered every single shareholder question. I don't know why you're under such a time pressure. Well, before two o'clock, you were intending to close the list of speakers. Have you already booked your dinner somewhere? I mean, there's no need, there's no point. And then we had a break of 10 minutes, which was a waste of time.
Well, of course, I could have used that time to call the Postbank hotline, but of course, it wouldn't normally suffice. It would... I would still be in the waiting loop, I'm sure. In any case, I'm just telling you, I will reserve the right to follow up with more questions. You can close the list of speakers for speakers who are asking for the floor for the first time, if you want, but I don't think I'm the only one to have this view, because some of my co-shareholders have also complained about the unnecessary inefficiency. And well, I was saying, well, either the customer support will get back to me, and in that case, I would then be able to discuss the inefficiencies with you on a one-to-one basis, every single case.
But it's really, it's really, frustrating and, well, if it takes more than five months to get things sorted out. And actually, I've got a current account in Postbank, so I don't see why it takes months for me to open an account in Deutsche. So please, don't misunderstand me. I'll wait for the answers to my question, then I'll see whether I will reapply for the floor. Well, actually, I hope that... Or my question is, is it also possible to download and save the answers somewhere and also in a format that you can work on? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Gäbler. We don't have any dissenters because we are planning to have another big round of answers, and I'm sure and I hope that your questions will then also be answered. Next, Gil Besthier, next speaker, and afterwards, Carola Annette Stahl. Mr. Besthier, the floor is all yours.
Yes, hello. Norbert Winkeljohann, I'm happy—Hello? Yes, hello.
Yes, we can hear you. Yeah.
Okay, thank you. I can speak now?
Yes, yes, the floor is all yours, and we can hear you, says Norbert Winkeljohann. Thank you.
Thank you very much. First of all, I'd like to thank you for the excellent results you have delivered this year. I'm a passionate Deutsche Bank shareholder. In 2019, I was even mentioned in a number of newspapers because there was a participant in the media landscape who had mentioned me in an article presenting my art, my activities, and so I was mentioned.
I was mentioned in the headline, which read, "The real losers, the real failures are the shareholders." The activities of Professor Achleitner were mentioned back then, and I actually stood up for him and I said, "Well, actually, those that ask these questions and those that say that what he said was wrong should have better read the financial reports, first of all, and then formed probably a different opinion." Well, of course, now, we were then reaching the close of the AGM. There was more than 70% consent, and I was then named—told I was probably the only fan of Mr. Achleitner at the time. And probably most people don't read the financial reports of Deutsche Bank, but probably take their bearings from newspaper articles and secondary sources.
Well, this is what they base their own statements on. Let me make a number of comments. Firstly, Ernst & Young, the auditors, have actually been the best auditors I've seen so far for Deutsche Bank. Why? Well, there's a simple reason. About five years ago, in the workout, there was a problem, and I think this would not have been possible to detect had it not been for Ernst & Young, because the origin of this problem or this error was not to do with the audit of the documents, but non-compliance with disclosure requirements, and this was later then found out. Of course, I would say that if you were to read the financial reports of 1870 Brewery, I think it is actually amazing that you can basically read online all reports for that company for more than 100 years.
So basically, how to put this? Well, it's like a ship caught in the weathers, and there's good moves and there's bad moves, and the whole team has to steer the ship through troubled waters. Sometimes I can read that some people do not agree, when they hear or they do not like the fact that Mr. Sewing no longer seems to be using the canteen or that he should not be taking on board all these difficult tasks. But I personally have said time and again, if somebody is able to to criticize somebody else, they should also put themselves in the shoes of the person they criticize and see what they would be doing if they were in that, their situation.
Based on these points of criticism, I have yet to come across a person who could have said, "Well, I would have done things in a better manner." Because of Wirecard and the Wirecard problems, of course, the Securities Acts and the German legislation also regarding trading have changed. And in terms of the German implementing law, it was found that for financial years from 31st December 2021... Sorry, the speaker is frozen. We cannot hear him any longer. So sound is back. The pace of change leads to a situation where it is simply impossible to follow all these changes, and more than 50% of DAX-listed companies have the same problem. And I would like to ask you to correct that.
The annual report says that the publication of annual reports is no longer done in the Federal Gazette, but in the corporate register, in the register of companies. I've got one more request. If possible, you should avoid a situation in the future where shareholders can ask for and you approve of special audits by special auditors, because actually the special audit then also led to this tragic event in Wirecard, and from that special audit, a special investigation resulted then. This huge event at the time was that the special audit, after it had been completed, of course, had to be presented to the AGM. At the time, the special audit was transformed into a special investigations, which no longer required the consent of the shareholders, and this, in the end, led to the insolvency of Wirecard.
One final comment: I really appreciate Mr. Sewing. I actually admired him when he first spoke to us as CEO in 2019, and even though at the time he was basically the new commander on board, but he didn't really have a lot of experience at the time, so he looked more like a first officer on the ship. But today, given his passion and his passionate description of activities and operations at Deutsche Bank, and given the sovereignty that he has acquired in terms of presenting the success and failure of Deutsche Bank, we can say that he is the clear commander of our ship for the future. Thank you very much. He will be the captain. Thanks a lot, and I hope that all the targets you've set yourselves for the next few years will be met. Thank you.
Thanks a lot, Mr. Besthier. Now before taking another break, we now have got Carola Annette Stahl. Ms. Stahl, the floor is yours.
Yes, the two questions, the specific and the general ones I had have not been answered yet. The capital markets remain difficult with the interest rate reduction in June, and inflation is back on 2.2%. But then, of course, the ECB interest rate is still a critical one. Now, regarding reliability of Deutsche Bank, commitment of all employees all around the year, 24/7. Now, in this regard, I really trust all employees. Now, when I say employees, I always refer to male and female employees, and I also trust the Management Board and Supervisory Board of Deutsche Bank to be able to achieve the Global Hausbank targets through specific and coordinated action.
In this regard, I remain confident that the Global Hausbank will achieve this year's annual targets, and that is the profit for the full year and also for the year 2025 and the years beyond. And I also am confident that the success of the first quarter of this year can be continued. I'm also deeply impressed and enthusiastic about the great appreciation that you have shown for your employees in your address this morning. Yes, and yes, I'm looking forward to that joint program with Bijan Moore next year or in 2025, if that it becomes part of the Deutsche Bank offering. And what I also found very important is the few minutes of silence for deceased employees. So I'm optimistic that all targets of the Global Hausbank and of the group targets can be achieved.
So now... Now, yes, is there-- okay, I might have something more. I ask for... The interpreter, sorry, but this is very confusing contribution. I am in favor of the ratification of the acts of management of the Management Board and Supervisory Board. And you have already detailed the results for the four divisions of the bank, and you also do your very best in terms of reducing costs to achieve the targets. And you also are working hard to achieve the return on investment for all shareholders. I'm deeply grateful for the opportunity to address you today and ask my questions regarding Deutsche Bank's group strategy and group targets, and I'm looking forward to the answers to my questions. And therefore, once again, I mean, sometimes it helps to appreciate... I've got my lucky charms here as well.
Become, as I'm also, an enthusiastic sports athlete, and I also very much like culture. Now, once again, I'm in favor of ratification of the act of management of management and Supervisory Board. Thanks for the confidentiality of the bankers. That's the key for future success and remain fully committed. I thank you very much and wish you all the best in the future.
Well, thank you very much, Ms. Stahl. And with that, we now take a 15-minute break because we still need some time to answer the questions, and we will continue the AGM at 3:20 P.M.
I mean, it's all about listening and asking questions. ... [Foreign language] . We are very personal. We've got a very close relationship. We work and exchange ideas, we tackle difficult situations. [Foreign language] . Hopefully, he can see and feel that I'm looking to build a long-term relationship with him and that I'm not motivated by a 12-month cycle.[Foreign language] Okay. I think when you work with somebody for so long, you know, just like relationships. Transition to friendships, right? So I, I feel like you go like the extra mile for friends. Gary, you know, it's clear to me Gary is doing that for us.
[Foreign language] . No, I think one thing that's very clear is Burkhard is very happy to share his views. I mean, he's not the kind of person who's just going to tell you what is the right thing. [Foreign language] . If I trust someone, I will be loyal. I'm not after the best deal. I'm after feeling, you know, well looked after. [Foreign language] .
You know, hopefully one day it'll be my daughter speaking to Alexis, or maybe speaking to his daughter. [Foreign language] . We don't want you to be in everything. We just want you to be in things where you think you're going to be great, and what you've accomplished is pretty impressive. [Foreign language] Nobody asked the first time we met. Do you remember the first time we met? Mark Flaherty's office. See, I don't even remember that. That's pretty good. Yeah.
I'm convinced that we urgently need a functioning circular economy. In this video, I explain why it is important and also what the financial sector has to do with it. The main benefit of a circular economy is resource conservation. But furthermore, we're also lowering our overall environmental impact by, for example, reducing the emissions that we're producing, but also by using less energy. While we previously just focused on the recycler itself, it will now also include other stakeholders, such as the producer, the user, the recycler itself, but furthermore, financial institutions as well as the government itself. We have to look at the whole life cycle of a product.
That means that the producer of a product has to take the recycling steps into consideration when designing a product, so that the product can be recycled to the highest quality possible, to then be reused at a later stage. That means every single stakeholder of the whole process need to take efficient and necessary steps to achieve the circular economy. Financial institutions can support the change by providing funding to dedicated projects, as well as companies taking circular economy into considerations. The change to a circular economy is a huge task and therefore, appropriate funding is necessary. Since financial institutions are one part of the stakeholders involved in a circular economy, collaboration as well as knowledge sharing is key.
Fashion is trends, and trends are fast. This makes the fast fashion system of take, make, and dispose the dominant business model in the industry, with fatal economic and ecological consequences. Today, fashion is one of the most polluting industries worldwide. We're in Madrid at the headquarters of fashion brand Ecoalf. To tackle the fashion industry's waste problem, they're rewriting the rules. From design to distribution, Ecoalf is shaped by the idea of a circular economy. Their aim is to create a truly sustainable fashion brand.
Well, I think it's essential that we get the fashion industry circular as a whole. For that, first of all, we need the big groups to take it very seriously, no? This is not about doing a capsule collection, which is with sustainable fabric. This is about the business model around the fashion industry. My name is Javier Goyeneche, and I'm the founder of Ecoalf.
The production of fashion today is resource intensive and not sustainable. The industry produces 92 million tons of waste annually, consuming 79 trillion liters of water. The industry must rethink its approach for a livable future.
Waste is only waste if you waste it, but at the end of the day, it has a lot of value, and it's proven, no, that we can take that waste and make a shirt which is exactly, the same in terms of quality, design, et cetera. So I think it's, it's very important that we stop thinking of waste as something which is waste.
Starting small, Ecoalf now has a range of recycled materials you would never suspect were recycled. Usually, in any conventional fashion brand, design team start with the ideas, the mood boards, and then they select the fabrics. But here is different because we don't design, we eco-design. And to work with this kind of eco-design principles and the circular economy, the most important thing is the material. Ecoalf works with plastic waste. They even recycle old tires, coffee, or cotton. But these raw materials often consist of many materials, which makes them. A round 70% of our collection is mono material. That means that, at the end of the life cycle of the garment, they will be very easily recycled.
It's also about being successful as a company. Ecoalf has been profitable since 2021, with a steady growth of 35% per year, continuously expanding internationally. Since starting a flagship store in Berlin in 2017, they have also opened stores in Milan, Tokyo, and Paris.
Well, I've always had very clear that Ecoalf is not an NGO. I think it's very important that companies with, like Ecoalf, which are trying to doing things in a different way, show that it's possible, okay, to do things in a different way, but be as profitable as the best in the industry, no? Because that way, I think you're gonna show the banks, you're gonna show the investors, you're gonna show that it's possible, and that way, I'm sure they're gonna support many more other companies which are fighting to do the things in a different way.
A good example is how Ecoalf recovers raw materials. Their initiative, Upcycling the Oceans, collaborates together with over 4,500 local fishermen. Waste taken out of the sea during fishing is collected and recycled, recycled into new yarns that can get a second life in Ecoalf's fashion. Together, they have built a completely new kind of waste management system.
I think that every decision we take has an impact. People ask you, "Well, hey, how do you envision 2050?" Well, it depends what we do from here to 2050. I mean, if we keep on throwing one truck of 16 tons of waste into the ocean every minute, obviously, the ocean in 2050 is gonna look quite bad. So it's up to us, I think. And in the fashion industry, it's the same. We cannot be working with a bad model of buying, throwing, buying, throwing, a new trend every Thursday, discount promotion, Black Friday. This is creating huge billions of garments into landfill.
In a world hungry for change, Ecoalf proves that sustainability is always in fashion. The world is continuously changing, and so are the needs of our clients. Our founding purpose lives on. For over 150 years, we've been supporting our clients worldwide. We provide financial security, even in times of change and technological progress. The lasting success of our clients is at the center of everything we do. We are there whenever you need us, always available, ready to listen, with dedicated solutions for you. We are your Global Hausbank. Our aim is to always be the first choice for our clients. Leading in Europe, represented in 57 countries around the world, and globally networked, we support and develop digital initiatives and technologies for the world we live in now, tomorrow, and beyond....
Acting sustainably does not just match our understanding of social responsibility, it is the basis for growth in all industries and areas. We stand shoulder to shoulder with you around the world with our treasury, payments, and trade finance solutions and our local expertise. We connect you to the international capital markets and link you with global investors to finance your projects, and we help you manage your risks. We form a solid foundation in the lives of more than 20 million private clients in Europe and the rest of the world, as the first point of contact for all their financial needs. We are at your side with financial advice and the right investment products for every market, globally and locally. Always your reliable partner. Your Global Hausbank.
Ladies and gentlemen, we are ready to continue with our AGM, and we continue with some answers. First, Alexander von zur Müehlen, then Christian Sewing, then James von Moltke, and then Stefan Simon.
Thank you very much. Dear Mr. Kienle, you asked about the comparison of our cost structure to our peers, and you asked what we consider a comparable basis and how we determined this. You also asked as of when and to what extent the investment in qualified managers would pay off. First, your question about the cost structure. The costs reported externally by our peers and those of Deutsche Bank cannot be compared directly. For that reason, we perform internal analysis and also use third-party providers in order to identify the cost of our peers on a normalized basis for our comparison.
Regarding your question about the investment in qualified managers and executives, we can tell you that the investments of last year already show their effect. For example, also thanks to these investments, in the first quarter of this year, we were able to win market shares in the emission and origination advisory business. All in all, we believe that the investment in qualified managers will contribute to achieving the communicated revenue and return targets. The original question can be found under ID 289 in our answer document. Dear Mr. Gäbler, you asked about the ballpark costs for the special auditor, set up by BaFin for Postbank. Until the end of the first quarter, 2024, the cost amounted to EUR 1.3 million. The original answer to your question can be found under ID 239. Dear Mr.
Gäbler, you also asked about the number of private and business current accounts which had been terminated by Postbank and Deutsche Bank. Now, we can tell you that in the reporting year, less than 50,000 private and business accounts were terminated at Deutsche Bank, and you'll find the answer under ID 260. Mr. Gäbler, also, thanks for your follow-up question on the Unity cost of investment. In the year 2023, these amounted to about EUR 300 million. First savings were already achieved to the amount of EUR 186 million. These costs include about EUR 40 million in the second half of the year 2023 for the efforts to support customers, which had not been included in the initial plan. The initial question can be found in answering document under ID 241. Dear Mr. Gäbler-...
You also asked about our Postbank hotline and the possibility for optimization, and here you were referring to your initial question with the ID 243. In the past year, at our call center for Postbank clients, we did have an increased volume of client requests due to the migration. In this context, our capacities at the call centers were expanded significantly, and thus we were able to significantly reduce waiting times. Today, with waiting times, we are again clearly below those times of before the IT migration. At the same time, we continue to optimize our efficiencies, among others, through technical improvements and by using artificial intelligence. The significance of our call centers and remote advisory centers will grow in the future in the context of our overall business strategy in this regard.
Dear Mr. Werner, you asked about our social responsibility regarding the Postbank private client business, and you referred to your initial question with the ID 129. Now, we offer our clients all over Germany, depending on their individual demand and possibilities, we still offer all of them an easy access to our bank services. This includes traditional access via the branches, plus online and mobile banking, as well as the possibility to talk to our advisors via telephone. Furthermore, we support our clients in all financial matters and throughout all of their stages of life. So we also live up to our social responsibility by offering sustainable investment possibilities in our entire product range. And furthermore, we also support a whole range of social projects. Mr. Werner, following your initial question with ID 006, you also asked for improvements in our complaints management.
Now, if in the past, any interaction has taken place which you considered inappropriate, then of course we apologize for this. This is not in line with the way we want to deal with our clients, and we are in regular exchange with our employees in order to create and ensure the necessary awareness and sensitivity which is required for our customer interaction. After today's AGM, we are going to contact you in order to finally conclude that matter. Dear Mr. Werner, you asked about the further development of our branch business, referring to your question with the ID 129.
Now, as we already described in our overall statement of the private bank, including PrivateBank Germany, we continue to want to maintain our countrywide branch network, making sure that customers who are not so happy to use online or mobile banking will still have access to our banking services. Furthermore, we are enhancing our digital offerings due to the increasing demand. Our clients will, of course, also be supported in our branches in order to master the digital transformation. And with that, I hand back to our chair... to Christian.
Thank you very much, Alex. Now, I've got a question to be answered from Ms. Petz. You asked funding of programs in countries with just energy programs. We can reassure you that funding is also linked to criteria when it comes to general corporate financing. The initial question can be found under ID 141. Ms. Petz, you had another question. You asked whether reduction targets can be achieved via offsetting. Now, in addition to all the answers already given, we'd like to add the following: firstly, we expect the definition of interim targets, and we do not consider offsetting an acceptable measure to reduce CO2 emissions, and for the respective criteria, we refer to chapter two of our transition plan.
Our initial statements can be found in our answering document under the heading Sustainability, Possibilities, and Reduction of Fossil Fuels. Ms. Petz, your third question, you asked about the criteria for the transformation plans of oil and gas companies and how Deutsche Bank measures the sustainable transformation of these clients.
In addition to our statement so far, let me once again explain the criteria of our assessment framework for the transformation plans of our clients. Among others, we take into account, number one, the quality of reporting, for example, the frequency or the TCFD alignment. Secondly, the quality of the KPIs and targets, such as the level of ambition and the scope of net zero targets. Thirdly, the quality of the implementation strategy, for example, the specific amounts dedicated for decarbonization. Fourthly, the quality of the related governance, for example, whether there is a responsibility on the Management Board level or corresponding incentive mechanisms. Fifthly, compliance with the industry standards of Deutsche Bank. Our initial statements on this can be found in our document on questions and answers submitted preliminarily under the heading of Sustainability Policies. And with that, it's over to James.
Dear Mr. Kienle, you asked about the amount by which the corporate tax costs would be reduced due to the tax effect of EUR 1 billion in 2023. We answer this: without the positive effect from the adjustment of latent taxes of deferred tax assets of EUR 1 billion, now, without that, our corporate tax in 2023 would have been EUR 1.8 billion, which would have been equivalent to a tax ratio of 32%. Dear Mr. Werner, you asked about our commitment and involvement in external ethics commissions regarding AI. In addition to our answers given under ID 127, I would like to state that at present, we are not members in any external ethics commission related to artificial intelligence.
However, we are actively involved in the discussions, for example, as part of our membership in the Association of Deutsche Bank and with the regulatory authorities. So much for my answers. Stefan, it's over to you now.
Yes, thank you very much. I've got a whole range of questions, and I'm starting with Mr. Werner. Mr. Werner, you asked whether I've changed this year's AGM format compared to last year, especially regarding the in advance submission of questions and regarding follow-up questions to be answered at the AGM. I can tell you that we have chosen the same format as last year, and submission of questions in advance, plus answers given, nothing has been changed compared to last year. Then here we've got a question by Mr. Gäbler. Mr. Gäbler, you asked about the cost for the notary public present here at this year's AGM.
The final costs of the notary public have not been made available to us, but we expect that the cost will be in the range of about EUR 30,000. Then there was another question by you, Mr. Gäbler, namely about the number of lawyers involved in the preparation and running of the AGM, and you wanted to have the breakdown into internal and external lawyers. And also, you asked about the costs for external legal support. And here the answer is that we do not record how many lawyers or legal experts are involved in preparing the AGM, but I can tell you that today, 12 lawyers of our legal department are working in the back office to support the Management Board and the Supervisory Board.
In addition, there's an external lawyer from the Linklaters law firm, who has been supporting the company for many years, and he's also in our back office today. We expect that the overall cost of the Linklaters law firm to support the AGM is in the middle five-digit EUR range. Another question by you, Mr. Gäbler, namely, whether and why individual shareholders were not granted access to register for the shareholder portal. Now, I can tell you that no shareholder was denied access to register. All shareholders in advance received the necessary information to register for the AGM in due time. Now, we know about two cases where shareholders reported on technical issues. Only one of these cases referred to the process of registering for the AGM. The other case referred to the submission of questions in advance.
Now, in the context of our AGM, several thousand shareholders successfully used the shareholders portal, and according to our IT service provider, there were no issues of the kind that you described. Furthermore, I also, once again, would like to refer you to the answer to question 305. I've got an answer here, for a question asked by you, Mr. Freitag. You had asked for the two or three final sentences of the legal opinions regarding the court ruling and the question of the probability of success, and you wanted to hear these sentences verbatim. Now, dear Mr. Freitag, considering the fact that you have an own economic interest in the outcome of the Postbank proceedings, we will, in order to protect the company, adapt our answers to that circumstance.
Against that background, I'm not gonna read out that summary to you verbatim, but I can tell you that both law firms independently concluded that after the court ruling, the probability of the bank winning is—was viewed as more than 50%. These have been my answers.
Thank you very much. I guess we still have some remaining or pending questions, but we will first of all continue with the three remaining speakers. Karl Walter Freitag, Michael Schmidt, and Matthias Gäbler are still on the list of speakers. Karl Walter Freitag. Mr. Freitag, the floor is all yours.
Okay, referring to your last statement, Mr. Simon, I would like to this question to be taken note of, to be written down, and might be make it more simple and reduce it even more. So the question is, when it comes to the expert opinions. I mean, I'd asked about the expert opinions, the law firms, and those who wrote the expert opinions. Now, on the basis of the expert opinions, are there also in-house expert opinions of Deutsche Bank? And with these expert opinions, is it so that—I mean, this has to be tangible. There have to be arguments, right? It, it has to be tangible. Is there a certain percentage of likelihood with which you will be successful in court? Is there any indication?
Is there any indication? I mean, you said the likelihood to be successful in court is higher than the likelihood to not to be successful. What is the rationale for this? I mean, there are actions, law, lawsuits, for example, that are where there is not even a little likelihood that it's won, but we have 346 plaintiffs and 46 actions. So we, 384 plaintiff, 46 complaints or law cases suits. Is this all? Or are these just the cases where you assume that the likelihood that they will prevail is, that it's more likely than not? Also, I'd like to point out a misinformation by you, Mr. Sewing.
As far as I understood, and the same is true for Mr, for Mr. Simon, you repeated this, that when it comes to the plaintiffs, you contacted them again in order to find out as to whether there is solution. I called three plaintiffs of the OLG, the High Regional Court lawsuit, and all of them confirmed to me that at no point whatsoever had they been contacted by Deutsche Bank. Now, with an eye to that, I would like to ask you to explain to me as to whether it was just some exclusive parties that you contacted with, or do you have to restrict your information to a certain number of plaintiffs you got in contact with? If that is the case, I'd like to know how many of them you got in contact with. This is just one thing I wanted to add.
I mean, and then it was repeated several times that you have risks under control always. I think this is an evident, evidently wrong statement. This is... I mean, the billion of provisioning that is necessary in the Postbank, actually, it feels like a Leo Kirch case 2.0. Because, I mean, I mean, 14 years ago, there were the first indications of things going wrong, and you did not see it necessary, you know, to act then, but you waited until the house was on fire, no? So telling us that you have your risks under control at all times, if you say so, it would mean that you, that you become aware of them at an early point of time, and that you act then and contain them. Also, you mentioned that you're a first-class risk management.
I mean, this is certainly not the case. This is certainly not the case. And, I mean, this is not the first AGM where I'm speaking. I've been a very loyal shareholder of this company for many years. But again, I mean, you're doing the same things... You've been doing the same thing since the ages of Mr. Ackermann. You're wiggling around giving concrete answers. You will not be successful, but you can continue to try. And then the question: in 2023, did you give any donations to political parties? If yes, to which political parties, and, what were the amounts? Or did you give donations to somehow, organizations affiliated with, political parties? And then there is something I would like to, mention, when it comes to your question and answers policy, you know, or politics.
I just want to take two questions, tell you why they're important, and tell you how you wiggled around giving an answer. Just two examples, and tell you where your deficits are when it comes to communication with shareholders. I asked, and I read it out: "Hi, how high are the professional insurance sums of the legal counsel that when it comes to the takeover of Postbank back then? I mean, you have lawyers in the back office, and all the answers that they give is just rubbish! Total rubbish. Because you really say that all lawyers have insurances according to the limits that is given by legal requirements. Do you have any idea how high that is?
It's EUR 250,000 per lawyer and case, and we're talking about a billion, EUR 1.3 billion. It's a risk, and in your answer, you point to an insurance, to a liability insurance in the amount of EUR 20,000-EUR 50,000. I mean, you're taking the mickey out of the shareholders. I mean, I'm sorry. I mean, how, how can you say you control your risk if, if this is the answer that you give me to this very relevant question? I mean, it's obvious and evident that I have to know that, for example, if you were misadvised back then, could you get any money from your lawyers who perhaps gave you wrong advice from their liability insurance that could cover at least some of the EUR 1.3 billion?
You know, if they gave you a bad advice, if they counseled you wrongly, they have responsibility for the damage that will most probably be done. Just to give you one example of your miscommunication. Or at another juncture, I asked you 64, 64, 25. I mean, the share price, the difference of the share price. You know, I think you gave us the difference of the share price, and I ask you to inform us about the risk from those two hearings. We said a potential payback of the Postbank shareholders who don't have the same legal, they don't have the same legal status as in the current, an impact on the two pending cases or pre-cases.
I just ask you to give us an example to extrapolate for the worst case, you know? But, you know, I mean, you saw no risk up until you were confronted with this in a hearing where you come out and said, "Oh, goodness gracious!" You know, I mean, "We would have never thought that this come to pass, and also our advisors would have never thought that we could lose this case in front of the Higher Regional Court." I mean, you just... It's just like whistling in the dark, you know. You run through this dark forest, and you never see anything, and then you're all surprised, you know? The answers that you give are completely irrelevant. It doesn't answer this question.
And I just did a. I just tried to do shares, and about 20 million shares that are the subject matter of the litigation. I don't know. I'm just assuming things because you don't want to give me answers. Mr. Freitag, can you come to the end of your question? It's 10 minutes. Yes, I will take another three minutes. Yeah, and come to the end. Yeah, I mean, you spoke enough, also a lot of superfluous stuff, you know, so even if you don't like the questions, please listen to me. Right. So is this correct? The risk would then lead to a risk of about EUR 500 million from the two pending law cases. So 27.8 million shares. There is no action filed on their behalf, right?
For those who waived their claim, who didn't look through your, your shenanigans, you know, it's EUR 1.7 billion that they did not get through to, casting a veil over the eyes of shareholders. So congratulations on that, right? So then question: You say that the current Management Board in 2002, 2008, 2009, was not involved in the conclusion of the Postbank agreements, so that the risk, the worst-case risk, is higher than EUR 500 million. Again. Let me again. You say that the current Management Board was not involved in the conclusion of the Postbank contract in 2008, 2009. This is certainly correct. This is certainly correct when it comes to their function as the Management Board.
However, when it comes to the pending cases, you were responsible for the continuous assessment of the course of these cases, and this has to be taken into consideration, especially as you claimed over and over and over again that your lawyers had all the documents. Could you please clarify this? Also, EUR 70 million of interest per annum. So the one or does this of this year, because you just have to set it up, and this interest of EUR 70 million per annum. What about the different interest rates for different plaintiffs? Is there a range of differing interest rates that could apply here? And then, are there any decisions of the Management Board and Supervisory Board in 2023, and also in the year, in the current year, with regard to the Postbank litigation? When were they taken, if they were taken?
When were they taken, if they were taken? With here. That, that was actually homegrown over the last 14 years.
Right. Mr. Freitag, thank you very much. We will next one will be Mr. Michael Schmidt, and then Mr. Gäbler. Mr. Schmidt, the floor is all yours.
Good afternoon, gentlemen. I'm not as well prepared as I should be. Why is that? I had asked a question, and I just saw that it was just answered. Just briefly, personally speaking, I'm very happy about development of the company under the leadership of Mr. Sewing. And I just want to briefly repeat the question: How does Deutsche Bank protect its customers against illegal pledging or seizures? Unfortunately, I got a standardized answer, but I just saw this now. Background: in Germany, every year, 4.7 million pledges are being declared.
Authorities are completely overtaxed, which actually is in favor of the misuse. Pledging below EUR 10,000 just make no sense, so it's only self-employed and companies that are affected because these are the only people where you can have a pledge on assets, you know? I would like to see a support of... from the bank, because a policeman will never actually go after a tax officer. So I think it is not sufficient to retract to the position of a third-party creditor. That with money, attachment pledges, et cetera, that I forwarded to the police, that positions of power are being misused here. So my question, it might sound pragmatic, but is there any way that Deutsche Bank, which is only one of many banks, could...
or many banks that the damage to me personally could provide support when it comes to garnishments or seizures? Thank you very much.
Thank you very much, Mr. Schmidt. And the next would be Mr. Gäbler, and then Mr. Werner again. Mr. Gäbler, the floor is all yours.
Thank you very much, Mr. Winkeljohann, and hello again. I know that answers will still be coming, and I do not want to repeat myself, but I would like to come to my questions number 34- 45, and you say that this will be settled outside of the AGM. Are you really interested in this? Who will then contact me after the AGM, and when? Will they contact me in the next four weeks, eight weeks? I would like to have an answer. And now my question 35: and why can you- why is it not possible to have the business account again with Deutsche Bank under AG, GmbH, KG, and so others? Isn't this a form of discrimination if a possible business relationship is excluded just on the basis of the form of business? And on...
In your catalog, you are answering my question, and I would like to quote: "When we do not exclude any legal form when accounts are opened," end of quote. And now, it's not about the big amounts, as Mr. Freitag just mentioned. That's probably more important to you, but is this really possible? Mr. Winkeljohann, you had 15 minutes break, and you know me, Mr. Winkeljohann. I am very spontaneous, and I called the business department of Postbank, and I wanted to open an account, and after eight minutes, actually, I had a person on the phone, so a big praise. A lot has improved. I could contact a person, but now thumbs down again. Here, the employee confirmed to me, after talking to somebody else, that for AGs, it is not possible to get a current account for the business any longer.
And so the question arises: Is your written answer given to my question now a blatant lie? Was the employee wrong? So what is true? I still am angry about these huge inefficiencies, and so, Mr. Winkeljohann, I really would like to ask you how good and competent you are as a chairman of the meeting, and I—we will probably have further breaks, breaks for counting the votes, and we could bridge them by either you or somebody else, a cameraman, a technician... calls the business client service and asks for, the current account as an AG or GmbH or what have you, in order to see what happens. Otherwise, you might just say, "No, the employee was wrong." No, I think this is a systematic approach, and, this doesn't cost a lot of time.
You can do this in the break when we are counting the votes. You, as the chairman of the meeting, can do this, and I would be happy if you were willing to go this path and show me that a virtual AGM can also have some live effects. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Gäbler. And now we have Mr. Michael Werner on the speakers list. You have the floor.
Yes, thank you very much again for giving me the opportunity to talk for a third time. Just very quickly, please help me. You said earlier on that regarding the pre-submitted questions, there were no changes compared to last year. And last year, if I remember correctly, you could only ask follow-up questions on the questions that had been submitted previously.
All the other questions were not answered, and this year I had the impression that this is not the case. I just read out what we saw in the invitation: "Please send us your questions prior to the AGM until Sunday, the twelfth of May, and the answers will then be provided on our website by Tuesday. Contributions in sound and audio quality can then also be possible, and you can use your right to question based on the current legal situation." So from my point of view, this does not say that these contributions and statements only refer to the previously submitted questions. So where do you find this? Or is this hidden somewhere in some section of the stockholders' legislation ? Just tell me where I can find it, that it's really true, that you can only ask follow-up questions to questions that have already been submitted.
And secondly, a more atmospheric question: What is your feeling now towards the end of this virtual meeting? The Board of Management, Supervisory Board, are you relieved, are you disappointed, or are you somewhere in between regarding the praise and regarding the attendance and the whole course? And I would like to thank you, and I would like to praise the employees. They were really very friendly. It was great. So a positive note at the end. So insofar, I don't have any complaints about the staff handling these questions. Thank you very much, and have a good day.
Okay, thank you very much, Mr. Werner. This is the end of this block of questions, and we can now answer some of the questions. Who will start? Alex von zur Müehlen. Okay, and then we will continue after that.
Yes, Mrs. Stahl, you asked about a planned visit of the members of the Board of Management in the branch office Rossmarkt 18. Our answer is as follows: The Board of Management is in continuous contact with customers and employees in branches on site. The plans for the coming month has not been completed, and the question can be found under the ID 309. Okay, Mr. Nordin, you had two questions relating your original question, 073, and you asked about emissions in the context of our capital market engagements. As already said, our Deutsche Bank already internally measures the emissions in the seven high CO2 sectors where we have a reduction goal. An external reporting is something that Deutsche Bank, in line with industrial standards, is aiming at, and we will do this, dependent on the sufficient methods and data.
In addition to our previous answers, we say that regarding the net zero goals, we use the usual market standards, for example, the Net-Zero Banking Alliance. Mrs. Petz, you had a question regarding reduction targets for bonds. As already explained in our answer, Deutsche Bank internally already measures the emissions in the seven high-emission sectors for which an absolute reduction target was defined. Our published net zero goals do not cover any capital market business. The original question is found in our document of questions and answers under the ID 177. And also another answer to a question. Mr. Kieler, you asked about the Numis capital costs and whether this is in line with the historical acquisition costs, or whether these are the written-down costs. For the depreciation of goodwill, the...
We have to assess the cash-generating unit and the equity that is the basis for the equity ratio of the investment bank, including Numis, was reduced by the goodwill. Additionally, as we do for all our business units, the earnings and the cash generation of Numis will no longer be reported separately, and this can be found under the ID 287 in our document. Okay, Stefan.
I have a few questions, and I would like to start with you, Mr. Gäbler. You asked about the possibility of downloading the attendance list or to save the attendance list on your computer. I can tell you that we have not planned for the attendance list to be downloaded or stored on your computer. In the horizontal bar of the attendance list, by clicking on the plus sign, you can change the font size. And then, Mr. Freitag, I would like to now answer some of your questions.
Let me start with your question regarding the lawyers who have provided expert opinions. This is something that we had already included in the written statements and in the written answers. It was Dr. Hans Diekmann from Allen & Overy with a second opinion, and Dr. Hanfland from the Hengeler law firm, and they both gave a statement on the question whether the probability of success of this lawsuit were higher than the probability to lose, so the question whether provisions have to be made. And so there are no clear percentages, but it's only the question whether it was rather likely or rather not likely that the bank will win this litigation.
And then you also asked whether the provision of EUR 1.3 billion referred to all the plaintiffs, and this is also a question that we had answered already, but I can repeat it. The answer is yes. This provision refers to all the pending lawsuits in the context of payments, follow-up payments based on the voluntary takeover offer in 2010. And then you also asked until when the interest rates were taken into account when the provision of EUR 1.3 billion was calculated. This is again a question that we had answered already. This was included up until Q1 2024, or the setting up of the provision in April 2024. A detailed setup of how the compound interest is calculated and put together is something that we will not publish here.
In addition, you asked about the liability insurance of the lawyers at the time in the connection with the Postbank litigation. Here, I can tell you that we will not disclose any details, but the necessary steps were taken by the bank in due time at the time. And then you also asked for the calculation of possible risks of some of the judicial award procedures, and the companies are also part of the judicial award procedures. And here I can tell you that we have not calculated or we will not disclose any calculations of worst case scenarios. And you also asked about which plaintiffs we had contacted before April 2024, and with whom we had talked. There were various parties or representatives of parties. For negotiation reasons and for tactical reasons, as we are in discussions, will not be disclosed here.
But Mr. Freitag, you also know that you also contacted me before in order to find out in how far a settlement might be possible. So you are aware of the fact that some parties, even before April 2024, had started these discussions. And finally, Mr. Freitag, you asked about deviations between different versions of the statements or the speech by Mr. Sewing, especially regarding a paragraph on the Postbank litigation. Here, I can tell you, yes, it is true that the PDF file on the website for the AGM was exchanged in order to remedy some typos, and in the new version, there were slight-some slight adjustments in the wordings, but these were only wordings that were changed. And I can tell you, if the, say, we are of the opinion or we are convinced, well, the message is still the same.
The message is that from the point of view of the board of management, Deutsche Bank, before the share purchase agreement was made and before the transaction was approved, did not have any control of Postbank. These were the answers that I can give at the moment.
Okay, thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. Now, we again have to go for a short break because there are still some open questions. We will now have a break of 20 minutes, and we will then continue the annual general meeting at 4:30 P.M.
... I mean, it's all about listening and asking questions. [Foreign language] . We are very personal. We've got a very close relationship. We work and exchange ideas. We tackle difficult situations. [Foreign language] Hopefully, he can see and feel that I'm looking to build a long-term relationship with him, and that I'm not motivated by a 12-month cycle. [Foreign language] Okay. I think when you work with somebody for so long, you know, just like relationships transition to friendships, right? So I, I feel like you go, like, the extra mile for friends. Gary, you know, it's clear to me Gary's doing that for us.
[Foreign language] . No, I think one thing that's very clear is, Burkhard is very happy to share his views. I mean, he's not the kind of person who's just going to tell you what is the right thing.[Foreign language] k. If I trust someone, I will be loyal. I'm not after the best deal. I'm after feeling, you know, well looked after. That's very [Foreign language]
You know, hopefully one day it'll be my daughter speaking to Alexis, or maybe speaking to his daughter. [Foreign language] . We don't want you to be in everything. We just want you to be in things where you think you're gonna be great. And what you've accomplished is pretty impressive. [Foreign language] Nobody asked the first time we met. Do you remember the first time we met? Mark Flaherty's office. See, I don't even remember that. That's pretty good. Yeah.
I'm convinced that we urgently need a functioning circular economy. In this video, I explain why it is important and also what the financial sector has to do with it. The main benefit of a circular economy is resource conservation. But furthermore, we're also lowering our overall environmental impact by, for example, reducing the emissions that we're producing, but also by using less energy. While we previously just focused on the recycler itself, it will now also include other stakeholders, such as the producer, the user, the recycler itself, but furthermore, financial institutions, as well as the government itself. We have to look at the whole life cycle of a product.
That means that the producer of a product has to take the recycling steps into consideration when designing a product, so that the product can be recycled to the highest quality possible, to then be reused at a later stage. That means every single stakeholder of the whole process need to take efficient and necessary steps to achieve the circular economy. Financial institutions can't considerations. The change to a circular economy is a huge task, and therefore, appropriate funding is necessary.... Since financial institutions are one part of the stakeholders involved in the circular economy, collaboration as well as knowledge sharing is key.
Fashion is trends, and trends are fast. This makes the fast fashion system of take, make, and dispose the dominant business model in the industry, with fatal economic and ecological consequences. Today, fashion is one of the most polluting industries worldwide. We're in Madrid, at the headquarters of fashion brand Ecoalf. To tackle the fashion industry's waste problem, they're rewriting the rules. From design to distribution, Ecoalf is shaped by the idea of a circular economy. Their aim is to create a truly sustainable fashion brand.
Well, I think it's essential that we get the fashion industry circular as a whole. For us, first of all, we need the big groups to take it very seriously, no? This is not about doing a capsule collection, which is sustainable fabric. This is about the business model around the fashion industry. My name is Javier Goyeneche, and I'm the founder of Ecoalf.
The production of fashion today is resource intensive and not sustainable. The industry produces 92 million tons of waste annually, consuming 79 trillion liters of water. The industry must rethink its approach for a livable future.
Waste is only waste if you waste it, but at the end of the day, it has a lot of value, and it's proven, no, that we can take that waste and make a shirt which is exactly the same in terms of quality, design, et cetera. So I think it's, it's very important that we stop thinking of waste as something which is waste.
Starting small, Ecoalf now has a range of recycled materials you would never suspect were recycled. Usually, in any conventional fashion brand, design team start with the ideas, the mood boards, and then they select the fabrics. But here, it's different because we don't design, we eco-design. And, to work with this kind of eco-design principles and, circular economy, the most important thing is the material. Ecoalf works with plastic waste. They even recycle old tires, coffee, or cotton. But these raw materials often consist of many materials, which makes them incredibly difficult to recycle. That is why Ecoalf focuses even more on the future of its own materials.
So if we think in the circular economy, to collect and to recycle the garment could be the, the last step. We are using a lot of mono material. Around 70% of our collection is mono material. That means that at the end of the life cycle of the garment, they will be very easily recycled. It's also about being successful as a company. Ecoalf has been profitable since 2021, with a steady growth of 35% per year, continuously expanding internationally. Since starting a flagship store in Berlin in 2017, they have also opened stores in Milan, Tokyo, and Paris.
Well, I've always had very clear that Ecoalf is not an NGO. I think it's very important that companies like Ecoalf, which are trying to doing things in a different way, show that it's possible, okay, to do things in a different way, but be as profitable as the best in the industry, no? Because that way, I think you're gonna show the banks, you're gonna show the investors, you're gonna show that it's possible. And that way, I'm sure they're gonna support many more other companies which are fighting to do the things in a different way.
A good example is how Ecoalf recovers raw materials. Their initiative, Upcycling the Ocean. Together, they have built a completely new kind of waste management system.
I think that every decision we take has an impact. People ask you, "Hey, how do you envision 2050?" Well, it depends what we do from here to 2050. I mean, if we keep on throwing one truck of 16 tons of waste into the ocean every minute, obviously the ocean in 2050 is gonna look quite bad. So it's up to us, no, I think. And in the fashion industry, it's the same. We cannot be working with a bad model of buying, throwing, buying, throwing, a new trend every Thursday, discount, promotion, Black Friday. This is creating huge billions of garments into landfill.
In a world hungry for change, Ecoalf proves that sustainability is always in fashion.
... The world is continuously changing, and so are the needs of our clients. Our founding purpose lives on. For over 150 years, we've been supporting our clients worldwide. We provide financial security, even in times of change and technological progress. The lasting success of our clients is at the center of everything we do. We are there whenever you need us, always available, ready to listen, with dedicated solutions for you. We are your Global Hausbank. Our aim is to always be the first choice for our clients. Leading in Europe, represented in 57 countries around the world, and globally networked. We support and develop digital initiatives and technologies for the world we live in now, tomorrow, and beyond. Acting sustainably does not just match our understanding of social responsibility, it is the basis for growth in all industries and areas.
We stand shoulder to shoulder with you around the world with our treasury, payments, and trade finance solutions and our local expertise. We connect you to the international capital markets. 30 million private clients in Europe and the rest of the world, as the first point of contact for all their financial needs. We are at your side with financial advice and the right investment products for every market. Globally and locally, always your reliable partner, your Global Hausbank.
I mean, it's all about listening and asking questions. [Foreign language] . We are very personal. We've got a very close relationship. We work and exchange ideas. We tackle difficult situations. [Foreign language] . Hopefully, he can see and feel that I'm looking to build a long-term relationship with him and that I'm not motivated by a 12-month cycle. [Foreign language] O kay. I think when you work with somebody for so long, you know, just like relationships transition to friendships, right? So I feel like you go, like, the extra mile for friends. And Gary, you know, it's clear to me Gary's doing that for us.
[Foreign language] . No, I think one thing that's very clear is, Burkhard is very happy to share his views. I mean, he's not the kind of person who's just, going to tell you what is the right thing. [Foreign language] . If I trust someone, I will be loyal. I'm not after the best deal. I'm after feeling, you know, well looked after. That's very nice. [Foreign language]
You know, hopefully, one day it'll be my daughter speaking to Alexis, or maybe speaking to his daughter. [Foreign language] . We don't want you to be in everything. We just want you to be in things where you think you're going to be great. And what you've accomplished is pretty impressive. [Foreign language] Nobody asked the first time we met. Do you remember the first time we met? Mark Flaherty's office. See, I don't even remember that. That's pretty good. Yeah.
I'm convinced that we urgently need a functioning circular economy. In this video, I explain why it is important and also what the financial sector has to do with it. The main benefit of a circular economy is resource conservation. But furthermore, we're also lowering our overall environmental impact by, for example, reducing the emissions that we're producing, but also by using less energy. While we previously just focused on the recycler itself, it will now also include other stakeholders, such as the producer, the user, the recycler itself, but furthermore, financial institutions, as well as the government itself. We have to look at the whole life cycle of a product.
That means that the producer of a product has to take the recycling steps into consideration when designing a product, so that the product can be recycled to the highest quality possible, to then be reused at a later stage. That means every single stakeholder of the whole process need to take efficient and necessary steps to achieve the circular economy. Financial institutions can support the change by providing funding to dedicated projects, as well as companies taking circular economy into considerations. The change to a circular economy is a huge task, and therefore, appropriate funding is necessary. Since financial institutions are one part of the stakeholders involved in a circular economy, collaboration as well as knowledge sharing is key.
... Ladies and gentlemen, we continue with our AGM. We've got three more requests for the floor that we will take next. However, as the AGM, it has already been progressing for quite some time, and the German corporate governance code for these, for AGMs to last for four to six hours, I would suggest if the list of speakers be closed at ten to five. So we will take the next three speakers. First, we have Mr. Freitag, then Mr. Gäbler, and then Ms. Stahl, once again. Please be brief. Mr. Freitag, the floor is all yours.
Yes, very briefly. I've noticed that in the answers given this far, and no mention was made of a point that I've addressed very specifically. Can you hear me? Sorry, yes, there's been some interruptions.
Yes, however, it's just you, unfortunately. We don't really have any other speakers with the same problem, so it seems to be your-- at your end. We don't know why, but perhaps you, if could be brief, and then we'll get through this. Yes, I can remind you that there was an interruption of several minutes where you were the cause of the problem. No, Mr. Freitag, I'm sorry, this was not our mistake, and the technical problem was not on our side. But please don't continue, so we will not discuss that here.
Okay, so I specifically mentioned a point where... Once again, you, were beating about the bush. That's why I've got three questions, that I will read out to make sure that there are no misunderstandings. Firstly, what are the dates of the expert reports by Hengeler, by Mr. Hanfland and Allen & Overy, prepared by Dr. Diekmann?
When it was decided that the provision for Postbank, formed in April of this year, not be included in the consolidated financial statement. Secondly, can you rule out the fact that these expert opinions are from prior years? And if so, please give me the year in which these expert reports were prepared. Thirdly, I've got one more question, and then I will be finished. My question relates to an answer given by Dr. Simon, which unfortunately, I was not able to note down that quickly. When he said: "Yes, yes, well, liability claims in 2008," I think that's what he said, "we initiated all the necessary measures back then." So my specific question is: Are there any liability claims that you have asserted, firstly, vis-à-vis any insurance companies, secondly, vis-à-vis any lawyers? Yes or no?
In parentheses, I'm not interested in the names, and I'm not interested in the amounts asserted of. Don't beat about the bushes yet again. Please answer the questions as specifically as they have been raised. Any non-answer will reduce my willingness not to apply for a special audit that in mind in terms of determining the quality of your replies. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Freitag. Next, we have Mr. Gäbler, and please be brief. Mr. Gäbler, the floor is yours.
Yes, I will be brief, Mr. Winkeljohann. You can imagine what I've used this break for, the call to the business client hotline. I was trying to open an account for an association. After 13 minutes, I was linked with a colleague, and I was given the same answer: It is not possible to open an account for an, for a registered association.
So for the first time attempt, you could have said: "Okay, your staff member made some mistake," and I was suggesting you should be using the break to call there yourself. I think it's a discrimination against certain associations with a certain legal format or legal character. I mean, I'm really upset given that I've been given a wrong answer and that I've been discriminated against, and I would like to know where I can possibly complain if I'm not happy with the answer. That's also what I asked the lady at the other end, and she then said, "Okay, you can complain to our parents." And I said, "Yes, that's what I'm going to do because I'm attending the AGM." And Mr.
Sewing, what I have experienced in this break is something I've never gone through before, and I think we should follow up on this in bilateral dialogue afterwards, because I, I just think it's not okay. And okay, back to you, Mr. Winkeljohann.
Thank you, Mr. Gäbler. Thank you for this comment. We will check on it. And next, we have Ms. Stahl as the last speaker. Please be brief, Ms. Stahl.
Very briefly. I've got a specific question. I've got a question of Mr. von zur Müehlen and, and Mr. Winkeljohann? No, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Was my general question answered or will I find it in writing under ID 399? I'm not sure regarding the dilution. Well, and last comment I was going to make refers to the Global Hausbank and long-standing customer relationships in favor of the a ratification.
Thank you for your for handling things this discreetly. I wish you all the best. I wish you every success. I hope you will continue with the same level of commitment and passion. These are my closing comments.
Thank you, Ms. Stahl. Yes, these were the closing comments. The list of speakers has been closed, and this means we can turn to the answers to the questions still outstanding. I'd like to suggest that Stefan Simon should go first.
Yes, I'm happy to. I will start with Mr. Werner. Mr. Werner, you were asking about what we meant in saying that after this AGM, we were going to discuss the pros and cons of the virtual AGM format format chosen for this AGM and the pre-submission of question.
So the pros and cons that we were going to evaluate, and we said we were also going to get the feedback from key shareholders and what we understood by key. Mr. Werner, we have not yet been able to finalize our discussions and considerations of what we mean by this term, but it will certainly involve a quantitative element. So it will definitely relate to shareholders with a higher number of shares, who, of course, have a strong weight. But of course, every feedback from every single shareholder, even small shareholders, will be included in our considerations, and we will take these comments into account. Mr. Werner, you asked about how what we think of the involvement of shareholders at today's AGM, given that we had a maximum of 399 shareholders logged into the portal or joining us.
Well, this number may be a bit confusing, because on top of that, there is a substantially higher number of viewers and observers in public streams, both shareholders as well as non-shareholders who are following the AGM. And here we had more than 4,000 participants and or observers, and this also, it's more or less equivalent with last year's number. Moreover, 48% of the capital are represented at this AGM. Last year, we had about 43% of our capital stock represented at the AGM, so this is an increase of around 5 percentage points. And compared with the last in-person AGM, pre-COVID in 2019, at that time, we had a share of 35% of the capital stock represented at the AGM, so a significant increase from 35%-48% since then.
Mr. Freitag, concerning some of the other questions you've raised. Well, first of all, you asked about the dates of the legal opinions from Hengeler and Allen & Overy. I don't have the exact numbers here or the exact dates, but they date back to Q1 2023, because they were obtained after the ruling of the Federal Supreme Court, because they deal with the question as to whether a form-- a provision must not yet be formed at that point, or whether provisions have to be formed and in the follow-up to the Supreme Court ruling. So this answers your questions one and two. You also asked whether the bank has asserted any claims against former lawyers or advisors. You will know that asserting is not a legal term, Mr. Freitag. I would suggest that this term not be used in this context.
I would say, well, the bank has reserved the right to assert any potential claims against former consultants and advisors. So much for my answers.
Thank you, Stefan. James, next.
I've got a question from Mr. Gäbler. You asked whether and when we may be able to follow up on your question regarding opening of an account. A management person from the advisory center will get in touch with you in the next few days. Alex? Mr. Schmidt, regarding question 125, you're asking us for your support with regard to your garnishment topic. Well, we will need some additional detailed information from you. Please call us under 069 9610 12300. Thank you. And then I've got another question from Mr. Gäbler.
You wanted to know whether business accounts cannot be opened due to certain legal structures of certain associations. No, we don't exclude anything. However, in some cases, we will ask our clients not to open a current account for a certain type of association, but rather a corporate account. I've got two more questions to answer. Mr. Freitag, you wanted to know whether and how the bank assesses the behavior of the board in 2008 and 2009. Our answer is: the board regularly reports to the Regulatory Oversight Committee, the Audit Committee, and the full plenary about the takeover of Postbank. From these discussions, no indications have emerged this far regarding potential violations of duties of Management Board members in connection with the Postbank takeover. Please refer to the ID 292.
You also asked about the work performed by the Supervisory Board in connection with the Postbank litigation. Our answer is as follows: the Supervisory Board and its committees obtain regular and comprehensive information and reports about the Postbank takeover and litigation. Please bear with us in not disclosing any information. You will find our answer under the ID 300. This takes us to the end of the round of answers, and this gets us closer to the voting process, ladies and gentlemen. And therefore, I'd like to point out to you that you will have four more minutes until 4:55 to change your voting instructions to the proxies and representatives. But upon the end of the voting, it will then also be no longer possible to change votes, including postal votes, and the results will be recorded.
I thank all the speakers for their contributions. I thank the board members for the comprehensive answers to the questions raised. I hope we've been able to provide you with all the information you had requested, and we will now proceed to the vote. In three minutes, we will close the amendment function in the shareholder portal for your instructions to the proxies and representatives. Ladies and gentlemen, may I now explain to you the voting procedure at today's AGM? The company's proxy will be presenting votes. He'll summarize the voting ballots in an electronic format, which will be counted electronically. Until the shareholder portal will be closed for amendments of the voting instructions to the proxies, but all these amendments will, of course, be taken into account.
Everything will be included in the electronic voting process, and the postal votes will also be included, and together with the votes cast here today by the company's proxy, will be counted towards the results of the vote. This year, again, we will be using the addition method. This means that the yes votes and the no votes will be counted. In the light of this process, there will be one single ballot round on all agenda items as follows: Regarding agenda item one, we will not need to take a decision. Regarding agenda item two, appropriation of retained earnings for 2023, we will have to take a resolution.
The distributable profit of EUR 3,457,602,207.65 shall be used as follows: Payment of a dividend of EUR 0.45 per ordinary share on the 1,961,367,306 ordinary shares eligible for the payment of a dividend, and the allocation of EUR 2 billion to the retained earnings, which results in total of EUR 2,882,615,287.70, and the remaining amount of EUR 554,086,090.80 is carried forward to new account.
The countermotion of Mr. S ohn, who proposed a payment of a dividend of EUR 1.2 per share, well, we'll come back to that one if the proposal of the management does not receive the required majority. So if you want to support that countermotion, you are asked to vote no on the current voting round. Item number 3: ratification of the acts of management of the Supervisory Board and Management Board members for the fiscal year in 2023. The Management Board. The Management proposes that, the acts of management of the Supervisory Board members and of Management Board members are ratified. And in this regard, we will have an individual vote on an individual basis and individual separate resolutions.
On this motion, on this proposal, respective counterproposals have been submitted by three shareholders, and the announcement of countermotions have been published on the website of the company, and they apply therefore as posed. And if you want to follow the countermotions, you now vote on yes on proposal number 3. Item number 4. On item number 4, ratification of the act of management of the Supervisory Board members for the fiscal year 2023. Here, Management Board and Supervisory Board propose that the act of management of the Supervisory Board members be ratified for fiscal year 2023 for the respective period. And here, once again, voting will take place on an individual basis. That means for every single Supervisory Board member. And here, once again, we have received two countermotions in good time, which request that the ratification be denied, and the same as I just mentioned, item number 3 here applies. Furthermore, the Supervisory Board, based upon the recommendation of the audit committee, proposes that the auditor for the... That EY be elected as the auditor for the 2024 financial year for the interim accounts and the election of the auditor of the 2024 sustainability reporting. So in addition, the Supervisory Board, under item number 5.2, proposes that Ernst & Young GmbH & Co. KG Wirtschaftsprüfungsgesellschaft
EY to be appointed with effect from the entry into force of the law to transpose the Corporate Sustainability Reporting Directive into German law as the auditor for the purpose of the assurance of sustainability reporting for the 2024 financial year, so that the Supervisory Board is instructed to execute the resolution only if, according to the CSRD Implementation Act, the audit is required, without an external legal proceedings. And here I also refer to the countermotion of Mr. Gäbler, who votes against EY being appointed, but KPMG being appointed. And if the respective proposal does not receive the respective majority for EY, then KPMG, the proposal will be put to a vote.
Under item number six, the resolution on the approval of the compensation report for fiscal year 2023 is put to vote, and I refer to the countermotion, which proposes not to adopt and approve that compensation system. Under item number seven, the Supervisory Board proposes that the new compensation system, to be effective as of January 1, 2025, for the Management Board members be approved. On item number eight, the Management Board and Supervisory Board to authorize the company to purchase own shares according to Section 71(8) of the Stock Corporation Act, and to do so with the exclusion of the preemptive rights. Under item number nine, the... In addition to item number eight, the Management Board and Supervisory Board propose to authorize the company to use-...
use derivatives to purchase own shares in accordance with Section 71.8 of the Stock Corporation Act. Ladies and gentlemen, so much for our proposed votes, and now I would like to ask the proxy of the company to cast the respective votes. Let me also let you know that the respective members of the Supervisory Board and Management Board have made sure that during the votes on the ratification of the acts of management of the respective bodies, that is items three and four, no voting right is exercised for their own shares, and they will not exercise voting rights for third parties, either in a direct or indirect manner. Now, for the sake of good order, let me once again read out the current attendance.
The company's share capital amounts to 15 billion, 106 million, 436 thousand, 78.08 shares, divided into 1 billion, 994 million, 701 thousand, 593 registered non-par value shares. At today's AGM, are present 837 million, 104 thousand, 281 shares, representing the same number of shares, which is equivalent to 41.97% of the share capital. In addition, the possibility of absentee voting was used for 130 million, 84 thousand, 280 shares, representing the same number of votes. Including these votes, a total of 48.49% of the share capital are present today.
The updated attendance register has been uploaded to the shareholders portal, and let me once again point out that the possibility to change the votes through ballot absentee voting ends with the closing of the voting process. Now, I have seen that the voting proxy of the company had the opportunity to cast the votes in accordance with the instructions given to him, and with that, I hereby close the voting process. For the sake of good order, I also would like to point out that shareholders that have registered properly and have logged in properly, and also their proxies at this AGM, have the possibility to file objections against the resolutions of the AGM by electronic communication.
Respective statements can be submitted via the shareholders portal by pushing on the Objection button, and the notary public who will record the minutes will be notified of this via the shareholders portal. Objections can only be filed until I have closed the AGM. As the transmission on the internet takes place with a certain delay, I will once again refer to the upcoming closure of the AGM, once I have announced the voting results. Objections received after I have closed the meeting cannot be considered anymore. Now, it's gonna take a few minutes for us to obtain the results, so we will have a short break and will then continue by announcing the results. So another break. Thank you.
I mean, it's all about listening and asking questions. We are very personal. We've got a very close relationship. We work and exchange ideas. We tackle difficult situations. [Foreign language] Hopefully, he can see and feel that I'm looking to build a long-term relationship with him and that I'm not motivated by a twelve-month cycle. What he said? Okay. I think when you work with somebody for so long, you know, just like relationships transition to friendships, right? So I feel like you go, like, the extra mile for friends. And Gary, you know... It's clear to me Gary's doing that for us. ... [Foreign language]
I think one thing that's very clear is, Burkhard is very happy to share his views. I mean, he's not the kind of person who's just going to tell you what is the right thing. [Foreign language] . If I trust someone, I will be loyal. I'm not after the best deal. I'm after feeling, you know, well looked after. That's very nice. [Foreign language] You know, hopefully one day it'll be my daughter speaking to Alexis, maybe speaking to his daughter. [Foreign language]
We don't want you to be in everything. We just want you to be in things where you think you're going to be great, and what you've accomplished is pretty impressive. [Foreign language] . Nobody asked the first time we met. Do you remember the first time we met? Mark Flaherty's office. See, I don't even remember that. That's pretty good. Yeah.
I'm convinced that we urgently need a functioning circular economy. In this video, I explain why it is important and also what the financial sector has to do with it. The main benefit of a circular economy is resource conservation. But furthermore, we're also lowering our overall environmental impact by, for example, reducing the emissions that we're producing, but also by using less energy. While we previously just focused on the recycler itself, it will now also include other stakeholders, such as the producer, the user, the recycler itself, but furthermore, financial institutions as well as the government itself. We have to look at the whole life cycle of a product.
That means that the producer of a product has to take the recycling steps into consideration when designing a product, so that the product can be recycled to the highest quality possible, to then be reused at a later stage. That means every single stakeholder of the whole process need to take efficient and necessary steps to achieve the circular economy. Financial institutions can support the change by providing funding to dedicated projects as well as companies taking circular economy into considerations. The change to a circular economy is a huge task, and therefore, appropriate funding is necessary. Since financial institutions are one part of the stakeholders involved in a circular economy, collaboration as well as knowledge sharing is key.
Fashion is trends, and trends are fast. This makes the fast fashion system of take, make, and dispose, the dominant business model in the industry, with fatal economic and ecological consequences. Today, fashion is one of the most polluting industries worldwide. We're in Madrid at the headquarters of fashion brand Ecoalf. To tackle the fashion industry's waste problem, they're rewriting the rules. From design to distribution, Ecoalf is shaped by the idea of a circular economy. Their aim is to create a truly sustainable fashion brand.
Well, I think it's essential that we get the fashion industry circular as a whole. For us, first of all, we need the big groups to take it very seriously, you know? This is not about doing a capsule collection, which is with sustainable fabric. This is about the business model around the fashion industry.
... My name is Javier Goyeneche, and I'm the founder of Ecoalf.
The production of fashion today is resource-intensive and not sustainable. The industry produces 92 million tons of waste annually, consuming 79 trillion liters of water. The industry must rethink its approach for a livable future.
Waste is only waste if you waste it, but at the end of the day, it has a lot of value, and it's proven, no? That we can take that waste and make a shirt which is exactly, the same in terms of quality, design, et cetera. So I think it's, it's very important that we stop thinking of waste as something which is waste.
Starting small, Ecoalf now has a range of recycled materials you would never suspect were recycled. Usually, in any conventional fashion brand, design team start with the ideas, the mood boards, and then they select the fabrics. But here, it's different because we don't design, we eco-design. To work with this kind of eco-design principles and the circular economy, the most important thing is the material. Ecoalf works with plastic waste. They even recycle old tires, coffee, or cotton. But these raw materials often consist of many materials, which makes them incredibly difficult to recycle. That is why Ecoalf focuses even more on the future of its own materials.
So if we think in the circular economy, to collect and to recycle the garment, we are using a lot of mono material. Our collection is mono material. That means that at the end of the life cycle of the garment, they will be very easily recycled. It's also about being successful as a company. Ecoalf has been profitable since 2021, with a steady growth of 35% per year, continuously expanding internationally. Since starting a flagship store in Berlin in 2017, they have also opened stores in Milan, Tokyo, and Paris.
Well, I've always had very clear that Ecoalf is not an NGO. I think it's very important that companies like Ecoalf, which are trying to doing things in a different way, show that it's possible, okay, to do things in a different way, but be as profitable as the best in the industry, no? Because that way, I think you're gonna show the banks, you're gonna show the investors, you're gonna show that it's possible, and that way, I'm sure they're gonna support many more other companies which are fighting to do the things in a different way.
A good example is how Ecoalf recovers raw materials. Their initiative, Upcycling the Oceans, collaborates together with over 4,500 local fishermen. Waste taken out of the sea during fishing is collected and recycled, recycled into new yarns that can get a second life in Ecoalf's fashion. Together, they have built a completely new kind of waste management system.
I think that every decision we take has an impact. People ask you, "Hey, how do you envision 250?" Well, it depends what we do from here to 250. I mean, if we keep on throwing one tree every minute, obviously, the ocean... So it's up to us, no? I think... And in the fashion industry, it's the same. We cannot be working with a bad model of buying, throwing, buying, throwing, a new trend every Thursday, discount, promotion, Black Friday. This is creating huge billions of garments into landfill.
In a world hungry for change, Ecoalf proves that sustainability is always in fashion.
The world is continuously changing, and so are the needs of our clients. Our founding purpose lives on. For over 150 years, we've been supporting our clients worldwide. We provide financial security, even in times of change and technological progress. The lasting success of our clients is at the center of everything we do. We are there whenever you need us, always available, ready to listen, with dedicated solutions for you. We are your Global Hausbank. Our aim is to always be the first choice for our clients. Leading in Europe, represented in 57 countries around the world, and globally networked, we support and develop digital initiatives and technologies for the world we live in now, tomorrow, and beyond. Acting sustainably does not just match our understanding of social responsibility, it is the basis for growth in all industries and areas.
We stand shoulder to shoulder with you around the world with our treasury, payments, and trade finance solutions and our local expertise. We connect you to the international capital markets and link you with global investors to finance your projects, and we help you manage your risks. We form a solid foundation in the lives of more than 20 million private clients in Europe and the rest of the world, as the first point of contact for all their financial needs. We are at your side with financial advice and the right investment products for every market. Globally and locally, always your reliable partner. Your Global Hausbank.
I mean, it's all about listening and asking questions. ... [Foreign language] We are very personal. We've got a very close relationship. We work and exchange ideas, we tackle difficult situations. [Foreign language] Hopefully, he can looking to build a long-term relationship with him, and that I'm not motivated by a 12-month cycle. [Foreign language] Okay. I think when you work with somebody for so long, you know, just like relationships transition to friendships, right? So I feel like you go, like, the extra mile for friends. And Gary, you know, it's clear to me Gary is doing that for us.
[Foreign language] No, I think one thing that is very clear is, Burkhard is very happy to share his views. I mean, he's not the kind of person who's just going to tell you what is the right thing.[Foreign language] . If I trust someone, I will be loyal. I'm not after the best deal. I'm after feeling, you know, well looked after.
That's very nice. [Foreign language] . You know, hopefully one day it'll be my daughter speaking to Alexis, or maybe speaking to his daughter. [Foreign language] . We don't want you to be in everything. We just want you to be in things where you think you're gonna be great. And what you've accomplished is pretty impressive. [Foreign language] Nobody asked the first time we met. Do you remember the first time we met? Mark Flaherty's office. See, I don't-
I'm convinced that we urgently need a functioning circular economy. In this video, I explain why it is important and also what the financial sector has to do with it. The main benefit of a circular economy is resource conservation. But furthermore, we're also lowering our overall environmental impact by, for example, reducing the emissions that we're producing, but also by using less energy. While we previously just focused on the recycler itself, it will now also include other stakeholders, such as the producer, the user, the recycler itself, but furthermore, financial institutions as well as the government itself. We have to look at the whole life cycle of a product.
That means that the producer of a product has to take the recycling steps into consideration when designing a product, so that the product can be recycled to the highest quality possible, to then be reused at a later stage. That means every single stakeholder of the whole process needs to take efficient and necessary steps to achieve the circular economy. Financial institutions can provide funding to dedicated projects, as well as companies taking the circular economy into consideration. The change to a circular economy is a huge task, and therefore appropriate funding is necessary. Since financial institutions are one part of the stakeholders involved in a circular economy, collaboration as well as knowledge sharing is key.
... Ladies and gentlemen, we now have the voting results on the items on the agenda one to nine. I will pronounce the decisions. The yes and no votes will be displayed in the video. So you will be hearing me when I announce the accounts, but not see me. In order to improve the visibility, you can blow up the screen, can see it in the full screen mode. There was a request to have the full text version of the results. There's a legal right to do so, to ask for this, so I... Please be patient. I also have an update on the attendance list.
So of the share capital of EUR 106,436,078.09, subdivided into 1,995,000,000 of the share— From this, for 130,887,922 shares with the same number of votes. The absentee ballot was used. If you add that, we have a ratio of 48.49% of the share capital. So on the agenda, we had, we, on items three, four, six, eight, and nine of the agenda, we had the recommendations of the Management Board and the Supervisory Board, as published in the final Federal Gazette of twenty-sixth of March 2024.
With regard to item number 2 on the agenda, the updated proposal for distribution for the appropriation of retained earnings was published in the Federal Gazette. On item number 2, appropriation of net earnings for 2023, with 965,098,089 votes cast, which corresponds to 48.38% of the share capital, 964,038,181 yes votes were cast, which corresponds to 99.89% against 1- Number 2, the proposal- on the agenda is this, null and void. Item number 3, ratification of the acts of management 3.1. The acts of this member of management were ratified. Vote on Mr.
Christian Sewing with 959,559,508 shares, for which valid votes were cast, corresponding to 48.11% of the share capital, 934,972,567 yes votes, 1,941 no votes cast, which corresponds to 2.56%. Thus, the acts of management of Mr. Christian Sewing was ratified with the required number of vote. Now, we have the result of Mr. James von Moltke, ratification of his acts, with 960,166,097 shares, for which valid votes were cast, corresponding to 48.14% of the share capital.
935,771,458 yes votes were cast, which corresponds to 97.46%, compared to 24,394,639 no votes, which corresponds to 2.54%. So thus, the acts of Mr. James von Moltke as member of the Management Board of the Deutsche Bank were ratified for the business year 2023. The Deutsche Bank were ratified for the business year 2023. Vote on the Karl von Rohr with 922,007,847 shares for which valid votes were cast, corresponding to 46.22% of the share capital.
889,410,571 yes votes were cast, which corresponds to 96.46%. 32,597,276 no votes were cast, which corresponds to 3.54%. Thus, acts of Karl von Rohr as member of the Management Board is approved. A vote on Mr. Fabrizio Campelli with 959,964,395 shares for which valid votes were cast, 48.13% of the share capital. Thus, 935,149,192 yes votes corresponds to 97.41%, and 24,817,203 no votes were cast, which is 2.59%.
Thus, the acts of Mr. Fabrizio Campelli are ratified. A vote on Mr. Bernd Leukert with 923,171,290 votes, shares and votes were cast, which corresponds to 56.2%. 891,338,977 yes, so it's 96.2%. 32,132,449 no, with 3.48%, so acts of Bernd Leukert are ratified. Vote on Mr. Alexander von zur Müehlen with 959,556,269 shares, for which valid votes were cast, corresponding to 48.11% of the share capital.
934,966,444 yes votes were cast, corresponding to 97.44%—corresponding to 97.44%, compared with 24,595,824 no votes, corresponding to 2.56%. Thus, the acts of Mr. Alexander von zur Müehlen were ratified for the business year 2023 with the required majority of votes. A vote on Ms. Christiana Riley, 959,250,119 shares, which corresponds to 48.049% of the share capital. 934,436,378 yes votes, corresponding to 97.41%.
24,813,741 no votes, corresponding to 2.59%, and the acts of Christiana Riley are thus ratified. Claudio de Sanctis, 959,517,218 shares, for which valid votes were cast corresponding to 48.10%. 934,670,310 yes votes, which corresponds to 97.41%, against 24,846,908 no votes, which corresponds to 2.49%. Thus, the acts of Claudio de Sanctis are ratified. Vote on Rebecca Short with 959,617,338 shares, for which valid votes were cast, corresponding to 48.11% of the share capitals.
934,795,303 yes votes, corresponding to 97.41%, against 24,822,035 no votes, which corresponds to 2.59%. Thus, the acts of management of Rebecca Short are approved. Vote on Professor Dr. Stefan Simon, 959,389,213 shares, for which valid votes were cast corresponding to 48.1% of the share capital. 934,502,739 yes votes were cast, 97.41%. 24,886,487 no votes, corresponding to 2.59%. Thus, acts of management of Mr. Stefan Simon are ratified.
Olivier Vigneron, 959,380,747 shares, for which valid votes were cast, corresponding to 48.1% of the share capital. 127,674 yes votes were cast, corresponding to 97.43%, against 24,653,073 no votes, corresponding to 2.57%. Thus, acts of management of Olivier Vigneron is approved for fiscal 2023. On behalf of all members of the Management Board, I would like to thank you for the trust placed in them, and the counter proposals on item number three of the agenda are thus null and void. This gets us to the Supervisory Board, that Alexander von zur Müehlen, result on Alexander von zur Müehlen.
923,397,693 shares, for which valid votes were cast, corresponding to 46.29% of the share capital. 885,614,664 yes votes, corresponding to 95.9%, against 37,783,029 no votes, corresponding to 4.09%. Thus, the acts of Alexander Wynaendts as member of the Supervisory Board for fiscal 2023 are approved. Detlef Polaschek, 922,845,515 shares, for which valid votes were cast, corresponding to 46.26% of the share capital.
891,048,045 yes votes, corresponding to 96.5%, against 31,797,479 no votes, corresponding to 3.45%. Thus, the acts of Detlef Polaschek are ratified. Frank Schulze, 900,087 shares, for which valid votes were cast, corresponding to 46.26% of the share capital. 891,059,865 yes votes, corresponding to 96.57%, against 31,659,220 no votes corresponding to 3.43% as the acts of Frank Schulze as members of the Supervisory Boards are ratified for fiscal 2023.
Now me, myself and I, Professor Doctor Norbert Winkeljohann, 923,209,680 shares, corresponding to 46.28% of the share capital. 891,326,173 yes votes, corresponding to 96.5%, against 31,883,507 no votes, corresponding to 3.45%. Thus, the acts of Dr. Norbert Winkeljohann are also ratified. Vote on Ms. Susanne Bleidt, 922,708,705 shares for which valid votes were cast, corresponding to 46.26% of the share capital.
891,042,009 yes votes were cast, which corresponds to 96.57%, against 31,666,696 no votes, corresponding to 3.43%. Thus, the acts of Ms. Susanne Bleidt as member of the Supervisory Board for fiscal to 2023 are ratified. Mr. Ludwig Blomeyer-Bartenstein , 922,672,626 shares, for which valid votes were cast, corresponding to 46.26% of the share capital. 891,037,562 yes votes, corresponding to 96.57%, against 31,665,064 no votes, corresponding to 3.43%. Thus, the acts of Mr. Ludwig Blomeyer-Bartenstein are ratified as a member of the Supervisory Board.
Mayree Clark, 922,818,567 shares, for which valid votes were cast, corresponding to 46.26% of the share capital. 891,073,438 yes votes, corresponding to 96.56%, against 31,745,129 no votes, corresponding to 3.44%. Thus, the acts of Mayree Clark are ratified. Jan Duscheck, 922,714,925 shares, for which valid votes were cast, corresponding to 46.26% of the share capital.
890,976,529 yes votes were cast, corresponding to 96.56%, against 31,738,939 no votes, which corresponds to 3.44%. So the acts of Mr. Jan Duscheck were ratified as member of the management of the Supervisory Board. Manja Eifert, 922,735,106 shares, 46.2% of the share capital.
Thus, 891,031,411 yes votes were cast, corresponding to 96.56%, against 31,703,695 no votes, corresponding to 3.44%, and thus the acts of Manja Eifert as member of the Supervisory Board for fiscal 2023 are ratified. Ms. Claudia Fieber, 922,572,019 shares, corresponding to 46.25% of share capital. 890,965,801 yes votes, corresponding to 96.57%. 31,606,208 no votes, corresponding to 3.43%.
Thus, the acts of Claudia Fieber as member of the Supervisory Board for fiscal 2023 are ratified. Sigmar Gabriel, 922,867,709 shares, 46.26% of the share capital. Thus, 889,583,770 yes votes, corresponding to 96.41%, against 33,086,939 no votes, corresponding to 3.59%. Thus, the acts of Sigmar Gabriel as member of the Supervisory Board are ratified. Timo Heider, 921,861,541 shares, 46.6% of the share capital.
Out of this, 890,168,252 yes votes, corresponding to 96.56%, against 31,693,289 no votes, corresponding to 3.44%. Thus, the acts of Mr. Timo Heider as member of the Supervisory Board for fiscal 2023 is ratified. Martina Klee, 922,831,253 shares, 46.2% of the share capital. 890,822,341 yes votes corresponding to 96.53%, against 32,008,912 no votes, corresponding to 3.47%.
Thus, the acts of Martina Klee as member of the Supervisory Board for fiscal 2023 are ratified. Birgit Lomen , 922,493,797 shares, for which valid votes were cast, corresponding to 46.25% of the share capital. 890,470,918 yes votes were cast, corresponding to 96.53%, against 32,022,879 no votes, corresponding to 3.47%. Birgit Lomen , thus her acts are ratified. Gabriele Platscher , 921,927,370 shares, 46.22% of the share capital.
889,922,141 yes votes were cast, corresponding to 96.53%, against 32,005,229 no votes. Thus, the acts of Gabriele—which corresponds to 3.47%—thus the acts of Gabriele Platscher are ratified. Bernd Rose, 921,683,399 shares, for which valid votes were cast, corresponding to 46.21% of the share capital. 889,949,381 yes votes, corresponding to 96.56% of the share capital. 31,734,089 no votes, 3.44%, which ratifies the acts of Mr. Bernd Rose, Gerlinde Siebert.
922,625,090 shares, 46.2% of the share capital, 890,933,446 yes votes, corresponding to 96.57%, against 31,691,644 no votes, corresponding to 3.43%. Thus, the acts of Ms. Gerlinde Siebert as member of the Supervisory Board are ratified. This gets us to Yngve Slyngstad. 922,000,362 shares, corresponding to 46.25% of the share capital. 800,859,966 yes votes, corresponding to 96.57%, against 31,667,366 no votes, which corresponds to 3.43%.
Thus, the acts of Yngve Slyngstad as member of the Supervisory Board are ratified for fiscal 2023. Now, Stephan Szukalski . 922,481,288 shares, corresponding to 46.25% of the share capital. 890,809,128 yes votes, corresponding to 96.47%, against 31,672,160 no votes, corresponding to 3.43%. Thus, the acts of Stephan Szukalski as member of the Supervisory Board are ratified. This gets us to John Thain, with 922 million, one hundred and eleven thousand, sixty-nine shares, corresponding to 46.23% of the share capital.
809,302,341 yes votes, corresponding to 96.55%, against 31,809,349 no votes, corresponding to 3.45%. Thus, the acts of Mr. John Thain as member of the Supervisory Board are ratified. Jürgen Tögel, 922,573,174 shares, corresponding to 46.25% of the share capital. 890,920,554 yes votes, corresponding to 96.57%, against 31,616,620 no votes, corresponding to 3.43%. Thus, the acts of Mr.
Tögell as member of the Supervisory Board for fiscal 2023 are ratified with required majority of votes. Michele Trogneux , 922,734,091 shares for which valid votes were cast, which corresponds to 46.26% of the share capital. 890,846,356 yes votes, corresponding to 96.34%, against 31,887,735 no votes, corresponding to 3.45%. The acts of Michele Trogneux are also ratified. Dr. Dagmar Valcárcel , 922,720,864 shares, for which valid votes were cast, corresponding to 46.26% of the share capital.
890,720,306 yes votes were cast, corresponding to 96.53%, against 32,000,558 no votes, corresponding to 3.47%. Thus, the acts of Dagmar Valcárcel as member of the Supervisory Board for fiscal 2023 are ratified. Mr. Stefan Viertel 922,494,492 shares, corresponding to 46.25% of the share capital. 890,764,666 yes votes, corresponding to 96.56%, against 31,729,826 no votes, corresponding to 3.44%. Thus, the acts of Stefan Viertel are ratified as member of the Supervisory Board. Mr.
Theodor Weimer, 922,716,684 shares, corresponding to 46.26% of the share capital. 891,012,132 yes votes were cast, corresponding to 96.56%, against 31,704,552 no votes, corresponding to 3.44%. Thus, the acts of Dr. Theodor Weimer as member of the Supervisory Board for fiscal 2023 are ratified. Mr. Frank Werneke , 922,513,165 shares, corresponding to 46.25% of the share capital.
890,594,378 yes votes, corresponding to 96.54%, against 31,918,787 no votes, corresponding to 3.46%. Thus, the acts of Mr. Frank Witter as member of the Supervisory Board for fiscal 2023 were ratified with the required majority of votes. Mr. Frank Witter, 922,541,755 shares, for which valid votes were cast, corresponding to 46.25% of the share capital. 890,131,465 yes votes were cast, corresponding to 96.4%, against 32,410,209 no votes, corresponding to 3.51%.
Thus, the acts of Mr. Frank Witter as member of the Supervisory Board for fiscal year 2023 was ratified with required majority of votes. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of all Supervisory Board members, I would like to thank you for the trust expressed in these votes. The counterproposal for the item number 4 on the agenda are thus null and void. I would like to avoid that the, the AGM will be closed in about 2 minutes. On item number 5 on the agenda, election of the auditor for the business year 2024.... With 922,500,859 votes for which valid votes were cast, corresponding to 48.25% of the share capital.
958,352,773 yes votes were cast, corresponding to 99.57%, against 4,148,086 no votes, corresponding to 0.43%. Thus, the proposal of the Supervisory Board on item number 5.1, as published in the Federal Gazette on the twenty-sixth of March, 2025—2024, was approved with the required majority of votes. Item number 5.2: election of the auditor for the sustainability reporting. I establish 961,676,118 shares, for which valid votes were cast, corresponding to 48.2% of the share capital.
957,666,245 yes votes were cast, corresponding to 9,008,873 no votes, corresponding to 0.42%. Thus, the proposal of the Supervisory Board on item number 5.2, as published in the Federal Gazette on the twenty-sixth of March, 2024, was adopted with the required majority of votes. The proposal for election of Mr. Oswald on item number five is thus null and void. Item number six: This is the resolution on the compensation report produced and audited for 2023. I hereby establish and announce, with 962,423,295 shares for which valid votes were cast, corresponding to 48.25% of the share capital.
835,444,006 yes votes, corresponding to 86.81%, against 126,979,209 no votes, corresponding to 13.1%. Thus, the proposal of the Management Board and the Supervisory Board, as published in the Federal Gazette on the twenty-sixth of March, 2024, was approved with the required majority. The counterproposal on item number 6 is thus null and void. Item number 7 on the agenda: resolution to be taken on the approval of the compensation system for the Management Board members. I hereby establish and announce, with 964,002,803 shares, for which valid votes were cast, corresponding to 48.33% of the share.
171,005 yes votes were cast, corresponding to 97.32%, against 25,871,598 no votes were cast, corresponding to 2.68%. Thus, the proposal of the Supervisory Board on item 7, as published on the 26th of March in the Federal Gazette, was approved with the required majority. Item 8 on the agenda: authorization to acquire own shares pursuant to Section 71, para. 1, No. 8, Stock Corporation Act, German Stock Corporation Act, as well as for their use with the possible exclusion of pre-emptive rights. I hereby establish and announce, with 963,847,040 shares, for which valid votes were cast, corresponding to 48.32% of the share capital.
937,420,057 yes votes were cast, corresponding to 97.26%, against 26,426,983 no votes, corresponding to 2.74%. Thus, the motion for the proposal for motion by the Management Board and Supervisory Board, as published in the Federal Gazette on the twenty-sixth of March, 2024, on item 8 of the agenda, was approved with the required majority of votes and qualified capital majority. Item 9 on the agenda: authorization to use derivatives within the framework of the purchase of own shares pursuant to 71 of the Stock Corporation Act.
With 963,610,902 shares, for which valid votes were cast, corresponding to 48.3% of the share capital. 943,603,659 yes votes were cast, corresponding to 97.92%, against 20,007,243 no votes, corresponding to 2.08%. Thus, the motion for resolution of the Management Board and the Supervisory Board on item number 9, as published in the Federal Gazette on the twenty-sixth of March, 2024, was adopted with the required majority of votes. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the agenda.
I'd like to thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for your interest in the development of Deutsche Bank, which you expressed through your questions, your statements, but also staying with us during the AGM. I'd also like to thank all employees again, who were involved in the preparation and the running of this AGM. The next AGM will be on Thursday, the twenty-second of May, twenty twenty-five. The meeting is hereby closed, and I'd like to say goodbye. All the best. Stay well. Goodbye.