Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for standing by. Welcome to the HHLA's conference call on the full year results 2022. All comments will refer to a set of chats available since this morning in the IR section of HHLA's webcast. The presentation will be followed by a question and answer session. Throughout today's recorded conference, all participants will be in a listen only mode. Press the star key followed by zero for operator assistance. HHLA is represented today by Angela Titzrath, CEO, and Tanja Dreilich, CFO. Now it's my pleasure, and I would like to turn the conference over to Angela Titzrath, CEO. Please go ahead, ma'am.
Thank you very much. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to our conference call on the financial year 2022. Before we take a deep dive into our financial performance in the past year, I would like to extend a special warm welcome to our new Chief Financial Officer, Tanja Dreilich, who has been with us since the beginning of the year. In the challenging 2022 financial year, HHLA provided its efficiency and resilience. Together with its affiliated companies, HHLA is a major player in the European logistics network. Whether in the ports of Hamburg, Tallinn, Odessa, or Trieste, or on the rails in the hinterland, HHLA reliably fulfills its remit as a service provider to companies and consumers across Germany and Europe. In spite of the challenging conditions, we once again successfully mastered this task.
Right at the start of the year, we had to close our terminal in the port of Odessa to seaborne handling due to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. However, hinterland transportation remained in place during the year. Our Intermodal companies were able to set up a rail bound land bridge by our Intermodal companies to connect Odessa to other European ports. What's more, in the fourth quarter of 2022, we also started some top-up loading activities for grain vessels at CTO as well. Even though it was not only the Russian war of aggression in Ukraine and its consequences that challenged us and burdened our financial performance in 2022. We faced major operational challenges from several external conditions.
In particular, the disruptions to the global supply chains caused, among other things, by port closures in Asia and North America, and massive ship delays or disruptions in the European hinterland due to storms or construction sites kept us busy in 2022. Thanks to the high deployment of personnel and technology, as well as the establishment of additional storage areas, we managed to quickly reduce the container backlog. In addition, we had to cope with strong rises in energy prices and inflation, as well as the first strike in Hamburg for 42 years. It was also one of our container terminals in Hamburg, which became a particular focus of interest. I'm talking about the Container Terminal Tollerort, which attracted considerable media attention due to COSCO's planned minority shareholding. The strategic partnership with COSCO elevates the CTT to a preferred hub for Asia traffic.
This is important for us to bind volumes from the Far East to the Port of Hamburg. We are still waiting for the approval of this transaction by the Federal Ministry of Economics. As soon as this decision has been made, we swiftly finalize this transaction with COSCO in a timely manner. Despite all these challenges given, HHLA was able to close the 2022 financial year with a positive result. At EUR 201.6 million, the EBIT result of the Port Logistics subgroup did not quite match the strong result of the previous year. However, it still exceeded our expectations at the start of the year of between EUR 160 million and EUR 195 million, at an expected range that did not account for the consequences of the Russian war of aggression and the global economy.
HHLA finished the third pandemic year in a row with a profit. On that note, let me hand you over to Tanja for more details on our financial performance in 2022.
Thank you, Angela. Good afternoon, everyone, also from me. Let's move directly to the reporting for our Container segment. Overall, Container throughput at HHLA's terminals decreased by 7.9% to 6.4 million TEU in 2022. Throughput at our terminals in Hamburg fell by 4.1% to 6.1 million TEU, and thus held quite strong compared to the main competing European North Range ports. What does it mean? If Hamburg throughput fell by our terminals by 4.1%, then it's significantly lower than in the total Hamburg throughput of -5.1% and significantly lower compared to Rotterdam, -5.5%, Antwerp, 5.2%, the Bremer ports, 8.9%.
We really proved our resilience in our performance in 2022 at our Hamburg terminals. However, throughput development was generally harmed by disrupted supply chains, which led to high storage utilization and thus restricted the handling capacity in our terminals accordingly. Lower cargo volumes from the Far East shipping region, especially China, also had an impact. The acquisition of two feeder services in the first quarter of 2022, and the increase in cargo attributed to Poland and Scandinavia could not fully offset the decrease in volumes from and to Russia due to the EU sanctions. That said, the feeder ratio of seaborne handling decreased slightly to 0.6 percentage points, up to 19.8%. Among our international container terminals, Tallinn saw strong volume growth due to increased use of the terminal as an alternative to the Russian ports.
Our Odessa terminal is still closed on the waterside, remains operational and open for allowed grain exports. Despite encouraging volume growth, the terminals in Tallinn and Trieste in Italy only partially could offset the decline in volume at the Odessa terminal. The international terminals reported a decline in volume by 47.1%. Despite significantly lower volumes, segment revenue increased slightly by 2.6% year-on-year, up to EUR 864.2 million. The main reason for this was a strong temporary rise in storage fees and the container terminals in Hamburg, Tallinn and Trieste over the year.
OpEx increased as well, not only the revenue side, by 3 percentage points compared to the previous year, mainly due to strong rise in the cost of materials as a result of higher electricity consumption and rising fuel costs, as well as from additional personal expenses linked to the very high storage load and the collective wage increase agreed in the third quarter of 2022. Expenses associated with services and consulting, as well as expenses for external maintenance services also rose. OpEx for the terminal in Trieste also rose significantly due to the comprehensive start-up of business or further business operations. However, average revenue per TEU increased and reflected a spike in storage fees.
As a result of all these challenging activities, EBIT rose by 1.3% to EUR 105.3 million. We see that it is only slightly 0.2% lower than last year EBIT margin, at a very good level instead. Let's move on now to the Intermodal segment. Although disruptions to the transport chains did not stop the seaport terminals, but they also impacted hinterland transport. Our Intermodal companies achieved a slight increase in total transport volumes of 0.2% to 1.7 million TEU. Whereas road transport declined significantly by 8.7%. Rail transportation grew moderately by 2.2% year-on-year and also proved resilience. This growth was mainly driven by traffic from the North German seaports, strong Polish traffic and a rise in the German-speaking market.
By contrast, traffic with the Adria-Adriatic seaports remained slightly below the prior year level. With an increase of 14.6% to EUR 595.4 million, revenue growth was far stronger than the rise in the transport volumes. This was mainly due to a further increase in the rail share of HHLA's total Intermodal transportation from 81.6 percentage points to 83.2 percentage points, as well as temporary price surges, the charges for rail transport that were implemented to partially offset the sharp rise in energy prices. As a result, EBIT came in at a level of EUR 95.3 million, thus decreasing by 8.6% compared to the previous year.
Earnings were burdened by operational interruptions due to ongoing supply chain disruptions, as mentioned, and a strong rise in energy prices, which could only be passed on to the market after some delay, some phasing during the year. As a result, the EBIT margin fell by 4.1 percentage points to 16%. Please bear in mind that the prior year figure was also supported by a higher subsidy for route prices of approximately EUR 11 million, granted retroactively in the third quarter of 2021. Let's turn briefly to the Logistics segment, where we have pooled the vehicle logistics and consultancy division as well as new business activities. In the reported period, the consolidated companies reported revenues of EUR 77.6 million. Thus exceeded the prior year figure by 8.8%.
Consulting activities and vehicle logistics in particular, contributed to this positive development. EBIT fell to EUR 6.9 million negative, in particular, to an impairment of a company called Bionic Production of around EUR 4 million. The company was deconsolidated in the fourth quarter of 2022. At equity earnings especially, you know, the equity earnings are reported below the EBIT line. They increased to EUR 4.2 million during the 2022 financial year, despite partially opposing developments in earnings of individual business activities, as we have seen in other segments as well. Coming back to the Port Logistics subgroup. As a whole, let's have a closer look at our cash flows development. The cash flow from operating activities decreased by around EUR 34 million to EUR 257.1 million as of 31st December 2022.
The main reason for this development were lower pension provisions compared to the previous year, 2021. Higher income tax payments in 2022 and a fall in EBIT, so of around EUR 6.5 million. Investing activities resulted in a net cash outflow of EUR 131.6 million and were, thus, stayed below the prior year figure. This development was mainly due to higher proceeds from short-term deposits compared to the same period last year. A change of short-term deposits up to three months, an increase of those and a decrease of those short-term deposits for to 12 months. The free cash flow came in at a solid level of EUR 125.5 million. Cash flow from financing activities totaled EUR 132.1 million.
This was EUR 55 million higher than in the previous year due to higher dividend payments and higher settlement obligations paid to non-controlling interests. Overall, our available liquidity at the end of December 2022 remained at a comfortable level of EUR 177.8 million. The next slide highlights our equity development of the Port Logistics subgroup. Equity increased in 2022 quite significantly, up to EUR 809 million in 2022. Mainly as a consequence of rising interest rates, 40% increase, 40 basis points increase in interest rates that led to actuarial gains and a positive result for the reporting period. Deferred taxes and the distribution of dividends had an opposing effect.
In view of this development, the equity ratio increased to around 32%, coming from 22.1% last year, with a dynamic gearing ratio of 3.2 x net debt versus EBITDA. Despite the challenges we have faced over the past year, we are sticking to our dividend policy. We have a proposal for the general assembly in June 15th. Since the IPO in 2007, HHLA has been committed to its profit-oriented dividend policy, which aims to distribute between 50% and 70% of annual net profit after minority interest. Based on our financial performance in the 2022 financial year, we will propose, together with the supervisory board, a dividend of EUR 0.75 per Class A share.
Subject to the approval of the annual general meeting on June 15th, 2023, we will distribute a total dividend payout of EUR 54.4 million. This means a payout ratio of 66%. That concludes my remarks. For a review of our ESG performance, a status update of the strategic steps to secure our core business, and an outlook for the 2023 financial year, let me hand over to Angela.
Thank you. As you all know, sustainability is an integral part of HHLA's business model. This approach is also reflected in our new reporting structure. We have decided to transfer sustainability reporting into our group management report. For the first time, it includes in-depth disclosures on environmental, social and governance aspects. Just how sustainable our business activities already are, is underlined by the high degree of alignment with the EU Taxonomy, which we are reporting for the first time this year. It exceeds 80% for revenue, capital expenditure and operating expenses. Moreover, I would like to point out another highlight. At CTA, we are continuing to convert the AGV fleet and refueling infrastructure to electric. To date, 85% of the fleet has been electrified, with the last vehicle switching over to electric during 2023.
The electrification of processes and increased use of renewable energies is a decisive step of our long-term aim, which is to achieve climate-neutral production throughout the HHLA Group by 2040. Ladies and gentlemen, on the next slide, I would like to highlight some achievements of our group strategy. To ensure that HHLA remains competitive and efficient in the future, the Container segment is working hard on the implementation of our efficiency program for the Hamburg terminals. We continue to invest in the future of the Port of Hamburg. At the container terminal, Burchardkai, the block storage system was expanded as scheduled, and additionally, measures for the automation of handling operations were implemented. With the recently launched organizational realignment, we are setting the course for the future and securing employment for the long term. Internationally, we are investing in strengthening our European network.
In 2022, we expanded our network with new rail connections between the Baltic and the Bosphorus. In March 2023, our Intermodal company, METRANS, acquired a 51% stake in the Croatian Adria Rail, which offers rail transport from the Adriatic region to Central and Southeastern Europe, both as a rail operator and as a rail transport company. Adria Rail also owns the inland terminal in Inđija, Serbia, near Belgrade. This expands the European METRANS network to a total of 20 terminals at important hubs in Europe. In the port of Muuga, our TK Estonia terminal is now able to handle ships with a volume of 14,000 TEU thanks to the transfer of two container gantry cranes from CTB. Our terminal in the Port of Trieste is also becoming increasingly important, linking cargo flows from the Eastern Mediterranean, the Adriatic, and Central and Eastern Europe.
We are not only investing in existing structures, we also see ourselves as facilitators of innovative and sustainable logistics. Established in late 2021, HHLA Next is our very own innovation unit and has already positioned its first products on the market. One of them is heyport, a port call coordination system. It is already being used to improve communication and coordination of ship calls. HHLA Next has invested in FERNRIDE and has launched a pilot project for automated driving in Tallinn together with HHLA TK Estonia. Our innovation unit will continue to invest consistently in innovative solutions and make them usable for HHLA. HHLA is already shaping the logistics of the future by continuing to invest in innovative and sustainable business activities. Ladies and gentlemen, the past year was subject to many uncertainties.
As a result, it is currently not possible to issue a reliable forecast. For 2023, we expect the Port Logistics subgroup to show a moderate increase year-on-year in both Ccontainer throughput and Container transport. As revenue and the operating result in the financial year 2022 were positively influenced by the significant rise in income from storage fees, revenue of the Port Logistics subgroup in 2023 is expected to be on par with the previous year. While the Container segment is likely to see a slight year-on-year decline in revenue, a significant increase is assumed for the Intermodal segment. Overall, an EBIT result in the range of EUR 145 million-EUR 175 million is considered possible for the Port Logistics subgroup.
Within this range, a strong decline in segment EBIT is expected in the Container segment and a moderate increase in the Intermodal segment. With regard to liquidity, HHLA assumes it will have sufficient funds at all times to meet its payment obligations. In order to further increase efficiency and expand capacity in the Container and Intermodal segments, capital expenditure in the Port Logistics subgroup will be in the range of EUR 220 million-EUR 270 million. In the Container segment, investments will focus on the efficient use of existing terminal space in the Port of Hamburg and the expansion of foreign terminals, and in the Intermodal segment, on the expansion of groups on transport and handling capacity.
Of course, the forecast for capital expenditure is subject to the condition that there are no unexpected delays in additions to assets due to material shortages or long-term disruption to supply chains. It goes without saying that HHLA will continue to consider the scalability of its capital expenditure and adjust it where necessary to future economic developments in order to safeguard the financial stability of the group. Ladies and gentlemen, with this outlook, I would like to close my remarks on our financial result 2022. Now we are happy to take your questions.
Ladies and gentlemen, at this time, we will begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wants to ask a question may press star followed by one. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star followed by two. Anyone who has a question may press star followed by one at this time. One moment for the first question, please. We have the first question from Nikolas Mauder from Kepler. Your question please.
Hi, good afternoon. Thank you for taking my questions. I have three, if I may. The first one would be on the excess storage fee normalization during 2023. Can you share your assumption for the full year? What level are we normalizing to? Will we be fully normalized at the end of 2022 already in the context of your guidance? That's the first step. Secondly, the average sales per TEU in the Intermodal segment increased again sequentially in the fourth quarter. While I was under the impression that energy prices were falling from summer onwards, can you perhaps explain this counter-intuitive movement, at least to me? What is a reasonable normalization assumption here, given that your guidance suggests that this average sales per TEU level will stay elevated during 2023?
Finally on CapEx, it's going to accelerate from 2022 going forward, but less than I originally expected. Is this already a reaction to the adverse earnings development during 2022? What does this do to the timeline for the efficiency gains of slash self-help potential that you think you can realize on the back of these investments? Thank you very much.
Thank you, Mr. Mauder. I will start with the Intermodal question. You need to take into consideration that you have two aspects. We were driving basically the price level. One is the energy consumption costs. The second one, obviously we had in 2022 some congestion charges in the ports of Europe, which are reflected in these numbers as well. For 2023, we are on average on this on this level again, as we have different assumptions on the energy costs within Europe. As we are now not only in Germany, but within Europe, this is actually the price level overall.
CapEx, you need please to take into consideration that what is true for the whole industry, that as well we are faced on the CapEx side, with delivery delays, with supply chain delays. This is reflected in the numbers, overall. Tanja?
Coming back to the CapEx question, it's a normal procedure within a company that there are always so-called balancing activities also in the CapEx area. The CapEx balancing that we have actually put into action does not have any negative impact on our efficiency program. Coming back to your first question, Mr. Mauder, concerning the storage fees. I would not call it normalization. What we see as a normalized level is basically the level that we always measured to in 2019, and this is an average of a couple of years. This is our normalized level. What we have seen due to market development are indeed exceeding levels, especially in 2021 and 2022.
Compared to 2022, we see in 2023, let's say a softening development of the 2022 levels, but it's still not at a normalized level of 2019. This is, I think, the best answer we can give, because for sure a disclosure of the absolute amount would include competitive relevant information. You understand that we cannot do this. Thank you.
Understood. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
The next question comes from Marc Zeck from Stifel. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hello, and thank you for taking my questions and a very warm welcome to you, Ms. Dreilich. I'm afraid I need to kind of dwell a bit on the questions Niko already asked. Like to take them one by one. On the Intermodal revenue, you said, basically that energy consumption costs are somewhat related to the higher revenue per container Intermodal. Now, cost per container clearly came down the first quarter versus the third quarter. Let's say EBIT per container in Intermodal was really, really high in the fourth quarter. It seems like you kind of got higher revenues, as you said to your customers, energy costs are high, but then energy costs kind of that you actually had came down.
Should we expect this then to, just to be a temporary effect and then in 2023, to reverse somewhat? If so, yeah, I kind of struggle a bit to see revenue then up in Intermodal actually. If you can help me to understand this point a bit better, that would be my first question.
Okay. Thank you for the question. Obviously, pricing is fueled by different elements. In different regions within Europe, you have different approaches in the market with regards to energy costs. We have seen that this approach is not only regional differential, but as well is right now in discussion from month to month, from quarter to quarter. We personally believe that the overall average and the assumption that we have envisioned in our planning is reliable, and therefore we are very confident to match our planification.
Okay. And, if I understand that correctly, you're saying that this is not a temporary effect, but...
Uh, well-
Okay.
We have to defend ourselves in the market. you know, if the overall cost is increasing, you know, usually you try to give it to pricing as well into the market.
Okay. But still like those 70 something per container that you achieved in the first quarter in Intermodal, I guess still wouldn't be fair to annualize that 4x and then get what you expect in EBIT in Intermodal, no? There will be some movement between costs and revenue here. That EBIT in Intermodal per container will be somewhat lower than on average than the first quarter.
Well, that's your assumption.
All right. Okay. Then on the dwelling fees in the Container segment, you said you don't expect them to normalize to 2017, 2019 levels anytime soon. Could you explain what is the driver behind that? It was my impression that mainly this the higher dwelling fees were related to port congestion. Would be interesting to know if there's still port congestion in Hamburg right now. If not, what is then driving higher dwelling fees here? Thank you.
Thank you for the question. Obviously the dwelling time depends from many different conditions. Port congestion is one. Right now, we have no port congestion here in Hamburg, but port congestion from other ports originally have been one of the sources for a higher dwell time. In addition, you need to count into this calculation as well the punctuality of container delivery from the hinterland. If you have some stress on the railway side in the hinterland or on the trucking side, or congestion of other areas, this obviously is linked as well then to some logistic challenges within the port. I would like to remind all of you that Corona still is not over.
We experiencing in China in particular a severe grade of infection right now with some not yet port congestions, but difficulties and challenges in particular in the flow of goods to the Chinese ports and from the Chinese ports. We still have some port congestions in the American ports, which are tendency not easy to solve. All of this is still linked with an existing war in the heart of Europe, in Ukraine, with sanctions, and with some further complexity linked to other logistic elements linked to the port and to the war itself. Obviously, reliability of services is always as well linked to the planification of conditions.
We are still far away from saying that there is a stable situation. The good news is for you as an investor, that we as HHLA, we have shown in the past three years that we are reliable in dealing as well with this challenging environment.
Right. Thank you for that. I would be interested to get a more information, let's say, on current trading and, on your guidance that you expect, volumes in the port or in the Container segment to be slightly up year-over-year for 2023.
Sorry, we didn't get your first one. There was some noise in the line. Could you repeat your first part of your question?
Yeah. I would be interested in an update on what's going on with current volumes in the container business. When we listen to what Maersk or Hapag-Lloyd was saying then, volumes in the first quarter was still not really recovering. Also, there's Chinese New Year, obviously. What have you seen in the first quarter in terms of volumes? And given that you guide for an increase, a slight increase in volumes in the Container segment, is it fair to say that you expect quite a significant increase in volumes in the second half of the year? Would you already expect a certain volumes in the second quarter already?
First of all, obviously, you mentioned our customer. Our customer usually do know what the market development are. We can just confirm we had a slow volume start in the first quarter. We all expecting a picking up of volumes, which is not yet predictable when it will start in the second quarter or in the third quarter. It is not a phenomenon of Germany, not of Hamburg, but it is a phenomenon of the North Range here in Europe, which shows you as well that everybody is right now depending on the economic development. Let me outline as well if we talk about 2022.
The Port of Rotterdam has a decline on volumes of - 7%, Hamburg of - 4% and HHLA of - 4%. Sorry, Hamburg of -5% and we as - 4%. That means we have out performed the market last year, and this is as well an assumption looking into 2023, depending on the economic outlook, which right now is difficult to describe, when the volumes are picking up.
All right. Just one last question on the midterm, on the transition at five ambition, as you call it. I guess in the most recent presentations, there was still that EUR 400 million in EBIT feature for 2025. If I look at current Bloomberg consensus, the numbers for 2025, most analysts expect something in the range of EUR 200 million. That's quite a large gap. Could you maybe help us to understand how and why you will make that EUR 400 million in EBIT by 2025?
The last time we published actually our five-year plan, so our mid-year plan was in 2021. Since then, some parameters changed, right? What we will do as a regular, let's say, process, this year, we will for sure go into a strategic review and then for sure also will compute a new midterm plan based on the latest information. Actually then, Mr. Marc, we will definitely let you know and inform you about our view on the midterm development of the company.
Thank you very much.
The next question comes from Christian Cohrs from Warburg Research. Your question, please.
Yes, hello. Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. Maybe spontaneously coming back to your answer just on the midterm targets, you said that you will renew or rework the midterm plan in the course of the year. Can you maybe specify and provide us with an idea of the timeline, and when roughly we should expect you to update this midterm target? Also coming to your question and actually to your comment that you stated HHLA outperformed last year the North Range, and it sounded to me between the lines that you expect something similar for this year. Does this mean that you expect that there will be new services and new port calls? Maybe can you quantify that?
Have you been successful in attracting new customers or additional services and, or is this related to your partnership with COSCO? Any more color on that would be helpful. Then a question on your logistics business, actually. It is, yeah, it is more or less continuously loss-making. Don't you think that it is time to dive deeper into it? I mean, it's about long term, it's about value creation. Honestly, I follow HHLA for a decade by now, and I haven't seen any value creation by this particular segment. Don't you think it is time to restructure and realign that division? Lastly, two questions of understanding. First of all, your feeder ratio was flat in 9M, then it dropped to 19.8% by year-end.
This implies that feeder volumes must have fallen down the cliff in Q4, while OMD volumes in Hamburg must have been stable. Is this a fair assumption? Can you maybe provide also an explanation why feeder was so weak in Q4? Lastly, also a question of understanding your settlement obligation related to the non-controlling interest, the item and the item terminal, is now by zero. Is this just a coincidence, or is there any contractual change, any accounting change we must be aware of? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Cohrs. With regards to our outlook 2025, again, as Ms. Dreilich already stated, this outlook was done before some major conditions were changing. We didn't plan with the corona pandemic impacts nor with the war impacts. We are going to revisit on an annual base usually to the year-end those figures, and then we will decide whether we are disclosing and how, and obviously you will be well informed. With regards to your outperformance, this was with regards to 2022. We are looking in 2023 obviously with growing with our customers that we have already in Hamburg. With regards to logistics, as you are such a long visitor of these calls, you have recognized that logistics has changed significantly from the content.
We have companies like Hamburg Port Consulting, which outperforming, is outperforming. We have companies in the new ones, like the iSAM AG, which we have acquired and others. We are already restructuring this company and this segment. The newly builded company, HHLA Next, is just celebrating its first year of existence. We are well already undergoing here a new development and a significantly a positively one. With regard to the feeder volume, December 2022 overall was in Rotterdam, in Antwerp, and in Hamburg, as well as in Bremen, as in Wilhelmshaven, the same development. It was significantly dropping down, and there was as well some impact on some protests that were at the different harbors.
We don't have a special explanation with regard to feeder volume. Ms. Dreilich will answer your question with regard to the CTA.
Yeah. Basically, you were asking is there a contractual change with regard to the non-controlling interest, and the simple answer is yes. Thank you.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. Maybe just a follow-up logistics. If I understood you correctly, then the overall. I know that in your portfolio are some quite strong activities, but in the past, at least there must have been some heavy underperformers, otherwise the overall divisional performance would have been different. If I understood you correctly, then you expect that going forward, the earnings contribution of the entire division will be more favorable than it was in the past, and it will become a meaningful contributor.
Yes.
Okay. Understood. Thank you.
The next question comes from Jean-Marc Müller from JMS. Please go ahead.
Thank you for taking my question. I have to come back to the minorities. I mean, first of all, I noticed that the minorities were actually quite high in Q4, and higher than in Q1, Q2, Q3. I mean, obviously driven by a somewhat higher result in Q4 as well. That probably does not explain why minorities has been so high. If this is mainly the 25% stake of Hapag-Lloyd in CTA, you know, if I basically do the math and I say, "Okay, what is CTA actually producing in net profit?" It's around EUR 160 million. You, as a group, produce EUR 120 million of net profit before minorities, which means the rest must be deeply loss-making. If you could comment on that as well.
Going forward in 2023, I mean, how do you see capacity utilization for the different terminals? I mean, should we expect minorities to be at a similar level? Basically everything which is not CTA is actually going worse even more than in 2022? Will there be kind of evenly split between the different terminals? Thank you.
Thank you for your question. It shows me that there is some misunderstanding. Ms. Dreilich will clarify this, please.
Basically, we have only one major non-controlling interest stake overall within HHLA. This is, as you said, related to Hapag-Lloyd, and it's only related to one terminal. What you are describing is for sure a different phasing over the year, yeah? What we explained in all of our publications is that there is some seasonality in revenues and as such, as well in the EBIT development.
Basically there is just a non-controlling interest this year which is or in 2022, that is higher than in 2021. Reflecting also for sure the volume developments of the different geographical areas. Please remember there is a war still ongoing. For instance, the American activities towards the U.S. are not that, let's say, burdened as other activities. This is also for sure then reflected in the journals and the activities there. Thank you.
Okay. Going forward, I mean, would you expect minorities to be, I mean, in 2023, to be at the similar level as they were in 2022?
No.
Okay. Thank you.
There are no further questions at this time, and I hand back to Angela Titzrath for closing comments.
Ladies and gentlemen, although we continue to face challenges in 2023, working in logistics means being able to deal with volatility. In recent years, we laid the foundations that allowed us to approach this year with confidence and courage. HHLA is already shaping the logistics of the future, our investments in sustainable, innovative business activities are an essential part of this. We will continue to pursue this course and do all we can to enhance the intrinsic value of HHLA. Thank you very much for your interest and your ongoing support for HHLA. Please stay healthy and take care. Goodbye.
Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the conference call on the full year results 2022. Thank you very much for joining, and have a pleasant day. Goodbye.