Okay, so welcome to the Hypoport SE 2024 Preliminary Results of Hypoport. I have to start this, this recording here by myself for now. Jan Pahl, you all know him, has some technical issues, so he can't introduce me, but, well, we will handle this together here. Okay, as you are aware already, because you read already our communication from the morning, Hypoport had a strong year 2024. We had a double-digit growth again, as you are used to be, as we are all used to be, and, closed with solid numbers. Core reason for this positive development, were the real estate and mortgage business, where we saw a significant recovery of the market. The trend has turned, and, after the worst mortgage years for decades, 2024 was a certain uplift again.
We used this, added our market share gains, and used our new cost level for an outperformance on the profitability side. Financial platform and insurance platforms as well distributed positive impact to the group level, on their level. Okay, let's start right away with the most important area, real estate and mortgages. The segment is linked to the German housing market. Just to memorize it, German housing is linked to net migration to Germany, to a high demand from the existing population to acquire their first home when they are triggered. Triggered means, typically when they expect children and want to create their nest. Germans buy once in a lifetime, and they still do this. Nothing changed in this dynamic in 2024. What changed in 2024 is that, historically, 58% of Germans are living in a renting market. Only 42% choose to acquire their own home.
In our current environment of regulation for rents, we are in a locked situation of the renting market. People have pretty old, low renting contracts, do not leave their apartments anymore, so new families cannot move in because nothing comes to the market. This leads to the fact that more and more middle-class families, when they are triggered, need to choose to go for the homeowner market. They cannot rent again. This closed renting market is a massive change in the environment here in Germany, and going forward will influence the size of the mortgage market significantly. We saw this in 2024 for the first time that it had an impact. Will the renting market stay closed? As this is a pretty certain guess for the upcoming years, it would create massive social tension if we would lift the rent regulations here.
The just newly, newly voted government of CDU and SPD announced already that they will keep the rent regulation as it is for the next years. There is no chance of a deregulation in this area in the current political setting. This leads, as well, to the withdrawal of private landlords from this market because of the unattractiveness compared to the yields that you get in other areas of investments. A significant amount of properties which come to the market is from small landlords not re-renting anymore. From the consumer side, the environment regarding the affordability of homeownership improved in 2024. We saw a slightly lower interest level compared to 2023 and a pretty stable environment here. This was helpful. On the other side, incomes improved, increased because of the inflation in 2022 and 2023.
With a certain time lag, it comes to the income level. People have higher incomes, interest rates are lower, real estate prices are stable or trickling up just. The affordability of houses, homes, condos, significantly improved in 2024. With this, the number of transactions. Last but not least, the regulatory environment for homeownership in Germany did not change in 2024. It stayed as worse as it was in 2023. We have an absurd high tax on acquiring your first home or any other additional later home. You pay 6.5% property acquisition tax. This is ridiculous. We have not had any significant support programs from the government for households, which have an affordability issue. This was all limited really to niche markets, which did not fit the demand of the consumer side. No support as it was before.
Regarding the regulation of rent, of building efficiency, we saw a hold in 2024, but this after a terrible discussion in 2023. As well, on the low level, stability. With all this, it's actually remarkable how the market recovered in 2024 already, in the buying area. Later, more about this. A view on just the charts and the numbers, just to visualize what it means. Stable interest rate, in 2023, it was more around 3.5%, the best rate here in Germany for 10-year mortgages. In 2024, it was around 3%. Still more than in the extremely low interest rate environment of 2022 and earlier. It was taking some burden and people as well got used to the new reality that their interest rates are back. It's not interest-free anymore in this environment.
With the pressure on the renting market, on the lower right side, you see all-time low in renting units available to the market. The attractiveness of the properties for sales, which had a new high in numbers, is just there. When you have, when you got triggered and you have the choice, staying where you are, no solution renting market, you consider more and more to realize your dream to have your own property. You have a wide choice right now, something which was not there a few years ago. As well, positive for the market, the prices trickle up, especially in metropolitan areas. We saw an uplift in average of 5% for condos, which are usually in metropolitan areas, while single-family homes increased in prices just roughly 3%. Below this, in the rural areas. All in all, stable price environment.
If you buy, you are not risking for sharp price declines, which may come, something which delayed the market or slowed down the market in 2023. What you can see as well, new building, so new construction of homes, prices for this still high, even in the last six months, trickling up again. It is still a huge spread between the existing homes and the new homes to be built, which let people who usually would build something new still buy something old because of the discount they get for existing properties. When you see the development here in the last three years, there is a significant spread of 15%, you can say. This means a room more for the children or not.
How the market performed in this, we closed with 21% increase in transaction in, in market volume, reported by Bundesbank, EUR 189 billion, EUR 50 billion per quarter. You see, in this chart since, the last, for the last five years, indexed and inflation adjusted, that we are still below everything which we saw since 2019. We are roughly on the level of 2017 when you look on the market. On the other side, EUROPACE grew last year by 27%, so outperformed the market significantly again. On the long range for the last five years, you can see the outperformance. We are with EUROPACE on the transaction volume of the year 2020 now. We recovered significantly better than the overall market. How we recovered significantly better as well.
The total volume plus of 37% is distributed by three major sales channels. Our own franchise network under the brand Dr. Klein grew by 30%. Second best recognized independent mortgage brand here in Germany, and keeps taking market share from traditional banking branches. While the banking branches, especially of the regional banks, savings and cooperative banks, we still migrate. We are successful in both of the sectors to onboard sales structures to EUROPACE in both roughly + 50% and new record high volumes for both of them. When you see this, you can add up and say, okay, who lost? You can say the major weak point of the year 2024 was our traditionally large cooperative partner, Deutsche Bank, who still struggles to re-enter the mortgage broker market.
Thanks to a technical issue in the summer of 2023, they left the market and still they are not back. This is the reason why EUROPACE only grew by 27%. Without this issue, we would be above the 30% of Dr. Klein as well. When we look on the side, for what the mortgages are used, so what we fund or finance actually, it is remarkable to see that the purchase area of the market is from the volume on EUROPACE already back to the pre-crisis level. With these two quarters of EUR 13 billion in the second half of this year, we are in line with the record levels before this crisis. In general, you can say in the market, the number of transactions is still below the pre-crisis level, significant, roughly 20%.
The prices are as well below. You saw the price chart, something 10%-15% in average prices are still lower than in the pre-crisis environment. What changed is the structure of the purchase market. While before the crisis, a lot of investors, German small landlords or international investors bought as well properties and increased the transaction volume of this market. In 2024, the investment part, especially of foreigners, is heavily distressed. Foreigners buying in Germany is a very untypical moment right now in this market. The domestic demand for housing in this purchase market is relatively higher. This has a much higher probability to be transacted by Europeans than foreigners. The mortgage market, our mortgage market, our part of the mortgage market profits from this change.
When we are looking forward, we expect this to soon outperform the pre-crisis level because, and I said this earlier, family can't rent anymore. They need to buy. It is not a foreigner buying to let. It is a domestic, living, family, which buy their own property now. This shift in the market will improve the volume of the market in the purchase area. Now, to the three other ones. Still distressed is the new construction, new construction area. We saw a healing process of single-family homes being built in the second half of 2024, but still we are 50% below pre-crisis level. Especially in the area of condos. New construction of multifamily homes, which are sold separately in condos, is on a historic low level right now.
There was no recovery in 2024 for this part of the market, because of, actually the lack of, international investors as well. The demand side is still too weak on the current price level. You saw the construction cost 15% outperformed the market price. They still need to, again, need to close that, land plus construction is affordable compared to the existing stock of property. It will trickle up in 2025, by sure, but we still need a long recovery process until we are back to the pre-crisis level. The pre-crisis level was not sufficient for the market. We need 500,000 units finished every year in Germany. The goal of the last government was 400,000 units. They reached in 2022. On this record high level, if you want to say so, 300,000 units financed and later built per year.
Right now we finance 150,000 units. We are lacking massively in financing of construction. What we are not financing right now, what we did not finance in 2024 will not be built in 2025 or 2026. With this in mind, we are pretty certain that the price pressure on the existing property stock will increase. The 5% which we saw this year in uplifting prices will be the lower end of our expectation for 2025. This is lifting up the mortgage volume per mortgage as well. Next, still distressed area of the market is the refinancing area. You are aware of this already. I think that in the years 2012 until 2015, people usually already closed 15 years mortgages in Germany, not the typical 10 because it was pretty cheap already there at this time.
People with this 15 years mortgage do not need to refinance right now. They can still wait a couple of years until 2027 for the 2012 cohort. With this in mind, it is actually pretty logic why people do not refinance right now when they still have time. This may change, this will change in 2027, abruptly if we do not see a lower interest rate earlier. We will recover to the pre-crisis level of refinancing volume, plus higher volumes because of market growth since then. Last area, modernization for the decarbonization of our homeownership stock, something where we would need EUR 20 billion in investments per quarter. With our market share, EUR 5 billion-EUR 6 billion we should see on the platform. We do not see this. It was a massive goal of the last government. They failed terribly.
They, as you can see, even reduced the investments done in this area with their actions. And it's not really on the agenda of the new government right now for the next four years. I would not expect a recovery in the upcoming years of the modernization and the investments in our household stock. This will come later. We need to decarb until 2045, maybe 2050 if we go back to the EU goal. This is a massive investment that in some moment needs to be done. We need the reduction from the dependency of gas and petrol. Well, something to wait for as an improvement of the market in the upcoming years for us then. Okay. Last structural view, our position in the sales side of the market and in the comparison to the moment eight years ago.
Market was overall a little bit bigger at this time still. You see, not inflation adjusted, where we are inflation adjusted, they are pretty similar then. You see that our market share in the broker area improved slightly. What was more relevant for the total numbers is that the brokers grew massively in this time from roughly 20% to now close to 30% market share. They outperform the bank branches. We are their backbone. We profit from this trend. This trend is going to continue in the upcoming years. Brands like Dr. Klein will take market share from the banks. The other two major achievements that we had in the last eight years now are our significant role in the cooperative banking sector and in the savings bank sector, up from close to nothing to now a quarter in eight years.
With the strong performance, last year 50%. We plan to continue this and to get the whole sectors, both of the sectors together with our joint venture partners on the platform. Now after all this good news from 2024, a little bit mixed review on our performance in the property valuation area. You are aware of this. We entered this to integrate this in the mortgage process. We still believe that this is the best solution for the market when we integrate the mortgage process and the property valuation process in one seamlessly integrated digital process. We made huge steps forward in 2024 to integrate this. Still a long way to go. Unfortunately, it is a very regulated process in Germany.
Second, we choose to enter this market labor intensive. This was under the assumption that we have a stable market environment, a pretty secure approach. We hadn't had a stable environment. We got a crisis, 50% down in the market with a lot of labor in Germany, nothing to deal easy with. With the strategic goal to play a role here and to integrate these processes, we had to stay and we had to restructure. 2023 was painful. 2024, we improved significantly. Still, we are away and will not be neutral from the profitability perspective in this year. We progressed significantly. We see and we see that we can make this business profitable. Plus, with the integration in EUROPACE, we provide a solution for partners where even EUROPACE is profiting from a better process thanks to the integration. We will keep going forward here.
We will again massively reduce the losses in 2025. We can be sure about this already because the projects for this are already finished. It is a certain thing that is going to happen. With further digitalization of the process and integration, we are sure that in 2026 we can reach breakeven. For the segment in total, it was a well-positioned year in the transition. Double-digit growth, including the losses in revenue and gross profit in value, we grew by 26%, outperforming the market. We massively increased profitability. You see our new cost structure here. The market is still on the level of 2016, 2017. At this time, we did not earn this amount of money in these units. If you exclude the cost of Value AG, we had EUR 35 million in 2024.
With an expected dynamic in this market, which is similar this year to last year, so a double-digit growth again, we expect that this is going to fast have a positive impact on the total group level as well and distribute the major uplift in profitability, which we expect for the group. More about this later.
Okay. Financing platform. First, part is the housing association industry, an industry which is responsible for social housing. Normally for the last years, you should expect massive investments in social housing. Did not happen because of the regulatory environment of rents and the lack of subsidies. This industry, even when it is needed, is not investing right now. In 2024, even a lower investment year than already in 2023, which was a crisis. The total investment declined in this industry.
We kept our financed volume, our transaction volume stable, EUR 1.2 billion. This is already a success. It means we took market share in this sector again. We had a core broker there. The other options are just going directly to banks. All other brokering offerings are small and more or less irrelevant. Parallel, we develop and scale up a system for managing rent deposits for housing associations in close cooperation with the banks. The amount of rent deposits which are within our platform increased again. We take market share. It's in small steps, but in a steady process, we roll this out in the industry. It will be especially interesting in combination with our ERP system, which is pretty new to the market and a huge success right now.
We could lift our numbers of units under contract to 460,000 last year. This was a speed uplift compared to the previous years again. A net gain in 120,000 units. This is already a big achievement. We are the core aggressor in this market with a lot of outdated ERP systems, all belonging to the same group now. Housing associations feel great about our offering. We have the most modern system. It is an open system. You can freely integrate it with a lot of third-party solutions, which gets a seamlessly experience for your client, high efficiency in usage, and all this out of the internet working around the globe. This is something which is just appealing, and already all migration slots for 2025 and already the beginning of 2026 are sold out to clients.
Even more, even more successful, you will see this unit when you know that we announced just two weeks ago that we crossed 501,000 units now. The speed of migration, the speed of signing up for our ERP platform is high and it's a huge success. We still invest here. This is last year, 2024. We still recognize the loss of EUR 4 million here, because it's a business model where you generate long-term recurring revenue and we build this up. With this in mind, we are happy about this investment. Right now we are scaling up the speed of ramping this up to conquer as much as possible of a market of 6 million units here in Germany.
Second, part of the segment is our financing for small and now German Mittelstand, corporate finance corporates here in Germany, with then, distressed market environment, you can say, German industry, German companies were really angry with the regulatory environment, the German government and EU, created in during the last years. Since three quarters in 2024, we were in a recession because of a lack of investments done. The government response was weak, not there, you can say, and in the end led to the new voting, which we saw at the end of 2024. All government is gone. We feel a positive sentiment now, but for the last year we have to report terrible numbers. The already not very strong market environment of 2023 was even more distressed in 2024, more than, you can see even in these numbers.
Yeah, our project volume declined by 24% on a long-term grow low. Normally we are in a growth path here and acquire more outlook. As soon as the government, the new government is established, it's clear that we invest EUR 500 billion in infrastructure. A lot of these projects, which we acquired here already and are in the pipeline, we go forward. There is a huge potential of uplift here, when we coming back to an industry, a politics vision in favor of the industry and not ties to regulated way. Last product segment, the personal loan business, as well distressed market environment, three months, three quarters of recession, doesn't give consumers confidence to borrow something. Banks are as well more critical about the quality of borrowers with a recession, recessive environment, even here in Germany.
It is a great success that we, in a stagnating market environment, grew by 12% in the transaction volume. We lost some of this, thanks to a version in the transition. Too many loans were not approved finally, of banks then because of their change of credit criteria. In overall, it delivered a revenue growth and the profit growth, this segment. Potential is great with our approach to use banks and offer them a third-party solution for their networks, for their sales structure to meet all their demand, not just with their own product.
In total, the financing segment provided the, and this is all in this market environment which was really worsened compared to 2023, a small growth and a significant uplift in profitability thanks to a very, very intensive cost management program, which the whole segment ran to outperform the previous year here.
Last segment, insurance business. You are aware of this, three product areas we are addressing. The main from a volume size, typical personal insurance, where we see a growth path in migration, still far below what we expect, but we continue double-digit growth to bring a contract on our platform, typically still from our on-premise solution, which migrates to the system. Validation, the share of validation is as well improving.
This is the link, not just to the sales side, but as well to the insurer side so that the data are validated and with this, automation is possible. Otherwise, you're operating on non-validated data, which is just crap. Second, second offering of this segment in the market is occasional insurance business, where we see a strong growth, 34% in volume. It's a market where we are right now in a dual pole. Two platforms are offering this, servicing this sector. We see as well positioned to be one of the two survivors in the end. The other is a startup. Let's see if they get their next funding, which they soon will need. Corify is our industrial insurance business. So everything what doesn't go in standardized policies, where it's auctioned risk, special risk of special, of industry groups.
Here we established a new platform. In 2003, we started it in a beta. We expected it to break through in 2024. It has still not broken through. We have four large cooperating partners, industrial insurance brokers on the system now for the first module. It is still a too slow process to see this already as a full success. Success is delayed, but we are still on track of signing up more of them. We expect 2025 now to be the breakthrough year for this unit. In total, insurance business slightly optimized its profitability, left some business behind which does not fit in our long-term strategy. Growth delivered, so that revenue and gross profit are more or less stable.
For 2025, we expect a positive year, slightly improved growth speed and, as well, in profitability and again an uplift in the contribution to our general improvement of profitability for the group. At total group level, a better year than 2023, but yeah, 2023 was the worst year in our history. We are back on track, growing and using all opportunities in the market, which we already invested in. We are still very conservative doing something new. We want to see new record high levels in profitability before we start investing in new innovations in these three industries. For now, we will keep doing what we did in 2024 successfully and bring this in 2025.
With this in mind, in a historic context, 2024 got close to the record high gross profit in 2021 already, but you see our massive investment since then, and inflation in the end as well. With this cost base, for our employee base. For the profitability side, we are still significant away from the, from a record high level for 2025, gross profit. We will see a new record for EBIT. It will take us still until 2026. Yeah, how we will achieve this in 2025 and 2026. First of all, at the major support we will get from the market. We expect for 2025 an uplift to EUR 220 billion in mortgage volume here in Germany, up from EUR 189 billion in 2024.
Plus 10%, you can say this is less than the 21%, which we saw last year, but the 10% uplift is, under all circumstances and all risk on the political side and geopolitical side, a solid number for the German market. In January, Bundesbank reported EUR 19.7 billion. So in line with our expectation for EUR 220 billion this year. After this, we are certain that we will see a recovery of the market back to the old growth trend, thanks to increasing prices in the market, thanks to the migration of previously renters to the homeownership market here in Germany, thanks to a delayed but coming recovery of the construction side. New homes need to be built with a constant net migration to our metropolitan areas, and thanks to a recovery of the refinancing market.
Just with this, we will reach the EUR 75 billion-EUR 100 billion area, which we are coming from, inflation adjusted already. The uplift, the potential uplift of high investments in energy efficiency comes on top and would bring us faster in this area. As it looks for now, the next four years will not be a time where we heavily invest there as a German society. For the different platforms, this is a summary of what we expect, strongest performance from real estate and mortgages to the group level and some support from financing platform and insurance in addition. In total, we expect the record EUR 270 million in gross profit for this year. This still with the mortgage market, which is on the level of 2018. You see the potential, I would say.
We expect to double our EBIT to the area of EUR 30 million-EUR 36 million this year. Beside this, what comes from the market, these are a lot of projects which we, across the group, we are driving forward in 2024. We have a pretty solid expectation here. Yeah, 2026, expect us to return to double-digit growth, keep this. I personally expect for 2026 a new record high profitability level. Let's finalize this when we saw the 2025 numbers and hopefully everything globally and local here in the world is going fine up until then.
Yeah, I would start now the Q&A for you. For this, I need to close this here. Switch this off. Okay. Jan can't moderate us. I hope you know that you should please put your questions in the Q&A. Yeah, Jan wrote this. I see here two questions.
The first question is about the impact of the German infrastructure fund of EUR 500 billion, which still needs to be confirmed, on the real estate sector in Germany.
Let's say in general, this should be infrastructure investments, public investments, but as well enabling, enhancing private investments. We expect a massive impact on the corporate finance side, because there is the major potential for the uplift. We expect as well as support for the housing construction sector with a certain level of delay, let's say. Yeah. The focus there should be homeownership, so single family houses, families to support families to build a new home and as well social housing, both markets we address. In the end, you can say everything that is not going into bridges and schools will be investments in areas where we are active in the German market.
The second question is about if we saw any negative impact on the mortgage lending volume because of the recent interest rate change.
To be fair, it's too early to ask this question. In general, the uplift in Bund of 50 basis points resulted in roughly 35 basis points uplift in prices for mortgages. Fifty, thirty-five is a significant uplift and was fast. You can say it shocked the market. Every consumer who had an open offer and could accept it will have accepted it, which brings us to, for a couple of days, higher transaction volumes than usual. This was just the last days, you can say. Going forward, mortgage rates are now again 35 basis points more expensive than they were a week ago. This may delay some demand..
It's not so significant that it's really a massive change in the cost structure. When you look on the interest rate chart for 2023 and 2024, you see that we are still in a medium area with this 30-35 basis points mark. We were quite on the lower end before this interest rate hike happened. I would expect a couple of days or weeks of some delay, but not a lasting impact on the mortgage volume this year. As well, let's say the increase in interest rate for whole Europe in this moment, for all governments, for all government bonds, could be interpreted a little bit as an overreaction taken to consideration that this is just a budget plan.
It's not that the German government is going to lend to borrow this EUR 900 billion right away. This is something which is going to happen in the next years. With this in mind, I would say there is a certain chance as well that we see some normalization as well on the interest rate side.
The next question is about our operational cost in the real estate segment, real estate and mortgage segment.
In general, we keep focusing on the current activities. We are not expanding into new areas. We are not starting new products right now. We first want to see a higher general profitability of our units, including real estate and mortgages. At this stage, there will be an inflation-based uplift in costs.
I would say as well a small number, a small percentage, of uplift in cost because of the normalization of the market and some functions where we are linked to market volumes. In general, we keep the cost pressure high. Expect a mid single digit increase in our cost side.
If you have any further question, you need to use the chat today. I will give you a moment. Someone is typing. If not, right now, you can ask your question anytime to Jan Pahl. You will hear his voice on the phone. He is here as well, listen to me, but cannot talk.
There is a question. If Q4 profitability met our expectation for the group, and if not, why? Actually, it met our expectation. It was a good, final quarter.
We saw a solid market in real estate and mortgage business. We could realize a lot of projects, Value AG progressed in their profitability level. In general, we were fine with this, how we finished Q4. Our strategic perspective on Value AG and future synergies, we entered the property valuation market to provide an integrated solution to banks. We powered a whole mortgage process from first contact of the client. We established the touchpoint to digitalize the touchpoint with the client for all mortgage advisors, brokers, and in banks here in Germany. We power the advisor, we power the loan officer, and Value AG has the goal to power as well the evaluator, appraiser.
We don't see any other feasible solution in the market with this perfect integration along the value chain. This is the strategic goal for Value AG. In small steps under a massive regulatory framework, we progress here. This will not just turn Value AG cash flow positive, profitable. It will turn EUROPACE into a very powerful solution when you compete with the fragmented solution where the appraisers and evaluators are not integrated in the process, where all the information that are needed in the mortgage process are coming from third parties, and you have a patchwork situation in your mortgage process. EUROPACE will deliver this all out of one hand, fully integrated in one solution. This will make EUROPACE stronger.
In the end, it will create a business model for Value AG, which will be less labor intensive for us. We will outsource labor again in this process in a couple of years, but it will be profitable and contribute to the overall group level and to our strategy.
Next question. Okay. Why we do not expect the market volume to go more than 10%, especially after the strong general figures. We issued our expectation for this year before Bundesbank issued the January numbers. We saw a strong January. We agree with Bundesbank. Yeah, but to be honest, there are as well certain uncertainties. Would I say right now that the chance for a larger growth in the mortgage market is higher than below our expectation? Yes.
But with all what we see in the geopolitics and as well the still uncertainty in forming a new government here in Germany, am I certain about this, that this will, EUR 230 billion or EUR 240 billion this year? No. We stay with our expectation for now. This is integrated and then we see a positive 2024 in the upcoming months. First, we will see it with our quarterly results. Second, we will adjust our expectation for this year if necessary.
Okay. Market share growth of EUROPACE this year and next year. You saw our transaction volume growth outperforming the market in 2024. We expect this year to outperform the market again. When market is up this 10%, which we for now guide, we expect the transaction volume growth of something around 20% in Germany.
10% outperformance of the market is our goal every year. This is in the end the part of our current expectation for this year. In the long run, the outperformance of the market needs to slow down because our share is getting too significant. Even when you can't compare transaction volume and Bundesbank numbers perfectly because transaction volume is pre-cancellation and Bundesbank volume integrates as well certain credit volume, which is not new mortgages, there is a link between these two, but you see that something between 25% and 30% is already going through EUROPACE. With this, our outperforming track record is going to slow down when we get closer to 60%-70% of the market. This is still far away. For now, we keep our 10% outperformance as a goal year- over- year.
Now nobody is typing. Thanks for your questions in this English slot as well. Hopefully next time, Jan is moderating again. If you have any questions, come back to us. For now, I thank you for your attention. We are here again in two months, hopefully with a new government here in Germany already, hopefully with no huge global events up until then so that we see a stable start, a solid start in 2025 and have a positive outlook for this year. Thank you guys. See you then. Bye bye.