LEG Immobilien SE (ETR:LEG)
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Earnings Call: Q4 2023

Mar 11, 2024

Operator

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for standing by. I am Francine, your conference call operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the LEG conference call. Throughout today's recorded presentation, all participants will be in a listen-only mode. The presentation will be followed by a question-and-answer session. If you would like to ask a question, you may do so by pressing star and 1. Press the star key followed by 0 for operator assistance. It is my pleasure to turn the conference over to Mr. Frank Kopfinger, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

Frank Kopfinger
Head of Investor Relations, LEG Immobilien SE

Thank you, Frank, and good morning, everyone from Düsseldorf. Welcome to our full year 2023 results call, and thank you for your participation. We have in the call our entire management team with our CEO Lars von Lackum, our CFO Kathrin Köhling, as well as our COO Volker Wiegel. You find the presentation document as well as the annual report within the IR section of our homepage. Please note that there is also a disclaimer which you'll find on page three of our presentation. Without further ado, I hand it over to you, Lars.

Lars von Lackum
CEO, LEG Immobilien SE

Thank you, Frank, and good morning also from my side. I will kick off today's presentation by summarizing the key highlights. Afterwards, Kathrin and Volker will provide you with more details on our strong operations and financials. Let me start on slide 6. In 2023, we harvested the fruits of our strategy shift announced in November 2022. The focus was on cash generation and preservation to make us weatherproof for different adverse scenarios for LEG and the residential industry in 2023. Today, I am proud to say that our cash is king strategy fully paid out. We have not only reached an AFFO of EUR 181.2 million, which is substantially above our initial guidance range of EUR 110 million-EUR 125 million. At the same time, we delivered on our investment guidance of EUR 35 per square meter, as well as on our EBITDA margin of 80.6%.

Therefore, we are convinced that based on a resilient business model and the right business setup of the company, LEG can resume dividend payments for 2023. Together with the supervisory board, we will propose a dividend of EUR 2.45 per share to the annual general meeting in May. This is in line with our dividend policy representing 100% of the AFFO while keeping net proceeds from disposals of around EUR 55 million to strengthen the company's balance sheet. We consider this proposal to be a balanced approach between a cash return for our shareholders and capital preservation to strengthen the balance sheet at the same time. I would also like to focus your interest on some further highlights. Firstly, our business model is one of the most robust in European real estate.

As a provider of affordable housing in Germany, we benefit from the strongly increasing demand for our product and the outstanding performance of our platform, allowing to manage our asset base most efficiently. The results are reflected in another decline of the vacancy rate to a once-again record low of 2.4%. At the same time, rents on a like-for-like basis increased by 4%. This includes an 80 bps contribution from the cost rent adjustment for our subsidized units. Our cash-geared steering and our excellent operations ensured the generation of a strong operating cash flow of EUR 447.9 million, a strong increase of 15.1% compared to 2022. Secondly, in the second half of 2023, we saw another devaluation of our standing assets of 4.9%. This is in line with guidance given in last November of 4%-6%. For the full year 2023, the devaluation amounts to 11.9%.

Taking into account the expected rent increases for 2024, our portfolio is approaching an attractive gross yield of around 5% from a very resilient business model. However, devaluation impacted LTV and increased it to 48.4%. This is above our midterm target of 45%, and as a management team, we are committed to bring it back to its target level in the midterm. For the time being, we consider LEG to be well positioned due to our excellent operating platform securing substantial cash generation, as well as a robust financing structure taken care of by Kathrin and her team. Thirdly, we made good progress on our ESG strategy. As the first residential company, our targets got approved by SBTi. We kept our focus firmly on striving to develop efficient decarbonization tools. In 2023, we saved around 8,700 tons of CO2.

Accordingly, we reduced our CO2 footprint further down to 27.3 kilograms CO2 per square meter on a market-based standard. In comparison to our midterm goals, we are ahead on our track for climate neutrality in 2045. You might want to spend a second to look at a short update on our ESG achievements, which we included in the appendix. Finally, we confirm our guidance for 2024. We continue to expect an AFFO in the range of EUR 180 million-EUR 200 million, which represents an increase by around 5%. Let me move on to slide 7, highlighting some details of our steering as well as the growth drivers for our business going forward. In late 2022, our priority was to shift to a sustainable steering of our business, reflecting the normalization of interest rates and waving a finally goodbye to a negative or zero interest rate environment.

Certainly, we still do not possess a crystal ball. We cannot anticipate and therefore do not bet on certain interest rate scenarios. Instead, we focus exclusively on our business and adjust it to the current interest rate environment accordingly. This is exactly what we did in November 2022, and we are of the opinion that 2023 proved us to be right. Adjustments made to the company's setup are straightforward. In a first step, we focused everyone in the group on cash generation to secure funding of all costs and investments, as well as enabling to resume the dividend. Most of our cash flows is reinvested into our portfolio, ensuring and growing rental income. Independent from the LTV level, be it at the current 48.4% or our midterm target of 45%, we generate sufficient cash to cover total costs and cater for an attractive dividend.

In the new market environment, the focus is exclusively on cash flows. We operate a fully self-funded organization without adding additional debt or being forced to sell assets, i.e., to shrink. In a second step, we assure agility to be able to shift gears whenever there are opportunities from a growth and return perspective. Cash inflows will benefit from several drivers. Firstly, the structural supply-demand imbalance will persist. There is no quick fix available for the structural deficiencies. Based on a study published by Bulwiengesa, a sector intelligence specialist and consultancy, starts of German residential developments crashed by around 75% in Q4 2023. Therefore, not expecting a pickup of state subsidies for new developments and a higher-for-longer interest rate environment, in 2 to 3 years, the completion of new developments might shrink by the same dimension.

Due to the low transaction volumes, we have seen and expect more insolvencies of German developers as well as construction companies. The loss of that know-how and capital will contribute to less and less new units coming to the market, putting more pressure on the demand for existing apartments. The market will remain very tight for years, and that might bring about some serious social implications. We have provided further details on market expectations from various sources in the appendix. The widening supply-demand imbalance will put ongoing pressure on rents and, with a time lag, on rent tables. It is hard to quantify the effects for the near to midterm. However, the effects will gradually surface with each and every new rent table being disclosed. Additionally, LEG will benefit in the midterm from some extra growth drivers. In 2026, the next cost rent adjustment for our subsidized units is due.

In 2028, nearly half of our subsidized units will get off restriction. We provide you with further details in the slides in the appendix. Furthermore, we benefit from a very high collection rate of more than 99% within our core business. As various crises in the recent past, like COVID and last year's energy crisis, have proven, that ratio stays nearly unchanged. So our income stream will grow substantially over the past years, and it is foremost very safe. From our perspective, the growth component of the core business possesses an extremely high predictability, which is not entirely appreciated by investors in general. Finally, we will decisively open new income streams. Since we have begun our ESG journey in 2021, we have actively positioned ourselves as the solution provider for decarbonization of the industry, an industry which has not yet found too many appropriate answers.

With Renowate, our serial refurbishment JV, with Dekarbo, our air-to-air heat pump JV, and Termios, our smart thermostat JV, we will offer efficient decarbonization solutions to third parties. Operating in a very fragmented market, most asset holders are lacking the technical know-how to decarbonize in line with regulation. We offer them efficient plug-in solutions. This will create additional growth beyond the traditional core business. At the same time, we work hard to keep cash outflows under control. With our 2023 results, we have proven that we can manage our cash outflows and mitigate substantial headwinds, especially a higher-for-longer interest rate environment. Interest costs will only rise gradually, and the starting base looks favorable. We still benefit from a low average interest rate of our debt book of 1.58% with an average maturity of 6.2 years.

Due to the progress made last year, there are no refinancings left over in 2024, and we are done until mid-2025. At the same time, we increased our RCF further to now EUR 750 million, completely undrawn, and we benefit from a high cash level of more than EUR 400 million. Therefore, we did the utmost to protect our financing structure from adverse events, but also to improve and keep flexibility overall. Additionally, we strictly adjusted our investment spending. This was not only for the sake of cash savings, but shifting our investment approach to optimize rental growth and, in parallel, to improve the CO2 yield, i.e., the amount of CO2 saved per euro spent. Putting this all together, ceteris paribus, this model allows us to generate positive cash flows reflected in the AFFO metric. We provide you with full transparency on our cash generation capability.

We will stay away from any major minorities which need to be fed. We abstain from complexity within the company, requiring taking intragroup cash flows into account. As this model is boringly simple and ultra-transparent, we decided to resume a dividend payment in 2024 for 2023. The proposed EUR 2.45 dividend per share represents 100% of the AFFO. We retain the around EUR 55 million net proceeds from disposals to strengthen the company's capital base. We propose to offer a scrip dividend again, as that element benefits all existing shareholders. With this, the expected liquidity effect of around EUR 120 million-EUR 130 million is small in group context. The payout has no material effect on the cash generation and cost-absorbing potential of the group and is also minor with regard to its LTV impact. Transaction markets have, unfortunately, been quiet all year long.

Transaction volume in the German residential space saw a mere EUR 5 billion of transactions, the lowest level since 2010. In 2023, we saw the return of family offices and North American investors leading at least to some activity in the market. We see first small green shoots of improving interest at the beginning of this year, but admittedly, coming from very low levels. Ultimately, there are some indications that local and smart money is already back. Once the transaction market opens, we can certainly increase our disposals. But we do not want to provide you with disposal targets. As of today, we are quite confident that we can realize more disposals than last year. However, just to reiterate, we do not need to support cash generation by selling assets. Proceeds from disposals purely serve three purposes.

They support the capital base, help to add to the potential dividend, and to recycle capital for reinvestments at more attractive terms. With this, I leave you with my views on our setup and prospects, and I hand it over to Volker.

Volker Wiegel
COO, LEG Immobilien SE

Thanks, Lars, and good morning to all of you. I will start on slide 9 with LEG's portfolio transactions in 2023. Despite the very challenging residential real estate market, we managed to sell in total around 2,000 units for total proceeds of EUR 155 million. A little bit more than half of it in value terms, i.e., EUR 18 million, saw their transfer of ownership already in 2023 and are cash flow-wise fully reflected in our numbers. Those represent circa 1,300 units and led to net proceeds of EUR 55 million, as Lars already mentioned.

The remainder, i.e., EUR 75 million, representing about 700 residential units and some commercial units, will have their transfer of ownership in 2024. This means that we have already realized a similar disposal value for 2024 than in 2023. All those disposals had been executed at book values, as we do not want to give away shareholder value to the buyer. As a reminder, the bulk of our properties earmarked for sale is in the higher yielding category. We are talking about assets in regions with subdued structural development potential or assets in weak technical conditions. The waterfall chart shows divestments of 1,409 units.

The difference between the 1,409 units and the roughly 1,300 units, which left our portfolio due to transfer of ownership, is due to reclassification from residential to commercial assets, merging of residential units, and also due to tearing down one multifamily building in Gelsenkirchen supported by subsidies from the state of North Rhine-Westphalia. The majority of the slightly above 900 additions to the portfolio are finished new construction projects. The remaining cash outflow for new construction until end of 2025 is around EUR 18 million. Beyond 2025, there's nothing left in our new construction pipeline. To approach also institutional investors with a stronger appetite for new development projects and high energy efficiency, we started to market also some newly finished developments in the market. Demand for this shows to be healthy. I'm now coming to slide 10.

The like-for-like rent growth in the reporting period was 4% and exceeded the initially given guidance of 3.3%-3.7% and reached the upper end of the latest indication of 3.8%-4%. The in-place rent for our entire portfolio was EUR 6.58 per sq m at the end of the financial year 2023. The average of the asking rents in our core market, North Rhine-Westphalia, end of 2023 were EUR 8.33 per sq m, i.e., 27% above our in-place rent. The 4% like-for-like rent growth comprises of 1.7% from rent table increases, 1.5% from modernization and relettings, and finally, 0.8% from the cost rent adjustment. About 20% of 32,000 units of LEG's residential units are subsidized, i.e., rent-restricted units. For these units, the rent can be increased every three years in 2023 by 5.7% on average.

Until 2028, roughly 20,000 units will run out of rent restriction and offer accordingly significant rent increase potential of around 50%. You find additional information on the subsidized units and the cost rent adjustments in the appendix. Talking about the structure of LEG's portfolio, I would like to remind you, considering regular headlines of even more strict rent increase regulations in the so-called tight markets, that LEG owns only 25,000 free-financed units in these tight markets, which represent only 15% of LEG's entire portfolio. With regard to our three market categories in the free-financed portfolio, rents increased by 3.9% in each in the high growth and stable markets and by 2.8% in the higher yielding markets. For the future, we expect a similar development of the rents in the three market segments.

The rent increase for the free-financed units was positively impacted by dynamic rent table increases in locations with a bigger number of LEG units located there. This includes Bergkamen, with an increase of 14.8%, Castrop-Rauxel with an increase of 18.1%, and Krefeld with an increase of 10.2%. You might want to spend a second on slide 35 in the appendix. We provide you there with an informative overview of expected new rent tables for our top locations to be published by the municipalities sometime between today and end of this year. I'm now on slide 11. Adjusted investments per square meter amounted to EUR 35, fully in line with our guidance. As part of our cash as king strategy, we reduced adjusted investments by 13.8%. This move supported our cash generation by roughly EUR 60 million.

The shift towards the AFFO steering led to a decline in the capitalization ratio from 75% to 59% and, accordingly, to an increase in maintenance expenses. This, again, has a negative impact on the FFO I, but overall, a positive impact on AFFO, which is, as Lars commented on our core KPI, as a very good cash proxy. In comparison to 2021, when we saw the peak in per square meter investments of EUR 42.50, we have meanwhile reduced investments by EUR 7 per square meter or 18% in nominal terms. In real terms, i.e., taking construction price inflation into account, the reduction is in the magnitude of 30%. In the current financial year, we will reduce investments further to EUR 32 per square meter, which implies further savings of around EUR 30 million. Does the reduction in investments have a negative impact on our rent growth?

In 2021 and 2022, the contribution from reletting and modernization to the increase in like-for-like rent was 1.3%. In 2023, even 1.5%. So there's no negative effect on rent growth. Additionally, we significantly exceeded our CO2 reduction target of 4,000 tons in 2023. We managed to reduce our CO2 emissions by 8,700 tons per annum. A significant contribution came from our nudging program, i.e., influencing our tenant heating behavior. With our smart thermostat developed, produced and distributed by Termios, and the air-to-air heat pumps, we have other products in our pipeline which support our target to efficiently improve the CO2 savings per invested euro. We strive for smart and efficient solutions and are less of the opinion to do more of what we as a sector did for the last 10 years, i.e., traditionally modernized buildings. This is why we position ourselves as a solution provider for the decarbonization.

On slide 12, you can see our most relevant operating value-added service companies. Our biomass plant, which, as you know, generated significant profits, is not included here. After an extraordinarily strong year 2022 with an AFFO of EUR 36 million, the AFFO declined to EUR 27 million. This is mainly because our 100% subsidiary ESP, which was negatively affected from the volatility in the energy markets and from higher investments. The results from our multimedia business remained stable, and our joint venture, TechnikServicePlus, managed to increase its AFFO. For the current financial year, we expect an AFFO contribution of these value-added services in about the same magnitude as in 2023. From 2025 onwards, we would expect first bigger contributions from Termios to our services results. And with this, I hand it over to Kathrin.

Kathrin Köhling
CFO, LEG Immobilien SE

Thank you, Volker, and good morning to everyone also from my side.

Let's start it off with the development of our key P&L items on slide 14. In the reporting year, net cold rent was up 4.4% to EUR 834.3 million. This was mostly driven by our strong organic growth. Net additions to our portfolio, meaning new-built apartments less disposals, contributed 40 basis points. The recurring net operating income rose by 3.5% to EUR 683.8 million. On this basis, the NOI margin declined by 60 basis points year-on-year to 82%. This was largely driven by higher operating expenses. Those include non-transferable operating and heating costs, such as CO2 taxes, that cannot be charged to our tenants. Please note that the prior year figure of EUR 660.4 million was adjusted to the calculation method that we have applied since the beginning of the reporting year. The adjusted EBITDA margin came out at 80.6%, well in line with our guidance.

In addition to higher net operating income, our decision on the forward sale of green energy proved beneficial and translated into EUR 20.7 million, which is included in the item net income from other services. Finally, the AFFO, our most important KPI, increased by 66.5% to EUR 181.2 million and therefore came out above the upper end of our guidance range. Please turn to the next slide for the AFFO drivers. The strongest AFFO driver was, of course, the reduction in investment spendings by roughly EUR 60 million, as Volker already mentioned. The rise in net cold rents, as well as the forward sale of green energy, also drove AFFO. This was partly offset by higher operating and admin expenses of EUR 20 million and higher interest expenses of EUR 18 million. Let's now move to slide 16 for the portfolio valuation.

At LEG, we were the first to come forward with a guidance for H2 2023 following a thorough market analysis and intense discussions with our external appraiser, CBRE. With valuation adjustments of -4.9%, we came out virtually at the midpoint of our forecast of -4%-6%. As anticipated, the valuation lost some momentum after a strong depreciation of -7.4% in the first half. For the reporting year as a whole, this equates to -11.9%. From the peak in H1 2022 to year-end 2023, devaluation effects add up to around -15.5%. Like in the first half of 2023, devaluation was strongest in the high growth markets. Our higher yielding markets properties proved to be more resistant to the higher interest rate environment. The valuation process took place against the background of a very subdued transaction market.

With only EUR 5.2 billion, the volume on the residential transaction market was on record low since the year 2010 and also 60% lower than in the year 2022. This only allows indirect conclusions to be drawn about the fair price level. In our DCF model, the object-specific discount rate is now 4.7% after 3.7% in the previous year, reflecting the market development. As you can see from slide 17, we came out at a gross yield of 4.8% for the residential portfolio. We expect rental growth to push this further towards 5% until year-end 2024. And with this, we are back at attractive yield levels ranging from 6.2% in higher yielding markets to 4.0% in our high growth markets. Especially the higher yielding markets offer a very attractive spread towards the 10-year German Bund Yield.

The gross asset value per square meter for our residential properties now stands at EUR 1,619 on average, ranging from EUR 2,207 per square meter in the high growth markets down to EUR 1,129 in the higher yielding markets. The net initial yield, based on the EPRA definition, was 3.8% at year-end 2023. Since the reporting year, this EPRA metric refers to our portfolio as a whole, not only to our residential units. The numbers of the comparative period were adjusted accordingly. Now, please turn to slide number 18 for the financing profile. Thanks to our early refinancing measures in 2023 and also more recently at the beginning of the year, we are now clear of maturities until mid-2025. The remaining secured maturities in 2025 amount to EUR 564 million and will be rolled forward or refinanced. Our convertible of EUR 400 million is only due on September 1st, 2025.

On the liquidity side, our cash at hand, including short-term deposits, amounts to EUR 405.5 million. Following an early prolongation of our syndicated RCF of EUR 600 million in autumn last year for another three years, we could also add two additional working capital lines of EUR 75 million each. This results in a total of EUR 750 million of undrawn facilities . Obviously, we are not going to use the RCF for refinancing, but I believe it is reassuring to see that, in theory, cash and RCFs combined would cover all our maturities until 2026. Furthermore, as another financial cushion, there is still our commercial paper program of EUR 600 million. The chart on the left-hand side shows the distribution of maturities for the next 10 years, which remains very balanced.

Together with our average interest cost at year-end 2023 of 1.58% and our average debt maturity of 6.2 years, we have a strong financing structure in place. Our interest hedging rate of around 94% was virtually unchanged compared to the previous year. The most important financing KPI is, of course, our LTV. As a result of the devaluation of our property portfolio, our LTV on December 31st, 2023, increased to 48.4% compared to 43.9% as of year-end 2022. In November 2023, we set a new medium-term target level for the LTV of 45% to better reflect the changed market environment. We have confirmed this medium-term LTV target with our guidance, and we will steer the company strictly according to this metric. The LTV target was also aligned with Moody's rating methodology. In the meantime, with our current Baa2 rating with a stable outlook, we are still well-positioned as investment grade.

We also feel comfortable with regards to our bond covenants, even with further devaluation if this were to take place. The unencumbered asset ratio, as well as the covenant LTV, which are the tightest covenants, could still bear a valuation decline of around 23%-24%. With this, I hand it over to Lars for the outlook.

Lars von Lackum
CEO, LEG Immobilien SE

Thank you, Kathrin. I'm now on slide 20. For 2023, we delivered in almost all aspects on our promises. You see beats or upper-end attainments of the respective ranges. All but one: the LTV. This metric remains work in progress. As laid out, we have no immediate concern due to our robust cash flow generation. Potential disposals will certainly help to improve the LTV, and we are working hard on those. We remain, however, committed to our disciplined approach.

It might not be the smartest idea to push disposals at current market level, i.e., so close to the trough. With these remarks, let me conclude with our 2024 guidance on the next slide. Overall, our 2024 guidance remains unchanged. We confirm all our targets and aim for further improvement of the AFFO to EUR 180 million-EUR 200 million. At midpoint, this suggests a 5% increase of the 2023 result. Key drivers: rent growth, as well as a further reduction in investments as we continue to deploy the capital more efficiently. And with this, I hand it over to Frank. The complete management team and I are happy to answer your questions now.

Frank Kopfinger
Head of Investor Relations, LEG Immobilien SE

Thank you, Lars. And with this, we begin the Q&A session, and I hand it over to you, Francine, to guide us through the Q&As.

Operator

Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, at this time, we will begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Anyone who has a question may press star and one at this time. And our first question today comes from Thomas Neuhaus. Mr. Neuhaus, please go ahead with your question.

Speaker 14

Thanks for the presentation and taking my questions. I have two, which are to a certain extent interlinked, so I will ask them at once. The first question is on your mid-term 45% LTV target. In 2023, you had an LTV of 48. You pay out a dividend now, and there's a risk that there will be more revaluation losses in 2024.

So I think there's a risk that your LTV might be rather at 50% than at 45% at the end of this year if you don't manage to do enough disposals. So I'm wondering if you could give us an update on the visibility for your disposal pipeline and your view on dividend sustainability if revaluations drop more than expected or if you manage to sell less apartments than expected. And I was wondering this 45% LTV target in the mid-term, what is your definition of mid-term in years? And the second question is regarding the revaluation outlook. Is there any view on the potential revaluation result in 2024 you can and want to share with us? Thank you.

Lars von Lackum
CEO, LEG Immobilien SE

Good morning, Thomas, and thanks a lot for your questions. So perhaps to start with the disposals and the visibility we currently have.

So while the first two months, as usual, are not the strongest in our market, I'm very much looking forward to MIPIM. As you know, we have MIPIM now this week. We are already in exclusivity with regards to some portfolios, even now reaching the number of 1,000 units. That's still not signed, but we are in negotiations. All of that on the lower quality assets shows of really more incoming calls, more incoming interest with regards to disposals. At the same time, not only at the lower end of the quality spectrum, but also at the upper end of the quality spectrum, we get incoming calls now from all equity buyers like pension funds as well as family offices, meaning with regards to the new developments which we have already finalized or which we are currently about to finalize until mid of 2025.

Both, from our perspective, is a very healthy sign for the current interest in that residential product. I think we have extensively elaborated on the supply-demand imbalance which we are seeing in the market and that our expectation is that this supply-demand imbalance will also widen over the coming years. Therefore, from our perspective, disposals will pick up this year. And from our perspective also, and that falls now into your second question with regards to revaluation, it will bring about more demand, more transactions, and less revaluation of our assets, meaning devaluation, in 2024. From our perspective, 2023 was the famous annus horribilis for the residential industry, but we are seeing now the values being bottoming out. With regards to the third part of your question, what does mid-term exactly mean? So mid-term does not mean within the next 12 months. Yeah?

So also to be once again very clear on that one, it is not that we expect the mid-term target on the LTV level of 45% to be reached until the end of 2024, but with enough tailwind, from our perspective, we can reach that mid-term. And once again, we are committed as a management team to reach that 45 LTV target mid-term.

Speaker 14

Thank you. Thank you, Lars.

Lars von Lackum
CEO, LEG Immobilien SE

Thank you.

Operator

The next question comes from Thomas Rothäusler from Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead.

Thomas Rothäusler
Analyst, Deutsche Bank

Hi, morning, everybody. A few questions. The first one is on rental growth. I mean, if I look at your guidance, it still looks rather muted given the underlying trends, I would say. And you also refer to stronger rent tables. Is there any chance for you to up your guidance or maybe put it in other words?

I mean, maybe you can provide some color on underlying rental growth and the reason for your cautious guidance. That's the first one.

Volker Wiegel
COO, LEG Immobilien SE

Thanks, Thomas. I am happy to take the question on the rental growth. Well, as you know, we are just a little more than 2 months away in the year. We see there are very good dynamics in the rent table developments. Also, you should bear in mind that we have about 20% of the subsidized units. So if you look at the rent growth from pre-financed units, this picks up from 3.6% in last year to about 4% this year. So this then translates into lower rent growth overall due to the subsidized units of about 20%. And this is a more than 10% uptake in rent growth in the pre-financed units.

So we clearly see their dynamic and are very convinced that we will deliver on these results. But if rent tables come out stronger than expected, then we may also update the guidance, but we are just about two months away.

Thomas Rothäusler
Analyst, Deutsche Bank

Okay. The second question is on transaction markets. I mean, you refer to disposals as a source for capital or reinvestments. On that background, just wondering if you already see attractive acquisition opportunities, distressed situations, etc.

Lars von Lackum
CEO, LEG Immobilien SE

Yeah. Thanks a lot, Thomas, for the question. Yeah. Currently, we are not seeing any forced selling within the markets. But due to the situation that certainly values were falling, that project developers are dependent on doing sales, and that's not happening to the extent they're expecting it, I do not also want to exclude that over the coming months, that we are going to see attractive growth opportunities.

At least, as always, you can also rely that we are not only being focused on selling assets on the weaker end or the newly developed assets, but that we are also exploring growth options. So if there might be something coming up, we will definitely try to also get hold of those.

Thomas Rothäusler
Analyst, Deutsche Bank

And the third, the last question is actually on property values. You say or you refer to potential bottoming out. What would you say is likely that we could see already flat values this year?

Lars von Lackum
CEO, LEG Immobilien SE

So from our perspective, and hopefully that the reinstatement of the dividend proves that, we have a positive view on 2024 versus 2023. That does not mean that values might not fall again, but definitely not to the extent they have fallen in 2023.

And that is already something which you can conclude from the 2.5 years of devaluation which we've shown, 7.4%, 4.9%, all of that pointing to an easing of that devaluation. So really, the annus horribilis was 2023, and 2024, from our perspective, holds a lot of opportunities also with regards to doing transactions in the markets, especially delivering on our sales targets.

Thomas Rothäusler
Analyst, Deutsche Bank

Thank you.

Lars von Lackum
CEO, LEG Immobilien SE

Thank you, Thomas.

Operator

The next question comes from Rob Jones from BNP Paribas. Please go ahead with your question.

Rob Jones
Analyst, BNP Paribas

Yeah. Thank you very much. Good morning. I've got three, if I may. So one, Lars, you mentioned scrip dividend benefits all shareholders, and I think you're guiding to a scrip alternative to continue to be offered to shareholders going forward. In a scenario, imagine where it's just you and me that are shareholders of LEG.

If you take a scrip and I don't, I get the benefit of the fact that cash on the balance sheet is greater because you've not taken a cash divvy, but I lose out in future years because the share count goes up and therefore my earnings per share decreases. So I wasn't quite 100% sure how the scrip dividend benefits all shareholders and why it makes sense to continue to offer a scrip alternative going forwards. That was the first question.

Lars von Lackum
CEO, LEG Immobilien SE

And good morning, Rob, also to you. And certainly, that's a brilliant question, as always, Rob. And you know that we can discuss that back and forth for ages. So once again, our perspective on that point is that, as usual, we are offering the scrip dividend to all existing shareholders.

So it is into their decision whether they want to take that scrip or whether they want to opt for the cash. If they go for the cash, they are certainly not benefiting from the positive development of LEG share price going forward. But that is something which lies in the hands of each and every shareholder. So therefore, from our perspective, it is a very fair offering. And certainly, we hope that a lot of investors are going for the scrip dividend. In the past, normally, we've seen a pickup of around 30%, but our expectation, certainly, especially at that low share price, might be that we are going to see even a higher pickup rate of above that 30%.

Rob Jones
Analyst, BNP Paribas

Okay. Very clear. The second one was on slide 15, the AFFO bridge for 2023.

Forward sale of green electricity, Kathrin, you mentioned was just under EUR 21 million for the year. Do you have any visibility in terms of what that could be for 2024? I'm assuming less given it's a major component of your AFFO for the year.

Lars von Lackum
CEO, LEG Immobilien SE

So Rob, yeah. So as you can see, that was really a one-off. So taking the decision back in October 2022 was to pre-sale all of the green electricity production for 2023 in the market. That was really at those ultra-high electricity prices. And therefore, unfortunately, it will be close to zero for this year because this year, we have not taken the option to pre-sell, but we are bound to the current market and the market price development. And the market price, certainly, is much lower compared to the price we have been able to generate with that forward sale in October 2022.

So we are talking EUR 475 in comparison to the current EUR 85. So that's the spread. And therefore, unfortunately, it is really a zero impact, one-off, from that sale of green electricity.

Rob Jones
Analyst, BNP Paribas

Okay. Great. And then third and final, I have got four, but in the interest of time, I'll ask the fourth one to Frank later. Just back on the LTV again. So obviously, previously, in the past, it's targeted 43%. That had increased to 45% now given the alignment with how your rating agencies think about LTV. You mentioned, obviously, that the 48% where we are today is comfortably within the thresholds of a Baa2 Moody's rating. So slightly playing devil's advocate at a point in time where we're expecting asset value to trough in 2024.

Therefore, as you mentioned, Lars, maybe it isn't necessarily right to be aggressively looking to sell assets to potentially the bottom of the market. Why not increase your LTV target from 45 to 48 given it's within the thresholds of Baa2?

Kathrin Köhling
CFO, LEG Immobilien SE

Yeah. Thanks, Rob. As you know, we came up with the 45% because ultimately, we strive to get back to a Baa1 rating. And this is still our target, though it may be mid-term and not short-term as Lars pointed out. But for the time being, we feel super stable with our current Baa2 rating. And as you know, Moody's also said that they expect a further devaluation. So if there were a further devaluation to take place this year of another round 3%, this would still be included in our rating, and we would still be very comfortable in.

Rob Jones
Analyst, BNP Paribas

Great. Well, thank you very much, and good luck for your upcoming roadshow special results as well. Thanks.

Lars von Lackum
CEO, LEG Immobilien SE

Thank you, Rob.

Kathrin Köhling
CFO, LEG Immobilien SE

Thanks, Rob.

Mark Mozzi
Analyst, Bank of America

Our next question is from Pierre Clouard from Jefferies. Please go ahead. Mr. Clouard, your line is open. Maybe you're on mute. We will then continue with the next question, which is from Marc Sheridan for Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Thank you. Very good morning, all. I have only two questions from my side. The first one is in regards to your next-to-come convertible bond, September 2025. EUR 400 million, which is out of the money, if I understand it correctly. What are the options you right now have to consider and to take on board to address this clearing event?

Kathrin Köhling
CFO, LEG Immobilien SE

Yeah. Sure. Happy to take your first question, Mark, and on the convertible bond.

So as you know, it's not due until September next year, so we do still have quite some time. How do we address it? So we could either use another convertible bond, or we could go for secured or unsecured financing. So all these options are open to us, and we will look opportunistically over the year, whatever makes most sense, maybe next year, so that we will clear this convertible bond. But as you know, it has a super low coupon. So for the time being, as long as we keep it, it's also in the best interest of our shareholders because it has very low interest rates to pay.

Mark Mozzi
Analyst, Bank of America

And that goes well with my second question, which is about what sort of marginal cost of capital are you facing right now, which is on an unsecured market bond and credit market and then the unsecured market? What sort of pricing should we assess here?

Kathrin Köhling
CFO, LEG Immobilien SE

So on the you were asking for the pricing on the secured and unsecured market, right? The line was a little bit.

Mark Mozzi
Analyst, Bank of America

Absolutely.

Kathrin Köhling
CFO, LEG Immobilien SE

Okay.

Mark Mozzi
Analyst, Bank of America

Sure. Absolutely.

Kathrin Köhling
CFO, LEG Immobilien SE

So on the secured side, we still see a 120 basis point spread. So it's pretty much the same I've been telling you all year round. And we are still looking at 120 basis points. We just signed something for around 120 basis points. So that's still what we are looking on the secured side. The unsecured side is still a little bit more expensive. So on a 10-year basis, we are currently looking at around a spread of 180 basis points. But this is obviously much lower than what I told you last year. So spreads are coming in. Spreads are getting tighter. This rounds for a coupon of around 4.3%-4.4% currently.

Mark Mozzi
Analyst, Bank of America

Thank you very much. Really appreciate it.

Kathrin Köhling
CFO, LEG Immobilien SE

Thank you, Mark.

Operator

Our next question is from Neeraj Kumar from Barclays. Please go ahead.

Neeraj Kumar
Analyst, Barclays

Morning, everyone. I have a couple of questions. The first one is, given your paying dividend for this year, is it fair to say that you see no need or sort of any intention of equity raise, at least for this year?

Lars von Lackum
CEO, LEG Immobilien SE

Good morning, Neeraj. I would have been surprised to not get that question from you this time. As always, I think it makes sense to constantly evaluate all options. Certainly, currently, we are not having an intention to do a capital raise. We are in constant dialogue, certainly, with all our shareholders, and certainly, we'll consider their feedback. We are very proud that we have those excellent operations producing cash.

We are proud that we've been able to take advantage of the transaction market, selling 2,000 units, all of that contributing positively. So now expecting bottoming out of the market. So let's wait whether we are going to see any growth opportunities which might bring us back to the market. But for the time being, we are not evaluating a capital increase.

Neeraj Kumar
Analyst, Barclays

Got it. Thank you. And the second question is, can you please comment on the BCP if you have any developments on that side to share?

Lars von Lackum
CEO, LEG Immobilien SE

I would love to do so, Neeraj. Unfortunately, the process has fallen silent. So we are not aware that any sales activities are going on. So unfortunately, nothing new to add to that point of BCP.

Neeraj Kumar
Analyst, Barclays

Got it. Thank you very much.

Lars von Lackum
CEO, LEG Immobilien SE

Thank you.

Operator

Our next question is from Manuel Martin from ODDO BHF . Please go ahead.

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

Manuel Martin
Analyst, Oddo BHF

One question from my side. It's concerning your CapEx spending. A bit maybe two aspects here. One aspect is the decarbonization path. With your current CapEx spending and your budgets, do you feel that you are right on track on the decarbonization path, or are you temporarily underspending? That would be one aspect. And the other aspect would be looking forward from today, what could be your feeling in terms of spending? Would you tend to increase your EUR 30 per square meter, or would you keep that stable? That's it.

Volker Wiegel
COO, LEG Immobilien SE

Hey, Manuel. Thanks for your questions. I think, well, we feel very comfortable with our spending to be on track on our CO2 reduction path. As we pointed out in the presentation, we shift a bit the spending from traditional modernization to smarter measures. And we have there new innovations in the pipeline.

So I may only point out to the thermostats we are currently developing. It's really cutting-edge technology. And if we bring it to the market, it will save us 25%-30% of CO2 per unit with very low investment. So we feel comfortable with our spendings in terms of CO2 reduction path. And with regard to the second question, we feel comfortable with the current amount we spend. And we will look at how we develop this in the future. But this, we will do on a year-on-year basis. And for the time being, we are comfortable.

Manuel Martin
Analyst, Oddo BHF

Okay. Thank you.

Lars von Lackum
CEO, LEG Immobilien SE

Thanks, Manuel.

Operator

The next question comes from Paul May from Barclays. Please go ahead.

Paul May
Analyst, Barclays

Thanks very much. Got a couple of questions. Appreciate there's been a lot of focus on LTV, but I think your biggest concern is probably your ICR eventually. Is that fair to say?

Because I think the marginal cost of debt that you mentioned, if you had that cost of debt today, you would be in breach of your ICR. So I'm just wondering how you would be managing that moving forward. Should I take them one at a time, or ask them all now?

Lars von Lackum
CEO, LEG Immobilien SE

Yeah. This would be highly appreciated, as always. So good morning, Paul. And yeah, certainly, you are right. If we would need to refinance everything at day one, then certainly, ICR would become a problem. But as you know, we have an average maturity of 6.2 years. So therefore, the current average cost of capital currently is at 1.58%. And that is not going to increase until mid of 2025 or not substantially because there is not much to be refinanced.

So therefore, from our perspective, we will just, as always, take care of that by increasing rents accordingly and reducing vacancy. So it's all on the shoulders of Volker. But I'm absolutely sure that while we have done so much progress with the operational platform over the course of last years, we will also do so going forward.

Paul May
Analyst, Barclays

Okay. Second one on the transaction market. I think you mentioned that all of your disposals are in the higher-yielding segment. We've heard from others that that's kind of where there's some transactional activity. Otherwise, there's not much else available, suddenly nothing at lower yields. Is that still the case, that we're looking at sort of a 6%+ gross yield as where the transaction market is? And in which case, how are you confident that your lower-yielding assets are correctly valued if the only transaction market is above 6%?

Lars von Lackum
CEO, LEG Immobilien SE

Yeah. With regard to transaction markets, and you can easily conclude from the EUR 155 million which we've been able to transact at with 2,000 units, that's really at the lower end of our quality spectrum and therefore at a gross yield at around what you were mentioning. That is what is working in the market. Hopefully, we will always make clear that while in the current market environment, people are striving for higher yields, certainly then taking benefit, that they can take out leverage with the current cost of debt.

However, and that was the second part we tried to describe now during the presentation, what we are seeing is that also there is more interest and renewed interest of pension funds and all equity buyers at really the upper end of the quality spectrum, meaning that we are seeing people willing to also transact at much lower gross yields, 3%-4%, with regards to also new products. So all of that is now new in the market, but we are confident to also see transactions also with regards to our own newly contracted portfolio over the course of this year.

Paul May
Analyst, Barclays

Okay. So just to get it right, the lower yielding is more at the newer assets. Is that right, sorry, from what you're saying?

Lars von Lackum
CEO, LEG Immobilien SE

Exactly. Exactly. So especially with those which are going for that KfW 55 standard, which then very often is something which those pension funds are looking for.

Paul May
Analyst, Barclays

Cool. And then just the final one, just following on from Neeraj's second question around equity raise, but just to ask it a slightly different way. I think you mentioned throughout the confident that the transaction market is starting to open up, tending to be, say, at higher yields apart from those new assets that are there. You're focused on deleveraging the business. Why not use equity to grow and invest? If you think that we're kind of at the bottom of the market, there'll probably be some quite attractive opportunities to invest and buy assets, considering it sounds like everyone else is looking to sell as well.

I just wonder what your thoughts are on there in terms of changing the narrative and changing the thought process rather than focused on disposals, disposals, and shrinking.

Lars von Lackum
CEO, LEG Immobilien SE

Thanks. Yeah. So, Paul, and also this, we tried at least to give you a hint at during the presentation. This is exactly what we are doing. So we are looking for interesting growth opportunities. And if we are seeing something which would help us to grow the AFFO per share, then certainly, we would bring that to the attention of our shareholders if we would need additional capital. But certainly, and first of all, we would recycle the capital which we are generating from the sales of assets and which we are then not using to deleverage but to then reinvest into the one or the other growth opportunity.

Paul May
Analyst, Barclays

Thank you very much.

Lars von Lackum
CEO, LEG Immobilien SE

Thank you, Paul.

Operator

The next question is from Simon Stippich from Warburg Research. Please go ahead.

Simon Stippich
Analyst, Warburg Research

Hi. Good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. First one will be in regard to the services business. You mentioned that you see growth in 2025 and beyond and flat for this year, around EUR 27 million. Could you please indicate what the driver is then starting in 2025? And I will ask my second question after you answer it. Thank you.

Volker Wiegel
COO, LEG Immobilien SE

Sure, Simon. Drivers for 2025 are more stable energy markets we expect so that we can make their additional margin as we did in the past, which is a bit distorted due to the volatility. And second will be then that we expect first results from our thermostat business.

Simon Stippich
Analyst, Warburg Research

Great. For example, the Nebenkostenprivileg , the runoff of it, that would not impact you negatively or positively in this year or positively maybe in the next year?

Volker Wiegel
COO, LEG Immobilien SE

Well, there will be no positive effect from this but only a slight negative effect. So we see this not as a major negative effect.

Simon Stippich
Analyst, Warburg Research

Great. Thank you. Second one would be in regard to rent growth, more specifically the rent table in Wilhelmshaven. Would be great if you could tell me your expectations in that regard or if you don't have any expectations specifically to the rent table, what your broader market expectation is in Wilhelmshaven.

Volker Wiegel
COO, LEG Immobilien SE

Well, it's the first rent table that will be published in Wilhelmshaven. And we are a major landlord in Wilhelmshaven. We are participating in all expert rounds initiated by the municipality.

So we have the expectation that the rent table will reflect a fair view on the rent situation in Wilhelmshaven. But as it's not yet published, we don't know yet.

Simon Stippich
Analyst, Warburg Research

Okay. Or differently ask, could you remind me of your vacancy rate in that market?

Volker Wiegel
COO, LEG Immobilien SE

I think it's about the highest vacancy rate we have in a single market. It's at the upper end of a single-digit number.

Simon Stippich
Analyst, Warburg Research

Okay. Thank you. And then maybe also a follow-up in that regard. Is your expectations about this market when you bought Adler or when you bought that part from Adler Real Estate, is that met or outperformed or actually underperformed?

Volker Wiegel
COO, LEG Immobilien SE

No, it's met. We are on track to fulfill our business plan there.

Simon Stippich
Analyst, Warburg Research

Okay. Great. Thank you. And then one last one. In regard to the scrip dividend, as we know, your own shares, will you choose the scrip dividend or cash?

Kathrin Köhling
CFO, LEG Immobilien SE

I can only talk for myself. But when I look here in the round, I think people all go for the scrip dividend because we strongly believe in what we are doing here.

Simon Stippich
Analyst, Warburg Research

Great. And if I may, one follow-up in regard to what Paul just asked in regard to the equity raise and you answered. Do I understand it correctly that if you see great opportunities and you need capital for an accretive acquisition on AFFO basis, then you would actually approach the market with the capital you have until 2025?

Lars von Lackum
CEO, LEG Immobilien SE

First of all, I think we need to identify the growth opportunity. Second, we will recycle capital which we have generated from sales of assets in the market. And if we are then really needing additional capital, then certainly, one of the options might be getting back to the market. And that's very important, Simon.

Write that down, please. We have no intention of doing a capital raise at the current moment.

Simon Stippich
Analyst, Warburg Research

Okay. Great. Thanks for the clarification.

Lars von Lackum
CEO, LEG Immobilien SE

Thanks a lot, Simon.

Operator

Our next question is from Bart Gysens from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

Bart Gysens
Analyst, Morgan Stanley

Yeah. Hi. Good morning. Following up on that capital raise point, you're very clear on that. But of course, you're offering a scrip alternative to the dividend. And the takeup ratio of that scrip dividend can be influenced quite dramatically by where you strike the price of the scrip. I appreciate you haven't provided that color yet, that targeted takeup of the scrip and kind of what likely discount to the share price that you will offer for the scrip alternative. Thank you.

Kathrin Köhling
CFO, LEG Immobilien SE

Yeah. So happy to do so. So all technical information will be most likely published with our invitation to our AGM. So this will be in April.

So there, you will get all the information you need. In the past, we usually had a pickup rate of around 30%. This is something that we also expect this year around. In the past, we usually offered a discount of 3%. This is something you can take into consideration for your information. Everything around what price it will be, most likely, we will have June 6th as the date where we will derive the VWAP of the day. And then we will have the scrip price. But this will all come in a final version when the technical information will be published together with the invitation for our AGM in April.

Bart Gysens
Analyst, Morgan Stanley

Is it fair to say that you will get an indication of what your first-half revaluation will be of the portfolio and that therefore, this is by no means a commitment to 3% discount to the share price and that you could set it at a different price if you so wanted to?

Kathrin Köhling
CFO, LEG Immobilien SE

We will for sure say what will be the discount with the invitation to the AGM. Then we offer the technical information. Then you can be assured that it will be 3% or it will be different. With regards to the valuation of our portfolio, as you know, we usually come up with our first ideas in May. When we come back to this round, I think it's in the middle of May. It's May 15th.

Then we will most likely have a first idea also on potential further devaluation or not a devaluation for our portfolio for the first half.

Bart Gysens
Analyst, Morgan Stanley

Thank you.

Lars von Lackum
CEO, LEG Immobilien SE

Thank you, Bart.

Operator

There are no further questions at this time. I hand back to Frank for closing comments.

Frank Kopfinger
Head of Investor Relations, LEG Immobilien SE

Yeah. Thanks, Francie. Thanks for all your questions. As always, should you have any further open questions like Rob, then please do not hesitate and contact us. Otherwise, please note that our next scheduled reporting event is on May 15th. We report our Q1 results. With this, we close the call. We wish you all the best and hope to see you soon on one of our upcoming roadshows and conferences. Thank you. Goodbye, everybody.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, the conference is now concluded. You may disconnect your telephone. Thank you very much for joining. Have a pleasant day. Goodbye.

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