...Welcome to the conference call on MTU Aero Engines nine months results 2024. For your information, the management presentation, including the Q&A session, will be audio taped and streamed live or made available on demand on the Internet. By attending in the conference call, you grant permission for audio recordings intended for publication on the Internet to be taken. The speakers of today's conference call are Mr. Lars Wagner, Chief Executive Officer, and Mr. Peter Kameritsch, Chief Financial Officer. First, I will hand over to Mr. Thomas Franz, Vice President, Investor Relations, for some introductory words.
Yeah, thank you, Sonia. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to our conference call for MTU's Q3 2024 results. As usual, we start with a review and some key messages presented by Lars. Peter will start with a look on overall financials and more details on our OEM and MRO segment. Lars will continue with the latest update on the 2024 guidance. This will end the presentation part, and we will open the call for questions. Let me now hand over to Lars for the review.
All right, thank you, Thomas, and also very warm welcome from my side. Let me start, as usual, with a view on the market environment. Worldwide passenger traffic in August grew 8.6% year on year. Within that, domestic travel traffic rose 5.6%, while international traffic increased 10%. The Asia Pacific and Latin America regions experienced double digit growth, while other regions grew between 4% and 10%. As in previous months, strong ticket sales and consistently high load factors reflect sustained high demand for air travel. Cargo flights remained at elevated levels as it continues to benefit from rising e-commerce demand, particularly from consumers in the U.S. and Europe, as well as ongoing capacity limitations in maritime transport. This strong growth reflects the favorable demand environment for air traffic.
The demand meets a constrained level of new aircraft deliveries still suffering from supply chain challenges. As a result, older aircraft are kept in service longer than previously expected, resulting in lower retirement rates and a very solid demand for aftermarket services for these platforms. Limited MRO capacity and parts availability provides a solid base for price increases for future MRO services, spare parts, as well as aircraft and engine leases. So what are the effects on MTU? Lower delivery numbers of new aircraft are resulting in a reduction of new engine shipments to airframers. This allow an increased delivery share of spare and lease engines to customers. We have seen this already in the first half of the year, and this trend continued in Q3, resulting in an ongoing favorable mix effect on our EBIT line.
MRO demand remains robust for mature engine platforms like the V2500, GEnx, GE90 and CF34. Additionally, MTU's lease and asset business benefits from high lease rates, boosting MRO EBIT. The spare parts business performed strongly in Q3, particularly for narrow body and mature wide-body platforms, reinforcing confidence in meeting our full-year targets. Regarding the GTF fleet management plan, we are continuing the execution of the program in alignment with our program partners and are progressing in line with expectations. The output in new parts production as well as MRO output is improving. RTX further reported on the progress in customer settlements. Now, 28 agreements covering 75% of the fleet are signed. Key factors to watch remain improvements in turnaround times, growth in MRO capacity, and the availability of exchange parts.
Pratt & Whitney is continuing to ramp up the production of these parts, and we anticipate additional improvements through the coming quarters. And finally, last week, as you've seen, we published an ad hoc statement with our strong Q3 key figures, and we're able to raise our earnings forecast for 2024. Our EBIT is expected to exceed 1 billion EUR already in 2024, reaching our 2025 target a year ahead of our previously communicated outlook. I will provide further details in a few minutes. Let me now hand over to Peter for the financials.
Yes, thanks, Lars, and a warm welcome also from my side. In the first nine months of 2024 , we achieved adjusted group revenues of EUR 5.3 billion, up 14% from last year. This growth was supported from all business segments. In U.S. dollar terms, revenues were also up 14%. EBIT adjusted increased by 25% to EUR 744 million, driven by a strong contribution from our MRO segment and a favorable business mix effect in the OEM segment. EBIT margin stood at 14%. Net income adjusted was up 23% to EUR 541 million, and free cash flow ended at EUR 213 million. Ongoing supply chain year issues continued to put pressure on working capital also in Q3.
Let's have a look into the business details, and let me start with the OEM segment on the next page. Total OEM revenues increased by 11% to roughly EUR 1.8 billion. Military revenues were up 16% to EUR 426 million. TP400 and EJ200 aftermarket and some development work, work for the next generation fighter engine were the growth drivers in that segment. Commercial business revenues in euros rose 9% to almost EUR 1.4 billion. Organic OE revenues in dollars were up in the low-20% range, mainly driven by higher GTF and IGT deliveries. As in previous quarters, we saw a healthy volume of spare and lease engines supporting profitability. Organic spare parts sales in US dollars were up high single digit.
Main growth drivers were the V2500, wide body platforms as the PW2000 and the GEnx, as well as business jet engines. EBIT adjusted in absolute numbers increased 19% to EUR 444 million, resulting in a margin increase to almost 25%. The EBIT benefited from the strong growth in military revenues, a more favorable business mix in the new engine sales, and an increased volume of spare parts sales. Now, let's turn the page and move on to the commercial MRO segment. Reported MRO revenues increased by 15% to roughly EUR 3.6 billion. USD revenues were up in line, also with 15%. Main revenue drivers here were the GE90, the V2500, GEnx, and CF34, and our Engine Lease business. The GTF share was at 31%, which remains slightly below our full year expectation of 35%.
EBIT adjusted increased 35% to 300 million EUR, resulting in a margin of 8.4%. The higher margin was the result of a better contract mix in independent business and a lower share and material intensity of GTF MRO. Furthermore, the strong results from our Engine Lease and asset management business continue to be very supportive on EBIT. At this point, I would like to hand back to Lars for some words on the updated guidance 2024.
All right, thanks, Peter. And guys, as announced on October 15th, we updated our guidance for the year 2024. While the organic growth outlook, as well as the free cash flow guidance, are unchanged, we raised our earnings guidance for the financial year 2024. Adjusted EBIT is now guided to slightly over EUR 1 billion. Our previous guidance implied an EBIT adjusted between EUR 950 million and EUR 980 million. This upgrade was based on the strong development we presented in the Q3 results, as well as the outlook for the remainder of the year. At our Capital Market Day in 2022, we issued our ambition for 2025, with EUR 8 billion of revenues and EUR 1 billion of EBIT adjusted for 2025.
These challenging targets were well received by the market, and being able to cross the finish line on EBIT adjusted one year earlier, greatly demonstrates the potential of MTU, our teams, and the market we are in. And to put this into the right light, we achieved our absolute profit goal one year ahead of time. While some of the results are supported by trends that came more pronounced than expected, we are very pleased by this development. And to sum it up, MTU has taken advantage of all the opportunities the market offered and will continue to do so in the future. With the current tailwinds, we are heading into the future and will continue to benefit from the significant growth, significant growth opportunities in our industry. Thank you very much so far for your attention, and we are ready to answer questions.
Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. If you'd like to ask a question, please press star one one on your touchtone telephone. The operator will announce your name when it's your turn to ask a question. In case you wish to cancel your question, please press star one one again. We will now take our first question. Mr. Robert Stallard from Vertical Research, may we have your question?
Thanks so much. Good morning.
Morning.
Hey, Robert.
I have two for you. First of all, on the timing of a GTF fleet management plan compensation, do you see these payments moving to the right, but the overall total remaining about the same? And then secondly, on the spare engine mix, very strong year to date, but when do you expect that mix to revert to something more normal? Thank you.
Yeah, I mean, Peter here, Rob. So, I mean, regarding the payment schedule of the Fleet Management Plan, I mean, you heard probably the RTX call, so they expect $1 billion of payment for the full year, and we see it in a similar way. I think it moves a little bit to the right. If you look only into 2024, and 2025 and 2026, that has to be seen how the exact allocation to the two years will be. But Neil Mitchill said, I mean, 2025, 2026, the payments will probably be done for the full provisioned amount. Yeah.
The mix on the spare engine, we would see what you see, the mix in the market, how fast, obviously, Airbus is able to ramp up its production. We are also laser focused on supporting their delivery stream, and whenever there's a potential opportunity, we go into the sales and leasing market.
That's great. Thank you very much.
Thank you. We will now take our next question. Mr. Ian Douglas-Pennant from UBS, please go ahead. We may have your question.
Thank you, very much. Firstly, on the spare parts sales, could you comment to what extent has improvements in the supply chain allowed for this result that we've seen here? You know, versus your expectations at the beginning of the year and the challenges that we saw, has that eased up maybe quicker than you thought? And secondly, on the MRO side, can I just confirm that your contract terms have not changed in any way that allows this increase in profitability on the core, you know, maintenance work? Thank you.
I wouldn't attribute it to different conditions. So, as we said in our presentation, I think the strong leasing business, strong asset and leasing management business in our Netherlands facility, that was, I would say, the main driver. And the contract mix and engine mix, that is also a small tailwind. But the major tailwind came from that part of our business. And equity contribution from Zhuhai was more or less flat year-on-year. So we reduced the losses from EME in the quarter slightly. So that is the effect we see on the at-equity contribution. These are the two elements I would say, yeah.
Regarding supply chain, I mean, I'm okay with the status of the supply chain. Am I happy? Not yet, but some of the parts have improved and recovered way earlier than we expected, and some of them will do so in the remainder of the year or even next year. The powder metal itself is ramping up very quickly. Is it enough? Not yet, but I see a good trend here as well. In general, supply chain is improving to the better side.
Thank you. We will now go to our next question. Ms. Chloe Lemarie from Jefferies, may we have your question?
Thank you for taking my question. I have two, if I may. The, the first one would be actually on the leasing business in MRO. Could you maybe share a little bit more color on this? So how much it represents, in the total now, and maybe help us understand the scale of the year-on-year contribution to EBIT, from the, from the leasing business? The second one was actually on the, on the free cash flow guide. So at this point, you're obviously not refining the, the guide. So I was wondering whether you still have some high level of uncertainty on the compensation payment, amounts for the, for Q4, or if it's got to do more with inventory and, and other line items. Thank you.
I mean, the latter. I mean, we have two big moving parts, obviously. So the situation in the working capital, so depending a little bit on parts supply across all programs in the MRO, not only GTF, obviously, also all other engine programs suffer from not extremely stable supply chain. That's the one element of volatility, and the other is the exact timing of payments to airline. So that is why we don't refine the guidance. It's still, the outcome can still be in a broad range. So that is special to that year, I would say.
Leasing business, I mean, for the full year, we expect something in the magnitude of EUR 500 million for that unit. So for the nine months, it was in the magnitude of 350 or so. And that is, we don't strip locations sort of out EBIT wise, and so. But it is significantly above average margins dip compared to the average MRO margin.
Very clear. Thank you.
So, I mean, what we do there is we buy basically used engines, lease these engines out to airline customers, so our MRO customers. And at the end of the lifetime, we typically tear it down, extract the used material, use the used material in our own shop, or sell the used material to other shops, or we do also to engine trades, so buying the engine, selling the engine directly. So there are all kinds of, let's say, asset management operations, which you find there in that under the roof in Amsterdam. And it's a very good business, and we see that as a continuing very good business. So we're actually focusing how to grow this business in the future.
You can see now this year, it's a significant benefit and impact on our EBIT line.
Perfect. Thank you.
Thank you. We will now take our next question. Mr. George Zhao from Bernstein, may we have your question?
Hi, good morning, everyone. I wanted to ask for some clarification on the OEM numbers. You know, year-to-date, organic growth for the commercial OEM was plus 9%. In H1, that was plus 16%. Do you have the Q3 organic number? In either case, it seems like there was a huge gap between the Q3 organic and the 18% reported growth for commercial OEM. So what is driving that gap?
George, this is Thomas speaking. I think we have a slightly different baseline there from the growth numbers. I think that's something that we can clear up between the IRs.
... from our side with you, if you want.
Okay, but what, what's the Q3 organic growth for the OEM business?
So at the end, the organic growth year to date is what Peter has illustrated, so low 20% range for the OE revenues and high single-digit % for the spare part. And how that comes up to the overall number, that's a detail we should clarify between ourselves.
A lot of different small elements in the revenues play a role there. So it's a very not very detailed question, actually. Yeah.
Okay, we can follow up on that later.
Yeah, yeah.
Separately, I know on the increased EBIT guide, could you talk about kind of how you think about margins targets the division? I mean, clearly MRO, you know, last quarter you said 8% for H2, you're above that. You know, how do you see that sustaining the currently elevated levels, for Q4 and potentially into next year?
In Q4, it will be more or less in the same ballpark. A little bit below, I would say a little bit, maybe a little bit below, below 14% . I mean, if you do the math, I mean, we're gonna have a Q4 in the magnitude of EUR 2.1 billion of revenue. So we're gonna see a pickup in even more MRO volumes. We are gonna see also spare parts growth. We're gonna see a strong military quarter, so a very strong revenue quarter, EUR 2.1 billion.
If you take the midpoint of our guidance, 7.4 versus the 5.3 after nine months, and if you do the math, I mean, we expect something like 180-190 of EBIT, so we are a little bit above the EUR 1.1 billion, and that translates into a margin of, let's say, high 13%, 13.8-13.9. But we have to see how, let's say, the spot rate at the 31st of December plays out and so on. That all plays a role, how revenues come in, yeah. So that's the picture more or less for the fourth quarter.
Then, I mean, going forward, I mean, for 2025, I think you should wait for the Capital Markets Day. Then we're gonna speak about 2025 revenue drivers, so how the delivery skyline will be roughly from our point of view and so on. So there's nothing I think we should talk about on the nine-month call.
Sure. For Q4, I was thinking more about by segment, you know, that the Q3 strong MRO margins could that be sustainable into Q4?
In that magnitude of 9%, I would say, yeah. Is it then 8.8 or 9.2? Let's see.
All right.
It all depends, let's say, which shop visits you build. Is there high material intensity or lower material intensity? So it's not completely clear how the exact revenue number will be, but in the range of 9% is a reasonable estimate, yeah.
Thank you. We will now take our next question. Mr. Carlos Iranzo from Bank of America, may we have your question?
Hey, guys. Good morning, and thanks for taking my questions. I actually have two. The first one, I just wonder if you could comment a little bit. How should we think about the MRO split in GTF versus independent for 2025? And then any color you could share in terms of pricing dynamics on the independent MRO, that would be really appreciated, please.
Revenue split in 2025, that's also something we will give on the Capital Markets Day. It will be in the range of 35%-40%. In that ballpark, we're gonna stay in that ballpark, I would say. Pricing environment in MRO is obviously a good one. We have a very high demand and limited capacity in that environment. Obviously, it's a very good environment for pricing. On the other side, I mean, we have obviously long-term contracts with our customers. In a running contract, you have maybe escalation clauses, but you cannot directly increase prices.
But for new contracts, obviously, and for contract extensions or so, you can renegotiate or can negotiate higher prices, yeah, sure. And you're gonna see that tailwind you're gonna see for some years, for sure, yeah, mm-hmm.
Thank you. We will now take our next question. Please stand by. Mr. Phil Buller from Berenberg, may we have your question?
Hi, good morning. Thanks. Thanks for the questions. I also have two, if I may. I'll go one at a time. Firstly, you've got some pretty favorable dynamics at the moment. You referenced the word elevated in the text, which makes sense, but do you believe that anything has changed or will change structurally in the minds of customers in terms of their planning for average retirement ages being structurally higher as they are temporarily? Or should we not expect that average age and the pricing dynamic to reverse at a similar pace as soon as the line of sight improves for Airbus and Boeing deliveries? I appreciate that might be a way off, but I was wondering if there's anything that you think may be structurally changing on that topic first, please.
A little bit of crystal ball, honestly, Phil. Maybe on the other side of the Atlantic, you see what's going on there right now. On the Airbus side, I know there's continuous focus on their rate increase. I would just say we benefit from that as long as we can, but I have no crystal ball to say how long is this ongoing. Plus, you know, we are ramping up our production line and our MRO facilities, so we continue to serve the market, and this is our task to benefit from every possible, you know, upside that we can see. I have difficulty to say yes on that question. Yeah.
That's understood. Thank you. And then in terms of the competition, I guess, when markets are this attractive, normally other people want a piece of the action. I'm thinking about the likes of Fortress, which feels like it's a growing threat. Maybe that's wrong, but do you have any thoughts on how the competitive environment is evolving, and is there anything you're doing differently to gain share or fend off potential new entrants, please? Thanks.
You know, obviously, in our industry, there are only a handful of players who can do what we need to do, and MTU is very well positioned and is number one independent MRO provider, so we will benefit from that tailwind for sure. We have a look at that at what's happening at Fortress, and we're gonna make up our own minds of how to react to that and eventually giving some light in the capital market day. This is not a strategy call here. We will investigate. We are investigating, but for now, we feel quite comfortable with our number one position on the independent market.
Got it. Thank you.
Thank you. We will now take our next question. Mr. Ross Law from Morgan Stanley, may we have your question?
Yes. Good morning, everyone. Thanks very much for taking my question. So, two from me as well. On the GTF share in MRO, so you've tracked at around 30% for nine months, but you've maintained the 35% expectation for the full year. That would imply a tick up to around 50% in Q4. So is that the right interpretation, and what's driving that very large uptick in Q4? And then secondly, on spare parts sales growth in Q3, could you give us a split between volumes and price, please? And lastly, if I can just squeeze one in, delay of the 777X, what's the impact on your business? Thanks.
Delay 777X, I mean, we monitor the situation. It's compared to our expectation, it's a small delay. I mean, ultimately, it will result in a slightly higher level of working capital as we, let's say, produce parts or modules, and they don't find their way finally to the customer. So the delivery, the time for delivery is higher and the level of our consignment stock is slightly higher. So it ultimately will result in a higher level of working capital and a slower, let's say, a slower and later ramp up of revenues and dilution of margin, yeah, because also that program at the beginning will be slightly negative.
In pricing part, I mean, you know how spare parts prices are increased. It's in a level of, let's say, net, let's say 6% on average, I would say, because that is the average, I would say, increase of spare parts prices, labor rates, maybe 2-3% upwards, and we can take the blend of both. So I would say 4-5% tailwind from pricing. And the rest is volumes. So GTF in Q4 will be above the 31%, definitely, and it's both. So we're gonna ship more engines, and that has to do with, let's say, the continued ramp up we have in our Zhuhai facility and in the EME facility.
So that ramps up throughout the year, and also we're gonna build more engines with, let's say, a higher material content. So that will drive revenues upwards in Q4. Is it exactly 35%? Let's see, could also be 33% or 34%, but it will be higher compared to the nine months, yeah.
Okay. Thank you very much for the color.
Thank you. We will now take our next question. Ms. Milene Kerner from Barclays, may we have your question?
Yes. Hello, Lars, Peter, and Thomas.
Hello.
So I also have two questions. The first one is on your R&D, the expense, so material rise in Q3, what do you expect for the full year? You had EUR 178 million expense last year, and you have already spent EUR 148 million at the nine-month stage. And then my second question regards the GTF. Could you help us with some context on how much powder metal production needs to increase from the current level to satisfy all the demand you have from the airframer, but also in service without the need to balance on the MRO side?
That's, Milene, a tough one to answer. As you know, right now, every new engine is fully equipped with unlimited discs from powder metal. The MRO still needs to increase. That ramp will continue over the next years as we're getting in more engines over the years to come. Powder metal, we said at the beginning, is an issue that travels through 2024 until 2026, most likely a little bit into 2027. The replacement powder metal should be done, and there is a double digit increase necessary. Mid-double digit, probably, year- over- year until this year. It falls back into the pure OE lines.
It is an uptick that we need for three more years, and then it goes to normal level that is in line with our delivery rates. There's no powder metal issue afterwards.
Very helpful. Thank you, Lars.
Regarding R&D, I mean, after nine months, we had $172 million company expensed R&D, and we expect something like 50-60 million for the fourth quarter. So in total, let's say $220 or something in that ballpark. Depends a little bit on the timing also of the payments we do here in that respect.
Thank you, Peter.
Thank you. We will now go to our next question. Mr. David Perry from J.P. Morgan, may we have your question?
Yes, hi, Lars and Peter. Congrats on the numbers.
Hey.
Two questions, a little bit technical, maybe for Peter. One, just a clarification on the comment Raytheon made a couple of days ago when they talked about the $1 billion of compensation. Is that just their share, or is that the total compensation for all the consortium? So if it's a $1 billion, you would have 18% of that. Just wanted to clarify that.
Right. I mean, that is our understanding, that the EUR 1 billion is the 100% share. And they obviously have 51% program share, and we 18%, so, and the EUR 1 billion is the 100% share. And initially, I think they gave a guidance of EUR 1.5 billion, and that is the indication that it moves a little bit to the right, if you only look on 2024.
Okay. That's, that's helpful. Thanks. And the next one, sort of conceptual, I guess. But if you look at what your comments a few minutes ago on MRO margins could be 9% in the quarter, gets you to about 8.5% for the full year. You're sort of getting back to levels you were at pre-COVID, and I know it was better in 2018. But you were around the kind of 8.5%-9.5%. So you're back at those levels, but you're carrying, you know, $1.8 billion of GTF sales at basically close to 0% margin, I think. So I'm just trying to understand, what is it, what is it that's made the underlying sort of traditional MRO work much more profitable, if the question makes sense?
Is there something temporary, or is this the kind of new normal for core MRO? Thank you.
A tricky question. I mean, we're gonna talk about that on our capital markets. So, I mean, why the margins are so strong currently, I mean, we have that market situation, so much more, let's say, demand compared to supply. So you have a favorable, let's say, pricing environment in the current year, I would say the current twelve months, the last twelve months. We have a very strong, really very strong contribution from asset management and lease business. And we have also, I mean, and that's a technical answer, also a strong equity contribution from Shuhai. I mean, Shuhai is a very profitable location, and equity contribution grew.
You know, we have only the PW1100 PW1100 portion of the revenues in our, let's say, MRO revenue line. The EBIT, we take 50% of the net income into the EBIT line. That also, let's say, gives a certain tailwind to margin. On the long term, I think we have head and tailwinds, yeah, but we're gonna talk about that in our capital markets day.
Yeah. Okay, so if I could just try one more, and I know you don't want to give too much away ahead of the CMD, but is there any... I sort of have the same question as Phil, about are there any exceptional benefits right now? Is there a risk that you're gonna tell us that MRO margins are peak in 2024, and they come down, or can we assume that they can at least stay at this level, maybe get better, if I'm allowed to ask that ahead of the CMD?
At least it's not our intention that, or not our target, that 2024 is the peak level.
For MRO?
For MRO, as in any other business, David, we have ambitious target, and that goes up and not down. Yeah.
All right. Look forward to the CMD. Thank you very much.
You're welcome. Thanks.
Thank you. We will now go to our next question. Mr. Aymeric Poulain from Kepler Cheuvreux, please, when we have your question.
Thank you very much. I've got some follow-up question to David's questions on the MRO. What is the turnaround time today at this MRO, if I may ask? And then on the associate, you mentioned Shuhai as a driver, of course, but if you look at the EBIT contribution from the associate, it's growing at a lower pace year-on-year than the MRO top line. So what's driving the drag on the EBIT line there? And then on the OE side, you said the V2500 organic growth was a negative in the first quarter. It was coming back up in the second quarter. What was it in the third quarter, if I may ask as well?
And then, looking at the decision to cut the dividend in the first half, given the very strong progress you've had so far, and the ambitious target you have, is there a reason to assume that you may actually resume the 40% payout sooner than later? Thank you.
No, there's, there hasn't been a decision made regarding dividend. I mean, we have finally canceled dividend policy for 2024 , but until 2026 , so the time when we have expected payout for the fleet management program. And I would say, and we're gonna revisit our dividend policy or reinstate the reinstatement of our dividend policy after we are above the hill, I would say. So, so at the more or less at the end of the fleet management program. So when we have the lion's share of the airline payments behind us, and so we have a very good picture going forward regarding cash flow. Mm-hmm.
Regarding at-equity contribution, I mean, in the P&L, if you look on the P&L of companies accounted in equity, it's an increase from 66- 74. So it's basically an increase. Well, MLS is not an equity, so MLS is in the fully consolidated 100%. It's not in the at-equity line, right? In the at-equity line, you find Shuhai, you find the lease co from the GTF, and you find the EME joint venture with Lufthansa in Poland. So. And the other third question was about the turnaround time at MRO, but you need to specify because we have plenty of engine programs. Is it in general or is it one program in specific?
In general, and how it evolves throughout the year.
Well, I'd say, well, you know, this is we have, I don't know, 20 programs in our facilities. I'd say overall, and this is in line with what we said all the time, you know, supply chain was dampening a little bit the turnaround times, but we're improving on every program. So the average time, I would probably say it's three digit. Yeah, and it needs to go down to ideally double digit, high double digit overall across programs. And then more specifically on other programs, you can touch base with our IR if you're more interested. But the trend is decreasing in turnaround times, generally for all our shops.
Good. Thank you.
Thank you. We will now take our next question. Mr. Jorge González Sadornil from Hauck Aufhäuser Investment Banking. May we have your question?
Hello, good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. Two, if I may, first one on the spare parts and the spare parts increase in prices. Can you confirm from which month these price increases were started? That will be my first question. Second one, and again, on the growth of the OE segment, I am wondering if you can give us more or less the growth in output in general of engines in the period, in units, if possible, just to understand this growth, taking into account that normally the spare parts was understood to be like two-thirds of the revenue.
Now, at the pace it went up in the nine months, looks like you are selling more engines at full price. Could you give us some color here, why the OEM revenues are going up at this pace, taking into account the spare parts business in the nine months were not as high as what you are expecting for the end of the year? Thank you.
The pricing is effective October first. I mean, typically we have something like a split, two-thirds spare parts, one-third OE. So that's a rule of thumb. But that can obviously fluctuate. So you have engine mix, obviously, small engines, large engines, and that's why it does not make sense to add up deliveries. Now, that gives you no information. If you have a quarter where you sell a lot of business jet engines, so the revenue impact is lower. If you have larger engines, then the revenue impact is larger and so on. So to add up deliveries does not really make sense.
Yes, I mean, the growth is supported by, I mean, spare engines come at lower discounts, so the revenue impact is higher, so that one spare engines delivered has more revenue impact than one spare, one engine installed. That's true, but for as a baseline, you can always say two-thirds, one-third.
Okay. But, then let me follow up on this. So for the commercial engine, sorry, for the organic commercial spare parts, are you here including also the spare engines you are selling at full price or only the parts itself?
No, only the spare parts are spare parts, no engines. So the spare engines-
Okay.
Go into the commercial OEM.
... But then we can say that you are selling more engines at full price and not at discount?
At a higher price, yes. Yeah, sure.
Okay. But this is because-
We mentioned that two or three times on the call, that currently the share of spare and lease engines is higher than, let's say, a typical quarter. And that has-
Okay. But-
Yeah.
But maybe I have not, my question was not clear. So, is there any trend on lower discounts in general for OEMs, or that remains more or less the same, and it is just a mix of this quarter and maybe the year?
Yes, the latter.
Okay. Thank you very much.
Yeah. Okay.
I go back to the line.
Thank you. As a reminder, if you'd like to ask a question, please press star one, one on the touchtone telephone. The operator will announce your name when it's your turn to ask a question. If you wish to cancel your question, please press star one, one again. We will now take the next question. Mr. Olivier Brochet from Redburn Atlantic, may we have your question?
Yes, thank you so much, and good morning, gentlemen. Thanks for taking my question. I would have a couple on leasing and on the portfolio. What is the asset value broadly that you have on your books for the leasing assets? And what's the average duration of the lease on the portfolio? That's the first question. The second one is, could you give us an update on the timeline for the Advantage, please?
I mean, Olivier, Peter, yes. So we don't disclose the asset value, but we have, let's say, a little bit more than 100 engines in our engines in our portfolio, covering, let's say, especially the engines we have in our MRO portfolio, because that is a typical exit after you when you purchase used engines, you use the green time on the engine. And if when you have flown down the green time, you induct it for tear down and use the used materials. So you have a natural, let's say, exit via used material. A typical duration part, we typically, as I said, buy used green time engines, you typically have, let's say, 3-4 years on average, green time on the engine.
So we have it typically three, four years in our portfolio, and then you tear it apart. For the lease engines, as I said, we have to do also asset management, so that can also mean you buy an engine and sell an engine directly, yeah.
Yeah. Yep, yeah. Clear. Thank you.
The Advantage, Olivier, is I would say we are on a final approach towards certification. What we said throughout the last month is that entry into service will happen in the year 2025. Don't pin me and pinpoint me on the month, but it will happen in 2025. Certification first, obviously, and then some months' time until entry into service.
And not months, but quarter or half? Try my luck.
No, there are some variables also from the bureaucracy and from the authorities. I wouldn't... It's not this Q1.
Okay. Yeah, thank you for that. I appreciate it.
Thank you. As there are no further questions, I would like to hand back to Mr. Thomas Franz, Vice President, Investor Relations, for closing remarks.
Yes, so I'm just seeing that we just arrived with another question, so we can digest that one more, and then we close the call.
Of course, no problem. We will take the last question. And the question comes from Victor Allard, from Goldman Sachs. May we have your question?
Good morning, everyone. Thank you for squeezing me in again. Just a question on FX. Looking at the evolution of the hedge book versus Q2, we can see that rates for 2025 and beyond are, in most cases, seeing a deterioration of one or two cents, which seems that in terms of the incremental hedges in Q3 that you've seen coming at significantly lower rates. I'm talking like in comparison with what we've seen in terms of the evolution of forward and spot rates. So I'm just wondering if there's been a change in your approach recently, or should we just look through this Q3 evolution?
The latter, yeah. I mean, you have to look through. I mean, we actually have a step hedging model, so we have a range, let's say, a range of hedge quarters for each quarter. So translating into obviously hedge covers for the year. We roll that model forward and execute it and try to be not at the very low end. We roll it forward, and we had a period of time when we had, let's say, a spot of one eleven or so, a little bit above the one ten. Then if you add the forward premium, then you increase, let's say, the hedge book with rates, obviously a little bit above 110 , 113 , 114 .
That increases then the average hedge rate for the specific year, especially obviously when the total volume of hedges is lower, like in 2026, for example. But there's nothing specific to that.
Okay. Very clear. Thank you.
All right. So, thank you all, participants. Thank you, Lars. Thank you, Peter. Thank you for your questions, and if anything remains, get in contact with the IR team. Thank you very much, and have a good day.
We want to thank Mr. Lars Wagner and Mr. Peter Kameritsch and all the participants of this conference. Goodbye.