RWE Aktiengesellschaft (ETR:RWE)
Germany flag Germany · Delayed Price · Currency is EUR
60.74
+0.80 (1.33%)
Apr 27, 2026, 5:35 PM CET
← View all transcripts

CMD 2023 (Media)

Nov 28, 2023

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, a very warm welcome here from London, from our Capital Markets Day. I'm very pleased that you are interested and that we have so many participants online. Today's press conference is going to be the update of our strategy and our investment planning up to 2030. So our CEO, Dr. Markus Krebber, and our CFO, Dr. Michael Müller, are going to take the floor, and afterwards, you will have the opportunity to ask questions. Before I pass the floor to Dr. Markus Krebber, my request would be, during the speeches, please mute your microphones. And of course, we're also looking forward to you seeing, having your camera on, so you we can be visible to you and vice versa. So many thanks. And now I would like to pass the floor to you, Markus.

Markus Krebber
CEO, RWE

Ladies and gentlemen, a very warm welcome to our press conference on the occasion of our Capital Market Day from the City of London. Two years ago, we launched our major investment and growth program, Growing Green. With Growing Green, we presented our strategy for how we want to develop RWE by 2030 for the first time. We had ambitious plans. RWE was to become greener, bigger, and more valuable. Today, it's time to take stock and take a look at how far we've come. We've been driving towards the transformation of our company at a rapid pace since 2021, and this despite the challenges of recent years. First and foremost, because of the energy crisis, we've delivered on our promises operationally and financially as well, and we have even exceeded our targets. We have registered profitable growth.

We have exceeded our earnings guidance every year in the last three years. Since 2021, we have invested EUR 20 billion net. We have expanded our green portfolio by 9 gigawatts to 35 gigawatts, and currently, we have 100 additional projects with a total capacity of 7.8 gigawatts under construction in 10 countries. Thanks to our business development and strategic acquisitions, we have established RWE as one of the leading companies in the field of renewable energy in Europe, UK, and the U.S. We have significantly strengthened our project development pipeline and our global team, RWE, which is striving toward forward the energy transition, has grown by 2,800 experts since 2021. So I'm happy to be able to say RWE is greener, bigger, and also more valuable.

Thomas Denny
Head of Investor Relations, RWE

With Growing Green-

Markus Krebber
CEO, RWE

With Growing Green, we do not only have focus on our expanding of our portfolio, but also have the combination of all our activities with a clear target, become Net Zero by 2040. Last year, we agreed with the German government and the state government of North Rhine-Westphalia, so that RWE would exit coal by 2030. So that's 8 year earlier, 8 years earlier than previously planned. With this, reducing our CO2 emissions in line with the 1.5-degree target, we expect the renowned Science Based Targets initiative to confirm this by the spring. Ladies and gentlemen, investment in green technologies is shaping our sector and the entire industrial environment. In addition, the energy crisis has put the issue of energy security back into the political and public spotlight. RWE is perfectly positioned for this with its strategy-integrated business model.

Renewables, combined with flexible and firm generation capacity based on modern and increasingly green technologies, and complemented by our global energy trading business within market and commercialization expertise. At the same time, it's absolutely clear that there is need for investment in all the energy sector in all our core markets in this decade. It's not a question of investing here or there. Investment options are everywhere because all countries are working on making their energy system sustainable and secure. We have the prerequisites and capabilities to significantly accelerate our growth once again in this environment. There are three reasons why we increase our targets. Firstly, our solid balance sheet and high cash-generating operating portfolio gives us significant financial headroom and flexibility. Secondly, our attractive project pipeline of future investment opportunities allows us to pick and choose the investments with the most attractive return profile.

And thirdly, our teams have had many years of expertise and extensive knowledge along the entire value chain, from the development to construction operations, right through the successful marketing of our projects. All means that we are capable of delivering even more ambitious investment growth targets. We are going to invest even more into the energy transition. I would now like to present to you in detail what we've planned right to the end of this decade. We're going to increase our investments. In the years 2024-2030, we want to globally invest EUR 55 billion net in renewables, batteries, flexible generation, and hydrogen projects.... We will also accelerate our capacity additions. In 2030, our portfolio will consist of more than 65 GW of generation capacity.

This means that more than 30 additional gigawatts of net capacity by the end of the decade. Our growth ambitions are backed by our extensive global project pipeline. Today, our total pipeline stands at more than 100 gigawatts across all technologies. That means compared to 2021, we have almost doubled the capacity of our development pipeline. How will we proceed? Our extensive pipeline, broad, large, diversified across all technologies and markets, allows us to choose those investments that are most attractive and have got a good risk return profile. We apply a strict investment criteria when deciding which projects we actually realize. Across all regions and technologies, our average internal rate of return for new projects is 8%. We also have a clear picture when it comes to the question where and in which technologies we should invest.

Our existing core markets remain our strategic focus, first and foremost, our German domestic market, the U.K., and the U.S. We also want to continue to grow in the other European core markets and in selected markets in APAC, that's Australia, Japan, and Korea. More than half of the EUR 55 billion net that we plan to invest in years 2024 to 2030 is marked for Europe. So Germany is and will remain one of our most important markets. We intend to spend 20% of our total investments in our domestic market in the next seven years. This means that we want to invest about EUR 11 billion net, which represents an increase of 20% compared to our previous investment plans for the entire decade.

We have focused on putting our onshore and solar business in Germany on a broader footing over the past two years. The energy transition is happening locally. This is why we have opened up seven regional offices in Germany, so that brings us closer to the communities where we realize projects. In addition, in the offshore business, following the successful commission of Kaskasi, we have secured the next major project for offshore with the Nordseecluster, and also, we want to build hydrogen-ready, gas-fired power plants, batteries, and electrolyzer capacity in Germany. The UK accounts for the largest share of our green portfolio. We also want to continue to grow here and maintain the pace of investment.

In the years from 2024 to 2030, we want to invest a net total of around EUR 8 billion in the UK. In addition, the US remains another focal point of our investment activities. With our successful acquisition at the beginning of the year, RWE has become the number four in renewable energy and number two in solar energy in the US. And in the offshore business, we have the first offtake contracts that have been awarded for one of our projects. We also want to strengthen our leading market position in the US. This is why we have earmarked EUR 20 billion net for future investments here, and we're going to make further investments in Europe and in APAC. Ladies and gentlemen, we are allocating our investments not only to different markets, but also to different technologies. We are positioning ourselves more broadly.

In addition to offshore and onshore wind, we are focusing more strategically than before on solar energy and batteries. 40% of the planned EUR 55 billion net is to be invested in the expansion of our onshore and wind and solar business. Our installed capacity in the onshore wind sector is set to increase from 8.6 GW straight to 14 GW by 2030. We'll make by far the biggest leap in solar energy. We're massively expanding our solar portfolio from the current 3.9 GW to 16 GW by the end of the decade. In offshore wind, we want to maintain our leading position. This is why we have earmarked 35% of our capital expenditure for offshore projects. We're set to triple our offshore capacity, reaching 10 GW by 2030. Our target of 10 GW is backed by defined projects.

Our build-out plan includes two offshore wind project currently under construction, Sofia in the UK, and Thor in Denmark. We also have several projects under development in several countries, which are to be commissioned over the coming years by 2030. This includes, to name just a few, in Germany, we've got our North Sea cluster off the island of Juist, with 1.6 GW, in the Netherlands, OranjeWind, and in Ireland, Dublin Array, each with 0.8 GW. And in the U.S., the first phase of our project, Community Offshore Wind, with 1 GW. For this project, we were awarded an offtake contract by the State of New York a month ago, obtained, and this was done at an attractive price.

The offshore wind industry is currently in a difficult situation, even though it's absolutely undisputed that this technology is absolutely indispensable for the transformation of the energy system. For RWE, I can be very clear, we are realizing our offshore project as planned. Not one of our offshore projects under construction or in development is affected by economic difficulties. One reason is we have prepared ourselves for the challenges in the supply chain because of our proactive risk management, we have made timely purchases from our suppliers, and at the same time, we have diversified our suppliers base. In addition to the profitable expansion of our portfolio, its sustainability is also the key part of our renewable energy projects. This is because we want to operate our renewables assets in harmony with the ecosystem.

To this end, we rely on innovations such as recyclable rotor blades for offshore wind. The first one's already turning at our German offshore wind farm, Kaskasi. They will also be used at Sofia and Thor projects, and this is just one example of many. Flexible generation capacities are the backbone of the energy transition. Where processes cannot be electrified, hydrogen comes into play. This is why 25% of our investments up to the end of the decade have been earmarked for batteries, flexible generation plants and hydrogen. Batteries are playing an ever-increasing part in our energy system. This is because they buffer the intermittency of renewables and thus ensure great stability. We therefore want to significantly grow our battery portfolio from the current 0.5 GW to 6 GW over the next seven years.

The buildup of hydrogen-ready gas-fired power plants is key to the security of supply in many countries. This is particularly true for Germany, where we want to end coal-fired power generation by 2030. We therefore plan to build at least 3 GW of hydrogen-ready gas assets by 2030. Unfortunately, however, there is still no regulatory framework in place to enable such investments. We are really urgently waiting for this. Depending on the regulatory framework, we could also significantly increase our targets. In addition to new build hydrogen-ready gas-fired power plants, we at RWE are working on making our gas fleet capable of Net Zero operations. In lighthouse projects in the Netherlands and in the U.K., we are investigating the conversion of assets of hydrogen as well as CCS. This is another key technology for the decarbonization of our economy.

Another element of our future portfolio is the production of green hydrogen. Our objective is to have 2 gigawatts of our own electrolyzer capacity by the end of the decade. We're already involved in numerous project with partners in Germany, in the UK, and in the Netherlands. As part of the Pembroke Net Zero Centre in Wales, we're progressing our electrolyzer project to enable our, the production of hydrogen by 2027. As part of our offshore project, OranjeWind in the Netherlands, we're developing a electrolyzer site by 2028, where we want to have the first, system of its kind. And as part of, GET H2 Nukleus in Lingen, Germany, our 24-megawatt pilot plant is scheduled to be commissioned in the spring.

Furthermore, we have received permission for the construction and operation of a further 200 megawatts, and we're waiting for the green light from Brussels for the funding of the project. Ladies and gentlemen, we remain true to our Growing Green strategy and forging ahead at full speed. We're once again increasing our investment significantly so that our green portfolio will grow to more than 65 gigawatts. This is also going to result in strong earnings growth. In 2030, our adjusted EBITDA is going to be more than EUR 9 billion. Our adjusted net income will then be EUR 3 billion. My colleague, Michael Müller, is now going to give you further details about our financial objectives and the investment plans.

Michael Müller
CFO, RWE

Thank you, Markus. Ladies and gentlemen, a warm welcome also from myself to our press conference. At our last Capital Markets Day, two years ago, we committed to deliver value-added investments and strict risk management. Furthermore, growth and attractive returns for our shareholders, and we've delivered. Despite the energy crisis, RWE has grown profitably and sustainably. We have met our profitability targets for all our investments. We have proved our financial strength, in particular during the energy crisis. We have always had a firm grip on our liquidity, thanks to our strong and broad core bank portfolio. We've optimally managed the risks on the commodity markets, even in extreme market conditions, and our strong Investment-Grade Rating was never at risk. You can also see how successful we have been from the development of our share performance.

Since our last Capital Markets Day, we have created a total shareholder return of 24%. This means that the RWE share significantly outperformed the utilities index. Markus Krebber has just outlined the massive increase in our investments. There is a reason why we are tackling this with such confidence and determination: RWE's strong financial headroom. Our investment and growth program is fully financed until 2030. We finance around 80% of our financial requirements for investments and dividends from a strong cash flow of our operating business. On top of this, comes debt capital. Thanks to our strong investment-grade rating, we're able to borrow at very attractive conditions. We ensure that our liabilities have a long-term, balanced profile.

This has paid off in view of the rising interest rates over the past two years. We want the financing of our green growth to be green, using Green Bonds or other green and sustainable financing instruments. With our new green financing framework, which is aligned with the EU Taxonomy, we are further strengthening RWE's position in the market for green financing instruments. Sustainable investment is of great importance to international investors and banks. This demonstrates the great interest in our Green Bonds. Since 2021, RWE has already successfully issued several Green Bonds with a total nominal volume of EUR 5 billion, thereby establishing a strong position in the green financial markets. With our financing strategy, we're pursuing a clear goal. We want to maintain our strong investment-grade rating in the future as well. Our high investments will lead to a steady growth in earnings.

Our adjusted EBITDA will grow by an average of 14% each year this decade. 2030, we expect more than EUR 9 billion. When Growing Green started, 2021, our EBITDA stood at EUR 2.8 billion. Our adjusted net income will also grow this decade, every year by an average of 12% to EUR 3 billion in 2030. We also want our shareholders to be able to participate in this strong growth, backed by a new dividend policy. Dividends are set to increase by 5%-10% annually, and for the fiscal year 2024, our dividend target is EUR 1.1 per share. For the fiscal year 2023, in March, we already announced that we intended to pay EUR 1 per share. And back to you, Markus. Ladies and gentlemen, Growing Green is more than just the name of our strategy.

Growing Green is a commitment to profitable growth. It is our commitment to use this decade for massive build-up of climate-friendly technologies. We will deliver on this commitment. To date, we have already achieved more than originally even planned, and now we are taking Growing Green to the next level: EUR 55 billion of net investments within 7 years. 2030, we will operate a broadly diversified portfolio, which will be well-balanced across our European core markets, the U.S., and APAC. Around 60% of our total generating capacities will be in wind and solar, perfectly complemented by batteries, flexible generation, and green hydrogen production. To do this, we are building the most modern plants available worldwide. We are taking old power plants off the market. This is how we are rapidly going to decarbonize our portfolio, always with a clear goal in mind: net zero by 2040.

Our strategy is in line with the 1.5-degree path. RWE is the pacemaker of the energy transition. Now we are looking forward to hearing from you with your questions.

Operator

Yes, thank you, Michael. Thank you, Markus. We are now happy to take any questions. Just to let you know, if you would like to ask a question, please just enter your name and your media outlet in the chat, and then I will give you the mic, one after the other. We have two chat rooms. One is for colleagues in the U.K., and one is for media representatives in Germany. Anyone in the U.K. is obviously more than welcome to ask their question in English, and we will also answer them in English. Members of the German media are invited to speak German or English, whichever they please. So here we go.

The first question from Christopher from Reuters, Christopher Steitz from Reuters. Please don't forget to unmute my microphone. Mr. Steitz, go ahead. Ask your question, please.

Christoph Steitz
Chief Company News Correspondent, Reuters

Yeah, hello from Frankfurt. Hello, from Frankfurt. I have three questions I would like to ask, please. I would like to know how you feel about the budget fiasco in the German government at the moment. What has that got to do with the energy projects in Germany? What impact will this situation with the German budget have to do with the energy transition in Germany? That's my first question to you, Mr. Müller. And then also a question regarding your willingness. I noticed that you are willing to speak with Amprion, that you might be willing to change the stakes. So in principle, would you be willing to consider a sale? Is there a prospective willingness to do that?

And yes, my third question, I wanted to hear from you, there was a statement you made during the investors webcast, and you said, if you wouldn't be able to find any projects that fulfill your return requirements, that the shareholders would benefit from that, meaning dividend-wise. I imagine there might also be other ways of paying off the shareholders, maybe in the shape of a repurchase of shares.

Markus Krebber
CEO, RWE

Thank you, Mr. Steitz, for your question. Firstly, the question about the German budget. We all agree this is not a very nice situation we're in, and let's hope that this situation can be solved quickly. Your question regarding what consequences that might have, I cannot answer because I cannot guess how that will be resolved. A lot of financing is unresolved at the moment.

The German government is working on the budget for 2023 and 2024 at the moment, urgently, so we have to wait and see. For our portfolio, I am currently not expecting massive influence, but I do think it will be very helpful if this budget situation is solved as quickly as possible. Let me answer for Amprion. We are always open for conversation, and also in this particular case. But at the other side, or on the other side, we're also very happy with the investments we have made here. So from our point of view, that is not an issue. Your question regarding financing, we have emphasized once more that there is a broad portfolio that we are investing in. We're going to increase it. We have 100 GW in the pipeline, as we mentioned, so there are plenty of attractive investment opportunities.

In the case that shouldn't be an option and something doesn't match our requisites, prerequisites, we'll have to reconsider, and in a concrete situation, we would make the decisions as and when, how to resolve that. But that's a hypothetical consideration. It's important to think, where are we right now? Where are we using the capital we have available to us right now? How can we invest in the energy transition?

Christoph Steitz
Chief Company News Correspondent, Reuters

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you, Michael. The next question comes from Annette Becker, from the newspaper, Börsen-Zeitung, and then a colleague from the DPA. Ms. Becker, please, over to you.

Annette Becker
Analyst, Börsen-Zeitung

I hope you can hear me. Unfortunately, I cannot activate my camera at the moment. Can you hear me? Can you hear me?

Operator

Yes, we can hear you, Ms. Becker.

Annette Becker
Analyst, Börsen-Zeitung

Okay, great. I do apologize, I cannot activate my camera. I don't know why, but I have two questions. Firstly, at the past Capital Markets Day, you emphasized gross and net investments. Today, you've only spoken about net investments. Is this because you're also going to consider partial sales for investments? Or how does that, how can we understand that? Looking at the charts and the details you have presented, it is very clear that 2024, you're expecting certain results. Can you explain that?

There's a dip in your expectations in 2024. Is that because you have taken out nuclear power? Can you explain that?

Michael Müller
CFO, RWE

Thank you, Ms. Becker. Thank you for your question. I can answer the first, and Michael will take the second. We have consciously chosen to emphasize the net investments this time. This is due to the market conditions. Maybe you can remember two and a half years ago, we spoke about investing as much as possible in certain areas. We had low interests at that point in time. The risk tolerance we had was very high. That was also the desire we understood from the markets. Sales was a growth point, and then investments were net. But the investment situation has changed. It is less simple.

The interests have increased massively, and that's why we are focusing on investment promises in net, and that's why the communications are showing the net investments. It could be higher in gross. We do know that it is higher in gross terms, because we already have partners with offshore partners and offshore projects these days. But we're not going to set up a target number for that, because what ends under the line at RWE is a net result, unless we sell parts of the portfolio. But we're not going to make any firm promises or commitments about that right now, because that is dependent on the development. Maybe I can comment on the results we forecast for 2024.

So we decided to show the nuclear results and the neutral results for 2024, and that's why if you look at the Adjusted EBITDA and adjusted net income, it is looking lower. It's just a different depiction of the figures. And if you look at the different results of the nuclear segment, you'll see decreasing margins, because the electricity prices are sinking, and we're also expecting a normalization of our trading business, where on the opposite side, we are expecting changes, particularly in the onshore business, where new projects like onshore, solar, and batteries are being commissioned and will have an impact on the results. Particularly in the offshore markets, especially in this year just gone, we have commissioned Kaskasi and some other areas. We are planning Sofia and Thor up until 2026. So there are going to be increases in capacity, but not until then.

Okay, let me give the next speaker the microphone. It's Lewin Wagner from the DPA. Thank you very much. I'd like to speak about the offshore markets that you don't seem to be feeling the pain from at the moment. But you have said that you have taken out some more risky markets. You've taken a bit of a step back from the risky markets. Can you explain what those are, the markets that you have taken a step back from? Yes. Luckily, we haven't struggled with our offshore portfolio. We're happy about that. That's also due to the fact that we've done a good job. We have purchased turbines in time. We have reserved capacity for installation soon enough, like ships, et cetera. The markets we had still at the time were Southern European markets like Italy, in terms of offshore.

At the moment, the market portfolio or market potential is lower there. Our aim was also to consider Taiwan, but we are not in Taiwan anymore, and the Asian market. We were also looking at developing smaller markets, but we have consciously taken a step back from that. The portfolio we have now would have been overburdened if we had still considered those. We don't want to go down the wrong path in order to still achieve what we promised in time.

Operator

The next question from Antje Höning from the Rheinische Post, then Ms. Sorge from Bloomberg. Ms. Höhning, go ahead.

Antje Höning
Analyst, Rheinische Post

Hello, from Düsseldorf to London. I have two questions. One about the gas power plants. Until when do you need clarity? And do you expect a big capacity push from Habeck? And then in terms of phasing out coal, the government and Christian Lindner, the minister, are making that more difficult. Is it necessary for you to continue the power plants in the area around the Rhine because this doesn't match your strategy at all?

Markus Krebber
CEO, RWE

Thank you, Ms. Höhning. Those two questions are very, very strongly linked with each other. Let me answer them very clearly. In the worst case, we need nothing. It wouldn't be good for the country, but if we are not being given frameworks for the gas power plants, we won't be able to build them. And in terms of the coal concept, the forecast is that we have promises for 2030, commitments.

We have plans to phase out and decommission those plants. The government has to reserve some capacities if necessary, but we are going to do it based on the instructions of the government, and they then are factually their plants. That is their route map that we're following. If it's planned for 2030, we will need tenders by next year for the hydrogen-ready gas-fired power plants. Over the next five to six years, we're going to have to work on that. We may be able to accelerate that, but there's a whole chain of approvals needed to achieve that. We will need clarity as quickly as possible. If there are no tenders next year, then phasing out coal by 2030 will be questionable.

We don't necessarily need the capacity market or whatever you wanna call it, but what we need is remuneration for the performance of those plants. They generate power. They're supposed to be a backup, an emergency service if there is not enough renewable power in the grid. Then we need a clear framework for the remuneration, whether that's a payoff over 30 years, whether that's a payment upfront, it doesn't matter. It just needs to be an amount of money, and whoever does the best work on the tender will probably be given the contract.

Operator

The next question is Petra Sorge from Bloomberg. Hello, Ms. Sorge.

Michael Müller
CFO, RWE

Hello, thank you very much. Mr. Krebber, are you going to attend the COP conference as well? And are you going to participate in the talks about the energy, the LNG—pardon me, the LNG provisions? Because I think there are some very long-term contracts over up to 27 years in discussion amongst European energy providers. Why is that something RWE has taken a step back from, long-term delivery contracts over a duration of 10 years, considering we are currently in a situation where everything is being decommissioned? And then a quick question about Urenco. Is there any thought process about increasing capacities in order to help out other companies, in order to get away from uranium from Russia, for example, as a partial owner? Thank you, Ms. Sorge. I look forward to more interactions with people like you at our roadshow.

We are looking for investors, and I'm also going to stop by for 2 days in the Emirates, and then I travel on to the U.S. So yes, I will also be on the sidelines of the COP 28 meetings, but there are no plans at this event or further around the event to conclude any contracts. We are expecting to make no significant contracts or sign significant contracts with any one of those attending or the U.S. We are happy with our portfolio. But we do imagine there might be interest in a long-term supply contract, maybe over 10 years as well. But what is not going to be doable is commitments into the late 30s for deliveries into Europe. It is only possible if a long-term offtake contract is flexible enough to deliver into countries who may need natural gas longer.

So a firm commitment to deliver into Germany over that time is not going to be made. Regarding Urenco, Urenco is not a uranium company as such. It's uranium re-enrichment, so I don't know how we can help. But I'm not going to comment, actually, because we have a financial commitment, and we are not linked into the decision-making of that management. So what I know is the same as what you know. It's what's publicly available in terms of information, so I cannot comment much more. Otherwise, you would need to ask Urenco UK directly.

Ms. Sorge. Mr. Nathan Witkop from Montel. Hello, Mr. Witkop.

Operator

Hello. Good afternoon. I've got a general question about the condition of the energy markets. To Mr. Krebber. Today, in foreign, we see a certain volatility in the markets. For certain technologies are supposed to be replaced, because regulation is supposed to help with this. We can see subsidies of the generators, also the consumers, in order to get around the price risks and in order to see the functionalities, there are contract conditions. There's there are caps to energy prices, options of offshore wind energy, not including price criteria, capacity numbers for some technologies, but not for others. So the question is, are the best times of the liberalization of the energy markets, are they ahead of us, or are they past, are they things of the past?

If you see a future for energy markets, and how? So, Mr. Witkop, this is a very interesting question. We could talk about it for a long time. I try to be brief at the end. What I thought you were saying, liberalization of energy markets are good, but I think, those who are, in charge of the grid, they want to have a proper regulation, so not to depend on the situations and on different energies. So, it's the situation of the regulatory framework. So an offshore wind park is nothing else but a partially regulated installation with a component of competition. It's rather having the monopoly in the grid.

So everywhere where you have competition, which of course, might look differently depending whether I've got volatile fossil energies or renewable with a national framework, depending on the kind of competition we're talking about. So if the government is not active, but as one of the actors of the players, if there are good possibility for development for companies as like ours, I do not see any risk in any of the markets that there would be attempt of, to, of a nationalization of the market. But the component on, of competition is changing. I build a power station, but then also need to have the fuels, but then also have to have a good energy price in the offshore area, but the price is regulated by competition. Many thanks, Marcus. Next question is from WAZ, from Mr.

Stefan Schulte. Before we go over to the UK chat, hello, Mr. Schulte. A very warm welcome to Essen from Essen. Greetings from Essen, from your home city. Questions to London, sending to London. In your communications, you said that decarbonization is supposed to be accelerated at the same time. How should we understand it? Do you want to phase out coal even earlier, and do you want to lower the capacity of a coal-fired power stations? Or is the coal part going to decrease, but more renewables? And then the question about net profit increased by 12%, EUR 3 billion is the final target. When is it going to be worthwhile? Because you're above that, aren't you, without the hard coal? And also a question about gas, you described the situation.

If you still want to have at least gigawatt in extension, is that not enough in order to compensate for the coal if it's phased out? Many things. A second question, the basis is 2021, before the energy crisis. Everything is referring to that time between 2021 and 2030, as far as our growth rate is concerned, and then the 14% EBITDA, and then, do we get an increase in income? To accelerate decarbonization, two elements to that. So that we want to invest more in green technologies, we decarbonize our portfolio much more quickly on average. As this is also seen in the Science Based Targets initiative, so the CO₂ emissions is per average kilowatt hour. And of course, it's going to decrease if you invest more in better and in better, in green technologies.

But we want to accelerate the renewables in Germany, and the assumption as to how the... If you look at the utilization rate of our coal-fired power station, you can also see that their capacity has been lower compared to two or three years ago. And if you look in 2027, coal only accounts for 10% in terms of capacity and generation. So the acceleration is greater. So the gigawatt gas-fired power station, I mean, it only happens if we get replacement of capacity. Our market share of RWE is 3.5, no, 3.4 gigawatt.

Not three, but we also put forward an investment plan to our investors, and there's a regulatory framework, and I can only reserve it for that. So we clearly said today, if the regulatory framework exists, and if it's decent, we can also increase our targets. But of course, we need to have the right calculation. If we had put down a three gigawatt, we put 55, we would have EUR 55 billion available. But it means we have to take it out somewhere else in order to make sure that the investment conditions are clear. We want to have a proper call for tender for a gas-fired power station, but in order to replace the coal, it's certainly not going to happen.

Markus Krebber
CEO, RWE

... at the lower end with our RWE. Many thanks.

Thomas Denny
Head of Investor Relations, RWE

From abroad. First one is, Alex Blackburn from S&P Global. Hi, Alex. We can't hear you. Sorry for that. Do you have unmuted your mic? Can you please try again? Hello, Alex, can you hear us? No, we are just checking again. One moment.

Alex Blackburne
Senior Reporter, European Power, S&P Global

Hello, can you hear me?

Thomas Denny
Head of Investor Relations, RWE

Yeah, now we can hear you. Hello.

Alex Blackburne
Senior Reporter, European Power, S&P Global

Thank you. Hi, thanks. I've got three questions, if I may. One is just on the net cash investments to 2030. This looks like a really significant increase from the last CMD. I think you said EUR 30 billion for 2021-2030 last time around, and now it's EUR 55 billion in a shorter timeframe. So I just wanted to understand exactly what has kind of contributed to such a significant increase, and I wondered how much of it is simply down to the fact that you expect some projects to be more expensive than they were two years ago? So that's question one. Two, I'd just like to also understand a bit more about this selective investment criteria that you mentioned about kind of picking and choosing projects based on the best returns.

Can you give me any examples on projects where you've done this or kind of projects where you've maybe pushed back because of the unattractive returns relatively speaking? And then thirdly, just looking to 2024, there's potentially up to, I think, about 50 gigawatts of offshore wind auctions happening in Europe alone. You obviously already have a significant development pipeline in offshore, so I wondered to what extent you've looking at these new opportunities next year, and in which markets you would be looking at?

Michael Müller
CFO, RWE

Shall I take the first ones? So Alex, on... First, you are right. This program is a significant step up in our investment program, so now EUR 55 billion in a shorter timeframe. And, I mean, most of that is coming just from stronger cash flows that we have seen in the last three years compared to our initial forecast, and we are also seeing going forward. And obviously, there's then a reinforcing effect with more of those cash flows being invested into new projects. They also contribute then, and especially in the later years, to additional cash flow. That's one effect. Secondly, what we have also seen is that, we had a very favorable development of our net debt, so we have more capacity on our balance sheet for external financing. That also gives us additional headroom for investments.

At the same time, you also mentioned the second effect. In contrast, we see higher cost for investments, so we see an increase, and that means that though the investment as such go up, the megawatt or gigawatt will put in place relative to that growth, slightly go down. But what is most important is, and that was a topic we intensively also discussed with investors, is that, higher cost and also higher interest also translate into a higher earnings, as we just saw in the auction in the U.S., and also the U.K. has lifted, their price cap for offshore auctions. So therefore, yes, specific CapEx rates have increased, but we also see a higher earnings potential so that overall projects are attractive. And that leads me to the last question you had around returns.

I mean, on returns, the way how we operate is, we have a framework where, based on the specific risk of a project, we determine a project-specific internal rate of return that must be met by a project. So, for example, if you have a PV project in Germany, say, in our own lignite mine, that comes with a lower risk profile, therefore, also our return expectation would be lower than if you go, say, for an offshore project in the U.S., where interest rates in the U.S. are higher. The offshore market in the U.S. still has to mature. So by different return expectation, which each project needs to meet, we then balance the portfolio and come to the best allocation of our capital.

Markus Krebber
CEO, RWE

On your question, which projects have potentially failed? It's difficult to tell you exactly for those projects which are developed by the teams, because they know what the return expectation is, so they will never come with a project which doesn't meet the return expectation. So they stop development activity before then. So this is typically true for onshore wind and solar. But for offshore, of course, you can name it because you have participated in the auction and you were not successful, and that means the prices are at levels which you where we are not fine with. And then one was the French offshore auction, which was awarded for a CfD price around the 40s EUR. And the other one was the German offshore auction with significant lease payments. These are typical examples where we then did not win.

Then your question on the significant auction volume in Europe. I mean, we plan to participate in many of them, that we have already a good pipeline, which backs our investment opportunities, doesn't mean that we stop here. We will continue to develop, because actually these are projects which come, significant part of it beyond 2030, but we keep the machine rolling, but of course, clear eye on return expectations. And if we get more project than we can do ourselves, then I think for good offshore projects, you always find great partners.

... Yeah, thank you, Markus. The next question is coming from the Netherlands. It's from Sabine Sluijters from NHD. Frau Sluijters.

Sabine Sluijters
Journalist, Energeia

Hi there. Can you hear me?

Markus Krebber
CEO, RWE

Yes, we can hear you.

Sabine Sluijters
Journalist, Energeia

Yes? Good. I have three questions for the Netherlands. The first one is: your company has four gas-fired power plants in the Netherlands. Do you plan on making these hydrogen-ready, and how much are you planning to invest in these plants? And my second question would be, next year there will be auctions for new offshore wind farms in the Netherlands. Does RWE plan on bidding for these projects? And my last question is: Well, you, you operate power plants, wind on land, offshore wind farms, and coal and biomass plants in the Netherlands. What will be the main area of investment in our country in the coming years? Thank you.

Markus Krebber
CEO, RWE

Yeah, thank you very much, and, goeiemiddag to the Netherlands. I'm glad that you didn't ask the question in Dutch. First, the question on the gas plants. We're gonna decarbonize our gas plants until 2040, and in the Netherlands, the technologies of choice are either converting them to hydrogen. So Magnum, the one in Amsterdam, will probably go that route because it's already partly hydrogen-ready. For others, we also look into CCS, because, I mean, knowing that the Dutch policies will support CCS, and you get a CCS infrastructure. And then it depends, in the end, on location and, of course, necessary investments. So far, I cannot name the amount of investments because it's not - there is no policy framework for the decarbonization of gas plants.

So probably it needs another 5 years until we have clear visibility, what we're gonna do plant by plant. But the teams are developing the different options. On the offshore auctions, I mean, just to reiterate that the Netherlands is also a core market for us in offshore, but I cannot go beyond that because you typically don't communicate exactly what you intend to do in certain auctions. And then you are right, we also operate biomass, also other technologies. Our core investments in the Netherlands will be in all renewable technologies. So offshore wind, you know that we're gonna build OranjeWind with the system integration, with e-boilers, with batteries, with electrolyzers. Then also we continue onshore wind and solar, and also decarbonizing the gas assets.

Currently, I don't see that we actually need new gas-fired or H2-ready gas plants in the Netherlands, because there is significant capacity. The task is more to decarbonize it.

Operator

Thanks, Markus. The next question is from Philipp Akoto from Energate, and then back to Reuters to Tom Käckenhoff. Mr. Akoto.

Yes, hello.

Markus Krebber
CEO, RWE

Hello.

Operator

My question is referring to... Is there going to be investments in renewables, in projects, if you've got such high targets and if you—if they become more ambitious and also in the wind energy, and then the gas-fired power stations, 3,000 gigawatts, they're referring to Germany, not to Europe?

Markus Krebber
CEO, RWE

I didn't quite get the beginning of the question. The first question was?

Operator

Is there going to be, again, organic growth in renewables, seeing here the objectives?

Markus Krebber
CEO, RWE

Yes, understood. So our current targets is expected with organic growth at this moment in time to buy project carriers. Of course, you're always looking what is available, and you might build buy the odd project. But the objectives that we put forward today, we are able to do so without organic growth. And about hydrogen-capable power stations, we're only looking at Germany. I don't think other core markets, such as Netherlands and the UK, already need new gas-fired power stations because they phased out coal much earlier. And in Germany, it was all about, again, between coal and nuclear. And the amount of gas-fired power stations is quite low in Germany compared to the UK and the Netherlands, hence we need more capacity in Germany for gas-fired power station.

Hence, we're focusing on Germany at this moment in time.

Many thanks for the question, Mr. Akoto. Is from Tom Käckenhoff from, Reuters. Hello, Mr. Käckenhoff.

Sabine Sluijters
Journalist, Energeia

Hello, and I'm sorry the camera is not working. Following question: Because of the good figures, is RWE not a... Might you not be a target for takeover? Are you prepared for this? And, has anybody got in touch with that?

Markus Krebber
CEO, RWE

I always like it when RWE looks attractive, but I can-

... reassure you, can reassure us there have been no talks, no conversations, no intense preparations. Our priorities are very clear in order to carry on with our growth path, and the best way to be protected against takeovers, to have good assessment, and hence we're happy if the share price is further increasing. Many thanks. Another question. Next question, again, from Nathan Witkop, and-

Operator

Uh, Witkop.

Mr. Witkop, you have the floor.

Many thanks. Mr. Krebber, would you be able to explain why you are revising for your expectations in terms of coal generation downwards? Is this about, is this because there's low demand from German industry since 2023, or why do you decrease your expectations in that respect?

Markus Krebber
CEO, RWE

So the main reason, we're with slow quarter, slow on the demand side, the demand side. In the long run, if you consider it, it's quite stable or there's going to be an increase. There's also German industry is asking, has got less of a demand, but in heat generation and transport, the demand in energy is going to grow, compared to 2021. We also had an increase with renewables in Germany, and there has been an acceleration to that. You can also see it with the current licenses.

We have not, we're not as aggressive as the federal government would like us to be, but we're looking at a high, at more extensions at a higher level than expected three years ago, and this is the main reason why we had to have the capacity of coal being used, which is always the last possibility.

Operator

The next question is from Paul Stephen, from Recharge.

Christoph Steitz
Chief Company News Correspondent, Reuters

Good afternoon. I had a question about floating offshore wind, which obviously remains an emerging technology, but one which the UK would like to be a global leader in. So I just wondered what role, if any, you thought this would play in the portfolio by 2030 and possibly beyond? Is it an attractive investment prospect, and what you thought the main challenges were to its deployment?

Markus Krebber
CEO, RWE

Yeah, Paul, thanks for the question. We have no, no gigawatt plans until 2030 in floating. That will all come beyond 2030. When you look in our portfolio, we have already one commercial lease for floating, which, where we were successful, and that is in California, where we are now developing the project. We also expect the auction here in the U.K. for the Celtic Sea, which might come next year, which is also a very big commercial floating offshore project, but also beyond 2030. We strongly believe that floating will be competitive. It will take some time, maybe another, another decade to drive costs down, but then also to make use of all the good wind resources, more distance from the shores. It will come, but it might come a bit later.

So that's why we are driving it. What is missing, besides technology, where we are also actively a contributor to the pilot project, we have one in Norway, one in Spain. What is also of course needed is the regulatory framework and the remuneration framework. I think if today a floating offshore wind project needs to compete in the same pot, then a fixed bottom offshore project in a CfD auction, the floating one will not be successful. So I think there is a good case that you start maybe not with big gigawatt numbers, but with smaller numbers, that you can actually build this industry. And we have seen that in California, and currently there is also the evaluation of a floating offshore bid in France, so the different countries are driving it.

But if you look at your country here in the UK, there is still huge potential for fixed bottom. I think, priority in terms of getting more renewable power into the system is fix the problems we have seen with the last auction round, because, I mean, there can gigawatts of fixed bottom come to the UK.

Operator

Yeah.

Well, ladies and gentlemen, we do not have any further questions in the chat at the moment, but if you, if you did have any further questions, that is not a problem at all. You do know our numbers. Please contact our teams should you have any further questions. What remains is to thank you very, very much for your attention and your participation. In the name of Markus Krebber and Michael Müller, thank you for your attention. We look forward to hearing from you. Have a nice afternoon. Goodbye.

Powered by