Our market positions and the actions we have taken to create these strong roots in changing markets. We will then introduce REFOCUS, including how we will unleash the power of structure and processes, how we will elevate business model, and how we will excel with our people and our culture. Finally, Tobias will discuss how REFOCUS translates into our financial ambitions. Today's presentation will show you how we intend to unlock our full potential. Now, let's get started. We have built a portfolio of strong businesses, each supported by strong technology platforms, deep customer relationships, and also leading market positions. Take silicones. We are number two globally in a concentrated specialty market. Here we leverage our chemistry and engineering know-how to service attractive markets with innovative specialties and solutions.
In polymers, we are the global leader in VAE-based adhesives and coating solutions, providing customers with tailored solutions for evolving market needs. In Biosolutions, we have cutting-edge technologies for healthcare and wellbeing, serving as a leading microbial CDMO in biopharma with a strong innovation pipeline in bioingredients. In polysilicon, we are the leading supplier of ultrapure polysilicon for the next generation of computer chips and semiconductors. This portfolio creates a strong foundation in all dimensions, be it technology, be it the asset base, be it customer proximity, and also be it global reach. We have a well-balanced portfolio across four segments, as you see here. We serve global markets with a strong presence outside of Europe. We provide customers in diversified end markets with high-performance products and solutions, and all this provides resilience and opens avenues for growth. The growth potential obviously varies across the different portfolio.
Some markets are and see strong structural growth, while others grow in line or even below GDP. Fast-growing areas such as electronic semiconductor, healthcare and wellbeing, automotive mobility, and energy and transmission provide strong upside in silicones. Construction markets, however, continue to face headwinds. But even here, there are successes, which we will talk about a little later. Going forward, we will focus innovation and resources on the most attractive opportunities while leveraging our leading market positions. This kind of selective approach is a key element of REFOCUS. On the back of different macro trends, we have adapted our focus to succeed. We advanced our technology leadership, we diversified in end markets, and we expanded in the regions. During all of this, we maintained solid financials, which has always been key cornerstone of our strategy. Now you can see here the different phases, looking back.
From 2006- 2012, we focused primarily on the upstream part. Polysilicon increased capacity sixfold, focusing on the solar opportunities. We expanded siloxane and VAE capacities for growth in Asia, and the investments in total were high in this period. From 2013- 2021, we focused more on downstream specialties to drive profitability and cash generation. Investments were at a medium level, with CapEx primarily tied to the U.S. side in Charleston and mid and downstream investments in chemicals and biotechnology. From 2022- 2025, investments were at a high level again to meet global growth. This time, CapEx was technology-driven with a focus on specialties and solutions across all segments. During this period, as you know, macro tailwinds turned around into headwinds.
Overall, what we all can see in many industries, macro has become much more challenging, with cyclical, structural, and geopolitical headwinds impacting not only our industry, but specifically also the chemical industry. Oversupply, structurally high costs, regulatory uncertainty, supply chain disruption, tariffs, and slowdown in construction. The list could here even be longer than what you see on the slide. For all situations, the result is the same. The growth rates have slowed, competition intensified, and customers became more cautious. The key message here is that we did not stand still and just looked at what's happening. We took bold steps. We initiated a portfolio shift, we protected our margins, and we improved our resilience. In essence, we worked on these things that we could really influence, and I think there's a good track record we can show.
Now, let's have a look at how we acted and what we have already achieved. First, we initiated a portfolio and footprint shift. We expanded in Asia to capture regional growth, and our recent investment in SICO to expand our leading silicone specialties position in China is a great example here. We will show you more later. Second, we protected margins and we managed cost. We implemented a focused pricing strategy and launched PACE. We will also elaborate more on this later. Third, we improved resilience in our sustainability profile. We maintained solid financials. This is the foundation of everything we do, and we did in the past, and will do in the future, focus on solid financials. Now let's move on to the actions taken in each segment, and let's start with the silicones.
Here we strengthened our leading chemistry and engineering know-how to provide customers with tailored solutions in all our business units. Strengthening our global competence and excellence network, we brought new solutions to customers faster and cut the time to market. A good example would be here our Electronics Excellence Center in Korea. Lastly, with our specialties asset base established, we can now really drive potential growth in selected markets. Only limited new investments will be needed. I think that's the key message for today. Going forward, only limited new investments will be needed to fuel our targeted growth. The silicon value chain, as you can see, is long and complex, yet mastering it is the key to success. We truly believe having a full and integrated silicon value chain well run is a success factor and a differentiator in the market. Now, on the left, upstream.
Upstream represents less than 15% of our sales. Our siloxane capacities are used to provide feedstock for captive use downstream, and we are fully invested, and our focus is on cost. Midstream is only a limited share of sales, but these products typically define also the quality of your downstream specialty products, and they are essential ingredients for specialties. We have expanded here in recent years. Today, we are also well invested in this category for future growth. Now, downstream represents more than 85% of our sales, with a split between specialties and solutions. Specialties are these thousands of individual products with a high level of differentiation. I believe our setup would be difficult for competitors to copy. Solutions are more based on customer-specific tailor-made products in close partnerships with specific customer requirements.
As you can see here, we made enormous efforts to strengthen our silicones platform in recent years. We did this in all geographies around the world. We prepared midstream, especially our new downstream assets in Europe and Asia and in America, to position us for substantial growth. The number of projects that you see here mostly parallel those outstanding and clearly outpaced our peers. We have a brand-new margin plant in Panagar in the West of India, which was built up in record time, already delivering to our customers. We have the hybrids plant in Nünchritz, capturing solid growth in the area of construction despite the construction headwinds, because of high-performance products. We have shown a poster on this on the last CMD in Burghausen, and it really develops well. We have a brand-new plant in Karlovy Vary in Czech Republic for LSR and RTV, and I was there recently.
It's a great plant. A lot of new technology, and very sophisticated and motivated team. We will be quite happy to see that. China, SICO, Zhangjiagang, Japan. You can see it here. A lot of downstream investments done in recent years. It's really exciting to see these plants and to imagine what they can deliver for selective growth in the future. Now, let's take a look at our actions taken in polymers. Second, we leveraged our leading application expertise and global technical center network to meet regional customer needs. In the market, we are really known as the innovator. If somebody products and is looking for something new, they come to us. They come to us because they know they get a solution.
A great example here is from know-how transfer. With this setup, we are also well-invested with an unmatched global economies of scale. Now looking at actions taken in Biosolutions. We have invested to establish a cutting-edge biotech platform, and admittedly, I have to say that filling the capacities post-COVID has taken much longer than expected, and therefore we also took actions and we shifted our focus. Polysilicon, we leveraged our ultra-pure polysilicon benchmark quality to extend our semi leadership position. We strengthened relationships with all high-end wafer suppliers, and as you know, we hold roughly 50%+ market share today. Every second computer chip is made, every high-end, I have to say, every high-end computer chip today is made with polysilicon from Wacker. Also here, we do not rest on laurels from the past, but we continue to improve.
We decided and implemented a smart, advanced reactor control system to drive industry-leading process stability and excellence. With our established asset base and our new etching facility in Burghausen, we are positioned to see continued strong growth in semiconductors. While semi is a pure specialty defined by rigorous qualification periods and long-term customer agreements, solar poly is fundamentally a commodity. There is a geopolitical aspect due to the U.S. trade policy, the so-called Section 232. To be prepared, we have maintained the option to supply the U.S. solar market. The Section 232 in its current framework, published on August 6 this year, does not achieve its objective of revitalizing the U.S. polysilicon sector. It does not incentivize the use of U.S.-made polysilicon, and hence, I want to be quite frank here, is a disappointment for us in its current language.
Therefore, we remain engaged in constructive discussions with the administration. For the time being, we will maintain with two scenarios. The first scenario, semi and solar. This outcome is possible if U.S. government takes further actions to strengthen the demand for domestically produced polysilicon. Stringent incentives or protection of the U.S. solar market would lead to a rebound of solar volumes. We would leverage our three sites globally for semi and solar with continued focus on cost and efficiency. EBITDA would benefit from higher utilization rates. The second scenario we call semi only, and this outcome is possible if there is ineffective incentives or protection in the U.S. poly market that would lead to a drop in solar volumes. We would expand our semi leadership and optimize the global site setup. EBITDA would benefit from lower structural costs.
While the first scenario obviously is our preferred option, we believe either one of these scenarios, either one, is better than the uncertainty and the situation that we face today. That said, we will not rush a decision, but we will act clearly once clarity and certainty have been established. The next step in Wacker's evolution is REFOCUS. The last time we were here at the Tate was in 2022. We presented our 2030 ambitions, seeing broad-based demand. Shortly thereafter, tailwinds turned to massive headwinds. Yet the macro environment, of course, cannot be an excuse for not living up to the full potential. Markets evolve, and you have to adapt. The next chapter for us is REFOCUS, and the priorities for this phase are clear. It's profitability, it's ROCE, and it is selected growth in attractive markets. And this requires a new playbook.
Less emphasis on building new capacities, greater focus on speed, execution, and portfolio management and commercial excellence. Now, let's look how REFOCUS defines further actions. REFOCUS is a holistic approach to improve how we operate, compete, and create value. We have defined three strategic priorities that reinforce one another. First, we will unleash the potential of our structure and processes.
Tobias will take this chapter. Secondly, elevate our business model and value proposition. And third, we will excel with our people and culture. Tobias?
Just an extra microphone here, just sat there next to you.
[inaudible], thank you, Chris. Hello, everyone. I will present to you the actions we are taking on structure and processes. Our priority here is straightforward. Make Wacker leaner, faster, more efficient. Obviously, over time, as time goes, complexity has increased with growth, new businesses, and expanding global operations. REFOCUS addresses this by streamlining structures, reorganizing processes, and improving accountability. A key element is our PACE cost and efficiency program. Program is on track. We kicked it off in Q4 last year, and in Q1 this year, we already started with the implementation of first measures, especially non-personnel measures. For the organizational restructuring, we move here step by step, and we started in Q3 2026 and expect to have all the restructuring done, completed by the end of 2027.
The teams spread over eight distinct work streams are working really hard and with great effort implementing all defined action items and all measures are to be completed in 2028. PACE targets both non-personnel and personnel costs. As things move faster on the non-personnel side, the first visible savings are already being delivered. We reduce expenditures through lower technical spending, structural savings in procurement, and tighter budgets, and we are controlling and monitoring that really very tightly on a monthly basis. For personnel costs, the main benefits will begin to materialize from 2027 onwards. In the second quarter of this year, we reached an agreement with the Works Council in Germany to reduce around 1,600 positions. This is truly a milestone achievement and sets the timeline for a stringent implementation going forward. PACE makes Wacker leaner, faster, and more efficient.
Therefore, a key pillar of PACE is simplifying how we operate and make decisions. Just an example. We are merging operating units into larger functional units and centralizing support teams to improve efficiency and accountability. Another example, we are reorganizing our entire engineering processes to align around four departments with clear roles and responsibilities and integrated functions. The goal is not just to have fewer organizational boxes. The goal is faster execution, better performance, and stronger accountability. PACE is on track. In 2026, we will achieve around EUR 200 million in savings, in gross savings, of which EUR 85 million were already saved in the first half. That means for the second half, there are EUR 115 million to save. Annual gross savings will expand to more than EUR 300 million in 2028.
As we stated before, more than 50% will remain EBITDA relevant as net savings after accounting for inflation. The structural impact of PACE is important. It lowers our break-even point and increases, again, resilience of the company. This creates additional leeway to invest in innovation, technology, and attractive markets. Because PACE is not just about cost-cutting. It is making Wacker leaner, faster, and more efficient, and thus lays the foundation for focused growth. Beyond PACE, there is obviously much more. Our advanced digital foundation enables AI scaling for greater impact. Over the past couple of years, we have built a strong digital foundation. Just as a highlight, Wacker has just one single ERP, and we are running on S/4HANA. Our digital organization has been established and is up and operating. GenAI tools and data layers have been implemented.
All this was a big effort, and now we can scale up for greater impact by implementing AI capabilities across Wacker. This is a fascinating journey to me personally and definitely for the company as a whole. With this, back to Chris.
Thanks, Tobias. While actions taken on the structure and processes help us to become leaner, faster, and more efficient, they are only one part of REFOCUS, but they are an integral and important part of REFOCUS, and I think it is also worthwhile to mention they are real. The pay savings are real, and they work. Another priority is to elevate our business model and value proposition. Now let us talk about another important ingredient of success. Talk about growth. We are coming from an environment defined by broad-based growth, especially when I look back at our 2022 CMD here at the Tate. Today, the environment is clearly different, and not all the opportunities offer the same potential. That is why we are implementing a new playbook for portfolio management with differentiated steering.
We will become more selective, much more selective about where we invest, where we innovate, and also where we allocate our resources. Now, how does the playbook look like? We have implemented four different portfolio roads to steer each business. Now, let me briefly go through these categories. Accelerate growth businesses. They have substantial upside with high innovation potential and value-based pricing for very attractive margins. Cent of sales here, we are focused on leveraging our established market positions to generate resilient cash flow. Turnaround is about 5% of sales. Here, targeted actions are required to unlock the future potential. If transformation is successful, they will move to accelerate growth and would receive additional resources. Now let us have a closer look at accelerate growth, and you can see here some of these fast-growing end markets on the slide. Our portfolio approach means more focused innovation.
We will direct resources towards markets with strong structural demand growth that aligns with our strength. You see lots of good examples here, and maybe let me focus on the high-performance electronics. AI and high-end chips are driving demand for powerful and densely packaged semiconductor devices. They run hot. They require advanced thermal management, and we partner with customers to solve these critical challenges. Our thermal interface material has improved the heat transfer, the long-term reliability, and the energy efficiency. With the massive investment in data centers, we expect to see continued structural demand growth in these applications. As you can see, there are many examples of Wacker solutions which we introduced recently. Now let's have a closer look at the optimized return category. Again, lots of good examples here. But let's focus on the ultra-high pure polysilicon.
We are the leader, and our material is critical for the highest performing semiconductors. The market is poised for strong long-term growth, and we have just expanded our etching capacity for the highest quality material. Therefore, our focus is on operational excellence, on yield improvement, and on cost. This strengthens profitability while reinforcing our technology and market leadership. As you can see, optimized return has very attractive businesses where we can unlock value without major new investments. VAE powder or power silicones for energy goods and other good data. Our segment strategies reflect individual portfolio roles. Now, starting with silicones. We provide a wide range of products from upstream standards to bespoke high-end specialties and solutions.
In silicones, 17 out of these 25 units, you can find some of the most attractive growth opportunities also allocated in this segment. We are well-positioned with our expanded asset base, which I mentioned before, with the recent additions in downstream capabilities. We will drive selective asset-light downstream expansion to capture opportunities in fast-growing markets. Polymers, on the other hand, are less complex. As you know, we serve the adhesion and coatings market from a shorter value chain, dispersions, powders, and resins, so just three portfolio units. The latter two, powders and resins, have higher differentiation potential, stronger profitability, and returns via cost and capital discipline. Biosolutions has three portfolio units: biopharma, bioingredients, and life science chemicals. Today, we are focused on commercial excellence to exploit the full potential of cutting-edge biotech data. Polysilicon, last but not least, has two portfolio units.
Our focus is on semi, and we will extend our semi leadership while maintaining the U.S. solar option for the time being. In each segment, we are pursuing specific priorities. So different actions, but one common objective: unlock the full potential. The next REFOCUS priority is excelling with our people and our culture. That's often a missed point, I would say, but it's an integral part if you want to succeed in your executing a strategy. The success of implementing our portfolio roles ultimately depends on our teams. So it's about having the right capabilities, leadership, and culture throughout the organization. As our business model evolves, the skills required to succeed also evolve. That's why we are investing in our people and make sure that we have a long-term winning teams. So different portfolio roles obviously also require different team capabilities.
Now, for the accelerate growth, we need teams with proactive business hunting mindset, coupled with disciplined execution to drive faster commercialization. To optimize return, you need rigorous performance and efficiency management skills to improve margins and return on capital. For maximize cash, you again need a different mindset. You need to embed cash and cost culture at the daily management position, where you don't talk so much about growth in that category, but you talk about how can you increase the cash generation. For turnaround, finally, we need to strengthen relationships with key customers and follow strict milestones to process the rebuild growth. My responsibility and that of the entire board is to ensure that each team has what it needs to succeed in their specific mission. We've already launched a program to build long-term winning teams.
The One Wacker Team promotes collaboration across functions, businesses, and geographies, and essentially diverse teams. Leading at Wacker has strengthened the leadership capabilities throughout the organization, and at the same time, we are investing in AI and digital skills to prepare our workforce for the future. Together, all these initiatives help build the culture and capabilities needed to deliver REFOCUS successfully. Let me briefly summarize before I hand over to Tobias. We have taken bold steps to adapt Wacker to a much more challenging market environment. We have a comprehensive program running. We have defined a holistic approach with clear strategic priorities for structure and processes, business and value proposition, and people and culture. We have implemented, and we are running the cost and efficiency program, PACE, and we are on track to save EUR 300 million annually.
Building on our success in PACE, we now ignite, if you want, the next level of selective growth with a new playbook for portfolio management and differentiated steering. Importantly, we see distinct value creation potential across all four segments. With clear portfolio roles anchored in the organization, we will drive the team spirit and the commercial success. Together, these actions are creating a leaner, faster, and a more efficient organization, which will strengthen our long-term competitiveness. We are absolutely confident that REFOCUS will unlock our full potential within our three strategic priorities. It's the foundation of our new financial ambition. Tobias.
Thanks, Chris. Let me briefly outline what I will cover over the next few slides. First, I will review our performance and how we maintained solid financials and improved resilience despite all the headwinds. I will then show how REFOCUS drives our ambitions for growth, profitability, and ROCE, and obviously also touch on current trading. That will cover where we have come from and where we intend to go. The last several years have been defined by exceptional market volatility. Post-COVID tailwinds gave way to headwinds across many customer end markets. Despite this, our chemical specialties businesses continued to grow and expanded our global leadership positions. In polysilicon, we have seen strong semi demand growth, and we grew double digit for two years, which was above market. Unfortunately, this development is not visible at first look as these winds are being offset by solar.
Here, volumes have contracted due to over capacities in China. In Biosolutions, our new mRNA competence center, which is part of the German Pandemic Preparedness Contracts program, strengthens our position in advanced medicines. Circling back to Chris's comments about products that we had shown at the last CMD in Burghausen in the poster session, we talked about our new etching line. We talked about the silicone hybrid polymers plant, our new mRNA competence center, as well as about our electronics and healthcare silicone specialties. These businesses, taken together, now generate more than EUR 500 million, more sales than a few years ago. So we have achieved strong growth in some focus areas, and our recent investments are the foundation for future growth. Despite the headwinds and the high investment period, we maintain solid financials around four key balance sheet items. First, we increased our already strong liquidity position.
That was clearly supported by strong cash flow generation and disciplined working capital management. Second, we kept net financial debt low. For this year, it will come in around EUR 500 million at the end of the year, which equates to a comfortable leverage level of below 1x EBITDA. Third, and almost forgotten, we reduced the pension deficit, a big topic a few years ago, by modernizing our pension system. We also introduced the capital option, but we also did voluntary top up, and we funded through a CTA the unfunded portion of the liabilities with EUR 250 million CTA, which developed nicely over the last four years, obviously, with the stock market. Higher discount rates were also supportive. Finally, we increased overall shareholder equity to EUR 4.2 billion despite returning EUR 1.4 billion in dividends to shareholders during that period.
Our solid financial foundation is the basis for everything we do, and it allows us to invest in selective growth while navigating also uncertain markets. Now, looking forward, our ambition is clear. A structural EBITDA margin of 15% ± 2 percentage points. We have delivered this performance before. However, our performance has fallen short of this over the past couple of years. That is why we are taking decisive, bold actions through REFOCUS. We will achieve our margin ambition by pulling three main levers. First, drive growth. We will focus our resources to drive selective specialties growth, and we will leverage our existing assets and expertise into commercial success. Second, cut cost. We will deliver annual paid cost savings of more than EUR 300 million in 2028, of which more than 50% will be retained in EBITDA.
As we talked about, we will embed a cash and cost culture as part of some portfolio units to maximize cash. Third, improve resilience. We will protect margins with our focused pricing playbook to optimize returns. This is so important in today's volatile and dynamic market environment. Taken together, these actions will allow us to consistently deliver on our structural margin ambition over this cycle. Furthermore, let me add that our ambition is valid regardless of which scenario plays out in polysilicon. REFOCUS changes how we prioritize capital allocation. Over the recent years, we have invested our global footprint, and we have invested in capabilities. That investment phase is now behind us. Those assets provide a strong foundation for future growth. Going forward, our priority is to leverage existing assets and expertise to drive commercial success.
We will keep CapEx below depreciation and in a range of EUR 300 million- EUR 400 million, of which maintenance is some EUR 200 million. Despite lower investments, we will accelerate growth by focusing resources on the most attractive opportunities. Our ambition is to get ROCE back to more than 10% as soon as possible. Get it back to more than 10%, that means above our cost of capital. We have shown this in the past, but recent performance has been well below that. The combination of progressive investment and margin decline led to insufficient capital returns, and there are three main levers to get us back on track. First, raise EBITDA through growth and cost cutting, obviously. Second, strict capital discipline with a focus on leveraging our existing assets. Third, optimize and continue to optimize working capital management.
Together, these actions will drive the nominator up and the denominator down to achieve a ROCE sustainably above 10%. Going forward, our capital allocation priorities are clear. Selective growth and maintenance of business, number one. Dividends, number two, and maintaining solid financials, number three. We will make, as we said, selective growth investments while maintaining assets to ensure safe and reliable operations. At the same time, we will leverage our already existing assets and expertise to drive commercial success. Our dividend policy is unchanged. We aim to distribute roughly 50% of net income. Number three, we will maintain solid financials with a financial leverage target of 1x EBITDA, also allowing for some flexibility. Putting it all together, our capital allocation priorities reflect our well-balanced approach to selective growth, shareholder return, and financial resilience. Sustainability remains an integral part of our strategy.
Going forward, we will realize selective growth opportunities, and we will remain on our pathway to Net Zero by 2045. Our target is to reduce our footprint and strengthen partnerships with key customers. Our pathway to Net Zero, there are three principles to it. Number one is green silicon. Number two is process transformation, and number three is switch to renewable energy. For us, sustainability is an investment, and it should also be a good business case. On our last earnings call, we highlighted that Wacker recently received L'Oréal's Energy Award in the raw materials category. By reducing CO2 emissions from silicon metal production in Norway, we reduce our financial risk and create opportunities to grow with strategic customers. So that award shows how sustainability and innovation go hand in hand. REFOCUS is a holistic approach to improve how we operate, how we compete, and how we create value.
We have defined clear strategic priorities, so three, and these three priorities reinforce and complement each other. Together, they will unlock our full potential and are the foundation for our financial ambitions. We have those on this slide. We aim to drive GDP plus growth by making selective growth investments and improving mix. We aim to raise our structural EBITDA margin to 15% ± 2 percentage points by delivering on our growth and on our cost and efficiency program. Number three, we aim to get ROCE back as soon as possible to above 10%, thus above our cost of capital. So these three targets ambitions drive all that we have in our REFOCUS set up, basically on self-help by the company. Before I hand you back to Chris, let me address current trading. Our strong performance continues in the third quarter.
Group EBITDA will likely be at the same level as in the second quarter. Chemicals see a stable to slightly better EBITDA performance. Biosolutions, roughly similar to the prior quarter. Polysilicon will be approximately EUR 40 million EBITDA in the quarter, including a special income of approximately EUR 30 million from a solar contract dissolution. But operational polysilicon performance is held back by a disappointing 232 decision. Despite this, if you look at the three quarters, the group earnings are up, driven by execution. PACE, pricing action, and strong operational performance have delivered tangible results YoY. With this, I will hand you back to Chris.
Thank you. Thank you, Tobias. Ladies and gentlemen, the next chapter for Wacker is REFOCUS. REFOCUS, as we said, is a holistic approach to improve how we operate, how we compete, and how we create value. REFOCUS is built on our three strategic priorities that reinforce one another. Our business priorities are clear. It is about profitability, it is about ROCE, and it is about selected growth in attractive markets. We have a clear plan for REFOCUS. The new playbook for portfolio management and differentiated steering has been defined and introduced and is now ready for execution. Base cost savings are in full swing in execution. For the next three years, our agenda is set. In polysilicon, we will lead the way in the next generation of semiconductors and optimize our performance by focusing on automation, technology, and yield improvement.
In Biosolutions, we will leverage our cutting-edge technologies and focus on commercial excellence and customer partnerships to fill our assets. In Polymers, we will leverage our unmatched footprint and leading application expertise and optimize to improve margins and return on capital. In Silicones, we will leverage our global footprint and excellent centers close to customers to drive selective growth. Before we open the discussion, let me leave you with one key message. Wacker enters this next phase from a position of strength. We have leading technologies, we have strong market positions, and we have high-quality assets built through years of targeted investment. The focus is now on execution. Through REFOCUS, we are concentrating on the opportunities that are within our control to improve profitability, increase returns, and accelerate value creation. We are confident that this will unlock upside in earnings and strengthen Wacker's competitiveness for the long term.
Thank you for the attention, and Tobias and I are happy now to take your questions and comments. Thank you.
Let me figure out a little bit. We've had a few technical issues with Zoom today here. So we've gone from the internet to essentially a landline solution. So what we're going to do is have the questions. I'll give you my mobile for the question, and then I'll run back and forth. You probably didn't notice it. Who would like to have the first question to me? Yes. Please go ahead and introduce yourself, and then I'll run back up to the board.
Hello, Katie Richards from Barclays, and asking on behalf of the covering analyst, Anil Shenoy. You talked us through your two scenarios for polysilicon. We'd just be interested to get you talking through the upsides in both of those scenarios. What do you think that your potential could be in a successful Section 232 environment? You also spoke about closing down the U.S. site. What kind of savings do you think you could achieve from this?
Okay. As I mentioned before Section 232 was aimed to revitalize the U.S. market for solar and polysilicon. In its current reading, it does not provide the support, which is a disappointment. Yet we keep engaged in very constructive talk with the U.S. government, and we count on the ongoing commitment from the government to support domestic poly production in the U.S. Therefore, it is too early to speculate what will be the outcome of this. We cannot, as we say more at the moment. But I made a clear statement on it. Either scenario is a semi and solar, which would be preferred from our side, or the semi-only. Both scenarios would be better than the situation of uncertainty that we have today. But the semi you mentioned, yes, there would be structural cost savings.
Too early to talk about this, because it's still open, and we cannot really say more at this stage.
Next question.
Hi, thanks. Tristan Lamotte, Deutsche Bank. I just wanted to go a little bit further on that question around Section 232. What specifically is it in Section 232 that is not incentivizing the behavior that you expected? Is it specifically the lack of protection around U.S. polysilicon? What are the kind of clauses that you look at and you think maybe that could be tweaked to make it a little bit more beneficial and have the effect that it was intended to have? Thanks.
As we said, the current reading does not really incentivize the use of domestic U.S.-made polysilicon. It just leaves something for import pricing. As you also know, there is not a big import of polysilicon actually going into the U.S. right now.
Therefore, this concept that the minimum import price itself is not incentivizing the use of U.S.-made polysilicon, and therefore we keep on in talks with the U.S. government.
Thanks. I have two questions please. First of all, on your grading page, can you give us a bit of good form for Q3, but also going to Q4, one of your biggest profit segment production. Do you have any visibility into Q4 as per every month really for the year? Second, on your Biosolutions segment, it is a very broad portfolio for a very small segment. Nevertheless, segment contracts, can you give us an indication or a hint at all the product lines that you currently are running or where you are already fixed for any outlooks? Thanks very much.
On current ratings, it gives you an update for Q3 and you are asking for Q4. You are very good. Let me start with some details on Q3. As I said, chemicals have performed nicely. We had seen the summer dip in August, but September there is a good order pattern that might also be an indication on how to look at Q4. Biosolutions moves sideways and polysilicon obviously had the disappointing effect as we talked about, and I think we cannot talk much more about it. There is no good solar demand from the ruling, obviously. Looking to the full year, obviously after three quarters and one final quarter left, we see us more in the upper half of the guidance range. We expect typical seasonality in chemicals and we see that there is no positive effect on solar.
From that perspective, that should give you a little bit of an idea how we see Q4.
I can only agree to that. We do not see a positive spin from the end markets. Our performance, especially in the Polymers division, is managing the volatility. As we described, we have a pricing playbook in place, but we have ups and downs in the raw materials just on a weekly basis, depending on what happens in the Middle East. Our teams are really managing and maneuvering through that in a very good way. But there is no end market demand uptick, and we are not seeing growth in the Polymers division.
I think maybe to add to this, in the polymers construction area, what we see now is that in many areas, the aspect of supply security becomes more important for customers, and I would say also traditionally more in the conservative regions like Europe versus Asia. That is another lever which we now see and can use also in respect to the pricing playbook. You have a question on our Biosolutions business. They have three business units. I would rather call them too complex because all of them, I mean, the biopharma is very much based on microbial CDMO activities and mRNA bioingredients is on selective ingredients by fermentation. We see it as a very clear portfolio unit here. All of these three units, also the lifescience chemicals contribute today.
At the moment, two of them are, let's call it in this turnaround status, which means we believe in the underlying growth that is reachable in these segments. Therefore, we have a very clear milestone plan to turn that around and to move into accelerated growth. From today's perspective, there is no point in questioning that. But the teams have to deliver on the milestones for the next two years.
Hi, Jatin from JPMorgan. I have a few questions. I will start with the top ones. You mentioned this REFOCUS ambition. What is the timeframe there? Is it still in line with the plan is about your 15% margin landscape that timeframe. Second, just coming back to the polysilicon Section 232 three years back about. It just seems like the whole strategy on solar is just based on hope. At what point do we go from that phase to just taking action? Because when I look at your Q3, you are actually losing customers, because that is why you got that special income when we thought we should be gaining customers. So how does anybody get a comfort that a turnaround in this business is even possible?
In your scenario of shutting or taking cost action, and I asked this question in the second quarter, I do not know if you have visibility in terms of what impact does it have on your silicon and semi rate for the silicon, because a lot of things are integrated physically in one site. So how even practical is it to turn the switch off for the solar without impacting the business?
Jatin, I just want to start with a question on the timeframe with the REFOCUS. We have it on one slide that it is 2026- 2028. Because the REFOCUS is about action, and our vision obviously is to get these at the end of the year, at end of timeframe into the corridor. But we are not giving guidance now for 2026 and 2027 and 2028 for the fifth year. REFOCUS is about self-help, about selective growth, and we mentioned that we can pursue in attractive markets with focus, with innovation, even in a challenging environment. So we have delivered it also, as we have shown in the quarter session. In the last few years, on those projects, we can show growth. And we deliver on the pace for savings in CP program. And that should bring us into that corridor.
If you do the math, if you reach 15%, and if you take depreciation, CapEx employed, and that CapEx employed will slow over time because of lower investment. Depreciation, with growth, we will have added some networking CapEx, but the denomination go down. So if we reach the 15%, we would also roughly then cross that chapter. As I said in the speech, we want to get there as quickly as possible, but there is no guidance now for any specific step.
Okay, Jatin, let me continue on the solar polysilicon questions. Well, I would not say that our strategy for solar polysilicon is based on hope. It is based on opportunities that arise from political problems. Is that the greatest thing that I love? No.
My role is to look for opportunities for the company, and shutting something down means there is less opportunity for this production side. Therefore, we keep engaged with talks, and yes, I would have loved to have a better outcome already. Yes, I would have loved the outcome already a year ago. But we often talked about politics all over the world, and it takes more time, typically, than business people do. But we are in the situation we are now because we still see that opportunity, and we keep on fighting for our opportunities. I think it would not be wise to take now a decision before a final ruling is out and say, "I am fed up, I am going to get out of everything in the solar side." So we keep that opportunity, and we work on it.
If there is clarity and certainty, I think that is important. Once there is clarity and certainty, you can be sure that we will take clear action. So it is not because we do not want to take a decision, it is more about because there still is an opportunity which we could pursue. Second part of your question was on the integrated side. So the semi-only scenario. Yes, I publicly said that in the semi-only scenario, it would not need the full setup that we have today. Now, today, we can produce at all our sites semiconductor polysilicon. Again, it is too early to decide what to do because we need a final ruling on the Section 232. But we could potentially use all the sites for semiconductor silicon. It is not a positive outcome for the incentive for protection of polysilicon into a decision now.
Yes, on the integrated side, it is probably more complicated than on a.
Michael from UBS. Three questions from my side. Chris, I think in your speech, you mentioned that maximizing cash activities are accounting for roughly 40%-45% of group sales currently. I wonder whether you can shed a bit more light on the other three, what the composition looks like these days. Second question is on one of the bullets was about focused pricing actions, which you want to use to implement. When you can give a bit more color where you think you are capable in this environment with our focused pricing actions. The third one is, and sorry for coming back on this, the Section 232, December 4 is basically the implementation date.
Because we read that by December 5, if there's no basically agreement or maybe adaptation or change in place, which is pretty unique, that we may hear more about the topic on this later.
Okay. Starting with the last question. As much as I would love to say yes, I don't know what the outcome is. Therefore, I'm not going to say on December 5, we will take a decision, but it won't be long after the 5th. I think that helps hopefully. Your question on the portfolio units. Now the accelerate growth is around 10%-15%. The optimized return is also similar to the maximized cash, around 40%, and 5% will be then the remain turnaround. Question on the pricing action. I think the key success factor with pricing action is that you have a table which is based on different customer segments and regions. Because we see a very distinct difference in talking to customers in the construction industry in China versus in Europe. Therefore, adapting it to their needs, also their needs regarding supply and security.
You always have to make a kind of a little package for them, which helps on the pricing side. Also, another example would be in China, the speed of reaction needs to be much faster. So the customer, he looks at his mobile phone and sees the raw material price goes up today for the Brent crude, and they call you and say, "I need material today, because tomorrow price will be higher." You could see you don't see that action in Europe, more longer-term, more on a weekly basis. I think the faster you can react to what the customer wants, what his needs are, the better you can also integrate it into the pricing strategy.
Thanks. That's obviously three questions as well. First, on Biosolutions. You talked about focusing on commercial excellence. If you could just explain a little bit what that means in practice. Then also, how do you think about the segment work contributes to your group targets going forward, and a little bit about the timeline there as well. The second is on your outlook for the semi business and for utilization. If you could talk a bit, expected growth rate, also maybe how the competitive landscape in China is developing. Then lastly, a quick one, just how you think about your Siltronic solution divide.
Okay. Maybe I'll just glance on the little Siltronic. So we sold some of the shares in May. I think at a very good pricing level. It was part of our strategy. We said, we want to reduce our stake in Siltronic over time. We have no rush, and we wait for the right moment. Retrospective, I would say May so far was a good moment to step down, and we are prepared to do further steps in the future if we see that the market is attractive for us. On the commercial excellence and Biosolutions. Well, let me put it this way. I think when we did also the acquisition in the field of biopharma, especially, there was very strong focus coming, driven by the pandemic, on technology and what are the new applications for this. Are we prepared?
Do we have the right technologies in place? Maybe there was not so much focus on the how to gain new projects, be more aggressive fighting for projects. It's maybe a little bit too academic approach, I would call it. That's what we understand with the perspective had to be changed. Swapped out people in the teams. We hired external people with a lot of commercial expertise. Obviously, as I said, the market got also more challenging. I still believe very much in the opportunities of mRNA, and there was recently this Moderna announcement. So there's a lot of opportunities coming up, but it is slower than expected as many times in pharma. Therefore, I think it's so important that our focus to really 100% + on commercial execution and commercial savings in this area.
All of our segments will contribute to REFOCUS, all will contribute to our financial ambitions. Thanks too for licensing. Semi growth. I think when you look back the last two years, we had double-digit growth in semi. I think quite an accomplishment as the market was more growing with the high single-digit signal. Even having a share of about 50% and then outgrowing the market for two years, I think was quite an accomplishment. Now, going forward, I could still say there is growth in the semiconductor market for the reference in maybe to a high single-digit number, which would also be the target number for us. I don't think you can ever continue to outgrow the market by 50% +. But we believe we will grow with a single to high single-digit number for the next years.
But also, don't forget, not every year will be the same. It's not always a straight line. But overall, in the next years, we will see this growth rate. But don't expect every year to be like the last two.
Competitive landscape?
Competitive landscape, well, I think you're actually an established player in the market, with OCI, with Tokuyama, with Fenwal, who are working on their quality of material like we. And I would say we know what's going on to them. I think we have a good position also keeping our share. But a big question mark would be the Chinese. And we see that the Chinese, that [inaudible] is expanding shares in China, which is also part of the five-year plan and part of the political agenda. That's probably the biggest question mark going forward. I have no questions that they will have higher shares in China, but the question is how much share will they get outside of China? And so far, comments from customers are that they are highly reluctant being dependent on Chinese material with semiconductor. But it's something we continuously have to monitor.
Just follow- up, Jatin, again. Two questions. Just on PACE, remind us, because now we are going into the headcount reduction phase, so there will be really serious cash cost for it. Can you remind us how much are the cash costs to implement all these job reductions? And just on pricing part, on power price impact that we've seen, what we saw in gas and power prices in Germany, but probably Europe. Just remind us your hedging and how you're thinking about the potential impact before we're also much more next year after, if this lasts, so.
On hedging, it is super volatile as we see also from the Brent crude, and gas prices have followed. Our hedging policy is rolling, and we have secured a large, more than 80% also for the winter season. There is a remaining exposure, but we also need to see whether those prices that you have today for the winter season would prevail or whether, yeah, we could have a windy winter, and then, I mean, the electricity price are completely different to what you could buy today. But our hedging policy going forward is always to smoothen out the peaks, and we are roughly 80%, 85% hedged for Q4 and Q1. Your first question was on PACE. Yeah, PACE. As I said, we are well on track. The runway for savings for the second half is higher.
Some of the personnel measures are now kicking in, but the majority or more will come over time 2026 and 2028 forward, because you can assume with the agreement with the Works Council, there were no forced layoffs for the voluntary program. We have smoothened out and leveraged the attrition plus additional, yeah, people leaving with severance pay. We had accrued EUR 100 million in last year for all the measures. If you are thinking about the cash out, part of that cash out will be also need to support early retirement. There will be a phasing for that cash out that we have funded with the accrual. For those leaving immediately, still in 2026, I mean, the cash out would be relevant, but as not the precise number, I would assume it to be less than EUR 50 million of 100 being cash relevant for this.
Any other-
Hi, Tristan from Deutsche Bank again. Just a few more. First one is, I am just wondering a little bit about chemicals demand and your views. If we take a step back, why do you think the demand has held up so well this year? In a tough environment. Then maybe second, because of the exceptional that you alluded to in Q3 in polysilicon, you are implying a EUR 10 million run rate. Is that a real run rate or is it a lumpy run rate that is not a real run rate that we should extrapolate? Appreciate that might be difficult to answer. Then maybe third high level, do you think you can grow in polymers and silicones next year? Thank you.
But I would say, if there is no catastrophe, another catastrophe coming, which nobody has on his mind today, that could start tomorrow, I see potential for growth in the chemicals. Without quantifying it now. And then you have the question on, the first question was on chemicals demand, how is that for this year? Well, I would not say it is that strong. I think it is kind of solid, because there is end demand, but it is not huge. There is no big impulse, I would say, in any of these segments. The only impulse you see in semiconductor, but this is mainly driven by AI and also not so much on volume. More on the pricing side for it. For polysilicon-
Yeah.
You picked it.
Yeah.
With a EUR 30 million one-off in the first quarter, in the second half, it seems just 10. That is a runway. I mean, there is a little solar volume that if you take it out and you take 10 times four, you have maybe EUR 50 million from here, just from that runway. We said that the scenarios, either with solar or without solar, and improved cost set up of our operations would improve from here. And what are the main drivers? Number one driver is continued semi growth. That is good and glad. We believe that we can grow with the market, not every year the same, but we will grow over time with the market. The second is starting from our operation situation today. You could still lose the last solar business, contributing today.
But if that scenario plays out, improve on fixed cost, which is not on that day is bad, so we would be better than today. And the other segment of it, we have more solar than today, which is nothing more from where we are today and continue with our overall spend, fifth and seventh. For sure we have to invest them, and we would not do launching sites and make the best. So I think that should give you a feeling of where we derive the confidence that we and not in the middle year, [inaudible] . But into 2024 and going forward, we can be better than we are today. And polysilicon as a segment would then contribute also to our overall ambition. I mean, it is not fully leading and then decently in this year. Why? We have PACE progress and our chemicals are performing this year.
If you look at the margins, they are already this year in the corridor. We want to have all segments in the corridor, but we are not talking about specific targets, but all segments should contribute to have a meaningful margin, adding up to the overall new margin of ambition, 15% ± 2 percentage points through the cycle. Therefore, I think some of you we talked beforehand on the 15% ± 2 percentage points , does it include solar? Does it include semi? It does include polysilicon in either scenario.
Hi. Julia from Bank of America. I have two questions. One is, can you give a bit more detail on the underlying assumptions on your margin target? So what brings you to the lower end? What is the upper end? And then where is the biggest step-up coming from? Is it from operational leverage, or poly decision or, from mix? And then the second question, outside of Biosolutions, is there any other areas where you invest in customer-facing roles or bringing in external people? For example, in silicones, when growing the downstream part of that business, do you have the right sales force in place or is this also something where you bring in external people?
Thank you.
My side was the first on the segment. We deliberately don't give segment targets as-
Yeah. All segments should contribute, and we should get into that corridor of our ambition with self-help. That's important, with PACE, cost, and efficiency, plus selective growth. Obviously, the larger segments contribute more because if you look at them at the group numbers, their weight is bigger. So tremendously important is also the performance of silicones and polymers. While Biosolutions, obviously, we want to also bring into that corridor, but as total revenues are just shy of 10% of group sales, their weight is not that big. Yeah, on your first question on the, do we have the right people and the right mindset? That is something we work both internally with programs like Leading at Wacker, which is a leadership program to train people, to get them better, or to have the right mindset and culture. But yes, there's also an external addition of people.
I think it depends a little bit on the different portfolio units. As I pointed out, for the accelerated growth, you need to be a business hunter, so to speak. At the moment, we are also evaluating people internally and then thinking about who's the best business capabilities in which portfolio unit. So you will see some shifts internally, but we will also go into the outside market, and that's what we also currently do, to hire people that can act as an initiator for changing also the culture. Because at the end of the day, the right people at the right place to achieve the goal.
May I add here, it's about the people, but it's also about how we steer the business. I think half of those portfolio units, we mentioned that we have 17. The largest segment is silicones. We have 17 there. We have four regions. We have 17 times four. So fundamentally, our complete steering model has been changed and has become much more granular because in all 17 business units, in the-
Portfolio
Portfolio units, you measure growth with actions, and those actions are now monitored in a playbook that is put on a milestone plan. So we are cascading throughout the organization a completely new steering, where we match a bit of a measure tracking on the one side with our KPIs that are relevant for that portfolio unit. So, for the accelerated growth, obviously it's about growth and margin. But for the maximizing return, it's the ROCE, and for the other, it's the cash. So we have a completely new set of how we steer the organization and steer the. And drive. I think that is a great playbook. So we have the playbook that we have on PACE, the playbook that we have on pricing, also now the playbook how we run the portfolio unit. It is about people.
Your question is absolutely valid, but it's also about how we drive the organization.
It's a cultural change, because I would say in the past, there was more a broad-based look on growth opportunities kind of everywhere. Everybody was kind of happy to see growth. Whereas now, with these different portfolio units, if you are in maximize cash, you won't get a credit for growth itself. You get a credit for cash. If growth helps you to create more cash, fine. If growth deletes your cash, you're on the wrong track, and that will be measured and clearly communicated. It's still a cultural shift at the company at the moment.
Hi, George [inaudible]. Can we, I want to talk about headwinds and tailwinds a minute and compare Silicones now to the good old days before COVID. What changed? You have a lot more people, you have a lot more assets. Your revenues are up, but they're not up that much. But why are your margins down so much? How does that tie into what you're talking about today in terms of REFOCUS on the culture and the kinds of things that you're looking for, the way that you want to manage the people, the KPIs?
First of all, let's say the headwinds that we order. We lost the standard business. We still have a small portion on it, but we also had years, 2017 and 2018, where the markets were tight, where we earned a strong margin on that, and the same was true in 2021 and 2022 when markets were tight, and we earned a margin on that. We don't see that to come back, but you can only use the margin once. We have lost that, and we don't see that overcapacity today to change meaningfully. To be honest, we also don't focus much of the attention internally on that anymore. The silicone specialties, where we duplicate the specialties and even more tailored solutions. They are really the growth driver going forward. For that, we have invested as we laid out. So we have still open capacities.
And we have, as I talked about, we have those 17 portfolio units with a clear milestone plan. We have now a measure tracking for each unit where they should accelerate and where they should focus on return on cash. Our resource allocation becomes much more granular. We are not looking at, we have four business units, and all business units, they are super proud to grow. They were fighting for resources and fighting for CapEx. They do not get that in that sense anymore. That is why we have lowered CapEx below depreciation, and we are much more selective. Now we are steering the business, also the innovation in particular, very much on, is there an attractive market? Do we have the ability to win here in that market? Only if there is a strong pitch for that, we would accelerate.
If not, we would just focus and also lower resources, focus on return. Can we still grow but improve the return by lowering resources? Or in the more extreme even, just focus on cash. I would add that to your comment of the good old time, our clear statement to everybody in the company, they will not come back. They will not come back to good old times. We need to adapt and REFOCUS is one of the answer to saying that in good old times, they grow everywhere and margins could be gathered everywhere. It is just over. We need to be much more selective. Also, I would say that global competition also increased in recent years. Therefore, you need to be faster, you need to be better, and you need to be more selective in order to achieve margins of the past.
The headcount increase is partially over addressed by PACE. A big lever to lower the break-even point in silicon, especially from the high fixed manufacturing cost, is the PACE program. I need to add that obvious also for the downstream product, for specialties, fixed costs are important. If you are running on low utilization, you do not get the absorption. Growth is vital, and we had not seen much growth, on total over the last years. We had seen growth in focus areas, but we also lost business in some dull market environments like construction. Our REFOCUS is now about self-help. Focusing the growth, being very selective, improving the leverage and utilization from our assets, and lower the cost to improve the break-even point.
Hi, Katie Richards from Barclays. I just had a few questions on Biosolutions. You had mentioned sort of the filling the capacities post-COVID has taken longer than expected. I wanted to sort of ask if that is around the contract you had with the German government for 18 million doses of lipids. I think the site was for 200 million doses. Is that the source of the issue? Going forward, are you sensing that governments are still open to contracting lipids going forward? What is your sort of long-term intentionality with that business? Sort of also speaking currently with the Moderna update, have you seen any sort of immediate client uptick for appetite in the market?
You are referring more specifically then on the biopharma business. Part of that business is what we call the Panprep, the Pandemic Preparedness deal we have with the German government, where we invested also in a brand new mRNA facility, which is kind of on standby in case of a pandemic. There is an ongoing contract, and there are ongoing discussions also for prolongation of this contract, which you of course would favor in this facility. Because the facility was built as one part is for the German government reserved, and the other part is kind of flexible for our use. Yes, and there is capacity which could be utilized. We have two other sites also in Germany where we have the microbial fermentation for proteins. There we have a high utilization.
We have also a site in Amsterdam and in the U.S. where there is still room for more projects. We are ready for gaining more projects. But I think we have to say that in the RNA world, post-COVID, part of the enthusiasm was gone, especially regarding timing. I would not say regarding the opportunities, because it is still huge, and I absolutely believe in that. But it takes longer time to be filled. Also keep in mind, BioNTech, for example, significantly reduced capacities and closed sites after the pandemic, because they had too much of facilities. We remain confident in that market. It takes more effort than expected, but we are global. Yeah.
Sebastian from Citi again, and two follow-ups on silicones, please. First one is you have this 20%+ margin target ambition, and just wondered whether that post all your PACE measures and improved mix, whether this is still a plausible scenario or whether you would really need the standard business to come back to get to those type of levels. Then second, you also just mentioned more difficult competitive landscape in silicones and in the 85% non-commodity business, how far down do you see that increased competition? In other words, how much of your business is genuinely protected by high entry barriers?
Challenge. As I said, I thought people were not giving specific segment ambitions, but we do not rule it out. Because we know that depending on the portfolio, you can earn more than 20% for silicone, but it might be a rich portfolio, and there must not be a drag somewhere in your overall number. That is why we are not specific on the segment ambition. But for sure, there is highly valuable and attractive segments. We do not set potentially any target. We have the standards. We make the best out of it. As I mentioned, having a fully integrated supply chain has benefits. This is a relevant one, especially on the midstream side. Over the time, you will transfer more and more of these 15% remaining into downstream products. That is our target.
Now, talk about the 85% downstream solutions and specialties, and you use the phrase of highly protected markets. Would be nice. But I would say, like in many other industries, I think it is today very tough to talk about highly protected markets. You could argue maybe polysilicon for semi is one. But also in silicones, I think there is competition, obviously, and there are good competitors. You just need to be faster and better and work on it every day. But there are a lot of segments and products which give you very attractive markets. As we pointed out here in SLR growth, if you talk about the electronics segment, if you talk about the automotive segment also, especially on EV vehicles, these are attractive segments also for us. But yes, they attract others as well.
Obviously, part of REFOCUS, put the resources where you see the biggest opportunities for growth, put the biggest efforts on innovation, where you see the greatest potential for the company. But overall, I would say there's still a lot of opportunity in silicones. I'm super convinced that silicone is the best plastic in the world, the most versatile from the application standpoint. There will be also new applications coming up, and we need to be fast and conquer these markets.
Thank you. Well, maybe just one last question, and then we'll be here after the event. If you have any sort of additional questions, we can think about over coffee and one last question. Okay. Then, thank you very much. I can pass over to Christian here if you'd like to.
Okay. Yeah.
Thanks.
Yeah. Well, thank you, everybody, for joining our Capital Markets Day. It was a great pleasure presenting our new way forward with REFOCUS for the next years with our financial ambitions. We appreciated the exchange on the Q&A side, and hopefully, we could answer most of it. Let's keep in touch with Scott and Jared on the Investor Relation team, obviously. We are looking forward for the next encounter, which is latest the next call, QC call on 29th, I think, in October. Yeah. All right. Thank you very much for coming. Thanks.