Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to this year's annual press conference at Covestro. My name is [audio distortion] . I am from communications, corporate communications, and I have the pleasure of taking you through our press conference today. Before we get started, I'd like to make two announcements which are of a legal nature. The first announcement is with regard to privacy. Today's event will be recorded and then it will be available to download on our website. Please remember that during the Q&A, you will be recorded. I'd also like to say that you will also have your camera on if you ask a question. The second point is forward-looking statements which will be made during this event. Please remember that we are not required to update such statements or to adapt them to future developments. That brings us to today's host, Dr.
Markus Steilemann, who is the Chief Executive Officer, and Christian Baier, who's the Chief Financial Officer at Covestro. They will be presenting last year's figures and will explain to us what issues are important and will be focused on for fiscal 2026. After that, you'll be able to ask them questions. We'll see you again for the Q&A, but now I'd like to hand over to Dr. Markus Steilemann. Go ahead, Markus, over to you.
Thank you, [audio distortion] Good morning from Leverkusen, ladies and gentlemen. I'm very happy that you are participating in our press conference today, and I look forward to the rest of the morning today with you. 2025 for us was a year of active management, and I'd like to touch on why I have couched this in these terms. The market environment in 2025 remained extremely challenging, and with resolution, we addressed that with transformation, focus, and efficiency. We are developing Covestro actively into the future, thereby advancing its future. Our identity remains intact. We are and will remain a pioneer, a front-runner in the circular economy. We are focusing without compromise on our close customer relationships. At the same time, we're doing our homework, which is operational excellence. Covestro will become leaner, more agile, and more resilient at the same time.
You can see that we've already made major inroads on this path. The Sustainable Future strategy was continued with resolve, and one strategic milestone that we passed is the partnership with XRG and their capital increase in this context that was implemented last year because it creates stability and leeway. Despite the very tense market situation, we continue to invest in modernizing our plants. We have created clear prerequisites for safety and efficiency, and we are growing in profitable market niches. At the same time, structural efficiency of the company was increased, and as we say, we left no stone unturned, and we will continue to do so. In this context, the big transformation program STRONG should be viewed, which is already achieving measurable results. My fellow board member, Christian Baier, will go into this in more detail later on.
You can see that we at Covestro are keeping our promises. Now, I'd like to ask Christian Baier to come up to the stage. Christian, please.
Thank you very much, Markus, and I, too, would like to welcome you here this morning. As mentioned already, 2025 was a very volatile year and when it comes to demand, and we see pricing pressure in most of our product categories. Nonetheless, our sales was EUR 12.9 billion. This is down by about 9% year-over-year, and this was driven primarily due to the pressure on selling prices because the volumes were pretty stable. EBITDA was at EUR 740 million, and this is below last year's figure, and this was also due to pressure on the margins. Nonetheless, as I said, we took countermeasures, and we focused on transformation and made progress there. Here, we saw a positive effect on our results as a result of our STRONG program amounting to EUR 275 million.
This is then reflected and in the EBITDA, and this was able to reduce the fall in EBITDA somewhat. Also, strategic milestones have been achieved. Our partnership with XRG has been completed, and we are focusing on the future here with regard to Covestro's future. We're also taking a look at portfolio changes, for example, acquisitions of Pontacol and Vencorex, to show once again we have control both over organic and inorganic growth, and other growth opportunities can be taken advantage of. Sustainability is and continues to be very top on our list of priorities. In 2025, we were able to reduce our CO2 emissions by 4.3%, and the share of renewables in our electricity mix was increased to 20%. Now let's take a look at this in a bit more detail when it comes to sales.
EUR 12.9 billion, that's about a reduction of about 9% in euros. This is with regard to volumes. It was only -0.9%. The reason for this is also the pressure on selling prices. That you can see that in the APAC and in North America regions, we saw that there was a growth in volumes of 1.2% and 4% respectively. In the EMEA region, we saw a reduction in volumes amounting to 5.5%. Now, if we take a look at the global volumes in industries, you'll see that in the automotive industry, we see that there's been a stable development there, especially due to a positive development in China and India. On the other hand, we had declines in North America and in Europe.
In construction, we saw low growth due in particular to infrastructure programs, and in some regions, we also see recovery in Asia and in the Middle East. In electric and E&E electronics and household appliances, we saw that this was somewhat lower than last year due to a reduction in exports from Asia to other regions. In furniture, we saw a slightly negative growth in furniture due to the real estate crisis globally and also due to high prices and increasing uncertainties in customer confidence. We still have trust in our strategy of local for local, producing in the region for incentives for demand. That's now what I'd like to talk about EBITDA, our profitability. Here you can see that there has been a clear reduction in 2025 from EUR 1.1 billion in 2024 to EUR 740 million in fiscal 2025.
What was important here is to say that our competitiveness for our plans and our cost positions as well as our innovation are all intact. This is something that shows you that the market, however, does not show any stronger growth or EBITDA development. This is driven primarily by what we refer to as the negative price delta. In other words, a reduction in selling prices was stronger than the reduction in the prices for commodities. This is due in particular to an unfavorable supply and demand situation, and this is also supported by the shift in the flow of goods as a result of U.S. tariffs. Now let's take a look at free operating cash flow. How does profitability translate into the development of our free cash flow? Here you can see the relevant reduction to -EUR 283 million.
This is something that we had in our guidance, and this is driven by the reduction in profitability in EBITDA. Here in Q1 to Q3, we had a negative development, and in Q4, we were able to show a positive development of just under EUR 100 million in free operating cash flow. This was driven by consistent working capital management as well as investment management in the appropriate way. Last year, we invested EUR 770 million, and this was also something which was within our guidance. This also stresses the fact that we are showing a great deal of discipline in inventory management and claims management. Here we can see this is in a difficult time, that our cash flow is very consistent with our stable and financial situation.
Now let's take a look at the statements, and I'd like to begin with Performance Materials. Performance Materials is our commodity-related business, and this is the one that is affected most by the price declines. In 2025, we saw a reduction in sales of 12% and a reduction of our EBITDA of 34%. The reason for this is the unfavorable supply and demand situation, and it's also driven by two specific events in the company, the fire in Dormagen in July of 2025 and also due to the closing of our PO11 plant. This is something that was announced in March of 2025. That was about EUR 100 million with regard to the effect on EBITDA in segment in Performance Materials. What are we doing here proactively here?
In particular, we are working on the cost base and also on operational efficiency with improved processes and workflows and also progress when it comes to use of artificial intelligence and digitalization in this area, which is close to production. In 2026, our plan is to have an EBITDA within the range of 2025 for Performance Materials. Now let's turn to the Solutions & Specialties segment. Here you can see that with only 5.5% reduction in sales, here we saw a stronger structural resilience because larger shares of our products are very closely related to customer-specific solutions that we offer. Here we have a somewhat higher degree of stability, and this is also with an EBITDA margin, which is about the same as it was last year at 10.3%.
When it comes to volumes, here you can see 1.2% increase, and this shows again that we have a strong position on the market and also our customer centricity. This segment, we plan a development which is within the same range as last year. It's important for us to note here that both Solutions & Specialties as well as Performance Materials, that we consider the external factors and the market. They are not working in our favor. We, as Covestro as a whole, need to take decisive actions moving forward. This is something that we did for the good of Covestro in 2025, and you can see this on the next slide. Here, you can see the development of the market. It's weak.
We have intense decisions on the market, and we can see that there have also been some headwinds there. We can also see that with our savings, we have been able to achieve EUR 275 million in savings. We were also able to increase cost efficiency, and we were also able to take advantage of opportunities. As a result, we cannot control the external results, but things that we do have control over are things that we're working on consistently, and this relates to 2026 as well, which we'd like to refer to now because there are measures that are already taking effect. Let's take a look at the outlook for next year. We are focusing on stabilization.
This relates to EBITDA, which we see within the range of 2025, and we also want to say that this is something that can mean a deviation in a single-digit percentage range. When it comes to free operating cash flow as well as ROCE over WACC, here we expect a significant increase year-over-year. Our sustainability goals continue to be worked on consistently. We are working on greenhouse gas emissions of between 3.9 and 4.5 million tons. Our partnership with XRG is a very, very important factor for stabilization as well as for positive developments in our company. Because together with our partners, a long-term partner gives us additional stability on the one hand, and we also have a great deal of leeway on the other hand. Now, let's take a look at our partnership with XRG.
This is a process which has taken several quarters. In December of 2025, we were able to close our partnership with XRG. We received all of the approvals that were required. Now to repeat, in 2024, we started with an investment agreement, then we had a public offer for Covestro, and then we had an overwhelming acceptance rate. In the meantime, XRG now has a total of more than 95% of Covestro AG's shares. As of the beginning of January, they wanted to have a squeeze-out, a delisting, and this was addressed to Covestro AG. This is something that the board and supervisory board, the executive board support. At the AGM in May of this year, we will be informing the shareholders on this, and they will be voting on this.
This is a formal process, and we are working on this with internal and external resources in order to react to this. What is important for us is that Covestro will remain an independent company. We are open, we are addressable, and we are transparent. This was important to us in the past, and that will remain important to us in the future. As far as the future is concerned, I'd now like to ask Markus Steilemann to give us some more information on that point.
Thank you, Christian. I think Christian made an impressive and very good presentation as he always does. Despite the challenging situation, the figures demonstrate that the external factors are not in our favor. Nevertheless, Covestro continues to do its homework with resolve, both in the operational business as well as in respect of the clear roadmap to the future. Perhaps you will let me outline this roadmap briefly. We're entering the next phase of our Sustainable Future strategy, and here we're focusing on three areas. As Christian quite clearly illustrated, we're talking about optimization. We're also talking about growth, which has been touched on as well, and the major transformation. Here I would like to give you a little bit more of an insight into what we're talking about here. What does optimize mean, actually? Well, for example, focusing on operational excellence and plant availability.
Specifically, we want to improve our plant availability throughout all our segments through leaner processes, resolute implementation, and we are taking everything a step forward with respect to more energy-efficient plants, and we want to streamline our portfolio even more. One thing is indispensable here. It's our customer's centricity, proximity to the customer, and that is because together with our customers, we develop special solutions that go above the sum of the parts. We also launched a digital tool for the real-time determination of CO2 impacts along the entire polyurethane value chain. It's very well-received. It helps with respect to the reporting requirements and sustainability ambitions of our customers, and it will make sure that we are better tomorrow than we are today. What are we doing specifically in the field? Now, with respect to growth, in that area. We made targeted investments in growth markets.
The task at hand here is to be sustainable and profitable as we grow. The acquisitions that were mentioned by Christian, Pontacol and Vencorex are a good example of this, but there were also investments in January 2026 in our thermoplastic polyurethane business, where an entirely new production site was opened in Zhuhai in China. This demonstrates that we're investing despite the economic headwind that we're facing, but at the same time, we are looking beyond our backyard. The Covestro products will continue to serve mega trends, because new growth markets are emerging. To mention a few, robotics or material solutions for data centers. Now we come to the very long-term project, which is the transformation of the entire group. What we're talking about here is to develop future areas. We want to shape the chemicals of the future.
Aligning ourselves with a circular economy is indispensable to this end 'cause there are two options. You can produce with low CO2 and also use fossil fuel-free commodities. Covestro supplies these materials. In Brunsbüttel, we're building the heat battery. This is an innovative storage system technology for steam from renewable energies, and the commissioning will occur in 2026. Innovations and partnerships for us are a clear symbol and a competitive advantage, and therefore it is very, very decisive to our transformation that we place our chips on digitization and artificial intelligence. By 2028, we expect a value contribution in triple-digit million EUR yields. The transformation is taking place at all levels and is in full swing, and I would therefore like to summarize it for you.
The market environment is and remains extremely challenging, and it can only be changed to a certain degree. Covestro is meeting this market environment with a very clear plan. The next phase of our strategy has been ushered in. Our priorities have been set clearly. The partnership with XRG gives us more stability and accelerating power, and our ambition is and will remain clear. That is to make Covestro more efficient, more profitable, and more sustainability in its setup. Now I would like to hand over to my colleague, Przemek, so that we can segue over into our Q&A. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much, Christian. Thank you, Markus. That brings us to the Q&A. I'd like to explain the procedure to you before we get going. If you want to ask a question, please raise your hand in Teams, and then we will call you up, and you will then have to switch on your camera and your microphone so that you can ask your question. Please remember that we will first take the questions in the German language call, and then we will move on to the questions in the English call. I'd now like to take a look at the technicians and see that the first question comes from Mr. Finke from the Süddeutsche Zeitung. Please switch on your camera and microphone. Go ahead. Thank you very much.
I would like to ask you, is this your last annual press conference that we'll be having in a virtual mode? Can you see how things will continue in the future? Will Covestro, after its delisting, still be transparent, et cetera, when it comes to information on the figures? Or is this just work in progress for right now? The second question is, what about your guidance for 2026? Or can you see when Covestro will have a profit? When will the shareholders be receiving a dividend? That's what I would be interested in hearing about the dividend. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Mr. Finke. Let me begin with your first question, Markus Steilemann will then answer the second question.
The first question is on transparency, the annual press conference. This is very important to us.
As we mentioned in our presentation, we want to communicate openly with members of the media and for the employees and the shareholders. The format that we'll have in the future after a possible delisting and what we will do this with external stakeholders, this is something that we're still working on, but you can assume that we can be approached at all times, and we will be transparent to the public with the major activities at Covestro. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Finke, for your question. The second question. It is our claim this company is to be profitable, and we also want to show financial strength once again. That is exactly what we were trying to show you in the last 20 minutes, showing you what we're doing to achieve this operational excellence.
At the same time, we want to see to it that we can have additional growth areas and transformation should not be forgotten. Technologies for the future, how we can use artificial intelligence, green energy, sustainable raw materials, so that we can be profitable and also in order to create value for our shareholders. Stakeholders, and we see that we have a great potential here, and this is our potential. We, on the board of management, want to have this for all 17,000 employees, and we stand for that, and that's what we'll continue to work on. Thank you very much.
The next question is Mr. Ben Frentorf from the Handelsblatt. Please, I see your camera is on, so please switch on your microphone, please.
Good morning. I hope you can hear me okay. I would like to ask about the economy.
We can see that there is a slight recovery of the economy ongoing now in Germany. How do you see that? Mr. Steilemann, can you feel that? Do you see that already? What about the infrastructure packages, for example? Or also in chemistry, do you see and can you recognize recovery here at the beginning of the year? We'd also like to take a look at the different regions. You talked about 2025 and China, for example. Could you give us a bit more information on that, please, for the future? The third question is tariffs. We see a new development now out there on the market over the last couple of days. What kind of an impact does that have for Covestro overall? We'd like to hear your information on that.
Good morning, Mr. Frentorf. Thank you for your questions.
I'll take the first two questions, and Christian will then answer the question on tariffs. To be very open with you, we can see very slight signs of economic development, but this is something that is not strong enough, and these signs are not in the industries which we are mainly active in. We are active in the automotive, construction industry and also furniture, electronics, et cetera, in some niche economies such as medicine. In Germany, we can say that there is no long-term trends that we can recognize right now. We would be among the first, of course, and we have heard that there are some slight signs of recovery, but we have not noticed this with our sales and volume figures. We do not see that yet.
In Germany, the situation does not show any of this so far, and this is the case for Covestro as well. Internationally, let me put it like this: We are active all over the world, where we have a very difficult situation in terms of demand, and we have a lot of overcapacity in many areas. And this is something that is distributed only to a certain extent differently. In, for example, the United States, for example, we see that this is driven by the share markets in the certain industries, technology industries, for example. If you take a look with regard to the industrial sector, then you'll see that the situation is not good. You can see that in certain industries, for example, real estate or China.
Here again, we see that there are structural crises in these sectors, and the same also applies in Europe. Here too, apart from a few individual markets and individual countries, but they're too small all in all to lead to a European recovery. Taking all into account, you can say that per sector and per region, the economic situation and the demand situation is very, very tense.
Thank you very much, Ms. Frentorf, for your question on the tariffs. I would also talk about the direct impact on Covestro and indirect impact, as you said, especially for 2025. Here, due to our local for local strategy, here we see that indirect impact from tariffs is only to a very slight extent.
We saw that we were not really focused on that, the financial impact of this, because this is something that is basically relatively slight when it has a direct impact on Covestro. What much more intense in 2025, and this is much more of a burden and also will have the effect on 2026, and that is the indirect impact of the tariffs. These result from uncertainty among all of the different partners that we work with. It's not clear what tariff will apply where. This uncertainty is something which we clearly notice. Noticed in 2026, this was a negative impact. For 2026, it seems that this will also continue to be something that leads to a high degree of volatility, which may not suffice for us to eliminate these uncertainties.
Of course, we would like to have stability here so that we can plan properly for all of our partners. This could also have a positive effect should stability then and predictability be returned. Thank you very much.
Thank you. This brings us to the next question from Mrs. Annette Becker from Börsen-Zeitung. Mrs. Becker, please go ahead, madam.
Yes. I hope you can at least hear me.
Yes, we can hear you and see you now.
Okay, great. I have some questions with respect to plant capacity utilization. You have said that there is a massive underutilization in industry, but I'd like to know what the situation is with Covestro. Mr. Steilemann, you spoke of the fact that plant availability needs to be increased. What exactly do you mean by this? I think the next topic has already been addressed. I wanted to ask you about the transformation. You said that it was a long-term process. Now, you, Mr. Baier, in September, and you, Mr. Steilemann, by May 2028, will leave the company. How do you think you can get everything, everyone on board, despite the fact that you will not remain with the company over the longer term and therefore assume responsibility over the longer term?
Now, the next question, you mentioned free cash flow per segment. Doing the math, I do not arrive at this big negative figure. Could you tell me why this is the case?
Thank you. Yes, thank you, Mrs. Becker. I'll start by answering your questions. And then with respect to staff and the switch at the helm, I think the two of us can say something, and FOCF is something that Mr. Baier will then address. Capacity utilization in the chemical industry remains at a 30 year low as of information we have available today. Since the 1990s, we haven't seen this type of situation. Without going into detail, we have very, very low plant capacity utilization, which is challenging at Covestro in certain segments.
To a certain degree, this was due to, for instance, the fire event that we had at a central power supply in one of our major sites in Germany. A partner is responsible for that, and this segues me over to what we mean by plant availability. Specifically, we want to invest, we wanna take measures, that address such outages that we may have, alone or with partners so that we can minimize the impact. In other words, we want to make the plants much more resilient, for instance, by investing in redundant structures, by conducting predictive maintenance, by optimizing operating parameters so that plant operation is secured and is stable 24/7. There is a whole series of options that we can avail ourselves of in order to make the plants constantly available.
This is in the interests not just of safety, but also a sustainable increase in profitability because plants that are stable and can run without interruption deliver more products, and then we have economies of scale. We reduce fixed costs, and we can drive up volumes. That's why we're working on this. By the way, this also applies not only to the Performance Materials segment, but of course, we have different levels of complexity there, and it does have an impact on the earnings of the specialties segment. If you can make more product, you can earn more money. This goes back to the question asked by Mr. Finke. We want to make sure that our business reaches the profitable area as quickly as possible.
Now, with respect to the transformation, which is important, with respect to the sustainability and long-term orientation of our company, we also have to look at succession processes. They have to be planned far in advance in order to ensure that strategies that may extend beyond the terms of board members, which by the way is normal, can continue to be pushed forward. That's why it is so important to ensure that you have the right successors in place early on, so that you know who is going to continue implementing the strategies. That doesn't change anything to the value, the contents, or the focal points of the strategies. The people at the helm don't really change that. You may remember, Mrs. Clausewitz, some people are told that they have a whole house of indispensable people, but that's not really true.
Now I'd like to hand over to Christian Baier. Christian, please go ahead.
Yes. Now the microphone has just been switched. You let me know, perhaps, if you can't hear me. Free operating cash flow is what you asked about. We have two effects which basically should answer your question. The sum of Performance Materials, Solutions & Specialties, and the other segment gives you the -EUR 283 million in free operating cash flow. That means that in the other segment, we have other parts of administrative and selling expenses which cannot be specifically attributed to either of the segments. It also contains the segments, for instance, in IT systems, which essentially belong to the others segment. Then we have a more technical factor that plays a role here.
In order to map the operative performance of the segments, we used standardized control parameters that we allocate to the segments. In years where the tax rate for the overall company is higher, the FOCFs of the segments are a little higher, and in other years, they're lower. These two effects lead to the addition and the sum total of free operating cash flow.
Thank you. We would now like to receive the next question. It's from Ulf Meinke from Westdeutsche Allgemeine Zeitung. Mr. Meinke, could you please activate your system?
Can you hear me?
Yes, we can hear you and see you very well.
Thank you for letting me ask the question. I would like to address the market situation. Do you also plan to cut jobs? Redundancies? Do you plan to close plants, any further plants?
With respect to your motivation, you said you would both be leaving the company. You cited Mrs. Clausetitz. Now, I would also like to know from you why you believe the time has come to leave the company? Also, I would like to know why you're leaving the company so early and you're announcing it so early because 2028 is still quite far into the future. Mrs. Becker addressed that. So why are you doing this so early? Could you perhaps also give us a summary from a personal point of view? Mr. Steilemann, at the beginning of your work here, did you think that things would come to such an end? Well, Mr. Meinke, first of all, thank you very much for your questions. You addressed the job situation and plant situation.
As I said before, we on the board of management constantly work on making sure that the overall structure is adapted to new circumstances and changes, and this is why we launched a big transformation program, as we mentioned earlier. Part of this transformation program involves time and again, looking at the plant structure to make sure that it's a good fit. Right now, we don't have any specific plans to change that, but at the same time, we have to say that it is our task to constantly monitor this, and if there's any news on this, we will communicate it in due course. What is important to note now, however, is that we, maybe unlike other companies, constantly work on making sure that we have the right headcount at the various sites and regions in which we operate.
Last year, indeed, we had a very stable headcount and it actually rose slightly. This is because we launched acquisitions. A lot is being focused on transformation and operational excellence, but we're still on course for growth, especially in those areas where we have demand and growth is possible and where we can always gain an advantage because of our customers. When we speak about transformation, and this is important, we also speak about growth, but we also talk about future orientation, artificial intelligence, and research and development. That's our ambition. We always want to strike the right balance here. I hope that that covers all the points that you raised. This brings me to the next question you asked, and I think you basically answered it yourself.
You told me you've been here with the company for a while, what would you say looking back? By saying that, you may realize why it's so important, again, against the backdrop of a sustainable company management, we are trying to figure out early on how to continue implementing the strategy successfully over the long term. Now, in 2028, I'll have been at the helm for 10 years, and I have been on the board for 13 years. During this period, I got the opportunity of following the company from the original parent company into its independence through at least an entire cycle throughout the industry, through the pandemic, through the energy crisis, through the demand crisis, and I can't stop counting all of the crises. Not a single day has passed that was boring.
It may have been a hard time, but that's what happens when you're a manager. We don't do things just because it's fun, but we do things because we can make a difference, we can change things. At some point, you have to figure out when you should start, in a structured manner to look and plan for a successor. Against this backdrop, it's always important to keep your eye on the strategic, longevity of the company, and therefore, personnel issues have to be addressed early on and vice versa. You may be familiar with this. Sometimes you have some turbulence, sometimes you have pressure. Against that backdrop, I think it is important to address these topics with farsightedness, in calm and strategically.
This is why we thought it was time to initiate this process for the benefit of the company. Here again, for the benefit of the company, we want to make sure that we act properly from a strategic point of view. That is the backdrop to all of that.
Okay, I see Mr. Frentorf, your hand is still raised. Maybe you just forgot to deactivate that feature, or do you actually have a follow-up question?
No, you're actually quite right. It still was up inadvertently, but I have another question. You were talking about the FX impact, the weakness of the dollar that led to that. How will this affect 2026 in a negative way? Will it weigh on 2026?
Thank you very much. 2026. This is something that's hard to predict in our budgets and our assumptions, of course. This is for our guidance, of course. These are amounts that we've seen based on the current exchange rate, 1.17-1.19, depending on what day you check it. There is some volatility in there. We see that we are very consistent here. If there were going to be any major changes there and in the exchange rate, this is something that we'll have to wait and see over the course of the year. Of course, in 2025, we saw a major weakening of the dollar, so this had an effect on our results.
Stability, as the name says, with regard to the US dollar, is something that would really not have much of an effect on the financial development on our side. We are confident with our current guidance as well as the assumptions with regard to the foreign exchange rates throughout all the different regions.
Thank you very much. The next question comes from Jonas Jansen from the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung. You've got your camera on already. Please go ahead.
Good morning. I hope you can hear me okay. I have another date with the telecom. I just have one question. Mr. Steilemann, did you say that triple-digit million EUR as a result of digitalization and AI? Could you explain to us what kind of effects these are going to be? Is this better capability of controlling your plants or whatever? Is this something? Does this give you a competitive edge?
Is this something that you would say that maybe somebody who, if someone passes away, for example, is this something where you could say, "Right, well, this would give me an advantage over the others?
Right. Thank you very much, Mr. Jansen. I'm glad to see that you're at the telecom and that the network seems to be stable. Thank you very much for your question. We expect in 2028 that we will have about EUR triple-digit millions in additional efficiency, and this is widely distributed, and that's what it's all about, because digitalization and AI in all of our different areas, if we have a clear-cut plan going forward, then this can be a competitive edge for us. What does that mean? It begins with market intelligence. How do you find out which countries and which customers, and where do we see the strong niches, where you can get this more quickly, where you can see what the trends are going to be? This can allow you to have an advantage as a result of AI, if you use it properly.
Secondly, how do you make these market requirements and turn them into products as quickly as possible? We have digital research. How quickly can you be able to offer something to your customers? We're talking about logistics, once again, digitalization and a technology advantage. We're talking about R&D. You know that this is my baby, this is my hobby, it's my passion. Chemical research should be at the top level. There we're making huge progress with strong international partners. We talk about production, manufacturing, sites, plant availability, efficiency, uninterrupted operations. These are things that are improved and supported by digitalization. Finance, for example, finance control, compliance, legal aspects, contracts. I could go into this for two hours with you. Everything that's possible there.
At the end of the day, if you do this properly and quickly, then you will be able to have a real competitive edge, and you can really set yourselves apart from the competitors. This is what the board of management is standing up for. That is what is going to bring our company forward. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you very much. I'd like to take a look at the German language call to see if there are any additional questions before we turn to the colleagues in the English call. Let me just wait just a second to see if there are any questions in the German call before we switch to the English call. That does not seem to be the case. Now I'd like to switch over to the English language call, and I see that there is a question from Sebastien Ash from the Financial Times. Go ahead.
Hi. I hope you can hear me all right. I just had a question about the cost of Europe's emissions trading scheme for you. Could you give us an estimate perhaps for how much that is costing you, whether you're paying for new permits? Also, the head of european chemical association, who's also the CEO of BASF, recently described the system as obsolete. I was wondering if we could get your thoughts on how you think it is working and whether it's fit for purpose.
Thanks, Sebastian. Very good morning from my side as well. If you look at the European emissions trading scheme, ETS and certificate trading system, important is that over the last 30 years, the system has done a great job. This has to be first and foremost being acknowledged. It has done a great job for two reasons. Number one is the CO₂ price development was reasonable for the industry to invest at reasonable cost and still stay competitive. That's number one. That was enabled through a so-called free allocation mechanism. That means there was a very clear understanding, if we do it too fast, the system breaks. If we do nothing, we're not achieving the target. That balance was absolutely key for a successful system.
That view, obviously, in recent discussions by the European Union and the respective, let's say, commissions, has changed. They wanted to, let's say, significantly increase the speed. With that, a significant risk of incredibly high prices on very short notice would have lowered the competitiveness of the industry, and at the same time, unreasonable data sources for so-called benchmarks, which define what's the next level of CO2 emission reduction that we need to achieve. All of this does not do the, in principle, successful system any good. That's why you have seen a broad spectrum of responses to it, from, "We don't want it at all, so yes, let's just scrap it," to, "Hey, if you change something, be very careful." I'm more of this, if you change something, be very careful and stay, let's say, within economically feasible borders.
That is exactly what the current situation is. For now, we could live, obviously, with the, let's say, scheme and also with the associated costs because they were so far kind of reasonable. However, I have to be very clear. Large corporations sometimes have less difficulties. If you go to small and mid-sized companies, they suffer a lot. They really suffer a lot from the system, and it is another weight on their shoulders, which is not helping them to stay internationally competitive. That is exactly what you're seeing, companies, and particularly small companies, cease business, and they're not going to come back. That's a real structural issue that we're currently having. All in, we so far could somewhat live with the system. We are absolutely against the radical changes that are currently planned by some people in Europe.
At the same time, we also fundamentally support that we develop that system, let's say, in the next phase, to still economically feasible system.
Thank you.
I'd like to take a look at both calls and see if there are any more questions. I don't see any more questions.
Yeah, I see, got a Paul Becker from
Oh, it looks like Mrs. Becker has her hand up. Go ahead, Mrs. Becker. We can't hear you, Mrs. Becker. My mic is on? Okay, here we go. I'd like to ask something on the last point. You say that radical changes. Well, as far as I know, this whole story begins as of 2026, up until I don't know when. When will this be down to zero? This was homework for last year. This is something that had been planned for many years.
Now industry said, "Well, it's going to happen." I think that this is a bit difficult because you yourself say, this is an issue, but when we talk about the change in the phase, if I stretch it out longer, I really don't understand why industry is so much up in arms here. That's nice that you show us your impression, but the facts are somewhat different. I've been working on this for quite a number of years now in different functions. The facts are clear. Announcements that were made have been very critical, have been dealt with critically behind the scenes, and it's been made very clear for many years now that industry, with this plan process, will also suffer from unfavorable competitive situation.
If these assumptions do prove true, then the German industry alone would have EUR 200 million in addition for these certificates. Individual companies, large German companies, for example, have also carried out clear calculations. As of the 2030s, more than EUR 1 billion would be spent on purchasing these certificates. This is certainly something where you cannot turn this into a business case and say that, "Okay, let's invest in to this extent," because investments required to achieve these savings would certainly be higher than the reduction in certificate costs. Must not forget another thing. All around us, we have systems with costs, and the German chemical industry is still involved in international competition, not just German or European competition. If you like, the industries will continue to die out in Germany.
The second point is, and this is something that's not been discussed because it was not present, and this is to say that they have made the requirements even more strict with regard to CO2. Here, if the plant is not really able to exist in practical terms, exactly in technical centers or only on laboratory scales. Here we're being compared with something which, in fact, does not really exist in a large industrial scale. Both factors would mean that the system would involve much too high costs and that our competitiveness would be at risk, and this would also accelerate industrial dying out of small and medium-sized companies. Thank you very much. Now, I'd like to take a look at the call. I see that there's another question from Andrew Wall from the chemical industry.
Andrew, turn on your camera. Andrew, can you hear us? We still don't see you and cannot hear you right now.
Hi. Oh, is it my turn? Thanks.
Yes.
I've got a couple of questions. The first one is on the timing of any changes in cost savings or in the polyether and MDI area. How are you gonna approach that? The reason why I ask is there could be some potentially big changes in ownership in EU and Europe, you know, including some of your American peers. You've got small, non-integrated players with multiple steps in MDI that must be finding it even more difficult than the big players. I guess how are you approaching these cost savings when the market situation or the production situation, ownership situation could change so much? That's the first question.
The second question is, sorry if you've covered this, I missed the beginning, but I think the idea was under XRG for that Covestro would be the base of a platform in chemicals. I'm just wondering how that would work. XRG has a bigger big M&A team, for instance. I mean, would they drive that or would what would be the parameters of such a platform? Would it be able to hold very different businesses which wouldn't necessarily be integrated into your chains. Thank you.
Thank you. Yeah, Andrew, thanks, and good to see you again. This has been a while since we met in London. On the cost savings, our strategy is clear. We wanna make sure that we are among the cost leaders in the industry, no matter what. That means at least being in the first quartile of the respective, let's say, assets that you have in any given region. That is how we stay competitive. That is how we make sure we have available and competitive products, standardized products for our customers available at any given point in time. Highly profitable, highly available, safe assets. That is how we serve the respective regions, as we said, local for local. We are observing, let's say, also the movements.
Please also understand that we're not in a position to comment any movements, changes in ownerships or competitiveness, let's say, of other players and their assets.
Andrew Wall, on your question with respect to Covestro in the context of XRG. We are, first of all, very pleased with XRG as our majority owner, currently owning above 95% and now embarking on the delisting and squeeze-out process, which might lead to the situation that they would be the sole shareholder on that side. We cannot comment on the XRG strategy, which is certainly very broad, also beyond the chemicals vertical, but we can comment on Covestro, and we can comment on the support that we do have from our now majority owner and throughout the whole transaction on the Sustainable Future strategy of Covestro. Next to the organic growth, which certainly throughout the cycle is requiring relevant funding, we do feel very strong support, continuous support, in providing that to Covestro.
We also see on the perspective of inorganic topics certainly support from our owner's perspective. That is, as you have seen in the last year, we have done 2 acquisitions in that perspective, and we will see how we will be acting in the future in that context. We can comment on Covestro, we can comment on XRG being supportive on that, and beyond that's not our realm. Thank you.
Thank you. Bye-bye.
I see another question from Mr. Frentorf. Go ahead. Thank you for letting me take the floor once again. What about the energy costs? Could you give us an information on that? Are the costs higher than in the U.S., for example, gas and electricity? Also a question of any compromise there. What are your assumptions for the future development of energy costs? Well, Mr. Frentorf, thank you very much, and thank you for saving the best question for the end, because this is very difficult. Of course, we can take a look at the cost for energy in Germany. They continue to be very high, also compared to other European countries. It's not a question of generation cost. This is often confused in the discussions that are held on this.
It's a question of the net costs after all of the additional costs are added, tax, grid fees, et cetera, and also any potential subsidies, rebates, which we then pay in the final analysis. If you add all of this up, then you can say that for us, in our company, the energy costs in Europe are still very, very high compared, in particular, to the United States, but also compared to locations such as China. This needs to be made clear. That's a net effect at the end of the day. The second topic is that we also have energy-intensive operations, and this is also the case here in Germany and in Europe, which means that this is a twofold exposure, the highest prices and also the highest energy demand.
If you calculate this just roughly, 60%-65% of our energy costs are here in Europe compared to other regions, and the productive output is only about 40%. You can see this is all out of proportion. Then when it comes to the development of energy costs, that's difficult. I read again and again here a lot about this. There are people who say that due to the increasing offer of liquefied gas, which we depend on in Germany, that these prices will continue to fall. Of course, there is a lower limit as well, and that means that certain costs in the United States and transport costs and losses that you have. You have to say that there is a certain lower limit.
Of course, it could continue to fall significantly, also seasonally, but we won't see prices that we saw back in 2016 or 2017. That's where we had pipeline gas, and this is something that will not return. Germany will remain, compared to all of the others, we will remain a country where we have somewhat higher prices for gas and for energy. This is something where we can do business with, but the discussion is often not complete. If they say that if the electricity price is good, then everything is good. In Germany, we have many other factors that have to be dealt with as well. To sum this up, it's also the question of productivity. Germany, the productivity is difficult here, and I don't want to be involved in such discussions as more work or changing the system, for example.
That's a totally different question. The important topic here is the question of demand, productivity costs, and yes, of course, productivity, and of course, the overall costs and energy costs do play a role as well. As I said, Germany really needs a structural reform. Thank you very much. Now, taking a look at the clock, I think it's basically right on time. I'd like to thank you all for coming.
Thank you for your attention. If you have any follow-up questions, then of course the press team is available for you. Apart from that, I would like to bid you all farewell and conclude today's press conference. Thank you very much and have a wonderful day.