Earnings Call: Q2 2021

Aug 12, 2021

Hello here from the headquarter in Munich, and a warm welcome to everybody joining our earnings call for the 1st 6 months of this year. I'm here with our Vice President, Finance, Florian Winkel, who will give you some more color on our numbers. But let me start and jump straight to the highlights of the first half year. The headlines here are very strong performance of our Existing portfolio companies, a very strong deal pipeline and deal activities in the 1st 6 months so far and a very positive outlook based on these two first bullet points I've just mentioned. The total group consolidated revenue went up slightly compared to the 1st 6 months in 2020. And given that some companies like GoTel, With Stifel, several different entities of Office Depot, Metz and Bertram were still contributing to their revenue in the 1st 6 months of 2020. This is quite a nice outcome and this is also then reflected in the annualized numbers where we can see EUR 2.7 EUR 36,000,000,000 turnover, which is reflecting the deal activities and the last couple of months. The main number here I would like to drive your attention to is the operating EBITDA In the 1st 6 months, which went up by 63 percentage points compared to the 1st 6 months in 2020 to now EUR 122,400,000 and this is mainly back on the back of our newly Acquired portfolio companies like Centia, GKN, Natus and DistroLEC, they were all acquired back in 2020 and are therefore still in the improvement phases. But also some of the companies which are with us already since quite a while like VAG or Rivos, they are contributing quite nicely and above our average to this strong outcome. So in total, even the strong Q1 numbers, we can see an even stronger operating EBITDA and then operating results in the Q2 and therefore, a very strong outcome for the 1st 6 months. This is then also reflected in the net asset value, which went up by 14 percentage points to €1,140,000 compared to the full year 2020, which means by end of 2020. And if you would just take The portfolio companies, the net asset value of the portfolio companies, then the increase would be even higher by 26 percentage points. But as we do have this segment Others, we are the noncash generating units and cash is included as well. So therefore, this is a little bit diluted based on the, for example, dividend payment, which means less cash. Therefore, the overall outcome is a 14 percentage points increase, which is an absolutely tremendous success for us. The business the pipeline on the transaction side, that's based on already, I will talk about in more detail in a minute. We have seen 7 transactions so far. We have, as you might know, have been a little bit more picky last year and really were hunting for the Gitronics, Solidosent and other similar companies of the future of tomorrow and not necessarily just to increase our revenue. So really for the real non core assets of bigger enterprises and not only to increase our revenue. I think this is what we what is paying off now, as we can see in the strong numbers for the 1st 6 months. I would like Now to hand over to Florian, who will lead you through the numbers in more detail. Thank you, Matthias, and warm welcome also from my side to our earnings call Today, for the 1st 6 months of 2021. We came out with our half year figures this morning. So let's start now and have a look at the numbers beginning on Page number 5. So total consolidated revenues came in with almost EUR 1,700,000,000, So approximately the same number as for half year twenty twenty, although we sold some of our portfolio companies back in 2020, as Matthias already mentioned. On an annualized basis, the revenues from continued operations end up at EUR 2,700,000,000 related to EUR 2,000,000,000 in 2020. This is mainly related to the acquisitions we made within the second half year of 2020 as well as our newly acquired portfolio companies within the 1st 6 months of this year. In this context, I would like to point out that we already regrouped our portfolio company Office Depot Europe To discontinued operations as of the June 30. As it was stated also in our press release this morning, As part of the strategic decisions to consolidate the obviously poor businesses, amongst other things, negotiations Are currently being conducted with some investors to sell the remaining activities of the company. So that is the reason why we reclassified now obviously for Europe to discontinued operations. And as a result, the annualized revenue from continued operations for both, so 2020 2021, It's now lower than what was already stated in our Q1 press release because at that point of time, Office Depot was shown in our continued operations. So the combined group is down to EUR 124,000,000 After EUR 258,000,000 in the previous year, almost exclusively based on the lower bargain purchase in the last six As always, we have 3 different sources of earnings I would like to present to you. A bargain purchase is shown in our P and L when the purchase price we paid for a company is lower than the net assets or the equity we acquired. So with regard to the acquisitions we had in the first half year, so we had on Acquisition of Autore Store, Movement Group and GSP Gerusbau as well as our new platform, Investmenthooper, Just a small bargain purchase of EUR 600,000 has been booked so far. Almost all of these purchase price allocations we have to perform under IFRS 3 and not audited yet. But most of the acquisitions I mentioned will end up with a goodwill also after the audit. Last year number was €145,000,000 And as mentioned before, this Also the main reason for the decrease in total EBITDA. Maybe one remark in this context. The closing of the Belgium based North Cutrol Precision Tubing, this deal is planned for the upcoming weeks. And for this transaction, We are expecting bargain purchase as well. The restructuring expenses Went down from EUR 44,000,000 to EUR 37,000,000 and reflect again the good operational performances Of our portfolio within the 1st 6 months of this year, the gains on exits went down from EUR 80 €2,000,000 to approximately €38,000,000 Last year, especially the Gotel sales on our hotel chain in Germany was included in this line. So we finally end up with a very good operational performanceEBITDA of EUR 100 EUR 22,400,000 That means an increase of 36% compared to the last half year operational result. Moreover, we now already reached 75% of our 2019 2020 operating EBITDA number. So if we should be able to continue this performance in the second half of this year, It looks like an extremely good year for our business. This result once again underlines the statement we made Back in May when we had our conference call for the Q1 figures, so our subsidiaries have came through the pandemic very well. And even if I repeat myself now, although the total consolidated revenues didn't increase compared to the first half year of twenty twenty, This gives evidence that we made the right decisions last year, especially in terms of all the companies that were offered to us during the COVID-nineteen pandemic. And in general, our main goal is still not to increase sales numbers or to focus on revenues only and by as many companies as possible, but rather to look for the right targets with room for operational improvement. Only this approach will lead to shareholder value from our perspective. The decline in cash can be traced back Two number of factors. First of all, we had our dividend payment of almost €29,000,000 back in May. Additionally, as mentioned before, we acquired some new companies. So one platform deal, 3 add on acquisitions so far and 2 co investments in the first half year. And moreover, if you look at our balance sheet as well as our cash flow statement, we have a huge decrease in our financial liabilities. So these repayments also have a big impact. And we end up with approximately euros 272,000,000 in cash as of June 30. Thereof, at that point in time, Almost 30%, so approximately EUR 80,000,000 is free holding cash. Finally, The equity ratio went up to 23.1 percent from 21.3% at year end 2020. And this increase already included the dividend payment I just mentioned we made back in May amounting to 28,700,000. So next slide, number 6, you see the cut through our portfolio. In terms of total consolidated revenue as well as our operating EBITDA by the 3 categories, so segment, Stage of the portfolio status and by vintage. The main messages here from my side, Operating EBITDA margin of our segments, Services and Solutions, as well as Industrial Production, almost reached 10% each, While the Retail and Consumer products achieved almost 7%, so very good performance. And Yes, we still have significant exposure in Retail and Consumer. But as we already stated in our earlier conference calls, they are not Only losers, but also winners of the pandemic in the sectors. So for instance, our UK home shopping retailer, IDA Shopping or Sylvan, our do it yourself retail chain in Denmark. When we come to revenue and EBITDA by portfolio status as well as by vintage, You see that almost 50% and more is coming from the companies in the improvement stage as well as from companies with a holding period of more than 3 years, respectively. This is a confirmation or proof Of what one would expect that the oldest bulk of our portfolio is in charge of the majority of our EBITDA Distribution. And by the way, this is again an evidence that the Aurelius business model works. It is also worth mentioning that our recent acquisitions, so companies And the growth sector andor with a holding period of less than 18 months have a material impact of our EBITDA. Okay. Then I would like to move on to Slide 7, the net asset value calculation of our portfolio. As Materials already stated compared to year end 2020, The total NAV went up to EUR 1,145,000,000, a significant increase of 14% compared to last year. This increase affects all operating segments And sectors, while the segment Other shows a decrease, the valuation leads To NAV per share of €38.46 after €33. EUR 67 €8.67 €2020. And with regard to this NAV per share, You have to keep in mind that we still have more than €1,000,000 in treasury shares as stated below the table. So on the next slide, number 8, you'll find a detailed analysis regarding the different sectors Of the NAB, this page was shown in the conference call for our Q1 numbers in May for the first time And is one more step of our transparency initiative. So to give you a bit more color with regard to the different sectors. In Industrial Production, we had a material increase of 36 Percent, so roughly from EUR 343,000,000 up to EUR468,000,000. This is related to different topics. First of all, we did the first fair value valuation Of our portfolio company called GKN Wheels and Structures, so our manufacturer of highway wheels. 2Q1, the valuation of GKN based on the purchase price we paid. And at half year, we now performed the 1st VCF valuation this portfolio company. Besides the variation of GKN, we have a very good operational performance Of last year acquisition, Centia, with its divisions of mineral Fiber, ceiling tiles and grid systems that we bought from Knauf International back in 2020. In addition to SENTIA, we continuously have a positive development of VAG, our supplier of water wells For water infrastructure, with production facilities in several countries all around the world. Moreover, the stock price of our listed portfolio company, Handwjerg, went up compared to year end 2020. And finally, Huppe, our new platform acquisition And one of Europe's leading manufacturers of shower equipment and bathroom and SSOAS Is included for the first time, yes. Despite the very good development in the sector, there's, yes, still room for improvement Because, for instance, the valuation of SIM aircraft seating, our manufacturer of aircraft seats, is still very low after they filed for administration last year. In our 2nd sector, Retail and Consumer Products, we also have an 11% increase from EUR 345,000,000 up to EUR 384,000,000. This is due to, again, a very strong operational performances of Nelis and Distrolet in the second quarter. Niedis, our wholesaler of entertainment, electronics and household appliances and Distrolet, a multichannel retail enterprise, We're bought from the Swiss listed Debtbilla Group also back in 2020. Furthermore, the new Add on Acquisition Movement Group and add on of the Danish Connexus Trade Group is shown at purchase price Within the segment and the 3rd topic I would also highlight is in general an overall Positive retail market outlook due to the progress we have in terms of vaccinations and declining corona And finally, we have our last operating sector, so Services and Solutions. There we have an increase of approximately 41%, so up to EUR 150,000,000 in comparison to EUR 82,000,000 at year end. This increase is coming from a strong operational performance of especially of REVO's fleet solutions, so our fleet operator and management service provider in the UK. But also 2 of our 21 add on acquisitions, mainly GSP Gerspau, an add on of BPG Building Group located in Berlin and Auto Restore, an additional add on of the previous mentioned repo It are part of this development. For the segment Other, you see a decrease of Roughly EUR 58,000,000 compared to year end. This number includes the dividend payment Of EUR 28,700,000 in the second quarter as well as the purchase prices we paid for our Fixed acquisitions this year. So as mentioned before, the 1 platform dealhooper, the 3 acquisitions as well as the 2 co investments we made with the fund. I guess this is well known, but nevertheless worth mentioning, the valuation of the Sector Other consists of the cash of the listed Aurelius Equity Opportunities and the non operating holding companies. Additionally, the treasury shares of Aurelio's equity opportunities are included as well as our brand company. And finally, the nominal amount of our Nordic bond is deducted in this segment. And lastly, we have our complete new line item in the NAV table, our co investments. Together with the newly launched Aurelius European Opportunities Forefront, we co invest in the European Midmarket. But yes, Matthias will go into this a bit more in detail later on, I guess, Page number 10. So the number of EUR 3,300,000 listed in the table on Slide number 7 shows our Coal equity funding only. There's also debt funding for the coal investment as well as earnouts, but both of them are not shown. And please mind that the core investments include here will be shown at fair value At this year end, for the first time, now it's only the purchase price. So now let's move on To the last page slide with numbers, Page number 9. This table presents the NAV by vintage and shows that the largest spike of the NAV is resulting From the oldest part of our portfolio, so companies that have been acquired for more than 3 years ago. And this part reflects approximately 40% of the total NAV. Furthermore, some more informations about the NAB calculations are stated here, but I guess all of them or most of them were known. So the NAB still based on a DCF model, and we used actuals as of June 30, including the budgets, respectively, the forecasts of the portfolio companies till year end 2023. We still assumed a conservative growth rate of 0.5%, and we have WACC of 10.3% in average. This WACC is Lower than for year end. At this point in time, it was approximately 10.9%. But the WACC still includes a risk premium for a lot of our portfolio companies. Moreover, for example, in comparison to year end 2019, We still have an increase of 2% in the WACC. So now it's still 2% more in the WACC Then in average, then at year end 2019. And therefore, there's also still a lot of potential in our NAB Just from a WACC perspective. So now before I hand over back to Matthias again, maybe one last remark From my side, as already stated in our earnings call in May, we will, beginning from Q3, Publish a full set of financial figures, including a balance sheet and profit and loss at each quarter end. So this Set of numbers will replace our press releases as our new Q1 and Q3 reportings. So yes, one more or one additional step in terms of more transparency and due on November 11 for the first time. So thanks a lot from my side. And Matthias, please go ahead with some more information about the investment focus and the transactions that already took place this year. Thank you, Florian. Yes, before I will talk about So then the outlook for the upcoming months, let me briefly remind you on our enlarged investment focus and outline again our enlarged investment focus on Page 10. So besides the first two pillars platform and add ons, we are more than pleased that we have now the possibility also to co invest in bigger fields together with the Aurelioz European Opportunities 4 Fund. All three pillars have in common and there is one big Records for all the 3 pillars is strong operational involvement needed. So this comes into play when our task force run about 100 colleagues, operational, people on the ground supporting the portfolio companies, especially at the beginning when it is a carport situation or a special situation where a lot of additional manpower is needed on the ground. This is when our task force comes into play, and this is the bracket for all these 3 pillars. The platform investments, pretty much the same sweet spot than we had in our history already, focusing on corporate carve outs Special situations, ticket equity ticket around up to €10,000,000 We have the add on acquisitions as a second below where we are focusing on accelerating the transformation and the growth of our existing portfolio companies by bolting on different other targets to strengthen the existing portfolio companies. And the 3rd below is, as just mentioned before already, is the co investment, where we invest in Portfolio companies together with the fund equity tickets here are up to EUR 100,000,000 and the same sweet spot when it comes to the special situation and the corporate capital structure. Let me talk first about the 1st below the platform acquisitions, 2 of them so far this year. The first one is Huppe, manufacturer of shower enclosures, shower trays and bathroom accessories with 2 production sites in Germany and Turkey. This is a very typical Aurelius blueprint case and transaction. We are talking here around about €70,000,000 in size, 500 employees. It's an healthy underlying market and then healthy core of this business, But it has nevertheless significant upside in the profitability when we will take this to a stand alone company as it was not core of Moscow of this bigger enterprise for quite a while. And therefore, there is still some profitability left on the table. And in addition, it's a very fragmented market with a lot of local players who are focused on local markets only. And therefore, this gives us quite a nice platform possibility to add on different targets when it comes from a geographical point of view, but also when it comes to adding on maybe different other products and services to and the upcoming years, since this normally is when we have a look on our most successful portfolio companies in the past. Add on acquisition was always a very important lever. And so this is why we think this is a really nice stuff for investments. The second transaction was Good Hydro Precision Tubing, this is where this deal we signed beginning of July this year, is not closed yet. We Back to closing to be done in the upcoming days. This company has been acquired from the ROC Futur and I will talk about this and more detail in a minute. On Page 12, the second pillar of our investment focus, add on acquisitions. The first one was for our portfolio company, Codexis Trade, with MVMT. MVMT is a company of around about EUR 20,000,000 revenues, Swedish sales, Marketing and distribution company for fast moving consumer goods, pretty much a perfect fit for Connexus Trade, highly synergetic add on acquisition, Not the first one, and we have a nicely filled pipeline for Connexus. And hopefully, therefore, we'll see some more of similar add ons in the near future. This is also or this also accounts for BPG, our Building Partners Group. They have done some on acquisitions under the ownership of Aurelius in the past already as well. And just recently in March this year, have added Another business, GSB, Gerusbaugh, so it's car folding business based in Germany, €8,000,000 in revenues and 50 employees. And the third one is for our portfolio company, Rebus Fleet Solutions in the UK. They have acquired Autorestore, EUR 12,000,000 in size revenue wise. And they are providing mobile accident body repair services and operating a fleet of over 130 mobile repair vans in the UK. This is where we Do see more and more activities. We are talking here about smaller companies. Some of them are struggling as The support measures, the governmental support schemes and measures in different legal restrictions in countries are coming to an end And postponed payments like tax payments, for example, are leading to some difficulties for these companies. We are talking about ramping up the business again, which normally means you need some kind of working capital. And this is where we do see a lot of opportunities for our existing portfolio companies to add on highly synergistic smaller companies. And on Page 13, the 3rd pillar, The newly established co investment strategy together with Aurelius Fund 4, the first acquisition we have done under this scheme is Advanced Power Solutions, how it is now called. This is the consumer battery business from Panasonic in Europe, Three locations with the headquarter in Belgium, euros 230,000,000 revenue, euros 900,000,000 in Blue East And pretty much the same than what I've mentioned before for Huppe Blueprint case, how complex cross border divestment can be handled. And I think this is why Aurelius is the number one for carve outs from bigger enterprises, and this is why Panasonic did finally choose for Aurelius as the buyer of this Advanced Power Solutions business. The second one is SSE, providing mechanical, electrical, rail, street and lighting engineering services to install and maintain key infrastructure in the UK and in Ireland. We acquired this business from SSE. It's GBP 320,000,000 in revenue, talking here about GBP 1900 employees. And again, we do see a lot of potential here in taking this company to a stand alone basis. It's about How do they're going to market. It's about, 1st of all, it's becoming core for us. It's a core business for us. And therefore, we have identified a lot of different levers how to take this company to the next level and increase profitability in a sustainable way. On the exit side, needless to say, not a big surprise that so far, corona pandemic was not necessarily the right moment to exit portfolio companies without any need. And therefore, we would have diluted maybe some of the shareholder value. We might see some smaller exits in the upcoming months and then some bigger ones from 2022 onwards again. So therefore, not a big surprise that we haven't focused too much on exiting companies. We have been approached for our portfolio of companies. But we think when there are some more months of current rating, unadjusted current ratings, then it's the right moment to ask for the right multiplier for our really double 100 successful business. So therefore, we have only seen Office Tepo Europe have sold its Italian business to Grenoule, a French strategic in March of this year. Let me talk about one company we haven't touched base on as It was just signed in early of July, a little bit more in detail. This is Norsk Hydro Precision Tubing, €50,000,000 in revenue, 200 employees at 1 production site in Belgium. They are producing tubes for industrial products, Heating, ventilation and air conditioning based in Belgium, as I mentioned before, the production side and are servicing So customers in 30 countries with the main focus on Western Europe, main markets here are Germany, France, Poland and the United Kingdom, UK. And similar criteria than what I've or similar description what I've done before for Huppe. It's a really healthy growing underlying market. The company itself has a long standing reputation for high quality products and therefore a high customer satisfaction over several years already. And it's Besides that it is with €50,000,000 revenue in size, quite decent in size, it's a nice platform again, a very fragmented market, a lot of local Players, also a lot of smaller players in different niche markets of this industry. And therefore, we do think this is a nice opportunity besides the stand alone upside and the different levers to increase the profitability on a stand alone basis to also take this as a platform and do some nice add on acquisitions here for this company. This brings me to the current status of our portfolio. What we do see here is a very well balanced portfolio by industry, by geography, but also in size, Especially what Flora mentioned before already is that we can see also the companies which have been newly acquired, which means in the last couple of years, And they are still in the improvement phases. They are contributing quite nicely to the overall operating EBITDA, which we can see on the right hand side. So therefore, a nicely balanced portfolio. And as you might know, describe on the x axis, we can see the year when this company has been acquired. And then on the y axis, We do 3 different stages of maturity, improvement, optimization and growth phases. And so typically, the companies which are in the growth phases already and therefore the most profitable ones, but also contributing to the net asset value above average, these are the companies where we typically start thinking about an exit sooner than later. So overall, very pleased with the overall development of our portfolio, very pleased that our strategy that we that also newly acquired Companies or the companies we are acquiring, they have need to have a decent level of profitability. This is paying off. And therefore, I'm quite optimistic when it comes to the upcoming months of the operating performance of our portfolio of companies. This brings me to the end of our presentation. Again, very pleased with the really strong numbers. I think what I've outlined before that we were a little bit more picky last year when it did come to doing transactions, really focusing on the real non core units of bigger enterprises and not so much only on businesses which might have had some Has issues prior to the COVID crisis already. So we are looking for the Gitronic, Solidos and SAC COB of tomorrow and not only growth in revenue, And this is something which has paid off. We have a tremendous increase in our operating EBITDA. And I think, therefore, This is the evidence that the strategy the decision to go for this strategy was the right one. We do see a lot of opportunities in all the three Different pillars I've mentioned in different areas in the platform investments and the add ons and also for the co investments. We have a nicely filled pipeline. We do think that The really strong ones when it comes to transactions are ahead of us. We haven't seen them yet. I think we since February, March this year, we can see that many of the bigger prices are picking up these topics again, where when during the corona crisis, they had to more focus on their core business and make sure that this core business will pay sales through the stormy COVID water in a steady way. They are now coming back and like to divest some of their non core Therefore, we think we are well positioned in all these three areas. And the last topic, of course, On the top of our agenda is to focus on our Capital Markets Communication to improve our transparency, talk about ESG on a daily basis. And so therefore, we will not rest in bringing up new ideas and implement new measures to increase that Transparency, like Florian mentioned before, therefore, we'll also beginning from Q3 onwards publish the complete financial figures, which hopefully will give you all some more comfort and will outline again the positive development in our portfolio and therefore of Aurelius as a company. Thank you very much for listening and we'd like to open up for questions. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin our question and answer session. And the first question is from Gerhard O'Gorman, Rembrandt. Your line is now open. Please go ahead. Yes, good afternoon. I just wanted to know of the cash that you have on the balance sheet, how much is the investable at the holding level at the moment? And And maybe because you have repaid some debt as well, what is your equity firepower, if you were, to take on more new debt for future potential acquisitions? Okay. Let me take this question With regard to cash. Yes, as I already mentioned, the EUR 272,000,000 as of June 30, thereof, Approximately 30% non operating cash, so approximately €80,000,000 Of Higher Power, as you described, I guess We see more cash coming in within the next months. But nevertheless, we are always looking for options to re increase the cash on holding level. And we are currently discussing some measures, but These are not yet ready for use at this point in time, I guess. Maybe let me add Kjell, thank you for your question. Let me add the cash inflows just It's mainly based on the strong performance of our portfolio companies, and therefore, there is some non operational non needed cash around, which will be upstream in the upcoming months. Okay. Is there a leverage level on the holding or something that you would be comfortable with For the overall company, do you have any metrics in place for that or not really? You mean for the portfolio companies or for Auroidos? The whole year? Yes, we do have different metrics. I think at the moment, this is not a big issue, not a topic we are Too much concerned about definitely that there would be room for improvement if we see further opportunities or even bigger opportunities, which is the case, to be honest, that we see that the pipeline is really nicely filled. We do see nice opportunities in all the 3 different areas and especially on the co investment side, going for bigger deals, which might lead to a situation where they, okay, take on some additional cash. But as we outlined, there is a lot of Plenty of cash non needed cash operating non operational needed cash in our portfolio companies as well. So we might we will find the right balance here, but there's definitely room for headroom left here. Perfect. Thank you. The next question is from Alina Kuehler, Haakon Aufelden. Your line is now open. Please go ahead. Yes, good afternoon. I actually have an add on question to the same topic. What's currently the net debt at your holding level? And also what do you expect the net debt to be following the upstreaming of the cash? And then two more questions. One would be an update on Brinkfigo. When do you expect the closing of this? And on the third question, I was wondering and this is just for clarification. So if you use debt funding for co Is this included in the other position? Or will this be included in the core investment position in the net asset value calculation? Okay. So Alina, thanks for your questions. Maybe I start with the last one, the debt funding. It's not included in the NAB because we show only our equity stake in the NAB, but it's a cash out On the other segment level. So it's only a cash out, but yet not shown as a positive Development in our NAV of the co investments. With regards to your Question of the net debt on holding level. Yes, in comparison with the Q1 numbers, We made the payout of the dividend, as I mentioned, at roughly €29,000,000 So the net debt on holding level Increased a little bit in comparison with Q1. But as I already mentioned and also Matthias stated, We see a lot of potential for upstreaming some cash non operating or not needed operating cash in our portfolio companies. So we should increase our cash number within the next weeks months again. And we haven't received any further questions at this point. I hand back to the speakers for closing remarks. Yes, again, thank you very much to everybody out there for listening. I hope you're as pleased as we are with the outcome of the 1st 6 months. Strong performance, very positive outlook for the upcoming months when it comes to the performance of our existing portfolio companies, but especially also when it comes So the opportunities for doing new deals, new transactions and hopefully By 2022, also we'll see some bigger exits then again. Thank you very much for listening, and have a nice day.