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Earnings Call: Q3 2020

Oct 29, 2020

Speaker 1

A very good morning to you all and welcome to CAPMUND's Q3 Result Presentation. My name is Joakim Fried Mordig. I'm the CEO of the company. During the last few months, we have continued to develop and advance our business in line with our strategic objectives. And in the last quarter, we have been able to complete several important initiatives that build the foundation for a growing business, a growing result from 2021 forward.

The development of our management company business has been particularly strong in the last 9 months. And as a result of that, you can see that the assets under management of Cutmann are now at an all time high of €3,600,000,000 This follows the intake of about €500,000,000 in new assets under management in the Q3. The outlook looks good and we expect these assets under management to continue strong growth over the coming quarters. At the end of September, we announced the first closing of our 3rd Nordic value add fund, real estate fund. We have so far raised €313,000,000 to that fund.

The target is €500,000,000 and when we achieve the target, this will be the largest ever Gapman fund. Here we have and see a very strong investor demand making us confident in being able to reach the target this year. A second fund that we have been actively raising in the 3rd quarter is our 2nd growth fund. There we have so far raised €88,000,000 and thereby exceeded our targets. This has been one of the fastest fundraising processes in CAPPAN history and also backed by strong investor demand and strong performance of the first fund.

As said in the beginning, the management company business develops strongly. Overall, the segment grew by 5% and the management fee based income grew by 10% in the 1st 9 months of this year. And worth noting that the intake of the new assets under management is only partly reflected in the Q3 figures and that the full effect will be seen from next year onwards. We have also been able to maintain good cost control in this business segment and overall in Catman and thereby you can see that the operating profit of this segment has grown by over 50% to €5,500,000 for the 1st 3 quarters. Overall, one of the key strategic themes of Catman is to grow the recurring turnover base and overall this has grown by 10% during the 1st 9 months, even in the most challenging market conditions.

And when we combine a growing recurring turnover base with good cost control, we believe that we build a very strong foundation going forward. If we look at the balance sheet and our fair values, fair values developed positively in the 3rd quarter plus €2,600,000 This is the 2nd quarter in a row that we see a positive development, of course, following a very weak Q1 in terms of fair value development. Overall, combining the 1st 9 months, we are still at a negative SEK2.6 million when it comes to fair values for this year. And this, of course, driven by the market situation overall. Before I go into the segment figures, a quick overview of how we report the segments.

So 3 segments, management company business, where we derive management fee income and carried interest, service business, where we have fee based income and then our own balance sheet investments where we have returns from investments and fair value changes. So combining these components, you end up with the reported EBIT of our company. And then looking through these segments at the result, the management company business, I already mentioned that the management fee base was good, plus 10% and cost efficiency has improved. The new assets under management raised in the Q3 and that we plan to raise for the remainder of the year is, of course, not reflected fully in the fee base yet. So you could say that there is inbuilt growth for next year.

This is the part of our business where we have the highest earnings visibility and predictability and actually the share of recurring revenues in this segment in the 1st 9 months was 97%. Turnover, I said, plus 5% at €21,000,000 and EBIT plus 53% at €5,500,000 In the Service business, we have a different picture. We saw low transaction based fee income in the 2nd and third quarter, mainly caused by the pandemic. So overall, the turnover is down by 30% in this segment, but here also the recurring fee base has continued to grow, growth of 11%. In terms of profitability, we report an EBIT of €4,100,000 for the 1st 9 months and this is a 46% margin.

So even despite some softness in the transaction based fee income, the overall profitability still good and here also the recurring turnover part is growing. As we told you in combination with the Q2 result announcement, we are restructuring our service business. So we have we are growing caps internationally. We're going firstly into the Baltics and looking also at other new markets in that business segment. We have created J Solutions as a own independent service leg and we are building a completely new business model for our Catman Wealth Services new business service business area.

And with these initiatives, we are building a stronger service business and the impacts will be seen from next year onwards. Regarding the investment business, I already mentioned the highlights and improvement for the 2nd quarter in a row when it comes to fair values. And in the Q3, all the different investment areas contributed to this positive development, but the development was particularly strong in the infra segment. So if we combine the segments, we end up with the group numbers that you can see here. So turnover for the 1st 9 months about 30,000,000 and overall profitability measured by EBIT at about 3,000,000 and of course, we are far from last year's figures.

The biggest explanatory factor comes from the fair value change and really the big negative impact that we had in the beginning of the year, but thereafter the trend has been right, so we are moving in the right direction. And here also summarizing the EBIT breakdown for the 1st 9 months. So you can see the big increase in management fee profits, carried interest income has been minimal this year, service fee profit 4,500,000 and the investment business negative. So overall, we end up with an EBIT of 3,000,000 and worth noting also that in the other and elimination segment, we have costs related to the termination of the share performance plan nonrecurring item. Here, still to summarize, since there are different types of businesses combined in the overall figures of Kathmand, you can see the fee based profit, its development during this year, so has been profitable and is developing in the right direction all the time.

And of course, fair value starting from a very low level in Q1 with the adjustments there, but then steadily increasing thereafter. So this is the short term view. I wanted to add a few slides to take a bit longer perspective and look at the last 3 years what the development has been. And you can see that in terms of turnover and fee income growth, we have been achieving around 15% annual growth there and we see a good outlook to continue on that track. Especially strong outlook is on the management fee base, whereas mentioned with the actions that we have taken this year and will take over coming quarters, there will be inbuilt growth for next year and going forward.

Also in terms of fee profitability, we have been able to quadruple that in 3 years' time. There has been some weakness compared to the peak this year. But as said, we have the elements to continue the growth track here also driven by growth in the top line and good cost efficiency where we have made improvements in recent quarters. I mentioned the recurring turnover base and you can see here, this is on a group level, so combining both the management company business and the service business that we have been steadily growing this at a rate of 15% during the last 3 years and also this has been growing this year in challenging market conditions. The red line on the graph indicates our fixed expenses and we are following ratio of recurring revenue in comparison to fixed costs and that is growing and has grown to 121% at the end of Q3.

These are rolling 12 month figures. Cost control, cost efficiency has been a key agenda point for us this year. You can see the reported expenses for the last quarters here. And I think the key highlight here that if you look at the reported operating expenses, the 1st 9 months of this year compared to last year, we have been able to reduce them by close to €2,000,000 and at the same time making also new initiatives on on board growth initiatives, launching new teams and new products at the same time. COVID and the virus is, of course, on everybody's minds.

And just a quick reminder of how this impacts CAPMAN's earnings and we break this down into earnings components. So in terms of management fees, these are, of course, of long term nature and very predictable and creates stability for our business. The impact is really seen on the fundraising side and some delays has been seen during this year. And also there is some variation between different fundraising projects and different situations where in some instances we exceed our targets, in some instances we fall slightly short of our target, but overall, we move in line with the set objectives. On the service fee side, as said, the recurring part has been growing well, but there are transaction based fees where we are taking a hit from the market.

These relate to success fees, individual product sales fees and also commission income on the caps side. When it comes to carried interest income, of course, in this more uncertain market situation, we have not been able to materialize carry this year. And really the trend here is that that from our original plans, the carry has been moved forward in terms of time. Fair value changes impact our overall earnings significantly. And as you saw from previous slide, there is volatility in those figures, especially when it comes to the private equity investments.

Of course, in our balance sheet, we are have increased the part of real estate and infrastructure in recent years, creating stability and as said infrastructure has been performing very strongly this year. Also worth noting that when it comes to fair values, most of the changes are based on unrealized fair value changes. So the cash flow event when we do exits are still forthcoming. And we are long term in our objectives here, part of our business. Then if we look at the balance sheet, you can see the allocation here.

So at the end of September, we had about €160,000,000 own investments, €118,000,000 of that was in private market investments and the liquid assets, some €42,000,000 at the end of September. So overall, the share of private market investment has now risen to 74%, which is very close to our target level of 80% that we announced a few years ago. We also have outstanding commitments of about €100,000,000 into funds that will shift this allocation further over coming years. Overall, the balance sheet remains solid. The liquidity is good.

Equity over €100,000,000 equity ratio over €50,000,000 liquid assets over €40,000,000 We have undrawn credit facilities. And as mentioned earlier, in terms of allocation, the balance sheet has been moving more to the defensive side over the last couple of years. So overall, this creates us a good stability, a good footing to stand on. Despite the market turbulence that we have seen this year and the COVID situation, we have maintained our strategic direction and we have been able to complete many important initiatives that move us forward towards our vision. The vision is to be a Nordic private asset powerhouse, where we deploy capital broadly in the non listed space in the Nordics and where we source an increasing part of our funds outside of the Nordic area.

We focus on the private asset market and build related services to that offering. And also we are a force in society through our investments and we see that the impact of all that we go do goes well beyond our turnover and our own balance sheet. And on a more concrete level, you can see some of the actions that we have been making to implement this strategy over the last couple of years and also this year, and you can see a continued activity here. I already mentioned the Nordic Real Estate Fund. I mentioned the 2nd Growth Fund.

In the summer, we launched Catman Special Situations, where we are moving forward according to plan. We have expanded our real estate mandate, the BBK mandate this autumn. We also have a €50,000,000 co investment in Nord Led raising our assets under management on the infra side. And as said, we are restructuring our service business. So a lot of actions taking place.

Here is a long timeline of the development of assets under management. And at the end of the Q3, we have EUR 3,600,000,000 and that's an all time high for CAPPAN. You can also see shifts in the assets under management. So clearly, real estate is the largest part in terms of assets under management at the moment. Infra is a new area.

It has grown after September. We announced this morning that the assets under management in the infra business are now at €400,000,000 And this trend is set to continue with the actions that we have in place. And here you can see some of the ongoing fundraisings, so Nordic Real Estate 3, we continue with that, aim to reach the target during this year. Growth fund already above target, but fundraising continues. Buyout $175,000,000 fundraising continues.

And then we have 2 open ended products on the real estate side, our NPI fund and the hotels fund where we also raise new capital this year and years going forward. Also there are opportunities for mandates and co investments as you saw from the previous slide, we are actively pursuing these. In terms of fundraising market, maybe 2 trends that we see. The first has been a certain slowdown in the fundraising from our original plans. The second trend is a certain polarization, especially in the international fundraising market, where we see that established teams with existing track records find it relatively easy to raise capital in this market environment.

This is exemplified by our Nordic Real Estate 3 Fund and Growth Equity 2 Fund. On the other hand, new teams have more challenging times to raise capital, especially in the international side and therefore some of the fundraising initiatives for slightly short from original targets. But from a cat man group perspective, overall combining these effects, we are in line with our set group level targets. Our service business, as said, we are restructuring that and we have created our own business in J Solutions. This is our FinTech business.

It's our reporting it's our data management business. This is developing well. The number of clients year to date has grown by over 30%, revenue growth has been over 50%, and this is almost 100% recurring revenue business. The business is still loss making, but developing very strongly and we continue to focus and put efforts on developing the systems in place. Catman Wealth Services is a new wealth management business for us with a new business model.

Here we focus on institutional investors at the smaller end foundations, family offices, ultra high net worth individuals. And really the building blocks of this business are access to the best public and private funds, private asset know how in terms of service concepts where we combine the know how that we have within the Catman Group and the know how in systems that we have in JAM Advisors and make that into a unique offering. And also thirdly, I'll come back to that. So we have access, we have the systems and then we have the client centric focus here as building blocks. Caps, we have created a unique procurement business, unique concept that we have been growing in Finland and in Sweden and now we are taking this concept to new markets.

The first market is the Baltics, where we have announced a joint venture together with BoltCap to bring this concept into that new market. Overall, if you look at KAPS, it is operating with 150 member companies in Finland and Sweden, over 60 members in the Baltics. And these are sizable operations, if you look at the combined turnover of these companies, so over EUR 14,000,000,000 in Finland and Sweden, EUR 900,000,000 in the Despite the drop in commission income this year at Kaps, this has been compensated with the intake of new member businesses into the KAPS concept. This is a very profitable operation for us. These are our set long term financial objectives.

So we're looking for over 10% growth in terms of top line, 20% return on equity, over 60% equity ratio and our dividend policy is to pay an annually increasing dividend to our shareholders. If we look at the 1st 9 months of this year, turnover slightly negative and return on equity close to 0 and equity ratio at 52%. And I said really what is driving the return on equity and the profitability is the fair value part. We remain committed to our objective of paying a growing dividend to our shareholders. These are our themes for this year.

In terms of the fee based business, we expect growth in assets under management, growth in fees and also growth in fee based profitability. In terms of carried interest, we do not provide guidance on this, but clearly some delay as earlier indicated from our original plans in terms of realizing carry. And when it comes to the investment business, it is a big contributor to our overall profitability and there we have seen and continue to see some volatility, but overall the development in last couple of quarters has been in the right direction. Dividend policy already mentioned. This is our outlook estimate for this year and we have not made changes to this at the end of the Q3.

So to conclude, we could say that even in this turbulent market environment, we have been able to advance our strategy. We have been able to complete for us important strategic projects and growth initiatives. The management company business is developing very favorably and we have inbuilt growth for next year. At the same time, we have been able to uphold and improve our cost efficiency and overall we stand on a strong balance sheet and retain a high liquidity. So this is a good pace for us to go forward and continue to grow and develop our business.

This concludes this webcast. Thank you for taking the time to follow this and all the best. Thank you. A very good morning to you all and welcome to CAPTMAN's Q3 result presentation. My name is Joakim Fried Mordig.

I'm the CEO of the company. During the last few months, we have continued to develop and advance our business in line with our strategic objectives. And in the last quarter, we have been able to complete several important initiatives that build the foundation for a growing business, a growing result from 2021 forward. The development of our management company business has been particularly strong in the last 9 months. And as a result of that, you can see that the assets under management of now at an all time high of EUR 3,600,000,000 This follows the intake of about EUR 500,000,000 in new assets under management in the Q3.

The outlook looks good and we expect these assets under management to continue strong growth over the coming quarters. At the end of September, we announced the first closing of our 3rd Nordic value add fund, real estate fund. We have so far raised €313,000,000 to that fund. The target is €500,000,000 and when we achieve the target, this will be the largest ever Gatman fund. Here we have and see a very strong investor demand making us confident in being able to reach the target this year.

A second fund that we have been actively raising in the 3rd quarter is our 2nd growth fund. There we have so far raised €88,000,000 and thereby exceeded our targets. This has been one of the fastest fundraising processes in CAPMAN history and also backed by strong investor demand and strong performance of the first fund. As said in the beginning, the management company business develops strongly. Overall, the segment grew by 5% and the management fee based income grew by 10% in the 1st 9 months of this year.

And worth noting that the intake of the new assets under management is only partly cost control in this business segment and overall in Catman, and thereby you can see that the operating profit of this segment has grown by over 50% to €5,500,000 for the 1st 3 quarters. Overall, one of the key strategic themes of Catman is to grow the recurring turnover base and overall this has grown by 10% during the 1st 9 months, even in the most challenging market conditions. And when we combine a growing recurring turnover base with good cost control, we believe that we build a very strong foundation going forward. If we look at the balance sheet and our fair values, fair values developed positively in the 3rd quarter, plus EUR 2,600,000 This is the 2nd quarter in a row that we see a positive development, of course, following a very weak Q1 in terms of fair value development. Overall, combining the 1st 9 months, we are still at a negative 2,600,000 when it comes to fair values for this year.

And this, of course, driven by the market situation overall. Before I go into the segment figures, a quick overview of how we report the segments. So 3 segments, management company business, where we derive management fee income and carried interest, service business, where we have fee based income and then our own balance sheet investments where we have returns from investments and fair value changes. So combining these components, you end up with the reported EBIT of our company. And then looking through these segments at the result, the management company business, I already mentioned that the management fee base was good, plus 10% and cost efficiency has improved.

The new assets under management raised in the Q3 and that we plan to raise for the remainder of the year is, of course, not reflected fully in the fee base yet. So you could say that there is inbuilt growth for next year. This is the part of our business where we have the highest earnings visibility and predictability and actually the share of recurring revenues in this segment in the 1st 9 months was 97%. Turnover, I said, plus 5 percent at €21,000,000 and EBIT plus 53 percent at €5,500,000 In the Service business, we have a different picture. We saw low transaction based fee income in the 2nd and third quarter, mainly caused by the pandemic.

So overall, the turnover is down by 30% in this segment, but here also the recurring fee base has continued to grow, growth of 11%. In terms of profitability, we report an EBIT of €4,100,000 for the 1st 9 months, and this is a 46% margin. So even despite some softness in the transaction based fee income, the overall profitability still good and here also the recurring turnover part is growing. As we told you in combination with the Q2 result announcement, we are restructuring our service business. So we have we are growing caps internationally.

We're going firstly into the Baltics and looking also at other new markets in that business segment. We have created J Solutions as a own independent service leg and we are building a completely new business model for our Catman Wealth Services new business service business area. And with these initiatives, we are building a stronger service business and the impacts will be seen from next year onwards. Regarding the investment business, I already mentioned the highlights and improvement for the 2nd quarter in a row when it comes to fair values. And in the Q3, all the different investment areas contributed to this positive development, but the development was particularly strong in the infra segment.

So if we combine the segments, we end up with the group numbers that you can see here. So turnover for the 1st 9 months, about 30,000,000 and overall profitability measured by EBIT at about 3,000,000 and of course, we are far from last year's figures. The biggest explanatory factor comes from the fair value change and really the big negative impact that we had in the beginning of the year, but thereafter the trend has been right, so we are moving in the right direction. And here also summarizing the EBIT breakdown for the 1st 9 months. So you can see the big increase in management fee profits, carried interest income has been minimal this year, service fee profit 4,500,000 and the investment business negative.

So overall, we end up with an EBIT of 3,000,000 and worth noting also that in the other and elimination segment, we have costs related to the termination of the share performance plan nonrecurring item. Here, still to summarize, since there are different types of businesses combined in the overall figures of Kathmand, you can see the fee based profit, its development during this year, so has been profitable and is developing in the right direction all the time. And of course, fair value starting from a very low level in Q1 with the adjustments there, but then steadily increasing thereafter. So this is the short term view. I wanted to add a few slides to take a bit longer perspective and look at the last 3 years what the development has been.

And you can see that in terms of turnover and fee income growth, we have been achieving around 15% annual growth there and we see a good outlook to continue on that track. Especially strong outlook is on the management fee base, whereas mentioned with the actions that we have taken this year and will take over coming quarters, there will be inbuilt growth for next year and going forward. Also in terms of fee profitability, we have been able to put trouble that in 3 years' time. There has been some weakness compared to the peak this year, but as said, we have the elements to continue the growth track here also driven by growth in the top line and good cost efficiency where we have made improvements in recent quarters. I mentioned the recurring turnover base and you can see here, this is on a group level, so combining both the management company business and the service business that we have been steadily growing this at a rate of 15% during the last 3 years and also this has been growing this year in challenging market conditions.

The red line on the graph indicates our fixed expenses and we are following ratio of recurring revenue in comparison to fixed costs and that is growing and has grown to 121% at the end of Q3. These are rolling 12 month figures. Cost control, cost efficiency has been a key agenda point for us this year. You can see the reported expenses for the last quarters here. And I think the key highlight here that if you look at the reported operating expenses, the 1st 9 months of this year compared to last year, we have been able to reduce them by close to €2,000,000 and at the same time making also new initiatives on onboard growth initiatives, launching new teams and new products at the same time.

COVID and the virus is, of course, on everybody's minds and just a quick reminder of how this impacts CAPMAN's earnings and we break this down into earnings components. So in terms of management fees, these are, of course, of long term nature and very predictable and creates stability for our business. The impact is really seen on the fundraising side and some delays has been seen during this year. And also there is some variation between different fundraising projects and different situations where in some instances we exceed our targets, in some instances we fall slightly short of our target, but overall we move in line with the set objectives. On the service fee side, as said, the recurring part has been growing well, but there are transaction based fees where we are taking a hit from the market.

These relate to success fees, individual product sales fees and also commission income on the caps side. When it comes to carried interest income, of course, in this more uncertain market situation, we have not been able to materialize carry this year. And really the trend here is that that are from our original plans, the carry has been moved forward in terms of time. Fair value changes impact our overall earnings significantly. And as you saw from previous slide, there is volatility in those figures, especially when it comes to the private equity investments.

Of course, in our balance sheet, we have increased the part of real estate and infrastructure in recent years, creating stability and as said infrastructure has been performing very strongly this year. Also worth noting that when it comes to fair values, most of the changes are based on unrealized fair value changes. So the cash flow event when we do exits are still forthcoming. And we are long term in our objectives here, part of our business. Then if we look at the balance sheet, you can see the allocation here.

So at the end of September, we had about €160,000,000 own investments, €118,000,000 of that was in private market investments and the liquid assets, some forty $2,000,000 at the end of September. So overall, the share of private market investment has now risen to 74%, which is very close to our target level of 80% that we announced a few years ago. We also have outstanding commitments of about €100,000,000 into funds that will shift this allocation further over coming years. Overall, the balance sheet remains solid. The liquidity is good.

Equity over €100,000,000 equity ratio over €50,000,000 liquid assets over €40,000,000 We have undrawn credit facilities. And as mentioned earlier, in terms of allocation, the balance sheet has been moving more to the defensive side over the last couple of years. So overall, this creates us a good stability, a good footing to stand on. Despite the market turbulence that we have seen this year and the COVID situation, we have maintained our strategic direction and we have been able to complete many important initiatives that move us forward towards our vision. The vision is to be a Nordic private asset powerhouse, where we deploy capital broadly in the non listed space in the Nordics and where we source an increasing part of our funds outside of the Nordic area.

We focus on the private asset market and build related services to that offering. And also, we are a force in society through our investments and we see that the impact of all that we go do goes well beyond our turnover and our own balance sheet. And on a more concrete level, you can see some of the actions that we have been making to implement this strategy over the last couple of years and also this year, and you can see a continued activity here. I already mentioned the Nordic Real Estate Fund. I mentioned the 2nd Growth Fund.

In the summer, we launched Catman Special Situations, where we are moving forward according to plan. We have expanded our real estate mandate, the BBK mandate this autumn. We also have a 50,000,000 co investment in Nordled raising our assets under management on the infra side. And as said, we are restructuring our service business. So a lot of actions taking place.

Here is a long timeline of the development of assets under management. And at the end of the Q3, we have €3,600,000,000 and that's an all time high for CAPPAN. You can also see shifts in the assets under management. So clearly, real estate is the largest part in terms of assets under management at the moment. Infra is a new area.

It has grown after September. We announced this morning that the assets under management in the infra business are now at €400,000,000 And this trend is set to continue with the actions that we have in place. And here you can see some of the ongoing fundraisings, so Nordic Real Estate 3, we continue with that, aim to reach the target during this year. Growth fund already above target, but fundraising continues. Buyout $175,000,000 fundraising continues.

And then we have 2 open ended products on the real estate side, our NPI fund and the hotels fund where we also raise new capital this year and years going forward. Also there are opportunities for mandates and co investments as you saw from the previous slide, we are actively pursuing these. In terms of fundraising market, maybe 2 trends that we see. The first has been a certain slowdown in the fundraising from our original plans. The second trend is a certain polarization, especially in the international fundraising market, where we see that established teams with existing track records find it relatively easy to raise capital in this market environment.

This is exemplified by our Nordic Real Estate 3 Fund and Growth Equity 2 Fund. On the other hand, new teams have more challenging times to raise capital, especially in the international side and therefore some of the fundraising initiatives for slightly short from original targets. But from a cat man group perspective, overall combining these effects, we are in line with our set group level targets. Our Service business, as said, we are restructuring that and we have created our own business in J Solutions. This is our FinTech business.

It's our reporting business. It's our data management business. This is developing well. The number of clients year to date has grown by over 30%, revenue growth has been over 50% and this is almost 100% recurring revenue business. The business is still loss making, but developing very strongly and we continue to focus and put efforts on developing the systems in place.

Catman Wealth Services is a new wealth management business for us with a new business model. Here we focus on institutional investors at the smaller end, foundations, family offices, ultra high net worth individuals. And really the building blocks of this business are access to the best public and private funds, private asset know how in terms of service concepts where we combine the know how that we have within the Catman Group and the know how in systems that we have in JAM Advisors and make that into a unique offering. And also thirdly, I'll come back to that. So we have access, we have the systems and then we have the client centric focus here as building blocks.

Caps, we have created a unique procurement business, unique concept that we have been growing in Finland and in Sweden and now we are taking this concept to new markets. The first market is the Baltics, where we have announced a joint venture together with BoltCap to bring this concept into that new market. Overall, if you look at KAPS, it is operating with 150 member companies in Finland and Sweden, over 60 members in the Baltics. And these are sizable operations, if you look at the combined turnover of these companies, so over SEK 14,000,000,000 in Finland and Sweden and EUR 900,000,000 in the Baltics, which means that there's also a lot of procurement activity in these businesses. Despite the drop in commission income this year at Kaps, this has been compensated with the intake of new member businesses into the Kaps concept.

This is a very profitable operation for us. These are our set long term financial objectives. So we're looking for over 10% growth in terms of top line, 20% return on equity, over percent equity ratio and our dividend policy is to pay an annually increasing dividend to our shareholders. If we look at the 1st 9 months of this year, turnover slightly negative and return on equity close to 0 and equity ratio at 52%. And I said really what is driving the return on equity and the profitability is the fair value part.

We remain committed to our objective of paying a growing dividend to our shareholders. These are our themes for this year. In terms of the fee based business, we expect growth in assets under management, growth in fees and also growth in fee based profitability. In terms of carried interest, we do not provide guidance on this, but clearly some delay as earlier indicated from our original plans in terms of realizing carry. And when it comes to the investment business, it is a big contributor to our overall it is a big contributor to our overall profitability and there we have seen and continue to see some volatility, but overall the development in last couple of quarters has been in the right direction.

Dividend policy already mentioned. This is our outlook estimate for this year and we have not made changes to this at the end of the Q3. So to conclude, we could say that even in this turbulent market environment, we have been able to advance our strategy. We have been able to complete for us important strategic projects and growth initiatives. The management company business is developing very favorably and we have inbuilt growth for next year.

At the same time, we have been able to uphold and improve our cost efficiency and overall we stand on a strong balance sheet and retain a high liquidity. So this is a good pace for us to go forward and continue to grow and develop our business. This concludes this webcast. Thank you for taking the time to follow this and all the best. Thank you.

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