Elisa Oyj (HEL:ELISA)
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Apr 28, 2026, 6:29 PM EET
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Earnings Call: Q4 2019

Jan 29, 2020

Speaker 1

Thank you, Wesa, and welcome everybody to our fourth quarter results review on my behalf as well. The quarter was going according to our expectations pretty much. Revenue growing by 4% and our EBITDA also growing 6%. Mobile service revenue growth came to 1.5%. Year on year, we had growth also quarter on quarter with this mobile service revenue.

Postpaid chain stayed pretty much on the same level as in the third quarter. Competitive situation remained pretty much on the same level overall. We increased postpaid subscription base by 36,800. In the fixed broadband base, the number was decreasing 8,300, but actually the number of paying customers was increasing by 4,700 since we cleaned up some non revenue generating customers of 13,000 altogether. Five gs services rollout is going very well.

As the leader in five gs services, we have now expanded our network to 13 cities in Finland. And our Board has made the decision to propose the dividend of €0.08 per share to the AGM. If you take a bit look of the full year, we had some revenue growth. As we told a year ago, the beginning of the year is a bit more challenging. Overall, we had 0.7% revenue growth, EBITDA growing with 4.4%.

Of course, the IFRS also helping with that very much. Earnings per share came a bit down being €1.93 We invested 12% of CapEx. Overall, the average mobile service revenue growth during the year was 1.9 percentages. And as we have said, the mobile service revenue growth has a positive sign in the number. So it was this time plus 1.9 this year.

Also, we saw subscription basis to grow a little bit and the mobile data that we have in our traffic expanded with 21% being now 1,000 gigabytes altogether. In the fourth quarter, revenue growth was coming from Polystar acquisition and equipment sales as well as from mobile services. Mobile service revenue growth with the continued upselling of higher speeds as well as some product changes that we have done with the pricing changes as well. EBITDA, of course, the accounting change helping us, but also our continued productivity improvement leading to efficiency improvements and profitability improvements also helped. In terms of the ARPU, of course, the lower interconnection prices have had impact, but also the price pressure based on campaigning or other competitive activities.

However, ARPU being pretty much on the same level as it has been in the past quarters. Then if we take a look on our business segments, Consumer side and Corporate side, both segments saw revenue growth. We had 2% growth in Consumer side driven by mobile and digital services and equipment sales. And in the corporate side, we got 6% growth partly by Polystar acquisition, but also with the mobile services and equipment sales helping to grow the business. In the EBITA, both segments saw growth EBITA growing in consumer side with 5% and in the corporate side 69%.

We continue the execution of our strategy with three focus areas where we see very good potential to create results in every and each of them. Looking at the development in the mobile data business, we have now the penetration of four gs customers. Our smartphone penetration has reached 85%, continuing approximately one percentage point per quarter. The four gs speeds that we have in the customer base have reached 72%, of which 28% are in the lowest speed level. So we see that continuously the customers are moving also to the higher speed tiers in the four gs.

And now we, of course, have introduced the five gs, where we have already thousands of five gs customers. The proportion of data bundles also and fixed monthly fees customers instead of usage fee customers that is growing and now 76% have all you can eat type of bundles of our customer base. As the leader in five gs introduction to Finland, we continue by having the services available already in 13 cities. We have 200,000 Finns already in the area of coverage area of our services. In the capital area, that is one of the largest five gs coverage area in the whole Europe.

And also, we have introduced the fixed wireless access service with very interesting results from the customers, how it really enables the home Internet connection to be improved. And we are leading the five gs market also with the IoT customers and IoT applications. We have been piloting many new applications with five gs, for example, with five gs drone with the public broadcasting company together to provide direct TV broadcasting with the help of drones as well as some virtual reality applications we have been testing and so forth. We have also this ELISA five gs co creation challenge where we, together with startups, have co developed various services that take the opportunity of the improved performance that five gs will bring. So there's a lot of activity in terms of providing just faster speeds to customers with the help of five gs, but also to enable and experiment and learn of the new applications that will benefit from the enlarged performances of five gs.

So we are still in early days of the five gs, but this looks very interesting and good. And as the leader in five gs introduction, we continue the way with that. In our digital services, there's a lot of development there as well. For the domestic services, our Elisa Wide entertainment service, the original series have been very well received, receiving for example 13 Wenla awards, one could call them Finnish Oscars nominations award nominations and also the originals several of the original series have been sold to 30 countries or so in other markets. So it shows the quality that we have with our co production of original series.

We also introduced new Elisa Vida premium service and devices as well as smart TV application and they have been also very well received by the customers. In the international digital service areas, our Smart Factory management and Smart Supply Chain product lines have expanded with new customer wins, especially in pharma and electronics sectors. We have very solid growth with the Polystar business that we acquired in the middle of the year with double digit growth with new customers and the integration of ELISA Automate business together with Polystar is moving very well ahead. Also, ELISA Videra has won several new big international video service customers altogether. And then I continue to the outlook and the guidance.

We see that the positive development of the macroeconomic environment in Finland continues to decelerate and competition in our brands remains challenging. Our revenue will be at the same level or slightly higher than 2019. Comparable EBITDA also at the same level or slightly higher than 2019, and our capital expenditures will be maximum 12% of revenues. Now I turn the word to Yari.

Speaker 2

Thank you. I'll start with profit and loss development and first top line growth, which accelerated and was, with the exact percentage, is 3.5%, almost EUR 17,000,000 growth. And main part of that, of course, Polestar acquisition, 10,000,000 and another EUR 10,000,000 from increased equipment sales. Negative impact coming from interconnection and roaming and interconnection prices were lower than a year ago. Service revenues in Corporate segment were EUR 4,000,000 below last year.

Consumer segment was EUR 3,000,000 higher. And in both segments, OPAR Services growing, digital services in consumer segment growing and negative impact from traditional fixed line services. EBITDA was growing €10,000,000 6.3% and IFRS 16 impact was €4,700,000 And exactly as we said in the beginning of the year that second half of the year is better. So that is exactly what happened here. EBITDA margin was 34.5%.

EBIT was growing 1.7% to 100,000,000. Depreciation included approximately EUR 1,000,000 write down, one off type of write down. Financial expenses reduced as a result of refinancing in Q4, And all that resulted to earnings per share growth of 4%. Estonia continued to grow both in terms of revenue and EBITDA. Revenue was increasing 7%, EBITDA 2%, both mobile and fixed services as well as equipment sales contributed to revenue growth.

Mobile postpaid base increased by 1,000 subscriptions and churn was 10.4%. Total CapEx was EUR83 million and excluding IFRS 16 change, million and total CapEx by segments, Consumer segment million and Corporate segment EUR29 million. For the whole year, million, in line with guidance, 12% of revenue. And the same guidance is given for this year as well, so 12% from sales. Main CapEx relate to capacity and coverage increases and other network and IT investments.

Cash flow was continuing solid level, and Q4 cash flow was EUR 55,000,000, slightly down from last year, positive impact from higher EBITDA and including IFRS 16 impact negative impact from net working capital change and higher CapEx and net working capital in net working capital change receivables were higher than a year ago as a result of higher equipment sales, which are sold partly with payment times. Also, some impact coming from postal office strike, which extended the payment dates from December to this year. Cash conversion in operating cash flow was at 58%. Also capital structure KPIs are well in targets. Net debt to EBITDA decreased from Q3 1.9 to 1.8x equity ratio at 41%.

And we did pay repay EUR 180,000,000 bond in Q4, which resulted to lower interest expenses difference against a year ago was €2,000,000 And return ratios remained at a good level. Return on equity, 27% and return on investments, 17.5%. And Board of Directors made a proposal to AGM regarding dividend of EUR 1.85 per share, which is 6% growth against a year ago and continuing series of increasing dividends now six consecutive year. Ex dividend date is April 3, payment date April 15. Total amount to be paid is €296,000,000 and this proposal represents payout ratio of 96% and dividend yield approximately 4% against the share price end of last year.

Additionally, there was a proposal of EUR 5,000,000 shares buyback authorization. And all in all, continuation of strong commitment to competitive shareholder remuneration. And now I give word to Wessa, please.

Speaker 3

Thank you, Jari. And now

Speaker 4

we move on to Q and A part and we start from the audience. First question from the audience.

Speaker 5

Arte, please. Yes. Hi. Arte Beleste from SEB. A couple of questions from my side.

So first starting with your mobile intake in Finland and what comes to postpaid. So it seems to be the case that a lot of positive development has been seen on corporate side and apparently, municipality deals what you got in the past. Do you expect this kind of positive inflow to continue also in coming quarters from municipality agreements?

Speaker 1

Well, we have you're right, we got the majority of that growth comes from this one deal that we had with the municipalities. We will still have some growth from that in the first quarter of the year, but there will be a renewal of the contract sometime later this year. So we'll see then what goes on from that, but at least for the first quarter.

Speaker 5

Yes. Then maybe a quick one in terms of mobile service revenue growth and a bit of deceleration in Q4, but is your sort of overall message intact that you are expecting it basically to be positive for do you provide some further color on it?

Speaker 1

Yes. We see opportunity to grow with mobile service revenues without giving any exact number. Full year was 1.9% on average. We had now 1.5. Probably, I guess, we were the only operator having a quarter on quarter growth in mobile service revenues.

And with the tight competition with campaigns and pricing, Quarters are a bit different from quarter to quarter, but we see positive opportunities going forward.

Speaker 5

And then maybe last one from my side. In terms of five gs intake and development on that front, could you provide further color how it has been developing? And do you see, so let's say, bigger demand coming from your fixed wireless offering? Or is it basically driven by smartphone users basically?

Speaker 1

Majority is, of course, from the smartphone user base. From consumer and corporate side, fixed wireless access is one particular area where we can have also some growth. Now when we are expanding the coverage, we will start to get actually a bit earlier than expected also a more affordable smartphones first half of the year already. I'm expecting a good continuation of the subscription intake with five gs. We have already now thousands of customers both in consumer and corporate side, and the growth has really gone according to our expectations.

And it looks positive how it evolves.

Speaker 5

Okay, great. Thank you.

Speaker 1

You're welcome.

Speaker 3

Sami, please. Sami Sarkem, Nordea Markets. I would first continue on Corporate segment. We talked about the customer inflows you had in Q4. Did you have any negative timing impacts?

I mean, looking at the ARPU dilution in the Corporate segment, was that impacted by timing of these new customers? Or are we looking at sort of the underlying ARPU dilution due to sort of additional business from the municipal segment?

Speaker 1

In terms of the ARPU dilution, there's of course the interconnection prices that is impacting on that. But also this the public sector customers, their ARPU is lower than the average in the corporate segment. And when we get a bunch of those, that is, of course, diluting.

Speaker 3

Okay. Then moving into the security concerns related to your suppliers. There was a policy approved by The U. K. Yesterday.

Could you elaborate on potential implications in case Finland would adopt the exact same policy as done in The U. K. Yesterday?

Speaker 1

I'm not fully I have not fully analyzed what The U. K. Policy would mean to us. But of course, so that UK also sees a bit more vendor agnostically, the opportunities is, course, we believe reasonable. And we are, of course, part of EU, which U.

K. Isn't anymore after this month. But EU has done its analysis, and there will be measures that EU will recommend to the member countries. And it's up to each member country to then deploy the recommendations and rules. I'm expecting us to have opportunity to use vendors from different geographies.

But of course, the whole cybersecurity is and has been and is, of course, an important topic for us. We have a great capability and not the least because of probably the world's most automated operations as well as that we operate our networks ourselves. We are the only operator that doesn't buy any managed service for the mobile operations in Finland. So we have the most secure networks from that respect, because then there are nobody coming into our network without us knowing it and there's no 20 fourseven opportunity to operate by anybody else. So that kind of risk mitigation is a totally different level on our networks.

And of course, we are selling that capability to many others who want to turn their managed service business to self operate.

Speaker 3

Okay. Thanks. Then I have a question on your dividend policy. You're now raising the payout ratio from mid of the range to sort of closer to the upper end of the range. Should we regard the 80% to 100% range as like a hard range?

Or would you be sort of able to deviate from that range if needed?

Speaker 1

Well, if needed. We, of course, have growth ambitions both in the dividend and as our EPS. The policy is very much intact. It remains to be seen how we are evolving. But of course, we have a growth in mind when it comes to our earnings per share.

Speaker 3

Okay. And then on 2020 outlook, I'd like to ask if you're planning any material post measures during this year.

Speaker 1

We have our quite unique way to improve productivity with the continuous improvement way, which we have been rewarded also with the Finnish quality award and the EFQ and Five Star recognition that no other operators have got, for example, in Finland, but all the rest. So we have our way to improve productivity is quite unique. It's a continuous, it's a Elisa White, all the personnel is taking part of it. So that is the kind of mean for us and machine for us to continuously improve the productivity based on the quality improvements to customers. So as we have not seen in the past years either, we don't see any major restructurings reductions.

Saying that, of course, we have automization spreading to ELISA to many parts of the manual work. We are heavy user of robotic automation robotic process automization. Are We heavy user of machine learning and artificial intelligence more and more. So of course, we utilize those, but we have also new things to do for our people. So in that respect, it's not about just slashing a lot of employees and make the improvements.

It's more the continuous improvement, the utilizing the technology and the digitalization, which we continue to do.

Speaker 3

Okay. Thanks. And finally, a question to Jari on Polystar. Could you disclose the profit contribution from that part of your business in Q4? And then maybe some words on the outlook of that business for this year?

Speaker 2

Yes. As said, revenue was approximately EUR 10,000,000, EBITDA level of EUR 1,000,000. And Polestar has some seasonality. So typically, beginning of the year is strong season for Polestar business.

Speaker 4

Okay. Thank you. Any further questions at the moment from audience? No, there seems to be no questions here. So we ask first question from the conference call lines, please.

Speaker 6

Thank you. Our first question comes from the line of Andrew Lee of Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead. Your line is now open.

Speaker 7

Yes. Thanks for taking the question. I just had a second or a follow-up question on the mobile service revenue comments you made. ARPU is slightly lower year on year, and I know you're blaming lowering interconnect as well as competition. I just wanted to get your sense on the puts and takes going into 2020.

Has competition got any worse in the fourth quarter that makes you more nervous about that? And do you expect it getting any worse through 2020? And then when should the interconnect headwinds less up and deliver an easier comp? All

Speaker 1

right. We shouldn't have the interconnection price impacts anymore for the quarters this year. Maybe later on, there will be some changes to the prices, but this year should be the same as last year. In terms of competition, we overall, we didn't see a major change in the quite competitive environment from third quarter to fourth quarter. Of course, there were some kind of business events and seasons in November and the Christmas and all that.

But overall, in terms of the campaigns and pricing moves, we didn't see any major change from third quarter. Towards the future, of course, we cannot forecast what our competition is doing. We are quite confident on our competitiveness, how we have been developing it, our capabilities in terms of that. And of course, we are encouraged all the time with the demand that we see based on the continuation of the digitalization by people, the continuation of the demand for higher speeds and also further on to five gs.

Speaker 7

Thank you very much.

Speaker 6

Our next question comes from the line of Roman Abrusov of JPMorgan. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Speaker 8

Good afternoon and good morning. Thank you for taking the question. I had a question on the pace of net adds that you've been delivering throughout 2019. You've had a very strong year in terms of net adds and looking into your competitors, you're way ahead, especially ahead of Telia. In that context, then Telia is also going through a period of management change.

And as we all remember, periods where there are management changes for TDR are typically followed by relatively aggressive price competition periods. So my question is, do you think you may have actually pushed a little bit too hard? I mean, you've taken a decent amount of market share on the postpaid net adds. And is that a sensible strategy, do you think, in light of the TD management changes in particular? Thank you very much.

Speaker 1

Well, I don't think that we have been the pusher of NetAds. Why we have been increasing more than the others? One thing is that we got this big public deal. But before that public deal, we saw very aggressive behavior by our competition in the B2B segment. And we first started to lose, let's say, from two years ago and last early last year as well.

So we have been responding basically, but we were able to be competitive in one big deal. That's why the red result is a bit positive for our side. We are not going after market share in terms of the subscriptions because we see that we have bigger business opportunity by selling more to our customers. But as said many times before, we defend if we will be attacked, we will defend, And that remains the same. But this was the kind of net result from last year.

In terms of our competition, changing the management and what which kind of strategy to create shareholder value the new management has, I know. So it remains to be seen. But like I said earlier, we are very comfortable on how we have developed our competitiveness and how we know how we develop it further on.

Speaker 8

And can I just follow-up with one more? DNA has issued a press release earlier today saying that they're gearing up to bolster their B2B muscles. They're looking to hire people and roll out new products. Have you seen any change in behavior in the corporate front from D and A already? And have you seen any impact?

And I don't know if you've had a chance to think about the things that they're gearing up to do. But can you comment on what you see in B2B now and going forward, please?

Speaker 1

Well, time to time, we see our competition to have recruitment announcement in the magazines and everywhere. We are used to have different efforts from different competitors in the B2B segment to kind of increase or change their efforts, including D and A. We are used to that. And of course, we are not standing still. We have a firm competitive position, and we have a lot of capability developments ongoing how we improve our competitiveness.

So we are comfortable that we can face continuously increased competitive capabilities from the competition, if you will.

Speaker 8

Thank you very much.

Speaker 6

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Terence Tsui of Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead. Your line is now open.

Speaker 8

Thank you. A couple of quick questions, please. Just firstly on five gs, thanks for sharing the data, that you have. Just wondered if you can provide us maybe with how many five gs active subscriptions And what sort of ARPU uplift you're seeing compared to the four gs services?

And then secondly, just around M and A, I just wondered if you're optimistic that there could be some more bolt on opportunities available in 2020, maybe similar to Polystar or some of the other ones that you've done in the past?

Speaker 1

All right. Thank you. In terms of the five gs number of subscriptions, we are maybe a bit early to tell exact numbers, but we have thousands of customers, and we are increasing with a very promising pace, if you will, both in the Consumer segment as well as in Corporate segment. And the ARPU level is higher for those on average than we have for the rest of the customer base. So it is really, really clearly valued by the customers, and it is providing more value to customers.

In terms of the bolt on acquisitions, yes, we have a, let's say, quite exciting opportunity since we have not only the telco and IT M and A opportunities in Finnish and Estonian markets where we focus with these businesses, but we have the international business domains, ELISA Automate, our smart factory management and even video conferencing. And in those three areas, there's a quite wide spade of potential acquisition targets. Of course, we need to work very, let's say, well to identify, analyze and to find really a kind of best deals. But the kind of opportunity space is quite large. So in nutshell, I can say that, yes, it is possible that we continue the bolt on acquisitions this year as well.

Speaker 9

Great. That's very helpful.

Speaker 1

You're welcome.

Speaker 6

Our next question comes from the line of Peter Kurt Nielsen of ABG Sundal Collier. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Speaker 10

Yes, thank you very much. You've just spoken about actually related to my questions on international digital services. Your comments sort of your commentary over the last few quarters suggest that you're seeing quite good momentum in these operations. And are we seeing sort of a meaningful impact on revenues? And can I just ask, is the has Polystar provided your Ultramed business with I mean, are you successfully seeing cross selling to their customers?

Has it brought the benefits which you had hoped for? And as again, how are we seeing a meaningful impact now from the growth in the international digital services, please? Thank you.

Speaker 1

You're welcome. Thank you, Peter Koot. In terms of the revenue, we can say that together with the Polystar acquisition and the growth, the international digital services and also including Smart Factory and Videra, they are reaching closer to €100,000,000 Now we are talking about that kind of annual run rate approximately in broad terms. So it is starting to become meaningful revenue. But for us, it's more important than exactly now get the revenue to show up that to find that we are on the right track on being with the new growing areas of businesses internationally with competitive capabilities.

And that's something that we have been proven more and more, and I'm encouraged of that. In terms of Polystar acquisition, Polystar has been continuing its growth, and it has been really executing well even if Elisa bought them. And Elisa has bought some new ideas about the joint work with our Elisa Automate product lines and all that. And we are we have already the first customers for cross selling ELISA Polystar customers, ELISA Automate. So all that looks good.

But of course, I'm as a CEO, I'm impatient I'm not so patient to for the speed. But of course, when you are looking both organic and M and A, there needs to be a certain patience to do the right things, not just to create revenues at once. But in a nutshell, as a summary, I believe that we have a very interesting opportunities for years to come with these digital services internationally.

Speaker 10

You. William, could I ask you to repeat the number you gave initially for the run rate? It didn't come through at my end.

Speaker 1

Altogether, the international, one could say, €100,000,000 Towards one towards $100,100,000,000 million euros What? Towards not exact, but 50,000,000 to 100,000,000 let's say, so then it's clearly because we since we are not reporting it, it's better that I'm not giving exact number because it's not EUR 100,000,000 exactly.

Speaker 10

Thank you.

Speaker 6

You're welcome. Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Mathieu Riccone of Hard Carnegie. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Speaker 11

Hello, good afternoon. Three questions from my side. First of all, when you give the top line guidance and you say that mobile services growth is one of the contributing factors higher top line growth in 2020. Do you see that five gs would be any kind of meaningful contributor to that? Or is it still that four gs speed upgrades are doing the most of, let's say, the bulk of the growth?

Speaker 1

All right, Matti. Five gs potentially can be a good contributor. It depends on how it evolves. But we see that overall, the speed upgrades are continuing. The demand for that is continuing.

So overall, whether it's four gs speed upgrades or additionally five gs, we see the mobile service revenue growth opportunity to contribute to the revenue growth in the year.

Speaker 11

All right. Thank you. Then secondly, when we look at your mobile service revenue growth, the 1.5% and roughly 2% in 2019, You were growing, but your competition was growing faster. So what do you think makes this distinction that has enabled them to grow faster? Is it lower base that they are starting from?

Or do you see some kind of other elements that might have an impact? And also, thoughts about how it's going to continue. I know that you only say that it's you expect it to grow like this year not 'nineteen. But how do you think that the chances are?

Speaker 1

Well, I guess we have one competitor who has been growing a bit higher numbers and one with a bit lower. So I don't know which one you want me to comment. But nevertheless, I don't know exactly the where the details of the contribution of any of different mobile service revenue elements to their numbers. So I cannot comment I can only comment of our way forward. And we mainly have not been increasing the customer base as much as at least one of our competition.

So we have not had a strategy for market share growth even if we had some growth in the number of subscribers based on one larger deal that I explained. We have more focused on giving more value to customers and providing through the speed upgrades. We are, of course, the biggest also that the percentual numbers are telling then a lower story a lower number story, But we are focusing on our own race for the most to generate good reasons for our customers to pay more by getting more value, for example, by speed, but of course also taking making sure that we are not a target for anybody who is willing to take market share, then we are responding.

Speaker 2

And maybe adding one thing. I think I believe we were the only one who had Q on Q growth in Service revenue.

Speaker 11

Yes. I was looking at the year over year numbers in Q4.

Speaker 1

If you look at

Speaker 7

Anyway, thank

Speaker 1

But if you take a look on third quarter to fourth quarter change, we had the only we were the only one having positive number there.

Speaker 11

Yes. That's, of course, correct.

Speaker 1

So there are some dynamics moving in different directions.

Speaker 11

Fair enough. Then the third question is a bit more broad. I was surprised to see that there was a net radar study a couple of days ago in Finland saying that the four gs speeds on average in the country were having declined versus a couple of years ago, and that was a little bit surprising. So do you think that it would mean that on average in Finland, the network capacity utilization has increased more than capacity itself? Or is it just a deliberate decision from you and other operators to basically reduce speeds unless you get paid for that?

So is it more tighter control of what the customers are actually getting? Or is the kind of survey kind of irrelevant in your view? How do you feel about that?

Speaker 1

I don't know exactly the Netradar study in details, but you have to remember that some of our competition gives full speed even though they may sell reduced speeds. So the how much they have followed our customers versus the others, I don't know. But there's a the fact, of course, is that we have more customers having more moving more traffic in the networks of three operators overall. So there may well be that in some parts of the operator network, some operators' networks, the capacity increase has not grown at the pace where the customer usage has grown. I doubt, at least from Elisa's point of view, I can say that we are not consciously decreasing the speeds for our customers.

I would doubt that our competition do it even if I don't know. But it is about the main driver is that increased demand for the traffic. But then, of course, it is about which how and which way this whole study has been made. It is very important to take a look. We saw a bit similar kind of studies with similar kind of, let's say, results when we were starting to move from three gs to four gs for three gs network.

So we may be in the situation of operators moving their investments more to five gs. And then for a certain period of time, the four gs investments are not following the, let's say, the altogether the demand that has been growing in the four gs side. But I would say that I would need to we'd need to see a bit more in details how this study has been done. It is only one study.

Speaker 11

Yes, of course. Okay. Thank you for the answer.

Speaker 7

Thank you.

Speaker 11

You're welcome. That was it from my side.

Speaker 6

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Adam Fox Romley of HSBC. Please go ahead.

Speaker 9

Thank you. I've got two questions, please. One of your competitors is planning to invest more in its fiber networks in the next year and is also planning on taking its taking out its copper network. I guess the first part is to what extent is that any form of competitive threat to you? And could you give us an update on your plans in that similar network investment?

And then secondly, I'm just thinking about your domestic digital services. So we talked a bit about the international ones. But I wondered if you could say where we see that contribution in your financial statements from, say, selling a program to multiple territories. And if you're able to give a similar indication of the scale of those domestic digital services, that would be very useful. Thank you.

Speaker 1

All right. In terms of the fiber, we are the largest fixed network operator in Finland. We have a lot of fiber. We know pretty well the demand for fiber solutions, both in the consumer side, fiber to the home or fiber to the curb as well as fiber to the for the P2P customers. And of course, in our infrastructure for mobile, there's a lot of usage of fiber.

We, of course, have growth plans in we need more fiber, and we have growth plans. We are not detailing those, but we have growth plans according to the needs and the demand. One misunderstanding what exists when countries are looked at is when thinking about the demand for fiber usage. Finland is a very different country just when looking at, for example, Sweden. We have the unlimited mobile broadband now, four gs already giving a good service level throughout the country, five gs coming.

It is a very, very competitive proposition for customers with the total cost of ownership versus the fiber in Finland. So we would wish that there would be more demand for fiber, but and we will, of course, be eager to take all of that demand that we can in the market, if you will. So I don't know exactly and I can I wouldn't comment on the competitors' activities? Our competitors have invested in fiber already for years and so have we, and we will do. So that's all I can say about the fiber at the moment.

Your questions regarding the international services, you're asking that where do we see we have digital services reported in our reports both to consumer and corporate segment depending on to whom we are selling, the IT, for example and, for example, the Polystar, they belong to the B2B segment reporting and so does the entertainment to consumer side. Is there anything, Jari, you would add to that question?

Speaker 2

Yes. So exactly as Felimati said, so they are included in both customer segments. And then in the excels that we give, they are included in fixed and others revenue lines.

Speaker 9

Okay. Thank you very much.

Speaker 6

Thank you. And there are no further questions at this time. Please go ahead, speakers.

Speaker 4

Thank you very much to the conference call lines. Any further question from audience? No, here is silence. So we thank you participating this call and meeting and wish you a nice day. Thank you.

Bye.

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