Hello, and welcome on board on Harvia's Q3 numbers. My name is Tapio Pajuharju. I am the CEO. Next to me we have Ari Vesterinen, our CFO.
Hello, hello.
I think I will share the latest and greatest of the first nine months of Harvia, and then I will share some of the ongoing actions and activities within the group. Welcome aboard. All in all, very happy and proud to say that we had a strong growth and excellent profitability for the first nine months, and that continued on the Q3. Our top line growing extremely nicely, and on top of that, we were enjoying a very good profitability. In all of the markets and in all of the categories, and I think this is fairly rare, but we've been now experiencing this for some time. I think that's driven by the popularity of the sauna and especially the health benefits of the sauna.
At the same token, I think we confirm that north of the Alpine region, there is some advanced demand on the marketplace, and that seems to be going forward. What makes me extremely happy is that I think on the supply chain, this has been far from being normal. Maybe not the perfect storm, but not far away from that. The whole Harvia team has done an excellent job in keeping us up to date, keeping the customers happy, and delivering the numbers we've seen today. Great work, and I would like to pass my humble thanks for everyone on board. Not only limited to the Harvia core team, but also to our suppliers and to our customers in that respect. Warm thank you for everyone.
As you remember, we've been starting a fairly active investment plan, and that's going forward with almost no hiccups. We are at par with plan in all of the units. In Finland, we just got the keys last Monday for the new building. We are all going through the installations. You may remember that we will bring all the laser and punching combi machines in line in the new premise and do a bit of a streamlined layout for the whole factory. That's at par with the plan. We made a minor change in the game plan, and one of the old machinery which was about to be transferred to the new premises, we decided to sell that on the secondhand marketplace and bought a new one instead.
That's also coming in, into game, during the month of December. That's where we are with this one. In USA, as we speak, we are just installing the dust removal system. Fire protection has been increased, and the layout has been prepared. By end of the month, we should be in action in the new premises and transferring all the machinery and all the know-how and capabilities into the Lewisburg new factory of the future. During the journey, we also made some new decisions to increase the early part of the production capacity at the Driedorf factory in EOS, Germany, acquiring a new combi laser machine over there. Installation is still happening before end of this year.
The Romanian sauna factory, which we've been expanding during the journey, and especially got ready by the end of the summer. We made a decision to do an incremental premise of close to 1,000 sq m for sauna production in the Romanian facility, and that's ongoing. Will not be ready before the year end, but will be ready towards January, February in that respect. Kirami, we acquired an extremely well-oiled machine. And where they were having a bit of a lack was warehousing capacity. Now as of last month, we've been expanding the warehousing capacity by double. Now the incoming and outgoing goods are going through different channels, and we are fully prepared and can increase our operational capacity at the Kirami facility , in Sastamala as well.
On the integration plan, very happy on the onboarding of the Kirami team. Excellent professional team players over there, both on the commercial as well as on the operational side. Supply chain doing good work with our supply chain and with an excellent spirit. That’s good. Sauna-Eurox team, now we have access to the sustainable, safe, and long-lasting sauna heater stones. Believe it or not, that has been an issue in the past years. As a Harvia now we have the primary access to these type of rare resources. We have not gone through the official data of other sauna stone manufacturers. Our analysis tells that this is one of the biggest ones, if not the biggest in the industry.
We have ambition to grow together and add value to the whole industry in the sauna stones. Our EOS team has been performing extremely well, especially in the DACH region, but also in the other European markets. The team has done an amazing work, and I think that's coming through the numbers, and we'll shortly have a look at that. What was not on the bullet points, but having said the EOS team performance, have to say exactly the same on Sentiotec team in Central Europe and also in the Southern European market. They've done a good job in the last three months and the whole this year. Numbers, I'm very happy on the revenue growth, 65%, and the organic growth is good, 42%.
Slightly beating the organic growth of the same quarter last year. So good progress in that respect. Profitability, even more than double of the prior year, same period. Good work on that one. I think altogether, good direction on the profitability, and clear improvement on the prior year, quarter three. Having said that, some of you may be reading that, it's slightly less on the relative profitability than in the Q2, and I think we've been experiencing quite a big increases in some of the key raw materials. We've been addressing them, but there is some delay in the addressing of the prices, and that will come through in the months to come. So in that respect, we are in a good place.
Earnings per share EUR 0.44, good, and cash flow, solid good. I think it's good to remember that we've been increasing intentionally our buffer stocks of the key raw materials and componentry, and I would say maybe roughly half of that is organic, and then half is due to the acquisitions of Sauna-Eurox and Kirami. Those are in the game. We've been paying out all the CapExes out of our pocket. That's impacting our cash flow. I think Ari is more than happy to give you a more detailed look on this one.
For the first nine months, the same pattern, good growth, good profitability, operational profitability, a very healthy almost 27% earnings per share, EUR 1.37 and cash flow EUR 16.6 million in that respect. Net debt quite constant and static. Our gearing is now, leverage is 0.8, so we are on the mark on our long-term targets in that respect. Activity ratio healthy 41.4%, so very happy on the first nine months. What we've been doing, I think we've been keeping an eye on the ball despite the challenges in the supply chain. We've been focused on increasing the value of the average purchase.
When having a look on the split of our sales, I'm very happy to say that the premium and also the more professional models of the heaters and componentry have been selling well. Professional channel, which was almost closed during the pandemic, is now gradually opening. That's mainly applicable for the southern part of Europe, partially for the Arabian countries, and now initially also for some of the key Asian markets. Not all, but some of the markets are opening, and that's good for our professional part of the business. Sales of the complete sauna rooms have been performing extremely well, as well as our still water hot tubs. On the sauna rooms, we've been facing the limit on the available capacity, and that has been causing long lead times.
We've been able to ramp up the capacity, but having said that, the lead times are still rather long, and we've been not able to shorten the lead time, so the order book is rather strong on the sauna rooms. Sauna heater stones offering, and I think as a traditional Harvia, we've been mainly focusing on the good value for money, high-quality stones, but now we have access to the more added value products, including the heat-treated professional heater stones, decorative white stones, and round stones, and all the different grades Sauna-Eurox can offer. I think we will boost that market. This we will continue doing business with our partners and also with other people in the sauna industry.
On the geography, we've been performing extremely well on all of the markets. I think, like I said, southern hemisphere is waking up. Professional markets are gradually waking up. Not all, but some of those Arabian markets, the projects have been restarted, and they are ongoing, and they are preparing. Some of the selective Asian markets are back in business, and they are getting closer to normal. Not to normal, but closer to normal in that respect. Some of you who've been following what we've been doing on the Asian market, we've been very happy and proud to announce that we made a deal with the team Bergman, and then started.
Harvia usually doesn't do exclusive distributor partnerships, but in Japan with Mr. Seiji Kasama and Bergman, we made a deal and started opening showrooms, and now we have opened three of those. Going forward, I think next year we'll open roughly 10, 15 more. For the three years to come, the intention is to make sauna available for everyone and everybody in Japan together with the Bergman, and we'll go up to 50 showrooms throughout the Japanese marketplace. In hindsight, we are not late, but they've been passed three times now forward with the U.S. approvals of the EOS products over there. It's not because of the process. It's not because of our capability or capacity. It's because of the availability of certain electronic components. We've been forced to change the electronic components.
Every time you change the components, you go back to square one and start the process again. Still we feel confident that by year-end we should be back in business in the U.S. marketplace. I said on the investments, we've been doing more of those than we've been doing in the past. Happy to say that we are at par with the plan. We are also at budget with those ones. I think the Romania expansion and the Kirami expansion, they are well ahead. The Kirami is already done. It was a rather quick process, and the new warehouse is already erected over there. The EOS, we were just visiting the factory some time ago.
They've been preparing for the installation, and towards the year-end, the new machinery will be in place and in production. Good progress on the productivity and investment front as well. Pandemic, I think we are not out of the pandemic, as of yet. Those who follow the global marketplace can tell that, okay, we have lockdowns here and there, and they come and go. I think we'll be learning how to live on that one. In general, I think the awareness of the sauna and popularity of the sauna has been on the rise. The health benefits, especially in the U.S. and partially in the European marketplace, are clearly better known by the normal consumers, and the underlying demand remains solid.
On the same go, I think we are not away from the advanced demand. We still feel that the long-term growth rate for the years to come, maybe two to three years, will be roughly the historical performance of the sauna spa market, and maybe even double or higher than the 5% average in the past. Our ambition is to gain market share on the marketplace. We have not been, I would say, immune to the pandemic. We have had cases, but the cases have not caused any hiccups or major issues for any of our supply chain or the facilities or factories and people. All of the people have been returning to the office and factories, healthy and in good shape.
Supply chain, I think you have been educated by many companies what is happening. The same is we are facing with the same, with our excellent supply team and with our long-term partners, we've been sailing rather safe on this one. On the other hand, we've not been immune to the price increases and inflations. We've been facing those both on the raw materials, key componentry, and in the logistics. Together with a good cooperation with our partners, with our customers, we've been passing these and addressing these, going forward. We have no crystal ball, but what do we see, we feel that they're roughly the same will continue at least for the first half of next year as well.
This is not over, and we'll be learning how to swim in these type of waters. Going forward, I think we will still continue doing extra protection, playing extra safe in all of the facilities and also with our interaction with our partners and our customers. I think that's becoming a new normal in everyone's day-to-day life. Having a look on the splits, and I think this is the Q3 numbers. Finland still a strong share, but I think the relative share is going down because we've been experiencing extremely good growth on the other European markets and then especially the German market.
We have a bit of an internal joking and bet that when Germany will pass Finland and the Finnish teams says never, and the German team is very confident one day it will happen. I think jury's out, and we'll see how that's gonna go. U.S. market, still a very good share and good growth, but we'll come back on that in a second. Having a look on the product groups, heater business still roughly half of the business, but we've been growing extremely well on the complete sauna rooms, which is now including also the still water hot tubs. I think that's in a way a good indication and sign that we've been adding value for the average purchase, when selling a complete sauna room.
It's good to remember that if that's an index of 100, selling a basic heater would be an index of 10. So that's just 10% of the value of the sauna is the heater. So in that respect, doing good job. Control units, solid growth on the control units. Steam, I think gradually coming back on the growth. The rest is a mixed bag, but most important components on the mixed bag been doing also very, very good in that respect. Roughly the same picture on the first nine months. Finland strong, and then other European markets, USA and then Germany. Paying attention later when we go through the waterfalls, I think the other markets has been now doing an extremely good job going forward.
Product groups, heaters roughly they have sauna rooms and then hot tubs, and then followed by the control units, steam generators and other products, including spare parts and then services is roughly 15% of the complete business. I would say no major news on this one. Roughly following the plan we've been setting for ourselves and doing good job in that respect. Having a look on the top line and having a waterfall on the third quarter of this year. Finland, I think with the growth of 41%, I think it's evident that we're gaining share. The same in Scandinavia, and I think that's good to remember that that's an area where we are not the leading player in the sauna and spa market.
We've been now catching up for I think quite many quarters. On this one, we were catching up very well. I think we are getting closer and closer to the number one position. We are on the podium, we are on the silver medal position, but we are not happy with that. We'll go for the number one pole position as fast as we can. Germany, a very solid growth in all of the brands, Harvia, especially EOS and Sentiotec doing good job on that one. Other European markets, roughly the same. I'm happy to say that all of the three heater brands doing good, and then our sauna business doing very solid game over there. Russia, it's been a volatile journey and I think in the Russia market, never a dull moment.
In the stormy waters and then in a market which has been impacted by the pandemic a lot, in the electric heaters and the steam generator and the componentry, team Harvia in Russia has done a very good job. Even with these numbers, we've been gaining share also over there. North America, I think the summer period in general is a bit slower for the sauna business. As we've been preparing for the transition to the new factory, we've been clearly reducing the number of campaigns and the activities on the marketplace. Going forward, we anticipate to see good numbers in this respect as well. Then the other countries, when highlighting some of the Arabian markets, some of the Asian markets, a good job over there, and altogether a healthy growth.
Having the first nine months, the picture is roughly the same, and I will not go in details in that respect. We'll state what I basically said on the Q3 numbers. By the product categories, sauna heaters, which has been our stronghold. We've been doing good job on the sauna heaters and gaining clearly share. On the sauna rooms and hot tubs, an excellent work and a good performance over there. Control units, I think we've been, it's keeping in mind what type of challenges and problems we've been having with the availability of the electronics, and a good work on the team EOS, team Sentiotec, and Harvia, a good job.
Steam generators, even though the growth is maybe small in absolute numbers, in relative terms, 50% growth in residential marketplace in the steam is good, and we continue going forward on this one. Now having EOS on board, we also have good ammunition for the professional marketplace with EOS steam generators. The others developing favorably as well. First nine months, roughly the same picture, and I think I know someone may ask, "Where are you hiding the infrareds?" Infrareds are in the others. That's an area where we still are working on. We are not very happy with our performance on the infrareds, and I think our plans will deliver, but they will deliver later in that category.
Then having a look on the quarterly split of the revenue, the historical trend is so that first and fourth is the strongest one. I think there is no major change in that respect. Then on the profitability, roughly the same prevails on the profitability. Maybe just to recap on what we are doing. On the traditional Scandinavian type of a sauna, Harvia is playing a very strong, good game where the results are visible. In the steam, we are gaining speed and share in the residential market, but on the professional we are not where we would like to be.
In the infrared sauna market, yes, we've been making inroads in the infrareds in the U.S. with our upgraded offering. We've been opening doors for the hybrid, where you have both the Scandinavian sauna equipped with the infrared capabilities. In the pure infrared markets, we are not where we would like to be, and we'll continue finding our ways how to perform on the infrared as well. We'll stay loyal to our three strategic pillars for the growth in top line and profitability, so increasing the value of the average purchase, gradually increasing our geography and on market by market gaining share.
It's good to remember when opening a new market, generally they tend to be small in the beginning, but then they start the snowball effect, and the 10,000 will become 50,000, will become 100,000, will become 500,000 in the coming years. Then on the productivity and capabilities, continue our improvement over there. Then maybe just a couple of words on the new family members. Kirami are doing good job on the still water hot tubs, and I think we're learning more about their dynamics and capabilities. They've also been able to sell the accessories related to the still water hot tubs. I think that's something we can maybe learn in the other Harvia markets as well.
It's intentionally in the picture that there is not only a hot tub, but there is a sauna as well. Kirami has made very good inroads into the ready-made saunas, where you can basically lift them on a truck and lift them with a crane on your backyard. That's in a way complementing our backyard paradise. The FinVision offering of the Kirami has proven to be, I would say, traveling well in the European marketplace and maybe has some mileage elsewhere in the sauna market as well. We've been honing our plans in that respect. Sauna-Eurox, I think now we have good access to the sustainable and safe high-quality sauna stones.
Together with the Sauna-Eurox team, we can basically tell the important story of the sauna stones for the rest of the world. Especially on the value added and on the professional marketplace, we can gain speed and actually develop the whole industry together with the Sauna-Eurox team. It's a good addition to the Harvia family. I think I would like to pass the work to Ari, and Ari will share more of an in-depth analysis on the financials. Ari, please go ahead.
This quarter three has had a really tremendous growth compared to the past. For instance, the organic growth what we had now, 42%, it was about 35% a year ago. The organic growth has actually accelerated if you compare with the old interim reports. That happened also with the cumulative figures. The percentages have been higher and also, of course, than the absolute amount of money since the company is now bigger than a year ago. What has been also typical for this quarter is the much higher, better profitability than what we had, for instance, a year ago.
We have been able to pass the increased cost level to the sales prices and that has been a very satisfactory thing for the finance guys. The operating free cash flow has reduced basically on purpose since we have paid a lot of our investments, EUR 8 million altogether out of our cash resources during this nine months and also increased the net working capital. The net working capital has increased quite substantially. But I have to say that about 1/3 of the increase comes from the new companies. We have acquired two companies during this year. By the way, the acquisition prices have been also paid out of our cash resources. We have got a lot of new colleagues.
A year ago, we had less than 600 employees in the group and now 810 altogether. The return on capital, however you calculate it, is improving and is really on a nice level. Here we can see that the net debt of the group hasn't really increased even if we have been growing, investing in new companies and increasing the net debt. The cash level was still on a high to almost EUR 21 million level at the end of September. The leverage, as Tapio already said, is 0.8, so on a quite low level.
Since we don't have new interest-bearing debt, we have been able to keep also the interest cost paid cash interest cost level on the same level as the quarters before. Then the fair valuation of the swaps they change the IFRS interests a bit back and forth. As you have seen, we have had quite big investments during this year. The biggest actually until now in nine months have been in U.S. and the second biggest in Finland. In fact, we have been investing in all our production facilities to assure that we have better capacity and better effectiveness in our production.
Investments in total will be something between EUR 10 million-EUR 11 million in this year. It's really a record level for Harvia, but it pays out. We have calculated very well these investments with quite short payback period. The shareholder structure changed a little beginning of September. Our biggest domestic shareholder sold its shares. First, they went to some funds, but then quite quickly actually the household, the private investors. Biggest increase what we have had now during this year compared to last year in our shareholder structure, that's in the private investors. The share of the international investors has stayed quite on the same level, 47%, 48%, 49%.
We have got a lot of new investors during this year, and it seems to be so that this trend continues. Thank you to everybody for joining Harvia. Our long-term financial targets, they are that we target over 5% annual growth, but these are really long-term. Currently, we have a weaker pace in our sales. The profitability target is also clearly over 20% adjusted operating profit and leverage between 1.5-2.5. Now we are clearly under that. There is some reserve for investments and potential acquisitions too. The long-term dividend policy of Harvia is to pay twice a year the dividends and growing dividends.
We paid already for the year 2020 altogether EUR 0.51 in 2021, and there was also a 20-year anniversary dividend of EUR 0.12 included in that in April 2021. The second dividend installment was paid now in October, on 26th of October . Any questions, comments? Please feel free.
Now it's a good time to entertain questions and comments, so please go ahead.
Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have a question for the speakers, please press zero one on your telephone keypad. Please hold until we have the first question. The first question comes from [Melane Fallor] from Erasmus Gestion. Please go ahead.
Hello. Thank you for taking my questions. I have three, if I may. First, you said that you were able to pass on price on cost increase. Could you maybe quantify how much on average was the cost increase on in Q3 and how much of that did you pass actually on price?
Would you maybe repeat the latter part of the question? The first one I captured rather well, but the latter part I did not.
Yes. Sorry. Can we quantify, sorry, the Q3 cost increase on average, on how much of this did you pass on price? Did you pass on price the full impact of the cost increase or just some of it, and how much?
I think we are not disclosing in detail our price adjustments, but I can say that we've been able to pass it to the full. There is some time lag, and that's what I tried to explain on the margin when comparing Q2 of this year and Q3 of this year. Going forward, I think we are rather safe having no impact on this in our profitability.
Okay, thanks. You talked about EUR 10 million-EUR 11 million CapEx this year as a record year. How could we think about investment in the coming years? Is it gonna go down already in 2022 or maybe later?
I think it will be gradually going down. Most likely will not go back to the historical low levels we've been seeing while we're being a holistic company, but will not be at the EUR 10 million. If we have not made the detailed plans for 2022, 2023, but I think one can expect that it's gonna be less than 2021, and clearly less.
Okay, thanks. Maybe a more global or yeah broad question to finish. Your margins are quite higher than above 20% in this nine months. How are these margins sustainable? Is this sustainable going forward?
I think I don't see any major reason why they would not be sustainable. On the other hand, in the current supply chain dynamics and, I think we need to keep thumb on the pulse and be ready to be very agile when needed to be addressing any of these issues. We've been sailing through this storm very well, and I don't see any reason why not we could go forward with this type of relative profitability numbers. Our ambition is to gradually improve, and I think that's in a way built into the DNA of the company, so that's our ambition.
When we have acquired bigger companies in the past, the relative profitability of the acquired companies hasn't been as high as Harvia, so it has taken some time to improve the profitability to the, let's say, the Harvia level. We are really improving the profitability all the time.
Even though all of the categories have a healthy profitability, some of the categories are more healthy than the others. The mix may have an impact, but I think in general, I don't foresee any major issues with this one.
Thank you very much. That's all for me.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, let me remind you again. If you want to ask a question, please press zero one on your telephone keypad. Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. Please go ahead, speakers.
Okay, thank you. I have a long list of business and finance related questions. Let's start with the business questions. First about the Bergman's deal in Japan in October. I list a couple of questions about that, and you can then.
Okay.
Tell the story how do you handle it. How large an opportunity do you see in Japan? Why do you think Bergman is the right partner for us? What is the competition situation in Japan? Where are the risks, generally speaking, of exclusive distribution contracts?
There are actually quite many points.
Quite many points. All somehow related to this background.
We'll try to entertain all of that, and maybe even beyond. I think historically, Harvia has been selling into the Japanese market for maybe 20 years, but it's been small streams, and mainly basic equipment and some of the accessories. The number on the top line has been between EUR 20,000-EUR 50,000 and no major plan. We've been searching for a partner who could have a holistic view on the Japanese marketplace, and we've been doing this for some time. Lately, we landed on someone who could educate us on the sauna market, sauna opportunity and the consumer behavior, and had a passion to bring sauna to everyone in Japan.
I think now when we've been living the exclusivity for the very first weeks, I have to say that I very seldom have seen such a professional approach, such a dedication and such a drive to develop the Japanese market forward. I think if you may find time and Google a bit, you will find some of the TV shots and PR releases from Bergman and Mr. Seiji Kasama-san. This type of know-how and knowledge is very rare in any given market, not even in Japan. That's why we made an exception and made an exclusivity deal with Bergman and Mr. Kasama. They also nominated a sauna ambassador, and some of you may know the ski jumper who we all respect and admire.
His name is Noriaki Kasai. He's no longer a young individual. I think he's 40+. He's going for his fifth Olympics, and the way how he's been able to do that is he's enjoying sauna. Sauna has made him flexible and made him capable of doing what he's doing. In that respect, I think we are on a good journey together. We are not disclosing details of the exclusivity, but instead of tens of thousands, we are starting with hundreds of thousands, and then going for millions in the coming years. I think in that respect our ambition is clearly bigger. Understanding that the Japanese market is new to us, and even though Bergman is intimately familiar with this one, it's a learning process, and we'll take a humble approach on the learning in the Japanese market.
On the risks, I think in the risks, the Japanese electrical system and safety system and the other risk on the Japanese markets are different than in other parts of the world. They, when installing anything with an electrical equipment, earthquakes, there is a risk for earthquakes and shaking of the ground. There is a special mechanism how to address that. On the other hand, even though we deliver extremely good quality, the Japanese quality standards are beyond that.
I think we need to pay extra attention together with the team Bergman that we don't deliver 100%, but we deliver 110%, compliant equipment, both aesthetically and technically. In that respect, it's also teaching us to do better elsewhere, and I like that a lot. Competition arena, there are a couple of European competitors on the marketplace, and then there is a handful of local players, mainly on the equipment. Then the Japanese way of bathing is asking a bit of a different type of equipment. We mainly focus on the Scandinavian-style saunas for the Japanese consumers, and that's where we are very good and capable.
Okay. Thanks. How important for Harvia is building a brand relationship directly with the end consumers, generally speaking?
I think in the past that has not been a big issue. Harvia is mainly known, and it's a global brand in the B2B market. By the professionals, everyone knows Harvia. When you approach for the wealthy individuals and their projects and their advisors, architects, and designers, it's very important that we are gradually building a close relationship. I think on the rational arena, Harvia has been always very good. When it comes to the softer values, that's where we need to improve the game and get closer in that respect. Currently we play directly with the consumer with our Almost Heaven brand in the U.S. Kirami is a good indication with the consumer-only type of a brand positioning.
Harvia is a bit of a mixed bag, and especially for the Scandinavian arena, yes, we are mainly direct to consumer. Elsewhere in the world, it's more through our B2B partners. I think the importance is increasing, and we are also upgrading our game plan in that game.
There are a couple of follow-up questions still to this theme, topic. Are we collecting consumer data, and how do we use it?
That's an area where we are not systematically excellent at par. I think gradually we've been collecting data of the sauna users, their behavior, their preferences, and their visions going forward. We are not on the level like one would have seen if you are in the motorboating industry and see the way Yamaha is collecting user data from every single time you put on your engine and where you've been driving and how many minutes or hours and what speed and what is the consumption. We are not in that level as of yet, but our ambition is to get there. I think it's not happening with a snap of a finger. It will take time, and will not be for every equipment. It's more on the more premium, more professional equipment where we are going to collect the data.
Okay. One investor has heard that Harvia has been cold calling people regarding sauna maintenance, change stones, clean sauna, et cetera. Could you elaborate a bit this kind of business? What kind of future it could have in long term?
We've been piloting for some time, which was originally SaunaMax. We acquired the majority of that company maybe three years ago. Now it's Harvia Sauna Service, and we've been testing in the greater Helsinki area, and then in areas where people have a lot of holiday homes and then like Tahko, Vierumäki, Levi, Vuokatti, and these type of regions, if people would appreciate and need these type of services. I think on the first initial read of the outcome of this one is that, yes, there is. Then the question is how to do it. Should we do it alone as a Harvia, or should we try to pool for other brands together? I think that's under consideration how to do it.
The further away you go from Finland, the higher the need is. Then we've been doing these type of things together with our partners. The question is what type of role will Harvia have, or what is the role of the partner of doing? I think we will not start to do it completely alone anywhere, and I think we will do it together with our partners in most of the markets.
Couple of growth-related questions. Has the total sales growth in Germany been organic growth? I can also answer this. You know, we acquired EOS in the beginning of May in 2020. During the first four months, we have had inorganic growth still this year in Germany. The EOS business has been growing tremendously well and also our other businesses in Germany. That effect isn't so big.
Like Q3, I think it's mainly organic with the exception of couple of hot tubs from Kirami for Germany.
Yes, that's right. How much of the slowing growth in the U.S. is due to the reduced demand? Can the slowdown be explained by the moving of production facilities? Okay, we explained it already, but is there a slowing demand in the U.S.?
Not what we see and what we experience. We don't see that. On the Q3, I think we eliminated all of the campaigns and built buffer stock for being able to keep customers happy, and the order backlog is normal, if not high.
Yeah. What are the most important export countries or areas for Kirami at the moment, and what will be in the future?
Kirami is still in the works, but mainly they've been exporting to Scandinavia, U.K., Benelux. Now I think we are figuring out how to operate on the DACH area in general, and I think we will honour and then let Kirami team to do their job where they'll be very good at. We just try to help and fill in where we can with the Harvia team. What we've been now analyzing is the southern part of Europe, maybe some of the Baltic areas. We realized that in the U.S., there is already an existing still water hot tub market with the very traditional, mainly with the wooden frames and wooden tubs.
I think we can add value on this one and bring durability, easy to use, easy to maintain, and then the winterizing with our type of equipment is clearly easier than with the traditional wood-based hot tub. I think going forward, at least we are piloting the U.S. market.
What helped actually increase Harvia's sales and popularity in the past other than pandemic? It's the comment here.
Please have a look what is happening on the marketplace and see what is happening with the awareness and popularity of the sauna and how people are talking and discussing and referring and posting about the health benefits. I don't know whether there is a feature in the social media where you can go two years back or three years back. If there is, please check that. I have that in my head. I can tell that the atmosphere and the climate on the social media was very different. It's not only helping Harvia, it's helping the whole sauna spa industry.
On top of that, I think the trends where people are aging, they are gaining wealth on the middle class, upper middle class, and can spend more time, time and money for their wellbeing, and appreciate also the wellbeing and their own time and the balance of physical wellbeing and mental wellbeing. I think we have a concept which will deliver all of that.
How do you see the future sales momentum and profitability development in the U.S. compared to the previous quarters? We don't give forecasts, but some spoken comments.
I think the sentiment is good and continues being good. We are not without competition, and there is a lot of competitors on the marketplace. The infrared sauna market has been hot, is hot in the U.S. The traditional sauna market where we play is hot. I don't foresee any major changes or rapid changes in that trajectory.
Yeah. There have been also the prices of red cedar and fir, our timber, wooden materials hiking during the last months, but the prices are already going down at the moment to some extent. This is also happening on other markets for the wood. What investments level do you expect for 2021 and 2022? Okay, 2021 we already mentioned EUR 10 million-EUR 11 million, but could we give some forecast already for the next year?
2022, we are still making the plans. I cannot say on a firm number. Will be clearly less, but don't know yet how much less.
Okay. There are questions about next year's goals, and sales, and EBIT, but we don't publish them. We are actually in the process of making our budget, and yeah. Future is promising. Could you give some plans on what is going to happen w hen you get permissions to sell EOS products in U.S.? What are your next steps there, and what sort of consumers, distributors you are targeting with EOS?
Yeah. We are not in a position to disclose everything, but EOS is a luxury professional brand, and will not become available for everyone and everybody in the U.S. We have selected a handful of partners. We're gonna work with them on a direct on the upper luxury first on the professional channel, and then gradually taking it forward. I think with the anticipation for the EOS U.S. luxury market, you don't launch with a big landslide volume. You do it very almost handpicking the partners, handpicking the cases, building the references, and then it gradually starts going forward, and that's exactly what we are going to do in the U.S.
It's not only limited for the U.S. It's also going for North America, and then gradually for the Americas, but starting with the U.S., then Canada, and then the rest of the Americas.
Are you planning to produce or manufacture infrared or cabins or steam saunas in your new U.S. factory? What are those plans for the other plans for the new factory and plans to grow the infrared or steam business capacity?
On the new factory of the future in the U.S., we have currently no plans to manufacture infrared or nor steam in that facility. Elsewhere in the group, we are manufacturing steam as we speak and piloting some of the steams. Regarding infrared, maybe going forward utilizing the old facility for this type of things. Currently, there are very few players who make infrared in the U.S. As we have learned, the Almost Heaven Saunas made in U.S. is a very good argument for the local consumers. Maybe we will one day pilot that, but that's not in the plans as of yet. In general, in the infrared, yes, we've been studying the infrared market in detail.
We have made, and i f you have time, go to our Almost Heaven Saunas webpage. Check what is the current offering on the infrared, and you will see it's much upgraded from the springtime. On top of that, I think the organic path is taking us somewhere. On top of it, we've been clearly investigating what is happening on the infrared market in general. On the M&A front, we have a couple of inroads into areas where potentially we could do something. Having said that, it's also evident that the infrared, especially in the U.S., is really booming. The volumes are high. The companies are performing, and also the price expectations from the companies are maybe beyond our vision of the valuation of the company. That's where we are for the time being.
Okay. You didn't tell the purchase price for Sauna-Eurox. Can you share any thoughts for the acquisition? Are you happy with the purchase price?
I think we actually shared it in detail.
Some for Sauna-Eurox, no.
Sauna-Eurox, it was on the announcement and-
Only the annual net sales.
Okay.
We agreed with that, with the sellers.
Okay. Altogether, it was with an acceptable price for both parties, and I think we are very happy with the outcome of this.
Yeah, it really improves our sauna heater stone capacity and gives us also variety of different kind of stones and more knowledge of the sauna stones. We can improve also the story of the sauna stone. As you can see from our presentation, there are these black rocks, for instance. They are vulcanite, totally black sauna heater stones. They look nice with the new heater.
Yeah, by the way, that's a good point. It's a black vulcanite stone on that one. When you throw water on the stones, it becomes shiny black. By the way, the heater in the picture is also something new. That's our Legend pillar heater for the compact size, and that's actually coming out later in December. It was actually announced yesterday that we are coming out with this product.
How do you see the market growth evolution? For Harvia, to what extent the more than 5% annual top line growth rate should be at sustained upward given the dynamics of the market and your geographic expansion? Any indication for 2022 on top line evolution, or given the longer time lead?
I think I'm starting to sound like a parrot because I'm repeating the sa-
Yes. Okay
Same thing. Now we are in the budgeting process, but I think for the years forward, maybe one to three years forward, we anticipate that the market growth is higher than the historical 5%. Then our ambition is to gain share during that marketplace. On top of that, I think you will need to make your analysis what we are aiming at.
Okay. A question about the aftermarket sales, percentage of aftermarket sales. Probably we can tell what is the aftermarket sales for Harvia.
We don't measure that in such a respect. We measure spare parts, we measure accessories, and we measure sauna service sales. All together, currently out of my head, I cannot give you an exact figure. It's part of the others 14% and then, i t's not clear in my head to give you an exact number on this.
Okay. Could you give some insight how well has the average purchase price increased on different product groups during one to two years?
That's something we don't disclose, but I think you can do the same thing. I don't know whether you can go back in time. If you check what is available in a given retail store, for example, over here in Finland or check the availability and prices of certain products elsewhere and then measure that in the maybe two years ago, and then also check the mix of available products, and then I think you would see the difference, and the difference is substantial.
Generally, the M&A opportunities in different areas have been asked in U.S. and in other areas also. Where do you see the next steps?
I think the activity in M&A in general is on a high, good level. The same applies for sauna and spa market as well. We have been and we remain active on that one, and if a company which could fit into our offering becomes available, and the valuation is on a okay terms, then we definitely have an appetite, and we also have the capability of addressing those going forward. That's remaining on top of the organic growth one of our top priorities going forward.
Somebody is asking about any plans to expand distribution to Italy and the rest of the Southern Europe. We have been distributing through a couple of companies already.
We have actually in Italy quite a good distribution for the sauna heaters and equipment. Our distribution in the complete sauna rooms and steam. We have been expanding, and I don't see any immediate need to do big expansion in Italy. Sauna market in Italy has been on the rise despite of the pandemic, and now the professional market is gradually reopening. I think we are rather happy with the setup we have over there as we speak.
Okay. I don't have any other questions on the list. Do you have any new or on the telco line or?
There is no more questions to the audio.
Okay. Thank you for your time. Thank you for the attention, and I think we've been rather precise. We have booked one hour, and we have 45 seconds to go. We made it in time as well. Wish you a good day and all the best. Take care.
Thank you.
Bye now.
Bye.