Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Kemira's Q2 2024 Results Webcast. I'm Mikko Pohjala from Kemira's IR, and as always, I'm here today with our President and CEO, Antti Salminen, and our CFO, Petri Castrén. As you have surely seen, we've earlier today published our Q2 results with solid performance, and in the webcast today, Antti will cover the main events of the quarter, after which then Petri will cover the key financials. After that, we'll have plenty of time for your questions, so you can submit your question from the webcast tool or then via the teleconference. With these short intro remarks, I'll hand over to Antti.
Good morning on my behalf as well, and really happy to be reporting on my first full quarter as the CEO of Kemira. What a great company to work for, operating in the heart of the sustainability transition of the world, working on the water and fiber economy. So really good feeling after the first half a year, roughly, in this role. And as Mikko mentioned, happy to report steady, strong Q2 results for the business, and we're greatly advancing on the trajectory that we have defined for the company. I feel kind of very positive rhythm in the whole company.
Some highlights of the Q2 : First of all, clearly the end market demand continued to recover on both segments, most importantly in the pulp and paper, where the markets were down. Recovery is evident, which is evidenced by the volume growth. We were able to make really strong margin and cash flow, holding on to the price as well, and also started to execute with small steps on our growth strategy by investing into additional capacity, making first acquisitions on the micropollutants removal area.
So progressing pretty much as planned. If we look at some underlying factors, I'm really happy. We had another round of the customer satisfaction Net Promoter Score, which was all-time high. Employee engagement also in the latest survey stayed on a really strong level, and these are really the assets we can build the future success on.
Happy, satisfied customers, engaged employees, this is the basis that gives us confidence in long-term future strategy execution of the company. Now, if you look at the financials a bit, and Petri will, of course, dig much deeper into the numbers, but again, volume growth was continuing, and margin improvement also a very important thing. Year-on-year, both segments, margin improvement, solid cash flows, and really holding on to the prices very well in an environment where the raw materials are coming down.
So, I would say a steady, good performance for the Q2 . But if you look a little bit deeper then into the segments, so, pulp and paper, the end market recovery continued. Volume up year-on-year, 10%, significant increase and improvement there. Q2 is seasonally a low quarter in pulp and paper due to the maintenance shutdowns of customers and our own facilities, which is evidenced in the numbers.
And the price decline there was modest, but that kind of backing on the clear decline in the raw material costs, and also the comparison period in 2023 still had April, which was high energy prices and caustic, so that also impacting there. But I think the pulp and paper segment did a good job in this environment to hold on to prices and pull in this really good results.
And if you look at then I&W, which was super strong in Q2, organic growth 3%, margin holding over the 22% level, and the return on capital employed, which we are reporting on Q1, continued over 35%, so very good performance there. And clearly, we see also from the markets the regulation which is driving the water treatment chemicals demand being implemented not only in Europe but also in U.S., which will again fuel growth for the future for the water segment.
Then, as I mentioned in the start, we announced during the quarter a couple of investments, small investments into growth. First of all, expanding our coagulant capacity in Tarragona in Spain. This is on top of the tightening EU phosphorus recovery requirements, which drives the demand, and also on the biogas investments, which are driving also this demand. So clear growth drivers and thus we invest to support that growth by expanding the capacity.
We also announced the entry to the micropollutants removal market by a small acquisition in U.K. activated carbon recovery facility, which is one of the first steps to enter really into that fast-growing market. The activated carbon market for water treatment is roughly EUR 2 billion market, with over 7% annual growth rate, so really important growth area for us in Kemira.
If we then look at the overall focus areas for the rest of the year, so I think it's all about maintaining the margins, maintaining our pricing capability, and investing into growth with small, careful steps, so that we keep the fundamental good performance of company, and on top of that, create the growth that we are after. But with these words, I would like to hand it over to Petri, who will go deeper into the numbers then.
Very good. Thanks, thanks, Antti. So really, when you look at the quarter, I think three things are important. Revenues, we increased revenues again, adjusted for the oil and gas divestment. Profitability improved, both in absolute and relative terms. And like Antti was saying, we had a really nice volume growth both year-on-year, or actually more significant year-on-year, and then also on consecutive quarters. And then I will elaborate on these a little bit more.
And on this bridge, now I will focus on sort of apples to apples comparisons, so meaning for the business that after the adjusting for the oil and gas divestment. Volumes grew considerably. So as Antti already mentioned, the pulp and paper volume growth was approximately 10%. And also, I&W grew very nicely around mid-single digits. So the volume growth for the whole group was at 7%, yeah, year-on-year. The sales price declined by 6%. As Antti mentioned, caustic prices and some of the electricity prices were really impacted a year ago in April, so beginning of Q2 in 2023.
And if we exclude just the impact of caustic, then the price decline would have been 4%. And the 4% price decline is well within the sort of what we built into this year and what we have been expecting for the year, so within our expectations. And also on the profitability bridge below, you see that the EUR 52 million price decline was almost entirely offset by EUR 48 million variable cost decline.
So all in all, we didn't give up margin. So in that sense, As Antti was saying, we defended prices well, we defended our margins in this environment, where actually the variable costs were slightly decreasing rather than being just stable. Volume growth was then obviously delivering the profitability improvement and more than offsetting the fixed cost increase, resulting in EUR 7 million EBITDA improvement year-on-year, or 5%.
Some comments on volume and price development against Q1. Volumes grew very nicely in our I&W quarter-on-quarter. High single-digit quarter-on-quarter volume growth remained roughly flat in pulp and paper. Antti was talking about sort of a what I think is sort of a new seasonal trend within our pulp and paper business, that we do have some weakness, seasonal weakness in Q2, and this is driven by the maintenance breaks, both our customers as well as our own, during Q2.
The second point is that seasonally the electricity cost is typically lower in Q2, particularly here in Nordics, and that impacts the caustic and chlorate pricing, particularly here in Nordics, and that's visible in revenues as well as profitability in Q2. This is now a Q3 in a row when the impact from variable cost versus sales prices is relatively modest, and I call modest EUR 10 million or below that.
This is, of course, a type of environment which is much easier for us to manage our business. It's much easier to have the customer interaction on pricing and therefore preferable over a very volatile pricing environment or inflationary variable cost environment, which we went through a few years ago. And again, as I said earlier, the modest negative net impact was more than offset with volume growth in the business.
And again, we are expecting that volume growth throughout the year. And also, typically, I give out some type of an outlook for variable cost environments for the rest of the year, and it looks to be relatively stable for the rest of the year as well. Few comments on balance sheet. We continue to de-lever ourselves, leverage now at 0.6 turns, and an operative ROCE, return on capital employed, well over 20% average interest rate is increasing with increasing interest rates.
But if we look at actually the actual interest expense or net interest expense that we pay down, it's significantly down due to lower debt, and actually we are earning earning interest income for our cash deposits. So net finance costs were EUR 6.6 million, versus about EUR 12 million a year ago. On the balance sheet, also noteworthy that we paid out from cash resources and some short-term borrowings, the EUR 200 million bond that matured during the quarter in May, without the need to refinance it with new long-term financing.
One more thing I bring up from Antti's slides, and his first slide mentioned that the EPS was impacted by our decision to close our legal entity, Argentina. So the overall impact from closing the legal entity it was negative EUR 7 million, meaning roughly EUR 0.04 per share. Of this approximately EUR 7 million impact, EUR 2.5 million was above the line, meaning impacting EBITDA, and then the rest of it was between tax lines and financial income lines and reflecting the currency adjustment and some write-downs of assets as a result of the decision to close that legal entity.
And again, this approximately EUR 2.5 million, which is in the EBITDA line or above the EBITDA line, is an operative item impacting our operative EBITDA. Regarding cash flow, Q2 cash flow continues to be very strong. We have now generated more than EUR 200 million of operative cash flow during the first half of the year. Our CapEx follows our seasonal patterns, meaning that it is low during the first half of the year, but we expect that the full year CapEx will be approximately at last year's level or slightly above that.
On outlook, we upgraded the outlook in June, a month ago, and now we are repeating that outlook and the assumptions behind the outlook. Gradual volume recovery of our end markets is expected to continue and input costs to remain relatively stable. I think those are the key, key assumptions behind the outlook that I mentioned here. And now just repeating it, as revenue is expected to be between EUR 2.8 billion and EUR 3.2 billion, and operative EBITDA between EUR 540 million and EUR 640 million.
Finally, I'd like to sort of provide an advertisement. We have the Capital Markets Day in Helsinki on September 26th this year. Already a good number of people have registered, and we thank you, thank you for that. But I encourage, though, for those of you who are planning to attend or want to attend but haven't registered yet, please do so. We obviously want to see as many people as possible in person, but that this web, t his CMD can also be followed and attended by live webcast as well. With that, well, I think we are ready to move on to the Q&A session. Thank you.
If you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial pound key six on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Martin Roediger from Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead.
Yes, good morning, and thank you for taking my three questions, please. The first question is on pulp and paper: Can you quantify the effect from the annual maintenance breaks? Second question, again, on pulp and paper: You mentioned the sequential margin decline following seasonal patterns, and I agree that was the case in 2021, 2022, 2023, but not in the years before, for example, 2014 until 2020. What has changed in this seasonality?
And, can you provide a bit more color on that, sequential margin drop? Because you mentioned, that electricity prices being lower in the Q2 , but that is normally a relief, both, on the cost side but also on the denominator side. So maybe some clarification would be helpful on that.
Sorry, a question on your financial communication. You upgraded your guidance for this year, a month ago, but these results, you say they are good, but in this, let's say, context of this upgrade, I guess the market was hoping for more. Why did you feel under pressure for this upgrade a month ago, or in other words, why was it not possible to wait for this upgrade of the guidance until, for example, today?
So, Martin, I'll take question two and three, and I'll let Antti comment on the maintenance breaks. But I'll start with the electricity price, and when I was thinking how long I spent time on this, I was afraid that this might not be understood by everyone. So, when electricity prices started to really go high, we changed a lot of our contract pricing structure so that they have a formula element, and electricity is in that formula. Whereas before that, we used to have lots more fixed price contracts for years, because within years, the electricity price did not vary all that much.
But we sort of entered into a new environment after 2021, particularly 2022 and onwards, regarding really high electricity prices and peaking at times. And with the magnitude of renewable energy, we are sort of in this environment. So we are much more on a formula basis in our pricing. But as you know, our sourcing of electricity is very much dependent on stable nuclear power and stable hydropower. So our costing is not that volatile. So therefore, like in 2022, we benefited off high energy prices almost throughout the year, but particularly during the winter months.
So that's why this is the seasonality that has sort of emerged in the last three years or so. Hopefully that clarifies that. Then on the upgrade. So obviously, we give guidance for the full year. And then we perhaps are a little different environment here in the Nordics under the Finnish Financial Supervisory Authority versus the continental practice. But here, when we are seeing that our own forecasts do start to exceed what the guidance is, we need to give that.
That's a regulatory issue, and therefore the management needs to deal with it at appropriate time. And secondly, I think some of the analysts were sort of not understanding the rhythm and the underlying profitability of our business during Q2.
So that's why I think from the investor service point of view, I think it was also well done. And also, Martin, I sort of would like to counter that I think our cumulative EBITDA is 303, so now. So I think it's well within the sort of within what we are guiding for the full year. And therefore one quarter couple million short of consensus, if that's what you will, and I give you a half an explanation for this one-time cost in Argentina, I don't see that as a huge issue there. I'll let Antti address the maintenance breaks.
Yeah, we don't... I mean, don't give quantification of the impact, but you can probably, well, calculate it out of the numbers or estimate it. And Petri actually already kind of commented on the change of seasonality, which basically, I mean, I don't know how much sense there is looking 10, 15 years back in such a business. So basically, what has dramatically changed is the electricity pricing in Nordics, and that then impacts the seasonality because there's a seasonal variation into electricity prices.
So that's what changes. But also, there has maybe been some changes in the industry practices on how consolidated the maintenance shutdowns are on one month and so forth. So there are several impacts, but this electricity really plays a big role there.
Maybe Martin, some quantification on the... So it's single millions are that. And this is really when you have a couple weeks of non-production, so obviously have fixed costs running and no production.
The same effect actually as the strike you had in Q1, the effect?
I would need to think about that. I think the strike impact between the two quarters was more significant.
Okay. Thank you.
The next question comes from Robin Santavirta from Carnegie. Please go ahead.
Thank you, and good morning, everybody. Regarding volumes, you had really nice growth in the Pulp & Paper segment, around 10% year-on-year. I was just wondering whether you have a sort of view whether that is sort of an underlying or reflects underlying demand growth, or is there an element of restocking that number? And also, what is the order intake sort of situation at the moment going into the autumn? And this is related to Pulp & Paper. And then also in terms of volumes in the I&W, apparently quite strong Q-on-Q volume growth. Is that seasonality or is it just the market picking up?
Well, if I comment those a bit, so, pulp and paper, clear, market recovery happening. Now, it remains to be seen how strongly that continues into year. And of course, always when the markets are recovering, previously there was some destocking. There is certain restocking element in that as well. But fundamentally, like, if you looked at the, what our key customers reported after Q1, clearly the signs are there that, that there's a slow recovery in the market, and, and that's visible there.
So I would say mostly, mostly market recovery, and we are optimistic about it continuing, but, the time will tell. And, the ongoing quarter, I will not comment here regarding the order intake and, and so forth. And then if you look at I&W, volume growth, there is clear.
There has historically been some seasonality in I&W numbers. Typically, the quarters two and three being stronger than the first and last quarter. So that quarter-over-quarter sequentially, there is some impact of that natural seasonality in the I&W numbers. But the underlying markets are also quite strong at the moment, and that is benefiting us.
Yeah, Robin, I sort of
Thank you. That is clear.
I also lead you to the 5% or mid-single digits type of annual growth type of number that I was sort of indicating towards.
Yes, points out that demand is good. Another one I have, my data is related to the pricing environment. We can see sales prices coming off a bit here now in Q2. What should we expect going forward? Is it sort of the best guess that we will see a bit more sales price pressure, partly perhaps from the declined power prices? Or should we expect a stabilization?
Well, if I comment that as well, so I think it's more important to look at the margin development and keeping to holding on to the margins rather than what is the actual price levels on the markets. Because there is a significant variable cost component in our cost structure. And as Petri reported in the brief sees, what you saw in Q2, basically the decline in the variable costs and the slight decline in prices were very well balancing each other out there. So basically, that is the important thing to follow, how well can we hold on to the margins?
That is the task that we have to kind of, regardless whether the raw materials go up or down, our capability to hold on to the margins is really important here, and that we have, I think, evidenced here that we are able to do that.
And again, if I-
I understand. Thanks.
And Robin, please also look at that over the longer term. So, you'll see that in some quarters when we've been able to make significant gains, and we've been basically able to hold on to those gains and not giving those up, and I think that's the important. But look at it over the longer period of time and not just one quarter.
Yes, for sure. Thanks. And final one, if I can squeeze one more in related to M&A. I thought, Antti, I heard you say, investing growth in small steps. Is it so that, that in terms of M&A, you're rather looking at, perhaps bolt-on type of, acquisitions, or did I misunderstand?
No, you don't misunderstand. So of course, the strategy is grow, and acquisitions are one tool on the strategy. We are looking at all kinds of target that makes sense for us strategically and financially. But it is obvious that having bolt-on type of small to mid-sized acquisitions, it is easier to manage, and the risks are smaller. And thus, kind of, keeping the good performance and then adding via these bolt-ons is the kind of, at least to me, the prioritized strategy.
But we are at the same time looking at more sizable targets as well as we have the financial capability to do that. But, those are, of course, you know, typically take longer to materialize and so forth. So you should expect to see more of these smaller, medium-sized, bolt-on acquisitions coming online.
Thank you very much.
Maybe we'll take a couple of questions from the webcast. So, quite a few questions. Maybe a couple of questions on the revenue side. So, they're both, in essence, the same. "So revenue trend is negative, what gives you confidence for late 2024, 2024 and early 2025, can we expect higher revenue growth?
Well, I like to correct, and of course, it's very difficult to look at our numbers because our first primary statement is clearly a reporting negative revenue trend. But if you adjust for the oil and gas divestment, for the divested business, the underlying business that we have is growing both volumes, it's growing also profits year on year. So in that sense, I think there's a correction to the question setting.
So yes, we are in the growth mode. Do we want to grow faster? Absolutely, we want to grow faster. And we are looking at how can we find opportunities to grow in this market faster, both organically and also look at some of the inorganic opportunities that may arise.
Good. Let's, okay, let's continue. We already touched upon M&A with, with Robin, but then the follow-up question, would consider doing M&A in the second half of this year and what kind of targets? So maybe a recap of what we are looking at, Antti.
Yes. But what drives the potential M&A is our strategic growth priorities. And then the number one priority is in the water area. And we've been talking about this earlier that basically we are looking for synergistic businesses where either we are serving the same customer base or then we can expand the technologies, chemistries we have to new customer applications and these kind of acquisitions.
So either kind of expanding our reach in the water segment to some areas which we don't serve today within the water domain. Or then, if it would be outside of water, then there would need to be some product line tech manufacturing technological synergies.
So actually, the kind of space in which we are looking, which suits our growth strategy is relatively wide. So kind of close to what we are doing. There are a lot of different type of opportunities. And of course, it's impossible to comment anything on, you know, when the next one would be coming. So we are working on those constantly.
There is a continuation to this. What could be a new business area that could possibly show unexpected growth potential in the foreseeable future? Any examples? Maybe a short update, what is happening on the renewable strategy side.
Well, yeah, I mean, a couple of examples. One was this first small step entering into the activated carbon market and the micropollutant removal. So as I mentioned, that water treatment activated carbon market is growing 7% to 8% a year, which is significantly higher than any of the traditional underlying markets that we are serving. On the renewable space, we are looking at. And we've been talking about working on fully bio-based, biodegradable barrier solutions for the packaging industry.
And these are the type of applications which once they are technically and commercially feasible to go into market, the expectation, and that's not only our expectation, you can look at the packaging, the paper and board industry and their expectations. The expectations are really high because what we are talking about there, it is plastics replacement, and that's really important for the whole world. So basically, that's another example of the area that we expect that, in the midterm we'll have really high growth numbers.
I'll continue with one more. If the Pulp and Paper segment demand goes sour, do you have other replacing demand to fill in to maintain sufficient revenue levels? Is there a backup plan in place? Maybe to correct, we expect the Pulp and Paper market to grow, so that is our base case assumption.
I think that's, that's really the correction there. So basically, pulp and paper market went sour a year ago. I mean, that was the biggest crisis in 20 years of the history of the industry, kind of a really big drop down in demand. And now the market is in the recovery phase. And, pulp and paper market is not as cyclical as maybe some of the other markets, but there is some cyclicality and now we are in the upcycle. So, there's no such an expectation that or fear at the moment that there would be something drastic happening on the demand side.
Yeah. Longer term, I like to mention what we don't see as a replacement, but rather, rather as an additional growth area, is that we believe in sustainable textiles. The sustainable textiles, meaning both fiber-based textiles as well as textile recycling, has been perhaps had more technical and commercial challenges than, than people thought a few years ago. But over the long term, there is a mandate, there's a high consumer demand, high, there's a high regulatory demand for to, to improve the sustainability of the, of the whole textile industry, and therefore we believe in that.
And many of the same technologies or same, same chemistries that we are currently providing to our traditional, sort of forest products companies, is applicable in the textiles. Whether it's the bleaching, bleaching chemistries or strength chemistries, those same chemistries apply for that. And we see that as, not as a replacement market, but as rather actually as, as a adjacent growth market that is still very difficult to quantify and difficult to say when it will emerge, in big time.
And one more question from the tool, then we can go to the teleconference, and this is related to bleaching pricing. So on electricity prices and pricing formulas, are the formulas set for realized electricity spot prices or, for example, on rolling average electricity prices? Maybe a high-level answer here, Petri.
High level, it's spot prices, and depending on the contract, whether it's. Typically, it's monthly spot prices. Yeah, high enough.
Good. Then we go to the teleconference.
The next question comes from Andres Castanos-Mollor from Berenberg. Please go ahead.
Hello. Thank you very much for taking my questions. I had some on M&A, but I want to also ask another one on pensions. So on M&A, just briefly, a little bit more information on expected revenue synergies from plugging these small assets into your into your platform. How much can we expect to see the revenues of a target company grow? And then on pensions, can you give us a sense of the size of the pension port and how much excess capitalization is there? And in terms of cash flows to the company, how much can we expect to see and when? Thank you.
Shall we start from the acquisition first?
Okay.
Okay, so again, I mean, it really depends on the target, but if you talk about these kind of small, really small, bolt-on type of things, like the one that we did now, I mean, these are typically like they're adding maybe EUR 10 million or in that range, EUR 15 million into our revenues. And then typically we target them on the areas where the growth rates are then much higher than our underlying growth rate.
So that would be maybe kind of putting a bit more around that. But as I mentioned earlier, we are also working on clearly some more sizable ones. So basically there's kind of a wide range of what would be added. But the common denominator then always being that we are looking at those on high growth areas.
Okay. There was some static on the line. If I heard correctly, the second question on pension, it was about pensions?
Yes.
So, first of all, in Finland, we are, we're mostly pay-as-you-go or benefit plans. We do have one supplement, benefit, benefit plan that was closed to new members, 33 years ago in 1991. So, there we have actually a surplus. Last time we contributed funds to that fund, I think it was 2006. Since then, investment returns have been able to maintain that, and it has roughly EUR 100 million of excess capital surplus at the current time. And we have said that we, as time goes, we expect to return that capital.
Now, obviously, we want to maintain sufficient cushion. So this 100 million excess capital will not be or can and even cannot be immediately returned. So I think this year we returned EUR 12 million or so, last year, maybe EUR 15 million. So that's the type of annual capital receipts that one can expect from that fund. And then we have some pension funds in countries, in U.K. and some other countries, but those are really not material in the scheme of things.
They are detailed, Andres, in the financial statements, if you want to have a look.
I guess I understood your question correctly and answered it correctly.
Thank you. Very well.
The next question comes from Henri Parkkinen, from OP Yrityspankki. Please go ahead.
Yes, first of all, good day for everyone. I had a question regarding the maintenance activity, which already was discussed earlier, but just more or less fine-tuning question. And in addition, what you said about the pulp and paper seasonality. So, during the Q3 , so if we compare Q3 to Q2 , what do you expect regarding your maintenance activity? Are we talk about some couple of million EUR, or how should we think about this season and the pattern of maintenance costs over the year? Thank you.
Henri, if I would rather say that there's always some maintenance, so one should always expect there to be some maintenance. So, one should not think about the impact where, against no maintenance cost, because that's sort of theoretical and possibility even for. But we rather say that if there is a heavier concentration of maintenance breaks, so the heavier than on average. And that's why we pointed out that Q2 is seasonally heavier. And actually, on this year, it was also.
We had a longer maintenance breaks in Olkiluoto, in the nuclear power facilities. So those were additional impact on Q2. And so that's what I'm referring to. I don't think I don't like to point out any number on Q3, because Q3 should not be exceptional from that sense from that sense.
Yes. Thank you. Very helpful. The background was that if your customers are, let's say, behaving a little different than now compared to past history, just to get the idea that, if there might be, from your point of view, some seasonal, some significant, difference between third and second. But, yes, that's very helpful. Thank you.
Yeah. And I think we, first of all, we don't know our customers' unscheduled or extra maintenance breaks. And even if we did, I think it's appropriate that they talked about them then, rather than us.
Yes, that makes sense. Thank you. Thank you.
The next question comes from Tomi Relo from DNB. Please go ahead.
Hi, this is Tomi from DNB. Just a clarification on the closure of the entity in Argentina. Did you say that in the clean EBITDA or operative EBITDA in the Q2 , the impact was EUR 7 million or EUR 2.5 million?
EUR 0.5 million on EBITDA, and then what is it? About EUR 4 million, slightly more than EUR 4 million under the, below the line, and that was spread between finance and tax items. So EUR 2.5 million was the impact on operating costs.
Okay. Second, just a clarification also, what did you talk about the industry and water pricing and volumes in the Q2 ? Volumes, I think you said, up mid-single digits.
I think I said that volumes consecutive quarters were up high single digits, year-on-year, mid single digits in terms of volumes.
And prices?
Prices, I mean, they were slightly down. The four percent, which I offered as a proxy for the group, I don't think there's a whole big difference between the segments. There may be some, but not a big difference. So I think that 4% is pretty good proxy for both segments year-on-year. And we said that the price decline was—there was some slight price decline, Q-on-Q as well. But the 4% for annual price decline is, I think it's a more reflection on what we are sort of seeing in the market.
All right. Thank you.
There are no more questions from the teleconference, neither from the webcast, too. This concludes the webcast. Thank you for the questions. With this, we wish you a very nice summer and hoping to see you all at the CMD end of September. Thank you.
All right.
Thank you.
Thank you.