Kemira Oyj (HEL:KEMIRA)
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Earnings Call: Q2 2022

Jul 15, 2022

Mikko Pohjala
VP of Investor Relations, Kemira

Good morning everyone and welcome to Kemira's Q2 2022 results webcast. My name is Mikko Pohjala from Kemira's Investor Relations, and with me here today I have our President and CEO, Jari Rosendal, as well as our CFO, Petri Castrén. Earlier today, we published our interim report for January, June, and we reported record high revenue and operative EBITDA. For the webcast today, we will very first hear a short update from Jari and then Petri, and then we'll go to your questions after that. You can present your questions either via the webcast tool or then via the teleconference. With this, I'll hand it over to Jari.

Jari Rosendal
President and CEO, Kemira

Okay. Good morning. Thanks, Mikko. Welcome from my side also. We had a strong first half of the year, and demand was good in all areas. Demand stayed good during Q2 also. Good to note in Q2, typically is a time for maintenance shutdowns by our customers and our own sites, and so it did this Q2 also. Inflation continues to be high. Energy prices are high. We have seen some early signs of pricing flattening in some raw materials, but very hard to yet say how this will continue. Sales prices are catching up with higher variable costs, but as you can see from our margin, we are not there yet catching up. Still a good H1 under these conditions.

As a summary for Q2, again, a record high revenue and operative EBIT, as Mikko said. Our bio-based strategy is progressing as planned. We formed a new growth acceleration unit, commercial unit, a task force meant to accelerate the bio-based and other adjacent businesses that we are driving so that people don't do it part-time, they do it full-time in this team, and that will be up and running late this year or next year. We also committed to SBTi climate targets and our exit from Russia, which we discontinued deliveries first of March and then announced in May that we will exit, is progressing well.

In early June, we upgraded also our outlook for the full year as the year has started well. Let's look at quickly the financials for Q2, main financials. Revenue EUR 861 million organically up 24% compared to last year. Operative EBIT EUR 122 million with a 14.2% margin. Sales price increase is compensating mostly for raw material increases, but we still have catch-up to do. Some formula pricing is lagging behind as input costs continue to go up, even if the formula follows, but it follows with a delay, especially this is seen in energy. Earnings per share EUR 0.29 for the quarter and EUR 0.56 for the first half of the year.

The segments on pulp and paper, a strong quarter, even if most of our business in Russia was pulp and paper business, and we have none of that business practically at all in Q2. Demand was good for more customer segments. Volumes came slightly down mainly to the Russian exit. There was also April still a customer strike here in Finland. Higher sales prices are going in and we are also working on contract mechanisms and pricing check intervals so that we can react faster or go to formula type of pricing. Pulp and paper revenue EUR 488 million for the quarter and operative EBIT EUR 74 million with 15.1% margin, which is good outcome in this situation.

On the Industry & Water side, they did also well under the circumstances. Oil and gas continuous recovery, more work needed. Our water business is very strong. Municipal water market is strong and industrial also very strong. Those are really our backbones of business on top of bleaching, for example, in our pulp and paper side. Oil and gas shale market continue to recover, but considering over $100 oil barrel price, shale market recover slower than we had originally estimated. Margins are not there where we want to see them, but going to the right direction. Organic growth 26% driven by sales prices and volume was stable.

Revenue for the quarter EUR 374 million and operative EBIT just under EUR 49 million with 13% and diluted a bit by oil and gas. We are working to catch up with inflation and improving the oil and gas volume and utilization and pricing. I mentioned the SBTi, and we are now committed to reducing to the 1.5 degrees and do it in Scope one and two by 2030. Our previous target was to reduce emissions by 30%, but going from two degrees to 1.5, it did increase to 50%, and we did a thorough study and have a clear plan how to get there.

We're also developing Scope three and target to meet the same, but the SBTi organization has not given any guidance to the chemical industry sector on how to calculate the Scope three, so we're following that and developing as we go on the raw material side. Our ambition remains to be carbon neutral by 2045. Finally, our focus areas from my side going forward, working to mitigate the inflation pressures following the war in Ukraine and particularly related energy and value chains. We are now quite far along in solving those type of issues from Russia and Belarus. Ensure delivery reliability in the volatile market environment. Focus on the profitable growth and continue to progress the bio-based strategy.

We need operational agility in order to capture opportunities and react to the ongoing fast changes that we see in the operating environment. We continue to construct the new capacity expansions, ASA sizing in China and bleaching in Uruguay. My short comments here and I'll ask Petri to come and shed more light on the financials. Petri, please.

Petri Castrén
CFO, Kemira

Thank you, Jari, and good morning to everyone from me as well. Second quarter was largely a continuation of the trends that we saw already in Q1, and these trends and some of the key points I'll now cover. Those are the strong inflationary trend that Jari mentioned impacting raw materials, but also our ability to mitigate that with price increases. Energy costs globally high, and obviously now in Europe there is some concern about even availability of natural gas going forward. Then I'll cover our Russian situation. Our exit from Russia in general is progressing very well. As Jari mentioned, impressive headline of 31% growth and an organic growth at 24.4%.

Volumes declined by approximately 5%, mainly, as Jari mentioned, because of the exit from Russia that we implemented already in March, and then to some smaller extent because of the customer strike here in Finland. Quite strong currency impact as the Euro weakness against US dollar is the main driver behind the 7% positive FX impact. EUR 152 million of variable cost increase year-over-year, huge number, but obviously, we've been able to offset that quite well, and that's key to our financial performance in Q2 with our EUR 188 million of price increases.

Basically that means that price increases are in the range of 30% year-on-year, but still we have seen raw material increase in the range of 40%, or variable cost increase in the range of 40%. We have still some work to do, obviously this is the driver for a dilution of our EBITDA margin, now at 14.2% for the quarter. Energy cost alone increased EUR 30 million year-on-year, although some of that we are able to offset with formula pricing that we have with our customers. Energy cost we also are seeing increasing on a quarterly consecutive basis. Six million was the positive impact from the FX as strong US dollar is beneficial to us.

These graphs are quite dramatic as they illustrate the unprecedented variable cost inflation that we have experienced during the last 12 months or so. Inflation continued and in fact, it actually accelerated during Q2, as we predicted in our Q2 call. Cost increases, if you look at the whole full year or last 12 months, four quarters add up to EUR 433 million, which is almost exactly the same what we have been able to get through price increases on a last 12-month rolling basis, again explaining the margin dilution as the drop through margin of this price increase is zero. Typically, I also, at this point, give some indication of how we see the near term future regarding these costs. Now it's a bit more mixed picture.

As Jari mentioned, we see some raw materials perhaps peaking. It's difficult to estimate, but certainly for example, oil has now come down from its peak. Although there are still some raw materials which are continuing to peak. Energy costs we see as increasing in the second half of the year, perhaps at a faster rate than the raw material basket, otherwise. Net-net, we see the variable costs continuing to increase in Q3 and the second half of the year. Perhaps the increase is moderating from the first half, and particularly from the Q2 rate of more than 10% per quarter. Few comments on our balance sheet. Our net working capital continued to grow primarily because of higher inventories and accounts receivables.

Inventory value has obviously increased because of the pricing impact, meaning that the raw materials are now worth more than we have in our possession, and also the stronger US dollar has impacted here. We have also increased our inventory volumes. This is a conscious decision so that we are better able to serve our customers when we are seeing supply chain disruptions across the board in many areas. We have also had to resort to some spot purchases when raw material availability through our contracted sources has been either limited or constrained. That has been increasing inventories and impacting net working capital. Longer shipping times for intercontinental cargos as well.

High electricity price is driving up the valuation of our energy assets. Kemira's share ownership in Teollisuuden Voima, TVO, and Pohjolan Voima, PVO, were revalued during the quarter, and we're using this discounted cash flow method and resulted in an increase of EUR 141 million. Quite a significant increase. Also, the value of our electricity hedges, these are the type how we hedge our electricity purchases over a period of time here in the Nordics, was increased by EUR 75 million during the quarter. As the electricity prices have increased, over EUR 200 million valuation increase of these assets indicates the value of our backward integration to electricity production, as well as the value of our electricity hedging program. Obviously, these increases are reflected in balance sheet only and do not have any P&L impact.

Cash flow. Cash flow was impacted, like I said, from the net working capital buildup. Also, I'd like to sort of remind that typically we are seasonally impacted it, so typically the first half of the year is weaker from cash flow generation, and we do generate most of the cash flow during the second half of the year. CapEx running roughly at last year's level, and we expect it the full year, we will be within our guidance, where we guided at the beginning of the year, approximately 6% of revenue, excluding possible M&A impact. Regarding Ukraine war and our direct exposure to Russia, it is very limited, pretty limited and now well-defined.

Like I said, business was stopped in March and now most of our products are sanctioned, so we can't even export them to Russia. We have wound down our business in Russia, and now our net assets in Russia consist mainly of cash. Still some receivables, maybe a little bit of customer equipment, and the cash now adds up to about EUR 11 million there. It's fair to say that the near-term repatriation of those funds is difficult. Indirectly, obviously, the biggest impact is felt through high cost and availability risk to energy. Obviously this war is triggering and the inflation that we are seeing here in Europe.

Outlook, we increased on June 8th for the year, and the new outlook, which we are now repeating, is that both revenue and operating profit will increase from 2021 levels. Previous outlook indicated that the profitability would be approximately at the same level as in 2021. It's still worth pointing out the uncertainties listed in the assumptions page or assumptions part of the outlook, mainly that we are assuming that there will be no major disruptions for the manufacturing operations or further significant supply chain disruptions, whether it's on the customer side or on the supply side. We assume that the normal energy availability in Europe will continue. Inflationary pressures are expected to continue through 2022. Finally, a capital markets reminder. We will host a capital markets day in London on September 13.

We will start in the morning 'cause we noticed that there's a sort of competing or another valuation event in the afternoon. This should now allow people to participate, and we hope as many people as possible will participate there. With that, we're ready to move to the Q&A session. Operator, please.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, if you have a question for the speakers, please press zero one on your telephone keypads. Our first question comes from the line of Martin Roediger of Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Martin Roediger
Senior Equity Research Analyst, Kepler Cheuvreux

Hello. Good morning. Yeah, thanks for taking my question. I have a couple, sorry for that. Jari, you mentioned flattening of some raw materials, and Petri, you talked about oil price peaking. Which raw materials do you see flattening?

Jari Rosendal
President and CEO, Kemira

Well, some of the oil derivatives have come slightly down or flattened, acrylic acid, acrylonitrile, especially in North America. So it's spotty here and there, but for the first time now, really in June, we've seen some of this effect.

Martin Roediger
Senior Equity Research Analyst, Kepler Cheuvreux

Okay. Petri, you mentioned perhaps a moderating in variable costs, so energy costs further rising but some raw material costs easing, and you mentioned a 10% per quarter figure. What do you mean with this 10% figure?

Petri Castrén
CFO, Kemira

Meaning what I said, that basically during the quarter, our variable cost basket increased by 10%.

Jari Rosendal
President and CEO, Kemira

From Q1 to Q2.

Petri Castrén
CFO, Kemira

On constant volume. I mentioned it was over 10%. I also mentioned that year-on-year we've seen a 40%. This hasn't been exactly the same in each quarter. Probably the last quarter was one of the faster, the one we saw the faster increase in the variable costs. That's what I was referring to, that it was more than 10% variable cost increase in one quarter alone.

Martin Roediger
Senior Equity Research Analyst, Kepler Cheuvreux

Okay, regarding the gas availability and also gas prices, in particular in Germany, I know you have some operations, i.e., in Dormagen, for example. Will your site be critical for the infrastructure, in Germany and thus may get some prioritization in supply of natural gas?

Jari Rosendal
President and CEO, Kemira

Well, you mentioned Dormagen, so that's water treatment coagulants. I assume that we will get some priority there. Germany and EU is at the moment planning these things on how they prioritize if they have to prioritize. About the gas, I don't see us so hugely exposed. Of course, we are somewhat exposed. We are more exposed through our suppliers and potentially our customers, so that the customers cannot run either because of lack of gas or high prices of gas, and the same then for our suppliers. On the supplier side, the risk is the biggest.

Martin Roediger
Senior Equity Research Analyst, Kepler Cheuvreux

Okay. Staying with Dormagen, are you concerned about the low water level of the Rhine River causing eventually the same headaches we had four years ago when it comes to transportation via the Rhine?

Jari Rosendal
President and CEO, Kemira

Yes, following it, not much we can do about it except the rain dance. Yeah, that's one other thing that if Ludwigshafen doesn't get crude in and product out and these type of things, so then that's a logistics issue on top of potential gas issues.

Martin Roediger
Senior Equity Research Analyst, Kepler Cheuvreux

Do you or your customers need cooling water from the Rhine River for the production?

Jari Rosendal
President and CEO, Kemira

We don't. Certainly our customers do, and our suppliers.

Martin Roediger
Senior Equity Research Analyst, Kepler Cheuvreux

Thank you.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Anssi Kiviniemi of SEB. Please go ahead.

Anssi Kiviniemi
Head of Sustainability, SEB

Thank you. It's Anssi Kiviniemi from SEB, and thank you for the presentation. About volumes, I think you said that the group level volumes came down 5%, and this was coming from pulp and paper, and the main reasons were exit from Russia and UPM strike. Did we see the full impact of Russia exit already? And, how should we think about Q3 and H2 this year?

Jari Rosendal
President and CEO, Kemira

We've exited Russia. We, during March and April, didn't export anything to Russia anymore. We had some local inventories and those have been practically emptied now. This would be the run rate going forward. One thing I forgot to mention in my talk is that also the lockdown in China is something that is a third component in the volumes. There's a lot of industries. People stayed home for 75 days in the Shanghai area, and a lot of industries were down.

Mikko Pohjala
VP of Investor Relations, Kemira

Russian business last year, if you think about euros, was roughly EUR 70 million-EUR 80 million on an absolute basis last year.

Anssi Kiviniemi
Head of Sustainability, SEB

Okay. Thanks. If I continue on this gas price and availability topic, have you heard anything from your customers, like are they reacting already somehow or what is the breaking point here? Not the easiest question, but.

Jari Rosendal
President and CEO, Kemira

We do see some curtailment in Southern Europe because of gas prices and availability, not material to us and short periods, but avoiding gas spikes and probably thinking on what inventory levels they have. It's individual board machines that we have heard of.

Anssi Kiviniemi
Head of Sustainability, SEB

Have you heard anything like that, at this end, at this point we would like to halt our production or anything like that?

Jari Rosendal
President and CEO, Kemira

Um, most-

Anssi Kiviniemi
Head of Sustainability, SEB

Like in a bigger scale.

Jari Rosendal
President and CEO, Kemira

Most companies are public companies, so they don't come out with those type of things until they do it.

Anssi Kiviniemi
Head of Sustainability, SEB

Okay. Maybe the last one from me about oil and gas activity. You said that the activity was maybe surprisingly weak during Q2 and volumes actually declined. How do we or how do you see the situation going forward and how should we think about that?

Jari Rosendal
President and CEO, Kemira

Well, we're trying to now push volume further because we have the new line and the underutilization and then low volumes. I mean, you need to optimize that. We were anticipating a higher demand because of the spike of the oil price. At least, so far it has increased, but maybe not as much as we hoped for. Let's see how the future then develops. Certainly, U.S. needs that oil and gas because imports from outside is tough as you've seen from the news.

Anssi Kiviniemi
Head of Sustainability, SEB

Okay. Thank you. That's all from me.

Mikko Pohjala
VP of Investor Relations, Kemira

Question here in between from the webcast tool since it's related to the topic we just discussed. Jari, can you elaborate more on the margin of I&W? To what extent is this drop in margins linked to oil and gas?

Jari Rosendal
President and CEO, Kemira

Well, we don't wanna give that out and help competition. Like I said, oil and gas was a diluting factor in the margin for I&W.

Mikko Pohjala
VP of Investor Relations, Kemira

Good. Actually one more question from the webcast tool. This is related to our climate target. Our aim is to be carbon neutral by 2045. Is there a particular reason for such a slow timetable?

Jari Rosendal
President and CEO, Kemira

2030 Scope one and two neutral, that's no mean feat what we can do. We have the issue that Scope three for chemical industry is harder to come to grips. Our suppliers can't even yet give their footprint to us, so it takes time for developing that. Plus SBTi needs to also give the guidance on how these things are calculated for the chemical industry which they're in the works of doing but haven't done yet. Our issue is southeast U.S. where we consume a lot of energy for the bleaching products and it's electricity and there is not that much ongoing yet of decarbonizing that electricity supply. That's why we need to give it a bit of time.

Obviously, if that speeds up then we can move the 2045 forward.

Mikko Pohjala
VP of Investor Relations, Kemira

Thank you. We can go back to the line operator please.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Robin Santavirta of Carnegie. Please go ahead.

Robin Santavirta
Equity Research Analyst, Carnegie Investment Bank

Thank you very much. I have a question related to the recent development of business. Looking at your H1 numbers they are really strong especially when it comes to the absolute level of earnings. What is the most recent sort of indications from customers about demand and business activity? We hear about potentially a bit weaker sort of general economic activity now towards the end of the summer and maybe going into the autumn. Have you seen anything like that or is the indication still strong for customers and any sort of differences between your key markets.

Jari Rosendal
President and CEO, Kemira

At least our Nordic customers have indicated that demand at least short- to midterm seems to be very strong. Obviously, they're very competitive players too. Let's see what they say when they come out with their Q2. Like I said, some curtailment now seen in Southern Europe, Italy, Southern Germany, because of gas prices or some other reasons. They haven't been articulated, but certainly gas price is one thing. If you think of a board machine, the drying end is run with gas. That's the situation. Our water business is very resilient compared to anything else. You can compare 2020 and spring of 2020 how that hardly went down.

Some softness in the industrial water treatment side, but the legislation doesn't let you not treat water. If it comes in, you have to treat it. That's resilient. I'd like to point out that we're consumable in the customer process. If they produce, they need our product or our competitor's product. They cannot produce without these products. I see our customer base, pulp and paper, water treatment as a resilient side. Not really indications of yet, but let's see how it goes forward. Certainly, it's a really hot market now, maybe some cooling down might be a bit good.

Robin Santavirta
Equity Research Analyst, Carnegie Investment Bank

I understand. Thank you. Still one question related to the gas situation. How would you consider your position when it comes to the competitors? Do you have an advantage or a disadvantage, when it comes to your largest competitors, if we will run into a situation where there will be sort of gas allocation in Europe?

Jari Rosendal
President and CEO, Kemira

I don't think we have a disadvantage or an advantage. Here in the Nordics, we use already LNG quite a bit and so on. To go to that detail, we don't have that data.

Petri Castrén
CFO, Kemira

If I may continue on that.

Robin Santavirta
Equity Research Analyst, Carnegie Investment Bank

Thank you.

Petri Castrén
CFO, Kemira

Robin, if I may continue from there.

Robin Santavirta
Equity Research Analyst, Carnegie Investment Bank

Go ahead.

Petri Castrén
CFO, Kemira

I pointed out to the revaluation of our electricity assets because of our backward integration to electricity production as well as our hedging portfolio. I think there we clearly have an advantage over some of our competition because of that.

Robin Santavirta
Equity Research Analyst, Carnegie Investment Bank

I understand and agree. Finally, just, Petri, you touched upon sort of still a bit of a headwind when it comes to variable costs, perhaps related mostly to energy. I guess we can assume that there's still some tailwind then from sales prices Q on Q in Q3 sort of offsetting to some extent, the higher variable costs.

Petri Castrén
CFO, Kemira

Yes.

Robin Santavirta
Equity Research Analyst, Carnegie Investment Bank

Or how should we-

Petri Castrén
CFO, Kemira

Yes. Our efforts to mitigate the inflationary pressures absolutely continue, and particularly on the water treatment side, where we have perhaps some weakness in the margins. Clearly there we have more of these annual contracts which are sort of trailing and as they are being renewed, they're being renewed at higher prices. Yes, absolutely it will continue there.

Robin Santavirta
Equity Research Analyst, Carnegie Investment Bank

Good. Thank you very much. That's all.

Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Harri Taittonen of Nordea. Please go ahead.

Harri Taittonen
Senior Equity Research Analyst, Nordea Markets

Yes. Good morning, all. On the, you mentioned that you have kind of shortened the contract length and sort of improved the sort of speed for sort of adjusting pricing to the rising costs. I think we have talked about it a bit before as well, that if costs start to decline, I mean, is it then so that perhaps the prices will not hold as much as they have done in the previous cycles when costs have turned down from the peak? Or is it too early to comment on that?

Jari Rosendal
President and CEO, Kemira

Well, there are different mechanisms. Well, in principle, that's the case. It's a win-win with the customer that they accept faster price increases, but then they don't have to hang on too long with them. There's always.

Harri Taittonen
Senior Equity Research Analyst, Nordea Markets

Yeah

Jari Rosendal
President and CEO, Kemira

a time delay.

Harri Taittonen
Senior Equity Research Analyst, Nordea Markets

About the volume loss, I mean, perhaps a stupid question, but I mean, is there any part of that sort of 5% that you could compensate for, kind of finding markets elsewhere or transferring? Or is it simply out, so that we should look at Q2 as the starting point for the new available kind of capacity?

Jari Rosendal
President and CEO, Kemira

When it comes to Russia and the UPM situation is obviously over.

Harri Taittonen
Senior Equity Research Analyst, Nordea Markets

Of course. Yeah.

Jari Rosendal
President and CEO, Kemira

That's not the 5%, but that's in the 5%. That's a net because we have found some other outlets for those products that travel well.

Harri Taittonen
Senior Equity Research Analyst, Nordea Markets

Okay. Then finally on the, I mean, interesting, we talked about this as well before, but the CapEx guidance, I mean, look at 4% of sales versus 5% last year up to this point of the year, and you indicate 6% of sales and sales are sort of increasing by 30%. Is it, is there something in the CapEx side that sort of is following the sales inflation or. It seems that it's a bit sort of back-end loaded CapEx anyway, but fixing it to sales with such high increase in sales prices, is it so that CapEx really follows the sales?

Petri Castrén
CFO, Kemira

Harri, first of all, if I'm not sure if I heard the percentages correctly. Last year, CapEx to sales was about 6%. In the first half of the year

Harri Taittonen
Senior Equity Research Analyst, Nordea Markets

Yeah

Petri Castrén
CFO, Kemira

We are below that. As you rightly noted, our CapEx tends to be back-end loaded, so second half and even fourth quarter loaded. Yes. I think last year, now off memory, CapEx excluding M&A was something like EUR 170 million. The 6% at the beginning of the year was already perhaps indicating, and we were already seeing that the revenues will increase, was indicating a higher CapEx than last year. Still, as a lower percentage, 'cause if you look at past years, we have had 7, 8% of sales going into CapEx. Having said, obviously the inflationary trends that are impacting our business is impacting our CapEx as well.

Steel and that you need to build new pipes is more expensive than it used to be. It doesn't necessarily follow the sales. Yes, we are seeing inflationary trends for our CapEx projects as well.

Jari Rosendal
President and CEO, Kemira

Yeah, Harri.

Harri Taittonen
Senior Equity Research Analyst, Nordea Markets

Yeah. Yeah

Jari Rosendal
President and CEO, Kemira

there are other factors also. There are delays and availability issues, shipping delays.

Harri Taittonen
Senior Equity Research Analyst, Nordea Markets

Yeah

Jari Rosendal
President and CEO, Kemira

It's a timing issue also. We are managing our projects also. Some projects will not be started this year, which we plan to start this year. Talking about smaller projects, maintenance and improvement type of things.

Harri Taittonen
Senior Equity Research Analyst, Nordea Markets

Okay. I wanna finally maybe on a more strategic level then thinking about the sort of investment environment and CapEx outlook, say after the two lots of projects that you're now working on. How does it look? Does the, for example, the sustainability targets or sort of where do you see the openings for new sort of CapEx projects beyond the already known projects?

Jari Rosendal
President and CEO, Kemira

Well, the bio-based certainly will be a program where we need added capacity or new type of capacity, either partnering, tolling or investing ourselves. That's being developed and first we just need to get the products out there and proven and then when we have those type of products that need new technology, certainly CapEx will come from that area. We still have maintenance and improvement CapEx, and then we have areas of pockets of growth and some new green ideas that we are looking at. We are quite a bit hydrogen producer, for instance, in Finland as a side product. Then as said earlier, we're more looking into also potential M&A.

Harri Taittonen
Senior Equity Research Analyst, Nordea Markets

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thanks.

Operator

Just to remind telephone participants, if you wish to ask a question, please press zero one on your telephone keypads. We have no further telephone questions at this time. Please go ahead.

Mikko Pohjala
VP of Investor Relations, Kemira

Thank you. We have one question from the line. The question is, why did our fixed costs reduce? There's been probably a misunderstanding. Our fixed cost increased by EUR 18 million. Anything to comment there, Petri? General inflation, very low comparison point. Anything else?

Petri Castrén
CFO, Kemira

Yeah. I think it's general inflation. We are seeing inflation running globally 3-4%, in some regions much higher, so clearly it's impacting salaries. We are seeing also somewhat increasing travel costs. We are back to traveling, even though not yet at fully pre-COVID levels, but for sort of last couple of months we have seen travel up to 75% of the pre-COVID level. In that sense, some of those costs which came down during the COVID times are coming back, but not fully, and I don't expect them to come back at the full level. Those are probably explaining year-on-year trends.

Mikko Pohjala
VP of Investor Relations, Kemira

Yes.

Jari Rosendal
President and CEO, Kemira

That's without FX, right? The other thing is that we had a couple of bigger shutdowns this quarter, which don't happen every year, and fixed cost when we do the maintenance shutdowns.

Mikko Pohjala
VP of Investor Relations, Kemira

Good. Thank you. No more questions from the webcast tool either. Many thanks for your questions and many thanks for participating. As a reminder, we publish our Q3 results on Tuesday, October 25. As Petri mentioned before that, we'll arrange our capital markets day on September 13. Hoping to see as many of you there as possible. With this, we conclude the call and wish you a very nice weekend and a very nice summer as well. Thank you.

Jari Rosendal
President and CEO, Kemira

Thank you.

Petri Castrén
CFO, Kemira

Thank you.

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