Good afternoon and Welcome to Revenio Group Q3 Earnings Call. My name is Jouni Toijala and I'm the Group CEO, and we have here as well Robin Pulkkinen, our CFO. Today I'm going to start by going through the highlights for the Q3. So a bit of numbers, then highlights from the business and products. Then Robin is going to go through in more detail the financials and then finish up with the shareholders and reiterate the financial guidance. So let's jump to the Q3. So good quarter in terms of the organic sales growth for us. Net sales EUR 23.9 million, an increase of 8.9% from the last year, which was EUR 22 million. And it should be noted that we got quite a lot of currency headwind from the U.S. dollar/euro exchange rate.
So if you look at the growth from the currency adjusted point of view, so July, September, Q3, growth was actually 15.1%. Operating profit 23% from the net sales, so EUR 5.5 million down from EUR 6 million last year. And here perhaps a couple of comments related to profitability. So we got the headwind, FX headwind, roughly EUR 0.9 million. So roughly a bit more than 50% actually goes through the EBIT line as well. And then this was a really good quarter for us when it comes to launching the new product. So we have a new tonometer, now ST500, then we have the TONOVET Pro, also a new tonometer. So we have been spending quite a lot of additional marketing money for the global launches for these products. But Robin is going to cover in more detail the cost side in his presentation.
Net cash flow from operations: EUR 2.9 million, down from EUR 5.6 million. But if we then look at the whole January to September highlights from the number perspective, so extremely strong cash flow. If you look at the first nine quarters, so EUR 14.1 million up from EUR 5.6 million. And if you look at the sales growth for the first nine months, so we are currently on 8.2%. And if looking at it from the guidance perspective, so currency adjusted growth on the sales side is 8.9%. But if jumping then next to the business highlights for the Q3 2024, so extremely good quarter from us from the product perspective, from regulatory approval perspective. And a couple of comments related to that one. So if looking at the sales in general, so the sales of fundus imaging devices saw double-digit growth year-on-year.
And again, the main growth products were EIDON family and then also the DRSplus. Then from the tonometer side, good quarter as well. iCare HOME again was actually the one of the highest growing devices from the tonometer and also from the imaging product portfolio point of view. IC200 growing well. And then also the newly launched TONOVET Pro getting extremely good traction. And of course, probes have been showing particularly strong performance in terms of the growth as well. Then positive news from China. So we got the approval for EIDON in China. Also the IC200 Quick Measure tonometer feature, of course, together with the hardware was then approved and got the marketing authorization in China. So actually really good news. So these are tending to take time. So as an example, on the EIDON case, we started the project already almost three years ago.
And these are really taking time. So now we have a really good product portfolio available in China. So that's DRSplus, that's EIDON Plus, then the tonometers as well. So that's extremely good news for the future. Then news also during the Q3 from the AI perspective. So we acquired a Dutch company called Thirona Retina. And the logic there was to get the assets on the AI platform. So we have been working with Thirona for a long time in the context of retina screening, so meaning together with the ILLUME and DRSplus. What this enables for us is that now we own the assets. We have a freedom to decide the business model, have a better margin. And in this context, nothing is going to change. So we are going to work with other AI players.
Plus we are going to guarantee that the support from the Thirona Retina is going to continue also for other players like Topcon, like Canon, etc., with whom they are working. So there's no plan to change this one at all. Then in addition to having and using Thirona Retina on a clinical decision support perspective, the other logic for the acquisition was that increasingly AI is increasingly also gaining importance inside the device and in the different functions of the device. So now we have skills and capabilities also in-house for that one and for the future development for the devices. Then not so good news from the CMS perspective, i.e., the reimbursement code for the hardware for the iCare HOME2. So the decision was not to grant the durable medical equipment reimbursement code for iCare HOME2.
The reason was that you already have a good set of the codes which you are able to use and your doctor is able to use. So the codes currently are code for training, then also code for then renting the device out, and also code for telehealth and remote monitoring and the analysis of the data. So that was a logic. So what does that mean for us? So we are going to continue the work around those codes. And still wanting to remind everybody that if you look at the Q3, so HOME2 was the highest growing product segment for us. Then we launched also during the Q3 iCare ST500 slit lamp mounted tonometer. And this is actually the continuation of the things what we said 2021 April in our CMD.
I'm sure somebody remembers from the call audience that we said that the goal in a long run on tonometry side for us is to make rebound technology as a gold standard for tonometry, which is currently the Goldmann tonometer, which is more than 70 years old. This is now also partly answer for that one. What we are going to gain from the slit lamp mounted tonometer is that we haven't had full-blown product portfolio for all patient workflows. The patients which are going to go through the slit lamp investigation, so mainly Goldmann tonometer have been used in order to measure the IOP. Now we have a product for that one. It's fully complementing our other rebound tonometers, IC100 and IC200 and HOME2.
Then another important part is that if we think the Goldmann as a method of measuring the IOP, so it's not fully reliable. So if you measure the patient at the clinic with the Goldmann tonometer and then as an example with iCare HOME2 at home, so you get non-reliable measurements in most of the cases, so it is not repeatable if you use the Goldmann. So now we have clinical proof that actually the whole platform, whether you measure the IOP with IC100, IC200, HOME2, or with ST500, so they are fully repeatable, they are fully comparable. So it's going to improve then the patient care from that perspective. So really good. And then perhaps thirdly have to mention that this is not only the ST500, so what is inside the device, it's totally new.
So we have a totally new hardware platform inside the device, which we are going to use in the forthcoming new tonometers in years to come. So very significant product for us if we think it from the long-term perspective. Then we got also the timing right. So product is good to go. So we have orders already in. We are able to produce it. We are able to ship. And then we have same time we have FDA clearance plus we have the CE marked for the device. So from that perspective, really good news and good to go. So let's switch the gears and move to the financial side. So over to you, Robin.
Thanks, Jouni. So going through a bit more in detail, like Jouni mentioned, the sales were growing organically quite well. We're quite actually satisfied with the top line. Unfortunately, things that we couldn't control were the FX side, which did hit us quite hard during the quarter. It kind of shows on the top line. So the FX adjusted growth was more than 6% more than the reported growth. And due to our cost structure, a lot of that FX hits the gross margin line, which is the main driver for the gross margin to drop below 70% in the quarter. And also to the EBITDA and EBIT line. We did have some one-off costs during the quarter, like we did in the comparable quarter, but they're quite minor.
You do have the operating profit here and the adjusted operating profit, but there's not a huge difference between those lines, but it's shown separately here as there were certain one-off costs which are adjusted. So year to date, EUR 73 million in sales, and that growth is 8.2%, FX adjusted 8.9%. Showing a bit more history. So on the top line, the quarterly fluctuations, looking at the last quarter, we would have been probably pretty close to the trend line without the FX impact. But it seems like the FX has come down a lot since the end of the quarter. So end of September peaked pretty high, and now it's down multiple percentages again. So interesting to see how it plays out now during Q4 and what the impact will be. But if it goes down, it should have a positive impact on the Q4 numbers.
So, profitability slightly down. The one big driver is the FX, which we've been talking here. But also we did have direct costs also that increased. Jouni mentioned the marketing costs. So those together with the personal costs kind of accounted to roughly 85% of the cost increase year-over-year. And on the personal side, you might remember from last year we had very minimal bonus payouts. So the accrual levels are higher now for this year as we are within the guidance and holding to the guidance for the whole year. So that's one of the major parts of the cost increase together with the marketing, which was actually quite significant. The clinical trials, we didn't have a notable impact on during the Q3. We're still looking and working with FDA to understand the scope of the trials.
And hopefully those will start to run again during this quarter, so Q4. But they haven't yet started. So I guess that's still to be worked out how that's going to play. So year to date, net cash flow, it's actually on a record level. So looking at, it's actually quite interesting when you look at the net profit for the first nine months. We're actually exact same net profit than last year during the first nine months. But our cash flow from operations is up 150%. That improvement is mostly coming from working capital. So more effective management of the working capital and also a little bit lower paid taxes. But the working capital, basically AR, AP inventory is the major player there. And then of course the beginning of the year bonus payments were pretty low, which is one reason for the Q1 to be quite good.
Balance sheet continues to be strong and gets stronger. The total balance sheet value went up slightly from EUR 128- EUR 132 year-over-year. On the asset side, the Thirona acquisition shows. On the flip side of the coin, the cash is down slightly, equity up also, and the short- and long-term liability is slightly down. Typically looking at the net gearing for our company, the dividend payouts bring up the number. During the Q2 and then Q3, Q4, and Q1, we build up the cash reserves. Now in Q3, we did pay out for the Thirona, but basically looking into Q4, we would be pretty fair to expect that line to turn down again for the next report. On the shareholder side, there's not many changes. We have 23,324 shareholders at the end of the quarter.
The Finnish ownership actually went down roughly from 49% to 47.7%. And on the top owner list, there's not really any changes. So the number eight has dropped to number 11, but that's like the only change in the top 10 list. And then the country split here. So Denmark is almost fully domestic. And then we have Sweden over 10%, U.S. 8.3%, and France 4.3% ownership. And the guidance, Revenio Group's exchange rate adjusted net sales are estimated to grow 5%-10% from the previous year. And profitability excluding non-recurring items is estimated to remain at a good level. So basically when you do the math, we expect to celebrate our first EUR 100 million year sometime during this quarter now. So hopefully it's sooner than later. But to keep the guidance means that we have to go over EUR 100 million in sales this Q4.
Excellent. Thank you, Robin. It's time for the questions, please.
If you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial pound key six on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Nikko Ruokangas from SEB. Please go ahead.
Hello, this is Nikko Ruokangas from SEB. Thank you for the presentation. I have a couple of questions, and starting with that, you said that the investment by PE-driven opticians continued to move slowly and the slight positive momentum seen during H1 has not yet materialized in large orders, so have you still seen the positive momentum despite not larger orders yet, and then on the other hand, when do you expect the orders starting to materialize?
So the status, Nikko and Hi Nikko, hey. So status pretty much the same as before. So we are getting orders, but not these big orders or not on the big chunks, but I mean here and there. And so in that sense, remains to be the same. And then of course the question mark is that when it's going to turn. So I don't have a full question. Sorry, I don't have a full answer to that one yet. But I mean the sentiment has been the same and orders popping in, but not kind of a huge chunks that it used to be earlier. So in that sense, status is the same.
All right. Understand. Any other changes? How do you view your outlook compared to Q2 report?
I mean, no, no. So exactly the same logic. So if we look what we have been communicating, so Q1 more or less on par for the previous year, Q2 good growth, Q3 good growth. And then again when we go towards the Q4, so as we have said earlier, so the most of the growth for the full, if you look the whole full year is coming from the Q2 and Q3. But anything, Robin, you would like to add on that?
Yeah, I think the Q4 comparables were challenging like Q1 and kind of I think the year has played out very much like we've been discussing all year along. So it's already in Q1, we assumed Q2 and Q3 to bring the biggest growth and then Q4 is a more challenging quarter for us. And I think the situation has played out pretty much what we expected it to do.
Yeah, understand. Then I would like to again ask a question regarding competition, which has been discussed quite many times, but has Reichert become more visible competitor to you in economies either in Europe or the U.S., and has the competitive situation affected your pricing?
So, we have been now very active on a couple of trade shows where the Reichert has been in, so ESCRS, AAO about two weeks ago. So, I mean, no impact to the sales, no impact to our pricing. So, they have been surprisingly quiet still. And if you look at our tonometer growth and the probe growth so far, so good, but as before, so remaining humble and vigilant from that perspective, but status is exactly the same that it was during the Q2.
Understand. Then on the FDA costs, so you say that there were not much in Q3. So how much are there still left? And then does it mean the delay or does it mean delay in the process that the trials are not currently ongoing?
I could answer to that one, so we have done two pre-subs for the FDA. Let's understand what has been going on if we think of the FDA costs in general. We have had products in a pipeline, so ST500 generating the FDA cost. So of course those are kind of gone, clinical studies gone. We have clearance from FDA. Then we have been working on the clinical studies related to MAIA, MAIA 3, next generation MAIA. So those costs have been coming in, and then what comes to the ILLUME, Thirona, Retina, AI, and then DRSplus. So there we have been doing now the pre-subs in order to get the scope of the clinical studies right, and we have done two pre-subs now, and now we have the FDA approval and still going the feedback through.
Really, the logic is that we don't want to hurry and we want to get it right. So it would be a shame that we do a long clinical study that costs EUR 1 million-EUR 1.5 million, and then the FDA comes and says that, hey, you didn't take this small part into account, and then we should run the clinical studies again. So this is where we stand now. We haven't yet started the clinical studies, and we haven't started taking the patients in yet because we want to be sure that everything goes as it should be towards the FDA so that we meet all the requirements. That's the current status.
Okay, so that will still bring another EUR 1 million- EUR 1.5 million of costs during Q4 and H1.
We did have some in the Q1, but yeah, the scope and the number of patients needed. I don't think any of that is yet locked, and if you still need to adjust or do a new pre-submission, that would mean that probably there won't be any cost in Q4 either, but we don't know yet for sure, so we're talking with FDA and try to understand and make sure that whatever studies we start, they meet all the requirements needed to get the approval.
Okay, I understand. That's all from me at this point.
Thank you, Nikko.
Thanks.
The next question comes from Daniel Lepistö from Danske Bank. Please go ahead.
Hi, it's Daniel Lepistö from Danske Bank. I hope you can hear me well. Apologies, my line has been quite poor during the call. But I have a couple of questions, maybe continuing on the PE funded opticians and your note of there being no larger orders yet. But I guess looking at the organic growth on FX adjusted basis accelerating quarter on quarter, it seems that you are still doing quite good business. So who are these customer segments now that are driving this growth at the moment?
It's the standard segment, so optometry, ophthalmology. And then we have been able to get constantly every quarter the new deals for the ILLUME package. And with the ILLUME package, I mean DRSplus plus the ILLUME plus the AI. And the tendency is that we tend to sell those packages outside of our traditional customer segments, i.e., optometry and ophthalmology, of course part to the optometry. But that has been also the new segment for us this year where we have been able to sell. But we have been, as said earlier, so we have found the new clients and the new growth from the optometry, ophthalmology, and then as an example from the diabetic clinics in Europe.
Okay, I mean, can you give us any sort of a growth contribution of the ILLUME? Because it certainly sounds that it has been, it has started to become a bigger contribution for growth compared to maybe some time ago.
No, I think the traction is good. We have a lot of users coming on the platform and a lot of reports being run. But revenue-wise, it doesn't yet move the ILLUME part. But the hardware sales, those are kind of recognized and as they're being delivered. So those are kind of, in a way, you could say hardware sales, but it's fully related to the software being part of it. But the ILLUME revenue, of course, is a recurring revenue stream that then starts to play a more bigger role in the coming years.
All right, yeah, I understand. Good clarification. I guess the second topic on the ST500 and the launch, thinking about the discussion on the Goldmann or the GAT technology, I recall that the Goldmann technology used to be like 20% of the total market. And I guess this is now a sort of a portion that you can target quite well with this new solution. So is this market share estimate still valid? And are you sort of more confident on capturing more sort of global tonometer market share looking at the following coming years?
I think the Goldmann is actually more like, let's say if we're 35, then Goldmann and air puff was probably both in the 30s range also. So basically it's a pretty big market and we didn't have really anything to offer to the slit lamp mounted Goldmann to replace that. So now it's the first time we're able to sell to that segment. So definitely there's good potential and actually the product has been received very well also in the U.S. and Europe. Then the trade shows, we had the AAO and ESCRS in Barcelona. I think the product drew a lot of attention also within the slit lamp manufacturers. So it's interesting to see how all that's going to play out.
All right, that's good. I guess the final question maybe still on the new products or product refreshments on the MAIA microperimeter. I guess you noticed that there will be first commercial deliveries in early 2025. So can you clarify here, you already have a functioning product and that is approved? Or do you have any sort of already saved pipeline for this product or is this just your expectations that there will be deliveries?
So a couple of things there. So we have done, so one of the most important things what we have passed already many months ago is to guarantee that if we measure a patient with the next generation MAIA, so the new MAIA, we get exactly the same results compared to the old MAIA. So that's done and we have done the clinical studies in order to prove that one. So that's a first hurdle which we have already passed. Then we already have a working device, which is, and so the software is pretty mature. So we have a working device here at our office. So from that perspective, we are in good shape. And of course then the third thing is that we have to get the regulatory approvals.
Current goal is that we would be able to start taking the orders in and start being able to move the business forward towards the first half of next year and hopefully Q1. That's where we currently stand. Nothing has changed on that perspective and it looks good that we are able to keep the Q1 timeline from that perspective that we are able to start commercial deliveries. Then regarding to the pipeline, sorry, Daniel, still, so regarding to the pipeline, so that has been the unfortunate case that we, so I mean we would have been able to sell devices if we would have had the device. We have the demand for the device as soon as we can get it out. That's a good thing.
Yeah, all right, that's great to hear. I guess that's all from my side. Thank you for the answers.
The next question comes from Jack Reynolds-Clark from RBC Capital Markets. Please go ahead. Jack Reynolds-Clark, RBC Capital Markets, your line is now unmuted. Please go ahead.
Hi there, guys. Sorry, I've had a bit of technical issues so far on the call, so apologies if, hopefully you can hear me now. And apologies if the question I'm going to ask has already been answered. But I had a question on the HOME2 device. So what was the reasoning that CMS gave behind the decision not to reimburse HOME2 separately? And then on the existing codes, kind of how generous are these, how accessible are these, and kind of how much incremental sales investment do you think is required to grow HOME2 in the U.S. now that these codes aren't going to be available for use separately? Thank you.
I'll start first with the reasons. They said that you already have codes in use, and I'm answering the second question as well. They said that you have already training codes in use. According to my recollection, it's roughly $20, so $19. Then if renting the device, that's roughly $50. Then analysis and monitoring, that's $130. You have to analyze the data, follow-up, and have a verbal conversation and so forth. There's a pretty good set of the codes which doctors are able to bill already. That was the logic from the CMS that why not to give the DME, so Durable Medical Equipment code. In terms of the sales effort and increasing the sales effort, we go and continue the work as we have been before.
So if, as an example, thinking the last month or two weeks ago, we had an AAO or ESCRS. We have had the key opinion leaders talking on the stand, Ike Ahmed, who is considered to be one of the gurus on glaucoma management in the USA. He was talking to other doctors during the AAO, then Barbara Wirostko during the ESCRS. We continue according to the same spend as before to sell and to promote the iCare HOME2. As said, it was the highest growth device for us in terms of the percentages during the Q3.
Great, that's it. Okay, thank you so much.
Hey, thanks, Jack.
The next question comes from Pia Rosqvist-Heinsalmi from Carnegie Investment Bank. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi, it's Pia here. Hi, Jouni, and hi, Robin. A few questions. I still come back to the explanation on the burden from the FX change. So when I look at the rates, the euro USD rate looks broadly flat in the Q3. So can you please again explain what happened on your P&L and in your balance sheet that affected your sales growth rate negatively?
So basically, it's a complicated package, but the U.S. dollar revenue is revalued for the whole year. So it's year-to-date revalued every quarter when we do it. And that's based on the weighted or the average exchange rates. But then the balance sheet is revalued at the end of the closing date exchange rate. And there basically the balance sheet, certain values in the balance sheet also get revalued on the top line. So it's an adjustment line, FX adjustment line on the revenue. And that's also a big player there. So kind of a combination of those. And it's difficult for an outsider to understand the impacts because there are items that get revalued which is not visible to you. So it's a difficult thing to kind of try to analyze or forecast how it's going to play.
Okay, thank you. Still, so is it the fact that the balance sheet revaluation, is that the larger explanation now in the Q3?
It was a big part also. I don't have the full split in front of me right now, but there are different items.
All right. Okay, then to the business, you say that the sales development of the probes was really strong. So what do you attribute that growth to? Is it higher prices? Is it higher volumes? Is it higher usage? How would you describe the demand for probes?
Hi, Pia. Jouni here. We haven't touched the pricing. If we look, one way to look at Q3 is of course to look at it through the top line, but then look at it through the unit sales growth perspective. We had a really good growth during Q3 also from the unit perspective. We just have been selling more probes and the devices are, I mean, they have been used more than last year Q3 clearly. And we have shipped more probes.
Right, thank you. Then regarding stronger sales to Asia Pacific, can you be more granular on the country level? So is it Japan, is it China, or is it a more broader picture?
So it depends a bit country by country. Australia has been now Q3 picking up well and so forth. There are a couple of countries I don't want to go in detail because of the competitive reasons. Then I think what is clear highlight APAC perspective is actually the China. Because we now have DRSplus in China, we have EIDON in China, we have IC200 Quick Measure in China. So if you look at the Q3 APAC numbers, so now also the China moved the needle during Q3 if you think the APAC numbers. But do you, Robin, have any insights on?
Yeah, I think Australia was the biggest one kind of country that performed really well, and the imaging sales there. But yeah, we sell to quite many countries that they're all a bit different. Some are up, some are down, but those are kind of the two major factors.
Okay, thank you. Then regarding the decision not to grant the reimbursement code for HOME2, so how do you view this? Do you think this is a setback? I mean, you still reported very solid growth or very strong growth for HOME2, but compared to your expectations, where the plan to get a single reimbursement code kind of the key to unlock faster sales? And how do you view the potential now with doctors having to use multiple codes?
Of course, we were hoping, and of course we are disappointed that we didn't get the code. But I mean, we continue the work. So again, if you think this quarter and the status and the feedback what we received from ESCRS or AAO, so we are more and more confident that in order to be able to serve the patients, those ones who are having a glaucoma, they should measure the pressures at home and follow-up the fluctuations in order to get the medication right. So we continue the work on that premises and in order to be sure that the patients are getting their right medication and so forth. So the work continues. Of course, it would have been nice to get the code. But the traction is good. There's a clinical benefit. So we continue hard work from the home perspective.
Okay, thank you. Then still my final question regarding your comments on the outlook. I think you said that you feel that you have very limited visibility into the future. Are there any new concerns on the horizon that you follow extra carefully, or is this just a general reflection into the current economic environment?
Yeah, nothing new has really come up. Everything seems the same than before. Of course, we can see from many of the other company reports that the economy hasn't taken kind of a huge growth in the last months, but we keep a close eye on that, of course.
Yeah, all right, thank you so much. That's all for me.
Thank you, Pia.
The next question comes from Joni Sandvall from Nordea. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi, thanks for the presentation. I have a couple of questions. Maybe getting back on the margins, gross margins were down quite clearly year-over-year and also Q- over- Q. So I understand that there is the FX impact, but you also mentioned very strong growth in tonometers, which to my understanding have higher margins. So what has actually changed? Is there some cost pressure or price pressure, or is this driven by geographical difference in sales split?
Yeah, the FX is of course a big part. So a very big part of the whole top line FX hits the kind of the gross margin as well because our variable cost, we have the commissions for the U.S. sales reps as a dollar-based cost. But other than that, there's some components in the devices that are dollar-based, but it really flows down to the gross margin. That's the biggest single reason. Then of course it depends how much the sales grew for tonometers, for example, if you use that as an example in the U.S. versus the rest of the world where we have our direct sales channel. So the margins in the U.S. sales are of course a lot higher because we sell direct to the end user.
We leave like 40%, 45% of the money on the table on every other country in the world where we sell. And then of course the product mix. So we have the gross margins vary between the products quite significantly. So a combination of those things.
Okay, okay, that's clear. Maybe a broader question as the U.S. elections are closing. So do you see actually, is there any risks from possible tariffs following the elections on your behalf?
We actually have been thinking it, and according to my understanding, I think there might be bright minds on this topic on this call. So if somebody else would like to comment. But as far, I haven't seen too much discussion related to the medical equipment. But if there's insights on this one, so other shareholders and analysts, so please feel free to jump in.
Okay, okay, that's clear. Hey, then maybe follow-up on this ST500 slit lamp. It seems quite interesting addition. But could you give us any indication what are you expecting on sales in 2025 for this product to just get some grasp of the potential of the new tonometer?
Yes, sorry, sorry, Joni, so we don't unfortunately give out. But we are now building the budget for next year. So there's a healthy number also for the ST500 like IC100, IC200, and for the home and for the probes. So sorry, can't comment on.
Probably the fastest growing product next year because we don't have much sales this year yet. A couple of months of sales.
[crossstalk] So for sure, the percentages are going to look really good, Joni. But also hopefully the dollars.
Starting point.
Yeah, also hopefully the dollars. But we have a good order backlog for that product already. So that's a good thing.
Okay, good to hear. And then the last one, this maybe goes to Robin. So could you give any indication of this marketing spend? How much was this delta to normal so we could take this into account?
It's in the hundreds of thousands. So after the cost increase, marketing spend and personal expenses are like 85%. And then it's not evenly 50/50, but maybe the personal is a bit more than the marketing. But it's a big chunk.
Okay, okay, thanks. That's all from me.
Thank you, Joni.
As a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad. There are no more questions at this time, so I hand the conference back to the speakers for any closing comments.
Great. Hey, thank you. I think it's time to conclude the Q3 call. Next time we are going to meet February. So we have a bit of a change in plans. So we are going to run a webcast because it's a full year and perhaps a bit more extended earnings call on February. So really looking forward to see and have the participation in February. And thank you for your participation and have an extremely good end of the year. And let's meet again early February. Thank you.
Thank you.