Hello everyone, and welcome to this press conference that we are doing today at Stora Enso for Announcing The News of Our Acquisition of De Jong Packaging Group, as means of accelerating our growth in our renewable packaging, according to our renewable packaging strategy. With me, I have Seppo Parvi, our CFO, and we hope with this press conference that we could share, give you some more insights and of course, allow everyone to ask questions about this deal. As we have released our press release today, we are acquiring De Jong Packaging Group, as part of growing our corrugated and renewable packaging business. It is one of the largest corrugated packaging producers in Benelux with approximately EUR 1 billion in sales.
This of course is an important and significant step in accordance with our strategy to grow in renewable packaging. It gives us access to complementary markets in the Benelux, Germany and the U.K.. It is a competitive company in growing product segments and has a clear and demonstrated growth track record, both in organic but also in acquisitions. So this we see is an excellent fit with the type of company we are and the strategy that we are driving. The transaction of course is subject to regulatory approval and we expect to be closing it by the beginning of 2023. If we look now at what type of business De Jong is, as I said, it's one of the largest corrugated packaging producers in the Benelux countries.
It has three businesses or business areas, corrugated converting, packaging wholesale business, and containerboard production. It was founded in 1996, family-owned, with approximately 1,300 employees. The company's vertically integrated in a corrugated packaging and based in De Lier in the Netherlands. As I said, it's one of the largest producers in this field in the Benelux region. It comprises out of 17 sites in the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, and the U.K. with a current corrugated capacity of 560 million sq m. I will come back a little bit later, but there are also ongoing expansion projects that are part of this acquisition that will double the capacity in the coming years.
It also consists of one containerboard production site in the Netherlands, two production lines with annual capacity of 380,000 tons of containerboard, and a flexible energy solution with possibility to both produce its own electricity, sell electricity on the grid, and a flexible gas situation. All in all, this is a very good kind of setup and complementary to our own business. With this acquisition, we have the opportunity to enter new markets in corrugated packaging, where there is very little overlapping of our existing Packaging Solutions business. As you can see from this map, our parts of the business are the current part of Stora Enso business is in the Nordics, Baltics and Poland.
With this acquisition, we gain access to the markets of Germany, U.K., and the Benelux area, regions where we do not have operations today. As many of you might be aware, corrugated packaging business is a local business, so having a footprint close to the customers is extremely important in order to grow our presence and the business in these markets. We will be able to enter Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, and U.K.. We will also be able to further enhance our service and offering to both our existing customers, but also gain a new customer portfolio. The aim is to deliver EUR 30 million average in annual synergies over the business cycle in the medium term, coming three years. Mainly from sourcing, of course, containerboard integration with our current operations and commercial opportunities.
De Jong Packaging Group has a very strong market position in these markets and also in attractive and growing end use segments. If we look on the left on this slide, we can see that the majority of the kind of customer portfolio is for produce and fresh trays used for transporting fruit and vegetables and other fresh food. And of course here, the Benelux and the Netherlands region is a strong foothold in this type of business. It also has industrial packaging for durable goods and transport packaging for FMCG and retail business.
Lastly, also part of the business is e-commerce, which as we know, is a fast growing business that has had very attractive kind of growth opportunities and continues to be growing in the long term according to long-term trends. What are the value-adding capabilities that we gain with this acquisition on top of the capabilities that Stora Enso already has? It is that this is a company that has had a demonstrated growth over the years and a very good capabilities in this area to grow both organically but also through M&As. De Jong is known for a very strong flexibility, speed, reliability, staying close to customers, and customizing the product offering has been one of the key strength of the company.
Also a great competence in automation solutions, which is increasingly kind of driving up the performance in corrugated packaging. All in all, the customer offer is very strong, and it's very appreciated in the segments that De Jong operates. A few words now about the expansion projects that are currently running in De Jong. The biggest one is in De Lier site in the Netherlands. There, two new corrugators are built, so the production capacity will increase from 375 million square meters to up to 750 million square meters. This is a large transformation, of course, and will make the site the largest and most modern corrugated converting site in Europe.
Very much in the center of the where the business is done, but also a very competitive position. This project is, as I said, ongoing and will be operational first quarter in 2023. The other major project is a U.K. expansion to a new site in Ellesmere Port. Here it's a new corrugator that's being constructed with a production capacity of 225 million square meters. This site will be fully operational in quarter one 2024. All in all, these two investments, also with some additional investments in other sites, end up in a investment CapEx of EUR 275 million to be invested during this year, 2022.
As a final result, the capacity will double from 560 million sq m in this year, 2022, to approximately 1.2 million sq m by first quarter 2024. The annual EBITDA impact is estimated to be more than EUR 40 million by 2025. All in all, it is not only current business that we are acquiring, we are also acquiring a very modern kind of footprint going forward and a very cost competitive position in key markets. Another perspective is also the excellent fit that we see with the location of the De Jong business and our possible conversion of our Langerbrugge paper site.
Some of you may be aware that currently our Belgian site in Langerbrugge is producing newsprint, but we are running a feasibility study for the conversion of it into packaging grades such as testliner and recycled fluting grades. The total capacity, if this is decided, will be 700,000 tons, and the decision is to be made during the first half of 2023. If we make a positive decision here, the closeness to the De Jong production sites gives us excellent opportunities for integrating and combining the two most competitive renewable packaging assets in the respective parts of the value chain. A converted Langerbrugge site will be the most cost competitive containerboard producer in Europe, and the De Lier site will be the largest and most modern corrugated mill site in Europe.
All in all, this proximity, it's only 660 km of distance between these sites, offers additional opportunities for both commercial and cost integration benefits over the business cycle. This have not been taken into account yet since the decision is not made. If we look now at how we are accelerating profitable growth in our renewable corrugated business, the transaction has a value of an enterprise value of a little bit above EUR 1 billion, of which EUR 250 million is IFRS lease liabilities corresponding to a multiple of 8.9x. This is an estimate pro forma IFRS EBITDA impact of EUR 114 million for 2022.
This also means a EUR 45 million possible additional earn-out subject to achievement of defined earnings targets that will materialize later on if the targets are met. The ongoing expansion in De Jong will deliver more than EUR 40 million of combined annual EBITDA impact by 2025, and we also expect 30 million of expected annual synergies over the business cycle up to three years from now. Our net debt position will be impacted by 0.4x-1.4x in net debt to operational EBITDA ratio. This is below our target of 2x, and we have worked the last years in improving our balance sheet positions to be able to do these types of acquisitions in our business.
This is still a very good step forward for us, and we can manage it within the framework of our balance sheet. The transaction is expected to be EPS accretive from the first year. These are the main facts about this acquisition. We are of course very happy to be joining forces with the De Jong company. I now open up for your questions and input. Thank you very much.
We will now begin the question and answer session. To ask a question, you may press star then one on your telephone keypad. If at any time your question has been addressed and you would like to withdraw your question, please press star then two. The first question is from Justin Jordan from Exane BNP Paribas. Please go ahead.
Good morning, everyone. Exciting times to be in. It's very true to your strategy of accelerating profitable growth. I've got two quick, honestly, modeling questions. Firstly, just within the EBITDA number that you provided, EUR 114 for 2022.
Sorry, Justin. Justin.
Can you give us some sense?
Justin, your voice is breaking up a bit.
Sorry, Seppo. Okay, Seppo, I'll try again.
No, it's better.
I mean, two quick questions. Within the 114 2022 EBITDA that you've given us, can you give us some sense of what the depreciation number is within that 114, please? Then, Seppo, I'm sure something you'll know instantaneously. What is your weighted average finance cost or your, you know, the finance cost we should be thinking for modeling purposes on approximately EUR 1 billion consideration, please? Thank you.
Well, when it comes to financing cost, I think if you look at our latest bonds where they are trading, you can get there a good benchmark when it comes to financing costs that they are publicly traded. When it comes to financing as such, as said, we have a high liquidity currently in the books. We are gonna use part of our existing liquidity as well as some bilateral loans potentially to fund the transaction. When it comes to depreciation, I think I don't have that at the moment, but I can check it and come back to that later during the call.
Thank you, Seppo.
The next question is from Lars Kjellberg from Credit Suisse. Please go ahead.
Thank you. A couple of questions. The expansion program that is currently ongoing, how much more money do you expect it to, you know, CapEx to be in 2023 as you take on the second expansion, I guess that starts up early the following year? Can you give us the criteria for the earnout, the EUR 45 million? What needs to happen for that to, for you to be forced to pay that out? The third element, I guess, you know, the integration benefits, given that they seem to be pretty much broadly integrated assets before they expand. Can you elaborate a bit how you think about pre-Langerbrugge, how you can integrate the tons you have in Europe, because they're not particularly geographically advantaged into the system?
Okay. If I start with the finance related, then Annica can take the integration related question. When it comes to capital expenditure for the expansion projects that remains to be paid over the next two years, it's about EUR 50 million. Nothing major relating to that to be paid anymore. When it comes to payout, we don't go into details, but it is tied to the financial performance of De Jong Packaging Group after the acquisition. That will then if certain thresholds, profitability levels are reached, then the payment will be made.
If we look at the integration, as you are aware, we have customers also in our Ostrołęka mill. We have the containerboard mill in De Jong, De Hoop, and then we have Langerbrugge. This gives us optionality of how we kind of can choose the markets where it makes best sense for the different kind of sites and the customer pipeline. Of course, if a positive decision is taken on Langerbrugge, it will also enable kind of a good startup since you already have some of your customers in your own kind of business through the De Jong acquisition.
Of course, we will need to come back a little bit more later when we have completed the feasibility study in Langerbrugge of what type of product mix we will run there and how we will choose to kind of move forward when we've also more kind of seen the full picture with the existing containerboard production and the customer pipeline in the De Jong business and work with that more detail.
Two more questions, if I may. You called out good organic and inorganic growth. Could you give us a sense how the organic growth has, you know, progressed over the past five years or so? Also just to help us understand the momentum in this business in the
EUR 114 million you call out for 2022 EPS with i.e. but also the H1, if you can share that.
Well, if we look at the organic growth, they have consistently made sure to invest in their assets, and the De Lier and the U.K. investment are two kind of proof points of that. How much they have ramped up during the last year, we will not disclose at this moment. We will come back with that information further along the line. They have also made acquisitions from other companies and have been successfully integrating those. I don't know if you want to add anything additional to that, Seppo.
No, exactly as you said. They have been growing pretty fast over the past years.
H1 profitability, can you comment or not really?
No, we can't comment at this point, unfortunately.
Understood. Thank you.
The next question is from Robin Santavirta from Carnegie. Please go ahead.
Yes, thank you very much. Maybe to continue on Lars' question, phrase this a bit sort of differently. What is the profitability this year roughly compared to the historical average of this company? I guess that is something that is quite important for you guys to sort of shed some light on, so we understand how to look at the valuation. That's the first question. The second question I have is related to the energy setup of De Jong's operations. What source of energy does this company use? Is that hedged? And is the current sort of environment tricky for this company with regards to energy? Finally, just on the containerboard production of this company, what is the grade?
Is it, I guess, for recycled fiber? How much of De Jong's corrugated plants are fed with? How well integrated is the corrugated plant? Those three. Thanks.
Okay. If I start with the profitability and energy-related, and then Annica can continue the containerboard production. First of all, when it comes to energy, they use both natural gas and electricity, and they have certain portions hedged. We are not going into details on the hedging ratios as such, but important to note is that especially when it comes to corrugated business, that is not very energy-intensive business compared to our board businesses or similar. Also good to remember when it comes to gas supply that in the Netherlands especially, they have some of their own gas supply available, and then it's imported from Norway, so they are not dependent on Russian gas. That is also important point to keep in mind.
When it comes to profitability over time, it's very difficult to give comparable figures to help you. I understand kind of what you are after, but like Annica said, we have to remember that company has been growing very fast over the past years, both top line as well as profitability-wise. Very difficult to give you sort of ongoing rate. I would say that if you look at the figure, this EUR 114 mentioned in the release today and where this is sort of ongoing rate in the current business environment, I think that gives a good idea about the ongoing rate. Then obviously, you need to take into account the benefits when it comes to synergies that are mentioned, as well as the extension projects that are up and running.
Synergies, EUR 30 million and revised EBITDA EUR 40 million from the extension projects once they are fully ramped up.
If we look at the containerboard production side, as I said, it produces today 375,000 tons per year. It is mainly containerboard, plasterboard and honeycomb. It is well integrated today. Of course, you know, you always have a choice of how you sell it and where you sell it, either within your own kind of business, but also if you want outside. It is
Yeah. Sorry, the question on depreciation that was made earlier. Depreciation is about EUR 36 million a year.
All right, good. Thank you very much. Back to you.
The next question is from Cole Hathorn from Jefferies. Please go ahead.
Morning. Thanks for taking my question. Just following up on the strategy for this business. I mean, over time, is this more you wanting the corrugated and the converting capacity? I mean, they bought this De Hoop mill from DS Smith, and I imagine with gas prices where they are, there's probably not much profitability coming from the paper production at this time. I'm just wondering if on a five-year view, if you're potentially gonna convert Langerbrugge, if that allows you to close this De Hoop mill and run that lower cost Langerbrugge site to improve profitability of the business. Just wondering your thoughts longer term about that kind of paper network in Netherlands.
We cannot comment on five-year kind of perspectives right now, but we do believe that the footprint that we have with the De Jong sites and the combination of the assets gives us the opportunity to create a very competitive footprint. As I said, the decision about Langerbrugge is not made yet, but it is certainly one of the pieces of the puzzle, how can we kind of extract the best kind of profitability from the sites by joining forces here? We would need to come back on that further on. If we look at the strategy as such, Packaging Solutions and for that matter also our Wood Products division are the so-called asset-light type of divisions.
We have worked with kind of a lot of effort to get our balance sheet in shape so that we can and our net debt position in a good position so that we have the headroom to make acquisitions. This is kind of a first very good step for Packaging Solutions, and we are constantly reviewing other opportunities and when we find cases where it makes strategically a good fit for us. Yes, certainly for Packaging Solutions, this is the direction that we are gonna go. If we have good chances, like in this case also to have expansions organically, those are evaluated together with possibilities for acquisitions.
Maybe coming back to what Lars was getting to and Robin on historic profitability levels. I know you can't give an absolute EBITDA number because they've been growing over this time, but what should we be thinking about as the EBITDA margin for a business like this? Should we be thinking that kind of a 10% EBITDA margin is a reasonable place to be? You know, I suppose, should we also be thinking about that for your Packaging Solutions division as a whole?
We will align this business according to our financial targets that we have in Stora Enso. As I said, this has been a very strong grower. They have grown profitably, and they have a kind of a good track record of doing that. This is unfortunately what we can share right now. I understand it's not a public company, so there is not much information out there. We will share information as we progress also with the integration, pending of course approval and all the synergies as we kind of work through this acquisition and in our company.
Thank you.
The next question is from Brian Morgan from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Hi, guys. Thanks very much. I was struggling to hear the answer to the question about the energy situation at the mill, just in terms of contractual gas levels or hedges or whatever the case is. Could you run through that again? Then also, I assume that you're going to split this business up when you show it in the segmentals, so the corrugating business in Packaging Solutions and then De Jong in the converting side of the business, right?
I didn't hear the second question, but let me start with the first one, and then you can repeat it. I didn't catch your second question. Regarding the first, if we look at the segments that they have the biggest kind of volumes, it is in the fresh produce, which is kind of a very good business, especially in that region. It has the highest value for that business. It is trays for fruit and vegetables and agricultural products and so on. This is the area where also the company has built a very fast service. They own their own truck and fleet for very quick distribution and being close to customers.
They have a very strong supply chain set up with, as I said, their own trucks and so on. The second area, which is big, is the industrial part, industrial packaging for durable goods in various fields. If we look at kind of those areas, the growth is solid 2%-3% annual growth in these segments over the next five years. We have the FMCG areas, for instance, stands in retail and enabling easy unpacking of retail goods and e-commerce. Especially for e-commerce, as we know, the long-term trend still kind of shows growth in that area, even though kind of lately now it's coming down from the very high levels during the pandemic.
Long term, this is an area that's growing significantly above the 2%-3% that the other areas have. Overall, I believe the customer and product mix is a very good and solid one for this business. They have been very good at kind of generating value in these areas. The second question I didn't catch.
Yeah. The second question was on just segmental disclosure. I assume that you'll put the mill in with the renewable packaging business and the corrugating business in with Packaging Solutions. You're gonna split them out, right?
Yes, the business is gonna be Integrated in Packaging Solutions, and we will get back to the targets once we have progressed a little bit more.
I think you have to.
Sorry?
I assume you'll split EBIT out of this business, out of Packaging Solutions, right?
The containerboard production is gonna go to Packaging Materials, and the corrugated production is gonna be reporting in Packaging Solutions. The main part of the business is corrugating business, so that is going to Packaging Solutions.
Very good. Thanks very much, Annica.
The next question is from Linus Larsson from SEB. Please go ahead.
Thank you very much. Just to better understand the profitability levels where we are and maybe where it will be going forward, I wonder if it's possible to break down EBITDA or EBITDA margins for that matter. You mentioned the three business areas of De Jong. Would that be possible in any way?
No, we don't, Linus, go to those details in our segment reporting in general or when it comes to call today.
Okay. I guess you will, at closing, come back to us and share such the details how to consolidate the businesses in the two of your divisions.
Yeah. Because as you can see.
Again-
It's dominantly corrugated business if you look at the business that we have acquired.
In terms of sales, how much of sales is corrugated?
We are not giving that split yet at the moment. Obviously when we
Okay
After the closing, we will then obviously come with the closer information on that kind of information.
Okay. That's fair enough. We'll come back to that, I guess. I mean, the deal as such is a shift towards Western Europe. You've been very much Northern and Eastern European-focused in the past, and now with Langerbrugge conversion, potentially you're really taking a step to the left. I mean, is there more to follow? Are you actually scanning for more converting operations in Western Europe? How should we think about that, more west-leaning strategy now?
Yes, we are constantly reviewing possible targets. As I said before, we didn't have the financial position to be able to kind of view such targets. Yes, where we find that we can strengthen our footprint, where we find good integration opportunities, companies that have a proven track record of good profitability, good management teams, and a strong customer focus, these are of course in the pipeline and where we're working. Packaging Solutions is the natural kind of division within packaging to do such acquisitions. In Wood Products is the other one where we are working with the pipeline. You're right, Linus, we are looking where we can find these good integration benefits with our business.
Linus-
Thank you.
Just to follow up on your question on sales in corrugated and containerboard. Containerboard capacity is 380,000 tons a year, so that gives you some idea on size of that business.
Yes. Yes. Thank you. No, that's all very interesting. Then just finally, just and I probably missed that in the beginning of the presentation, but De Jong today, what's the balance in terms of containerboard? You know, are they neutral, long, short? Could you put a number on that, please?
They set up a very small containerboard production of their own. On top of that, they purchased both virgin-based testliner fluting as well as kraftliner fluting, virgin-based, and then testliner from the external sources. They are short of containerboard.
Okay. All right.
That is obviously part of the synergies that we can achieve with our existing own containerboard production.
Excellent. Thank you very much.
The next question is from Geoffrey Bellier from Bank of America. Please go ahead.
Good morning, everyone. Thanks for taking my question. The first one I have is on the EUR 30 million synergies you mentioned. Could you provide us with a split between your revenue and cost synergies, please? The second question I have is obviously concerning the current macroeconomic environment, and then obviously your financial leverage. Could this acquisition potentially delay one of the feasibility studies and potential CapEx programs that you have across the group?
I can answer on the CapEx. No, we can still continue with all the projects that we have in pipeline pending, of course, that they prove that they live up to the targets that we have set. This is in no way derailing or delaying any of the other projects that we have. This is the good thing of the work that we have done, that we are able to both be below our target of net debt to operational EBITDA less than two, even if there is kind of more challenging macroeconomic environment around us. In that way, we feel confident that we will be able to manage and also continue driving growth in the areas that we choose.
If we look at the synergies, we will not provide a split, but of course, as we progress, we will report on how this is going and give you more insights as we start working with it.
Main areas we are looking for the cost synergies is, so quite typical ones, sourcing on commercial side, and then like already mentioned, containerboard for the site integration. They get benefit of our existing long position in Stora Enso that they have in short position on containerboards.
When we look, for instance, for commercial side, we will honor the customer agreements that we have right now, and then we will work with, as I said, the product mix between our own units and how we distribute so that we have the best site producing the best products for our customers. If we look at sourcing, generally, this is an area where our purchasing power as a big kind of company can support improving kind of the costs in the sourcing area of a company such as De Jong. If we look at kind of the integrational synergies, these of course are depend on the positive decision in Langerbrugge and also how we choose to work with the customer pipeline.
All that we would need to come back to as we kind of progress further on. We are very optimistic that this is kind of a good fit for us and where we can find these synergies and deliver on them.
Thank you very much, Annica, for the lengthy answer on this one. I guess a quick follow-up on Langerbrugge and considering obviously the energy price levels at the moment, what sort of energy sources are you thinking of for Langerbrugge? Are there other options than gas boilers at the moment?
Yeah, well, Langerbrugge has its own energy setup where it uses waste for energy production. Actually it's not dependent on gas in that sense. If we look at, as we said, the De Jong, Netherlands as a country has its own gas fields, has a pipeline towards Norway for gas, and then the containerboard site in De Jong, De Hoop, that's the name of the containerboard site, has its own kind of ability to produce electricity, to send electricity to the grid, and also flexible gas setup. All in all, I believe as a company, Stora Enso generally, we are in a much better position than many others.
Of course, we have taken into account the energy kind of situation when we have made the decision to acquire a company such as De Jong.
Well, thank you very much for the answer. I'll go back in the queue. Thanks.
The next question is from Thomas Boguslawski from Yle. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good day, everyone. I have a couple of questions in Swedish for Annica Bresky. First of all, how do you motivate this deal? This is a billion-dollar deal. How do you motivate it? Why are you doing such a big deal right now? Thank you.
The question was, for the benefit of everyone, why are we doing this big kind of acquisition right now, and how do we motivate it? We are long term, so our goal is to grow in renewable packaging. We have communicated before in our strategy that, for instance, in Packaging Materials, which is the asset-heavy part of our business, it's mainly through conversions and organic growth and debottlenecking of our existing assets. In Packaging Solutions, which is asset-light, we are looking for a good strategic fit of our business. As we can see right now, this opportunity came. We are in a good kind of financial situation, so we have headroom with our leverage position.
We believe that this is a long-term, really important step for us to be in growing market, important market for the products that De Jong and our combined kind of asset footprint in containerboard can provide. We want to grow with our customers. We know that De Jong is very appreciated by the customers. They have a very solid offering and have a lot of value add products, good services, a growth mindset. These are all capabilities that match very well our own culture. We have the opportunity now to do this. The target came, or De Jong company came out on the market.
The owner was willing to sell and wanted the company to be part of our company, which we are of course very honored and happy about that we could reach this kind of agreement, pending of course approval from authorities. It's a good timing for us to take the next step in Packaging Solutions.
[Foreign language]
If I answer in Swedish first. The question was if there are any personnel effects on employees and we are not having any such discussions. [Foreign language]
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As a reminder for further questions, please press star and one. We kindly recommend all questioners to ask their questions in English. The next question is a follow-up question from Cole Hathorn from Jefferies. Please go ahead.
Thanks for taking the follow-up. Is there any data you can share on their market shares in the box market, in their various regions? Anything would be helpful. Thank you.
They, the market share in fresh products, for instance, is 10%. As we know in the Netherlands and the Benelux area. As we know, these are fragmented markets, so the main benefits are of course in the integration benefits. Then for us, we will move up to a mid-sized kind of integrated corrugating. For us, we will significantly improve the position of our company in these segments. Then I should perhaps kind of I answered the previous question in Swedish. For the benefit of everyone getting equal information, I would just say that the question was about the personnel and if there are any overlaps and I say there are not major overlaps. The main synergies are in the product and sourcing and customer pipeline side.
The leadership team is also staying on from De Jong side. Of course we are very happy to have everyone on board since they have proven track record of doing M&A, executing on M&As and also growing organically. This is combined with our capability as a company, a very good match and where we can find kind of with our financial power and our muscles, we will enable continued growth.
This concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Annica Bresky for any closing remarks.
Well, thank you very much for a lot of good questions. We hope to be able to come back to you as we progress with this case and hopefully a positive also regulatory and kind of approval of this in the beginning of next year, we will be able to share with you a more insight on how we will drive the integration. For us, this is a very important step now in executing on our strategy to accelerate growth within renewable packaging and in this case specifically corrugated packaging. We are acquiring one of the largest corrugated packaging producers in the Benelux area, adding sales of almost a little bit above EUR 1 billion in sales.
Of course, this strengthens our footprint in an area where we today do not have significant footprint and access to markets in Benelux, in Germany and the U.K.. These are competitive and growing segments, so we view these long term, and we have a company that have demonstrated very strong growth track record, both organically and through M&As. These are capabilities that we believe complement our packaging solutions business in a very good way. Of course, pending a positive conversion decision in Langerbrugge, we see an excellent fit here with a closeness to the corrugated mills to drive our business and accelerate that part of the business in renewable packaging even more. With that, I thank you very much for all the questions and wish you a nice day.