Good morning from Espoo, and welcome to the Suominen Q4 and full year 2025 results call. My name is Anu Heinonen. I work as the Communications and Marketing Director at Suominen, and I will be facilitating the call today. Joining me are our President and CEO, Charles Héaulmé, and CFO, Janne Silonsaari, who will present our results and also go through our newly published Full Potential program and operating model. Charles and Janne, the floor is yours.
Thank you. Good morning to all of you. So, we will go through the results of the fourth quarter and the full year 2025, and then go through the financial review in more detail, as Anu was saying. So if we start with a summary of our results, which are summarized in the title, that says it all. Our results are unsatisfactory, both in the fourth quarter and the full year 2025, in a challenging environment, but also linked to our internal performance. If I first focus on the fourth quarter of 2025, our net sales decreased by 20% versus 2024 same period, and the main aspects were linked to customers, particularly in the U.S., temporarily increasing their supply and imports from low-cost countries.
That was also resulting from supply issues in our factories, particularly in the U.S.. As a consequence of this lower volume, the EBITDA was EUR 1.9 million for the quarter. The cash flow was EUR 7 million, and that drives to a full year 2025, where the net sales altogether decreased by 11% versus 2024, 2025 , sorry versus 2024. The comparable EBITDA decreased to a level of twelve point six million euro. The cash flow was EUR 12.2 million. As you know, end of Q2, we had launched a cost-saving program that was aiming at EUR 10 million benefit over 24 month. And we may come back to this later. This cost-saving program is proceeding and continues into 2026.
Really important to mention, and we mentioned it, of course, in our Q3 call, but still in this one, in terms of the impact on the full year results, we had two major incidents in our U.S. plants, during the third quarter and the fourth quarter, that affected our ability to supply during those quarters. With an interruption of three months in one factory, in one line of one factory, and a flooding in another factory, that meant losing a relatively significant inventory, which hampered our supply to customers. So with these disappointing results, the Board of Directors is proposing to the Annual General Meeting that no dividend shall be distributed for the financial year 2025.
Based also on this situation, we have assessed precisely, deeply our situation and have decided to launch a three-year performance improvement program aiming at profitability increase to reach our full potential within the next three years. I'll come back to this, but first, we will go into more details on the financial results with our CFO, Janne.
All right. Good morning from my behalf as well, and we start from the net sales. Net sales reflected lower volumes and currency effects, and we will open this split in the next slide. As Charles mentioned on Q4, net sales decreased by 20% and were roughly EUR 95 million. As Charles already mentioned, we have had a supply interruptions, and that prompted some U.S. customers to temporarily seek alternative sources, which is visible in the top line. Altogether, full year 2025 net sales decreased by 11% and were EUR 412 million. Again, we'll follow up the impact split on the next slide, including currency impact.
Share of the new products out of the total net sales has been decreasing with the lower sales volume, so this has been impacting also negatively through the profit due to the product mix and impacting on our EBITDA. Yes, and here we have the Q4 2025 versus 2024 and full year 2024 impact on the net sales. So organic impact includes basically volume, price, and mix impact. These exceptional events refer to the Q3 incidents at our U.S. plants, as Charles was mentioning, and then further impact on Q4. And then the currency impact is mainly related to the euro/USD conversion rate. Okay, as it says, the comparable EBITDA affected by the exceptional incidents during the Q3, and then the reflection and continuation on Q4.
Comparable EBITDA, excuse me, total at EUR 1.9 million in Q4. Main reason for the decrease was lower sales volume. Also, mix impacted negatively, as mentioned. While sales prices were slightly lower in Q4, lower raw material prices offset partly the margin impact. Full year comparable EBITDA was EUR 12.6 million, compared to EUR 17 million previous year, and as said, the big impact was on the latter part of the year by the incidents we faced at the U.S. plants in Q3, and negative impact continued in Q4 as stated earlier. Yes, and here is still the consolidated statement of profit and loss. And the main impact on the so-called one-off items or items affecting comparability were related to the restructuring program, and then a very small impact from the Mozzate plant closure.
There is a small impairment loss of EUR 0.4 million coming from just basically asset write-off of old product line. So the main impact really on the restructuring program costs that is ongoing. Cash flow from operations amounted to EUR 7 million in Q4 and EUR 12.2 million for full year. So the main contribution was coming from the net working capital, where we have been able to improve, especially on the accounts receivable side, partly driven, of course, by the lower sales, and then on the inventories, which total have been impacting positively at the net working capital side and then through that to the cash flow from operations.
This is in a way positive if we consider the low profit and general low performance we have had. That's it from my side. So Charles, with the Full Potential Program, go ahead.
Thank you. Thank you, Janne. So I would like to first give a little bit of context, because the Full Potential Program is not just based on the unsatisfactory results of 2025. When we assess and look at our performance over years, and you can see on the chart that is projected over a period of about 10 years, we basically as a Suominen business, didn't provide growth. That's the first point. Actually, if we compare to the baseline 2018, the sales are declining 4%, including volume and pricing. And in addition, and more significantly even, the profitability has been declining a lot from the peak of the best years, 2020, 2021, which we know were pushed by the demand during the COVID period at 10%-13% EBITDA.
We are down since four years to the level of 3% EBITDA, which obviously is not enough for a company like ours to deliver to shareholders, but also to deliver investment to the future. The key point here is that we consider that all our shareholders are expecting a different perspective. All our shareholders, but also all our stakeholders. Our customers continue to see Suominen as an innovation and sustainability leader, but consider that we are far too inconsistent in our production performance, and therefore, that has driven to more imports from alternative supply. Also, employees still being loyal and willing to engage strongly are also showing fatigue with this situation that is deteriorating results. Therefore, it is our mandate to change the trajectory of the company and to do that quickly.
That's why we are entering and launching today the implementation of a Full Potential Program, which has as first absolute priority, resetting the profitability. Then we will look into later scaling the business. But the question of the capacity and the growth is secondary versus resetting the profitability and therefore also providing cash out of our business, net net. That means that for the next three years, our absolute focus is on profitability, at the same time as reconsidering the culture of accountability of our company, to make sure that we have a culture of accountability. In history, all companies that have successfully turned around a business have done it also, and not only with business actions, but also with being very clear on their company culture. And that's why we have already initiated some work on this.
This to say that if we want to build Suominen in the right way for the future, we need basically three dimension. We need to have the right culture, what we call the Suominen culture of accountability. Already started the launch, as I was saying. We need the right focus on key priorities, which are about our full potential on the operations, the cost competitiveness, and driving profitable growth with our installed capacity, not with new capacity, with our installed capacity. This is our, this is our priorities and the focus we need to have. But we also need to have the right operating model. And why am I saying that?
It's because we are entering into a transformation phase, and if we want to have a rapid transformation and an effective transformation, we need to have an organization that is dedicated to driving expertise and effectiveness, also securing the very disciplined execution of this Full Potential program that we are launching, today. And that's why we have announced this morning also to change our operating model. I will come back to that. But first, about the focus we have in the Full Potential program. We are basically our situation today is not one problem, it's a combination, and therefore, it's not just one action that's going to change the trajectory, it's about turning all the stones without any exceptions.
So we are looking and continuing to look at the fixed cost competitiveness, together, changing the operating model, which will have an impact also on the fixed cost reduction. Second, we're looking into procurement, obviously, so direct and indirect supply savings. Third and foremost, the production efficiency and output. This is our priority number 1, where we have the biggest benefit to get. We need also to look at our portfolio pricing and business development. The point in the portfolio, we have some low-margin business that needs to be managed. And as already said, we will not be able to drive all of this if we don't have a very clear culture of accountability, and without also a very engaged and committed workforce. That's why our deliverables for 2028, our objectives are basically summarized as follows: 5 key objectives. First, safety.
We are delivering a good performance in safety. Very few accidents in our 7 factories, but the goal is 0 accident, obviously. Second, we want to grow with our existing capacity. Third, we want to raise the EBITDA profitability from 3% to 10% by 2028. We want to reduce our leverage, which is approximately 6 or the ratio 6 of net debt over our EBITDA at the end of 2025. We want to reduce it in the corridor of 2-3 times, and we want to raise our employee engagement up to 80%, meaning above industry benchmark. This will not happen alone. We have major initiatives already standing up, and we will need the internal and external capabilities to do that.
That's why we are temporarily supporting ourselves with external experts, both on the manufacturing side and also on the other aspects, other streams of the business, like the strategy, commercial excellence, procurement, and the organization. We have an expert consultant helping us on the shop floor into our factories, with a focus on, you know, in the factories where most of the benefits are foreseeable, and that has just started in the month of January. At the same time, we are planning to build internal capabilities in order to, of course, not being dependent on external resources over time, and we are standing up particularly the capabilities in the strategic and transformation organization. This program will also require some investment.
Investment into a transformational operational cost over the next 3 years, estimated to be approximately EUR 10 million, and also some focused CapEx investments. I want to remind that these CapEx investments are not for a capacity, they are for restoring our installed base to industry standard and upgrading this equipment where necessary. We estimate this to be EUR 20 million needed, on top of our normal investment for maintenance. So that would be the program would have a cost of roughly EUR 30 million over the next 3 years. But as said before, it's not enough to have the right focus and the right culture. We need to have an operating model that is helping us to be more effective and more expert in what we are doing.
There is nothing wrong with the organization that we have had for several years, the geographical organization. It works very well in many contexts, but I don't believe that in a company where we have only one business, and therefore the opportunity to have a relatively simple and streamlined organization, when we need to engage into a forceful transformation like now, I think we need to have a more focused and dedicated organization, experts in all the parts that are the engine of our business. And what I mean is t he engine of the business being customers and factories for supplying our customers, and that's why the decision has been made to come to a globally functional organization with this engine of the business, customers, factories, being exactly reflected in the internal responsibilities with a Chief Commercial and Technology Officer, and a Chief Operating Officer.
This is streamlining the Executive Committee. Then we have three support functions that is also streamlined so that we are as efficient as possible in the Executive Committee. So this is effective on the 1st of February, so basically immediately. I want to make a disclaimer extremely important: when we globalize the leadership of the commercial function, it does not mean that we get out of the local sales organization.
The name of the game to be successful is to be close to customers, and therefore we're not restructuring anything on our sales team in terms of where they are located. They need to be close to our customers and being customer-centric. So this is more about the global management being streamlined and focused on a specific expertise and effectiveness level. Which brings me to show you now the Suominen leadership team that will be effective on the 1st of January, 2026, with the key changes being that Markku Koivisto, who is today the EVP Region Europe, Middle East, Africa, is taking charge for as Chief Commercial and Technology Officer. He is today already the CTO, so from that point of view, it's a logical combination.
It's a very logical combination as, you know, most of the discussions and strategic agenda with customers have to do with supplier reliability, competitiveness, and innovation transition from non-plastic solutions, and therefore, the combination of being the chief commercial and the chief technology is actually quite powerful, and Markku's profile is enabling this. The second change is that the COO, Francois Guetat, who started in the company, who is a manufacturing expert, who started in the company in November, we are broadening his role by not being just functional, but he will be in direct command of all the factories, the safety, the engineering, the procurement, and supply chain. That's what I call driving with these two positions, expertise and effectiveness, into how we drive the business.
Of course, the essential success factor will be in the working together with the same clear, aligned objectives, which are already on the table. Then we are appointing also Marika Väkiparta, who was already reporting to me, as VP Transformation. We are appointing her into the Suominen leadership team, into this streamlined team, as of 1st of February. Then our CFO, Janne Silonsaari, and I had discussed openly some month ago on our company situation, the need of a radical transformation and also on his personal goals, and came to the conclusion that he was also keen on exploring new opportunities. We decided to therefore search for a new CFO, and we have appointed Kimmo Raunio as our new CFO.
Kimmo will join us, latest on the 1st of June, likely a little bit earlier in the month of May. Kimmo is joining us from the Fortaco Group, where he works since 13 years, and 10 out of these 13 years as CFO and Deputy CEO. Kimmo has a strong track record in the industrial manufacturing sector and at executive level, because 10 years as CFO, and also driving turnaround, productivity, activities, and he has experience of both the private equity environment, and also listed company, as Fortaco is managed, according to the listed company governance since a couple of years. So welcoming Kimmo later in the first semester, and then we will wish Janne all the best for the future. Janne will continue as CFO until Kimmo comes in.
Which brings me to conclude this by saying that our focus is now on resetting the company profitability. We will not focus on scaling our business now. Of course, we will do that later, but first and foremost, it's about resetting our capability to deliver good profit and cash flow. Then after that, we will scale the company. The future strategic orientation will be analyzed later this year, once we have initiated our key resetting activities. And we will, of course, keep you updated when and if we have any strategic direction change going forward. Ending the presentation with our outlook statement, where we are saying for 2026 that we expect the comparable EBITDA to, in 2026, improve versus 2025.
Thank you, Charles and Janne, and now let's open the line for questions.
If you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial pound key six on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Joni Sandvall from Nordea. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks, Charles and, Janne, for the presentation. Maybe starting with the Q4 questions. I'm just thinking, you said 2.4, was it 2.4, 2.8 million that you lost sales due to this incidents in Q4, in Q3. How large risk you see that this situation continues, that your customers are still continuing to use the alternative sources going into 2026?
Yeah, this is a good question. This event, the second—I mean, the. Let's be precise. The two—in the two events, the first one, which was a major breakdown in a factory in the U.S., created a basically three-month interruption of production of one major line. This is over, the normal consequence, this is all back to normal business. The second event was a flooding in another U.S. factory, and because of this flooding, and because of the significant inventory lost, inventory of finished goods, then particularly one customer had to drive towards alternative supply at that time in order to comply with the demand on the market, and it, and it's a growing customer.
So that means that some importing from low-cost country, as a result, meant, you know, not a long-term contract, but, long term from our point of view, a couple of months, which means that it will also impact Q1, and we will be back in normal, absolutely normal order pattern, in April. So Q1, we still foresee for that specific event, the same level of, direct impact on the sales.
Okay. Okay, that's clear. Then, given the weak volumes that you are currently having, and as you said, you are aiming for fixed cost reductions, are you considering any adjustments to capacity, going forward? And if you could give any color on your operating rates currently?
So number one, I would say we are, obviously, if we would keep exactly the same volume as 2025 going forward, then we have clearly too much capacity. We have too much capacity with the capacity installed, but on top, we are launching, we are starting the commercial production early second quarter on our new line in Spain, so we would clearly have too much capacity. So very clearly, that would need to drive towards a capacity adjustment. However, we are in a market where we have growth, a low single-digit growth in Europe, also in the U.S. and in Brazil.
However, with a category, the MTT, the moisturized toilet tissue in the U.S. that is growing at high single digit, the demand is high, and we expect also some growth in other regions. And that means that we are in a context where we should receive more demand. Third, let's remember that our volume 2025 is linked to the big impact of three things. Number one, the trade regulation, the trade policy evolution that has meant a disruption in the first semester with huge imports from China, basically in the first quarter. That has disrupted a lot, the first semester volume. Second, our two events in the U.S. factories that I just mentioned before, those meant a pretty significant reduction of our volume.
This volume from the event is back into 2026, so we should see growth in 2026. Then if we don't see enough growth or if we want, you know, to drive further competitiveness, you know, looking at the manufacturing footprint is, of course, not excluded.
Okay. Okay, that's clear. Then going on the, on the profitability improve programs, maybe firstly on the, on the EUR 10 million program, how, what was the, run rate in, in Q4? And, maybe secondly, on the, on the new program, how should we think about, you know, the bridge towards the 10% target? And here, I mean, is there more material uplift when you have completed these, EUR 20 million CapEx investments, which maybe then points more towards the end of the, of, the target period?
Yeah. So, several questions in one. So the EUR 10 million program, run rate end of 2025, roughly, EUR 5 million impact in 2025 PNL, roughly 2.5 million versus 2024. That's, that's one thing. It is continuing. We are continuing the effort on reducing cost, and when I'm talking about those numbers, it's. I'm talking fixed cost only, okay? So we have also reduced the and done some cost reduction on the, on the procurement, and we'll continue or even accelerate. Now, what will happen with this EUR 10 million program? It's not a program that is going to live its own life on the side of the Full Potential program.
The Full Potential program is taking over, in a much broader scale, this specific cost-saving program, which will be embedded into the overall program. Then your question about the investments in the factories, that will have, indeed a more, let's say, weighted impact towards 2027, 2028, because, this is about restoring some of our factories to the basic industry standards, which we have lost over years of lacking maintenance in those factories, or upgrading some equipment, automating, and that will bring more benefits into 2027, 2028. Which may bring me to say, because it may be a suggestive question into what you ask, in your—in our—if you, if you draw a trajectory from the 3% EBITDA to the 10% EBITDA, do we see a linear progression? Likely not. Okay?
It's not a front-loading program because of the reason is that the main part of the benefits will come from the manufacturing improvements, and that does not come overnight, obviously.
Okay, that's clear. Maybe one more question on the operating model. You are clearly targeting higher accountability on the, you know, PNL responsibility, while simultaneously bringing the commercial functions together. You said that you are keeping the sales teams, but now with the COO commanding all the factories, I'm just thinking, is there a risk that there is too many layers now between, you know, customers and, you know, factories in the new operating model?
No. No, we're not increasing the layers at all. Absolutely not. On the contrary, the fact that we organize this operating model differently is an opportunity to improve drastically our S&OP process. That's the number one thing. So that's where the factories will, the customers will first benefit from the change. The second thing is, if you ask any of our customer what is their main pain point with Suominen, it is the fact that we are not reliable in supply. Why aren't we reliable in supply? Is because we have too many breakdowns and efficiency problem in our factories, and we need, therefore, a very expert and a clear line of command, which we didn't have with the original organization. By definition, an end-to-end geographical responsibility doesn't bring expertise.
It brings harmonization eventually, but it doesn't bring expertise into each aspect. And our customers, I have just now spoken to one customer, and he was like, "Wow, fantastic! This is exactly what Suominen needs.
Okay. Okay, perfect. Thanks. That's all from me.
The next question comes from Joonas Ilvonen from Evli. Please go ahead.
Hi, it's Joonas from Evli. If I can just come back to this market growth rate you just discussed. So you did say that U.S. moist toilet tissue market is growing at a high single digit rate, right? And then I think you said Europe is growing at a low single digit rate. Is that correct?
Yes, that's exactly what I said. You know, if you look at the world, if you take our portfolio, the majority of our portfolio is baby wipes. An interesting part of our portfolio, particularly in the U.S., is the so-called MTT, moisturized toilet tissue, which is big in the U.S. and small in the rest of the world. Likely, if you think about, you know, long-term, this is a category that is likely going to grow also in the rest of the world, but right now, very relevant in the U.S.. If you look at the world, there is, everybody knows, a demographic crack in the world. There are fewer and fewer baby. The nativity is going down. So what we see in terms of shift in the market is baby wipes slightly declining in volume.
Not dramatically, but slightly declining everywhere. Then you have other products like, you know, senior applications for elder people in terms of wipes and other nonwoven applications increasing. And then the category of MTT is the one growing at a pace that is high single digit in the U.S.. So that's, that's the most relevant growth we see right now.
Okay, and the U.S. market as a whole is maybe like mid-single digit growth or?
Yeah. Mid is small, mid-single digit growth. Yeah.
Okay. And if I can come back to Europe, I mean, so in the U.S., you had these supply disruptions, but also in your European figures were maybe slightly lower than expected. So was it mainly like these low-cost imports again, that, like, affected your European figures?
Yeah, this is... You know, we have a very big internal headache that I mentioned very clearly, which is our production and supply efficiency and reliability. And the external headache is the fact that there is, in this global market, there is capacity, there is overcapacity. Therefore, it's important that we are in a growing market, because there is today too many alternatives, and that is also hampering our volume in 2025, also in Europe.
Okay. Then Q4 sales margins and also going forward. So now the nonwovens prices decreased, but also raw materials prices decreased. I mean, previously, your sales margins developed favorably, but what was the net effect? Did they decline now? Did they only decline now with the nonwovens price, even though raw materials prices?
I'm not sure to have got on your question, is whether our margins have declined? No, our margins have slightly increased. And that's on the back of a better sourcing and procurement activities. Our big issue is the volume, but otherwise, the margin, the variable margin has actually slightly increased in 2025.
Okay. Then another question on these CapEx investments. So are these focused on the U.S. or Europe or both? I mean, I understand that these are, like, relatively small and straightforward upgrade investments across your manufacturing network. Is that correct?
Yeah. I anticipate that the majority will be in the U.S., but not all of what we need to do in this Full Potential program. In the factories, the majority of the investments will be in the U.S. factories, yeah.
Okay, bye. No problem.
The next question comes from Samu Wilhelmsson from Nordea Markets. Please go ahead.
Hi, Samu from Nordea. Thanks for the presentation. Maybe just a big, big question regarding, let's say, near-term capital allocation. 'Cause you have presented the targets for balance sheet metrics for 2028. But in the near term, how you're seeing you doing efforts in the balance sheet? 'Cause, I mean, given weak profitability and margin pressure, how are you, for example, approaching leverage and refinancing risks in the near term, given that you have a senior bond that is maturing in 18 months?
Yes, thanks, thanks for the question, and that is, of course, very, very relevant in this position. So, as a reminder, our senior bond is maturing in June 2027. And, naturally, we are looking all the options ongoing, so do not close. Of course, you know, we are not disclosing here that we will do this or that. When the time comes, if, and, you know, when that would take place, then we will come out as supposedly. But the question is, of course, on the table that since we know that there will be items where we need to invest, that what would be the financial items?
We are not ready to disclose yet any of the items, but yes, you are asking the right question in that sense, that all those opportunities are on the table, and we are considering and reviewing those carefully.
Okay. But for example, given that where you are at the moment with the balance sheet and the profitability, you don't see any immediate refinancing risks?
Well, I would say that if you're asking the direct risk, no, it's not a direct risk, no. But at the same time, it is something that, yes, we consider and follow carefully. So, this is, of course, naturally in this kind of situation where the target is much lower if we are talking about, for example, the leverage and the balance sheet overall, then it's an item where we are having a constant discussion with all the relevant stakeholders. And it is ongoing discussion, and we are looking for the, let's say, ways to improve the situation and bringing back, let's say, on at normal level. So, it's very much in our focus, definitely.
All right. Thank you very much.
The next question comes from Rauli Juva from Inderes. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi, Rauli from Inderes here. My colleagues asked already most of the relevant questions, but maybe still coming back on the volume or sales decline for the full year of 2025. How much of that would you kind of in total describe as temporary losses related mostly to the U.S. issues with Paris and production that you are expecting to regain in 2026, and what proportion is perhaps related to more permanent kind of losses or, yeah?
I would say that, yes, the majority is temporary in essence. There is always a risk when you, because of this temporary issue, you let other alternatives enter-
Mm-hmm.
-that these alternatives are further, you know, used. So,
Mm-hmm.
It would be a speculation, and that's why on a previous question, I said prudently that we're going to monitor the growth. That we see growth coming, yes, but we're going to monitor the recovery in order to understand whether this requires capacity or adaptation or not. It's too early to say at this point, but we are-
Yeah, sure
... very precisely looking at that. Yeah.
Okay. Yeah, that's, that's fair. There may be a few questions, more the numbers side on CapEx. Firstly, is the EUR 25 million you spent last year a decent proxy going forward, given the additional full potential investments, or what kind of annual level should we be expecting?
No, I mean, let's remember, I will let Janne comment. The EUR 25 million of 2025 is including an important capacity investment in Spain. Our new line that will be up and running as of early second quarter. And as I said before, we are not planning any capacity investments going forward in the next couple of years. Therefore, what we're talking about in terms of investments going forward is the business as usual maintenance, plus the necessary investment for the Full Potential program. How much the total means per year, I would relatively prudently say that it will be between EUR 10 million and EUR 20 million, lower than EUR 20 million, and unlikely more in the middle than closer to EUR 20 million, per year.
Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay, thanks.
Anything to add then on?
No, I think that Charles captured it, and if looking without the expansion investments that we have had within the couple of previous years, then, you know, the trend-wise, the let's say, called maintenance improvement type of investments, have been ±EUR 10 million, even below in the past years. Going forward, of course, an area which we need to take very, very, you know, carefully, due to the fact that Charles has been mentioning a few times, that we ensure the production efficiency and also reliability. But nothing further to add.
Yeah, that's clear. And then, finally, maybe to you as well, Janne, the level of receivables is quite lower. Was quite low. We discussed last quarter that you've done some arrangements there, but is this like a normal level now going forward, which you have had in the second half of the year, or is there something unusual?
Yes, so I remember you asked last time, and I confirmed that, yes, we do have this supply chain financing with some of the customers, and we have also this accounts receivable selling, let's say, readiness for certain customers that we are utilizing with the chosen ones. Main impact, of course, coming also from the lower sales, but all those together.
Mm-hmm
Then we have been focusing very much on, you know, collecting the receivables, you know, early and, let's say, implementing shorter payment terms where applicable. So, I would say that if and when the sales will increase, I'm expecting that will drive also the receivables up, but in relation we are, we are looking for, yes, the more optimized level going forward as well.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, that's clear. That's all for me. Thanks.
As a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad. There are no more phone questions at this time, so I hand the conference back to the speakers for any written questions or closing comments.
Thank you. As there are no written questions, I would like to thank you all for this call, and welcome you to join us to hear about our first quarter performance on Mesa. Thank you all, and have a good day.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Bye-bye. Bye.