M&A Announcement

Sep 29, 2020

Slides

Okay. Welcome everybody to Valmet's press conference regarding Valmet's proposal to start discussions on a statutory merger between Valmet and Neles. My name is Pekka Rohenen. I'm Head of the Investor Relations at Valmet. And with me today are Pasi Leine, Valmet's CEO and Karisarinen, CFO. Today's agenda is so that Pasi will first go through what Valmet and Neles are today and then what kind of combination these two components will be together. This call can be listened as an audiocast from Valmet's website, where you can also follow the slideshow that Pasi will be presenting. And after the presentations, you will have a chance to ask questions over the conference call phone lines from Pasi and Karri. So Pasi, please go ahead. Okay. Thank you, Pekka. So like Pekka said, we are talking here about Valmet's proposal to start discussions on statutory merger between Valmet and Neles. And we have approached today Board of Directors of Nelet with a proposal to start a potential statutory merger between Valmet and Nelet, so discussions on a potential statutory merger. Like we announced in June, we bought about 15% of Nelle shares from Solidium. Then we said that we'll continue to buy shares when it suits to us, And that's what we have been doing. And today, we have approached Board of Directors Neles with a proposal. We see that the combination of the two companies in the long term would create excellent value both for Valemetz and Neles shareholders. And then like you all know, a statutory merger between the companies require negotiations between the two companies. Even if such negotiations are initiated, there is no certainty that there will be a final result and agreement. So what is my content is first Valmed strategy and development to give a little bit background to our thinking, then what kind of company Valmet is today, then Nellis today and its strategy, then combinations of Valmet and Nellis together. So if we start from Valmet, so you all know this, but I want to give a little bit background of our thinking. So we have been having the same strategy now for six years or actually seven years. So converting renewable resources into sustainable results, we have developed a company where strategy is practical and our must win implementation is coherent and we cascade the target setting and execution down. And with this quite disciplined approach, we have been able to increase the financial performance and currently the financial targets are such that we target to grow our stable business two times the market growth. We target also to have an EBITA between 10% to 12%. Our return of capital employed target is to be before return of capital before taxes over 20% and dividend policy, dividend payout at least 50% of the net profit. So those are the current targets, which you will then think later on when we go to a combination story. Now how has Valmed been performing since 2013? So our orders received has been growing from EUR 2,200,000,000.0 to EUR 4,000,000,000, and now LTM is actually a little bit over EUR 4,000,000,000. Our comparable EBITDA has been growing from EUR 50,000,000 to $320,000,000 in LTM roughly. And our comparable EBITDA margin has been improving from 2% to close to 9%. So a solid track record of developing Valomed's original business and also the acquired businesses. Total shareholder return since the demerger has been 328% and annualized total shareholder return 24%. So reasonable background per results in our execution. No. Our acquisition strategy has been that we want to, of course, first of all, have a strong focus on organic growth and then be selective in acquisitions. The themes have been to strengthen services, like we made acquisition of J and L and then strengthening also the pulp paper energy value chain, where examples are BNP Group, which acquisition has been signed now in September and J and L B, which we acquired in 2019. Then in strengthening automation, of course, the first part was that we bought automation in 2015. And since 2016 up to 2019, we have been able to grow the business nicely. And like you see here, also the package sales, which is the internal sales we have in our technology packages, has been growing from €38,000,000 and actually it was even less earlier to €57,000,000 So we have a track record of growing and also track record of growing the internal sales with the acquired automation business. And of course, one of the topic has been to think how to strengthen our automation business in the future. Now Valvek today, like you know, we are number one in paper, Paper meaning Paper, Board and Tissue. Our market share roughly is 40% on that segment. In Pulp and Energy, we are number one to two to three, depending on the market, and our market share is varying between 20% to 40%. In paper, board and pulp, we are the other one of two major players. So the market dominance is quite high of these two players. In services, we are either number one or two and we have strong position in serving pulp, paper and energy customers. Our market share in services is roughly 17% from the global market. In automation, in systems, our market position in pulp and paper is one to two and then of course in total in the systems business we are a small player. About 70% of our business comes from pulp and paper industry and 30% from the energy industries. Globally, we are strong having 100 service centers, 16 R and D centers as examples. And in sustainability, we have been strong, so six years in row in Dow Jones Sustainability Index. 2019 numbers, orders received about EUR 4,000,000,000 net sales about EUR 3,500,000,000.0 comparable EBITDA EUR $316,000,000 and EBITA margin 8.9% and gearing about minus 23%. And this is on June 2020. And net debt, minus €223,000,000 meaning that in the June, we our balance sheet was very strong. We employed about 13,600 people. Geographically, North America, about 20% EMEA, 40% and the rest are coming from the growth markets. Service and automation, less than half this year, last year, traditionally close to half, and the rest has been coming from the technology businesses. Now that was the summary of Valmed. Then when we go to Neles today. So Neles is a strong niche player with a especially solid position in certain segments of the valve markets. It has diversified valves offering, diversified steel meaning that it has very high quality valves offering. So, it is supplying valves for demanding applications both for control applications and onoff applications. And on top of that, of course, digital controllers and softwares to help in managing digital controllers. It has good market position, pulp and paper, number one. It's very strong in pulp, not as strong in paper. And the origin is coming from the same roots where our origin is coming from. Oil and gas, they are number four to five and in chemicals, number seven. They have balanced global presence, about 2,900 employees. They have globally balanced footprint. They have factories in all the major continents, so one here in Finland, one Finland, one big one in The U. S, now two bigger ones in China and smaller ones in other countries like in Germany and Korea. And they have good services network close to the same customer base where we are operating as well. Their focus has been on safety and reliability. So from environmental perspective, the valves, which Millers are doing, are playing very important role in reducing energy consumption, reducing emissions and improving the efficiency and safety of customer production units. So strong niche player in ballast market. And then if we look at the numbers, so orders received last year were EUR681 million net sales about EUR660 million comparable EBITDA, EUR97 million comparable EBITDA margin, EUR14.6 million like I said, about 2,900 employees. Geographically, about 40% coming from 36% coming from Europe, Middle East and Africa. America is about 40% and the rest coming from Asia Pacific. Industry wise, 37% are coming from oil and gas and industrial gas. So industrial gas being, according our information, a little bit over 10% and then gas about 10% abreast in refining, so about 10% to 12% from refining. Petrochemical, 21%, others 1626% coming from the common industry, which we serve pulp and paper. And like you all know, Melez has good track record for growth and potential to grow further. It's a developed company that has been growing nicely several years. And here is the growth number from 2016 to 2019, and the growth number is 7.8. So good track record. Nellis has been growing by the market, but it has been gaining also market share by expanding in selected markets and product offering. It has been building up the services business and services centers closer to customers. It has it will and continue to accelerate growth in valve controls and actuators. And then, of course, Neles has an opportunity to execute targeted acquisition, which support these initiatives. So good track record and possibility to continue the good growth. Now how then Valmet and Nellis would look together? We are saying that it would be a winning combination creating future success. So Valmed and Nellis together would be a Nordic based global leader with unique offering for process industries. So very strong in process technologies, paper pulp and energy, which I described earlier, strong in services and strong in automation as well. Automation meaning systems business and valves business. So the combination would be systems number one to two in pulp and paper. In systems and in valves, quite clear, the number one. It would have growth potential in non pulp and paper industries, so energy and process industries, where currently about 30% of our automation business is coming from and about 70% of valves business is coming from. There would be very good growth part for those segments together. And as a total company, it would be large share of recurring business, and stable business. It would be a solid platform to grow and develop all businesses, process technologies, services and automation. It would have very strong confidence and reputation amongst customers. So we all we have a lot of products, and we would have a lot of products to which customers have long tradition to trust on and good personnel customers are trusting on as well. And then, of course, we would have very nice winning team with shared heritage and performance orientation. The unique offering would be unique. So, process technology wise, paper, pulp and energy, so machines, tissue machines, paper machines, pulp mills, multi fuel boilers, environmental systems, good coverage of services, spare parts, production consumables, maintenance, shutdown, outsourcing services, process support optimization, and then automation, very nice offering, having automation systems, valves and industrial Internet applications. So we would cover big part of the customer needs in the segments where we serve. And then, of course, with the products and technology we have, we could serve other customer segments as well, which is very much needed in automation and valves business. So not to focus only on those areas where we have technology offering, but to learn from there and create products there and sell even to other industries. It would have a stronger margin profile and globally balanced operation, So about 32% would be coming from services automation, 24% and process technologies, 44%. And these are illustrative numbers based on 2019 figures. So nice profile. Orders received would have been about EUR 4,700,000,000.0 last year net sales, about EUR 4,200,000,000.0 comparable EBITDA, EUR $413,000,000 comparable EBITDA margin, 9.8% Backlog would have been €3,600,000,000 and we would have employed 16,500 people. And then area wise, nice, solid structure, about 40% coming from EMEA, about a little bit more than 30% from Americas and 24% from Asia Pacific and China. So good balance geographically business wise and strong economical performance as well. One big part would be that the increased share of high margin and growing stable business increased share of high margin and growing stable business. So Valomed's stable business, including services and automation, has been growing from when we started from €1,000,000,000 and later on from €1,300,000,000 to €1,800,000,000 if we measure it with orders received. So about 8% growth with acquisitions and organically. Neles orders received at the same time has been growing about 4% starting from 2015. So this combined entity would have a stable business value wise EUR 2,500,000,000.0. So very big share of the revenue and order intake from future combined company would be coming from stable business, where we all know that it's more stable. Of course, we have to exclude COVID time, and then it's also higher margin business. Then if we think about automation, the combination would build very good platform to build automation further. So in valves, of course, we could continue to build an LS growth by expanding developing the technology further, expanding services network, expanding market position in Pulp and Paper, but of course, in other segments as well. In automation, we could continue to build Pulp and Paper. But then together with Neles, target more and more, Neles is saying, energy and hydrocarbon customers and then building services together. Then we could think about making acquisition to grow the automation business even further, including different kind of products automation products, instrumentation, analyzers and so on, to widen the portfolio of what we have now for automation. So combining the companies would create the start for building up the automation further and would create very nice platform to start from. Then if we think about Sunetsi potential, of course, we know the Sunetsi potential quite well. We know Neles, and we have been using also some ex Neles people to work with us to make sure that they understand the Zunetsi well. So we have revenue Zunetsi and cost Zunetsi. And in revenue Zunetsi, we could include Neles valves in our package sales. Neles is very strong in pulp, but Neles is not as strong in paper and board, where we are very strong. And like you saw what has happened in automation systems so we could think about making the same in paper and board for valves as well. Cross sales opportunities, bill improvement, energy projects and then, of course, automation cross sales between systems and valves. Services offering and services development, so we both have good services network close to the same customer base, and we could further grow the services offering and servicing operation if those businesses were combined. And then, of course, developing new offering based on the know how what we have. So we have good understanding and good belief that there would be a good revenue synergy between these two companies or by combining these two companies. Cost synergies, of course, function costs, taking into account that there would be only one listed company, we would need only one function in each of the function and two. So we have calculated those costs. Common location, we were part of same company early, and we were actually sharing the offices and locations some years back, and we could move back and gave some savings in common locations. And then, of course, strengthening the supply chain for both of us would give further savings potential and increase the cost synergies. And in technology, we could further continue or further develop the digitalization. So all the not all, but big part of the valves are attached with the intelligent positioner and that could be developed together with our system and system business and then different kind of tools, how to utilize the energy, the information could be developed together as well. And then, of course, there would be a very nice possibility for remote diagnostic and remote services for the combined technology. And not as or as an important point, we are also saying that the integration would be easy and low risk because we we know Nellis and Nellis knows us. We have same same kind of background, the same kind of same kind of culture in the company, so the integration would be easy and not painful and low risk from that perspective. And then we are saying that this combination would create value to all shareholders. So here's Nellis ownership divided so that Parliament owns 29.5, so roughly 30%. Then based on the analysis, what we have done, about 41% are shareholders with overlapping shareholding in Neles and Valomed. So having owning both companies. Then owners who own only Neles are about 29%, and that includes SEBI. So from this 41% about 21% is retail, 38% are institutions and 42% are registered shareholders. So we are, of course, thinking of the benefit of all the shareholders. But then, of course, the synergy, what we could create, would stay as a benefit, especially for the ones who are owners of both of the companies, which in this case is about 70% of Neles, 71% of Neles. And then, of course, the combination should be such that it gives also good benefit for the nonoverlocking shareholders as well. The shareholders would benefit from enhanced strategic position, large share of stable business, recurring and profitable services, automation systems and valves business. It would create nice platform to grow automation systems and valves business and then it would have financial capacity to execute on the strategy. It would have synergy potential, including revenue, technology development and cost synergies. We would have possibility to optimize the combined company's balance sheet. And one small but important part for retail is that the merger being a tax neutral structure for Finnish shareholders. Shareholders. So they would save quite much money by not paying to a taxman in Finland. So we are saying would create value to all shareholders in Valomed and in Neles. So as a summary, we are saying a statutory merger between Valomed and Neles would create a solid and strong Nordic based global leader, we believe that the merger provides the best potential for long term value creation for shareholders. Okay. Thank you, Pasi, for the presentations. And now we are ready to take questions over the phone lines. So operator, I hand over to you. Thank 01 on your telephone keypad now to enter the queue. Once the name is announced, you can ask your question. If you find your question is answered before it's your turn to speak, you can dial 02 to cancel. So once again, that's 01 to ask a question or 02 if you need to cancel. Our first question comes from the line of Sanvia of UBS. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Yeah. Good afternoon, and thanks for taking my questions. The first one is just on the timeline. I was wondering if you expect to announce some of the terms already before the October 22 so that maybe shareholders can compare the two? That's the first one. We have now approached Nellis' board, we are waiting for their response. So the time line is depending on, of course, on Nelly's board reaction and then how quickly the negotiations will continue. But is it your goal to have it hot before that? Can you repeat? No. Sorry. Is it your goal? I mean, are you are you trying to have it off? It's probably twenty seconds of our We can't set the call alone, so we work, I hope, well together with Nellis Port. Okay. Then the second one is a technical question. I'm conscious of this best price rule I think you have in Finland. I mean, does it also apply to this situation here that you would have to offer at least, you know, the highest price that you paid? Or does it not apply to this situation here? So hey, Sven. This is Carri here. So so, actually, there's no minimum price requirement here. So this requires now that that that we negotiate. And after that, then the Board of both companies approve the rules, but there's no minimum price requirement here. Okay. And then my last question, if I may, is just obviously, you now talked about revenue synergies, cost synergies without quantifying. But of course, we got the midterm target of Nelis by 2025. We're all aware of that. I mean and that's quite some growth on the top line side. I mean, how do you view those targets when you think about the synergies that you have? Do you think that makes that achievable? Or do you think those targets look conservative against what you have in mind? Or maybe you can elaborate on that one. I think that's, of course, will be part of the discussion with Nellisport as well. But I think there is room for a little bit tougher target set. Understood. Thank you very much. Thank you, sir. Thank you. You. And our next question comes from the line of Tom Skopin of Carnegie. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Yes. So most of my questions have already been answered, but I just wonder how you think that the share price is going down significantly again today, and there's a threat that you will have Neles owning almost half of Valmet. In the future, Valmet will contribute with less than 20% of sales and also earnings in my estimate. Of course, we have had quite often situation that when we announce something, the share price drops and then later on it recovers and goes even up. When talking about this size of proposal, then I wouldn't look at one day's reaction in the stock market. Where do you think the stock market is wrong? It's one source to look at also longer term views, how the market thinks. What is the market not getting with this? Because it looks like from the outside that your will be a Valmet shareholder will be heavily diluted in the future, and we cannot be certain that the peer group in valuation will change from Andrit and other type of companies supplying product in the future? Yes. So sorry, I lost my focus. I was somewhere else. It's a tough day. But of course, we are thinking about Valemet's shareholders' value creation all the time. That's our goal. And in long term, I think we have been improving that. That's what Valemet has been delivering. And then, of course, the structure, what we want to negotiate with Neles Board is such that both shareholders will be benefiting, only Neles shareholders. So of course, we are working for in this case, for Valomed, but then taking into account the interest of Nelle shareholders as well to find a amicable solution where both companies could combine and then start to work on the synergy impacts what which are to PC. All right. Thank you. Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Haider Olson of Forte. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Hi. Thank you for taking my question. I was I just was wondering on the timing from your side on this, Given that your first stake purchase was back in June before the restructuring of Metso, why didn't you just propose this initially with the first stake purchase? We had several parts which we thought that can happen. So one was that we are following the development of Neles, and we are developing it together with Neles being part of Neles board as well. And that was our original plan. Now then what happened was and then slowly increased our ownership in Neles. And then what happened was that there came the competing bid from Alfa Laval and also the fact that Neles' Board has made it very difficult for us to get to the Board of Neles. So then we had to a little bit accelerate the thinking process inside Valemet that what we have what we want to do, and that has been reason for the actions now. Okay. Thank you. Do you expect the Netherlands Board to be welcoming from this proposal given that in the past, they from what I understood now, they weren't that welcoming? I'm sure that they are very eager to talk about it because it's clearly showing the benefits of the merger to Nellis shareholders. And then, of course, they have obligation to talk with us. And I'm sure that the discussion and cooperation with Nellisport will be very good. Okay, thank you. Thank you. And our next question comes from the line of Nikol Matadaskanen of the Finnish News Agency. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Thank you for taking my question. I am interested of the terms of your proposal. So as we know, this merger proposal is parallel to another offer made by Alfa Laval, which offered 11.5 per share and total €1,700,000,000. So can we hear what is your offer going to be? Well, we have just proposed this merger now for for Neles board. And and and and then the terms and conditions are, of course, subject to the negotiations that we we hopefully start quite soon. But at the moment at the moment, we cannot cannot say anything anything else on this. Okay. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Sintra Soway of Arctic Asset Management. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Yes. Hi. Thanks for taking my questions. Just I mean, it's been partly answered, but from the outside, the deal looks a little unbalanced in the in the sense that we could look at the multiples, for instance, on enterprise value to EBIT it up to days at the current share prices, that the multiples are more than double for for Nelus or put it another way, Nelus shareholders end up with, let's say, between 3540% of the company, whereas whereas less than 20% of the revenue or sorry, the EBIT comes from Nelas, it would really require a lot of synergies there, I mean, north of EUR 100,000,000 quite short term. Is that realistic? No. Haven't announced Sunezhi figures now, and we, of course, want to talk about them with Nellis' Board. It's true that multipliers for Nellis are higher. And traditionally, it is so that automation companies are traded with higher multiplier. And then, of course, it's a question of negotiation that what kind of value Valemet share would have and LS share as well. And then when calculating the ownership, then one has to remember that we own about 29.5%. So that you need to take into account when thinking about to whom the value goes. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. And our next question comes from the line of Antti Suttelin from Danske Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Thank you. When I listen your synergy story, I get the picture that that these will be rather long term. Do do you think when you speak to Nellis' board of directors that that the board of directors could actually favor an offer made by Valmet, which could be even lower in initial value than that of of Alfa Laval's or, say, at least or at max on on on the same level in in the sense that you think you have such a great long term prospects that that they would outweigh long term a kind of an even smaller initial offer price? Duo, so first of all, this long term, short term, yes, I think the Zunetsis partly would actually come quite quickly. So quickly meaning in one to two years. So I'm sure that we can start to increase the share of the package sales in paper and board machines quite quickly. So part of them would come quickly and the integration benefits would come quickly as well. Then the longer term ones would be technology development, new product development and services development. So I see actually that there are synergies which could come quicker and then which would be coming later on. And I think it's very interesting point you are raising, and we will be very happy to discuss that with Nellia Sport that how they see the value of a competing bid where there's bid available now and then maybe not that good benefit for the shareholders longer term. And we, as Nelles Neles is a big shareholder, we think that the long term benefit is more important. And we hope to convey the same message to other investors who are long term investing in Valmet and Neles. And you think technically, purely technically, the Board at Neles could favor an offer which potentially could carry somewhat lower initial value? Is that technically possible for a board of a company? I think it depends on what kind of contract they have now made I'm I'm not capable on answering on that. Yeah, Antti. So it's, of course, impossible for us to say. And and and and and, of course, we our first target is now to go to negotiations and and do do the due diligence and after that, then then talk about the terms. But we are not yet there. Yes. I appreciate. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you. We've got one further question in the queue. So just as a reminder to participants, if you do wish to ask a question, please dial 01 now. And the next question comes from the line of Katipotiampalo of Bloomberg News. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Hi. I have two quick questions, really. The first is is why did you choose not to include any specific terms in your letter to Neles today? And then secondly, I'd like to ask how you plan to finance this merger? Thank you. Well, maybe the first one that that about put any specific terms. So, of course, we first wanted to go to the to the discussions with with the board and and then go through the the due diligence and and and then the terms come then later on. And then then about the second question related to the to to financing. So merger merger, of course, is is a merger and and and typically, there's no no no financing needed in this case. And and and then if we go further on and and then look look about that optimizing the balance sheet. So that is, of course, something that then we need to take a look later on once we are there because the combined company would have a large share of high margin and growing stable business. That, of course, gives us then also a good way to optimize the balance sheet and maybe also then look at debt levels of the company at that point of time. Okay. We have, one further question from the line of Tom Skookma. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Tom, if you have your line on mute, if you can unmute your phone. Yes. This is Tom Skomer from Carnegie. Can you hear me? Yes, we can. We can now, yes. Yes. So I just wonder about these technicalities. What type of or how high acceptance would a Neles AGM need to approve a merger with Valmet? How does it really work in the Finnish law? Over yeah. Okay. Karri will answer. So so our understanding is that that it would it would need to be two thirds of the EGM, and then the merger would go ahead. Of course, first Neles board would need to need to propose it, and and and then two thirds of the of the votes at at EGM. And the same goes with Valmet as well. We've had a few further questions come through. The next is from the line of Johan Eliason of Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Yes. Hi, Pasi, Karri and Pekka. It's Johan here. Just curious, you talked about the shareholders of Neles, but how about your own shareholders? Have you had discussions with the major shareholders of Valnend? And are they sort of in line with your ambitions? That's sort of my interest point here. Thank you. We have had some discussion, but now we continue to have discussions with our shareholders. And they are not worried about the share price tanking when you talk about further acquisitions on Nellis? Well, up to now, at least, there haven't been any. Okay. Thank you. It will be interesting to see. Okay. We've got a couple more questions. The next is for a follow-up from the line of Sandvio of UBS. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Yes. Thank you. One follow-up, Kari. I just wanted to be 100% clear of what you just said on the balance sheet optimization. So is it essentially that, you know, after obviously, after this deal, your balance sheet looks probably quite a bit overcapitalized regarding equity, and you could afford a higher gearing with a stable business you have as backing this. So is buying back shares an option, obviously, to decrease the dilution again that you now will have initially? Is that one of the options you're thinking of? Well, I would say that that could be one option. And and but, of course, when first people need to get there, but, of course, that could be one option then at that stage. Yes. Yes. Okay. Got it. Thanks, Kari. And the final question is a follow-up from. Please go ahead. Your line is open. Yes. Hi again. I did speak a lot about revenue to know that's related That's less than 30% of the total revenue. In fact, you will be increasing your share of revenues towards upstream oil and gas, petrochemicals, refining That raises a few questions from an ESG angle. Secondly, would you really be able to create so much synergies in in those segments, which are actually the bulk of the top line from Nelos? Jo, if I start from the revenue synergies. So of course, for Neles to grow, Neles has to grow both in no, I'm not saying pulp because I think they are strong, but they have to grow in paper and board. And then, of course, they need to grow in other segments as well. In oil and gas, what Neles is reporting, according to our understanding, big part of this oil and gas is actually gas and then also industrial gas. So industrial gas is making like things like oxygen and that kind of things, which are not which are needed in different kind of processes. So of course, we would continue to grow that part of the business. So then small part of the business is in refineries. And there, of course, from an ESG perspective, Neles' role there is to reduce the emissions, improve controls and reduce the energy consumption in refineries. So from that perspective, NLS is working hard in trying to make those industries more sustainable. So a little bit same that in automation that which we acquired in 2015 that, of course, the total business has to grow, not only the business which is closely linked to rest of the Valvoline. So all the businesses have to grow on their own merits, and we are sure that we can manage that in Neles as well. Thank you. Thank you. And as there are no further questions at this time, I'll hand back to our speakers for the closing comments. Okay. Thank you, Pasi and Karri, and thank you, everybody, for good discussions. And as a reminder, Valmet's Q3 interim report will be published on October 27, and then we will have an interesting Valmet Pulp and Energy Investor Day that we will organize virtually on November 19 this year. So I hope to see everybody online in these two events as well. But no, thank you, and have a nice rest of the day.