Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Valmet's third quarter 2023 result publication and webcast. My name is Pekka Rouhiainen, I'm the IR here at Valmet, and the presenters today are Pasi Laine, President and CEO, and then Katri Hokkanen, the CFO of Valmet. As usual, we will first go through the highlights of the quarter. Pasi will be presenting the highlights, and Katri, then the financial part, and, and we will then open the phone lines for Q&A after the presentations. But without further ado, Pasi, please.
Thank you, Pekka. Headline today is orders received amounting to EUR 980 million, and comparable EBITA increased to EUR 150 million in the third quarter. Like Pekka said, I'll go first through the quarter three in brief, then some words about segments and business lines, then some words about the climate program. Katri will continue with the highlights of financial development, and Katri has also highlights. Then I'll come back to talk about guidance and short-term market outlook. First, the quarter three. Orders received decreased to EUR 980 million, and I'll go through that in more detail with the business lines and segments as well.
Net sales was about EUR 1.3 billion, our backlog is still EUR 4.1 billion, and comparable EBITA increased to EUR 150 million, and margin was 11.6%. Gearing in the end of the period was 21%. So here, the, by chart, orders received, I have said net sales are a little bit below EUR 1.3 billion and comparable EBITA, EUR 150 million. And, and, comparable EBITA, 11.6%, and backlog of EUR 4.1 billion, little bit over that. And in the end of the period, we employed 18,000 people. Segment-wise, Process Technologies is now was contributing about 43% in net sales, Services 33%, and Automation 24%.
By geography, Europe 40%, North America 23%, Asia- Pacific 17%, so big revenue recognition there, and China and South America 9%-10%. So quite normal distribution here in the net sales as well. This is the long-term development of Valmet since beginning of 2013, and wanted to highlight the long-term development. So when we started, our EBITA was EUR 54 million, and now LTM is EUR 632 million. We have been continuously developing net sales, continuously developing EBITA margin and also EBITA euros. And the work continues, so we are of course targeting to reach 12%-14% EBITA as soon as possible.
Now, we are at 11.3%, so still 0.7% is missing from the low, low range of the target. But the work continues, and we still believe that just working with continuous improvement, continuous review, renewal, and acquisitions, and good integration of the acquisitions, we are going to reach the target sooner or later. Then, orders received graph, so it has been growing nicely. There have been bumps on the road early as well, like in COVID times and then also in 2014, 2014, 2015. So of course, one cannot think that the order intake graph continues to go up all the time.
This time, our order intake was EUR 980 million, and then if we look at the cumulative numbers geographically, Europe has been a little bit less than traditionally, so 35%. North America, on the other side, has been more, 27% from the total order intake. Asia- Pacific has been active, China has been active, and South America, a little bit less than in a normal, average year. But like we here see, 980 is of course a low number, but we have had that kind of quarters before as well. So we should not overdramatize the order intake of 980. One long-term graph we have been proudly presenting is the stable business.
So when we started, we have about 1 billion in services order intake, and now our LTM in stable business, including automation services segment, together is a little bit over EUR 3.1 billion. EUR 1.8 coming from services and a little bit more than EUR 1.3 coming from automation. And of course, the work continues to grow this business in absolute terms with organic growth and with acquisitions. Backlog, like I said, ended at EUR 4.1 billion. It's also going down. It's going down compared to the peak years, but I think it's normal and in a way, healthy as well. Like we were saying in 2021 and 2022, that the backlog was so high that our delivery times were getting too long.
So now, slowly we are getting back to more normal, normal, backlog levels, backlog level when it was three billion, EUR 3.3 billion, we were very happy. Of course, thereafter, we have merged with Neles, so it has an impact on that, but 4.1 is still a good level of the backlog. And then also, now we have included the number telling that about 30% of backlog is expected to be realized as net sales during 2023. Last year, the same percentage was 30%. So before this, we haven't actually announced during the Q3 public announcement the percentage, and now we are doing it to help you to make good analysis of our expected EBITA for this year and for coming year. Then some words about segments and business lines.
First, services. So, Katri will go through the quarterly numbers later, and I'll focus on the year-to-date numbers. So year to date, services is still in growth mode, 1%, little bit more than 1%. So cumulative order intake was EUR 1,356 million, so we are still on growth mode. LTM is now a little bit less than EUR 1.8 billion, so EUR 1,774 million. Net sales has been growing as well, nicely. So net sales ended up in EUR 1,275 million. And so we still are getting orders more than what we are recognizing in revenue. What we all are very happy with is that our profitability has improved a lot, almost 4%, almost 3% in one year.
So in the beginning of this year, compared to total last year. So last year, our EBITA margin was 14.8%, and now it's 17.7%. So, Aki, and who is heading the services and areas, together have been doing very good work, and our EBITA is now EUR 221 million in the first nine months. Good development here. To the outlook, I come later back in my last slide. Automation segment, so here, of course, we are not comparing apples to apples because in 2022, Flow Control joined us after the first quarter. But order intake has been a little bit over EUR 1 billion, LTM 1.3, a little bit more than EUR 1.3 billion.
Net sales, 953, and LTM, a little bit over EUR 1.3 billion. So quite steady situation now, both in order intake and net sales. We are, of course, very happy that that usually profitability has been improving in last quarter, and and now our our LTM, so LTM is quarter three, LTM is already about the last year's the whole year, so in 18.7%, so good development here as well. And LTM last nine months, EBITA has been improving nicely as well, so we have generated EUR 169 million EBITA from our automation segment. So we are happy with the automation segment performance in first nine months.
In Flow Controls, order intake for the first nine months has been growing from last year, so it's now at EUR 613 million, and LTM is now 882 million, so at good level compared to last year. Net sales has been increasing as well, so we have been getting more, more products and valves out from the factories, which is good. So now LTM is at EUR 773 million, and first nine months have been EUR 581 million. So good development in Flow Controls as well, and the integration into Valmet has been proceeding well, like we have been earlier saying as well. So we are happy with the Flow Controls development. Automation systems growth as well in the first nine months.
So order intake ended up at EUR 408 million, and LTM is now a little bit less than EUR 550 million, so good development in order intake. Net sales has been growing as well. LTM is at par with order intake, and the first three quarters have resulted in EUR 372 million net sales. So good and steady development for the first nine months as well in Automation Systems . And like I said, Katri will comment more about the quarterly numbers later on. In Process Technologies, it's then easier or more granular to explain by the business lines, but now our order intake is a little bit less than EUR 2 billion in LTM.
And we are now at the level where we were at 2018, 2019, and 2020, roughly. So the extremely good years, 2021 and 2022, are now behind us, and now the LTM is around EUR 2 billion. First nine months order intake has been EUR 1.4 billion, so about EUR 300 million less than a year ago. Net sales, the other way around, has continued to develop well. So of course, we are now recognizing the revenue from the peak order intake years 2021 and 2022. So net sales LTM is almost at EUR 2.5 billion, and net sales in first nine months has been about EUR 1.8 billion. Comparable EBITA is now 4.9%. So, like I said, we had very good year 2021, 8.1%.
Then we had challenges starting and, EBITA dropped to 6%, and now it's at 4.9%. And we have still the same reasons though, so we have some challenges in selected Pulp and Energy projects which are impacting our profitability. Pulp and energy business line order intake in first three quarters, EUR 626 million, down by EUR 170 million compared to last year. And now our LTM is at EUR 900 million level. So EUR 900 million level we have had earlier, like in 2020. 2017 was even below 700, and 2015 and 2016 were at the same, same pace. So we have been here as well, early as well.
We have to remember that we have been very, very, conscious on managing our cost level, we call it capacity cost, in Pulp and Energy, and we have been preparing ourselves for this kind of situation, that the order intake is going down so we can use less outsourcing capacity in manufacturing, in engineering, and then, of course, we have other flexibility methods to be used as well. Net sales is now about almost EUR 1.1 billion, like it has been last year as well, and, on LTM and the first three quarters, almost EUR 800 million. Then Paper Business Line, order intake has been almost EUR 800 million in first three quarters.
Last year it was EUR 120 million more, but we have to remember that when we looked at the chart, that the business line had volume about EUR 700 million in the order intake for three years, then it jumped to EUR 1 billion, and we were very happy with that EUR 1 billion euro level. Then it went up to EUR 1.6 billion, and then we continued to say that the market is good because we have only weak, satisfactory, and good as describing words. Then order intake dropped to EUR 1.3 billion, and it was at good level, and now LTM is at EUR 1.1 billion euro level.
So we have a little bit challenge in describing the market verbally in very good way, but this EUR 1 billion level in Paper Business Line is a good level. Net sales has been the same as in process technology and in Pulp and Energy as well, that now we are recognizing the revenue from the peak order intake years, and that's why the order intake is now at EUR 1.4 billion level in LTM. But I'm happy also with Paper Business Line order intake, so nothing dramatic here. Then some words about the climate program.
So we launched a climate program a couple years back, and we set ourselves target to reduce the emission in our supply chain by 20%, in our own operation by 80%, and use phase by 20%, and to provide customers with a 100% possibility for 100% carbon neutral production processes in pulp and paper industry. Now, we have been, of course, working with our suppliers. We have now 45 customers who are engaged in our program. In our own operation, we are more and more buying CO2-free electricity, and we are replacing fossil fuels in locations where it's possible, and so on. So we are working on that topic.
We, of course, continually, continuously work on the, on the CO2 emissions and energy consumption in our product offering, and that's well on its way. And the big thing is that this year we have launched that we can provide our customers with processes for pulp and paper industry, so pulp, paper, bioenergy tissue, so that they are say, CO2 neutral. Of course, it's depending on, on the electricity what they are buying, but we have now possibility to deliver out to our customers technologies which are CO2 neutral. That's, of course, very big achievement. So now on top of the order intake discussion, it's good to remind that something else needs to be done as well at the same time. Good. So now it's Katri's turn to go to highlights of financial development.
Thank you, Pasi, and good afternoon to everybody. Good to be here today, and I will walk through the financial highlights, as Pasi said, in the next slides. Order intake was EUR 980 million for the quarter. That was 17% lower than the comparison quarter. However, when we look at the full year numbers, order intake was EUR 3.8 billion, which is flat compared to last year. Order backlog was still on good level, EUR 4.1 billion, and the net sales were EUR 1.3 billion for the quarter, and that was 1% higher than last year. Year to date, net sales is slightly over EUR 4 billion and 14% ahead of last year.
Comparable EBITA was EUR 150 million for the quarter, or 11.6%, and actually this was our record Q3 so far, and we are very pleased with that. Year to date, comparable EBITA is EUR 437 million, or 10.8%. When we compare to last year, we are 1.3 percentage points ahead, so we can clearly see development here as well. Adjusted earnings per share was EUR 0.52 for the quarter. That was 3% higher, even if comparable EBITA increased 11%, and here the reason is coming from the increased financial expenses. I will come back to the balance sheet a little bit later in my presentation. A few words also about the segment numbers, starting from the order.
So as you can see from the chart, orders received decreased in all of the segments in Q3. Services was EUR 349 million. That was 18% lower, and if we take FX impact out, the change was -13%. Year to date, services is close to EUR 1.4 billion, and that is 1% ahead of last year. Automation order intake was EUR 289 million for the quarter, so that was 6% lower than last year. However, if we take the FX impact out, the change was -1%. And year to date, automation is slightly over EUR 1 billion in terms of orders. And good to remember that flow control was in our numbers since Q2 last year.
Process Technologies was EUR 343 million for the quarter, and year to date, Process Tech or was at the level of EUR 1.4 billion and 17% behind last year. Moving on to the net sales, so when you look at the quarterly numbers, so net sales increased in stable businesses, both in Services as well as in Automation, but it was 9% lower in Process Technologies. For the full year, Pasi already went through the numbers, but Services was close to EUR 1.3 billion, 16% ahead; Automation, EUR 953 million; and Process Technologies, EUR 1.8 billion and 3% ahead. Margin-wise, Q3 margins improved in the stable businesses, both in Services and Automation, and Services was 18.4%, and Automation was 18.7%, so very good development there.
Process Technologies was 4.5% for the quarter. And for the year-to-date numbers, Services was now at the level of 17.3%, and Automation was 17.7%, and both stable businesses have been supporting. The profitability has been supported by, of course, good development in the volume. And Process Technologies was 4.7%, and that was 1.4 percentage points lower than last year. And all in all, as said, good quarter, 11.6%, and year to date, we were at 10.8%, and our target is to be between 12%-14%. Comparable gross profit, that was 25.9% for the Q3, and stable business was 57% of the volume.
And when we look at the last 12 months numbers, gross profit was EUR 1.4 billion or 26%. Comparable SG&A was EUR 894 million, or 16%, so no big changes here. Cash flow was EUR 57 million for the quarter, and when we look at the last 12 months numbers, it was EUR 215 million. Net working capital was EUR 55 million for the quarter, and the net working capital has increased compared to last year. Increase has happened in Process Technologies as well as in the stable business. And good to remember here that our business mix nowadays contains much more stable business, which ties up net working capital. Net debt, no big changes here compared to the second quarter. Net debt was EUR 531 million, and gearing was 21%.
Net debt to EBITA ratio was 0.74, and the average interest rate of our total debt was 3.6% at the end of Q3, and that was on the same level than in the second quarter. And maybe good to mention also that the financial expenses were EUR 7 million for the quarter, and year to date, -EUR 19 million. Capital employed, EUR 3.5 billion for Q3, and comparable return on capital employed was 16%. And adjusted earnings per share increased to EUR 2.43. That was the financials, and I will give the floor back to Pasi. Thank you.
So now it's time for guidance and short-term market outlook. So first of all, first the guidance. So Valmet estimates that net sales in 2023 will increase in comparison with 2022, and Comparable EBITA in 2023 will increase in comparison with 2022, so no change in our guidance. Then, short-term market outlook, and like you remember, we try to assess here both our capacity utilization and customer activity, 50/50. And first, if we start from services, so here, like, like I said, we are still in growth mode after the third quarter in year-to-date numbers, and our which means, of course, that our capacity utilization is good.
Then last quarter order intake was what Katri said, and that has we saw that, and that's why we have been reducing already in after second quarter the market activity to satisfactory level. Now, like said earlier, there is, of course, customer activity, and we start to see signs of activity improvement in North America and China. And it's, of course, very important if North America, which is big, big market and big, big economy, when we start to see more activity there, and it's also promising that we start to see more activity in China as well, because that would, of course, generally mean that there's more activity in world economy. So there are some positive signs now in our customer activity.
In Flow Controls , market continues to be good, like you saw in order intake cumulatively. Automation systems, the same. LTM was between EUR 540 million and EUR 550 million. Third quarter was not strong. There is always quarterly variations, and automation system management continues to push a lot for order intake and continues to try to target the growth also in this year in order intake. In pulp, we have good reasons to keep the outlook as satisfactory. Like we have been saying earlier, we are not seeing that there would be mega mill decisions coming soon. We are talking with customers about mega mill projects in different parts of the world, and they will come, but not in near future. But we are, of course, in discussions about them.
Meanwhile, we are, of course, focusing on small to medium-sized projects, and we work all the time with c ustomers are having investments in more small to medium-sized projects, so we continue to be active there. In energy, the market outlook has been good and order intake has been good, so no reason to change that. Then board and paper is more challenging from communication perspective. So like you saw, our order intake is, for the whole Paper Business Line, EUR 800 million, and it's at a good level. But with this satisfactory, we wanted to signal to you that this EUR 1.6, 1.3 billion level is not continuing, but EUR 800 million in order intake for the whole business line in first three months is a good level.
And then in tissue, we continue to have the same outlook. So the market outlook has been satisfactory for a while, and it continues to be so. So the one way we have difficulties with communication is board and paper, because one could, of course, think that... Some have been thinking that with this satisfactory, we mean that order intake will drop at the EUR 700 million level. And like you have seen, our order intake in first nine months have been already EUR 800 million. So little bit longer explanation this time, but sometimes it's challenging to describe the market with three words only. So thank you, and now I assume that Pekka will let some of you make some questions.
Yes, thank you, Pasi. And, Katri, I also ask you to now join Pasi here to the front, and, we will then move on to the Q&A session. So operator, I hand over to you.
If you wish to ask a question, please dial star five on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial star five again on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Antti Kansanen from SEB. Please go ahead.
Hi, guys. It's Antti from SEB. A couple of questions from me, one by one, and I'll start with the services and the order growth or order decline of 13% on Q3. So could you provide a bit more color on how did you see activity developing for shutdown services, parts and consumables? And also you mentioned that North America and China, there are some positive signs. How about Europe? Is that still weakening or, let's say, stabilizing on a lower level? Thank you.
No, Katri can help me later on, but I start. So Europe year-to-date numbers is still on growth, and Europe is typical case that all beginning of the year was good. Second quarter was also good, and third quarter was weak. And now you all have seen the results of some of our big customers. So production rates in Europe haven't been that high, and that has been impacting our order intake in Europe. Business unit-wise, spare parts, performance parts has been at the last year's level. There has been growth in Pulp and Energy, Pulp and Energy solutions, and then, Katri, you have to help me what-
The rest of the businesses have decreased.
Have been decreased.
Yes, exactly.
Yes. Did I answer to your question?
Yeah, almost. Almost.
Almost.
I was just thinking that the kind of sequentially compared to Q2, I mean, Q2 was a bit down as well. This was more down, so, I don't know. Is there any positive signs on Europe if we go into Q4 that it's, it's not declining further, it's stabilizing? Anything you want to comment on that one?
I don't want to comment on that one. It's too early to say. Then I wanted to comment specifically that we have started to see some positive signs in China and North America, but the rest, I would not like to comment.
How do you feel about kind of offering of that, let's say, counter-cyclical things like shutdown services and things like that, that could hold up better or even improve when clients are taking downtime? Has it been weaker than expected? Is there any?
It was weaker than expected in the beginning of the year in paper and tissue, board and tissue side, and the Pulp and Energy was actually more active than normally. And now I think the situation has been balancing. So board and tissue solution business has been coming back, and then Pulp and Energy solution business hasn't been as active as it has been in the beginning of the year. And then our sales force has been quite successful with performance parts, so I'm happy that that has been holding reasonably well.
Okay. Then maybe on the process tech side and the profitability, and it's still kind of slightly trending downwards, but it has been around that 4%-5% level now for, I guess, 6 quarters. So how has the work with the legacy low-margin Pulp and Energy project progressed during, let's say, first 3 quarters, during Q3? Where are we now with those ones?
It has been progressing, progressing and, of course, the project which we took then before the COVID, they are getting now older and older, which means that there's less and less to be recognized. So it, it's proceeding according the time schedules of the projects. Do you want to, Katri, add something on that?
No, as I said, that of course, we try to improve the profitability as soon as possible. That's what we have also said in the past.
But I mean, I guess you have commented that usually projects have most kind of a revenue recognition in the middle, and now it seems that just based on what the margin was, that you are still kind of in the middle of those revenue recognitions, that the impact out of those is not going down if we look at the performance. So is that a fair contribution, that there's still quite a lot of work related to those ongoing?
I think it's probably just fair to say that, that the profitability in the process technology can also vary between the quarters, so it's always the mix, what is the revenue recognition. So I think in general, that's, that's it.
Yeah. And then the more detailed answer would go to the interesting discussion about POC revenue recognition and margin recognition.
Yeah, and I guess also, when do you expect those projects to be behind you? But I'm not expecting a firm answer on that one.
Your assumption was good.
Right. Oh, okay. My last one from me would be on cash flow and working capital. I understand kind of the business mix impact with more stable business now, but what has been kind of happening with working capital within stable business and within process tech? And when and if should we kind of expect improving cash conversion?
Okay. So, first of all, of course, the development has been in such a favor that Net Working Capital has increased, so it was now +55, and the change was -85 in Q3, and inventories have continued to increase. That's the reason. And we have a high focus on the topic, so we are working on it. Of course, it takes some time.
We have to go through everything that where we can reduce kind of the safety stock levels. But at the same time, the portion of stable business has increased. And as you know, the prepayments on the capital side, they can have a significant impact on the Net Working Capital. But I would say that at the moment, the focus is on the inventories. Receivable collection is on a good level as well as payable, so nothing special there.
And you have very much.
So.
And you have very much focus on this topic. So, like we were saying earlier, it was a little bit difficult to challenge the organization with the inventory levels when there was a lot of difficulties just to get the goods and products from sub-suppliers. And now, when the delivery times are getting more normal, then, of course, we have to work hard on getting to get back to the levels where we were earlier, and Katri is very actively working on that topic.
I guess also within PP, the impact is less advances and higher inventories. That are kind of the key issues that you are dealing with.
Actually, on the process technology side, the inventory, they are not increasing that much because the work in progress, we are doing the cost-to-cost revenue recognition. So I would say that the inventory is more on the stable side. But as you said, the advance payments, they make a difference there.
All right, I will get back to the queue. Thank you.
Thank you.
The next question comes from Sven Weier from UBS. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good afternoon, and thanks for taking my questions. Pasi, the first one I had was just, when you said there are signs of activity improvement in the U.S. and in, in China, was that just referring to services, or do you also see that, in parts of the, the capital equipment side?
That comment was in services and then generally the. For example, Chinese market has been quite good, so we just announced nice order even today for container port and some of the tissue machine lines. So actually, but the comment was for services. But China has been good also from capital perspective.
Okay. Fair. And what I was also wondering on, on the Q3 development, also when we look at it sequentially, I mean, it strikes me also with a few other companies that now after four years, we have seasonality coming back, and that Q3 was also maybe seasonally more impacted than in, in the last couple of years. Would you confirm that also from, from your side, that this might have not only been the weak market, but there's also a seasonality element this year?
I haven't had time to read what the other companies have been saying, but I think there has been some reaction from our customer side. If you remember what the customers were saying after first quarter, they were telling that challenge is the destocking that's happening, and then quarter three will be normal quarter again. And now when listening our customers' quarterly calls, then they are now saying that they start to see the market improve. And because there has been delay on that improvement, they have been a little bit tougher with their maintenance spending, and the machines have been not running at the speed what they were running earlier, and which has impacted our services.
I think you also mentioned that obviously, the decisions on the capital equipment side in pulp have been... You know, there are projects, but they are delayed. Do you think we're talking here about delays until further notice or really a bit further out, or how should we think about those, those push-outs?
In pulp, I think I haven't said that there have been delays in pulp side. I think I have been saying that the postponements have been more on board side and tissue side. In pulp, customers who have plans to invest in new mills, the discussions continue, and the customers who have the plans, they have actually also publicly said when they would go ahead. But our tradition is not to tell the amount, so you can check it from their IR pages. But the big pulp project development continues like planned currently. But there is no big decision-
Those you mentioned on the board and tissue side?
Sorry?
No. Sorry, sorry. But in those, those decisions on the, on the board and on the tissue side that are being postponed, are we- do we have to expect longer postponements, or how should we think about that?
No. Our order intake in the first three quarters has been EUR 800 million, roughly, so quite good market activity. We have a lot of discussions ongoing, but then when they will materialize as orders, there can be quarterly variation. But still, it's so that our customers believe in long run to the benefit of bio-based packaging and bio-based materials compared to plastic. So that hasn't gone anywhere. It hasn't gone anywhere that people are moving more and more to the cities, and they need more packaging materials. Standard of living globally is going up, so the mega trends are still favoring the investments of our customers to renewable packaging materials.
The final question I had was just on pricing. I mean, obviously, with the markets weak like that, do you see any more price aggression from your competitors, or is pricing still behaving out there?
Well, we have tough competition all the times also during the booming years, so, so that continues like normally, and we have to work hard on, on making sure that our, our cost base is competitive, both in process technology and services, Flow Controls , Automation Systems. So, so no, no big change in that normal competitive environment.
Thank you, Pasi.
Thank you, Sven.
The next question comes from Mikael Doepel from Nordea. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Thanks for taking the questions, and, and good afternoon, everybody. Just a couple of questions here. Firstly, in terms of the market outlook, just wondering how we should read that statement. If you take the, the service segment as an example, you had orders of around EUR 350, down by about 18% year-over-year, and the market is seen as good to satisfactory. So is this absolute level a good approximation going forward as well, or how should we read that?
It's our first of all, it's the combination of our workload and then market activity, and there we are saying good and slash satisfactory. So we have order intake year to date still at last year's level, so our people are very busy with the deliveries currently. Then, like I said, year to date order intake is still at 1% improvement, so from that perspective, we could keep good outlook. But we... Of course, the fact is that third quarter was not as good as last year, and there was a drop compared to last year, and that's why we have changed the outlook on market activity to satisfactory.
Okay. And just to continue on the service business, as you mentioned in your presentation, you had quite a good improvement in the margins for the service business. What would you say are the key building blocks to continue to improve from here?
The same as up to now. So of course, the improvement in one year is more than we have ever had. So then we have to go a little bit back to the history, and 1% improvement is good improvement. Then we were delayed with our price increases, so last year, profitability was dropping even if the market was good. So that was not good performance, and now we have been catching it up, and that's why the improvement is now bigger. So bigger than it should be in a year. So we should have had better profitability already a year ago, and now the profitability what we have.
So Valmet is targeting 12-14 in EBITA, and we, of course, to achieve that, we need to improve in all the businesses, and it includes services as well. So the normal thing, try to push the service prices up. Of course, customers are working to the other direction. Then we have to invent new products, which are more cost competitive and new services, which are more cost competitive. And then we have to be very careful with our costs, both in costs, which are included in the deliveries, and then which are in other indirect costs and SG&A. So our target is, of course, to continue to improve the services profitability even further.
Okay, and just a brief follow-up on that. If you look at the order intake for service and the year-over-year development in Q3, how much of that, what kind of a pricing impact did you have in that number? Is that something that you can quantify?
Last year we gave. And that's a very good question, so Katri has an answer.
Yeah, so when you look at last year, of course, the comparison year is the development was really good. So actually, our orders for the full last year increased 13%, and we have said that roughly half of that number was coming from the inflation and half from the increase. So when you are comparing against last year's quarters, and especially Q3, the price increases were already in the bookings.
Okay. So basically not, not much of a year-over-year impact there, I assume. Okay, good. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
The next question comes from Johan Eliason from Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead.
Hi, Pekka, Katri, and Pasi. It's Johan at Kepler Cheuvreux here. I was wondering a little bit about the comments you made on pulp that it seems like the pipeline is developing according to plan. I remember you sort of indicated in the Q2 call this summer that potentially there could be big pulp orders returning already in 2024. Is that sort of still, as you say, that this is still according to plan, what one could.
So, so.
Potentially expect?
So, now I have to, I'm, you might remember better what I said then, but customers are planning, especially in Latin America, some pulp projects, and you can check their time schedule from their web pages, and there haven't been any changes on those ones.
Okay.
But sorry.
And.
Sorry if I haven't been clear enough.
No, that's fine. And in terms of their planning and your participation, I mean, you have indicated that you have been losing a bit share in the pulp side over the past decade. Are you aiming at regaining some share here in any decisive way? Anything you could.
No.
Shed on how.
No.
How you think your market share.
No, we.
Going forward there?
Yes, and then we just started up one new pulp mill here in Finland one month ago together with Metsä Fibre. So from there, we have a very good reference, and then we have it will be the biggest softwood pulp mill in the world. So that, of course, tells that we are tough in the competition. Currently, we are making a very big rebuild of the pulp mill in South America for hardwood, and earlier that was our mill as well, and that continues to be our mill as well. So our reference base is in good shape, and our organization in South America is in good shape to deliver total pulp mill. So when the next competition comes, we are eager to participate.
Okay, good. Then I have a question a little bit on the process tech margin overall, sort of. We've seen this margin declining, and it's been explained by these mismatch between pricing and then the actual cost inflation you suddenly experienced in the orders you took in Pulp and Energy. Now, I assume that negative mix will go away as you deliver on these existing orders. But at the same time, obviously, as you pointed out, you know, your rolling order intake has dropped to around EUR 2 billion level from the peak of EUR 2.8 billion, whereas your sales have been growing now to EUR 2.5 billion. So that sort of points to that there will be a lower volume rollout going forward as well.
How should we think about these diverging forces? Can you still improve your margin when volumes are falling because of these bad projects falling away? Or should we at best assume that you can stay at this 5% level that you are right now? Or is the volume decline significantly more important for your margin than these bad projects that you will eventually get rid of, so to say?
So.
Any directional views here?
It's very difficult to answer precisely without giving direct guidance for profitability of a segment. In our capital markets presentations, we have described what's our capacity cost against the net sales and how it has been developing over the years. And roughly 20% of Pulp and Energy is... 20% of net sales of Pulp and Energy is our capital cost, which then means that, of course, that when the volume goes down, then we have to be very careful that we are not using external resources for anything for what we can use the internal resources, and that work is, of course, ongoing. And then we have to be very precise also with our SG&A costs in the same segment.
And with those actions, and then with the tradition that usually the small- to medium-sized projects are less risky and little bit more profitable than the big ones, then our target is, of course, to improve the profitability. And again, getting back to the same answer, that when Valmet wants to reach 12-14, it cannot reach it if not all the businesses are improving a little bit. But with lower volumes, of course, it's a challenge, but that's our goal that we have to work towards the 12-14 points, not depending on the cycle.
Okay, excellent. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Johan.
The next question comes from Tomi Railo from DNB. Please go ahead.
Hi, Pasi, Katri, and Pekka. It's Tomi from the DNB. A couple of questions. Just out of interest, if you could provide some sort of an early look into 2024. If you look at your main indicators going into next year, is the order backlog decline sequentially, sort of soft market conditions creating worries on the next year's performance? Are you preparing any adjustments on the cost side? What should we be thinking about going into next year?
Well, if I start from the flexibility, continue from what we discussed with Johan as well, that of course, we have flexibility items in our operational model, so we can use less subcontracting in manufacturing and engineering, in everything. So that gives, of course, flexibility. Then there are, of course, other ways to reduce the cost as well, and if needed, we are, of course, ready to do some other actions as well, if needed. But the... One has to be careful that it's a lot better to keep the organization in very good shape and continue to work on the resources and developing the business instead of reducing resources, so. But of course, that's one tool as well.
Then for next year, it's a little bit too early to give any guidance. We traditionally have been coming out with the guidance in January, and or in February for coming years, so it's a little bit too early to say. Of course, I'm sure that you have modeled in already the acquisitions, what we have been announcing. So the closing of Körber is planned to happen in November, and then closing of Siemens' gas chromatograph business is planned to happen in beginning of April. So that's of course something additional that that's taking place in Valmet in coming four, five months.
That was another question. Thanks for that comment on the M&A. Have you seen any delay or any faster developments of all those timelines impacts?
The integration planning goes well with both, so we haven't seen any delays or speed ups in either of them. So the cooperation with Körber goes very well in regards to the Körber Tissue, and I've been myself visiting Lucca many times and also some other location, them, and we are very eagerly waiting for the time when we can start to work together. We are getting very good colleagues from there and good operations. And then in Siemens, it's a complex carve-out first from Siemens and then integration back to us, and that's why it takes a little bit time. But the atmosphere, the teams is good as well, and we are eagerly waiting also to get more colleagues from Siemens to work as Valmetians.
All right. Thank you.
Thank you, Tomi.
The next question comes from Panu Laitinmäki from Danske Bank. Please go ahead.
Hi. I wanted to ask about the automation business. So basically, both the Automation Systems and flow control. In Automation Systems, the orders turned to a year-on-year decline and slowed somewhat in flow control, but the market outlook is unchanged at good. So could you talk about what are you seeing? What are your expectations for demand going forward if you think about your sales pipeline and your end markets in both of these businesses?
Quarter three was a little bit weaker in both of the businesses, but we have good capacity utilization, and we still have many projects and many services to be won, and we have confident business line heads on both of the businesses. So that's why we kept the outlook as good.
Can I continue on the Automation Systems? I mean, how much of that business goes to the larger pulp and paper projects, and how much is something that's kind of replacement or-
It has been varying. So at the lowest, it has been 10% of the order intake when even maybe now about 10% when we acquired systems business. And now it has been growing up, and if I remember correctly, it has been even up to EUR 80 million in last year, roughly. Don't take this as an exact number. And now, of course, when the capital business is not as active as it has been, then of course it reduces the package sales, and it means then that the Emilia, Emilia and Emilia's organization has to get more orders directly from end customers.
So more pressure on that side, and it's good. They have very good products and good sales network, so they are targeting to grow even if package sales would decline.
Okay. Thank you.
The next question comes from Johan Eliason from Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead.
Yeah, hi again. I thought it was interesting when you commented the acquisition here, and I especially think Körber is—Körber Tissue is interesting because it's sort of the next step after your tissue machines, et cetera. Are there significant more M&A to do, sort of further downstream from your core technologies, whether it's in board or tissue or fine paper?
No. No, in tissue, we have now after the acquisition is closed, we have full offering. So then it's difficult to see any big moves anymore in tissue. And of course, I'm very happy that in tissue, we are getting the market leader, and we are market leader, so we combine. As combined, we are of course good supplier to our customers, and we have good network together and a lot of connections to customer together to help them.
Then in packaging side, it's. We have analyzed, but up to now, we haven't ended up in any serious discussion, so we have to analyze it further. We have been focusing quite much on this Körber Tissue, and we finally got it. So, now, of course, next step is that we integrate it well, and it will take some time, and thereafter we start to think about next actions.
But, but there are more that you could add from a technology point of view on the packaging side. Is that basically what you're saying?
It's a little bit different story. So I wouldn't comment or wouldn't give any good comment on that yet. It was clear that this tissue business move made sense, and with the others, one has to analyze it more carefully.
Okay. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
As a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, please dial star five on your telephone keypad. There are no more questions at this time, so I hand the conference back to the speakers for any closing comments.
Thank you for the Q&A session then, and the financial statements review release will be the next result publication of Valmet, and that's gonna take place on February seventh next year. So thank you, Pasi and Katri, and thank you, everybody, for good questions, and goodbye for now.
Thank you, Pekka.
Thank you.