Good morning. Thank you for joining NetDragon Websoft Holdings Limited for our 2024 annual results presentation. 各位投资界的朋友,早上好。欢迎各位参加网龙网络有限公司2024年年度业绩发布会。The presentation will be broadcast on Virtual China, Futu, and Wind platforms. The results PPT is available for download on our company website at ir.netdragon.com under the Webcast News and Event tab. 业绩发布会将会透过路演中富途万德平台同步直播。业绩PPT也已经上载至网龙的投资者关系网站ir.netdragon.com,新闻及活动栏目内的网上录播一栏,请各位登录下载。 Before the start of our presentation, please allow me to introduce the management who are joining us today. 首先请让我为各位介绍今天出席的管理层。我们有Dr. Simon Leung, Group Vice Chairman and Executive Director. 梁彦坚博士,集团副董事长兼执行董事。
Hello.
Mr. Wood Lau, Group Interim CFO. 刘克建先生,集团代理首席财务官。
Hello, everyone.
Mr. Lin Chen, Group Senior Vice President。林村先生,集团高级副总裁。
大家好。
谢谢。Now, let's pass our time to Dr. Simon Leung to host our presentation today. 现在我们就把时间交给梁博士,有请。
Okay, thank you. It's that time of the year again. Thank you for joining our call wherever you are. Good morning, good evening, good afternoon, and all that. What we're going to do today is not only take you through what we have done in 2024, but also look forward to 2025. I think there are some exciting strategies that we have. You have read our press release, and throughout this call, you will hear a lot about how we're going to be embracing AI as our future, which is the right thing to do. I think all along we've been looking at AI more from a supportive perspective, helping us to maybe cut costs, managing our business a little bit better. But we have decided last year that we're going to be all in. We talk about how we can help manage our costs and at the same time create products around the world that can help us to grow in the future. This not only applies to our core businesses, gaming and education. We're going to make an announcement later on today on one of the very exciting ventures that we're going to have all around IP and all around AI with our own IP. With that, I'm going to go through the quick highlights of our two businesses. One is gaming, the other one is education. On gaming, I said it many times, we're going to be doing AI and gaming. If I can go over to education, we're going to do AI and education at the same time. Not only are we using it to reduce costs in the gaming side, in both development and also creating great graphics. What we're also going to do is focus on extending our light, which is our evergreen IP on Eudemons , which Lin Chen is going to take us through in more detail. On the education side, unfortunately, we're facing some headwinds both in the US and in Europe for many different reasons. By the way, those are our two strongest markets for education. The US is just a lot of things. Inflation that has been bothering us for the last two years, the uncertainty of the budget allocation because President Trump wants to expand the Department of Education. There's a lot of unknown. The good news is the money is still there. The question is how it's going to be passed on to the state and then subsequently to the district. Same thing applies to Europe with a war going on in Ukraine and Russia, a lot of elections going on, for example, like Germany. The good news is the former government and they're going to be they have a big budget for education. Germany is our number one market in Europe. That's light at the end of the tunnel. We do expect continued headwinds in 2025, but we do expect a recovery in 2026. Sorry to be a little bit more windy, a long-winded on those subjects, but I think it's key for you to understand. One very exciting aspect of our product is we launched Active Panel 10, which is what we call AP10, which is a modular architecture. We took the computing device out of the screen that allows us to be very flexible in terms of how we configure the product. We can go with Android, we can go with Chrome, Windows, and even Mac. It's depending on the customer's requirement. At the same time, we have a device that we can deploy a lot more services on, which is the thing we call CAS for the last few years, and we can continue to take advantage of that. Of course, AI and education, that's also the services that will go into that box. Very exciting stuff. At the same time, because of the headwind, we try to manage our P&L and also our balance sheet. We have done a bunch of work, and I mean, you read the detail. We're going to be very prudent in terms of how we manage our balance sheet. Okay, I'm going to talk a little bit more about 2025 later on. I'm going to stop right now and turn this over to Wood, our new interim CFO.
Thank you, Simon. Good morning. There's the financial path to NetDragon for you. Our gross margin is up 3.3% to 65.2%. Our dividend margin is going up 4.8% to 23.4%. Our profitability is up 90% to ¥759 million. This demonstrates that even though we had a drop in the revenue, our profitability is still there. Our net cash is increased 30% to ¥2.1 billion. Our operating cash flow, we want to highlight here, we have in six consecutive years over ¥1 billion operating cash flow, which demonstrates our business model is sustainable. Finally, the dividends, we have declared HK$2.5 for each share. We have a 7.6% dividend yield based on yesterday's share price. Here are some key financial highlights. The total revenue is dropped a bit to ¥6 billion, with the gaming and application services due to the proactive optimization efforts to respond to the market demand. Our gaming and application service dropped 6% to ¥3.9 billion. The revenue for MAI is still in the transition period. The revenue is dropped by 17% to ¥2.1 billion. But our gross margin is still improved from 3.3% to 65.2%. The OPEX remains stable with the OPEX around ¥3.3 billion, which is about the same as last year. We remember that we increased our AI initiatives to control the cost. That means we can pace the cost optimization in the last quarter of 2024, which means the cost savings will be expected to materialize this year. Our dividend margin profit before tax is still going up in 2024. One point we want to highlight here is the taxation. The taxation included one-time deferred tax provision expenses of ¥452 million, which may lead to the operating result of the MAI, which is not successful, not that loss-making in the previous years, which means the loss carry forward in the deferred taxes has been made the impairment provisions. Bear in mind, this is a provision. That means if the MAI performance is improved in the future year, this provision may be able to reverse back to our P&L. Cash flow, we have stable operating cash flow and increased the net cash basis. That's why we increased our dividend per share from HK$0.4 to HK$0.5 in this final dividend this year, which marked a 25% increase. Turning into segments, most will be highlighted before, one want to talk about is the gaming represents about 87% of our gaming and application services. As mentioned before, optimization can pace in the last quarter of 2024, which means we will be delivering a full year cost-saving impact in 2025. That means it will be a quite good position for us going forward financial performance. For MAI, although the revenue is down, our gross margin is improved by one percentage point due to the lower unit cost and the freight cost. Our segmental expenses, I want to highlight here, we disposed of our GHI Singapore last year, which means in these figures we include about US$10 million in last year in the MAI business. If you're taking out that, actually, the OPEX will be dropped about 3.4% compared year 2024 and 2023, which is good cost-saving taking place in the MAI segment as well. We want to highlight here that since IPO, we have been declaring dividends in the past, which has already surpassed HK$80 since our IPO. Our final dividend also increased 25% to HK$2.5 per share, which means we are wanting to share our return to our shareholders. In summary, 2024 was a year of mixed financial performance and strategic execution and enhanced shareholder returns. This will mark a good position for us going forward. Thank you for your attention. Now turn to Lin Chen for talking about the gaming business.
大家好,我是林晨。很高兴为大家介绍网龙游戏2024年的业绩。 网龙游戏从去年在AI加游戏方面获得了很好的进展。其实从前年开始就已经开始应用了AI。在去年,我们从两个角度取得比较大的好成绩。第一个就是我们的降本增效维度。从研发人员的角度,我们在2024年只减少了14%的研发人员。这个也是我们在降本增效实际对成本的改善。同时我们发现AI在各个职能,从不光是美术,从我们的策划、程序、客服各个环节上,我们的AI对我们的效率提升都是显著的,都能达到30%到60%的提升。同时AI在增强我们的游戏体验方面,其实也获得了比较好的成绩。无论从AI的防外挂,还是从我们的AI陪玩,作为一个游戏产品,AI也能够显著帮我们去增强我们玩家的游戏体验。同时在AI的应用方面,我们其实也发现了未来有很大的机会。从降本增效的角度,我们会围绕AI的能力去构建我们的组织,去建设我们的AI生产线。我们预计在今年2025年,我们在降本增效上会获得更大的突破跟成绩。同时在创新游戏体验上面,我们依旧会围绕我们的智能NPC去改善跟创新我们的全新的用户体验。尤其是在MMO这个赛道上,开放世界,如何去通过构建智能NPC去创造全新的游戏体验,包括AI生成内容跟游戏。这个也是让我们非常激动的一点。在这个AI的应用上,同时对我们的IP的高品质内容也是会有很大的帮助。 从这张图上大家会看到,从前年开始,我们是在单一的AI的大语言模型或者细分领域的AI上进行了使用。它能够在初步对我们的研发效率进行一定的提升。但从去年的年终开始,我们发现从AI智能体构建的整个游戏生产链路是将有机会颠覆整个游戏行业的制作与生产。所以说从去年开始,我们逐步构建了AI智能体为核心的我们的AI能力,包含了我们的知识库。它就从单一的步骤到完整的游戏事物的AI生成。在面向将来来讲,如果是围绕AI组织跟AI生产线,我们有机会去达成面向未来的AI驱动的智能生产。这对整个游戏的内容产出跟效率也会发生极大的提升。这个也是我们在这个AI的机会窗口上所需要能够把握的最大的机会。 AI,游戏是个体验型产品。AI不光在我们的降本增效上有很大的帮助。尤其是在我们的体验上,我们也会有一个非常大的提升。传统的游戏体验,它可能是线性的,是被快速消耗的。围绕着AI,我们有机会去创造更加真实、面向未来的涌现性的体验。这对我们对一个游戏公司是最重要的核心能力。 接下来为大家介绍我们的IP。在IP战略上,我们核心的目标是打造健康运营的长线的长期IP。首先是我们的魔域IP。魔域IP在去年下半年,我们主动做了一些从长线运营角度做了一些在生态跟付费策略上的调整,包括运营渠道。这些调整的话,主要是更好的去优化我们的核心用户的生态跟稳定性。从我们的数据上来看,虽然我们的收入受到了一些影响,但是我们作为MMO游戏的核心部分,我们的用户的活跃度是能够看到在显著的提升的。很多的工作是我们长期布局的工作也逐渐开始体现,比如说在端游部分的双端互通。我们的手机端的持续的更新跟推广显著带来我们在我们的用户活跃度上的提升。同时在手机端的直播跟获客部分也明显去提升了我们的用户活跃。这个的话就是我们的调整,在从数据上已经初步反映了我们的长线的健康的程度。在今年的上半年,我们相信通过我们这些措施的改善,能够今年上半年环比去年下半年能够做到收入的稳定。在下半年的话,这些调整的收益能够逐渐的体现出来,让我们重新恢复到健康运营的长线增长的趋势中去。 接下去的话,就是我们的高品质内容是不断保证我们整个游戏健康增长的基石。从去年上半年的龙年兽,我们取得了很好的成绩。从龙年兽到我们的精灵宠到我们的国庆宠,这些高品质的内容,通过这些高品质内容的输出,我们在我们的内容上消费的比例是持续提升的。这个部分也对我们的用户的品牌跟我们的口碑也是很好的维系。 在今年的话,会持续的去推出我们更多的高品质内容,从无人机工艺,从我们的文化跟我们的非遗角度,这些内容的推出的频度跟我们的品质,我们会不断的提升来促进我们用户的健康增长。 文化加游戏,这个对游戏一个内容行业如何抓住内容风口去推动我们的用户的活跃是很重要的一点。对于我们来说,游戏在内容上的是有很大的优势,它从视觉跟互动表达上都更好的去抓着我们在文化上的核心竞争力。同时可以更好的获得用户跟社会的认可,这个是我们未来持续去努力跟发力的重点领域。 从两个端游的游戏数据来体现上,从最重要的我们的核心的商业模式跟消费内容上看,我们的消费率从我们去年上半年的年兽,也就是我们的龙年兽,到我们下半年的国庆跟精灵宠,我们的用户的消费率是有个显著的提升。这个也是在去年随着经济的影响,整个用户的消费的观念跟对文化内容的消费观念的转变,我们主动对一些消费的策略,包括我们的定价,包括我们的用户门槛做了适当的降低。这个也会对我们的整个的消费率有明显的提升。对于一个MMO游戏来讲,如果说用户是持续活跃、持续付费的,它对一个良性的长性生态跟我们的留存也会有显著的变化跟帮助。我们相信在这些的努力底下,我们的整个魔域IP会维系长线的稳定的趋势。 这个从我们下一个IP为我们的英魂之刃的IP上,就会轮到显著的数据上的变化。我们的英魂之刃其实在之前有过一个。我们的英魂之刃。
喂,林晨,还好吗?
Sorry,sorry。我们的英魂之刃其实在前两年经历了一个下跌。那么在下跌过程中,其实我们抓住了我们的内容跟我们的长线运营两个重要的点。所以说通过我们的赛事跟内容的努力,我们在去年做到了一个恢复的一个连续稳定的收入增长。那也从英魂之刃IP上,我们在长线运营上获得了一个很大的信心。那无论从在我们的今年1月的周年庆的当天,我们所有的游戏数据都达到了一个三年的一个最高值,获得了一个明显的增长。那我们相信在我们的长期IP上,只要我们的内容策略,我们的运营策略是正确的,那它一定会带来我们在长期的收入跟用户上的持续增长。 下一页。 那么在海外的增幅上,那我们把一些国内被验证的成功的策略其实也带到了海外,比如说我们在PC跟手机端的双端互通,那它对我们的用户的新增数据跟长线留存都达到了一个非常好的效果。那同时的话,我们在海外为了适应更多的区域的多样性跟喜好性,我们完成了本地化的组件化部署。那这样子的话,在面向不同区域的时候,那我们会能够很快在今后领域加速我们在本地化拓展的一个进度。所以说如果说排除汇率的因素,我们的英魂IP在海外也是长期做到了一个稳定增长的一个趋势。 下一页。 那么在新产品线上,我们基于一个长线游戏的策略,我们优化了我们自己的产品线。那有一些的内容的研发内容跟研发资源,我们投入到了我们更加重点的一个长青游戏的研发团队中,那会保持更好的去改善我们现在的整个现有游戏的运营的效果。那在新产品线上,从模拟IP来讲,最重点的我们的模拟重制,也就是我们模拟载体项目,在今年也做了对外的用户流程测试。那它的数据是超过我们的期望的,那也证明说在今年我们是很有机会,我们是有机会在应该是相对比较确定的能够在今年把这款产品推上线,获得一个比较好的成绩。而我们下一代的我们的模拟PC新的产品数据在对外测试角度也是达到了我们的预期的。那同时随着市场的变化,其实小程序游戏是有一个明显的用户增量在去年。所以说我们及时也观察到这个用户现象,然后推出了模拟IP的模拟传说这款小程序游戏。那它在去年已经上线了,那它在整个产品线上是我们的获量成本最低,同时有一个很好的对IP用户维系的一个角色的一个赛道的一个布局。那我们在今年同时也会对它做比较好的推广。 那么在新游戏方面的话,无论是代号龙还是星海特攻,我们其实代号龙已经签了代理,然后我们的星海特攻也在不断打磨我们的核心体验,获得了一个比较好的用户反馈。那同时我们还有我们代号NW面向未来的开放世界MMO的布局。所以说从整个产品线角度,我们会及时去洞察根据市场的趋势跟变化,优化我们的产品线,通过相信我们对长青游戏的布局跟整个IP的维系,我们在未来会有一个很好的一个新游戏的一个增量。 那总结起来,在网文游戏的整个业务上,基于长青游戏的策略,AI的投入跟使用能够很大的程度上改善我们的成本跟效率,而对我们的高品质内容有一个很大的支撑。因为在新的趋势下,用户对体验跟对内容的追求永远是越来越高的。AI能够很好的帮助我们去持续的降本增效,去推给用户更加优质的内容。而同时在AI的帮助下,能够不断在我们的长青游戏的策略支持下,我们希望我们在今年的上半年能够环比去年下半年能够做到一个更加稳定的一个收入。同时在下半年,在我们的新游戏跟带动下,在AI的持续的推动下,我们取得一个更好的成绩。 以上,谢谢大家。
Okay, thank you, Lin Chen. Go get some water because we need you back in the Q&A. Just listen to Lin Chen's presentation. He has mentioned AI so many times. You will just hear it as a continual theme for us going forward. Okay, I'm going to take you through very quickly high level on Mynd.ai because it's actually a company listed on New York Stock Exchange. I don't think I can go into too many details, but I think it's good as a shareholder. I'll take you through what we've been doing. Next page. Revenue is down because of the headwind, but the good news is that you have done good cost management. Freight is down, materials down, operation is down, and we have also rationalized our employee car. That's why we can achieve higher gross margin and all that. Continue the theme of AI. This is our opportunity going forward with 1.5 million classrooms around the world. Our ability, which we will talk about on the next page with our new architecture, we can put AI services into the classroom, allow teachers and students to interact much more effectively. Next one. This is around our AP10. I talked quite a bit about it during the highlight. Just give you a visual of what we can do. We can configure it in many different ways, which is that can bring the entire classroom, allow teachers and students to interact. Next page. This is a continuation of why we are doing the AP10 because we can unbundle basically the brain from the panel that we can deploy more services. Actually, started doing it in 2024. That's why you can see we're building up our recurrent revenue stream. We will continue to do that in 2025 and onwards. AI, again, is a big element of that. Next page. We'll talk quite a bit about it. Just want to have your attention that we are doing a lot of, make a better term, clean up of our balance sheet and also get ourselves structured in a way that we can take advantage of the capital market in the US when we need to. With that, I'm going to go into the outlook for 2025. The first one I want to take you through, which is actually very exciting for us, is our partnership with a company called Wenge. It's actually we have signed a term sheet with them. They're going to be investing $75 million, not limited to, by the way. It's actually $75 million RMB of cash and AI asset. Cash is actually important, but the key on this one is actually the AI asset they're going to put into the company. I think this is actually a match made in heaven. Wenge is actually a spinoff from Zhong Keyuan. They have a lot of technology, which I will talk about a little bit later on. They're going to put the IP into this company. We're going to be working exclusively on market outside of mainland China, i.e., Hong Kong, Macau, and the rest of the world. It's actually AI is going to be a key on this one, which is the technology part. But Cherry Pick, we've been working with a lot of major customers in Hong Kong, government, Hong Kong airport, MTR, and also we're going to take everything out to the rest of the world. It's actually a match between IP and AI and the ability to execute and deliver not only in Hong Kong, but around the world. I forgot to talk about. We also work very closely with the Hong Kong government. Also one of the software that Cherry Pick has worked on is PayMe. I'm sure a lot of you, if you're living in Hong Kong, you built that product for Hong Kong Shanghai Bank. Let me talk a little bit about Yahyi. I mean, it's actually if you go to the chart on the right-hand side, it's actually something that we own in the company outside of China. It's actually, if you've been tracking the large language model of the AI agent tests, Yahyi has been moving up. If you look at the ranking, it's actually we only rank behind some of the very notable large language models, GPT-4.5, Gemini, DeepSeek, Kimmy, and then it's us. We are very excited about it. I think what we're going to do is we're going to leverage this IP and focus on certain verticals, i.e., industries, including education, by the way. I mean, actually that's going to be very exciting to see how this venture can help us in AI education going forward. Next one. I think the chart probably a little bit misleading, I apologize on that one. Let me give you the gist of all this. We are going to build our AI plus content creation strategy. This platform will support both gaming, which Lin Chen talked a lot about, and also AI educational gaming, which I talked about many times before. AI educational gaming is actually spanned across Mynd.ai plus what Cherry Pick is going to do and all that. I think that's going to be extremely exciting. Okay, with that, I'm going to end on the note of the outlook for this year. On the gaming, I kind of repeated what Lin Chen has been saying. Our strategy is AI plus gaming. We can help with our costs, not only just on graphics, but also on coding. We're going to make sure our evergreen IP, Eudemons , will continue to grow. Very important for us. For Mine, I think we'll continue to optimize our cost structure, and then we can set ourselves up for success when the market returns. I did say when. I didn't say if the market. Last but not least, I think we're going to be really focusing on shareholder return. Simply put, we're going to continue to look at our dividend strategy and also the possible buyback of our share in the market at the right time. With that, thank you for your attention. Thank you for bearing with us. We're going to open it up for Q&A. Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Now it's our Q&A section. You're welcome to raise questions in two ways. For questions through the teleconferencing system, you may press Star 1, Star 1 on your keypad, and our operator will break you through. Second, if you would like to raise questions via our webcast platform, please enter your question into the Q&A box on the right-hand side of your screen. 感谢两位的问答环节。现在我们即将进入问答环节。欢迎各位以以下两种方式进行提问。第一,如您希望透过电话系统提问,请按星一键,星一键。我们的操作员将为您接入。第二,如您希望透过网络平台发问,请在屏幕右方的提问栏中输入您的问题。主持人会读出您的问题。谢谢。首先我们先邀请来自电话会议系统的问题。Let's welcome our first question from the teleconferencing system. Thank you. 目前暂时还没有电话会议上面的问题。我们先接入第一道来自于路演中网上的问题。这条问题是关于我们跟创奇思和中科文哥的一个合作。目前的进展是如何呢?请可不可以介绍一下为什么我们会选择雅意?
That's a very good question. We like it because we know what they're focusing on. By the way, we've been working with them even before we're talking about getting together. We have experience with them. Obviously, if you look at the ranking of Yahyi in the market, it's actually moving up. We much rather work with somebody who's up and coming, which is actually a little bit smaller than we work together to really focus on certain industries rather than working with GPD 4.5, which they are trying to approach the wider market. Where we are right now is actually we have signed a term sheet. We're moving towards on the SPA, but that doesn't mean we are not working together. I can't go into detail, but I think there are a few exciting projects that we're working on. Hopefully, at the right time, we will be in front of you telling you the good news of those projects. Thank you.
谢谢。第二道来自路演中线上投资人的问题是关于我们的派息的。请问公司未来会否继续维持这个高的派息比率?然后分红和回购方面有没有什么计划?
Well, a very good question. If I may point you to what has done, it's actually the last page of his presentation that gives you a little bit of history on what we have done. I also point you to my closing comment when I was talking about the outlook. We're going to be looking at how we can return the value to the shareholders. So we will, I expect, continue to have dividend payback to our shareholders. At the right time, we will definitely look at buying back.
Thank you so much. Thank you so much. 各位投资人,我再把我们的问答方式再说一次。如果您希望透过我们的网络平台提问的话,可以在您屏幕的右方输入您的问题。谢谢。接下来这条问题是来自西南证券的分析师。请问一下我们现在新品计划和一些推进的节奏,包括新的产品,包括我们education跟游戏方面都有。
对,林陈你先说吧。
好的,那我先再介绍一下我们的新品的计划。其实大家从刚才的PPT上也看到,首先第一个很重要的赛道就是我们的魔域IP。我们的魔域IP,首先是我们的魔域传奇的这款产品,它今年是会上线公测的。这个是一个确定性比较强的一个项目。接下去的魔域PC新,它理论上它是下一代面向更多的用户的产品。它会根据我们的产品线的市场节奏,我们会把资源更好的聚焦于今年上线的产品,然后再持续推进我们的下一年度的一个新品。接下去,因为大家也会看到小程序游戏是有一个明显的增量的,所以我们在已经布局的魔域传说的小程序游戏上已经看到了比较好的机会点。我们可以在小游戏程序上未来如果我们的数据好,我们也可以快速通过AI能力快速上线更多的产品。接下去在其他IP的新品上,最重要的就是游戏品质。像代号龙,可能是面向海外已经签了代理的产品。我们的这个星海特工是一个基于虚幻引擎的高品质的Rogue Like的俯视角射击手游。它其实也有一个很大的一个独特性跟市场机会。面向未来的新品的话,最重要的就是下一代的MMO,也就是基于AI,基于智能技术的下一代产品也是在我们的布局中的。这个就是我们的新品的一个计划。
欢迎我继续到那个接那个林陈来说。其实AI就是我们那个theme,所以那个有AI游戏,我们其实也有AI加education,那个教育,其实教育里面也是一个游戏,我们可以在做一些互动。所以我刚才也讲了这个整个AI的生产线其实是覆盖我们游戏跟那个教育,所以那个效果会比较明显,我觉得在那方面。当然我们那些服务了,无论是游戏也好,或者是我们在Mine叫做CAS的也好,也可以都是摆在我们那个新的产品叫AP10里面来体现出来。但是也不限制在AP10,其实我们在手机、在PC端都可以把那些新的,无论是AI的游戏或者是那个AI的内容都可以把它体现出来。这个是我们总体的计划,不光是游戏,也不光是那个教育,其实总体。
谢谢三本。谢谢三本,谢谢林陈总。下一道问题是来自交银国际的孙梦琪。现在请问一下管理层如何展望魔域接下来的表现?
林陈。
好的,所以说我再深入介绍一下,魔域是一款MMO的游戏。那MMO游戏最重要的核心就是它的用户活跃、粘性跟生态。那这个对MMO来讲是最核心重要的。那收入因为是受一些策略跟商业化定价的一个策略,它会有短期的波动。从刚才的介绍中,我们整个的魔域IP的用户的稳定性跟年度是不断提升的。在我们的整个用户上,我们认为整个IP是有展望上来讲是一个好的基础,就更加良性跟更加良性的生态。那从收入维度的话,当然从今年一到三月目前的收入数据来看,我们其实也比较有信心,就同比去年的调整,它已经恢复到了一个正常的一个水平上。那至少说今年的上半年能够同比去年下半年我们是持平的一个趋势。那在去年的今年的下半年有机会在我们的整个生态改善,包括我们的一些运营回顾活动跟新产品的带动上,能够恢复到一个重新的健康的一个成长的一个趋势中。那这个也是过去我们十年一直在做到的事情。谢谢。
对,欢迎。我插一句,刚才我们讲那个叫evergreen IP,就是我们是fully spec那个魔域是我们其中一个evergreen IP,所以那个是it's going to be around for a long time。
谢谢两位。接下来是来自于路演中平台李先生投资人的问题。请问一下2024年下半年游戏业务下滑的主要原因是什么?然后第二个问题是您好,今天网龙的年报上有一个所得税是¥6.42亿元,其中递延税款计提了¥4.5亿元,这个是大概是什么样的背景?谢谢。
We're planning to do a question, and Lin Chen can talk about it. Yeah. Okay. English or Mandarin?
Three questions. Lin Chen, you can talk.
Lin Chen, you can talk.
好的。那在去年下滑的这个因素,在具体介绍一下,就是前面有讲到说因为随着这个市场的用户的一个变化,那我们其实主动做了一些调整。那它可能分成几个维度。第一个是在我们的商业化定价策略上,受到一些经济的影响,用户的付费习惯发生了一些改变。所以说我们主动对一些定价,包括说用户付费的门槛做了一些适当的降低。那这样子的话,它其实是能够让更多的用户参与到我们这个活动中。但是它在短期的收入可能会受到一些的影响。其次其实在整个的用户构成跟生态中,我们还是为了长线的生态的健康,我们去降低了一些传统的一些数值,像一些会加大更多的中大R之间、中小R之间的差距的一些数值上的消费的比例。这个短期是受一定影响的,但长线它会做得更好。而在有一些手游的运营渠道上,不同的运营渠道,我们会对它的一些回款,或者说对它的一些对用户的运营跟健康生态的运营做一些的考量。如果说一些我们认为不太合格的一个渠道,我们也会做一些不断的一些优化。这些短期都会带来一些我们收入的下滑的影响。但这个目前再来我们看是我们在可控的,而且也是为了整个魔域IP未来能够长线运营十年、二十年,它必须要做的事情。好,谢谢。
Okay。那我回答那个递延税的问题。就是说在路演提到的那个递延税里面,其中有些点的意思是递延税的一个one-off的一次性的非现金的会计的一个处理,它是什么样子?就是因为它Mine那边是那个都有亏损,所以我们跟会计师探讨的时候要把以前年度它那个tax loss是可以抵扣未来那个taxable income的所得的一个产生的一个递延的资产。所以要把它那个做一个impairment provision,就是做一个减值的一个准备。所以刚刚提到说这个是一次性的,不会在未来25年以后再重新会发生的。这是第一点。第二点就是说未来如果Mine的financial performance又要改善的话,那这样子的话就要这个之前的税我们做了一个impairment,估计说我不能用。其实说未来如果我们有taxable income的话,我还是能抵扣的。所以说这个只是会计上的处理,就未来如果是Mine的performance improve的话,我们可以把它转回来的。
我再插一句,因为那个tax law其实我们是以前反正我们做过一些东西是有亏损的,我们一直放在我们那个balance sheet。所以这次我感觉我也讲了,我们做一些叫做fiscal management,这是我们就做了一个research。就是最重要是大家就明白说这个是一次性,然后是non-cash,这是一个accounting的entry,这个是我觉得比较重要。
对,所以再补充一下,就是为什么我们看到我们net cash还是有增长,我们的operating cash flow还是连续六年保持在¥10亿以上。所以that's why就上面讲的,就是我们无论是派息,我们都会一直都往上走,就大概是这个是影响是没有,所以没有先进楼的影响。所以为什么我们就把它处理掉了。
对,对,对,very good point,就是我们net cash还是往上增长。
对。谢谢,谢谢三本,谢谢Wood。Our next question comes from Victor Koo from Lumiere Capital. Actually, this question we have answered already, but I will just repeat it. Why did GameCorp profit drop so significantly from $88 million in 1H to $237 million in 2H 2024? Can we expect a meaningful rebound in 1H 2025?
Yeah, just to be clear in shares, this is a proactive adjustment we're taking for evergreen IP so that the revenue is taking a strong breath in the 2024 second half. For this year, we expect the overall will be a little bit at least flat in the first half. The second half will, because of the new games coming in and the adjustment taking place in the second half in the last year, so that means second half will have the advance breath to our revenue or the core of our financial performance. Once again, the first half, because the adjustment came in the last year, second half, so that means first half we still a little bit dropped back in the first half. But the second half will be helpful again in the future.
Thank you. 谢谢Wood。接下来是来自国政国际分析师的问题,想请教一下Mine的业务。我们的Mine的业务2024年收入有所下降,那未来有哪些具体的措施可能会实现这个收入的回升?
对,第一,那个二次普通话。
普通话,对。
第一,就是其实那个下降就是有两个原因。第一个就是那个市场是那个,无论是我刚才也讲了,我们其实一直以来Mine我们最强的市场就是美国跟欧洲,两个都是有一些困扰的。这不同的,欧洲是因为那个乌克兰跟那个俄罗斯打仗的问题,然后美国国家它也有它的自己的问题,经济也是一个问题。另外就在美国,就是我们叫做uncertainty of the budget,然后有一个过去几年那个,因为有COVID的时候,他们就给了很多钱给学校,所以他们就做了很多upgrade,所以有一个就是一个有一个effect在里面。所以但是我们expect那个cycle,那个replacement cycle就是会回来的,所以这个一个是一个方面。所以后来我会怎么做,we expect 2026年的这个market就开始回来,所以今年还是会比较那个challenging一点。 第二个就是1月或1月,我们因为我们把其中我们的一个business就是新加坡那个幼儿园那个business把它卖掉,因为不是我们long core的,所以你要compare,要看,要把那个我们那个business拿走来才可以看得比较清楚一点,就是compare to apple and apple,所以那个是这样子。 第三个就是我们new services,因为我们要做那个觉得往那个recurring revenue一个方向去发展,会比较健康,因为我们有一个150万的教师在我们的user base。另外我们有很多services在我们譬如说active screen,explain everything,有很多都可以,我们是可以再做一次增值,然后你看这个AI也是另外一个方向。所以我们就做了一些调整,所以把一些product从那个一些过付款,我们把它就是变成一个recurring revenue,这个也是另外一个方向。所以我们去年就build up大概是$500万的那个SaaS revenue,所以我们今年也会继续的增长。好处是那个SaaS revenue就是慢慢就是build up,就是跟一次过在买卖是一个很不一样。所以我们不几条腿一起来跑了。 另外一个关键就是我们APTM,因为APTM我们把那个OPS把它拿到我们那个机器的外面,所以我们对deploy services那个方面会比较方便。所以这个也是我们以后一个growth的factor。
谢谢三本。接下来这条问题是来自中信证券的分析师,您刚刚其实也部分回答了他的问题。他也想再请问一下2025年我们在这个教育硬件跟SaaS上面有没有一个清楚一点的guidance,还有一些改造一下。
我们就是一向都在那个core的booklet guidance,很不好意思。
谢谢。那我在这边再一次提醒各位投资人,如您希望透过我们的网络平台发问的话,请您在您的屏幕右方的这个提问栏里面输入您的问题。然后如果您希望透过电话系统提问的话,请拨星一键,星一键,谢谢。 下一条问题有一条是关于我们在AI方面的一个问题。有一位乔先生他想要请教一下,就是我们教育AI现在其实是一个很大的在经济上面的进行一个推动。那接下来我知道我们就是有在我们整个跟教育方面也有一些想法,对教育AI可不可以再清楚的可能或者说详细解释一下一些方向性或者产品的推出。
可以分两方面来看,就是一个就是因为我们老板行老本行是那个游戏,所以那个我们是说AI游戏加那个AI教育的游戏,所以我们会在那方面会花很多那个energy在里面。其实我们也可以leverage我们在那个游戏里面的发展,做一些给学生有兴趣可以跟他互动,然后一起学习的那个游戏,这个是一方面。另外就我刚才讲的很多事情都是在我们教室里面的,所以我们可以放很多AI的那个服务在里面,譬如说可以帮助老师那个备课,或者是改作业,或者是他到处里面的内容都可以帮忙,也可以帮忙学生在教室里面怎么跟老师来互动,或者是那个,因为我们有AI的话,我们就可以对每个学生他们都可以有personalize的那个帮助。这个是我觉得是在教育来讲可能是一个革命,这个就是我们那个方向。好,谢谢。
谢谢三本。我们看到现在网络上面还有一些问题,就是那对,接下来有一条问题也是刚刚那位乔先生的补充,就是刚刚三本讲的我们AI加教育,然后他还想请问一下林村总,就是AI加游戏上面可能是不是可以再多说一些,就是除了我们传统在我们这些efficiency enhancement上面,比如说在产品推出上面我们有没有什么想法,谢谢。
对,林村。OK,那我觉得分成两个方面,就主要就是说AI如何去创新跟改善用户体验。那第一个我觉得说已有的产品线,已有的产品线上,那其实AI还是能够帮助我们很好的去增强这个运营效果跟游戏体验的。那在运营效果上来讲,其实AI在一些这个流失预警,在提供更好的用户服务,在创造更多动态的内容上,包括生产上,它其实已经很明显达到这个成效。那在未来的话,这个部分的话会逐渐增强。 那接下去就是一个新游戏的部分,那新游戏的部分的话,就是第一个是说我刚才讲到的智能NPC,因为我们最擅长的是MMO这个赛道,MMO赛道最重要的就是整个的代入感和这个用户的社交。那过去受限于我们整个的内容生产的模式,内容都是有限的,它其实更多是一个封闭式的一个系统。而在AI的赋能下,它对我们整个的世界构建的真实性也好,交互体验的一个内容量跟真实性做一个显著的提升。那这个AI游戏的这个方面,我们觉得一定在MMO赛道是一个非常大的机会。 其次,我刚才其实有提到,就是说过去的社交可能是跟人与人之间的社交,那这时候来讲可能就是原来如果是竞争性的,那有人赢就有人输,那其实对它很难去控制这个给用户所有的用户一个良好的体验。而在AI的帮助下,用户跟在智能NPC构建的一个社会生态里,它会个人会找到更加适合自己的一个定位。而这时候来讲,用户体验就有一个比较大的一个提升。所以说在MMO赛道里,我们觉得说AI能够创新全新给用户更好的用户体验,那这是一个很大的一个机会。 那同时在AI也会显著减少我们的试错成本,大家也看到我们的新品上任何公司都有一个项目成功率的一个压力。而AI基于AI的快速生产跟试错能够不断地帮我们去打磨更好的用户的体验,跟降低我们的试错成本,这就会让我们在这个新赛道跟新品类上有机会去更多做更多的尝试。那这些很多都是AI可以帮助我们做到的。谢谢。
或者我也补充一下在那个AI教育里面,刚才我在那个presentation里面也提过那个AI生产线,这个其实是一个我们的基础,所以我们可以就按照每一个学生或者是老师的要求,我们或者国家的要求可以生产那个不同的内容,帮助我们老师跟学生。而其实最后我们可以利用教育来实现一个我觉得以后在未来教育非常重要的就是那个个性化的学习,这个是我们那个最终的目标。
好,谢谢三本,谢谢林村总。接下来两条问题是关于我们的现金使用的一个想法,因为现在公司的现金净现金已经提升到¥21亿元了,那管理层在现金使用方面有没有什么想法呢?回购刚刚有提过,然后或者其他的一些想法。然后下一条他们也是追问就是我们现金这么多,会不会考虑优化一下我们的借款方面或者负债方面的一个情况。
我简单就讲一下吧,我们有那么多现金,我们应该好好地利用它,回报我们的投资人,这个是一定的,什么机会我们都会看。另外就是优化我们的贷款,我要来说一下,我觉得因为比较复杂一点。
因为可以想象是因为我们是那个国际性的公司,所以我们在内地跟海外都有业务,所以你可以看这样来讲,我们为什么现金那么多,我们还贷款。第一说从capital structure结构来讲,就没有存款其实不健康的,有一点存款还是好一点,这是第一个。第二个就是说我们是内地也有业务,海外也有业务,所以我们资金调配的话,一般我们有几个方式,第一个就是资金拆借,第二个就是内保外贷。所以我们过去20年是比较多做的是内保外贷,所以说是那个内保外贷的话,就是说我们内地把那个存款放给银行,我们海外做一个它的一些关联银行的借款,所以就把资金从国内去调配去海外这样做。所以几个方法我们一直都来做,每年的情况也不一样,就是看一些国内的经济环境,或者其他银行的提供的一些优惠政策,所以来去判断是怎么去操作的。所以我建议是投资界还是focus on我们的net cash。所以刚刚三本也提到我们几点就是说第一个net cash,无论是干了什么东西,请我们不是怎么讲,net cash还是上升的。第二点就是过去6年都是operating cash flow效果是一个正数,这是第一点。第二点就是说从IPO到现在,我们派的股息已经累计18块钱港币了。那这时候就我觉得投资界就不要太担心是说我们业绩怎么样了,反正说现在才我们上市大概就大概10块钱左右吧,我忘了这是IPO price,但我们现在派的股息已经累计当时的IPO的时候我们拿钱了。所以说老板一股都没卖,所以他是长期的投资者,他是希望透过股息享受公司的一些回报。所以为什么我们他们一直强调是说我们是一直回报股东的,我们是想透过这种方法去回报股东的,就是这个意思。真的最重要是在看net cash。
谢谢两位。接下来我们接入今天最后一道问题,这个是关于我们2025年的cost control这个降本增效的这个问题,想看一下2025年还有哪些降本增效的策略,然后有没有实际的一个目标这样。
第一其实那个成本降低了,我们这些其他项目,所以我们在去年已经有很多在做就是人员的那个数量,或者是怎么用AI来优化我们很多那个事情。因为举个例子,现在我们有可能很多的无论在游戏教育,只是用AI来帮我们写程序的已经是很普遍的一个事情,那个做美术也是。我觉得我们那个做成本优化,在一个全世界经济比较有挑战的情况下,我们一定会每天就看怎么可以省这个成本,这个我一定会做的。这个是无论是在游戏里面,或者是在教育里面,这个里面一定会有这个AI包含在里面的。因为这个我觉得我们看AI就是说你不拥抱它了,就是以后生活会比较困难一点。所以那个我们继续会做成本的一个调整。
好,谢谢三本。谢谢三本,谢谢Wood,谢谢林村总。今天我们的发布会已经圆满结束,感谢各位投资者今天的参加,希望大家继续关注公司。如果您希望与管理层进一步交流的话,请联系我们安排一对一的会议。感谢,祝各位有美好的一天,谢谢。
谢谢。
谢谢,谢谢。
谢谢。
谢谢。