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Earnings Call: H2 2023

Mar 28, 2024

Speaker 7

Friends of the investment sector, greetings. Welcome to IGG 2023 annual results announcement Investors Meeting. Today, our presentation and Q&A session will be conducted in Mandarin. Besides, our presentation PPT has been uploaded to igg.com investor relations section. Before we begin, let me introduce our management. Executive Director and COO, Mr. Xu Yuan. Investors, greetings. Executive Director and CFO, Ms. Shenjie Lei. Investors, greetings. Today's meeting consists of two parts. The management will first present our group's 2023 annual business and financial performance. After that, there will be a Q&A session. Let's invite Mr. Xu to present the group's 2023 annual results.

Xu Yuan
Executive Director and COO, IGG

Friends, greetings. First, thank you for joining our IGG 2023 results announcement. We are conducting this event both on-site and online together. Here, I would like to send you my greetings. Thank you.

In 2023, we turned loss into profit, thanks to our two new blockbuster games, "Doomsday: Last Survivors" and "Viking Rise," and our new APP business. Our revenue went up 15% year-on-year, reaching HKD 5.3 billion. Our company, once again, went back to a growth trend. For profitability, we successfully achieved a deep V rebound. In the first half, we lost quite a lot, $46 million odd. In the second half, we became profitable. Actually, I saw some investors expressing doubt, saying that in the first half we lost so much. In the second half, it's not possible to achieve a turnaround, unless if we relied on investment gain to achieve turnaround. Here, I can say to you that our results are actually very good. In November, we achieved whole year breakeven, and you can see that our whole year profit was HKD 73 million.

This is our profit in December in one single month only. In January, we were also profitable. Our profit exceeded $10 million. In February, there were only 29 days, we had net profit of $7 million odd, our profitability has been restored. You can see that our profitability has been restored, in December, we started to buy back our shares. As I said just now, in November, at the end of November, we already achieved breakeven. In December, we saw that our profitability has been restored. We started to be profitable. As in past years, we used 60% of our profit to buy back our company's shares to pay back to shareholders. That was in 2023, and we did that in December. You may be interested in our situation in 2024.

In our financial statements, we disclosed our Q1 gross billing estimate, HKD 1.4 billion gross billing, up 20% year-on-year. Just now, I briefly described in Q1, in January, our profit exceeded $10 million. In February, there were 29 days. We exceeded $7 million in profit. In the past one year, you can see that our way of operation is that we wanted to be sound. We did not blindly pursue unprofitable growth because we have seen that global economy was not very good. Russia-Ukraine War continued, and that was the start of the Israel-Palestine War. There was global inflation and high interest. That's why we wanted to be sound in our operation. We want to see growth in revenue. At the same time, more importantly, we want profit.

If we only blindly go for growth, our products are not profitable, the result will be a mirage. It will be short-lived. In terms of operation, we want to be sound in operation. We want you to be able to see growth. At the same time, we want you to see our profit. Back to our games performance. Our old game, Lords Mobile, is still very sound and stable. For the whole year, it contributed HKD 3.1 billion revenue. In December, our gross billing exceeded $30 million. In January, it exceeded $30 million. In February, there were 2 less days. For this game, Lords Mobile, it achieved $31.5 million gross billing. This shows that its vibrance is still very good.

In terms of new products, Doomsday, Viking Rise, and APP business, for these three business lines, last year, they contributed HKD 1.68 billion of revenue. In the second half, these three segments achieved fast growth. At the same time, they contributed HKD 160 million profit. You can see that on one hand, we started diversified growth. At the same time, we pursued growth with profit. Into 2024, for Doomsday, at the beginning of the year is HKD 80 million gross billing. In March, we expect it will exceed HKD 100 million. In Q1, we achieved growth and profitability together. For Viking Rise, monthly gross billing now is HKD 50 million, and there is quite a good margin, almost $1 million net profit.

After 1 year's polishing work, its monetization and retention have achieved big improvements. This year, in the second half, we may start even faster growth model. I can also see that some investors, friends, had asked for Viking Rise, for such a long period, is not being promoted intensively anymore. Is there a problem? I can tell you that it is doing very well. We hope that these 2 games will not be promoted at the same time with Doomsday. We want to avoid fighting for advertising within ourselves. For SLG game genre, it is a very strong social nature category. Rather than working on 2 small DAU games, it is better to focus on 1 big game, make it big, and then promote another one.

1 million DAU game, its vibrance and its profitability is much bigger than 2 games with small DAU at 500,000. Together, the sum in DAU is the same, the one with big DAU has much bigger vibrance than the small DAU games. Regarding our APP business, many investors are interested in it. Today, I would like to say a bit more. Last year, this business grew quite well. This year, we have to nurture it with more care. In November last year, regarding the APP business, our revenue was already very high. It exceeded $9 million. Some investors expressed doubt. For your APP business, some small apps, the barrier to entry is very low. Profit margin is also low, and there are also different policy risks, right? The ceiling is too low, not very meaningful. The prospect is not very bright.

First of all, I have to thank this investor for his comments. He loves us a lot, I'm sure. That's why the strong criticism. We really heard your views and comments, we have incorporated this investor's comment. Last year, in December, we took the initiative to take away those utility apps that are not profitable and have some operation risk. After these apps are taken away, there may be some short-term pain to revenue. In January, for APP business, gross billing came down quite significantly. It came down to $5 million. However, in March, we already resumed $8 million and above revenue level. What is more important is that we escaped from the reliance on utility app. We successfully transformed into a content-oriented APP service, for example, news.

On this point, if you are interested in our APP business, investors, well, today, I would like to bring you the most important message. Let me repeat. We have already escaped from the reliance on utility app, we have successfully transformed into content-oriented APP service, similar to news service for our revenue. After a short decline in January, in March, we already resumed the high points of $8 million, our growth will continue. Here, once again, I would like to thank that investor for his sound comment and the direction that he has given to us. Thank you. Let me move on to the PPT. Let's turn the slides. Let's turn to page seven. In 2024, in the new journey, regarding this new journey, it is about diversified growth.

Our revenue will be diversified, bringing to IGG a turning point in our results from loss to profits, from small profits to normalized profits. I would like you to see that in the past six months, IGG has undergone change. Well, our two new games, Doomsday in March, it is expected that it will exceed HKD 100 million. Viking Rise, after one year's upgrades and optimization, well, it is in good position. For APP business, last year, growth was quite good. This year, while there was high-speed growth, we optimized product mix and structure, we transformed into content-oriented APP service. IGG is a game company. We are a content provider. For content provision, besides, we are also globalized in our distribution. For our APP business, there will be more room for development and profit.

Point number four, this is also a very important point. AIGC application. For AIGC utilization and application, it will make our R&D more diversified. We can lower cost and improve efficiency to release profit. In the past, we may need 100 people to do R&D, R&D may take two years. With the use of AI, 10 or 20 people can complete the work. This year in the second half, for example, there is GPT-5, Sora, and some other AI tools emerging. Our R&D cycle is expected to be shortened even more to save cost. In terms of AI, these are some of our initiatives. When you hear us saying AI, please don't think that we are trying to create a hype. I want to say that IGG is very practical. Through AIGC and AI, we are lowering cost and improving efficiency. That's the concept.

Okay, next page. Gross billing performance. We are on page eight. Those of you who are online, we are on page eight. Gross billing performance, Lords Mobile. This is monthly average performance for the whole year. For the whole year, average month performance is HKD 270 million. Doomsday: Last Survivors, Viking Rise, and our APP business. We presented the monthly gross billing of the second half. In the first half, it's almost nothing. In the first half, we was in a growth stage from scratch, we present the data for the second half. In the second half, Doomsday: Last Survivors, monthly average gross billing, HKD 78 million. Viking Rise, HKD 52 million. APP business, HKD 65 million. Let's turn to the next page nine. Here you can see the operation data of our core games.

Let me focus on Lords Mobile. Lords Mobile, our MAU number. Here you can see Lords Mobile, MAU as of 31st December. At that time in December, MAU was 9 million, Doomsday: Last Survivors, MAU was 2.7 million. Here, it is very important that there is the need for comparison. Without comparison, there won't be harm. We are in March, what are these two numbers? For Doomsday: Last Survivors, in the past 30 days, active users reached 6.5 million. Comparing with the end of December, it is 2.4 times already. For Lords Mobile MAU, in the past it's 9 million, it rose to 12 million. You can say that our games are growing. Let's turn to page 10. Page 10 is our annual results analysis. First of all, let's take a look at our revenue. Revenue was HKD 5.266 billion.

Comparing with 2022, we are up 15%. For gross profit, HKD 3.919 billion. Comparing with the previous year, we are up 24% in 2023. Gross margin went up. It went up to 74%, up 5 percentage points. Because of our APP business, revenue accounted for a bigger share. Our APP business directly relies on advertising revenue, there is no profit sharing of 30%. This is the drive in our gross profit margin increase. For R&D expenses, R&D expenses was HKD 935 million. Comparing with 2022, there is a big decline of 28%. This is mainly because of our active use of AI and AIGC, we're able to lower cost and improve efficiency. For net profit, it is HKD 73 million net profit. Page 11. Page 11 shows our cash position. Our cash position is very sound.

At present, we have HKD 1.47 billion cash and cash equivalents. Let's turn to page 12. Page 12 is our total assets. At present, total asset is HKD 3.7 billion. Current assets, HKD 2.05 billion. Non-current asset, HKD 1.65 billion. It is very adequate. Let's move on to page 15. Page 15 is our future outlook. In 2023, it is the beginning year of AI. In 2024, when GPT-4 and also GPT-5 will be launched in second half of the year, these will facilitate big change in the whole world, in all industries. As a game company, we will make use of AI help to realize the refinement and diversification of our games. By means of deep use of the AI technology, we will greatly lower cost and improve efficiency.

In 2024, we hope that through AI, we can improve our R&D and also our competitiveness in the industry. That's our major direction. For our operations, we will make more use of AI to strengthen our globalized operation competitive advantage. With AIGC, we will achieve our refined management and localized promotion in an in-depth way, so as to cultivate more deeply into our segments and markets. A conclusion for Lords Mobile, it is still sound and stable. Doomsday: Last Survivors, high-speed growth, Viking Rise, it is in a good position to rise. For our app business, while we have successfully transformed to content-oriented app service, and we have opened up a brand-new development room. For our gross billing, it is rising. At the same time, we have restored our profitability. Thank you.

Speaker 7

Thank you, Mr. Xu. Next Q&A session. Those of you here on-site, please raise your hands if you have questions.

Speaker 4

Those investors on the phone, please press dial one if you have questions. Before you ask questions, please let us know your name and your organization. Thank you.

Speaker 7

Any questions from the floor, please?

Speaker 5

Right, management. I am Eric. My question is, in relation to Lords Mobile, what is its positioning now? I can see that actually revenue has come down 15%. In the future, are you going to continue to put resources in Doomsday: Last Survivors and Viking Rise? How are you going to renew your Lords Mobile game? What's the strategy? What is the development direction?

Xu Yuan
Executive Director and COO, IGG

Yes. For Lords Mobile future development, I think that we have seen a lot of hope as such as now. If you take a look at our promotion, it is still continuing. In December, MAU was 9 million, it's now 12 million. We are still promoting this game.

On R&D strategy, we'll continue to offer brand-new content. There will be some brand-new moves for new players. This year there will be very major change. We have not given it up. Doomsday: Last Survivors is rising fast, but then we will continue operation for Lords Mobile. Last year in January to January this year, you have seen a decline in revenue. However, from June last year till now, it is maintaining $30 million. It did not fall further. I also see a pleasing sign in February, even though there are only 29 days, two days less than January, revenue comparing with January is much higher. In January, $30 million. In February, $31.5 million. You can see that for Lords Mobile, we continue to promote it.

Our main goal is to maintain a stable operation, hoping that it can stay at the same level and continue to contribute to our net profit.

Speaker 7

Next one please.

Speaker 6

Yes. I have two questions. I am from Citi. My question is about this year, your game pipeline or reserve. Is there any salient point that you can share with us?

Xu Yuan
Executive Director and COO, IGG

For those that are in development, in the pipeline, there are many. You can see that in terms of our manpower, R&D people, number of R&D people has come down a lot, we make wide use of AI, we have improved our R&D efficiency. In the past, we needed 50, 60, 70 people to work on one project. Now 12 people only. There is a big decrease in the number of employees.

In our pipeline, there are 21 games that are in developing and research process. In the PPT, we have not highlighted them today. Today our focus is two games, Doomsday and Viking Rise, and our app business. They are already shiny enough, eye-catching enough. We don't need to talk about many other things since they are doing well. There are many new games really. So far, we have not got actual data yet for these games, so I don't want to present those data to mislead investors. Because some games may seem to be very nice, very perfect, and then investors may have a lot of hope on them. If the data are not good, then that is not meaningful.

I think, this year we will focus all our efforts on Doomsday, and then we will promote Viking Rise, and on the side, we will also promote our app business at the same time. Understood. My next question is about cost control and expenses control. In your promotion and marketing budget, what will be the arrangement in relation to the three games, and what about future expenses? This is a good question. As I said just now, this year we want to be sound and stable. That's why we want both profits and growth. I want to see growth, but also profit. Now we are promoting Doomsday, and our method is simple. My biggest tolerance is that I do not make profits in Doomsday, and I invest the profits into Doomsday to boost its growth.

For Viking Rise, it must be profitable, and I need Doomsday to make profit for me. For my app business, it must make profit for me, as simple as that. Perhaps some investors may be worried that this year, we may launch Doomsday and Viking Rise will push them up. As last year, will there be a big trap that is created, making a big loss first, and then towards the end of the year, we may or may not be able to turn around. This year, we will not act like last year, because we have seen the profitability of the games and they have more potential, so we want to be sound and stable.

For Doomsday, for money earned that month, it will all be reinvested so that it will grow, and towards the end of the year, we will achieve quite a good target. Thank you. Thank you for the answer. We'll now invite the next investor to ask question. Can I speak in Cantonese? Yes, I think so. Or can I speak in English? Oh, okay. Yes, there is interpretation. I am Albert. My question is I have a few questions. First, just now I have done some calculation for your MAUs and also your gross billing. On average, each user gives HKD 30. I want to know whether you will try to dig into each user's profit and gross billing.

Speaker 4

Just like, increase the revenue per user, per active monthly users, because I see it's just for the Doomsday or Viking Rise or the, I don't know, [audio distortion] , it's just $30 per monthly active user. I would like to ask if, do you have any measure to increase the revenue per users?

Oh.

Another question is that, how to project your marketing expense, to your revenue ratio in the 2024?

Because I saw it's around 50% last year.

Yeah

I would like to ask some question about that.

Xu Yuan
Executive Director and COO, IGG

Okay. Just now, the question is about Doomsday revenue per active user, right? Active user, well, that means ARPU, so to speak, right? Why is it that ARPU seems to be very low, right? The reason is simple: because now we are doing marketing, we have acquired a large volume of new users, so our MAU is actually very high. Given this situation, well, there is still not a big accumulation of users, and the user base is very big, if you divide the numbers, the ARPU will be like this. After some deep cultivation and accumulation, we have another internal calculation. Net ARPU per DAU. In other words, we exclude the number of users brought in by advertisements on that day. The remaining customers, ARPU per DAU. Actually it is quite good. That's your first question.

For your second question, it is about this year's advertising plan and how much will it be. For advertising budget for Lords Mobile, we hope that we will use up to around 30% of gross billing to maintain its stability. We hope to push it higher. For Doomsday, we will spend 60%-65%, because it will be able to make money, as I said just now, this year for our promotion strategy. Well, for a single game, I want to push it up. I want it to rise. I, at most, sacrifice its own profit. I will not use profit from Lords Mobile to promote Doomsday, because Doomsday has reached a self-subsistence age already, unlike last year. Last year, well, the base is zero, I gave it a $30 million startup fund.

This year, every month, it can make $12 million. I take out 60%-70%, there is enough marketing budget for the game. For Doomsday, this year, in the first half, it may not be profitable. However, we can see its growth. In the second half, based on its growth, we will also determine the budget. We will see whether it will make money in the second half, and we hope that there will be more profit. We can then determine the marketing expenses, and it may come down to 30%-40%, every month there will be an additional $1 million-$2 million of net profit as a result. Thank you, management, for the answer. Next investor, please. Greetings. Thank you for giving me the chance. I am Hu Xiaoyue from Haitong. Your 2023 results are very strong.

My question is about your app business. You said that GP margin improved because of app business. Can you elaborate? Right now, your app business is oriented around content, and what is its main monetization method? Is it true that its margin is higher than games business in 2024? Well, now when we work on app business, we are in a transformation. Basically, there are two purposes. One purpose is to raise our profit margin, and the second is to maintain stability and stable development of the business. At present, basically, these have been achieved. For our app business, if it maintains medium growth rate, then the margin will be at 20%. If it is at high growth rates, then more than 10%. We are positive about this business.

Speaker 4

Right. Thank you, management, for the answer.

Speaker 7

Next question, please. Okay. We will now take questions online.

Operator

We will pass the floor to the operator. Greetings. If you want to ask questions, please press star one on the keypad and wait. First, the star key and then number one key.

Speaker 7

Thank you. Now, let's invite Yuxin Yao from CICC to ask questions.

Yuxin Yao
Analyst, CICC

Thank you for giving me the chance. I am from CICC. Three questions from me. First, about "Doomsday" and "Viking Rise" games. Just now, in terms of timetable and staggered promotion period, what will be the actual arrangement in terms of launch and looking at the full year this year, how do you plan your marketing expenses? Externally, have you seen some change in the purchase price? That is my first question. Can I ask my questions one by one?

Xu Yuan
Executive Director and COO, IGG

Yes. Okay.

In terms of timetable, "Doomsday", we expect that it will take more than half of this year for promotion. User acquisition cost. For "Doomsday", its cost, relatively speaking, is relatively low. On average, it is $2 globally for "Viking Rise" because of its topic and content. It is more suitable for North America and European countries. When we acquire users, we focus on the American and European markets. For Southeast Asia, we have not done much. On average, for "Viking Rise", the user acquisition cost is around $10. That means, on this point, in terms of timetable, this year, for most of the time, we will leave the time for "Doomsday" to do promotion because of a lower user acquisition cost. As a result, with limited budget, I can achieve a large-scale user base faster.

This year, target DAU is 1 million. Rather than doing 1 million and also two small DAU, that is 500,000 plus 500,000 DAU, two together, it is better to work on one big DAU. With 1 million DAU, the vibrance and profitability will be stronger. That means this year our strategy is to focus on "Doomsday", when the time is ripe, we will start to promote "Viking Rise". During the intensive marketing period, "Doomsday" will not be profitable. If we Let's say, if we do not promote, if we maintain the status quo, for "Doomsday", we will take 30% of gross billing to maintain it, in order to make profit. When we start promotion, that means we have to use 60% of gross billing for promotion. For the whole year's bottom line, it is simple.

You can work out the impact. Let's say this year, $10 million per month, I will take an additional $3 million of gross billing to promote marketing and advertising of "Doomsday". For the monthly profit, right now, "Doomsday" contributes $1 million profit every month. I will not take this $1 million profit. I think for the whole year, there will be impact on our $10 million profit. That is the rhythm. The same goes with "Viking Rise". At present, gross billing is $5 million-$6 million, because of its strong profitability, it contributes $1 million of profit. If I start to promote in second half of 2024, I will sacrifice $1 million per month of net profit to promote growth of "Viking Rise".

In the second half of the year, if I do all promotion, I will have to sacrifice $6 million. For the whole year, for our group, overall speaking, we will be profitable. After that, we make investment, and our gross billing will grow. This is our promotion strategy for these two games. Okay. Understood. My second question is about R&D, because just now you mentioned AIGC-related efficiency improvement. This year, what is the outlook in terms of the scale of manpower and also the absolute change in your expenses for RMB? For R&D, it is at last year, we are streamlining manpower. Last year, staff cost decreased by around 20%. This year, our manpower base is smaller, because this is the beginning year. Last year, our staff cost will continue to decrease.

With use of AIGC, the total number of R&D employees will not be as high as before in terms of demand. There is further room for enhancement. Okay. My next question is about your APP business. Just now, you said that overall speaking, you are trending towards content direction. In the future, will you introduce something similar to short video APPs such as ReelShort? Far, we don't have that direction, but we will continue to pay attention to this possibility. What we want to do is that this year, we will be clear in our goals. We will first make the business big fast. When it comes to the news market, it is very big, especially global news. We have to use 20 different languages to dig deeper into this market. Potential of this market is very huge.

At present, for app business this year, first of all, we will be able to stand firmly first, and then we will make this business bigger and stronger first, and then we hope that it can contribute enough profit. That is our goal this year. For short video APPs, we are looking at the situation, perhaps, in terms of investment method, we will take part by way of investment. Towards the second half, when we are stronger in AI, then we will consider investing. Well, currently, short videos are filmed by humans. This is different from internet company. We are not a company making film production. In the second half, if AI can help me in the form of tools, AI tools like Sora, if they can make videos or swap faces.

If it can produce videos for me, if it can change face, for example, then there will be this kind of possibility. We can then move into this short video market with higher probability. I don't rule out this possibility. Thank you. Thank you. I don't have other questions. I will look forward to your subsequent performance. Thank you. Thank you, management, for the answers. Operator, please take the next question. Greetings. If you want to ask question, please press star one on the keypad. Star key first, followed by number one key. Thank you. Now, let's invite question from Thomas. Good morning. I am Thomas from Jefferies. Thank you, management, for giving me this chance. Just now, the management talked about this year's progress of each game.

I want to ask, from a more macro point of view, at present, how should we see this macro environment? For players, when they consume games, what do you think? How should we look at the future trend of hit or miss risks of games? Is it more and more difficult to develop a blockbuster game? The macro situation is not quite certain. People may not be willing to spend money. That's my first question. Second question is about your cash. Apart from share repurchase, dividend, apart from these moves, what do you think for your cash? Is it true that in the future, you will use most of your cash in investing into new games? Thank you. This is a macro issue. If you look at global gaming markets, people's spending propensity is coming down.

For Lords Mobile, for example, in the past, 3 years ago, our DAU was 2 million. Our revenue was $60 million. This year, our DAU is still 2 million, but our revenue is only $30 million. That is the gross billing. We can feel that global players' spending power is coming down. You can still see that when you have big enough user base or a group for your game, then the vibrance of the game is still there. It can still continue a rather good revenue level. Let me supplement. For Lords Mobile, in December, it reached a very good trend. In the past 8 years, it created $4 billion revenue, and it was successfully incorporated into the $4 billion club. In the world, there are 20 odd games in this club.

For example, COC from Supercell, Honor of Kings, and other. In the past, there were many friends saying that, "Oh, your marketing principles are not right. Your operation thoughts are not right." 8 years have passed. You can see that our achievements are quite good. In relation to the macro situation, our big DAU philosophy has achieved quite good success. Talking about your second question. Sorry, I can't hear you clearly. What's your second question? It is about cash flow. Apart from share buyback, what do you think about dividend? Understood. Thank you. In terms of dividend and share buyback, I believe that you can trust IGG, right? In the past many years, every year we take out 70%-80% of profit to pay dividend and to do share buyback. Even last year, we just achieved a turnaround.

We only made a profit of $10 million. We still used 60% of profit to pay back to shareholders and bought back our shares. This year, given the economic environment, we will still use more or less the same ratio of our profit to either do share buyback or to pay dividend, because we can see that the market may not be very good. During this period, the market may come down, and we will positively do some share buyback to protect our company's share price. I know that many people are not positive about the Hong Kong economy. They may be doing short selling of IGG. No problem. We have a lot of cash reserve. We are profitable. We will continue to do share buyback and pay dividend.

If our buyback is not of enough strength, then definitely our dividend payment will be stronger. If the market is really not good at all, then we will put in more funds, to do share buyback. Thank you. Thank you, management, for the answer. Operator, please take the next question. Next question, Guangfa Securities, Yang Linlin, please. Greetings. I have two questions. My first question is, last year in the second half, overall profit was HKD 430 million. This is very strong. This year, for your overall revenue and also gross billing, both will grow. For expenses, you will exercise control. This year, when it comes to overall profit, what will be your strategy? Will you continue to maintain a half-on-half growth in profit, or are you going to expand revenue scale first? My second question is about investment gain.

Last year, there was HKD 50 million investment gain. I have taken a look at it. There is a portfolio and there is some profit, but from which segment in particular? Some time ago, in terms of investment, you have also invested in some companies. In the future, what will be your strategy in investment portfolio? Will that be changed? Thank you. This year, we said already that this year, in terms of profit, I hope that profits will grow. At the same time, I have to see growth in our revenue and gross billing. With growth, then we will be a good company, right? I think that if risk of investing into IGG is big, then that is not necessary.

This year, for Lords Mobile, we will use 30% of gross billing to do advertising, and the remainder will be used to stabilize our profit. When we promote games, we will promote one by one. We will not promote two games at the same time, because in that way, our profit will be lowered, our profit will be digested. We won't do that. We will first promote Doomsday and then Viking Rise afterwards. For APP business promotion, its profitability is quite good, so we will promote together. This year, we hope to see growth in both gross billing and profit. For investment gain, last year, we invested in a number of companies. Last year is Pinduoduo. We received some dividend. Our investment had achieved some gain. Besides, in the U.S., we invested into Discord. That one was also very hot.

In terms of AI use, there are many. For example, Pika and so on. All the tests are using Discord, not on their own platforms. With this kind of platform, through AI growth, then there will be even bigger growth generated. Their own value has been enhanced significantly. Last year, actually, there is some investment gain for us. For this year, when we invest, we will continue to maintain sound and stability. We won't just invest hastily. We will only invest if we see good projects. Otherwise, this year, in terms of investment, we will be more conservative. Okay, thank you. Okay, thank you management for the answers. Is there any other question from the floor here? First question. My feeling is that there is some similarity regarding the two new games.

Doomsday and Viking Rise, comparing with the core gameplay of Lords Mobile, what are the differences? That's my first question. Let me answer your questions one by one. They are SLG games, in terms of battles and so on, their performance is the same as what you can see. The difference is, first of all, their topic, their subject. For Lords Mobile, it is about gods and legends and myths. For Doomsday, it is about the end of the world and zombie. For Viking Rise, it is about Norse, pirates, Vikings. The subjects, the topics are not the same, as in movies. Some movies may be about the same content or storyline, like romance, the content is different, the story background is not the same.

For our three games, they have different topics and backgrounds, in terms of gameplay, there are a lot of in-depth differences. For Doomsday, people can migrate freely, there is the battle royale gameplay also. There is upgrades of game mechanic, and these are not in Lords Mobile. In Lords Mobile, there is tower defense, but not in Doomsday. For Viking Rise, it is like a game that we played when we were small, and this is about the Age of Empires. RPG and also some internal maps are being combined, gamers can explore. This is not in Lords Mobile and Doomsday. For each game, we did some differentiation, and one important point is that for this differentiation, it is in three points.

For Lords Mobile, it is made by our Taiwan team; Doomsday, Fuzhou team; Viking Rise, Chengdu team. These teams are in three different regions. In the future, when we develop games, we will also make use of these three directions in our attempt. Our Taiwan team will make new games that are similar with Lords Mobile. For Fuzhou team, in terms of their gameplay, it will inherit from the gameplay of Doomsday. For our Chengdu team, the games that they create will inherit from the gameplay of Viking Rise. Thank you. Next question. While I played all three games, I was obsessed with Doomsday the most, and I have already reached level 15. There are about 400 regions opened in Doomsday. In the battles, there may be some duplication and repetition.

When it comes to the first 10 regions and the middle regions, like the region 300 to region 310, when it comes to the The region 10 in game. The middle, I would like to ask, among different zone region, is there a big difference in the number of gamers? Sometimes people will migrate. What would be the situation like? Will there be the possibility that the regions opened first are getting emptier and players migrate to the newer regions? Migration is two direction. Some strong players may move from region 1 to region 300. There are some little players can't survive in region 300 and hide in region 1. Sometimes the most dangerous place is the safest place. This is about the strategy of game, and this is the biggest fun.

Sometimes you have to hide around, you need to find the server most suitable for your development and continue to survive. It is like our society. For example, since I was small, I studied in the U.S., and later on, I started up my business in the U.S. It's the same thing. For listing, I came to Hong Kong. The idea is we are working hard to find a place more suitable for our growth. This morning, I saw very nice scenery outside. I took a picture, I shared in my WeChat. Well, I said Hong Kong is still beautiful. It's the same as Doomsday. Players can freely move around, and they will reach the place most suitable for their development.

Let's say, for MAU- Is there such case that MAU in the first 30 regions is much lower than the MAU in region 200 to 300? Well, they are everywhere because things are dynamic. Let's say you are in region 200, and there are many MAUs there. If the fight is very aggressive, people will escape. People will go back to the earlier zone. In each server, I think this is a random concept. It's more or less the same. Of course, in some very interesting servers, for example, for the server that I am in, I won't say which, it is full of fun. There are many people there. I won't rule out the possibility of some servers having many people. Some servers are more popular, and there are areas where you can- A peaceful server safe for resource gathering.

Because it is safe, people would like to stay there. Okay. Right now, when it comes to experience in 15G and so on, it seems that there are a lot of interaction between people and the machine. It may be profitable to build things. Is it true that there will be more interaction between human and machine or human to human? There is more human-to-human interaction. Now, I have been playing the game for two years in order to have more experience of the game. Human-human interaction is a lot, and in later stage, as I said just now, our game is an SLG game with a strong social element. Well, you may think that fighting the battle is fun, not really. There is a lot of man to man, human to human interaction. On the TV every day and night.

I chat with people till 2:00 A.M. and I handle different things. For example, there are fights among players and there may be romance among players. There is love and hatred, a lot of different emotions among players. When they fight the battle, the time is very short. This is actually social elements inside the game. Well, I try to control myself not to play the game, as I am in the game itself, and I also have my love and hatred emotions. I have very happy chats with my friends. In the past, I chat outside, but now I always stay in the game. I think this is a social game, really. Okay. Thank you. Right. Thank you management for the answer. Any other questions from the floor, please? Okay. Thank you so much. Now we will conclude the investors presentation here.

Once again, thank you for joining IGG's results announcement. We look forward to meeting with you next time. Thank you. Thank you for joining. Thank you very much.