Earnings Call: Q1 2009

Apr 21, 2009

Earnings release

Good morning, good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the Huaneng Power International conference call. Raymond, please begin your conference. Thank you. [Foreign language] Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, a warm welcome to Huaneng Power International telephone conference. At this conference, we will be discussing the company's results for the first quarter of 2009. My name is Raymond Hill and I will be your moderator for this conference. [Foreign language] I believe you have already reviewed the company's Q1 results posted on the web yesterday, and the company is very pleased to have the opportunity to discuss further with you here. Let me first introduce the senior management members who are with us today. 相信大家已经在网上看过公司昨天发布的一季度业绩，公司很高兴今天有机会透过这个电话会议跟大家再详细地讨论。那我先介绍一下出席今天电话会议的华能国际管理层。President Mr. Liu Guoyue，总经理刘国跃先生。刘总，你好。大家好。好。Vice President Mr. Gu Biquan，副总经理古碧泉先生，古总，你好。大家下午好。 Vice President Mr. Lin Weijie，副总经理林伟杰先生。林总，你好。好，大家好。 Vice President Mr. Ye Xiangdong，副总经理叶向东先生。叶总，你好。大家好。 We are also very pleased to have other management representatives from the company's marketing and sales department, field department, finance department, planning department and capital markets department. [Foreign language] We are very pleased to have the company's interpreter, Mr. Zhao Biao to do the interpretation for us. [Foreign language] 你好，大家好。 We will first have the company's President, Mr. Liu Guoyue, to give you a brief on the results. Then it will be the Q&A session for all of you to raise questions. [Foreign language] Now I would like to pass the phone to Mr. Liu. [Foreign language] 好，首先谢谢肖先生。女士们、先生们，大家下午好！欢迎大家参加华能国际电话会议。我简要地向各位介绍一下公司昨天公布的2009年一季度经营业绩以及资产收购情况。 Thanks very much. Ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon. Welcome to attend our conference call. First, I give a brief introduction to our first quarter results of 2009 and the profile of our assets acquisition. 按照中国会计准则计算，公司2009年第一季度实现合并营业收入为人民币161亿元，比上年同期增长19%。合并报表归属于本公司股东的净利润为人民币5.5亿元，比上年同期增长127%，主要是由于境内业务2008年下半年电价调整的跳跃影响。同时，公司通过加强内部管理，加强市场营销，确保燃料供应有效、稳定，最终实现了季度扭亏为盈的目标。 Under the GAAP accounting standards for the first quarter of 2009, the company realized consolidated operating revenues of CNY 16.1 billion, representing an increase of 19% over the same period of last year, and a consolidated net profit attributable to shareholders of company amounted to CNY 550 million, representing an increase of 127% over the same period of last year. This increase was mainly attributable to upward adjustments for the company's power plants in China in the second half of 2008. Also, the company had strengthened operation management and marketing efforts while ensuring stable and effective fuel supply, thus realizing the objectives of turnaround from loss to profit in this quarter. 展望全年煤炭市场方面，由于目前电煤重点合同尚未签订，全年的电煤供应和价格仍然存在着一定的不确定性。电力市场方面，受国际金融危机的影响，全球经济下滑，国内用电需求降低，致使公司发电量一季度同比下降9.28%。但随着国家一系列宏观经济政策的逐步实施到位，必将拉动经济和用电需求的增长。我们预计公司全年的发电量将比去年有所增加。公司有信心在生产经营等各方面完成全年的计划任务。 Looking forward to the whole year. As for the coal market, there is uncertainty for us on the supply and price of coal in 2009, because no contract has been signed yet. As for the power market affected by financial crisis, global economy downturn and domestic power demand decline. The power generation in the first quarter of 2009 declined by 9.8%. China's economy and power demand will increase upon the national economic stimulus package. We thus predict that our generation will increase this year compared to that of last year. The company is confident in realizing the whole year's operation objectives. 昨天公司还签署了有关转让协议，收购华能集团公司拥有的杨柳青热电厂55%的权益，和华能开发公司拥有的华能北京热电厂41%的权益，转让对价合计23.48亿人民币。该交易将提请独立股东大会批准。收购完成后，公司将进入北京市和天津市的电力市场，进一步巩固在经济发展迅速、电力需求较强的环渤海经济圈中的市场地位，增强公司的盈利能力。 Yesterday, we entered into a transfer agreement with the Huaneng Group and the HIPDC on acquiring 55% interest of Yangliuqing cogeneration plant and a 41% interest of Beijing cogeneration power plant by us respectively. The total consideration for the transaction is CNY 2.348 billion. The transactions will be proposed with approval by independent shareholders of the company. The finished acquisitions will lead the company entering to the power market of Beijing and Tianjin, and help strengthen the company's leading position in the economic region around the Bohai Sea, an area with rapid economic growth and a strong power demand, and thus enhance our profitability. 下面我和管理层愿意回答各位的问题，谢谢大家。 We will next welcome to the Q&A, and we are glad to answer your questions. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Liu. [Foreign language] Now it's time for questions. If you would like to raise a question, please push one on your telephone pad. If you need any operator assistance at any time, please push star and zero. One for questions. All right. [Foreign language] Mr. Lau, please go ahead. 银行的。我有三个问题，希望请教一些数字。首先第一季度呢，我想了解我们那个运营收入，收入里头有多少是属于我们新加坡电厂的？还有第二个问题是，我们第一季度，我们公司原煤的单价是怎么样？第三个问题是，我们第一季度合同跟现货煤价的标煤价格分别是怎么样？谢谢。 I have three questions. The first one is, what is the percentage of Tuas Power the revenue in the revenue of the company in the first quarter of 2009? The second question is, in the first quarter, what is the raw coal price? The third question is, what is the standard coal price for the contract during the first quarter? 这个第一个问题，请公司财务部的经理黄立新先生回答。公司境外新加坡的大士煤炭收入，一季度是20.73亿人民币。 For your first question, the revenue for the power for the first quarter of 2009 is CNY 2.073 billion. 第二和第三个问题，请公司的林伟杰副总给你回答。一季度的煤炭单价平均是503.45，其中合同煤按照估价473.62，市场煤是540。回答。 For the first quarter, our raw coal price is CNY 503.45. Among this, the contract price is CNY 473.62. It is an estimation figure, and the spot price is CNY 540. Yes, your third question. 第三个问题其实是我们第一季度合同，还有现货煤价的标煤价格是怎么样？不是原煤，是标煤。我们的热值是5064大卡，要除以4000大卡。好，谢谢。 This is for the coal price with the heating value of 5,064 kcal. You can calculate from the heating value. 好，谢谢。我没其他问题了。好，谢谢李先生。接下来的提问是摩根大通的Mr. Edmond Lee. Mr. Lee, please go ahead. 管理层你们好。我有主要是两个问题，第一个问题是关于第一季度的成本，从燃料成本、维修、折旧，还有就是人工，那其中可不可以也提供一下国外跟国内的那个数据？这个是第一个问题。第二问题也是关于新加坡的，新加坡的经营利润，第一季度的贡献是多少？最后是平均的燃料成本。你们第一季度的平均燃料成本是多少？ OK, I actually have three questions. First one is for the report of the first quarter, what is exactly about the fuel cost, maintenance, and depreciation and the labor of those figures for each figure for domestic and overseas. The second is about Singapore and what is the net profit attributable to the company for the first quarter of 2009. The third question is, what is the average fuel cost for the first quarter? 这三个问题还是请公司的财务部的经理黄立新先生来回答。公司一季度的营业成本，净额是120.2亿，其中燃料总成本是86.67亿，维修3.03亿，折旧19.31亿，职工福利5.37亿。 OK, for your question about the total cost for the first quarter, it is CNY 12.02 billion. The fuel cost is CNY 8.667 billion. The maintenance is about CNY 303 million. For the depreciation, it is CNY 1.931 billion and the labor is CNY 537 million. 境外项目的营业总成本是18.19亿，其中燃料10.71亿，维修0.11亿，折旧0.98亿，职工福利0.23亿。 OK, for the overseas, our total cost is CNY 1.819 billion. Among these, fuel cost is CNY 1.071 billion. Maintenance is CNY 11 million and for the depreciation, it is CNY 98 million and labor is CNY 23 million. 新加坡的一季度的净利润是亏损3,700万。 OK, for the first quarter, the overseas attributable loss is 37 million RMB. 单位燃料成本，公司的单位燃料成本是CNY 219.9元每千瓦时，净额的。 For the fuel cost for our freight rate, 200.9. 好，Edmund，最后的那个是200.9，对吧？200.9。 219。 219。219。 Yeah。其实还有一点更具体的是，第一季度华能国内的燃料成本，accounting跟cash cost的差距有多少？差距。没听清楚差距。 Edmund，你的意思是什么意思？That cost什么意思？其实主要是想了解一下先付的那部分，就是由于合同价格还没有谈好，那第一季度我们的了解应该是有一部分是先付的那些煤炭。先付，是先行付的意思是吗？对，先行付的那个先行的金额，跟会计的成本，这个有没有差距？ The question is about the first quarter's accounting price for the contract price. Edmund，你的意思是说，这个先行付相对于这个应该付，是不是这个概念？对。 OK。所以单单是用先行需要付的成本，第一季度。跟他说个量吧。这样子吧，我解释一下，就是说我们一季度的所有的市场采购的煤炭都是实时结算的，这个比例大概是44%。嗯。那我们的重点合同都是一个大家知道的原因，现在是采取了一个我们认为最有可能的估计，这部分比例是56%，总量是912万吨。嗯。不管是当时结算还是产出的，从现金上来说，都已经支付了。 OK，amen。回答得这么清楚。明白了，谢谢。 OK，好，谢谢你，尚毅。我们下一个提问是由中银国际的姚先生。The next question comes from BOCI, Mr. Peter Yao. Mr. Yao, please. 管理层你们好，我有两个问题。关于新加坡的发电量，我们知道第一季跌了15%，管理层是怎么看今年新加坡的发电量，就是Tuas Power的情况？第二个就是看到昨天公布的两个收购，北京的热电厂，我们看到它的作价要远比天津的要高很多。我算了一下，大概的原因是什么呢？请管理层解释一下。谢谢。 The first one is we notice that the generation for first power declined about 15%. What we expect the generation in 2009. The second question is about the acquisition. I noticed that the consideration for Huaneng Beijing Cogeneration Power Plant is larger than the consideration for Yangliuqing cogeneration plant. What is the reason? 这两个问题，第一个问题还是请财务部的黄立新主任再回答一下。第二个问题请谷立华副总经理回答。对于新加坡的电力市场，我们从供给的方面来看，是没有发生明显的变化。公司所属的大士能源，市场份额仍然是在26%左右。但是从需求这个角度来看，我们看到由于国际金融危机的影响，出现了明显的下滑。有一个数据，就是第一季度，需求同比下降了5.12%，环比下降了4.05%。The first question is, we can see that the power supply has no change at all. Still, Tuas Power has 26% market share in the support market. In the side of demand, this is affected by the global financial crisis. So the first quarter demand declined about 5.12% compared to the same period of last year, and 4.05% month to month. 大士电厂一季度同比下降了15.32%。我们认为最根本的原因还是因为总的社会需求的下降。另外还有两个原因，我们觉得一个就是作为公司来说，为了避免盲目的竞争导致电量下降，我们也主动地在控制和减少一些没有效益的发电。另外还有一个就是，在去年大士电厂有一台联合循环机组进行大修，同时我们启动了一个燃油机组来进行替代发电。今年同样也是由于刚才的原因，从经济角度来看，我们没有去启动燃油机组发电。OK，for Tuas Power, the generation declined about 15.32%. This is affected by the power demand decline. For us, we can see that there are several reasons. The first one is the Tuas Power company activated to avoid the blind competition to improve the generation level. So, we slowed the generation level in the first quarter. Secondly, there are CCGT units undertaking big maintenance. So we have one alternative unit that is still oil-fired generation unit, but it generates. But in the later, we do not have the plan to make the same action. 好，第二个问题，为了节约时间，给大家更多的人提问，我就给你简单的两个概念。北京和杨柳青之比，北京的资产净值高，然后这两个电厂相比，北京的盈利能力远比杨柳青要高很多。2008年北京是3亿多的盈利，杨柳青是1000多万的盈利。 OK, the second question, I first give you two facts. For the net asset, the Huaneng Beijing Cogeneration Power Plant has a lot of gains changing generation. For the profitability, it is greater for Huaneng Beijing Cogeneration Power Plant than that of Yangliuqing cogeneration plant. The profit for 2008 for Huaneng Beijing Cogeneration Power Plant is more than 300 million RMB. Yangliuqing cogeneration plant, it is only [Foreign language] Peter, do you have further questions? 顾总，我只是想简单地问一下，你将来收购类似的电厂，它的估值是按照是不是都是差不多这两个的估值方法呢？各个电厂不一样，肯定结果也是不一样的，但是用的方法应该是一样。就是按照市占率是吗？就按照它的净资产。不是。重置成本法，叫资产基础法。好的，谢谢。好，谢谢 Mr. Yao for your participation。大家如果要提问的话，请在电话机上按 1 就行了。如果你要到公司协助的话，按星号。按 1 是提问，按星号是要求协助。The next question, 下个提问是由中信证券的吴飞先生。The next question comes from 中信证券, this is Mr. Wu. 大家好，我有两个问题想请教一下，一个是关于我们煤炭的事情。我们刚才提到，我们现在目前的煤炭是按照最有可能的价格进行结算，那么可不可以给我们一种情景分析，就是说因为去年整个神华的合同煤是 460，如果我们按照比如说现在 500 块钱或者说 540 块钱，对应的我们目前的成本大概是多少？另外，可不可以给我们一个关于煤炭整个分几个大的采购方的比例，包括我们去年对于神华、中煤，包括 other、包括其他一些供应商的比例，和今年目前我们的供应比例情况。另外还有一个问题，刚才介绍到了新加坡大士能源是一季度亏损 3,700 万，那么能不能介绍一下中新电力的盈利情况？谢谢。 I have actually three questions. The first one is of course, right now the management has said that the first quarter the company takes a very possible settlement price for the contract coal. We have some scenario analysis that compared to the 460 CNY for Shenhua and what is the current cost for our company? The second one is what is the percentage for the different suppliers of our company? The third question is of the Tuas Power and what is the SinoSing Power's profit? 关于大士公司的情况和燃料价格的情况的进一步的解释，下面还请公司财务部的经理黄立新先生来做一下回答。关于煤炭采购的比例的情况，请公司的林伟杰副总给你回答。公司境外项目的感觉，大士能源自身的经营稳定，一季度盈利是 2 亿 3,500 万人民币，符合预期。那么合并中新电力以后出现了亏损 3,700 万。那么中新电力主要是我们公司在收购大士能源的时候的一些融资，一些债务都在中新电力里核算。那么主要正常的仅仅发生这些贷款的利息。那么由于大家知道的原因，就是说一季度美元兑人民币出现了比较大的波动，所以产生了比较大的汇率损失，一季度的汇率损失是 1,700。这一部分我们认为第一是一个不确定的，第二个我们也感觉这应该是一个暂时性的。所以具体如果不考虑这个 1 亿 7,000 的汇率损失的话，我们的这个就降下来了。那么另外还有一部。 As for the SinoSing Power. For the Tuas Power operation, it is stable and sustainable. For the good quarter, the profit for the Tuas Power is 235 million CNY and this is the expectations of management. For the loss of 37 million CNY for SinoSing Power, this is largely due to the foreign exchange loss introduced by the acquiring Tuas Power. This figure of loss is 177 million CNY and excluding this, the profit for SinoSing Power is 140 million CNY. 燃料成本的事，我只能这么解释了，就是说我们认为这是一个最有可能的结果，或者说是我们希望达到的一个结果。如果不是这样的话，我们也会对这个数据进行处理。至于合同煤最后的价格签订下来是一个什么情况，这个我们还在看，到时候再看。 Okay. Your second question is about the possible settlement price. This is what we want and also is the most possible result, or we will not make such an estimation. The final result we can say when it is signed. 关于煤炭供应商的情况和全年供应量的情况，我们预计今年总量在8000万吨，其中重点煤炭占60%左右。前面供应商的情况太多，我简单介绍一下比例上5%以上的这些供应商的情况。华能集团作为一个供应商，它的采购比例占我们公司重点合同来采购比例的7.2%；山西省煤运集团占7.1%，大概也就在629万吨左右；神华集团占5%，443万吨，大概是这个数量。这个在实际的进行的时候，煤炭的实际到货还跟这些数据有些许区别，我们将根据实际的情况再进行调整。 Okay. For suppliers, we have so many suppliers. I only gave you the major suppliers. First, I gave you the figures for the coal demand for 2009 for our company. It is estimated that the coal consumption will be 86 million tons. The contract coal percentage will be 60%. The biggest suppliers are as following: China Coal is 7.2% for the total contract coal; and for that of Shanxi Coal Transportation and Sales Group is 7.1%; and for China Coal is 6.5%. The actual figures will have a little difference. 吴先生，可以了吗？能不能还是简单介绍一下，如果后边，比如说神华真是按照540这个价格签的话，那我们所谓最有可能的这个价格会不会是上调还是下调？或是说怎么样一个方向的变动？能不能给我们一个方向性的判断呢？ Okay. We have realized that assumed the contract will be signed at the price level of 540 RMB. Compared to the current estimation price level, which is bigger. 目前我们跟煤炭供应商之间保持密切的沟通，我们将在双方达成一致的方向上快签。目前推测的最可能的价格是500还是540，我们认为都是存在的，都认为可能，太可能是这个价格。我们还是希望能够执行去年的设定价，维持在这种价格水平。 Okay. Currently, we are keeping touch with our suppliers. The contract will be done finally upon the consensus by both sides. You are talking about the 500 or 540 RMB. We believe that this is when the unrealized. We wish that the final contract price will be set in the earliest price level of 2008. 好，吴先生可以了吗？谢谢。好，谢谢你，吴先生。The next question comes from Yifang Management, Mr. Liu Kai. 下一个提问是易方达基金的刘先生。刘先生，有请。你好，管理层你们好。我有两个问题，第一个是我想问一下，我们的第一季度的投资收益主要是哪些企业贡献的？然后我看整体这个同比下降，我想问一下，就是这些具体的企业的话，它们分别的同比情况。第二个问题就是目前这个公司的财务费用率是今年最高的，我想问一下对今年全年水平的估计，以及什么时候可能会开始回落，谢谢。 Okay. I have two questions. The first is about the investment gain. We noticed that this figure for the first quarter has a great decline. I want to know what is the different companies contributed to our company. The second question is about the financial expenses. We noticed that this figure also increased a lot. What do you expect this level of the whole year, and when will this financial trend going down? 刘先生你好，关于刚才你提的两个问题，一个关于投资的收益，这个公司财务部的经理，还是？财务部经理。你好。我想投资收益这么看，虽然下降了32.4%，但是我们觉得投资收益总额本身并不大。08年全年也不过才1亿8500万，今年的一季度总额也才7500万，所以我认为总额并不大。那么下降32.4%的量是3600万，这是一个。第二个，觉得去年全年是1亿8500万，今年一季度已经达到了7500万，占到了41%。我觉得应该能看出来，今年有较大的改善，这是第二个。第三个，同比下降的原因主要是一些电力企业一季度的盈利水平确实是不及去年的一季度。那么主要原因应该是电力企业的电量在下降。那么由于涉及到我们的联营公司里头有一些是上市公司，所以我们不便在这说一些详细的数据。 Okay, for your first question, although our investment declined about 32.4% in the first quarter, but in total figure is not that big. For 2008, the whole year of the investment gain is 185 million RMB. Currently, the first quarter this figure is 75 million RMB. Although this is declined about 36 million RMB, but this is about 41% of that of whole year of 2008. We do believe that this will improve in the following quarters. The reason is that our associates are taking their generation decline paces, so that is the reason for the profit decline. Also, for the some of our associates are listed companies, so we are not in the convenient to disclose some figures. 财务费用我想在这也可以做一个分析。从报告来看，一季度同比财务费用增加了6亿5800万，增幅是111%。但是，如果剔除境外的增加的2亿2500万，只见我们境内的财务费用只增加了4亿3300万，增幅是73%。 Okay, for the financial expenses the first quarter, in total it increased about CNY 658 million, an increase of 111%. But if excluding the overseas financial expenses of CNY 225 million, the total financial expenses only increased about CNY 433 million, an increase of 73%. 那么在境内增加的这个4亿3300万当中，如果再刨去由于汇率变动使得汇兑收益减少的6100万的话，那么我们承接的利息增加的部分是3亿6900万，这个增幅同比是涨了53%。 Okay, among the 433 financial expenses, if excluding the forex loss of CNY 61 million, the interest expenses increases CNY 359 million, an increase of 53%. 这个主要原因，是由于平均的债务规模的增加。因为很准确的数字不一定能够统计得出来，但是我们粗略地看了看，平均债务规模应该是增加了有280个亿，涨了54%，这个是利息支出的最主要的原因。那我们的综合的资金成本实际上是下降的，去年同期是5.92%，今年的就降到了5.16%。但是我想这一部分利率下降对利润的贡献在以后的季度内会逐步地显现，但是我们仍然预计全年的财务费用应该会高于去年的水平。 Okay. The main reason is our debt scale is increased about CNY 28 billion, an increase of 54%. But although in this basis, our total interest cost is down from 5.92% to 5.16%. We believe this decline will make contributions in the following quarters in this year. Also the total financial expenses, we predict that it will be higher than last year. 好，刘先生。嗯。可以吗？嗯。有没有听清问题？我就想问一下，财务费用率的话，从去年三季度开始，是由大概4.5%提升到现在已经接近8%了。整个的趋势我知道公司现在是借了很多的债，就是说未来的两年的发展，这个财务费用率的顶估计会在什么地方？财务费用率这个是指什么？指明一下。财务费用除以营业收入。哦哦哦。 Okay, I wonder that the financial expense rate increased from 4.5% to 8%. Also, under the current case, there are lots of debts in your company. What will it be in the following quarters? 我们觉得平时的资金成本比应该更能够说明这个问题。那么刚才已经提到了，我们现在的资金成本比已经比同期已经降低了0.76个百分点。那么如果要看环比的话，那我们就降得更多了。去年的四季度的话，更高的。 Okay, right now, we have said that our interest cost can be explainable for your question. It declined about 0.76 percentage points. If we compare this quarter to quarter, it will be declined a lot. Ok，刘先生。好的，谢谢。好，谢谢刘昌宇。The next question comes from Yuanta Securities, Mr. Ding. 下个提问是元大证券的丁经纬先生。丁先生有请。你好，管理层好。我想问一下两个问题，一个是就是一季度电量下滑，华能是下降了9.28%，全国应该是4%。我想问一下为什么比全国平均水平高了5个点，因为华能的电厂大部分都沿江沿海，是不是有机组检修的原因？第二个问题就是之前提到的，就是合同价现在是按照473.62来结算，来做会计做账。那么这个燃料是多少大卡？是5500大卡吗？谢谢。 I have 2 questions. The first is, we noticed that the generation for the first quarter declined about 9.28%, but compared to the national level, it declined about 4%. What is the difference? Is that because of you have unit maintenance? The second one is, for your previous mention about the 473 contract price estimation. Is it the coal for 5,500 kcal? 好，您这有两个问题，下面请公司的林伟杰副总经理回答您。现在我先把全国的数在这里确认一下。根据全国供电比较权威的发布数，全国的一季度火电的负增长是6.1%，利用小时是1100小时，利用小时下降的是同比下降186小时。这样的放吗？那么根据我往下放。 Okay, I give you some relative new figures for the national generation figures according to CEC. The thermal power generation declined 6.1% for the first quarter, and the utilization hour is 1,100 hours, declined 186 hours compared to the same period of last year. 一季度，我们公司的电厂所在的省份的平均的电量的增长情况是负的7.23%。所以我们公司所在地区的电厂，加起来是9.28%，就是公司我们自身的电厂，跟所在地是相差了两个百分点。 Okay, for the provinces that we have power plants, the generation for these provinces averagely declined 7.23%, and this is 2% better than our own generation decline rate. 其中，我们公司在上海有一个燃气轮机电厂，在一季度它的发电量要少。所以这个有点下降。 Also we have a CCGT power plant in Shanghai, and its generation the first quarter is relatively low. This makes our total generation declined a lot compared to the same period of last year. 另外，江苏、浙江、福建、广东、江苏、辽宁、江西、湖南这些省份，由于它的外向型的状况比较大，再加上像江苏、江西这些高耗能产业的比重比较重，对地区的发电量的增长会有影响。 Specifically for some provinces such as Jiangsu, Zhejiang, Guangdong, Shandong and Hunan, because the economy is export-oriented, it is affected by the financial crisis. Also for Gansu and Shanxi provinces, they have lots of heavy industry, so these provinces' generation is affected a lot. So do for our own companies. 还有就是在甘肃省的平凉电厂，由于所在地区的水电发的比较多，所以我们在那里的电厂，水电就受到一定挤压。 Also for the Pingliang power plant in Gansu province, because of much more generation from the hydropower plant, our power generation is declining. 另外还有一个不可比的就是去年的金昌和岳阳这两个电厂所在的省份，在冰雪灾害的时候，我们发的比较多，对地方多贡献了，所以它基数大，今年达到在平均水平下，所以增长不会那么大。 Also another reason it cannot be compared, because in last years, for our Jinggangshan power plants and Yueyang power plants make much more generation growth under the snowstorm disaster. This is not advantage for us because the base figure is a little bit higher. 所以第一个问题就这样。第二个问题，关于煤的日存量达到，我们计算的是5064万吨。 Okay, the second question, for the heating value, right now, there is about 5,064 kilotons. 好，谢谢林总。丁先生，还有其他的吗？没有了，谢谢。好，谢谢你。谢谢林尚义。 The next question comes from Mr. Chiu of Xunyi International. [Foreign language] 你好，管理层你们好。我这里有三个问题想跟管理层请教一下。首先第一个还是接着上面一个问题，就是我们一季度的机组利用率的利用小时的情况怎么样？另外的话，管理层对于2009年公司整个的机组利用的情况是怎么样看的？第二个问题是关于公司2009年新建的一些项目，不知道整个新增机组的规模会在怎样的一个水平。另外对于这些项目的话，我们整个的资本性开支的规模，会在怎样的一个规模？第三个问题是关于目前媒体上报道比较多的电力体制改革的问题。不知道公司作为国内最大的独立电厂的话，对于整个的电力体制改革是怎么看的？另外，对于我们公司的运营情况会有怎么样的影响？还有就是可能在2009年最可能执行的大用户直购电的问题的话，不知道目前从公司的情况来看的话，进展情况怎么样，这个对公司会有什么样的影响？好，谢谢。 I have three questions. First, could you talk about the utilization hours for the first quarter and also for the expectation of 2009. The second is about the newly added projects. I want to know what is the capacity increase this year and also the expenditures this year. Third, recently the media reported that there will be some power system reform. What do you see this? What will be the impact on your company and also for the direct transformation of the power and what is the progress now and what will be the impact on the company? 关于这个电力系统改革和当前的大用户直供的问题，我先在这回答一下。因为目前我们对电力体制的改革，我们也没有得到什么新的进一步的方案。大用户直供这个问题，我们认为这个政策是一个正面的，是一个积极的，它是兼顾了各方面的利益。从我们了解到目前河南省、吉林省出台的一些方案看，各方面还是有积极性。关于公司一季度的利用小时这个情况，下面请李美杰副总经理回答。 Okay, first talk about the reform. Currently, we have no further details about the power reform. For the power direct supply, we believe that this will be positive and proactive, and this is satisfied with both benefits both parties. We have known that in Hunan province and Jilin province have taken some measures to enhance these policies and we believe this is positive. 关于一季度的利用小时，已经完成的是1,099小时。那么我们对全年的利用小时和发电量情况，是根据目前全国经济预测还是按照6%的增长的一个水平来考虑的话，经济增长6%考虑的话，有关部门的预测是利用小时是保持在4,000左右。那么我们公司年初的预测在4,500小时。目前我们还是维持这个预测水平。那么全年的发电量的数要根据利用小时来进行计算，根据下一步一些收购机组的变化，我们还是维持了利用小时的水平，可以推算出全年的电量。目前按照还没有收购的这个是算的大约在4,000亿左右。 The utilization hours for first quarter is 1,099 hours. The whole year we expect that it will be 4,900 hours based on the assumption of GDP growth rate of 60%, and the national utilization hours of 4,500 hours. Also according to the utilization hours, we believe that our generation for this year will be 190 billion kilowatt-hours. 关于09年新的一些项目投资费用的情况，下面请财务部的黄李金经理来回答一下。公司安排09年的新增的装机容量是3,712兆瓦，相对应的和火电项目有关的资本的计划安排是215.86亿。 Okay. For 2009, our capacity was increased about 3,712 megawatts. For the capital expenditures match with the thermal power plant investment, it will be CNY 21.586 billion. 好，朱总。请问一下你可以了吗？我这边再想补充问一下，我们的200多亿的资本金开支的话，我不知道这部分资金的来源情况是怎么样的。另外，有没有进一步的融资方案，以及如果是考虑债务融资的话，我们的资本负债率会不会再进一步的提高，以及我们能够容忍的上限是在什么样的水平？好，谢谢。 Further, I want to ask about the cash source for the capital expenditures, because as right now, the current debt ratio is relatively high. So what is your ceiling level for the debt ratio? 公司继续坚持以银行信贷融资为主，由于公司一直以来和银行具有很好的合作，在银行的信誉也很好，所以到目前为止，未使用的信用额度还有280多亿。 Okay, the company is continually going to borrow from the banks. Because of our good reputation and the good credit trust, we also have more than 280 billion credit facilities. 那么公司还积极参与像发行短期融资券、中期票据、企业债这些的直接融资。短融这部分我们会滚动发行。那么中票目前第一期的40亿左右也已经获得批准，实际上是随时可以发行。 Okay. We also will finance from the direct way, the short-term debentures, corporate bonds and the medium-term notes. For the short-term debentures, we will continue as the way we have issued before. For the medium-term notes, we already get approval about this loan of CNY 4 billion. 同时我们还积极拓宽融资渠道，主要是用来降低融资成本，比如寻找一些信托的或者保险的资金。 We will also explore some other financing channels to reduce our fund cost, such as into the trust and insurance. 公司目前的资产负债率是74.74%。随着这些融资的安排，我们相信负债率肯定还会有所上升。但是我们公司管理的内部要坚决把负债率在此阶段控制在80%以内。 Currently, our debt rate is 74.74%. We think it will increase and our ceiling level for the debt ratio is 80%. 好，薛先生。我没有，继续问一下。 [Foreign language] The next question comes from 陆峰鸣小姐 of 新华证券. Okay, I am sorry, 陆小姐, next one. Now it is Mr. Michael Tong of Deutsche Bank. Mr. Michael Tong. Hello, Michael. Michael, are you there? Operator, if Michael is not here, can you pass to 陆? 我在线上，你能听见吗？听得见，Michael是你吗？对，是我的。好，请你提问。我第一个问题是关于刚才财务费用的问题。刚才我提到收购第一季度国内的这一块财务费用增加了3.6个亿，但是我做了一个比较，就是跟去年的一季度，公司也增加了资本化的变成成本的，也就是日照电厂和上安电厂，这两个电厂也就是2000多兆瓦。那么我感觉这两个新电厂的投产，财务费用增加对每一季度来讲应该在1个多亿左右，为什么会增加了3.6个亿的财务费用、利息费用？第二个问题是能不能公司讲一下一季度公司两个比较大的，一个是玉环和德州电厂的盈利情况。第三个问题就是公司刚才提到这个融资计划，有没有会考虑在今年的适当时候进行定向增发？ Okay, I have three questions. First, also for the financial expenses. I noticed that in the first quarter, the domestic financial expenses increased about CNY 360 million. Compared to the first quarter of 2008, although we noticed that the power plants commissioning in 2008, I noticed that this only created financial expenses about more than CNY 100 million. How would you explain these financial expenses of CNY 360 million? The second one is, can you talk about the profits first quarter 2009? The third is, do you consider to make a plan of placement? 公司目前还没有定向增发的计划。关于财务费用和两个电厂的盈利问题，还是请公司财务部的经理黄立新先生来答复。 Currently, we have no plan to placement. 刚才提到境内的一定支出的增加，确确实实其中一个原因是新机的投产、终止资本化，这个是9500万，就是您提到的接近一个亿。但同时我刚才提到，我们财务利息增加的最主要原因是债务规模的增加，有近280亿。除此之外，我们由于收购大士能源，在境内有融资，折人民币大概有50多亿。我们去年新增了40亿的公司债，新增了50亿的短融，以及其他的一些银行贷款的借款。 Okay, first of all, first question. Surely the financial expenses for the newly generated units increased our financial expenses. This is because of the capitalization. This increased about CNY 95 million. Also, right now, I said that our debt scale is increased. So this total debt figure is about CNY 28 billion. Also, we have acquired the Tuas Power and this will increase about more than SGD 5 billion. Also, we have issued corporate bonds, certain debentures, and some borrowings. 玉环和德州的这两个项目，首先它是公司盈利贡献最大的两个电厂。但是目前我们考虑到由于这个供电合同的煤价确实还是具有一定的不确定性，那么我们可以个别再交流它的具体细节情况。 Okay. Surely the Yuhuan and Dezhou Power Plants make the greatest contribution to our profit. Currently there is uncertainty on the contract coal price. So we can talk about this individually. 我想再追问一个问题，大士这个是一个过桥融资，去年做的，那么现在这个过桥融资的再融资问题，现在进展到什么阶段了？现在正在处理。 They also have questions about the short power bridge loans. What is the progress right now? 我会在到期之前完成这个再融资的工作。 Okay, we will finish this arrangement by the end of the current phase. 好，谢谢。谢谢，welcome。下面请的是兴业证券的陆峰明女士。陆女士。是我吗？对。你好，管理层好。是这样，我想问两个问题，然后确认几个数据。两个问题的话，一个是关于我们收购的北京热电厂，那我看到08年它的一个盈利情况是14个点，然后我想问一下，它的这个净利润特别高的一个原因是什么？然后另外一个就是接着问刚才那个大士的问题，就是我们现在整个在大士上面境内外的借款规模，能不能麻烦您再给我们具体介绍一下，因为感觉说了几次，好像金额都会有一些出入。然后另外一个就是对一下前面两个数据，就是您刚才说我们在一季度的一个燃料成本，那个金额是90多少亿来的，这个我们没听清楚，因为电话的原因。然后另外一个就是，我们说这是我们重点煤的一个供应商，前三大一个神华，然后一个山西煤运，第三个我没听到，不好意思。谢谢，就这几个。 Okay. I have four questions. The first is about the acquisitions. I noticed that the Huaneng Beijing Cogeneration Power Plant has a very high margin rate for 2008 is at 14%. Please talk about more details. The second is about the first power. Please provide us the exact number for the loan. The third is about the fuel cost. What is the percentage for the fuel in the total cost? The last one is about the buyers. I want to know the third largest power buyer. 关于刚才这两个问题，一个是关于燃料成本的，在股份公司总的费用里边，燃料成本是CNY 80.67亿，这是一个情况。那我们的前三大供应商，第三个是中煤集团，就是中国煤炭进口集团，是一个上市公司。关于北京热电厂的一些财务情况和大士能源的境内外的融资情况，下面请公司的财务部的黄立鑫经理再回答一下。 Okay, I get the figures of the fuel cost. The first quarter, it is 8.067 billion RMB in the total cost. The third largest cost buyer is China Coal Group. 大士的融资的情况，应该在股东通函里头介绍得非常清楚的。那么我也可以说几个大数。一个就是说境内的股本，新的融资部分有USD 7.88亿。过桥的，就是境外的，新币的借款有SGD 24亿。另外还有境外有USD 4.9亿的我们内保外贷的借款。那么刚才提到的汇兑损失比较大的，也就是这个USD 4.9亿产生的。 USD 2亿。新币。 Okay, for the debt of acquiring Tuas Power, actually you can check with the circular we have issued. I give you the number for the total, it is about $787.8 billion. For the bridge loan, it is about SGD 2.4 billion. For other foreign currency loans, it's about $490 million. 北京热电厂盈利状况很好，主要还是一个因为它是在北京的市场，电力供应以及热力供应都很稳定。同时它的燃料供应也很稳定，相对来说它的价格和成本的水平控制得还是很好的。 Okay, for Huaneng Beijing Cogeneration Power Plant, surely the profitability is relatively good. This is because the Beijing power market is stable, and also the fuel supply is stable, and is good at control of the unit fuel cost. 好，谢谢。还有其他提问吗？不好意思，我想问一下，就是追问一下，就是您刚才说成本稳定，是说合同煤的煤价是不会变是吗？那09年呢？ What do you say about the stable of coal cost? Do you see that the fuel price is stable and has no change? What do you think that will be in 2009? 我们所讲的成本稳定，是2006年建厂，主要都是重点合同的煤炭。 What we are talking about is the coal contract price is stable. 可以了吗？所以09年的价格还取决于我们后面那个合同煤的谈判结果，是吧？是这个意思吗？对，09年的合同还没有签下来。不好意思，前面我们说的那个合同，现在是473块，那是含税价吗？对。含税的是吧？很好，谢谢。好，谢谢你，602。谢谢。下一个是瑞银投资银行的包先生。The next question comes from UBS Investment Bank, Mr. David Bao. 公司其实就打算计划09年新增3712个兆瓦的那些新增的装机容量，想请问一下，这个只是新建的，还是也包括了收购的？如果有收购的，请问比例大概在里面占多少？谢谢。 Also about the newly created capacity in 2009 of 3,000 megawatts. Will this all be the newly added capacity, or it includes some acquired assets? What will be the percentage of the acquired assets? 我们公司今年新投产的317万都是指的自己建设投产的机组，主要是火电，其中有5万的风电。所以比如说昨天说的两个收购的项目就没有包括在里面。不包括在这里面。好，谢谢。全部都是除了这两个收购以外另外的新建的机组。好的，行。This figure is only for the newly added capacity, and also it is mainly for the thermal power plant and also includes 15 megawatts wind power capacity, and this does not include the acquired assets. 好，那谢谢你，包先生。下一个是国泰君安的王威先生，王先生有请。对，想确认一下，刚才管理层说的两个煤炭价格，一个是473.6，一个503，是否就可以理解为是含税到厂价？第二个问题是，华能的运输成本在总燃料成本里面大概占的比例，从去年到今年一季度，这个趋势大概是什么样的？目前大概是什么水平？第三个问题是，华能国际在一季度它的机组检修的情况，大概有多少机组安排了检修？这个往常年份的比例大概是多少？ I have three questions. First one is, I want to confirm that the right way we mentioned about CNY 473.6 and the CNY 503, is this including the VAT and also it is the price at the power plant site? The second one is about the transportation fees. What is the percentage in the total cost? What is the plan for this year? The third one is about the maintenance. What is the progress for the first quarter of this year and the ratio of last year? 刚才我们说的价格都是含税到厂的燃煤价格。这是第一个问题。第二个问题关于公司的燃料成本占的比例，请公司的财务部经理黄利欣先生回答一下。第三个问题，关于公司的检修的安排情况，请公司的叶向东副总经理来回答。 The two figures we mentioned all including the VAT and also all these are the raw coal price. 运费占燃料成本的比例，08年，就是去年是10.3%，在此之前07年是11.5%。今年一季度我们没算这个数，因为燃料成本没有最终确定，所以我们没有去算这个。海运价格合同没有签。对，这个海运价格合同没有签。 For the transportation fees ratio in the total fuel cost, for 2007, it is 11.5%, and for 2008 it is 10.3%. This quarter, because we have not signed the contract, so there is no exact figure. 公司一季度检修预估安排了17台次，其中有11台次已经完成。好。 For your third question about the maintenance. For the first quarter, our units under maintenance is totally 17 units, and among these, 11 units have finished the maintenance. 好，王先生，可以了吗？你好，我再多问一句，我们往常年就是07年或者06年，大概检修的比例和今年是不是比较接近？或者说今年一季度有没有因为全国的电力需求不振，我们会多安排一些机组进行检修。 Okay. I want to further ask about the maintenance in 2006 and 2007. Will you make more maintenance because of the lower power demand in this quarter? 这个基本是跟历年是一样的，因为检修一个是它有它的周期性，另外我们也没有特殊的考虑。 Okay, this is the same way as last year because it is in its cycle, trend way, and we have no special considerations. 好，谢谢你，王先生。好的，非常感谢。谢谢。最后一个提问，因为时间的关系。最后一个提问是由平安证券的王女士。王女士请。喂，能听到吗？听到，请说。管理层好，我有两个问题。第一个问题还是关于合同煤的，就是我不知道刚才有没有提到，我们因为现在没有谈定价格，那是不是和煤炭企业还是有一个预结算价？那么这个预结算价格，我们刚才说的那个470多块钱，大概差距有多大？第二个问题就是我不知道我们一季度有没有使用进口的煤炭，如果有的话，这个进口煤炭和国内秦皇岛市场煤相比，到场的这种不含税煤价差距有多大？就这两个。 Okay, I have two questions. The first is about the contract coal price. Right now, you mentioned the price of 473 RMB. Is that the price that you settled with the suppliers? The second one is about the import coal. What is the difference between the import coal price and the domestic coal price, not excluding the VAT? 刚才给大家回答的这个问题的470块钱，就是在我们预结算的价格的基础上，结合出来的这个价格。另外，我们目前的进口煤炭的价格，如果折到秦皇岛的话，同类型的煤种，比目前国内的合同价大概便宜20到30块钱左右每吨。 Okay, your question is about the contract coal price and settlement price. The 473 RMB is calculated according to the settlement price with the suppliers. The second one is about the import coal price. For the same coal price, the coal price for the international coal price is about 20-30 RMB lower than domestic price. 好，谢谢刘总。王先生，对不起，王女士，你有其他问题吗？那是不是可以这样理解，我们的预结算价其实就是470多块钱，是吗？还有就是，如果折算到秦皇岛价格的话，便宜20到30块钱，但是我不知道是不是这个进口煤到场的话，它因为不扣1.17的增值税，那是不是按到场的话还是要贵一些？ Okay. Can I understand this way that the 473 RMB is exactly the same way that the settlement price with the suppliers? Also for the import coal price, does that mean that because the price is not excluding the 17% VAT, so the real price for the power plant price is expensive than the Qinhuangdao port price? 我再解释一下，这个470块钱不等同于下水秦皇岛价格的470块钱。这是公司所有的煤炭直达的下水的，南方的北方的都是加权下来的一个价格。嗯。第二个进口煤炭的价格是考虑刚才税收，考虑这些因素以后，比国内的同时期的同煤种的价格要便宜20到30块。好，谢谢。好，谢谢。 The first one is the 473 price is the weighted average price. The second is that the imported coal price, like I said right now, is 20-30 RMB lower than that of Qinhuangdao port price. OK，好了，今天的时间差不多。刘总，你有没有一些总结的话跟大家说。感谢大家对华能国际的关心，也要感谢Raymond。 Thanks to your attention to Huaneng Power International, and thanks, Raymond. Okay, thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's telephone conference. On behalf of Huaneng Power International, thank you once again for joining us today. [Foreign language]