Earnings Call: H1 2018

Aug 21, 2018

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to MMG Limited's interim results presentations. Hosting today's meeting is the company's Chief Executive Officer, Mr. Geoffrey Gao, and the Chief Financial Officer, Mr. Ross Carroll. Let me hand over to Jeffrey to give us an overview of the company's performance during the first half of the year. This will be followed by an in-depth analysis of the company's financial statistics by Ross. Thank you, Mr. Xiao, and good afternoon, and welcome to the 2018 interim results briefing. My name is Geoffrey Gao, and I'm the newly appointed CEO of MMG. This is just my third week. About our interim results, I trust many of you have read through our results announcements materials. Today I will discuss the 2018 first half highlights, our outlook, our strategy going forward, and Ross, our CFO, will also discuss the financial details. Before beginning, I'd like to give my thank to Mr. Jerry Jiao, who has just recently stepped down from CEO's role and returned to Senior Vice President at our parent company, China Minmetals Corporation. Over Jerry's time, he has overseen a very successful period at MMG, including the development of Dugald River, the simplification of our business and operating model, and $2.1 billion reduction in net debt. Jerry will remain involved with MMG journey as a non-executive director in the board and will continue to provide strong support for our growth strategy from his new role. We achieved a number of important milestones for MMG in the first half of 2018. Our safety performance has been continuously improved, and our TRIF level has been among the lowest level among the ICMM global peers. Tragically, we got a fatality at our Sepon mine in May, so that is a somber reminder that we still need to place safety at the forefront of everything we do. We deliver significant growth in profit to our shareholders from almost break-even level to $124 million for the first half, and we continue to reduce our net debt by a further $643 million. We achieved commercial production at Dugald River ahead of schedule and delivered overall production growth of 3% in the first half. That is the corporate equivalent production. The ramp-up in the Dugald River has been progressing extremely well. Even despite the short-term weakness in the commodity prices, we believe as a world top 10 big mine, Dugald River will deliver significant value for our shareholders over the next 25 years of mine life. Importantly, the strong performance has been recognized by the equity market, and MMG share price has overperformed our global base metal peers. About safety is our first value and it pins our culture. I strongly believe that achieving zero fatalities is possible for MMG, and we are committed to our efforts to ensure employees go home safely at end of each day. We will continue to work on improving our environment performance and our contribution to communities. We know this is key to maintain support for our future growth plans. As CEO, I will continue to drive strong performance in this area. Before handing over to Ross, I want to run through MMG strategy and objectives. As in 2009, our major shareholder, China Minmetals Corporation, has established the business and has identified copper and zinc as strategic commodities, and with the objective to build a world-class, world-leading base metals company. We have a very unique business model to combine the best international talent in the mining operation with the support from the largest resources company in China, that's China Minmetals. We have demonstrated a successful history, and the strategy has remained consistent. As the new CEO, the direction will not change. We still aim to be valued as one of the top mid-tier miners in the world by 2020, and in the long term, as one of the world's top miners. We will focus on four drivers. The first one is pursue value accretive growth. We have delivered Las Bambas and Dugald River, and these are the world-class assets that will create significant value for MMG shareholders. Beyond that, we will continue to look for next opportunities through M&A exploration, brownfields expansion projects. Be sure in this area, we will be disciplined, and we will not grow at expense of value. We have business improvement programs in places across all operations and group functions. Efforts in this area have been accelerated this year, and the recent commodity price volatility just remind us why business improvement is so important in our business. Our assets. Our great assets is our people. At MMG, we strive to provide a safe workplace that promotes collaboration, accountability, and respect. We will continue focusing in developing our people. Finally, we mine for progress. We are delivering development and growing community investment every day. We are proud to be miners and to be adding to the communities in which we work. I would like to hand over to Ross now to take us through the financial details in more detail. Right. Well, thanks, Jeffrey, and welcome everybody. Slide 9 highlights our financial performance and the fact that it's continued to improve. In addition to the significant growth in profit, you will see on this slide, our balance sheet continues to get stronger. I will focus on the profit first. Underlying EBITDA is up by 24%, and profit after tax attributable to our shareholders has risen from a near breakeven position to a strong $124 million for the half. The higher profit has been driven by higher copper and zinc prices, which have offset lower production at Las Bambas. A strong profit contribution from our other assets, in particular Rosebery. Two months' contribution from the newly commissioned Dugald River project, and reduced overhead costs, which have been a major focus for the group. Slide 10 looks at the EBITDA bridge between the first half of 2017 and of 2018. Starting from the left, we have the impact of the gain on the sale of Golden Grove and Century that was generated in 2017. We then have the impact of increased prices, which added $251 million to the results for the half. Both copper and zinc prices were about 20% higher than the corresponding period in 2017. Moving to the right, we have the last of the uncontrollable items, which is royalty, selling costs, and FX, with the main impact here being the non-recurrence of around $45 million in FX losses that occurred in 2017, as well as lower treatment and refining charges. Now to the controllable items on the right. Dugald River's two-month contribution result of the commencement of commercial production was $28.8 million. As we disclosed at our recent quarterly production report, we had lower volumes at Las Bambas. This was the result of geotechnical instability in the first quarter, which impacted mining rates and ore grades, as well as a planned major maintenance shutdown in April. We expect the volumes will again be a positive contributor in the second half as Las Bambas improves and Dugald contributes for a full six months. Despite the entire industry facing increasing costs, our cost performance was good during the half. Production expenses were $15 million higher, but this was largely as a result of increased maintenance costs at Las Bambas associated with a major planned shutdown. Offsetting the higher maintenance costs at Las Bambas were a series of initiatives, including a reduction in contractor headcount, reduced electricity costs as a result of a renegotiation of a contract, and initiatives to lower mining costs at both Rosebery and Kinsevere. There was also an $18.2 million reduction in corporate overhead costs in the half following last year's efficiency program, and we spent $2.8 million less on exploration. The other cost category mainly relates to one-off benefits, including a $12.6 million gain on the redemption of our convertible redeemable preference shares in January, and the non-recurrence of losses associated with the hedging contract in the first half of 2017. Now, slide 11 seeks to explain the profit ends up being attributable to MMG shareholders. As you will see, the starting point is $107.4 million, which corresponds to our 62.5% interest in Las Bambas. We then add the profit of $90 million from the other operations, which includes the two months from Dugald River. We then deduct exploration and corporate overheads of $37 million, and other items include FX gains and the gain on the convertible preference shares that I mentioned. Now, if you remember back to last year, our results, and particularly the results that flow through to MMG shareholders, was distorted by the large FX and copper hedging losses. It was close to $50 million. Finally, the last item is the non-LB financial expense of $78.4 million. This item is perhaps a bit misleading and counterintuitive. The reason why this amount is so high is that MMG borrowed all of its equity for the LB project from our major shareholder, CMC. So although in reality it's in relation to Las Bambas, it doesn't sit within the Las Bambas joint venture. Our JV partners probably have a similar cost in their own profit and loss, but should we have financed this amount using external equity, we would have seen a significant dilution in earnings per share. Now, slide 12 gives our shareholders and analysts an indicator of the sensitivity to both commodity prices and exchange rates. While the table highlights our earnings sensitivity, it also closely approximates our cash flow sensitivity given the limited cash taxes we are currently paying due to carry-forward tax losses and accelerated depreciation benefits. Copper, zinc, and the AUD/USD obviously have the biggest sensitivity, with a 10% change in the copper price leading to a $118 million impact on EBIT. A 10% change in the zinc price leading to a $35 million impact, and a 10% movement in the Australian dollar relative to the US dollar leading to a AUD 44 million impact. That will help you build in some of the fluctuations and volatility we are seeing in both commodities and exchange rates at the moment. Now, I think everyone will be aware that debt reduction has been a major focus for MMG. During the course of the year, we decreased or the course of the half year, I should say, we decreased our net debt by close to $643 million. Apart from reducing risk, the repayment of debt ahead of schedule and the renegotiation of the China Minmetals loan would lead to annualized interest savings of about $120 million a year based on the prevailing LIBOR rate. So we are reducing risk and increasing pre-tax profit. Another point to note from the slide is that after just having developed the largest copper and zinc mines globally over the past few years, our capital expenditure will start to decrease significantly. This year, we will spend about $400 million, largely on sustaining CapEx. The lower CapEx will obviously assist in improving our cash generation potential as we continue to strive to deliver shareholder value. Finally, our investors should be aware that we had a significant interest payment during the second half of 2018 that relates to our shareholder loan of $2.3 billion from CMC. Whilst we have been expensing the interest cost since 2014, that facility has allowed us to defer the interest charges or the cash payment of them. So we paid about $360 million of interest, or we will during the period, and that will be funded by surplus cash and some of the proceeds from the Sepon asset sale. Moving forward, this interest will be paid annually. Now, the next slide highlights our debt maturity profile. We have already prepaid more than our scheduled payments for 2018, and I think that you can see that despite some short-term commodity price weakness, with our strong asset base and the low-cost position of Las Bambas, we can comfortably meet our debt commitments in the near term. We have also been very fortunate to have the support of a major shareholder, which has enabled us to develop two world-class assets at favorable times in the cycle. We are confident that this support will continue, and it is a major benefit to our minority shareholders. We have also been able to renegotiate that loan with CMC at significantly reduced interest rates. Now on to business improvement. I think this slide is particularly important. If anything, the recent price weakness in copper and zinc has highlighted the need to place such a high priority on business improvement. We need to deliver returns in all commodity cycles. Over the past 5 years, MMG has continually reduced its C1 copper cost by maximizing production, carefully managing costs, and by obviously adding Las Bambas into the mix. Over the past 6 months, however, this cost has increased slightly due to lower production at Las Bambas, as well as higher cost of Kinsevere, which faces declining grades and higher stripping. Added to this is the significant impost of higher costs across the mining industry generally, which include labor, fuel, consumables, and equipment. This is why we've accelerated our business improvement efforts in 2018. Following the sale of four non-core assets over the past 18 months, we've needed to lower our overhead costs. This has resulted in a headcount reduction of about 60 roles from our group support and services functions. This, as well as other initiatives, will deliver an annualized cost saving of about $30 million from the group overhead costs. We've also just undertaken another review with the impending sale of Sepon, so that will reduce our overhead costs further. We have switched our focus at Las Bambas from the very successful ramp up towards optimization and ensuring that we have the best chance to deliver on our vast potential. To that end, we have a series of programs in place across Las Bambas that we will expect will deliver around $90 million in cost savings over 2017 and 2018. Some real examples of this have been a 35% reduction in contractor headcount, 25% reduction in electricity costs, as well as programs to reduce consumption in key consumables such as tires, explosives, fuel, grinding media, and reagents. At the other operations, our operating philosophy is based around maximizing asset utilization with initiatives focused on debottlenecking, equipment availability, and consumption rates. These efforts are particularly evident at Rosebery, which is an 82-year-old mine, and it's just set a new record for mill throughput in the first half and surpassed 1 million tons of throughput on a rolling 12-month basis for the first time. I think to get that performance out of an 82-year-old mine is a good testament to our team down there. As you know, mines get more costly as they get older due to lower grades, higher stripping, and longer hauls. Business improvement will continue to be an ongoing and major focus for the company. To our newest asset, Dugald River. As I mentioned earlier, it went into commercial production on the 1st of May. Our team has made remarkable progress to deliver this project ahead of schedule and below budget. As we have transitioned from a development project into ramp up, you can see that the key measurables, which are mill throughput and mining rates, are either exceeding or approaching their nameplate design capacity. Dugald River is going to deliver significant value to our shareholders over the next 25 years. From an MMG perspective, it provides important diversification away from our very large asset, Las Bambas, in a commodity that we believe enjoys a very favorable outlook. I think this next chart is particularly important as it highlights one of our strengths and a key competitive advantage of MMG, which is our recent project delivery capability. The thick red lines in both charts are the MMG projects, Las Bambas to the left and Dugald River on the right. Now, we've mentioned we've delivered the largest greenfield copper and zinc projects over the last few years. The progress of Dugald River ramp up, while still early, compares very favorably to Las Bambas, which has arguably been the most successful delivery of a new tier 1 copper asset globally over the past decade. We're very proud of our efforts at Las Bambas, and we are taking the learnings from this ramp up to optimize the commissioning at Dugald River. As everyone is aware by now, Las Bambas is the key asset in MMG's portfolio. Its ramp up has been remarkable and has now delivered its first two years of commercial production. Despite this success, it should be also noted that production over this time has benefited from early access to high-grade skarn ore. In the first half of 2018, we mined and processed lower ore grades as geotechnical conditions temporarily constrained mining. We also had a major maintenance shutdown, which meant that the plant was down completely for around six days and had production interrupted for around about four days on either side. These two factors resulted in a 15% decrease in metal production. Regardless, we still expect to produce between 410,000 and 430,000 tons of copper at Las Bambas in 2018 and meet guidance. However, production is likely to be much closer to 410,000 tons rather than the midpoint of that range. Despite lower production in 2018, we remain on track to meet our longer-term guidance that Las Bambas will deliver over 2 million tons of copper in its first five years of operations. Las Bambas is one of the lowest cost copper mines of this scale in the world, with C1 cost being around $1-$1.10 per pound. Due to production, as I mentioned previously, being slightly lower, we'll be at the top end of our cost guidance range. Las Bambas remains our most highly prospective growth opportunity. Through expanded exploration, plant debottlenecking, and development opportunities, we expected to accelerate the development of Las Bambas in the second half of 2018 and into 2019. Just to finish, one area of significant concern is the reform to the mining laws in the DRC and the potential impact on our Kinsevere operation. DRC is home to our Kinsevere mine and represents an attractive growth region to us, hosting some of the world's best copper and cobalt opportunities. As you'll see from this slide, we make a significant contribution to the DRC economy through royalties, taxes, wages, and procurement. Unfortunately, the recent changes to the DRC mining laws have sought to indiscriminately increase the revenue take from operations such as ours without respecting the legal stability protections contained in the previous mining code. The industry is not averse to working with the government on reforms to better share the benefits in the times of high commodity prices with both the government and other members of the community. However, in response to the government's proposals, the Mining Industry Alliance has offered a sliding scale royalty proposal, which would seek to increase the payments to the government. However, the reforms which we are seeing at the moment, which include higher taxes, royalties, state equity participation, and a super profits tax, were passed into law earlier this year and have the potential to render the DRC mining industry uneconomic. The DRC mining industry has come together to seek dialogue with the government, primarily seeking for the respect of the stability provisions in the previous code and also to discuss possible reform. However, discussions to date have been relatively fruitless. MMG has commenced discussions with the DRC government under the China-DRC bilateral investment treaty, and we issued a formal notice yesterday. We will continue to update our shareholders as these discussions progress. I will now hand you back to Jeffrey to close the briefing. Thanks. Thanks, Alistair. MMG is a world top 10 producer of copper. Of the pure play copper names, we are the fourth-largest and the largest copper miner in Asia. Dugald River also makes us a world top 10 zinc miner. On a consolidated basis, our C1 cost for copper is in the bottom of the global cost curve. The importance of this is highlighted during times of commodity price weakness like we have seen in recent weeks. We have built a business around world-class assets that can deliver returns through the commodity cycle. They are long life and will deliver significant value for our shareholders. On a copper equivalent basis, we have delivered consistent production growth every year over the past six years. Growth will continue in 2018 from Dugald River. We have a strong track record of delivering. Growth has been consistent and our low-cost position indicates that we have a strong asset base. MMG has a unique market perspective as an international operator with support from China largest resources company, China Minmetals, as major shareholder. Based on this insight, we are confident in the long-term fundamentals of copper and zinc. In short term, we have seen significant pressure on both copper and zinc prices. We believe the sell-off appears to be driven by sentiment around the potential impact of our trade war and also modest softening in Chinese demand. But despite this, we are still seeing solid demand for all of our products and expect prices to recover from here. We still see copper and zinc supply-demand gaps emerging in the coming years and expect the recovery in the U.S., European market, and Chinese consumption growth to underpin strong growth in global copper and zinc demand. China is also helping other countries to go through the One Belt, One Road initiative. This is a major economic strategy that connects more than 60 countries in seven global regions. Stretching from China to Europe with a major infrastructure focus. And we believe this will deliver strong demand for raw materials, and in particular, base metals. In summary, we are a top 10 miner of copper and zinc. We have benefited from China backed finance to deliver growth during the down cycle, and are now very well-placed to accelerate pay down of that debt and pursue future growth opportunities that deliver value for all shareholders. We believe we are in the right commodities and have world-class assets. We are extremely positive on the medium and the long-term outlook for copper and zinc, and we are well positioned to benefit from this. We have demonstrated project delivery and operational excellence on a sustained period of time, and operating philosophy is based around safety and driving continuous improvement. With that, I would like to open the floor up to questions. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Gao, and thank you, Mr. Carroll, for the presentations. Now the floor is open to questions. In addition to the audience in this room, we have over 20 people joining us through the dial-in systems. For those joining us through the dial-in system, if you want to raise a question, please push the star key and 1. H and 1 for questions. For those who require simultaneous interpretation, you can switch your headphone to channel one for English and channel two for Chinese. Now the floor is open to questions. Yes. Hi. Thank you very much. Chris Shu from Bosera Asset Management. Two questions. First one, could you give us some early guidance on 2019 CapEx? Also for the 2018 CapEx guidance of $400 million, how much of that belongs to the Dugald River CapEx, for the development? That is my first question. My second question is, regarding deleveraging. Does the management have any targets on what sort of absolute net debt level we are comfortable with? What is that sort of targets over the medium to longer term? Thank you very much. Thank you. Yep. Firstly, Chris, with the CapEx, we expect it to be around $400 million on an ongoing basis. It will flex probably from 350 up to 450. That will be the situation both for this year and following years. In this year where we have got a benefit against our previously released CapEx guidance is that we have spent less money at Dugald River. It is partially because the construction project has gone well, but also the commissioning revenue up to the 1st of May has been credited back against the capital account. The sort of spend at Dugald River, probably for the full year, is about $50 million. So it is quite low. That will be the first one. With the debt reduction, we do not really have a specific target. What we are focusing on is just paying back as much debt as we can, as quick as we can. The biggest impact on that is going to be commodity prices. As we showed you, a $0.10 movement in the copper price takes about $120 million of revenue away from us. So, obviously at $3.30, we are producing a lot more free cash. But we are just paying it down as quick as we can. Ultimately, we would like to get down to probably a 40% debt ratio, net debt to equity, where at the moment we are sitting at about 72%. So that will be another 2 or 3 years of solid debt repayments. Yeah. I would like to add that, we have some flexibility on gearing ratio because we got the strong support from our major shareholder. That really can give us some chance when we got good opportunity, and then that will strengthen our power to grab that, despite of the up and down in our gearing ratio. Okay, next questions. This is Helen Lau from Ark Invest. I have just one brief question. It is about the cash cost for Dugald River in the first half, and may I know what it is? As you keep your guidance unchanged, will there be a chance for you to see a chance to revise up the C1 cost guidance in view of rising treatment charges in the second half? Yeah. Firstly, thanks, Helen. With the Dugald C1, we have disclosed that cost already. I guess part of it being the first month, or first couple of months, you get some odd accounting treatments because all the inventory gets transferred in, then you effectively sell out of inventory. So your sales are actually greater than your production. So the cost is lower in this first half than what the $0.68 to $0.78 that we have given. That is a one-off. Into the second half, we would still expect to be within that range of the $0.68 to $0.78. The increase in treatment charges are not impacting on us too much because we have locked in some of the treatment charges with traders. So we do not see that having an impact over the second half. Yeah. Okay. Any questions from our dial-in systems? If you want to raise the questions, please press star and then 1. Yes. Hey, thanks. Jack Shao from Citi. Just a follow-up from Chris' question. It seems that in your first half, actually, you only spent about $100 million in CapEx. Yeah. If your full-year guidance is still $400 million, that implies actually you are going to spend much more Yeah in the second half. Given that Dugald River has a very good ramp up and progress on that, Yeah why is it second half loaded? Thanks. Yeah. I guess as I said, in the first half, we had all the revenue coming in from the pre-commercial operation sale. Our expenditure at Dugald was pretty negligible in the first half. We are still doing some minor punch list items and upgrading a few areas that I guess became evident after we got into initial production. Then the other thing is we have bought some extra fleet at Las Bambas. So fleet there. We have started also putting in a third ball mill. Also the activity on the tailings dam lifts is continuing. So what has impacted on us in the first half more so is all this extra commissioning revenue. If you remember back then, zinc price was $1.50. So we got more production earlier. Then we got obviously a greater price benefit. Yeah. Yes, sir. Yan Chen from CICC. A couple of questions here. The first one is related to Las Bambas. I see that the full-year C1 cost guidance remains at $1-$1.10. In the first half, it was $1.19. So that means that in the second half, we are going to cut it to $0.90-$1. Right? Am I correct? How is the schedule so far looking like? How is the production ramp up so far from the first half? Yeah. No, your maths is correct. The second half would be similar production rates to what we saw last year. Last year, the production cost come just in under a dollar. Now, obviously, the $1.19 for the first half was impacted by the fact that our production was 15% lower than what it was for the corresponding period the year before. So, yeah. But I guess, for the full year, we are going to be right at the top of that $1-$1.10 guidance. That is based on producing in excess of 410,000 tons. Now at this stage, all our internal planning is indicating we will still hit that 410,000 tons. Certainly in July and August, they are still indicating that we will do that. But obviously, when you have got a big mine like this and you have got ore grade variability, you can never be certain. Our internal planning is still showing over 410,000 tons. One more question for the tax. The effective tax rate in the first half was 42%, and the guidance for the full year was 40%. A big part of it is because of the deferred tax payment related to the sale of Golden Grove and Century. Could you remind us again about how much more deferred tax is related to that, and when can we see the effective tax rate going down to sort of like a 30%? That's a good question, actually. The reason why our tax is so high is that the base tax rate in Peru is 33%, and then it's an extremely heavy additional tax with withholding tax and VAT. If you go, why are we 42 instead of 33? One of the reasons is we have withholding tax on our finance of 15%. That goes out. We also have additional, or our corporate costs that we can't charge to the operation end up here in Hong Kong. At the moment, we don't have any Hong Kong income to offset it. So that's the sort of the two primary reasons why the tax rate is higher. The one-off sort of negative, I shouldn't say one-off, but those two items are pretty much fixed. In the second half, we expect to make more profit because we're producing more from Las Bambas. Relatively speaking, the influence of those two items decreases relative to the other operating income. So that's why we'd expect the income tax rate to be lower in the second half. There's no lingering effects of Golden Grove and Century. Next year and beyond, unfortunately, because of these fixed variances, we'll still be in the 40% range. I think you would have read with all the press, it's getting harder for international companies to reduce their tax rates, not easier. One of the big challenges we face is sort of an increased tax grab from both the Peruvian government and the DRC government. It's not getting any easier in Australia either, where we produce there. Okay. Oh, one more question. Ross, I have a follow-up question on the Kinsevere. Basically, the C1 cost in the first half increased, but your EBITDA margin also substantially increased. I might know what is the reason and if it will be sustainable going forward. Thank you. Yeah. I should just mention with the costs for Kinsevere in the first half, they include some of the impact of the mining code change, but they do not include the super profits tax, which is the most material item. There are two reasons for that. One is we cannot calculate it yet, and two is obviously we are going to fight it to the best of our ability. That has been the major reason why those costs have increased, because we have had to assume extra royalty, a few extra sort of secondary taxes as well. The reason why EBITDA margins increased so much at Kinsevere is just we had, obviously, a lot higher copper price. So it is around 20% higher than what it was in the corresponding period last year. So I think in short, the increased EBITDA for Kinsevere is due to the increased price. Okay. Any questions from the back bench? So far all the questions are coming from the first row. Any questions from the media? Yes. Hi. Thank you. Lawrence Lau from BOCI. Thank you, Ross. Just a question on DRC situation. It seems that we have been talking to the government for quite some time and not making really much progress. If the situation stay where it is now, do we need to do anything to account in the full year report? Thank you. Yeah, no, that's a good question. Unfortunately, these discussions have been going on since February, and I think, as I said when I was talking through the presentation, the discussions haven't been very fruitful. Now what we have done is we issued a formal notice last night, and this is through the China-DRC bilateral investment treaty. That gives us 6 months for negotiation. If the negotiation fails, then we would look at formally starting arbitration proceedings. But, the problem is, in the DRC, and this is being honest with you, we've got a dictator that's been in power longer than his constitutional right and it's not an easy negotiation situation. That's just the reality of it. But we think Glencore and Randgold will go into arbitration sometime this week, and then it'll be a matter of working through the progress. Now we can absorb everything except the super profits tax. The super profits tax is we still can't quantify it. Now it could have a major impact or it could be a relatively minor impact, but it's got the potential to be major. So until we can get some clarity around how that's calculated, we can't really provide for it. Our overriding argument is that we've got 10 years of stability, so it's not going to be able to be levied for the next 10 years anyway. But again, to be honest with you, if we win that legal battle, we still got how do we enforce it? So it is quite a rocky situation in the DRC. Yeah. Anyway, even we are facing a lot of uncertainties in this country, but DRC is still the important of our focus area because, we are still looking for further growth opportunity and particularly in copper, that is a very important country. So we will keep monitoring the situation and to evaluate the situation and to seek whether we will have further plan to develop in that country. Thank you. Once again, for those who join us through the dial-in systems, if you want to raise the questions, you can press star and then 1. Any other questions? If there's no further questions for the time being, does Geoffrey or Ross have anything to add or to sum up our discussions? No, I think I'd just like to thank you all for attending and showing the interest. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. Thanks very much for joining us today.